Forum:KHWiki Staff: Reverse/Rebirth

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > KHWiki Staff: Reverse/Rebirth

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 07:02, January 9, 2011 (UTC) After discussing this point with a fellow administator via IRC, it has come to my attention that a plethora of our "active" staff are not active at all. Just as we did several months ago, I feel that it is time to label additional administrators and moderators as retired editors--again, nobody will lose their user rights or position, but will merely be moved off of the active staff panel. I consider the following staff members to be inactive, as of this moment in the wiki's history and activity: Bluerfn - no consistent or recent editing or input in most major forums BebopKate - stated herself that she is currently on a break Azul81677 - though he is active almost nightly on IRC and occasionally on FFWiki, he is not present here HeartOfOblivion - disappeared from the face of the wiki Guardian Soul - disappeared from the face of the wiki Ultima the High Seraph - thought he is active ocassionaly on FFWiki, he is not present here EternalNothingnessXIII - no consistent or recent editing or input in most major forums Urutapu - disappeared from the face of the wiki Let me say, personally, that I find it to reflect badly on our wiki to have supposedly fifteen active staff members, yet about half of them are not around to assist those who need them. Due to this many staff members being added to the retired lists, I want to propose the addition of not one, not two, but three new moderators (speaking generally as a whole, our mods are inactive already, and we have no call for a new admin). The moderators will retain their abilities on this wiki, as well as the new one to be moved to. LapisScarab: This guy is absolutely amazing; his work ethic is incredible, he hits all of the forums and talk pages, and has a higher mainspace edit count than most of the current staff members. LevL: see KrytenKoro's message NinjaSheik: A prolific editor who is long overdue for becoming a moderator, with a high edit count in the namespaces that count, constant editing, and speedy revisions of questionable edits and vandalism. Now we need to discuss what to propose to the bureaucrats, Bluerfn and BebopKate. In the discussion section below, please state all agreements and objection you have to these three moderators being added, including if you think other users are worth being considered more than those already listed above. Also, be sure to agree/disagree with the staff members being listed as inactive.

KrytenKoro - This is the song that runs under the credits; these are the credits, so this is where it goes. 'has nothing to do with the movie so we'll say, "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey hey hey hey!" TALK - My reason for nominating LevL was that he has maintained activity, and has done excellent work in maintenance edits. In particular, his mostly single-handed drive to remove the capitalization from non-starting words in headers, something which meant correcting virtually every page, was extraordinary.

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Discussion

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Do what must be done, Doorsey. Lapis, Levl, and Ninja would be GREAT mods. I say we promote them as soon as Levl makes featured user. As for Bluer and Kate, I think it's best to leave Bluer as a 'crat... I dunno, something just feels right about it. As for Kate, didn't we appoint her a bureaucrat just a few months ago? We can't shoot her down after like half a year of bureaucrat-ness just because she decided to take some time off. And I really think we should get the sticks out of our asses and do some de-sysoping. Y'know wut I'm sayin'?

Soxra - Behold! For my very existence refutes the will of the gods! I am a will unto my own, a power that shakes the very foundation of creation! Talk to me! - Soxxeh 7:16am, January 9, 2011 (UTC) Honestly, of the three mods proposed, I feel that only Lapis truly deserves the golden mark, and specifically for the reasons that Door mentioned. He's active, friendly, and a good contributor. While I like both LevL and Ninja as editors, I think neither of them really does enough, nor is active enough, to maintain a moderation position. As for the inactive admins, I've not seen any of them in my 3+ months here. More room could be made for deserving admins. (For which I can think of one in particular—his name starts with an 'N'.) Just my $0.02.

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 07:21, January 9, 2011 (UTC) LegoAlchemist: No no no. Removing an admin's user rights is totally ignoring the work they did for this wiki to earn that position. Those users can return at any time, and should still be honored for what they have done, and their commitment to the wiki that they held at one point. I wrote an entire paragraph or two about this on FFWiki, I can copy/paste it if you would like. And don't worry about the burearucrats, they will still be there, just listed as retired. Their rights will remain--after all, we'll be contacting them with our proposal!

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? I've said it before and I'll say it again. NinjaSheik is basically the reason I started editing this Wiki consistently. She's a fantastic editor that's not only here almost daily, but also keeps a constantly-updated calendar and schedule of when she'll be here. I nominated LevL to be the featured user for a reason, he'd be a great Mod. He's been a tad inactive, but I've seen him around recently. Bluerfn, ENX, and, to an extent, Ultima fall into the same category as LevL from what I remember. I've seen them around, just not as frequently as normal. I don't know if I'd call them completely inactive. EDIT: Huh, Bluer was less active recently than I thought.

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Doorsey, instead of pasting it, you could link it. I'd love to read it.

Here you go. --^DTN 08:14, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - Click TALK - For reference: Bluerfn: Last edit 2 Jan, last article edit 3 Oct, last staff edit 9 Oct. BebopKate: Last edit 1 Nov, last article edit 11 Oct, last staff edit 15 Aug, made wiki-break announcement. Azul: Last edit 1 Jan, last article edit 19 Sep, last staff edit 31 Dec. HeartOfOblivion: Last edit (article) 9 Sep, last staff edit 15 Jun. GuardianSoul: Last edit (article) 12 Sep, last staff edit 2 Sep. Ultima The High Seraph: Last edit 4 Jan, last article edit 24 Aug, last staff edit 2 Dec. EternalNothingnessXIII: Last edit 8 Jan, last article edit 12 Dec, last staff edit 16 Oct. Urutapu: Last edit (article) 4 May, last staff edit 19 Jan (2010). (Wow, voting in the Keyblade War and Mirage Arena really sucked up a lot of the staff's edits. In seriousness, I would suggest HoO, GS, and Urutapu as probable retirees, and ask the others about their status and if they plan to be "active".

LevL Fear my mighty instruments! — 10:16, January 9, 2011 (UTC) It actually surprises me that some of those inactive members are still active according to the staff page. I agree that at least most of them should be listed as inactive. I agree that Lapis and NinjaSheik deserve to be mods, they've both done good work for the wiki.

Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. You can move me onto the inactive list. I do miss this place, and I would like to come back at some point in the future, but I have too much going on for me to be a serious editor here. Until I get my exams and everything elese out of the way, I will be inactive. -11:16, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Bluer says at 14:18, January 9, 2011 (UTC) I am still watching over this wiki despite having no edits for the last few months, but I trust the users, esp. the ones I've given rights to, having worked on reviving the wiki years before, don't worry about my activity or lack thereof.

Chitalian8 Darkness! — Both light and darkness give me the guidance I need. I can turn darkness into hallowed light! — 14:37, January 9, 2011 (UTC) I completely agree with Lapis and Ninja being mods, they're both long overdue. Both have done a ridiculous amount of good work. With LevL, I'm a little skeptical. Certainly he does excellent work, but he rarely shows up on wiki discussions. I feel that he does not contribute enough to everything else besides mainspace.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Well, the mainspace should come first. Mods are just enhanced editors, and most of their powers revolve more around the mainspace. Some forums are important, but not #1.

Soxra - Surely you must've known that this was going to happen. Have something to say...? - Soxxeh 8:07pm, January 9, 2011 (UTC) They need to have some presence in the community; no matter the tools they have at their disposal, they need to be able to relate to and be active in the community. It is a position of authority, after all. (It's the same issue I have with NS.)

SilverCrono *trollface* — Problem? FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-— 20:43, January 9, 2011 (UTC) Not to be trollin', but staff need to have a presence. I agree with Soxra; Lapis is the only one I think deserves modship, because I haven't seen LevL edit actively recently, and Ninja reverts vandalism. Not to be mean, but anybody can do that. And she proves that she doesn't even need Rollback; she reverts faster than anybody. Maybe an award, because I agree she deserves recognition; just not staff.

Chitalian8 Say... — Only by allowing strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves. Life's little crossroads are often as simple as the pull of a trigger. — 20:50, January 9, 2011 (UTC) Well, if Ninja did have rollback, she would be faster. But yeah, also, not to be hatin', but Ninja sometimes displays un-staff member-like attitude.

The Other Sider - I come from the other side. TALK - {{{time}}} Lapis,Levl, and Sheik are the most qualified to be admin.

We're talking about modship at the moment, TDM.

(I'm not ready to give my opinions, yet.) --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 20:57, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Yes, NinjaSheik has lost her temper a few times, but so have many of our current staff members. We all have a breaking point and, since Ninja deals with vandals and unexperienced editors so frequently, she tends to get into more arguments. She has never misused her standard user powers (giving warnings when she shouldn't have, etc.)

We all lose our temper at some point but Sheik is both responsible and reliable.--The Dark Master

Fair enough. But now hearing Crono's argument, I must admit I kind of see his point. Anyone can revert vandalism, I revert vandalism quite often. I even am able to do it within the minute the vandal has vandalized the page. Ninja has just done what I do a thousand more times. Does that make her a more reliable editor? Some would say yes, some would say no. Chitalian8 Please don't do this, Master! I'm not strong enough!— 21:26, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Dark Master - You need it memorized. TALK - {{{time}}} Well she has done her job quite well and I think she deserves something for it.

KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." TALK - ...what? What do you guys expect mods to be for? I really don't get it.

Chitalian8 Talk to a Wall... — All it takes is a step forward. Don't make me laugh. — 22:05, January 9, 2011 (UTC) We want them to be good editors, which all three candidates are, but we also want them to be active members of the community. Read Soxra's point.

KrytenKoro - "An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on." TALK - Active members in what way? Editing? They all do that, more than anyone else here. Describe, exactly, what you guys think they aren't doing enough of, because so far all I'm seeing is "they don't talk on talk pages enough", which is if anything a mark of honor.

They rarely participate in community-building forums in TWTNW thread, like the Wiki Moving forums. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just my opinion, I'm only speaking for myself. Chitalian8 Please don't do this, Master! I'm not strong enough!— 22:48, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?" TALK - I'm going to be kind of brutally honest here, and some people may not like it: In those forums, regular editors don't really contribute much to the discussion. They give their opinions, yes, but between the IRC and the TWTNW forums, the info and decisions that actually end up influencing the wiki are made by discussion between staff-members. I'm not saying at all that the regular editors are ignored. They aren't. It's just very, very seldom that they contribute anything of real value. I wish they would, really, but since most of the problems are MoS stuff, what LevL and NinjaShiek do actually is the best input they could do - implementing the decisions, and demonstrating their effects.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? Quick thing I just noticed; what about Xion4ever? She's experiencing "major inactivity" in her own words.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? In regards to the whole "anyone can revert vandalism" thing, by that logic I'm not qualified to be a mod any more than Ninja or LevL are. I don't do anything magical and I don't have any special tools, I just wrtie stuff. If you really needed Mod powers to do these things then Staff members would be the only editors. The logic behind making someone a mod isn't so much lettin them do something they can't do, but rather giving them the ability to do what they're already doing better. Admins are the ones with the "superpowers".

Soxra - Behold! For my very existence refutes the will of the gods! I am a will unto my own, a power that shakes the very foundation of creation! Talk to me! - Soxxeh 5:26am, January 10, 2011 (UTC) Lapis, you contribute by actually writing article content (a recent example, the short paragraph in the Xemnas article; there's more, but that's just one that comes to mind). I find that 90% of what LevL and Ninja do are just tweaks here and there ("gnoming") or revisions that, while they benefit the Wiki, I don't think constitutes what a moderator should do, at least not exclusively. Both LevL and Ninja, I feel, could be featured users... but not moderators. I really don't want to have to pick specific names, but take a look at the existing staff (of both moderating and administrating variety). Not only do they contribute to the Wiki, but they are also present on the forums, talk pages, and community activities. Sure, being involved in a community does not a moderator make, but neither does simply doing edits here and there. Like Chitalian said, Ninja is not the only one reverting vandalism. I really don't want to sound like I'm attacking people; I'm trying to provide a perspective on them that... I don't know... seems to be being overlooked right now.

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!" TALK - Actually, out of those listed as our "active staff", very few of them even participated in the last vote on the wiki moving - that's one of the complaints that led to the revote. Furthermore, the work Ninja and LevL do isn't glorious, no - which is why they're the ones doing it. Normal editors aren't going to look at the headers and say "Oh, that shouldn't be capitalized, well I'll spend the next few weeks correcting that on every single page," or, "oh, someone vandalizes or makes a bad edit roughly every two minutes, I'll make sure to patrol the recent changes pretty much indefinitely." Admins and mods are specifically there to clean up the messes made on the wiki, and honestly, these two are probably the best and most dedicated in that respect. In point of fact, it is explicitly not the staff member's place to act like a princess, constantly getting into chats and trying to assert "authority" in discussions. Their place is to clean things up - that's pretty much it.

Soxra - Surely you must've known that this was going to happen. Have something to say...? - Soxxeh 5:49am, January 10, 2011 (UTC) I won't claim to know more about administration of this Wiki than you do, because that would obviously just be wrong. But I disagree strongly about the point of reverting vandalism. I could, off the top of my head, name ten people who are quick vandalism/bad-edit reverters. You don't just slap a moderation sticker on them for that reason. Just because one user's count is higher than others doesn't mean they're more suited—maybe their connection speed is a dozen times faster than the next? I do partly agree with the part of the capitalizing, as that takes a lot of effort and just plain time on one's hands. I still don't think this is exclusively representative of the quality that I would expect of the moderators here, given the contributions & efforts of the ones we have already. I don't expect them to be like princesses (as that would just be... awkward), but I expect them to have a community presence. I know all the admins by name here because I see them contribute not only on articles, but represent themselves in the community. It's a position of authority, not just an extra tool or two.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? And now, for a rant. NinjaSheik has been active in recent talk page discussions. Not in recent forums so much, but I doubt that she hasn't seen them, she just doesn't have anything to add. Why do I doubt she's oblivious to them? Because she's here every day. Every. Day. She's not some faceless vandal-fighter for the mainspace either, she protects users too. She has done gnome work since she was a newbie. In fact, her very first edit (in April of 2009, I might add, she's got some experience) was just that. Since day one she has been a good editor. Of her 10,338 (at the moment) edits 5,553 (54%) of them have been mainspace edits. 533 (5%) are talk page edits, 3,156 (8%) user talk, and 156 (2%) for forums. And that's excluding several other things. To the people saying that anyone can revert vandalism, fair enough, but have you done it, say, 2,500 times? Among her earliest mainspace edits have been reverting bad edits. Anyone can type up a word document or edit an image too. Hell, Ninja's written a section or two in the past. As I said before, it's not a question of what they can do. It's the dedication and skill with which they do it, and NinjaSheik is an exceptionally dedicated editor. She has earned the level of trust one needs to have to be a mod.

Neumannz — ATTENTION, DUELISTS! If you could all stop staring at my hair for a moment... TALK — Those child-grabbing classes were worth every penny! — 06:53, January 10, 2011 (UTC)   I'm not gonna lie, I'm both impressed and horribly frightened by the amount of research you put into that, dude.

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 07:02, January 10, 2011 (UTC) ... What Neumannz said. Awesome, though. NinjaSheik also has is a veteran editor of the week--I believe she has been editing here for nearly two years now. This makes NinjaSheik very familiar with wiki policy and how the wiki has been managed and regulated before. I assure you, having been able to observe all of the staff action in the last two years, she will not fail to rise above previous actions. She's an extremely prolific editor who is more active than most of the wiki, and is one of this wiki's highest-editing users--thankfully, we are very happy to have her with us. I did some research on LevL, and W-O-W. And I'm not talking World of Warcraft, here. LevL takes the idea of gnoming, increases its helpfulness and breadth by a factor of 100, and does it at an acceptable page. LevL is an incredible WikiGnome, but I have also seen him on major forums in the past. Very often, the admins that post their opinions in the forums first cover many others' opinions, so LevL may not be contributing to discussion as much as you think because what he thinks needs to be said has already been posted. I still whole-heartedly support all three of these editors as moderators... I think they are three of the examples of true worksmanship in our non-staff community. Even if we were not moving previous staff members to inactive status, I would still have brought up this topic as a reward for the depth and breadth of their fantastic, even star-transcending work.

LapisScarab - Very good. You don't miss a thing. I cannot feel sorrow... No matter what misery befalls the worlds. No matter what you think, what you feel, or how you exist. TALK - Come closer... Chalk it up to insomnia, gratitude, and mild OCD. Ninja's gotten passed over for modship one to many times methinks.

Soxra - Surely you must've known that this was going to happen. Have something to say...? - Soxxeh 7:01am, January 10, 2011 (UTC) You bring up her talk page; look further up and tell me if that's responsible behavior for someone of a moderation position. Granted, some is, but the majority is not. Regardless, that's not the point I'm after here. You said anyone can type up a Word doc or edit an image—er, no they cannot. Just watch the Recent Changes page for a whole day and watch how many paragraphs get reverted/taken down because they're not adequate. But anyone—and by anyone, I mean anyone who is literate and who has a drop of common sense—can revert vandalism. It doesn't take much to realize that adding a quote more than 10 or replacing the content with "Sora is a *****" is vandalism or a bad edit. She's been here a long time, admittedly, which is why her revert count is higher. What about the edit-count-to-days-since-registration ratio? You also show that many of her early edits were reverting vandalism. So were mine, and I can think of others who have the same quality. Though I realize how cruel all my comments sound, I'm trying to be as objective as I can. I just want you to see that the qualities that I, as a user (and someone who's looked after differing communities for a long time), expect and desire from someone of a staff position, regardless of how high on the totem pole they are. I know you value "dedication and skill", but dedication can be shown in many forms. (What if I do edit 1,000 articles incorrectly? I'm pretty dedicated to contributing, even if I haven't gotten the hang of what I should be doing just yet; my ambitions may still be in the right place.) And skill... well, sure. But I've already discussed that (two paragraphs up).

Neumannz — ATTENTION, DUELISTS! If you could all stop staring at my hair for a moment... TALK — Those child-grabbing classes were worth every penny! — 07:24, January 10, 2011 (UTC)   OK, now I believe it's time for my opinon. But since I always hate giving it, I'll be short. Lapis is a prominent and effective editor... But after that rather insane bit of essaying, I'd put in a word for him even if he wasn't. Levl is a most impressive gnome. I'll admit I don't actually agree with the whole "lose the capitalization in section headers" thing, but that's besides the point. (I don't remember when we decided on that bit.) NinjaShiek has been a mainstay here for a long time, and she's very reliable. I think she would be well suited for modship.

Soxra - It bugs the crap out of me when someone talks more than I do. What's wrong? - Soxxeh 8:22am, January 10, 2011 (UTC) Sorry, DTN, I guess I just missed the part where gnoming, reverting edits, and having a really high edit count were the only requirements for candidacy for the half-step to administration. (EDIT (because I meant to put this in the post the *first* time I hit Save Page): Ninety-nine percent of the people I see in moderation positions who become abusive (or not even abusive, but who don't know how to use their position) are there because they were picked solely for activity level (you know, play time in game servers, post count on forums, etc.). This is why I'm so strongly against simply picking people for this reason.) Regardless, this will be my last comment here. Much of what I've said seems to have been ignored at large or blown out of proportion to a point where people are assuming I believe something that I do not, and there's no point repeating my statements if they will not be read for what they are. My apologies to everyone here for getting involved in this.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? I don't think you read what any of us said quite closely enough, Soxra. When did anyone say that a high editcount was the be all-end all reason for wanting LevL and NinjaSheik to be moderators? Yes, I mentioned it, but I was mainly referring to the percentage of her edits that were geared towards work, not chat. And that was still only one of a multitude of reasons I and other have given. I'm honestly barely glancing at their actual edit counts; if all I cared about was that I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of actually combing through Ninja's contributuions. I would have just said "10K, case closed." You say that we should disregard how "high on the totem pole" they are. Umm... why wouldn't we pick the from best editors, the top of the totem pole, if you will, to be staff members? If you're talking about the edit count again, well, see my first paragraph. It isn't just that they're working hard (and I have no idea whatsoever why you're scoffing at that; of course gnoming and protecting the wiki from vandals are parts of being staff members. Making pages isn't all it's about either). It's that they've done such consistently good work. They have proven that they can be trusted. Do you really believe for a second that either LevL or NinjaSheik are going to become "abusive" if they become Mods? Sure, Ninja has a bit of a temper, but show me where she's ever reverted an edit or given a warning purely out of spite or vandalized anything. Yes, I've read her talk page (I went through basically her whole contributions list, why wouldn't I take a gander at the talk page?), and the worst she's ever done is snap at some people. 'Clearly she is a tyrant waiting for a chance to rise up! The same with LevL. The only real issue raised about him is that he hasn't been active on Forums recently. He was in the past, and that's a legitimate concern, but he was just here just yesterday and is overall more active recently. Offering a counter-argument is not the same thing as "He just didn't read what I said." I read you posts, and I understand your concerns... mostly, but I still don't agree. Yes, I know I'm being a bit of a jackass and you're not at all trying to offend anyone. I know you don't have anything against anyone and that you're just voicing your opinion, but I'm sure as hell gonna voice mine too. I don't mean to sound hostile, but that's how it is.