Forum:Notes 41 (Revenge Value)

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Forums: Index > Ansem's Computer > Notes 41 (Revenge Value)

Revenge Value is a fan-made name usually given to a series of mechanics in place for bosses in Kingdom Hearts II and Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, whose purpose is to prevent the possibility to combo-stunlock bosses to death.

General idea[edit]

The combo system in Kingdom Hearts II and Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix is designed such that, after every hit, all bosses, with some exceptions (mainly big-sized bosses and hooded Riku) remain staggered for a short period of time, allowing the player to keep up with the combo until the last finisher is performed. After that, a cool-down period happens for Sora before he can start a new set of attacks. Bosses have their own AI, according to which the game selects an action for them to perform when they are not staggered. This is often referred as Normal Revenge. An implication of the combo system is that a boss cannot execute a Normal Revenge when staggered and, often, even the cool-down time after a combo is not enough for them to perform an action. For these reasons, the developers assigned to every action executable by Sora a hidden non-negative value. On their side, the bosses have an invisible gauge with a certain capacity (which may change in different phases of the battle), which is filled by the values of Sora's actions. When the gauge current value reaches or exceeds the maximum value, the boss can and will (unless some special circumstances happen) choose an action between a predefined set (usually composed by only 1 action) and performs it against the party even if it's still staggered/flinching. This is commonly referred as Forced Revenge or "a boss breaking out from a combo".

Naming ambiguity[edit]

Being a fan-made name, there is often ambiguity on the use of the expression "Revenge Value". In different contexts it is used to indicate

The whole Revenge Value mechanics.
The generic process of raising a boss' invisible gauge current value (i.e., "this action adds revenge value").
How much a single ability raises a boss' invisible gauge current value (i.e., "Explosion has a revenge value of 6").
The boss' invisible gauge. (i.e., "Xigbar's revenge value").
The boss' invisible gauge current value (i.e., "his revenge value is now 5.5").
The boss' invisible gauge maximum value (i.e., "Lingering Will's revenge value is 25").

The right interpretation depends on the meaning of the phrase the expression appears in.

Executable actions revenge value[edit]

Almost every action performed by Sora which hits a boss has a specific revenge value, but there are special cases of abilities which do not add revenge value or special circumstances when a certain ability does not add revenge value.

Roxas and normal Sora's form[edit]

Normal Sora's default ground combo opening (informally called slash) adds 1 despite being an horizontal or vertical slash.
Normal Sora's default ground combo follow-up (informally called thrust) adds 1 despite potentially hitting the enemies twice (only the first hit counts).
Normal Sora's Slapshot, Counterguard and Round Break / Vicinity Break add 1.
Normal Sora's Slide Dash, Flash Step and Dodge Slash add 1, but only if the last small hit of any of them connects.
Normal Sora's Upper Slash adds 3.
Normal Sora's default ground combo finisher (both the rotating horizontal slash and the rotating vertical slash) adds 3.
Normal Sora's Guard Break and Finishing Leap add 3.
Normal Sora's Explosion adds 6.
Normal Sora's default aerial upper slash and aerial down slash add 1.5.
Normal Sora's Horizontal Slash adds 1.5, but only if the last part connects.
Normal Sora's Retaliating Slash adds 3 (all with the first hit).
Normal Sora's default aerial finisher (both the rotating horizontal slash and the rotating vertical slash) adds 3.5.
Normal Sora's Firaga adds 1, but only if the last part of the flames connect.
Normal Sora's Firaga finisher adds 3, but only if the last part of the flames connect.
Normal Sora's Blizzaga adds 2.
Normal Sora's Blizzaga finisher adds 4.
Normal Sora's Thundaga adds 4.
Normal Sora's Thundaga finisher adds 4.
Normal Sora's Magnega adds 4.5
Normal Sora's Reflega adds 4 upon explosion.
Normal Sora's Reflega finisher adds 4 upon explosion.
All the Drive Form explosions do not add revenge value.
Guarding an attack with Guard does not add revenge value.
All the growth abilities do not add revenge value when used.

Valor Form[edit]

Wisdom Form[edit]

Limit Form[edit]

Master Form[edit]

Anti Form[edit]

Final Form[edit]

Chicken Little[edit]

Genie[edit]

Stitch[edit]

Peter Pan[edit]

Bosses' revenge value[edit]

Forced revenge[edit]

Preventing forced revenge[edit]

Party members[edit]

In other games[edit]