Forum:We need a Walkthrough space, yah?: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}} | {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}} | ||
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1)Choose a game we want to write a walkthrough for (I'd start with ''Birth by Sleep'' and write the guides in chronological order). We could even divide the walkthroughs amongst the Wiki's users (Users A-E handle ''BBS'', Users F-S handle ''KH2'', Users S-Z handle ''Days'', something like that)<br> | 1)Choose a game we want to write a walkthrough for (I'd start with ''Birth by Sleep'' and write the guides in chronological order). We could even divide the walkthroughs amongst the Wiki's users (Users A-E handle ''BBS'', Users F-S handle ''KH2'', Users S-Z handle ''Days'', something like that)<br> | ||
2)Assemble a team to put together each portion of the guide (Example: User X puts in statistic tables, User Y writes boss strategies, and User Z makes the walkthrough "look pretty" with coding mastery and a few well-placed images). As I said above, we can assign this to multiple users for multiple guides. | 2)Assemble a team to put together each portion of the guide (Example: User X puts in statistic tables, User Y writes boss strategies, and User Z makes the walkthrough "look pretty" with coding mastery and a few well-placed images). As I said above, we can assign this to multiple users for multiple guides.<br> | ||
3) Upon a walkthrough's ROUGH DRAFT completion, we have a staffer or other regular proofread and fix any grammatical errors and make sure everything listed is accurate to the games. | 3) Upon a walkthrough's ROUGH DRAFT completion, we have a staffer or other regular proofread and fix any grammatical errors and make sure everything listed is accurate to the games. | ||
I know that handling this Walkthrough space like FFWiki does may be chaos at first, but we could always disband it temporarily and make revisions later... I just don't want to make the walkthroughs exactly like what mainspace is: Listing strategies and listing treasure locations where users argue and edit war daily. Then again, if the other staffers and I meet (I'd love to be in charge of this whole escapade) via IRC, we can discuss setting up an actual policy for this "group effort" idea...}} | I know that handling this Walkthrough space like FFWiki does may be chaos at first, but we could always disband it temporarily and make revisions later... I just don't want to make the walkthroughs exactly like what mainspace is: Listing strategies and listing treasure locations where users argue and edit war daily. Then again, if the other staffers and I meet (I'd love to be in charge of this whole escapade since I love writing walkthroughs and am well-experienced in doing so) via IRC, we can discuss setting up an actual policy for this "group effort" idea...}} | ||
{{AlVan|time19:17, 14 April 2011 (EDT)|text=That's what I meant too. We can't pile everything into one place. That would change the entire wiki.}} | |||
{{Asif|shonormal=I'm not a very good writer, but I happen to be an ''excellent'' re-writer, so I'll try to help out with the revising of the walkthroughs. I'll check for grammar/spelling mistakes, rewrite anything that sounds confusing, etc., if that's okay.}} | |||
{{KrytenKoro|The main problem with having individual walkthroughs is that everyone loses steam, and everyone makes errors. If we were just going to link the walkthroughs that are up already...well, that's not too different than what we're doing now, and then why are none of them done yet? Let's be honest - if we treat this as "an index of completed user walkthroughs", it will remain empty, forever. | |||
And then, like Asif said, some editors are much better at proofreading then at rough writing. | |||
As for making other parts of the wiki redundant - well, in a lot of cases, the way we're handling it now doesn't work. For example, the coverage of treasure chests in each world is not only woefully incomplete, but pretty messy and non-uniform. Furthermore, it ends up clogging up the world pages; moving these sections off to high-quality walkthroughs could ease that. | |||
Furthermore, a lot of the boss articles are already having to deal with redundancy, via the Coliseum strategy pages. Then we have all the mini-game articles, which are generally a mess because no one remembers they are there. | |||
The main reason the walkthroughs need to get deleted is that, to a one, they are all aborted efforts. There is a lot of good tangents and ideas, but no one has been able to finish up a single walkthrough. As they are now, they're really just clutter. There's also the fact that the userspace is still meant to be used towards completing the mainspaces.}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|samurai='''I'm all for the idea. HOWEVER, I agree more with the "official, one walkthrough per game" idea. If the entire community focuses in on a walkthrough (like we did with TNE's), we could really polish it up to accompany the mainspace articles. AND THEN, on the bottom, we could have a list of user sub page walkthroughs. I also agree with the Youtube idea. I am absolutly terrible at video games, so I woulod just be a rewriter (like Asif) or something else...'''}} | |||
{{Asif|sho=One question: when we make the walkthrough for 358/2 Days, how will we integrate it with the already made Mission articles? | |||
Also, am I the only one getting a Wakka vibe from the forum's name?}} | |||
{{17m|text= I'm late, aren't I...? | |||
Anyways I fully agree with the idea, and I admit what Kryten said is right, my Days walkthrough's progress stopped because I actually stopped playing the game. <small> seriously doing the same thing over and over in a world or another is too damn boring </small> | |||
If we're going to make an ''official walkthrough from KHWiki'' then I'll help with the project. Heck, you can even use the infos I have on my Days walkthrough.}} | |||
{{Uxie|time=11:22, 15 April 2011 (EDT)|luna={{Uxie-TT|Tutoriales en mi sangre!|Walkthroughs are in my blood!}} I also love tips and gags! I'll be happy to help with the walkthroughs for KHII and BbS! | |||
However, I'm still going to use my Legado for the T&G, since I don't want to upset Kryten.}} | |||
{{EO|time=14:44, 15 April 2011 (EDT)|talktext=I see sense in your words, Kryten. I just think that everyone contributing to a walkthrough would just be utter chaos in the end. I personally don't want to deal with "You completely changed MY strategy! How dare you!?", so that's why I brought up the whole "individual guides" thing. | |||
I actually plan to write a ''Birth by Sleep'' guide, considering the official one is basically garbage and a waste of trees, which we can use as a model.}} | |||
{{KrytenKoro|Oh, no no no no. I'm not at all suggesting that the guide say something like "This is the only way to do this, this is the correct way." There can totally be something like: | |||
;Xemnas IV | |||
*Attacks | |||
*Strategies | |||
**DTN's strategy | |||
**ENX's strategy | |||
**Inexistent's strategy | |||
**KrytenKoro's strategy | |||
The gist of a unified guide is, instead, that we have clear organization (so that the reader quickly knows how to use each guide), the best aesthetics the mass of us can think of, and enough copyeditors and discussion to produce fact-checked work with no typographical errors. | |||
For example, what if someone had good strategies for all but one boss, and that's the one where they said "Just go out and train until you're level 100"? Well, that would make that strategy bad, but there's no reason to shelve their guide just because they had one stumbling block. A conglomerate guide would instead allow us to cover any mistakes or weaknesses the other's have, and vice versa.}} | |||
{{AlVan|time15:19, 15 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Maybe we should take both idea's into account. Perhaps two separate walkthrough indexes (Wiki and Individual). It's a comprimise we can all settle on, isn't it? However, we shouldn't put any incomplete walktrough pages on either index.}} | |||
[http://www.khwiki.net/index.php?title=Forum%3AWe_need_a_Walkthrough_space%2C_yah%3F&action=historysubmit&diff=485170&oldid=485169 This should be an ample response to your questions.] {{The Inexistentsig}} 16:17, 15 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
{{EO|time=16:22, 15 April 2011 (EDT)|text=If we can get polls working, we can handle choosing how we do walkthroughs that way. Anyways, I started a BBS guide I have the intent of finishing. I only have the main page of it done, but here is a model using what I consider to be proper formatting if we do things individually: | |||
[http://www.khwiki.net/User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Kingdom_Hearts_Birth_by_Sleep_Walkthrough Click Me!] | |||
The main page of an individual guide should have the following: | |||
*Introduction states what game(s) the walkthrough covers. | |||
*Table of Contents with non-confusing section titles. | |||
*Optional "About the Author" | |||
*Optional "Story Summary" (NOTE ALL STORY SUMMARIES MUST BE '''SPOILER-FREE''') | |||
*Optional Disclaimer stating that you are not be held responsible of a strategy of yours doesn't work. | |||
*Sources section listing where you obtain extra information from. You do NOT count as a source; it's obvious you're one considering you wrote the guide. | |||
I'll be working on my BBS guide for as long as it takes to finish it. Here's hoping I don't give up!}} | |||
{{SC|time=17:08, 15 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Dammit, get one damn computer virus and you miss out on everything. | |||
I'm for the officical wiki walkthroughs. I read about until ENX talked about how we assign users to tasks (after that I wall all "tl;dr"), and I'm a good "look pretty-er-person-ology". If we don't do that, well, I'll proofread them anyway. | |||
So yeah, Crono approves.}} | |||
:I don't see a problem with spoilerific story summaries as long as [[:Template:Spoiler|the appropriate markers]] are used to notate this. I approve of the idea, by the way. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 21:35, 15 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
{{AlVan|time20:36, 17 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Should we start making the walkthroughs now because no one has said no yet.}} | |||
'''No.''' {{The Inexistentsig}} 20:53, 17 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
Well...................................................................ok. I could do either writing boss strategies or proofreading, though I'd prefer the former. {{User:CaelumLucisCaliga/Sig}} 21:56, 17 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
{{UnknownChaser|time=Time is base on the reality of our fantasy.|Noctis=I hope I'm not too late, but based on quick reading on everything everyone else had said, I good for it. But ENX shouldn't we have people working on walkthrough based on their main area of expertise and not by user name? I'm more knowledgeable in BBS (I been playing the game for a year: the original Japanese version, the English version and now the Final Mix version) rather then Days.}} | |||
{{EO|time=22:10, 17 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Okay, I'm currently with my aunt, hence the inactivity in terms of my BBS guide I was ranting about, and I'm battling a computer virus on my main home computer, but here's what I have to say about this forum's latest developments: | |||
@DTN - The problem with "spoilerific" walkthroughs, even with spoiler tags (again, this would just be making Wiki-walkthroughs redundancies to the Wiki's contents itself), is that you read them when you're just starting the game, and you're like "Aaw, crap! The entire story was just ruined! What's the point in playing now?" It'd be the same thing as putting the last page of a book first. We may as well say "TERRA BECOMES XEHANORT" after every other word >_> Anyways, I'm glad you approve<br> | |||
@A1Van - What The Inexistent said.<br> | |||
@SilverCrono - Glad to have your support.<br> | |||
@UnknownChaser - I merely suggested that method to make a point and better explain what I was thinking. As far as I know, that is not how we will do things.<br> | |||
Once my aunt leaves tomorrow afternoon, I'll resume work on my personal guide. Hopefully I can get that virus fixed up (treating it requires completely re-installing Windows, re-establishing internet connection, and all that tedious trash), and then I'll be incrasing my activity even further thanks to being able to use my main computer again. Then again, I have a reasearch paper to write (during this wonderful spring break of mine, no less), so I'm not certain how much of what I just said will hold true...}} | |||
{{DTN|time=23:48, 17 April 2011 (EDT)|text=I fail to comprehend that as justification. | |||
''(again, this would just be making Wiki-walkthroughs redundancies to the Wiki's contents itself)'' | |||
::It is inevitable that writing a walkthrough will contain a degree of storyline in it. Even by just indicating what enemies you fight and worlds you fight in the during the final chapters of games can be interpreted as central parts of the story. Also, a walkthrough is going to be redundant to the wiki as a whole--the point is to bring multiple pieces of information together. For example, details in a walkthrough include boss strategies, locations of treasures chests, and navigation. These are all located on separate articles on the wiki for their respective individual topics. | |||
''is that you read them when you're just starting the game, and you're like "Aaw, crap! The entire story was just ruined! What's the point in playing now?" It'd be the same thing as putting the last page of a book first. We may as well say "TERRA BECOMES XEHANORT" after every other word >_>'' | |||
::...No, I'm fairly certain that I would write "Welcome to the KHBBS walkthrough by DoorToNothing. This is the game where Aqua gets trapped in the Realm of Darkness, Ventus has his heart separated from him and is locked in the Chamber of Awakening, and Terra separates into the Lingering Will and Terra-Xehanort, the latter of which becomes Xehanort after losing its memories. Now, let's move on to basic controls." Assuming that the reader has the basic intelligence to (1) read the walkthrough in chronological order and (2) realize they are at a risk for spoilers if they choose to read further than they are in the game, there should be no problem with including spoilers, or even ''basic story summaries'' to at the very least explain events to the players. To exclude spoilers as a whole is like saying that you are not writing a walkthrough, but rather how to play the game, regardless of its story. You no longer are writing about a game, but rather about its gameplay, which certainly does ''not'' make up the entire game. | |||
To all involved in discussion: it is extremely vital to keep in mind how much we are limited or restricting in a walkthrough. A walkthrough is an example of personal writing, and such needs to be decided to be written professionally or casually. Professionally seems to be in the vein of what KrytenKoro mentions of having "official wiki walkthroughs," though I don't see why other walkthroughs for the game cannot exist as well. It seems more to me that several of the restrictions and limitations defined here are better handled by the author of the walkthrough, their decision mostly dependent on what style they hope to achieve. | |||
Also I have rocket-powered fists.}} | |||
{{AlVan|time11:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)|text=It's been a week since we last discussed this. Do we have our final decision yet?}} | |||
{{Chitalian8|time=16:03, 26 April 2011 (EDT)|text= The fate of the Walkthroughspace will be decided at the upcoming [[KHWiki:Roundtable|Roundtable]], our monthly IRC meeting.}} | |||
{{AlVan|time10:55, 1 May 2011 (EDT)|text=I guess that means I have no say in this...}} | |||
{{Asif|sho=Well, you will have a say in it if you come to the meeting, but if not...}} | |||
{{SilverCrono|time=10:59, 1 May 2011 (EDT)|text=This isn't Ancient Greece (was it Rome? >>), and this isn't an oligarchy. You come to the meeting, you talk, you get involved. Nobody is excluded as long as they try to be included. | |||
So yeah, come to the meeting and get your opinion considered.}} | |||
But if he can't get on the IRC... {{The Inexistentsig}} 14:03, 1 May 2011 (EDT) |
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This should be an ample response to your questions. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 16:17, 15 April 2011 (EDT)
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- I don't see a problem with spoilerific story summaries as long as the appropriate markers are used to notate this. I approve of the idea, by the way. --DTN 21:35, 15 April 2011 (EDT)
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No. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 20:53, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
Well...................................................................ok. I could do either writing boss strategies or proofreading, though I'd prefer the former. Life is 90% mental. The other half is physical 21:56, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
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But if he can't get on the IRC... KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 14:03, 1 May 2011 (EDT)