Forum:Restoration of my Rights

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Restoration of my Rights

Eternal Nothingness XIII Run! Run away! — 22:02, 6 February 2015 (UTC) So according to the staff policy, forcibly retired staff/staff who go on extended leaves of absence must be active consistently for a two-month period before their rights will be restored to them. I also recall reading at one point that a request need only be made for an administrator to be re-elected; I asked that we would discuss my return to adminship on today's Roundtable, where it was decided that it should be finalized/discussed on this forum, purely for the sake of archiving material and sourcing. I have met the requirements stated in the staff policy, and while I may not be able to edit every single day because I have returned to college, I plan to edit as often as I can, as often and as much as possible. I aim to do a better job welcoming new users and attending Roundtables when I can; these were also issues people seemed to have when I was last a part of the Wiki's staff. Before I humbly ask this Wiki to give me a second chance, I just wanted to say a few things: This past May, I was diagnosed with OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). This is chiefly an anxiety disorder, leaving the juicy details of my symptoms out, so that is why it may seem at times like I overreact to a situation on the Wiki in conversation with another editor or when fixing up articles. When people try to correct me, I view this (I can't help it, and it's not in my control) as a personal attack against me, hence my tendency to rudely lash out at others. OCD/anxiety is why I overreact to people in general and stand so firmly by my own opinions. My brain cannot handle things that most people can and does not take stress or criticism well. I tend to jump to conclusions, and to those I have hurt over the past few years that I have spent on the Wiki for one reason or another, now that you know the root cause of the problems between us, I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me. I have long sought to "begin again" on this Wiki and patch things up between myself and the users with whom I have had issues with. Looking back on things, I can see why some would find my behavior/reactions to things unjust and uncalled-for. I am truly sorry for any unprofessionalism, etc. that I have displayed in the past. I feel like I have created a rather negative reputation for myself amongst this site's community, and I would really like to change that. I would like to start fresh, with this hopeful re-election, and just say that I am sorry. I'm not trying to start a sob-story or pity party. I just genuinely have wanted to share my thoughts/feelings with this Wiki's community for a long time, and I see now as a perfect opportunity. This is a second chance for me to prove myself as an editor, an administrator, and most importantly, a friend, if you will just give me the chance. Here's to a new beginning, to the new me. Thank you to everyone for considering me again for adminship, as well as for giving me a place where I can share information about one of my most beloved video game series, the Kingdom Hearts Wiki. Whether people agree to give me this second chance or not, rest assured that I will forever remain a faithful, committed editor! And with that, I enter my corridor of darkness and leave this forum to the community.

KrytenKoro - Most bears were content to live their lives, mauling and eating one, maybe two humans at most. "Mass-murder," as the bears always said, "is for the sharks." But not Barry. Barry was different. He knew that one day, he would kill ALL of the humans. This is the inspiring, tear-jerking story of one bear and the dream he dared to dream. TALK - As I've said many times, I'm of the opinion that anyone who's not abusing mod rights should have them -- if we have somebody flouting the community by blocking editors or deleting articles, they should lose the rights. Otherwise...I really don't see the benefit in not giving mod rights to every non-probationary editor. Basically, once we've confirmed they're not a vandal, they should at least have admin rights. EDIT: To clarify, while ENX may have had friction with other editors in the past over conduct or content concerns, I am not aware of any misuse of the administrator tools, and fervently support his re-opping.

Eternal Nothingness XIII ...Kingdom Hearts. When Kingdom Hearts is ours, we can exist fully and completely. — 02:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC) Thank you, Kryten. Those issues I have had in regards to "conduct or content concerns" are exactly what I hope this community will allow me to call "water under the bridge" as I have my new beginning.

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 23:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC) I'm not sure why this is made so complicated for ENX. We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story.

Eternal Nothingness XIII My show now, Keyblade master. Who am I? Oh, my name's Axel. Got it memorized? — 12:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC) My thoughts exactly, Shard. I don't mean to sound eager, but could we please settle this already?

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 16:18, 9 February 2015 (UTC)   I really wish you didn't sound so eager, because my first instinct tends to be, if someone is trying really hard to get admin rights, they're probably not someone who should have them... Look, as far as qualifications go, I don't have any problems. You've been a good editor here for easily as long as I have, periods of inactivity aside, and you know the ins and outs of this place. I don't even really have a problem with the fact that you argue with other editors and staff. God knows we need healthy debate and all that. If I have a problem, it's that you are incredibly rigid and seem to take things really personally. I suspect that that's a big factor behind the attitude you've had towards certain staff members in the past. (I have the impression I very likely exacerbated things at some point due to general frustration, so, sorry for that.) I'm glad you say you want to put all this behind you—and I sincerely hope that you will—but as of right now I don't know if that's not just lip service. I don't think we've seen any change in attitude yet. You seemed to have seriously strong feelings against said staff, and I don't think that kind of thing goes away so easily. On the other hand, I don't think I can really give a good argument not to give you admin rights again. I can't imagine you abusing them to any degree, and if there isn't some degree of trust, there won't be much chance of moving forward. And it's not like having admin rights or not really changes how one approaches an argument, either. So, yeah, if the general consensus is that you should have admin rights again, I'm alright with it. I just ask that you try to be a bit more open-minded on issues—the rest of us should, too—and that you talk out your problems with any given editor or staff with them, instead of going to the IRC to sling mud, which is really not cool.

Say, if you do get these powers, what would you use them for? — 16:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC) RikutheBloody

Eternal Nothingness XIII The Keyblade...a truly marvelous weapon. Were it only in more...capable hands... — 19:11, 9 February 2015 (UTC) All this fluff aside, I quote ShardofTruth: "...why [is] this [being] made so complicated for ENX[?] We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story." I am not "being so desperate to get admin rights." I agree that a regular who decides being an admin would be cool, thus starts begging for the rights, should not have them. But that is not the case with me. I am merely stating that I have done as the policy stated, and I was asked on the IRC to make this forum. That is all. The only reason I have argued with people in the past is simply because we disagree. About a lot of things. Personalities clash. Sometimes it cannot be helped. In terms of "sounding eager," this is not about trying to do everything in my power to ensure my rights' return. Not at all. It's just that this forum is unnecessary in the first place, given the policy and the requirements I've met, and when the forum died, knowing how this community feels about me, I just knew the that we would pretend it didn't exist and let it gather dust. Because this concerns me, I have a right to want to know what's going on. I honestly think, based on how everyone in this community treats me (people often seem to fail to see their own faults against me, it seems, hence our conflicts; everyone here is so self-righteous in one way or another, myself included), if I were anyone other than myself, then I would have had my rights back, having met the policy's requirements, by the time the roundtable ended, instead of having to go through this forum nonsense. I fail to see how this is anything other than singling out a person, targeting said individual because he is disliked overall for one reason or another, and going out of one's way to unnecessarily make his life more difficult. It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually encourages my inactivity. In fact, if I recall correctly, I was never even warned, as per the policy, when my rights were about to be taken away. I just logged in here at one point to find I was no longer an administrator... I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor can a person completely change to please a community that is generally against him for whatever reason in one. That being said, I do not have animosity towards ANYONE on this Wiki. Sure, there are people I may not enjoy talking to simply because of how our conversations have faired in the past, but I have made every effort (personal messages, et cetera) to try to amend things with these people one-on-one, and all I get is the cold shoulder. I cannot show any change when people refuse to give me the chance, let alone actually look for said change. To understand my "problem," Neumannz, I encourage you to do some research on OCD. I do not expect you to care about me, my life, or anything of that nature. But understand that because of STUPID GENETICS, something I have no control over, I have never been good in social situations, and I guess that means the Wiki. I do take things personally and am easy to anger, but that is not my fault, as much as I try to keep things under control. What this community needs to understand is I try my best every day to "keep cool," et cetera. It is HOW someone approaches me with an issue that determines my response. For instance, someone saying "I don't think the image should go there...let me kindly help you understand why," is a LOT different than what everyone here keeps giving me, the typical "I'm right because I am, and you're wrong because A, B, C. Have a nice day, not that I care if you do or not." So you ask me to act in a way that I do not have the ability to based on OTHER PEOPLE's behavior, not just my own. Ask anyone on this Wiki I have ever been foolish enough to call a "friend" in the past: Xion4ever, Troisnyxetienne, NinjaSheik...these three in particular are the Wikians I find myself closest to, the ones who see the "real me" people like you and Kryten do not often get to witness simply by your own choosing. They know how to interact with me. They know how to have a civil conversation with me, even if it concerns a Wiki issue. My "lip service" (which was not, I assure you) was purely a request from my heart of hearts to the people here to just "grin and bear it." I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual. To hold all that against me, all those factors I had no say in, is just not fair. It is cruel. I am only asking that if we are to put our differences aside, that this Wiki's community take the extra effort to understand what I am going through, to see a side they did not know of before, and perhaps have some questions as to why I have behaved the way I have in the past answered. Of course I would not abuse my "powers." I never did before, so why would I now? To answer RTB's question, I would "use these powers" the way any admin should: to delete what needs to be deleted, move what needs to be moved, and protect the Wiki when it needs protecting. I can't tell you how many times I've been the only one online, been going through the recent changes, and seen a ton of poorly-made edits in need of rollback, thus I've been unable to do it. Or how many images that have been in need of deletion, but I have been unable to assist in any way. This Wiki did an excellent job of making me feel like I wasn't wanted, respected, et cetera. I constantly felt antagonized, like I was an administrator upon the formation of SEIWA simply to fill a slot. My opinions had no more merit, nor should they, but it was obvious who wanted to side with who, and for the most crazy reasons. That rant aside, I do want to put the past behind us and move forward. But I should not have to be on my knees begging for something that was stripped from me when I clearly met the requirements to get it back. The Wiki's several invisible loopholes to our policies really astound me...

This isn't my final or "real post," I'm just posting on here as a placeholder saying you'll see my comments later today. I'm in classes until tonight. Xion4ever 20:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. — TheFifteenthMember 20:32, 9 February 2015 (UTC) I'm still forming my opinion and am somewhat conflicted, but let me just point out a few facts for now. Take them what you will: You were actually warned of your potential demotion three months beforehand. One can revert edits without rollback, unless I'm mistaken? The staff policy is incredibly new and hasn't been put into effect yet. It's never been tried before and we always said it's not set in stone, so don't take it as a personal critique. It's just something we haven't done before. But yes, we probably should stick to it by this point. </last point wasn't a fact>

KrytenKoro - "Hey, I want to settle down. And as soon as I find the right small group of girls, the seven or eight women who are right for me, my wandering days are over, buddy." TALK - Clarifying: I believe any editor who we can trust to not flippantly abuse the admin tools should have them. That should be considered separately from other transgressions, such as personal attacks or unwillingness to work with consensus, which would instead lead to blocks or bans (as I myself have recieved in the past), rather than demotion -- that behavior should only affect admin rights if the user is going to use them to evade the block by unblocking themselves. The only non-tool risk with admins that I know of, of promoting someone who decides to focus more on making their friends happy than maintaining any sort of quality to the wiki, is definitely absent here -- whether or not I agree with ENX on each issue, he's definitely editing based on his own convictions, rather than throwing his hands in the air and claiming that inaccurate trash edits should be kept simply because we don't want to "scare away" the offending editor. (This is a sidenote, I guess, it just...I've had to abandon wikis where I was even the bcrat before because I mistakenly promoted people who cared more about making friends than ensuring any kind of quality. Those kind of editors infuriate me.) We're a small community, and we police the obvious vandals very efficiently. Frankly, it's more efficient to just give editors the ability to deal with problems as they come up, rather than having to wait for an admin to be available. If it helps, we can rename "admin" to "janitor", maybe. I'm putting forward a suggestion that all the active, non-frivolous editors get an admin position. I'm not sure what I did to start getting yelled at here, but I guess my question is, ignoring any other complaints being brought up: Does anyone have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the admin/janitor tools?

How about a vote? Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 23:09, 9 February 2015 (UTC)   As I said before, I do not have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the tools.

Being a staff member means more than just having a new black Keyblade image on your userpage and a new title. It is even more than actual editing- though edits have a hardy say in the matter. However, one thing we- at least I tend to forget and have to remind myself sometimes- is that being a staff member is more than just editing. We're expected to be the role models, leaders, mature, have a hard work ethic, be encouraging, willingness to help others, neutral/level headed, knowing how to defuse/handle/compromise depending on the situation, and <insert other qualities here> of the Wiki. Welcoming new users and going to a Roundtable or two isn't enough to qualify a person as such. As for edits, it's no lie that numbers have never meant anything to me. I base such things mainly off of the quality. This isn't to say that I think people fixing categories/other "smaller"/"minor" edits don't count- they are definitely helpful and very much needed. However, for someone considering a staff position? A handful of grammar edits and little/no appearance on the IRC is not cool. As for blaming- or rather, explaining- your medical conditions. That's actually pretty admirable to publish something so personal on the internet/international forums. Regardless, all of us have our own problems. Hell, if we're going by my family/"my" self, there's severe depression and anxiety. BUT, we don't blame any problems/conflicts we have on such things or throw a hissy fit when things don't go our way. This means we either have to avoid/stop the sources which trigger our OCD/anxiety/whatever- in this case, to stop editing outright- or to find ways to manage it. Whether this means taking a day off to calm down or to reread a message/edit to compose our thoughts. Just stating that you have a "problem" and to expect others to unconditionally feel sorry for you or to excuse all of your actions-both present and past- is ridiculous. Sure, we'll be like "Oh hey, Xion is prone to being a jerk because she has anger issues" and lower the wrath/rock throwing a bit, but that doesn't excuse or condone me being a jerk. If you are that unstable or prone to "overreacting"/freaking out, what's to stop you from freaking out/mishandling an important staff duty (i.e. affiliation requests/meetings/etc.)? As for "beginning again," you've tried/mentioned that every time you get on here every # month periods. This is proven not just in IRC logs but on here, spanning the course of years. So what's stopping it? Talk is cheap. Actually prove what you're saying. You've "talked the talk" to us for years but have yet to "walk the walk." To be quite honest, most people here that were around back when you first joined/"the old you" was around are myself, TNE, Neumannz, Kryten, maybe Pea, and NinjaSheik. Most of the "new" users here don't have a clue about the "old you." And even if they did, who cares? We've all done stuff on here we're not proud of/didn't reflect ourselves as best as we can be. So what? We've acknowledged that and made the proper apologies/adjustments/whatever. The only person stopping you from moving on is yourself. Besides, most people base other people on how that person acts in the most recent past/present time. On here that would mean like about a month or two. The reason why this has mainly been postponed is exactly because of your behavior. As for begging for staff rights, it's been obvious since the first months you joined that you were mainly interested on becoming a staff member. "[16:54] <ENX> I feel like I was more productive as an admin." -> If you have to be a staff member in order to judge productivity/whatever, you need to recheck that. There are plenty of users that are not staff that are damn good editors. Heck, how do users become staff members anyways? They work hard and become damn good editors. A staff position isn't a kick start to someone's editing career or determines whether or not they serve a purpose on here. Everyone, even the trolls, serve a purpose here. "[18:46] <Xion4ever> Man, name at least five people who view you negatively." "[18:46] <ENX> I don't have to. Thankfully, most are inactive now." "[18:47] <ENX> But I can't do anything to help or fix this Wiki I love and bring it back to its glory days, and it kinda gets me frustrated." -> Implying that without a staff position you can't be of use. What nonsense. "It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually encourages my inactivity. " - If you're going to run away/go inactive anytime there is a problem/disagreement/argument on here, that's inconsistent activity and a waste of time to make you a staff member. Throwback to first paragraph words: level-headed, mature "I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one." - Look for one? Why? You've just shown one right there. And there. And here. Also here. Need I go on? Notice how these are within the past two months- well after the "new you"'s arrival. The whole paragraph in which you call out Neumannz to research OCD - Alright, we get it that you have OCD/"problems." We know that you're not intentionally trying to come off as a jerk or argumentative- no one ever does. I'll even go further to say we understand that you're trying your hardest to keep it "under control." But dang it, man, you can't blame every mishap or shortcoming in your life on said "problems." You think you're the only one with genetic disorders or "problems?" There are a lot of people with the same problems and those much more serious/problematic that find a way to make things work. I can be a "foolish friend," Lord knows I'm a ton of other things, but between: "I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual." and "[18:48] <ENX> And I guess other parts of the problem are I'm just too hard on myself and my expectations are too high. [18:49] <ENX> So I'm self-destructive to top things off." Again, if this is such a big problem why on earth should we put someone in a "high position" if they're going to be such a liability? That would be like letting a toddler drive a car. Counterproductive and quite dangerous. As for the images that need deleted comment, Chainoffire and I wiped the articles for deletion category out last summer. As for the janitorial title, hand me a mop and a bucket and sign me up. I agree with Neumannz on all accounts. And, just to make sure we do actually bury the hatchet this time. I'm calling out on all accounts so we can all duke it out and then get over it/heal. There is too much unspoken drama/problems here. Let it be known that if anyone ever has a problem with me, just say so. I'll listen and we can figure something out. But for pete's sake don't bottle that crap up and let it fester over time. Or else we end up here. Log I don't think ENX would abuse the tools given to staff members. My main concern is the behavior. Even now we're still arguing over 'You guys should just "grin and bear it"' and 'We have a problem with your behavior.' To me, unless it is proven otherwise, I am against returning anyone's rights- even for current/active staff. Staff members are editors, yes, but we are so much more than that. Don't believe me? Check out other websites and even other Wikis. I recall one Wiki bashing DTN and summarizing our entire staff as morons/unprofessional all because they found him to be insulting/unprofessional. Notice that this isn't a final "you shall not pass" thing, but more of an extended probationary period. You keep saying you've changed/you're gonna change. What better encouragement is there to prove it? Until then, I vote no. With all of this stuff said, guys... If I've fallen to a "low beyond low" from all of this, by all means someone ban/remove my staff rights/do something immediately. It was not my intent, but I completely understand and take full responsibility. Xion4ever Who am I? — 04:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Maybe just give ENX his staff rights regardless. Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 04:34, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Eternal Nothingness XIII In this place, to find is to lose, and to lose is to find. That is the way in Castle Oblivion. Administrator rights are not candy to be awarded for good behavior, as you seem to think, Xion4ever. It is malicious behavior that gets a user warned/banned, and have I been? No. Have any of my disputes/issues with other users reached the point where that has needed to happen? No. You site several small, rare instances where I have been at my worst, specifically ignoring my side of things, even as my so-called "friend." I'm not saying "You're my friend, so support me." I'm saying I believe you are acting harshly and leave me feeling rather betrayed, I must admit. The point here is this Wiki is breaking the policy for staff requesting their rights back (two months of activity that is beneficial to the Wiki), and I do not care how new it is. It still has been officially accepted and enacted, as per the Roundtable, and it needs to be enforced. The behavior thing is a separate issue, and again I raise my point that staff rights are purely for the maintenance of the Wiki. They are not brownie points awarded for being the Wiki's nicest, friendliest user. Do people get on my nerves? Yes. Have I acted in ways I am not proud of in the past, specifically at times you have pointed out? Yes. If you are going to treat me like a child who has been punished or is just getting over a punishment, then you are doing the exact kind of thing that caused DTN to leave in the first place: bashing a user, singling him out, and making him an enemy. Like I said, Xion4ever, I feel betrayed by you, especially by how you decided to site our confidential, supposed friend-to-friend chats to make me seem like Public Enemy No. 1. This is a separate issue that you and I need to sort out on the IRC. It is not something to be discussed on a forum about giving back my staff rights, as should be done according to our policies. We really are a hypocritical batch of unprofessional morons. Would giving me back my administrator position suddenly drive me to act aggressively towards another user? No. Simply because it is not in my personality to abuse positions of responsibility. I cannot properly show this change you are trying to mock me with until the missing links are reconnected. Imagine the following scenario, while we're on the subject: A child misbehaves and his mother has had it with him. She takes away his Nintendo 3DS, stating that he will get it back when he has proven he will no longer misbehave and has learned his lesson. Two weeks go by. The boy is on his best behavior. The mother gives back the Nintendo 3DS to see if her son is capable of behaving the way he should with it back in his possession. Here, the misbehaving child (ENX) had his Nintendo 3DS (staff rights) taken away by his mother (the Wiki) because he was inactive. He behaved his best to show he is capable of doing so (the two months of constant editing required by the policy), and now the mother is to give back the 3DS. If she does not give back the 3DS, how can she ever see if her son is capable of behaving the right way with it in his possession? My point here is that you ask to see a change in behavior before I get my rights back. And that is not the issue that got them taken away. It was my inactivity, which has since been remedied to the extent that it can be, but given the nature of this forum's various posts and comments, may become an issue yet again because the batch of unprofessional morons we are is driving me away. And that is not my fault. It is yours. You, the Wiki, are driving off a committed, regular, high-quality editor, and he has every right not to come back. Does he expect you to care or suddenly throw roses at his feet and apologize? No. But he wants you to remember that he chooses to spend his time editing here. He has every right to say "I quit!" and leave you all in the dust. He shouldn't have to come here into a hostile environment and shape himself to meet its standards when people won't meet him half-way. Breaking out of third-person, I will say that if my past behavior is the only thing standing in my way, then that is being held against me at the wrong time. It is, as I've said, a separate issue. The only way it could negatively impact a staff member is if that behavior would cause said staff member to abuse his position, which NO ONE HERE BELIEVES I WOULD DO! You want to see a change in behavior? Well this issue needs to be taken care of first. And it takes two to tango. I'm not going to shrink myself and continue kneeling down to a bunch of jerks. If someone treats me with hostility, of course I am going to become upset by this. Attack someone, and he will defend. Especially when no one else will defend him. I ask that you think of all the good I have done and still do for the Wiki, for once. That is what determines if someone should be in a position to maintain the Wiki on a higher degree than another. Not the person's "behavior."

TheSilentHero — 15:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC) KO! I am quite neutral on this. I wasn't here before you became inactive, so I don't know anything about that. Here's how I see it: You were an admin before and have been active for some months, which was required to get back your rights. On one side, I would say: "give him back his rights", but on the other side, there are more editors here who have been active for a longer time and did not get admin powers yet (nor did they ask for them). Being an admin doesn't really give you more things to do. Yes, you can move images and delete pages, but when need to do that, you can just message an admin. And yes, you can block vandals, but when I compare this wiki to, for example, SmashWiki, there is almost no vandalism. I personally don't think your attitude matters much for becoming an admin or not. (Though I would prefer it if you didn't write things in All Caps). So, basically, I see no reason not to give your rights back, but there isn't really a reason to do so, either.

Don't we already have enough staff members? Another one really won't matter. Besides, you should wait until you're active again before trying to get your powers back. The things that you said you would use them for is already being filled. NinjaSheik is already deleting most of the pages, KSM is moving pages when they need them, (Neumannz sometimes too), and Neumannz is blocking the users who needs to be blocked, as seen somewhere in the changes. I don't believe there is any reason for you to have these powers, as we have enough Staff Members. — RikutheBloody 15:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC) RikutheBloody

Your very first sentence proves that you took literally no time to actually read my message in the first place. This is exactly why I posted that log: to get your attention. Go back and reread all of the comments on here thus far. Unless the person was outright "Yeah! Let's give ENX his membership card back!" you've completely ignored their messages and attacked them in response. Instead of jumping to the cannons so quickly, why don't you actually listen as to why someone would disagree to return your old position? Then, instead of saying "you're all unprofessional morons," let's trying figuring out a compromise or solution. Administrator rights- even moderator rights- are not succulent or savory pieces of candy in which anyone can earn if they're "good little Susie/Johnny." These rights are given to users who not only prove themselves as editors, but also as people. How many of us have either worked or known a store boss/manager/whoever that was a complete jerk? In my experience, the person was an absolute, inconsiderate jerk, but they were good at managing the store/"keeping the business afloat." Said boss however, due to their personality/characteristics, drove people to quit and made the workplace a generally unhappy/miserable place. Likewise, we don't just hand these out to people "for the giggles," or because they've earned it once upon a time. Saying someone is a staff member is the Wiki/current staff/all users/editors saying "we're in complete 100% support and trust of this person to professionally and maturely represent us." If it was a piece of candy, I can list at least five people that deserve it just because they're really nice/cool people. As for asking why you have not been given an official warning template, the last time that happened all this drama came about. Do we really want a repeat of that? Example 1: Edit warring Besides, that should prove that we're trying to be as civil and professional as we can be. Rather than outright slapping a warning template on your talk page we've tried to talk it out and compromise/find a solution. If you'd rather us actually follow our rules of edit warring/other things that merit being given warnings/bans, we'll do just that. We'll go back to being the "big meanies" and "unprofessional morons" that made you hate/leave in the first place. Rare instances of you losing your cool and completely snapping at someone? You act as if this occurs only once every blue moon- it doesn't. Would you prefer I cite the most recent instances? Or stick with the past years? Shoot. Look through yours, Kryten's, and DTN's talk page archives. Lots of goodies to be found there. The point is whether you've earned your staff rights back. To me, I feel that you have not. Ever since you resumed activity, late December and up to the middle of January (about the time school starts again), you've done nothing but edit war with others, be an RC vulture, make "small" edits such as grammar- which staff should do, but that shouldn't primarily be their main contribution or output, complain how unfair this place is, and completely ignore when other people were saying "Hey, we could really use your help here". That is completely mind boggling to me. It doesn't matter who is asking you for help, a staff member or regular user, if you're expecting to become a staff member than you should be jumping up and down saying "Heck yes I'll help you out, let's get this started!" But no. You've done the complete opposite, giving us lip service saying "Oh, I might do that" or "I can't help out." That is ridiculous and insane. Where are these self-proclaimed "high quality edits" you speak of? Going off of what you've shown us in the past two months- determining whether you regain your staff position or not- is a joke. That's like applying for Harvard and sending in an incomplete resume or a two sentence essay response. I'm saying that a staff member isn't someone who has made some good edits in the past and that editing is the only reason someone becomes a staff member. I'm saying that a staff member is someone who made some good edits in the past that the community/staff decided should become a staff member, and then that person works their butt off to uphold that expectation/quality expected of staff members. Alongside all of the editing world is that person's personality/characteristics/actions. Staff members are the main actors in the spotlight in the public's eye/Wiki world. If something sucks, often times they'll blame it on the staff. In short, we can't have short tempered, "I deserve this" people- even if they used to make great edits. This means that: No, the behavior issue is not a separate problem- it is a current problem that needs to be handled now. Under that belief, I still do not see you making any attempt to prove my initial message wrong. Quite the contrary, you are proving it to be correct. Seeing as how our staff policy was never set-in-stone or completely declared perfect, I propose that we insert the addition for both retired/inactive/current/active staff: You must prove that you actually deserve your position/title back. You worked hard to get it in the past, so you should work hard to get it back and keep it. Earning your position back just because you made five grammar/Mirage Arena events a day doesn't mean anything. That's like telling your parents "I want a car because I have a driver's license and it's your job as parents" after you wrecked the car they initially gave you. As for me posting that log. Don't paint a dramatic picture of how "we were best friends" or "this is the absolute most down-right awful thing a person could do." You've removed the "I think of several users on here as friends" from your userpage a month ago when we had a spat over the music articles, and you're actions between not just me but everyone else prove otherwise. In both the distant and most recent past you've thrown people- even those you called "friends" under the bus if it meant you might: become a staff member, make yourself look better, or to fulfill your own selfish actions. I posted that log mainly because it isn't something you and I should talk about, obviously. You have complaints against other users and staff on here- let's hear it and solve this problem right now. I don't believe for one second that you were "going to eventually take care of this problem," because this problem has been around for years- we have IRC logs, talk pages, forums, etc. proving so. If you were actually going to take care/settle this stuff you already would have. Instead you'd rather hide it under the rug until you get what you want. How does that sound? "I cannot properly show this change you are trying to mock me with until the missing links are reconnected." -> This is the biggest point you've been missing from the get go- not just now but back when we first joined: you don't need to be a staff member to prove yourself- as an editor or person. If you think regaining your staff position is a cure-all to everything, you're wrong. Don't believe me? Look at what happened when you did become a moderator back at "the old place." You still acted the same as you do today: arguing with others, complaining how much you "hate this place and such-and-such people." If this doesn't prove the point, then look at some of the non-staff editors we have here. Sove, Pea, Riku the Bloody, ANX219, Pain, FifteenthMember, UltimaSpark, and others. None of those guys/gals are staff but they've been incredibly helpful editors and super nice people. If there was ever a conflict or "bad situation"/argument, those guys acted mature and either found a compromise for everyone or admitted that they were wrong and apologized. What I admire the most is that they kept working hard. They didn't loathe in self-pity and mud-slinging the staff/editors they had problems with. They talked it out, settled the problem, and went on editing as if nothing had happened. As for your whole mother-3D scenario, what on earth do you think those required two months of activity were for? Those were your two months to pull out all the stops and prove that you do indeed fact deserve to have your staff "powers" returned. We gave you two months- even more than that, due to how long we've postponed this discussion- and we're still not seeing any improvement. There are two questions that must be asked of the current staff and anyone that could potentially become staff: Do you want someone that acts like that as a staff member? Do you want someone that acts like that to represent you? This isn't to say that someone is doomed to never become a staff member because of how they currently are- people do indeed change. However, until it is shown that someone has changed, they don't deserve such a title. Again, I reference the "letting a toddler drive a car" scenario in my first message. This follows up to your "He behaved his best to show he is capable of doing so (the two months of constant editing required by the policy), and now the mother is to give back the 3DS." If this is the best you can behave...dang. I'm disappointed. "My point here is that you ask to see a change in behavior before I get my rights back. And that is not the issue that got them taken away. It was my inactivity..." This proves that completely ignored FM's comment above. I'll re-share the links. "...May become an issue yet again because the batch of unprofessional morons we are is driving me away. And that is not my fault. It is yours. You, the Wiki, are driving off a committed, regular, high-quality editor, and he has every right not to come back...But he wants you to remember that he chooses to spend his time editing here. He has every right to say "I quit!" and leave you all in the dust." -> You tell me, how on earth does that sound like someone who deserves to be a staff member? You're outright saying that if we/the Wiki ticks you off enough you'll leave us out to dry. Not only that, but you've insulted the entire community- editors, staff, and users- by saying we're "a batch of unprofessional morons." You want to talk about how self-righteous we all are? You better re-read your sentence ["And that is not my fault. It is yours."]. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. "...if my past behavior is the only thing standing in my way, then that is being held against me at the wrong time..." -> I'm talking about your current behavior. Even a day or two ago you were shouting at Kryten in edit summaries. I'm referencing your behavior the past two "probationary" month periods that come straight from this staff policy that you're banking on. "You want to see a change in behavior? Well this issue needs to be taken care of first." -> That's why I'm posting all these eyesores of texts and making such a big deal out of this. You want the issue settled? Let's settle it. That's what this forum is about. "That is what determines if someone should be in a position to maintain the Wiki on a higher degree than another. Not the person's "behavior."" -> The fact that you fail to see how someone's behavior would matter on being/becoming a staff member exactly proves why I am against reinstating you. We are supposed to be the role models of the Wiki, in both editing and our actions. I am absolutely astonished that you cannot see this, or refuse to. Xion4ever Who am I? — 15:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - Two things: I would like to respectfully request that the back-and-forth arguing here stop or go to PM/IRC, before anyone has to be sanctioned for personal attacks. This is not constructive. Anyone referencing ENX's arguments with me: I'm honestly not bothered by them, and was not offended or anything. I don't want anyone to be taking offense on my behalf. ENX had one position, I disagreed, we are discussing it without personal attacks, that's healthy for a wiki. Silent: I don't think "others have been here longer" is a good reason not to give someone mod tools. Those others, then, should be given the mod tools as well. We are not wikipedia, and do not have the danger of being overwhelmed in mods. If any mod gets out of control, Nezzy and I can easily strip them of their power and ban them.

Eternal Nothingness XIII I hardly know who I am! What is so wrong with wanting some answers!? — 17:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC) Enough is enough. Congratulations, KH Wiki. You and your superiority complexes have lost one editor. How does any of YOUR behavior sound like someone who should be a staff member? I go now to join the ranks of the many internet users who find this site's community members to be unprofessional morons. If I'm not allowed to have an opinion or speak my mind just as everyone else is, then this is your loss. You go on putting words in my mouth and refusing to see how I am right here in your thick-headedness. I quit.

KrytenKoro - "Punch your lights out, hit the pavement. That's what I call entertainment. Causin' problems makes you famous - all the violence makes a statement." TALK - ...if this is in response to me, all I was asking was for the "he-said/she-said" to stop so we can focus on getting consensus for reopping. I guess the topic is moot, then?

I suppose so. To the realm of sleep. RikutheBloody 17:44, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

You have repeatedly shown in this forum why you are unfit to be an admin. You are clearly unwilling to listen to anyone who doesn't share your point of view, I doubt you even bothered to fully read Xion's post. You are seemingly unwilling to accept any wrongdoings on your part and you are clearly only editing to be an admin, nothing else matters to you. This has been seen so many times before and these types of people are not suitable for any position with power and responsibility. You are calling us "unprofessional morons" for being unwilling to give admin powers to a person who is clearly unfit to have them, but the thing is, YOU are showing yourself to be an "unprofessional moron", a spoiled child, the amount of self-entitlement you are showing is astonishing. Maybe you should go back to your doctor and just maybe get diagnosed with narcissism as well? --Sove 18:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)