Talk:Vanitas: Difference between revisions

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* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 1|Archive 1]] - November 05, 2009
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2|Archive 2]] - January 20, 2010
* [[Talk:Vanitas/Archive 3|Archive 3]] - February 11, 2018
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== Vanitas and the Unversed ==
==Nomura Interview==
I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."


{{Xiggie|time=01:07, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|talk=Does anyone think that Vanitas is the cause of the Unversed "plague"? I mean, it seems to me that he is controlling them... as seen [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19T44rIvHHE here]. If anyone understands what the two are talking about... please enlighten us!}}
However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas?diff=248958&oldid=248857 I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing]. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


{{TFO|time=20:46, September 13, 2009 (UTC)|Leon=I was shocked. I don't get why he looks like Sora. Saying he's Ven's darkness makes sense but I doubt that's all there is to it. If he is physically related to anyone I would say Master Xehanort. But about a new game. Did any one watch the secret ending but me? It said Reconnect Kingdom Hearts. I'm not suggesting that's what the new game shall be called but I mean that's the basis. It's all in the secret ending already on youtube. I didn't mean to sound snippy!}}
== Monstropolis pre-3D ==


{{Randomnessity|text=No clue what they're saying, but it does seem that Vanitas has some kind of control over the Unversed. And on that boss battle, his health seemed shockingly low when that's gotta be late in Ven's storyline.}}
"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"


The Unversed appear to be the creation of Vanitas, who is the creation of Master Xehanort (with Ventus' help). Vanitas, being made of all of the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus' Heart, is possibly the first Unversed. The Unversed, as you know, are considered the opposite of human life. In the KH Universe, humans are denizens of the Realm of Light. Vanitas, though extracted from a human, is pure Darkness and therefore cannot be a denizen of Light. Thus making him a human from the Realm of Darkness, which would overall make Vanitas a sort of 'anti-human', or the opposite of Human life. Because Vanitas is comprised only of Darkness, it is implied that he would have some control over it and could even influence the Darkness into consciousness and form as the Unversed.
*No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
*His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:


Interesting theory, but could you at least sign it? Raven's wing 11:52, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
:A member of the real Organization XIII.
:This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
:Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.


{{TalkTextTest2
This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.
|image=DiZ2-ChofMem.png
|color=#000000
|color2=#000000
|textcolor=#DC143C
|textcolor2=#DAA520
|line=#FFFFFF
|fonttype=Trebuchet MS
|name=Gnut2.0
|sig=It is the fate of a Nobody...And a Heartless...Anyone who gets in the way really...
|time=''An entity shrouded in mystery...And idioms''
|text=Hmmm, an intersting theory. But, if what you say is true, then that would make Xeanorts (not sure if I spelled that right) Heartless in the same family as Vanitas. But he's a Heartless, so would that make Vanitas a difrent breed of Heartless? Very puzzuling indeed. That would make it that there could possubly another uprising, yes?
}}
 
{{DDark|time=[[User:D.Dark.|D.Dark.]] 02:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC)|text=It kinda makes sense. Ansem (Xehanort's heartless..or Terra's heartless)= Heartless,Organization XIII =Nobody, Vanitas = Unversed(maybe). Alright Ansem is a heartless but has a human form, the organization is comprised of nobodies but they also have human forms (tough it was explained because they had like extra strong hearts or something)and Vanitas is maybe an Unversed and has human form. See the connection? Looks to me that people with extra strong hearts (Xehanort/Terra for example) can make heartless and nobodie in human form. Since we arent really sure about everything with the Unversed i cant say anything about Vanitas really. But it seems to me there are like ranks for these beings. Heartless = Shadows,Stronger Heartless,Boss Heartless and heartless like "Ansem". Nobody = Dusks/Creepers,stronger nobodies,even stronger ones (Twilight Thorn), the organization (cause they have human form), Unversed = The Unversed version of the Shadow heartless,stronger unversed,boss unversed (wheel master), Vanitas. So? Anything sparked in your brain? }}
 
{{Randomnessity|text=Well it is known that Unversed are the opposite of human life and Vanitas is the darkness of Ventus or in other words his opposite. So it ''could'' be very well possible that Vanitas is the first Unversed.}}
 
== Story ==
 
{{Randomnessity|talk=Ok. What the heck happened to the story section?}}
 
I'm wondering if we're allowed to actually start putting in the story information or do we have to wait for the English release for that? [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
{{Randomnessity|text=Well they want people to be careful for what they put on the page. In other words the poster must be absolutely, 100%, perfectly sure that what happened is exactly what happened, with a spoiler template added. And the literary part of the edit must be immaculate as well. In other words an important chunk of the story will be added when it comes out in English.}}
 
I kind of saw that with 358/2 Days- but at this point, the important parts should be coming soon? There's likely some one out there who got the ISO(I do not endorse this option >..>) or bought the game who will eventually give information and clear up some of the confusion regarding why Vanitas looks like Sora because all I've seen so far is guess work. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
{{Randomnessity|text=The majority of us here know all of the important things that happen. They're all over the talk pages. It's just a matter when we get a valid translation.}}
 
That will take awhile, especially with all the people flooding the stream plays, I think some of the pages can start to be edited soon enough though, maybe not the story section, but Terra's, Aqua's and Ventus' Keyblades and Gameplay sections. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
 
{{Randomnessity|text=Oh, the Keyblades and gameplay are well under way. It just takes some work and translating. The story is much more difficult and complicated.}}
 
Indeed, it really looks like Nomura decided to pull a Hideo Kojima on us. [[User:Lavaros|Lavaros]]
 
{{Randomnessity|text=Yeah. And you don't have to type in your username everytime. You can just press the signature button above the edit box and that will take care of it. It's the button with the cursive writing.}}
 
{{Lavaros|time=04:34, January 12, 2010 (UTC)|text=Lucky me then, I've been given a fancy box by JFHavoc. Makes things so much easier (just copy and paste it really.) On the topic of Vanitas though, do we know if he survived within Ventus or sent in to Sora (explaining the resemblance.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Even if Vanitas is inside Sora (and we do know there is some darkness within him), Sora was already a 4-year old kid during this game, and he looked mostly as he does now, just shorter. Really, it's seeming more and more like Nomura made a huge mess out of this situation.}}
 
{{One-Winged Angel|time= 22:43 January 11,2010|text=I think I figured it out but it's confusing. Master Eraqus told Ven he wasn't supposed to exist. It makes sense I guess if you think Ven was supposed to stay a part of Sora's heart because in the secret ending, Ven tells Sora he has to join with his heart again. Adding to this infomation, Vanitas is supposed to be the darkness extracted from Ven's heart. So if Vanitas is the darkness of Ven's heart, and the latter was a part of Sora's heart, it would make sense that Vanitas would look like Sora(except older).}}
 
{{Lavaros|time=08:01, January 12, 2010 (UTC)|text=Well that makes things a little bit clearer, and so far, Terra's connection to Riku is that he chose him to be a Keyblade wielder one day? (possibly wanting to take him on as an apprentice, I think?) And Kairi's connection to Aqua is... that she talked to her one time?}}
 
{{KKD|time=22:52, January 19, 2010 (UTC)|sora=Kryten: He had light hair as a 4 year old, dark hair as a 14 year old (until he stabbed himself) and light hair again n COM and KHII. coincidence? I think not.}}
 
{{TalkTextTest2
|image= Jiminy-Merci-Live.gif
|imagesize=70px
|color=#6B8E23
|color2=#9ACD32
|textcolor=black
|textcolor2=black
|line=black
|fonttype= Times New Roman
|name=Sacul097
|nick= Sacul097
|sig= Don’t talk to me about Mondays… or carrots
|time= All statements are wrong... including this one
|text=I've been wondering about why Sora's hair suddenly changed color. I thought that it had something to do with Namine's memory pods or something--[[User:Sacul097|Sacul097]] 01:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
}}<noinclude>
</noinclude>
 
== Vanitas's story section ==
 
So, can anyone link to the translations of the game, please? Since apparently the entire story has been fan-dubbed somewhere?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 13:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
:I've marked the section with tags for citation. Unless links to reliable, first-hand translations can be provided, the material will be deleted. As it is, the section looks like it was probably written by someone who could ''not'' read the script, and was simply describing the scenes, which is ''what we all agreed we wouldn't do.''[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 19:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Chronologically ==
 
{{Randomnessity|text=I just watched the battle between Aqua and Vanitas/Ventus and I saw that Kingdom Hearts was still in the sky. This is Aqua's last battle in her storyline and this battle happens after Ven's final battle with Vanitas. So since Kingdom Hearts is still in the sky that means Terra is still battling MX correct.
 
That would make the chronological order of the final bosses, Ven vs. Vanitas, Aqua vs. Ven/Vanitas, Lingering Sentiment Terra vs. Terranort, and then finally the very final boss against Terranort in Radiant Garden.
 
Is that the correct order or did I miss something?}}
 
{{Venkix|text= You forgot the secret final boss}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Who would that be?}}
 
 
{{Venkix|text=An unversed/absent soihuotte vanitas. only fought by aqua. Go to the section above called "secret boss" to watch the video}}
{{Randomnessity|text=I remember him but who knows when that fight is chronologically fought. Oh, and apparently he can be fought by all of them, not just Aqua. It's just easier to unlock him in Aqua's story.}}
 
{{Venkix|text= I stand correct then. But doesnt she fight him AFTEr you beat the game? So chronilogically, that was the last boss right?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Well he may appear after you beat the game, or after you accomplish some feat, but that doesn't mean he is fought after the game chronologically. Just like the Lingering Sentiment, Kurt Zisa, the Phantom, Ice Titan, and Sephiroth. If the fights are considered canon they do happen before the final boss.}}
 
{{Lavaros|time=20:15, January 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=I don't think Secret bosses count towards the story line at all, all of them are just extra's too be found. So I don't think Vanitas Sentiment would ever actually of happened.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Well except for KHII Sephiroth and maybe the Lingering Sentiment. I'm positive the Sephiroth stuff in KHII happened because of the cutscenes, and the LS battle because it would be pretty important.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The fact that Xion references Kurt Zisa is just one example indicating that ''all'' sidequests are canon.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Good point, but that could be a reference to the world itself. I mean scimitars are used in that kind of place. She just happened to have four. I'm not disagreeing with you though. It's just when would some of these happen? Why would Sora take a little rest stop to go to Agrabah, Olympus Coliseum, and Neverland, when he's gotta stop the worlds from being destroyed by everyone's favorite psychopathic Heartless?}}
{{KrytenKoro|Well, canonically, he ''did'' take rest-stops at Olympus Coliseum, to challenge and defeat all of the cups, at least up to Hades. ''Days'' provides physical evidence for that. Then the side-jaunt to Hollow Bastion to fight Xemnas is canon as well.
 
I'm guessing he did these because he wanted to check on his friends, or needed to train.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=But how did Leon and Yuffie end up at the cups? I think the only canon fights at the cups are the Cloud, Hercules, Hades, Titans, and maybe Sephiroth matches. Just my opinion.
 
And can you fight Xemnas the time you return to Hollow Bastion to seal the Keyhole and defeat the Behemoth? Or is it until after that when he appears? If he appears when you return for the Keyhole, that was probably when Sora fought him.


And checking up on his friends when the universe is in danger would be something Sora would do.}}
There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:The Platinum Match doesn't seem to be canon, since Sephiroth and Sora act as if they've never met in KH2.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 22:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


{{Randomnessity|text=I didn't really think so either. That's why I put maybe.}}
His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is '''back''', he '''continues''' to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
:referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
:It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
:The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have ''just happened'', based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. ''every day'', was not aware anything was amiss at first.
:There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was ''only'' supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
::Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
:::"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
::If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
:::His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
:The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
:Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
:We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
:::No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it ''thought'' it was Ansem-possessed Riku.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
::::[https://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/218575-kingdom-hearts-3-story-discussion-48.html Good explanation of scene].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


{{Lavaros|time=22:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think that the fight with Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 2 will count (even though it's optional), but I don't think that the fight with him in Kingdom Hearts does, as for the Ice Titan, Kurt Zisa and The Phantom, it's kind of hard to see why he would come back to Agrabah or Neverland once he thought it was okay when he was so close to getting Riku back and getting home.}}
{{KrytenKoro|The Sephiroth bit, maybe, although it's not like they sat down and had tea or anything. However, ''all'' of the Phil through Hades cups are canon, since the scoreboards, which list each seed, are still up in ''Days''.


Because of this, and because once you start excluding cutscenes for canon status, it can get pretty hairy, I think the best solution is just to consider the entire games canon - it's not like Sephiroth and Sora being unfamiliar is the greatest of the plot holes in the series. We can then just comment when a plot hole appears.}}
Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:
{{Venkix|text= Both thoeries are interesting. But has anyone know what happens after you beat the unversed Vanitas? do yuo get an item? possibly another cutscene?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=Has anyone even beaten him yet? In all the videos I've seen no one has even layed a finger on him.}}


{{Venkix|text= Me too, but has anyone been able to beat it? Does anyone knows what happens? I know it has to be something good because that bosss honestly rapes....}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Ultimania-Interviews-Translated-2602
{{Randomnessity|text=Or they might pull a KH Sephiroth on us and leave us with nothing after all the hard work.}}
*https://www.khinsider.com/news/KH3D-Famitsu-Weekly-Interview-Translated-2603


{{Lavaros|time=00:38, January 14, 2010 (UTC)|text= A friend of mine has Birth By Sleep, when he tries to beat Vanitas Sentiment, I'll ask if he can record it?}}
:— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
:There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway, the real problem is that, apparently, Vanitas requires a very specific deck to defeat. Or so says Nomura.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 00:40, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
::Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. ''When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.''
{{Randomnessity|text=Deck?}}
:— What about Vanitas?
{{Venkix|text= Yes lavaros, that would be nice. Randomnesity you could be right. But when you beat Sephiroth, didn't you at least get One-Winged angel? It's been so long I can't remember.}}
::Nomura: ''Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form.'' He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.
:'''There's no reason for the million empty lines.''' Anyway Randomnessity, yeah, you set up techniques sort of like a deck.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 00:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Randomnessity|text=I see. I never read the gameplay sections. Wanted to learn as I went along. And maybe they never disabled the RTE?


EDIT: You only get the One Winged Angel in FM.}}
So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched ''during'' KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora ''in the flesh''. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until ''after'' the Lump of Horror is defeated.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)


The prize is nothing special and certainly not as cool as the one winged angel keyblade.[[User:Hirokey123|Hirokey123]] 05:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
:To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
== Randall ==


{{Key-blade master|time=02:23, January 31, 2010 (UTC)|text=I believe when you beat the lingering sentiment vanitas all you get is some very special, synthesis item. i'm not too sure though.}}
*Vanitas encountered the monster [[Randall]], who told him about [[Monstropolis]] and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
**What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
*Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
**That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
*Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
**Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made ''him'' more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
*stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
**this sounds like script regurgitation.
*Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.
**source?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


== Just a question... *spoilers* ==
I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):


How the heck did all of that hair fit into Vanitas's helmet!?! [[User:Keyblade474|Keyblade474]] 16:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.


{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)


{{Oddishh
==Update "Design" image==
|text = because Vanitas' magical hair can bend and sway whatever way it pleases without showing under the helmet. that's how KH physics work, silly. xDDD
I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQmSebusKs this video] (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
}}<br />
If this game had realistic physics, we shouldn't have been able to recognize Sora's head under the helmet. The helmet hair would have made him completely unrecognizable.


I also enjoyed Square's convenient "only showing his eyes" as his helmet is taken off. I kind of would have enjoyed seeing his hair just go POOF and appear... Yes, this entire post was completely relevant. [[Special:Contributions/72.77.96.235|72.77.96.235]] 06:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
== KH3 novel ==


== Connection With Riku ==
New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.5.141|84.203.5.141]] 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


{{HeartFallout|time=02:59, February 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=Anyone have any theories how Vanitas is connected to Riku? They have the same battle stance/Organic suit}}
:I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)
:That's...pretty much it. Xehanort/the darkness just likes to recycle outfits.—[[User:Urutapu|Urutapu]] 04:51, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


{{Xabryn|text=Does riku have the same Battle stance as Vanitas before the destruction of DI?i mean on the battle he seem more on the defensive and he hold the toy sword with only one hand so i'm not sure.}}
== Graveyard Keyblades ==


== Enough! ==
The ''KHIII ReMind'' fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as '''Vanitas' Keyblades''', should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --[[Special:Contributions/84.203.0.65|84.203.0.65]] 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 06:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)|angry=This page needs be protected or something. Its annoying for people to have to keep reverting posts made by people who have no sources as to the Trivia and Voice acting part.}}
== Brothers ==
{{NeutraVega|I completely agree.  This HJO bullshit really needs to stop, and this article (along a plethora of others) just need a strong dosage of lockage for a good while.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=It is kinda annoying.}}
{{Randomnessity|text=I had to revert that particular edit from two different anons in the vicinity of two minutes. I think it should be user blocked.}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 00:08, February 13, 2010 (UTC)|angry=Late reply but thanks for agreeing. Anyone know any way to do that?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=The only one who can protect a page are admins. Talk to KrytenKoro.}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 00:15, February 13, 2010 (UTC)|angry=Hmm alright,I'll ask. In the mean time,lets keep this page fine}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Right.}}


== Universal Chaos...? ==
So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. {{unsigned|Keybladefan0204}}
:They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)


{{NeutraVega|Where do people come up with this crap...?  And the fact that he took the time to write all that out, only for it to be deleted in a minute...  Just...wow.}}
== New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book==
{{Randomnessity|text=Some people think this can be used for fanon as well. At least that's what I think.}}
So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then?
{{NeutraVega|Isn't there an entirely separate wiki for that kind of nonsense?}}
Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315
{{NinjaSheik|text=Now, now. Calm down, you two discussed this calmly, all right?}}
{{Randomnessity|text=@NeutraVega:Indeed there is. A lot of anon don't know that. That doesn't give them the right to add all of their fanon ideas to this wiki. There should be a headline somewhere that states this wiki does not support fanon ideas.  


@NinjaShiek:Don't worry. I never lose my calm in a conversation.}}
[[User:YeetusVanitas2010|YeetusVanitas2010]] ([[User talk:YeetusVanitas2010|talk]]) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
{{LapisScarab|time=21:01, February 16, 2010 (UTC)|text=That is a very good idea. If there were a headline like that, it should probably have a link to the Kingdom Hearts Fanon Wiki of it. That otta divert a lot of (though not all, let's be honest) the fanon ideas.}}
:These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the [https://i.imgur.com/aLL1Etgg.jpg Memorial Ultimania] and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/bbs_03.png "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)"] and [http://images.khinsider.com/2014%20Uploads/10/Memorial%20Ultimania/kh2_05.png "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)"] --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:35, 4 September 2021

Archive
Archives

Nomura Interview[edit]

I finished adding proper citations to Vanitas's page, but I'm having trouble tracking one of the interviews down. In Vanitas's Trivia section, there is a line that states: "Nomura also stated in another interview that Vanitas's identity was familiar and perhaps also shocking."

However, I spent days combing through the KHInsider's archives for the interviews and I've tried Google-ing, but I can't seen to find the interview where Nomura-sensei said that Vanita's face is supposed to "shock" fans, which is stated as part of the interview. I tried going back to the Keyhole where that trivia was first inserted into the page, but I got nothing. When I tried typing keywords in the search engine, I couldn't find anything. Does anyone remember which interview Nomura-sensei said that? Was it in a video interview or at a con where one of the trailers were shown? I took the sentence out of the trivia section, because unless it's sourced, it doesn't really belong there. Besides, I don't think it fitted well since it had more to do Vanitas's voice.--NinjaSheik 23:10, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Monstropolis pre-3D[edit]

"he says his heart needed to be reconstructed using negative emotions, meaning he was collected at some point after his battle with Ventus (as that was when his heart was shattered). His journal entry also refers to him as being from after BBS"

  • No, it doesn't. It means that he, currently, is after KHBBS. Nothing more.
  • His journal entry absolutely does not say that. It says:
A member of the real Organization XIII.
This is the pure darkness that Master Xehanort extracted from Ventus's heart. He was pitted against Ventus in order to forge the X-blade, but Ventus prevailed and Vanitas ceased to exist.
Now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus.

This is exactly parallel to all of the other Org profiles talking about how Sora or Riku killed them. Xemnas's profile talks about they "put an end to his plans and Xemnas himself." Ansem's talks about him being destroyed. They both also say how, despite their destruction, they've returned.

There is nothing in the journal that indicates that Vanitas came back into existence on his own, instead of being snatched before his death in BBS, just like the other org members were."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

His heart was shattered at the end of BBS, why would it need to be reconstructed in Monstropolis if he was snatched from before it being shattered? The journal saying "now that he is back, he continues to seek his "brother," Ventus" is different from the others ("despite this Ansem/Xemnas has returned") as his refers to him as being back from his defeat and continuing with his prior task. --Vanitas (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Because it was already damaged by the climax of KHBBS. In addition, with the events following. Vanitas was originally unstable until Sora's heart connected with Ventus's -- if that link has been tampered with (CoM, etc.), even if the heart is taken to the future, you'd expect there to be instability again.
referring to him being back from his defeat is the same language used for Ansem and Xemnas.
It refers to him continuing his task, because its his own task apart from the organization's plans. He's one of the few Organization members doing his own thing.
The Ultimania specifically says this is Vanitas "from the past", and the events with Randall are implied to have just happened, based on the fact that Sully, who works at Monsters Inc. every day, was not aware anything was amiss at first.
There is no mechanism provided anywhere in the series for him to have just "come back", and if he had, what would be the point of snatching him from the past? He'd already be there. Snatching from the past was only supposed to be a mechanism for retrieving those who were irretrievably destroyed."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, I have no idea where all this is from:
"Vanitas's fractured heart met the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy. Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter, Vanitas manipulates Randall using his desire for revenge"
If it was explicitly mentioned in the scenes, fine, but I don't recall anything indicating that Vanitas found Randall in Louisiana and had this conversation with him."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Wasn't his heart only fragmented after his final fight with Ventus in BBS? It wouldn't need to be reconstructed otherwise. Vanitas implies to Mike that the Unversed and Randall have been working behind the scenes, making canisters of scream energy under their noses. He also did say that he found Randall. He could have been picked up from the past because they could not obtain him in the present, like Xion. --Vanitas (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Xion was taken from the past so that they'd have an obedient version -- and even with being taken from her puppet days, she still had links of friendship to Sora and Lea.
His heart was damaged from the very moment of his creation. That's why the Unversed existed to begin with."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

They also collected every member of the org via time travel in DDD even though most existed in the present. Anyhow, maybe it would be best to just put the info back in the KHIII section and not mention what point in the past he was collected from. --Vanitas (talk) 23:09, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

No, they didn't. The KH3D and KH3 Ultimania explicitly say they didn't. The ones that existed in the present just showed up on their own.
The KH3 Ultimania explicitly says that the replica contains the heart of "Vanitas from the past". That only makes sense as being a reference to BBS.
Also, I need to rephrase what I said about Xion -- they picked a certain point in time to pluck her from because that was when she was most pliant, but the reason they needed to use time travel in the first place is that she had already reunited with Sora."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Well it does not say exactly where in the past he comes from, so we don't need to explicitly say (like how we're not mentioning it with Repliku). Even going by him not existing post-BBS, he could be from pre-BBS. --Vanitas (talk) 23:23, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

We know when Repliku is taken from. It's from before Namine undid the brainwashing on him. If it's not in the article, it should be.::"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Is it not that Dark Riku is from the time when Ansem possessed Riku, rather than being Riku Replica's Heart? From what I understood that was how it worked and the Replica comment was just concerning the vessel within which Dark Riku's Hearts was within. I also agree with what has been said regarding Vanitas' own Heart. Ultimania states that he's from the past, and i think that the work the Unversed did to collect negative emotions was just to fill out Vanitas' Heart and allow him to be a complete being on his own - since he'd still otherwise lack half a Heart, just like Ventus. But at the same time - he still sought to join his Heart with Ventus's, which would suggest that he is simply restored from post KHBBS. I think it's more of a slip up somewhere on Nomura's part to be honest (Levi657 (talk) 18:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC))
No. Both the final death of Dark Riku, and the Ultimania, state that Dark Riku is the Riku Replica from the period of time in which it thought it was Ansem-possessed Riku."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Good explanation of scene."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

So his fractured heart was picked up after his final battle with Ven by Youngnort, but his fixing of his heart happened after he got a replica body rather than in-between games. That works too. --Vanitas (talk) 18:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


Okay, so KH3D might actually inform some of this:

— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?
Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
— What about Vanitas?
Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

So, especially with the clarification from the Ultimania that Demyx and Vexen were benched during KH3D, I think we can clarify a bit here. Vanitas talks about how his heart is just made of negativity, that the screams and sadness were enough to reconstruct it, that it is still incomplete, and he emphasizes that he's never met Sora in the flesh. So, his weakened heart was brought back from the past, and maybe wasn't strong enough to attach to a replica yet (this is why Vanitas doesn't have a physical form in KH3D). Mike and Sulley are just finishing their playdate with Boo when the Unversed are found, indicating they've just been there for a day (at least, in terms of Monstropolis). So, the implication seems to be (and I don't think is is quite explicit enough to put on the wiki itself, yet), that Vanitas's weak heart was dropped off at Monstropolis, used the Unversed to soak up the remaining surplus of scream energy as well as acquire new screams, and then was strong enough for a Replica. As far as I can tell, we don't even see him physically interacting with anything at Monstropolis until after the Lump of Horror is defeated."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

To back this up, Vexen says at The Caribbean that not even his finest replica could continue existing without a heart."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Randall[edit]

  • Vanitas encountered the monster Randall, who told him about Monstropolis and how it was powered by the screams of children thanks to Monsters Inc. collecting it as a source of energy.
    • What is the source that Randall specifically informed Vanitas of how screams were used for energy, instead of just negativity being harvested?
  • Learning that Randall had been banished from his world after he refused to accept a new energy source in the form of children's laughter,
    • That's not why Randall was banished in the movie. What is the source for this being the cause in the game?
  • Vanitas encourages Randall's belief that scream power was more reliable,
    • Source? Randall's driving force in the movies was just that scream power made him more important, since it was what he was best at. Randall wants to be the star.
  • stating that if a child's heart was broken over something truly precious to to them, they would be a limitless source of negative emotions.
    • this sounds like script regurgitation.
  • Vanitas repairs the doorway Randall had been banished through using a dark corridor.

Should probably be rewritten (I just put back what was there before). The only part I think is accurate is that Vanitas finds Randall and helps him get back by fixing the door. --Vanitas (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I rewatched the scenes, and I think this is a good summary (needs to be rewritten for Vanitas PoV):

Fortunately for him, Vanitas found him and decided to exploit his ambition and desire for revenge. Vanitas fixed Randall's door, allowing him to return to Monsters, Inc. and attempt to reclaim his prior prestige. However, believing that laugh power is unsustainable, he still insisted on exploiting negative emotional energy, and allied with Vanitas's Unversed to acquire it. With their help, he infiltrated the factory and weaponized its machinery.

"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:35, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Update "Design" image[edit]

I was wondering whether we should keep the current picture or replace it with one from KH3, when Ven sees Sora for the first time and imagines Vanitas's unmasked face, as seen at the very start of this video (it's pretty LQ, but convenient). Immblueversion (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

KH3 novel[edit]

New info from the KH3 novel (https://blowingoffsteam2.tumblr.com/post/186619968004). --84.203.5.141 21:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I just read the post, was that really from the legit novel, because of so then we REALLY REALLY know stuffs gonna go down in the next one. ZBroadcast (talk) 10:37 8 December, 2019 (UTC)

Graveyard Keyblades[edit]

The KHIII ReMind fight with Vanitas gives the name for the Keyblade Graveyard Keyblades as Vanitas' Keyblades, should they get a page or at least be mentioned in his Weapon section? --84.203.0.65 15:34, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Brothers[edit]

So Vanitas at different points in KH3 calls Sora and Ven his brothers. What are your guys take on it. Should we consider Sora, Ven, and Vanitas as 3 brothers? I know they aren't brothers in the conventional sense, but in this wiki should we refer to them more as "brothers"? Vanitas conveyed decent logic towards the 3 of them being brothers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keybladefan0204 (talk • contribs)

They're not brothers, so no. We can mention that Vanitas calls them his brothers, but that's about it. TheSilentHero 17:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

New info about Vanitas from the Official Character Book[edit]

So I found this new detail, turns out Vanitas' Keyblade doesn't have an actual official name (Despite the Vanitas Remnant giving the Void Gear Keyblade upon defeat), but it does note on the gear motif and blue eye of the design. Should we update any info on Vanitas then? Link is right here: https://twitter.com/petalscythe/status/1233097044224610315

YeetusVanitas2010 (talk) 17:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

These stories are third-tier canon. Not to mention, Void Gear was confirmed to be its name in one of the Ultimanias. --Samoa Joe (talk) 03:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

We have this discussion on and off since 2010. In an interview for BBS Nomura confirmed, that you get Vanitas's Keyblade from Vanitas Remnant, which makes it synonymous with the Void Gear. Still the Memorial Ultimania and now the Character Book only name it "Vanitas's Keyblade", which is why this name appears also on the Void Gear page since we don't have a separate article for the colored variant. It's more a formality I think, they simply make a distinction between a Keychain's name and the Keyblade's actual name like with "Master Eraqus' Keyblade (Master Keeper)" and "Kairi's Keyblade (Destiny Place)" --ShardofTruth 09:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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