Forum:Restoration of my Rights

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Restoration of my Rights

Eternal Nothingness XIII True, we don't have hearts. But we remember what it was like. That's what makes us special. — 22:02, 6 February 2015 (UTC) So according to the staff policy, forcibly retired staff/staff who go on extended leaves of absence must be active consistently for a two-month period before their rights will be restored to them. I also recall reading at one point that a request need only be made for an administrator to be re-elected; I asked that we would discuss my return to adminship on today's Roundtable, where it was decided that it should be finalized/discussed on this forum, purely for the sake of archiving material and sourcing. I have met the requirements stated in the staff policy, and while I may not be able to edit every single day because I have returned to college, I plan to edit as often as I can, as often and as much as possible. I aim to do a better job welcoming new users and attending Roundtables when I can; these were also issues people seemed to have when I was last a part of the Wiki's staff. Before I humbly ask this Wiki to give me a second chance, I just wanted to say a few things: This past May, I was diagnosed with OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). This is chiefly an anxiety disorder, leaving the juicy details of my symptoms out, so that is why it may seem at times like I overreact to a situation on the Wiki in conversation with another editor or when fixing up articles. When people try to correct me, I view this (I can't help it, and it's not in my control) as a personal attack against me, hence my tendency to rudely lash out at others. OCD/anxiety is why I overreact to people in general and stand so firmly by my own opinions. My brain cannot handle things that most people can and does not take stress or criticism well. I tend to jump to conclusions, and to those I have hurt over the past few years that I have spent on the Wiki for one reason or another, now that you know the root cause of the problems between us, I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me. I have long sought to "begin again" on this Wiki and patch things up between myself and the users with whom I have had issues with. Looking back on things, I can see why some would find my behavior/reactions to things unjust and uncalled-for. I am truly sorry for any unprofessionalism, etc. that I have displayed in the past. I feel like I have created a rather negative reputation for myself amongst this site's community, and I would really like to change that. I would like to start fresh, with this hopeful re-election, and just say that I am sorry. I'm not trying to start a sob-story or pity party. I just genuinely have wanted to share my thoughts/feelings with this Wiki's community for a long time, and I see now as a perfect opportunity. This is a second chance for me to prove myself as an editor, an administrator, and most importantly, a friend, if you will just give me the chance. Here's to a new beginning, to the new me. Thank you to everyone for considering me again for adminship, as well as for giving me a place where I can share information about one of my most beloved video game series, the Kingdom Hearts Wiki. Whether people agree to give me this second chance or not, rest assured that I will forever remain a faithful, committed editor! And with that, I enter my corridor of darkness and leave this forum to the community.

KrytenKoro - "An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on." TALK - As I've said many times, I'm of the opinion that anyone who's not abusing mod rights should have them -- if we have somebody flouting the community by blocking editors or deleting articles, they should lose the rights. Otherwise...I really don't see the benefit in not giving mod rights to every non-probationary editor. Basically, once we've confirmed they're not a vandal, they should at least have admin rights. EDIT: To clarify, while ENX may have had friction with other editors in the past over conduct or content concerns, I am not aware of any misuse of the administrator tools, and fervently support his re-opping.

Eternal Nothingness XIII Okay... Have it your way. More pain for you means more fun for me! — 02:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC) Thank you, Kryten. Those issues I have had in regards to "conduct or content concerns" are exactly what I hope this community will allow me to call "water under the bridge" as I have my new beginning.

ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 23:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC) I'm not sure why this is made so complicated for ENX. We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story.

Eternal Nothingness XIII Is it that I'm not supposed to exist? — 12:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC) My thoughts exactly, Shard. I don't mean to sound eager, but could we please settle this already?

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 16:18, 9 February 2015 (UTC)   I really wish you didn't sound so eager, because my first instinct tends to be, if someone is trying really hard to get admin rights, they're probably not someone who should have them... Look, as far as qualifications go, I don't have any problems. You've been a good editor here for easily as long as I have, periods of inactivity aside, and you know the ins and outs of this place. I don't even really have a problem with the fact that you argue with other editors and staff. God knows we need healthy debate and all that. If I have a problem, it's that you are incredibly rigid and seem to take things really personally. I suspect that that's a big factor behind the attitude you've had towards certain staff members in the past. (I have the impression I very likely exacerbated things at some point due to general frustration, so, sorry for that.) I'm glad you say you want to put all this behind you—and I sincerely hope that you will—but as of right now I don't know if that's not just lip service. I don't think we've seen any change in attitude yet. You seemed to have seriously strong feelings against said staff, and I don't think that kind of thing goes away so easily. On the other hand, I don't think I can really give a good argument not to give you admin rights again. I can't imagine you abusing them to any degree, and if there isn't some degree of trust, there won't be much chance of moving forward. And it's not like having admin rights or not really changes how one approaches an argument, either. So, yeah, if the general consensus is that you should have admin rights again, I'm alright with it. I just ask that you try to be a bit more open-minded on issues—the rest of us should, too—and that you talk out your problems with any given editor or staff with them, instead of going to the IRC to sling mud, which is really not cool.

Say, if you do get these powers, what would you use them for? — 16:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC) RikutheBloody

Eternal Nothingness XIII In this place, to find is to lose, and to lose is to find. That is the way in Castle Oblivion. — 19:11, 9 February 2015 (UTC) All this fluff aside, I quote ShardofTruth: "...why [is] this [being] made so complicated for ENX[?] We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story." I am not "being so desperate to get admin rights." I agree that a regular who decides being an admin would be cool, thus starts begging for the rights, should not have them. But that is not the case with me. I am merely stating that I have done as the policy stated, and I was asked on the IRC to make this forum. That is all. The only reason I have argued with people in the past is simply because we disagree. About a lot of things. Personalities clash. Sometimes it cannot be helped. In terms of "sounding eager," this is not about trying to do everything in my power to ensure my rights' return. Not at all. It's just that this forum is unnecessary in the first place, given the policy and the requirements I've met, and when the forum died, knowing how this community feels about me, I just knew the that we would pretend it didn't exist and let it gather dust. Because this concerns me, I have a right to want to know what's going on. I honestly think, based on how everyone in this community treats me (people often seem to fail to see their own faults against me, it seems, hence our conflicts; everyone here is so self-righteous in one way or another, myself included), if I were anyone other than myself, then I would have had my rights back, having met the policy's requirements, by the time the roundtable ended, instead of having to go through this forum nonsense. I fail to see how this is anything other than singling out a person, targeting said individual because he is disliked overall for one reason or another, and going out of one's way to unnecessarily make his life more difficult. It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually encourages my inactivity. In fact, if I recall correctly, I was never even warned, as per the policy, when my rights were about to be taken away. I just logged in here at one point to find I was no longer an administrator... I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor can a person completely change to please a community that is generally against him for whatever reason in one. That being said, I do not have animosity towards ANYONE on this Wiki. Sure, there are people I may not enjoy talking to simply because of how our conversations have faired in the past, but I have made every effort (personal messages, et cetera) to try to amend things with these people one-on-one, and all I get is the cold shoulder. I cannot show any change when people refuse to give me the chance, let alone actually look for said change. To understand my "problem," Neumannz, I encourage you to do some research on OCD. I do not expect you to care about me, my life, or anything of that nature. But understand that because of STUPID GENETICS, something I have no control over, I have never been good in social situations, and I guess that means the Wiki. I do take things personally and am easy to anger, but that is not my fault, as much as I try to keep things under control. What this community needs to understand is I try my best every day to "keep cool," et cetera. It is HOW someone approaches me with an issue that determines my response. For instance, someone saying "I don't think the image should go there...let me kindly help you understand why," is a LOT different than what everyone here keeps giving me, the typical "I'm right because I am, and you're wrong because A, B, C. Have a nice day, not that I care if you do or not." So you ask me to act in a way that I do not have the ability to based on OTHER PEOPLE's behavior, not just my own. Ask anyone on this Wiki I have ever been foolish enough to call a "friend" in the past: Xion4ever, Troisnyxetienne, NinjaSheik...these three in particular are the Wikians I find myself closest to, the ones who see the "real me" people like you and Kryten do not often get to witness simply by your own choosing. They know how to interact with me. They know how to have a civil conversation with me, even if it concerns a Wiki issue. My "lip service" (which was not, I assure you) was purely a request from my heart of hearts to the people here to just "grin and bear it." I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual. To hold all that against me, all those factors I had no say in, is just not fair. It is cruel. I am only asking that if we are to put our differences aside, that this Wiki's community take the extra effort to understand what I am going through, to see a side they did not know of before, and perhaps have some questions as to why I have behaved the way I have in the past answered. Of course I would not abuse my "powers." I never did before, so why would I now? To answer RTB's question, I would "use these powers" the way any admin should: to delete what needs to be deleted, move what needs to be moved, and protect the Wiki when it needs protecting. I can't tell you how many times I've been the only one online, been going through the recent changes, and seen a ton of poorly-made edits in need of rollback, thus I've been unable to do it. Or how many images that have been in need of deletion, but I have been unable to assist in any way. This Wiki did an excellent job of making me feel like I wasn't wanted, respected, et cetera. I constantly felt antagonized, like I was an administrator upon the formation of SEIWA simply to fill a slot. My opinions had no more merit, nor should they, but it was obvious who wanted to side with who, and for the most crazy reasons. That rant aside, I do want to put the past behind us and move forward. But I should not have to be on my knees begging for something that was stripped from me when I clearly met the requirements to get it back. The Wiki's several invisible loopholes to our policies really astound me...

This isn't my final or "real post," I'm just posting on here as a placeholder saying you'll see my comments later today. I'm in classes until tonight. Xion4ever 20:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. — TheFifteenthMember 20:32, 9 February 2015 (UTC) I'm still forming my opinion and am somewhat conflicted, but let me just point out a few facts for now. Take them what you will: You were actually warned of your potential demotion three months beforehand. One can revert edits without rollback, unless I'm mistaken? The staff policy is incredibly new and hasn't been put into effect yet. It's never been tried before and we always said it's not set in stone, so don't take it as a personal critique. It's just something we haven't done before. But yes, we probably should stick to it by this point. </last point wasn't a fact>

KrytenKoro - "Space Corp Directive 195—In an emergency power situation, a hologrammatic crew member must lay down his life in order that the living crew members might survive."  "Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly: 'No chance, you metal bastard.'" TALK - Clarifying: I believe any editor who we can trust to not flippantly abuse the admin tools should have them. That should be considered separately from other transgressions, such as personal attacks or unwillingness to work with consensus, which would instead lead to blocks or bans (as I myself have recieved in the past), rather than demotion -- that behavior should only affect admin rights if the user is going to use them to evade the block by unblocking themselves. The only non-tool risk with admins that I know of, of promoting someone who decides to focus more on making their friends happy than maintaining any sort of quality to the wiki, is definitely absent here -- whether or not I agree with ENX on each issue, he's definitely editing based on his own convictions, rather than throwing his hands in the air and claiming that inaccurate trash edits should be kept simply because we don't want to "scare away" the offending editor. (This is a sidenote, I guess, it just...I've had to abandon wikis where I was even the bcrat before because I mistakenly promoted people who cared more about making friends than ensuring any kind of quality. Those kind of editors infuriate me.) We're a small community, and we police the obvious vandals very efficiently. Frankly, it's more efficient to just give editors the ability to deal with problems as they come up, rather than having to wait for an admin to be available. If it helps, we can rename "admin" to "janitor", maybe. I'm putting forward a suggestion that all the active, non-frivolous editors get an admin position. I'm not sure what I did to start getting yelled at here, but I guess my question is, ignoring any other complaints being brought up: Does anyone have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the admin/janitor tools?

How about a vote? Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 23:09, 9 February 2015 (UTC)   As I said before, I do not have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the tools.

Being a staff member means more than just having a new black Keyblade image on your userpage and a new title. It is even more than actual editing- though edits have a hardy say in the matter. However, one thing we- at least I tend to forget and have to remind myself sometimes- is that being a staff member is more than just editing. We're expected to be the role models, leaders, mature, have a hard work ethic, be encouraging, willingness to help others, neutral/level headed, knowing how to defuse/handle/compromise depending on the situation, and <insert other qualities here> of the Wiki. Welcoming new users and going to a Roundtable or two isn't enough to qualify a person as such. As for edits, it's no lie that numbers have never meant anything to me. I base such things mainly off of the quality. This isn't to say that I think people fixing categories/other "smaller"/"minor" edits don't count- they are definitely helpful and very much needed. However, for someone considering a staff position? A handful of grammar edits and little/no appearance on the IRC is not cool. As for blaming- or rather, explaining- your medical conditions. That's actually pretty admirable to publish something so personal on the internet/international forums. Regardless, all of us have our own problems. Hell, if we're going by my family/"my" self, there's severe depression and anxiety. BUT, we don't blame any problems/conflicts we have on such things or throw a hissy fit when things don't go our way. This means we either have to avoid/stop the sources which trigger our OCD/anxiety/whatever- in this case, to stop editing outright- or to find ways to manage it. Whether this means taking a day off to calm down or to reread a message/edit to compose our thoughts. Just stating that you have a "problem" and to expect others to unconditionally feel sorry for you or to excuse all of your actions-both present and past- is ridiculous. Sure, we'll be like "Oh hey, Xion is prone to being a jerk because she has anger issues" and lower the wrath/rock throwing a bit, but that doesn't excuse or condone me being a jerk. If you are that unstable or prone to "overreacting"/freaking out, what's to stop you from freaking out/mishandling an important staff duty (i.e. affiliation requests/meetings/etc.)? As for "beginning again," you've tried/mentioned that every time you get on here every # month periods. This is proven not just in IRC logs but on here, spanning the course of years. So what's stopping it? Talk is cheap. Actually prove what you're saying. You've "talked the talk" to us for years but have yet to "walk the walk." To be quite honest, most people here that were around back when you first joined/"the old you" was around are myself, TNE, Neumannz, Kryten, maybe Pea, and NinjaSheik. Most of the "new" users here don't have a clue about the "old you." And even if they did, who cares? We've all done stuff on here we're not proud of/didn't reflect ourselves as best as we can be. So what? We've acknowledged that and made the proper apologies/adjustments/whatever. The only person stopping you from moving on is yourself. Besides, most people base other people on how that person acts in the most recent past/present time. On here that would mean like about a month or two. The reason why this has mainly been postponed is exactly because of your behavior. As for begging for staff rights, it's been obvious since the first months you joined that you were mainly interested on becoming a staff member. "[16:54] <ENX> I feel like I was more productive as an admin." -> If you have to be a staff member in order to judge productivity/whatever, you need to recheck that. There are plenty of users that are not staff that are damn good editors. Heck, how do users become staff members anyways? They work hard and become damn good editors. A staff position isn't a kick start to someone's editing career or determines whether or not they serve a purpose on here. Everyone, even the trolls, serve a purpose here. "[18:46] <Xion4ever> Man, name at least five people who view you negatively." "[18:46] <ENX> I don't have to. Thankfully, most are inactive now." "[18:47] <ENX> But I can't do anything to help or fix this Wiki I love and bring it back to its glory days, and it kinda gets me frustrated." -> Implying that without a staff position you can't be of use. What nonsense. "It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually encourages my inactivity. " - If you're going to run away/go inactive anytime there is a problem/disagreement/argument on here, that's inconsistent activity and a waste of time to make you a staff member. Throwback to first paragraph words: level-headed, mature "I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one." - Look for one? Why? You've just shown one right there. And there. And here. Also here. Need I go on? Notice how these are within the past two months- well after the "new you"'s arrival. The whole paragraph in which you call out Neumannz to research OCD - Alright, we get it that you have OCD/"problems." We know that you're not intentionally trying to come off as a jerk or argumentative- no one ever does. I'll even go further to say we understand that you're trying your hardest to keep it "under control." But dang it, man, you can't blame every mishap or shortcoming in your life on said "problems." You think you're the only one with genetic disorders or "problems?" There are a lot of people with the same problems and those much more serious/problematic that find a way to make things work. I can be a "foolish friend," Lord knows I'm a ton of other things, but between: "I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual." and "[18:48] <ENX> And I guess other parts of the problem are I'm just too hard on myself and my expectations are too high. [18:49] <ENX> So I'm self-destructive to top things off." Again, if this is such a big problem why on earth should we put someone in a "high position" if they're going to be such a liability? That would be like letting a toddler drive a car. Counterproductive and quite dangerous. As for the images that need deleted comment, Chainoffire and I wiped the articles for deletion category out last summer. As for the janitorial title, hand me a mop and a bucket and sign me up. I agree with Neumannz on all accounts. And, just to make sure we do actually bury the hatchet this time. I'm calling out on all accounts so we can all duke it out and then get over it/heal. There is too much unspoken drama/problems here. Let it be known that if anyone ever has a problem with me, just say so. I'll listen and we can figure something out. But for pete's sake don't bottle that crap up and let it fester over time. Or else we end up here. Log I don't think ENX would abuse the tools given to staff members. My main concern is the behavior. Even now we're still arguing over 'You guys should just "grin and bear it"' and 'We have a problem with your behavior.' To me, unless it is proven otherwise, I am against returning anyone's rights- even for current/active staff. Staff members are editors, yes, but we are so much more than that. Don't believe me? Check out other websites and even other Wikis. I recall one Wiki bashing DTN and summarizing our entire staff as morons/unprofessional all because they found him to be insulting/unprofessional. Notice that this isn't a final "you shall not pass" thing, but more of an extended probationary period. You keep saying you've changed/you're gonna change. What better encouragement is there to prove it? Until then, I vote no. With all of this stuff said, guys... If I've fallen to a "low beyond low" from all of this, by all means someone ban/remove my staff rights/do something immediately. It was not my intent, but I completely understand and take full responsibility. Xion4ever Who am I? — 04:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Maybe just give ENX his staff rights regardless. Byzantinefire - There are no strings on me (talk) 04:34, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Eternal Nothingness XIII The Keyblade...a truly marvelous weapon. Were it only in more...capable hands... Administrator rights are not candy to be awarded for good behavior, as you seem to think, Xion4ever. It is malicious behavior that gets a user warned/banned, and have I been? No. Have any of my disputes/issues with other users reached the point where that has needed to happen? No. You site several small, rare instances where I have been at my worst, specifically ignoring my side of things, even as my so-called "friend." I'm not saying "You're my friend, so support me." I'm saying I believe you are acting harshly and leave me feeling rather betrayed, I must admit. The point here is this Wiki is breaking the policy for staff requesting their rights back (two months of activity that is beneficial to the Wiki), and I do not care how new it is. It still has been officially accepted and enacted, as per the Roundtable, and it needs to be enforced. The behavior thing is a separate issue, and again I raise my point that staff rights are purely for the maintenance of the Wiki. They are not brownie points awarded for being the Wiki's nicest, friendliest user. Do people get on my nerves? Yes. Have I acted in ways I am not proud of in the past, specifically at times you have pointed out? Yes. If you are going to treat me like a child who has been punished or is just getting over a punishment, then you are doing the exact kind of thing that caused DTN to leave in the first place: bashing a user, singling him out, and making him an enemy. Like I said, Xion4ever, I feel betrayed by you, especially by how you decided to site our confidential, supposed friend-to-friend chats to make me seem like Public Enemy No. 1. This is a separate issue that you and I need to sort out on the IRC. It is not something to be discussed on a forum about giving back my staff rights, as should be done according to our policies. We really are a hypocritical batch of unprofessional morons. Would giving me back my administrator position suddenly drive me to act aggressively towards another user? No. Simply because it is not in my personality to abuse positions of responsibility. I cannot properly show this change you are trying to mock me with until the missing links are reconnected. Imagine the following scenario, while we're on the subject: A child misbehaves and his mother has had it with him. She takes away his Nintendo 3DS, stating that he will get it back when he has proven he will no longer misbehave and has learned his lesson. Two weeks go by. The boy is on his best behavior. The mother gives back the Nintendo 3DS to see if her son is capable of behaving the way he should with it back in his possession. Here, the misbehaving child (ENX) had his Nintendo 3DS (staff rights) taken away by his mother (the Wiki) because he was inactive. He behaved his best to show he is capable of doing so (the two months of constant editing required by the policy), and now the mother is to give back the 3DS. If she does not give back the 3DS, how can she ever see if her son is capable of behaving the right way with it in his possession? My point here is that you ask to see a change in behavior before I get my rights back. And that is not the issue that got them taken away. It was my inactivity, which has since been remedied to the extent that it can be, but given the nature of this forum's various posts and comments, may become an issue yet again because the batch of unprofessional morons we are is driving me away. And that is not my fault. It is yours. You, the Wiki, are driving off a committed, regular, high-quality editor, and he has every right not to come back. Does he expect you to care or suddenly throw roses at his feet and apologize? No. But he wants you to remember that he chooses to spend his time editing here. He has every right to say "I quit!" and leave you all in the dust. He shouldn't have to come here into a hostile environment and shape himself to meet its standards when people won't meet him half-way. Breaking out of third-person, I will say that if my past behavior is the only thing standing in my way, then that is being held against me at the wrong time. It is, as I've said, a separate issue. The only way it could negatively impact a staff member is if that behavior would cause said staff member to abuse his position, which NO ONE HERE BELIEVES I WOULD DO! You want to see a change in behavior? Well this issue needs to be taken care of first. And it takes two to tango. I'm not going to shrink myself and continue kneeling down to a bunch of jerks. If someone treats me with hostility, of course I am going to become upset by this. Attack someone, and he will defend. Especially when no one else will defend him. I ask that you think of all the good I have done and still do for the Wiki, for once. That is what determines if someone should be in a position to maintain the Wiki on a higher degree than another. Not the person's "behavior."