Forum:Titles in titles

From the Kingdom Hearts Wiki: A world of information not accessible by Gummiship
Jump to navigationJump to search
Realm of Sleep Forum Logo.png
Forums: Index > The Realm of Sleep > Titles in titles


209.png
KrytenKoro - Click
TALK -
So, normally you don't include a person's various titles in their article name on a wiki, although you can within the lead or body.

However, we need to make a decision on where that difference lies. We have a lot of these that have titles, and some that don't but could have them if we decide to include them.

List
  • Ansem the Wise (poss. Ansem (the Wise), or King Ansem)
  • Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (poss. Ansem (Seeker of Darkness))
  • Aqua (poss. Master Aqua)
  • Aurora (poss. Princess Aurora)
  • Beast (poss. Prince Adam(is this canon?), The Beast)
  • Belle (poss. Princess Belle)
  • Captain Barbossa (poss. Barbossa, Hector Barbossa)
  • Captain Hook (poss. Hook)
  • Jack Sparrow (poss. Captain Jack Sparrow, Captain Sparrow)
  • Cinderella (poss. Princess Cinderella)
  • Daisy Duck (poss. Princess Daisy?)
  • Dr. Finkelstein (poss. Finkelstein)
  • Dr. Jumba (poss. Jumba)
  • Jasmine (poss. Princess Jasmine)
  • Mickey Mouse (poss. The King, Master Mickey, King Mickey, Master Mickey Mouse, King Mickey Mouse, etc.)
  • King Triton (poss. Triton)
  • Lady Tremaine (poss. Tremaine)
  • Master Eraqus (poss. Eraqus)
  • Xehanort (poss. Master Xehanort)
  • Mr. Smee (poss. Smee)
  • Mrs. Potts (poss. Potts)
  • Prince Charming (poss. Charming)
  • Prince Eric (poss. Eric)
  • Prince Phillip (poss. Phillip)
  • Minnie Mouse (poss. Queen Minnie, Queen Minnie Mouse)
  • Riku (poss. Master Riku)
  • Yen Sid (poss. Master Yen Sid)

Personally, I think the Ansems should stay the same, and for the various royalty, the title should be dropped if they are ever referred to without it. As for "Master", I don't think it should be in the article titles at all; right now, only Eraqus uses it, and I'm certain we've heard him just called Eraqus at some point. Same with Captain, I think "Barbossa" and "Hook" have appeared on their own, though if we can get canon backing for Hector and, I think, James, we should add them (if not, their articles should not be claiming them as the names). As for Squall Leonhart, and any other FF characters given full names outside the journal...I feel like we should add them in. Mr., Mrs., and Dr., it sounds pretty funky to drop, so let's leave them.

....or, we can tell Kryten to jog off, and keep using whatever the latest journal entry uses. Thoughts?

(Also, I can't access it right now, but somehow the categories on KHWiki:Horseless Headless Horsemann need to be neutered.)


KieraTalk.png
UxieLover1994 Cuando la vida te da las herramientas, a construir motos libración — 17:46, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
480MS.png If it means changing the names to their true names or whatnot, I'm against it. Too Sci-Fi wiki-like. Next, you'll be asking on changing the tence to past, which I only agree on for certain articles. I'm happier the way things are. So sorry, but just stating my two cents.


Sprite_Aqua_0.2_1.png
LightRoxas - "I'm proud to be a small part of something bigger - the people it did choose.
TALK - "I am who I am, because of them."
I agree that we should drop the Master from all titles - and I too remember that the page was once just Eraqus. As for the rest, I'd say keep them - in many cases, the title is almost their first name of sorts, since they aren't referenced by their actual name in the game. That being said, I can see changing Mickey and Minnie to have their "King" and "Queen" titles, if that's what the other editors want - but I personally think they are fine as is.
209.png
KrytenKoro - "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living."
TALK -
Minnie and Mickey have both been named without "King/Queen" in their names, so those would be left as is according to my suggestion.

Basically, the effect of my suggestion would be:

  • Captain Barbossa >> Hector Barbossa
  • Captain Hook >> Hook
  • Dr. Finkelstein >> Finkelstein
  • Dr. Jumba >> Jumba
  • King Triton >> Triton
  • Lady Tremaine >> Tremaine
  • Master Eraqus >> Eraqus
  • Mr. Smee >> Smee
  • Mrs. Potts >> Potts
  • Prince Charming >> Charming
  • Prince Eric >> Eric
  • Prince Phillip >> Phillip
  • Leon >> Squall Leonhart

With each of these being only if we can find somewhere in the scripts or journals where they are referred to with these names.

Terra-XehanortTalkBubble.png
Eternal Nothingness XIII - This heart belongs again to darkness. All worlds begin in darkness, and all so end. The heart is no different. Darkness sprouts within it—it grows, consumes it. Such is its nature. In the end, every heart returns to the darkness whence it came.
TALK - Your body submits, your heart succumbs—so why does your mind resist? — 23:27, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
No Name Keychain KHBBS.png I really can't stand it when our "logic", so-called, contradicts what the GAMES tell us. It is my personal opinion that we go with what the journal entries call the respective characters and just leave the bloody articles ALONE for once instead of drastically overthinking things:

Games > Nomura referring to "Master Xehanort" as "Xehanort" 20 times in a KH3D interview because he knows we know who he's talking about in context of the interview > fan-logic.

Honestly, if I were just someone browsing around the KH Wiki, I would type "Master Eraqus" in the search bar if I wanted to read about Master Eraqus, not "Eraqus". I would type "Aqua" to read about Aqua rather than "Master Aqua". I would search "Captain Hook" to read about Captain Hook rather than "Hook" simply because that's not what the character's called (at least the incarnation of him present in Kingdom Hearts). There is no such character as "Triton", only KING Triton.

Short and sweet, informally dropping a title or using nicknames is simply part of natural conversation. I don't go around calling you "KrytenKoro" all the time; I call you "Kryten". You don't call me "Eternal Nothingness XIII" all the time; you call me "ENX". Same goes for last names: I don't call Tom Sanderson "Tom Sanderson" whenever I refer to him; I call him "Tom". Unless there are numerous characters running around with the same name (*cough* Xehanort incarnations *cough*), it is implied that when I say "Tom", I mean "Tom Sanderson". We keep both Jack Sparrow AND Jack Skellington so we know who we're talking about when. If the name appears again in context and it's obvious we know who we're talking about, THAT's when we shift to "Jack".

Furthermore, a character like Jack Sparrow referring to Captain Barbossa as "Barbossa" is simply so we don't have to hear "Captain Barbossa, Captain Barbossa, Captain Barbossa" over and over again. As I said above, it's just not how people talk. You also need to look at how the character him/herself and his/her relationship and mannerisms with the person to whom he/she refers. Master Xehanort doesn't respect Master Eraqus, so why use the title? Thus "Eraqus" is used by Master Xehanort to refer to that particular character. When "Xehanort" is referred to as such, it's very confusing in the case of KH3D, and Master Xehanort or Young Xehanort usually has to be on the screen for us to know who the characters are talking about. Obviously the only Xehanort in BBS was "Master Xehanort", so we know who Terra's referring to when he says, "But I was tricked. Xehanort set the whole thing up."

Your suggestions are just no-brainers or common sense (note I do not list all of your suggestions, only a few that get the point across for all related characters; I apologize for any redundancy to above sections):

  • Master Xehanort -> Xehanort...Really? And YOU hate confusing titles/links on the Wiki? The article could be about anyone called "Xehanort" if we did something like this... I saw your draft of the "Xehanort" article, and while the arguement about merging Young Xehanort and Master Xehanort is another arguement for another day, I honestly thought someone finally changed "Terra-Xehanort" back to "Xehanort" (apprentice) like I had asked at forst. It wasn't until I bothered to actually click the link on the Recent Changes that I saw the subject matter...
  • Belle -> Princess Belle....Um, no. As long as you've been alive and Beauty and the Beast has been out, how many times have you actually seen/heard her referred to this way?
  • Lady Tremaine -> Tremaine...Who the hell is "Tremaine"? No character has ever existed with this name.
  • Leon -> Squall Leonhart...As far as I know, no character called "Squall Leonhart" exists within Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, it's included in Leon's backstory, but that's like changing your last name and having some stubborn idiot continue to use your original one.
  • Cloud -> Cloud Strife...The last name is never used; we're not the FF Wiki, where it IS. While we as fans know him to be Cloud Strife, the characters in Kingdom Hearts know him as Cloud.
  • Captain Hook -> James Hook...The character is never reffered to as "James Hook" in Disney media, which is the farthest we can go for evidence in terms of the character in Kingdom Hearts. He's only called "Hook" when it's obvious the viewer knows we're talking about CAPTAIN Hook.
  • Captain Barbossa -> Hector Barbossa...We're not the Disney Wiki. Our perspective is limited to Kingdom Hearts. The name "Hector" is never used in the game.

We make policies for a reason...to stick to them; we all make a pact to do so. Yeah, policies change, but only to be improved...not to be completely eliminated and replaced with something purely nonsensical. We agreed long ago to only refer to the characters as the games do (yes I know these exact words are not in the MoS...), and that's how I feel it should stay!

209.png
KrytenKoro - Click
TALK -
Okay, since you apparently did not read my previous post, I'll go ahead and do the work:
Captain Barbossa >> Hector Barbossa
Captain Hook >> Hook
      • "Captain Hook"[KH BbS]
      • "Hook"--ReCoM Ultimania
    • "A pirate in the service of Captain Hook."[KH BbS]
    • "Captain Hook's most feared enemy."[KH BbS]
    • "Just a few ticks of the clock he swallowed are enough to send Hook running for dear life."[KH BbS]
    • "A boy named Peter Pan was after the "light" that filled Captain Hook's treasure chest, so Terra agreed to escort Hook to a nearby cave and help keep the light safe."[KH BbS]
    • "But not long after Hook left to go search for a shooting star, Peter Pan appeared."[KH BbS]
    • "He and Terra dueled, but when the contents of the treasure chest came spilling out---revealing Hook's "light" to be nothing more than shiny medallions and jewels---Terra realized he'd been had. He told Peter Pan where Hook had gone, and the boy raced off at once to help Tinker Bell the pixie, who had gone looking for the same shooting star."[KH BbS]
    • "After he had dispatched the last of them, Captain Hook returned with a lantern."[KH BbS]
    • "Unaware Terra's allegiances had changed, Hook handed over the lantern."[KH BbS]
    • "Hook was furious---but fled the scene in terror when he heard the crocodile approach."[KH BbS]
    • "Tink was delighted to get her hands on the "shooting star," but Captain Hook showed up and nabbed Star Shard and pixie alike."[KH BbS]
    • "Ven found Peter Pan, and together they set off for Mermaid Lagoon, where they knew Captain Hook was lying in wait."[KH BbS]
    • "The cannon fire ceased, and Captain Hook gleefully assumed he had won. Om the contrary, Ven and the crocodile had both come for him. Defeated, Hook plummeted into the sea, screaming as the crocodile chased him off into the horizon."[KH BbS]
    • "They followed the map, swashbuckling with Peter Pan's archenemy Captain Hook along the way."[KH BbS]
    • "Captain Hook had headed them off and claimed it for himself."[KH BbS]
    • "Before Hook could retaliate, the crocodile approached."[KH BbS]
    • "Captain Hook tricked Terra into fighting him, but the misunderstanding was soon cleared up, and Peter flew off to save Tinker Bell."[KH BbS]
    • "After trying to nab his nemesis Captain Hook's pirate treasure and coming up empty-handed, he and the Lost Boys decided to fill the chest with their own treasures instead."[KH BbS]
    • "Terra saved her from the clutches of Captain Hook."[KH BbS]
    • "Ventus kept her company after she and Peter Pan had a fight, but then Captain Hook kidnapped her."[KH BbS]
    • "He, Peter, and Cubby were hoping to swipe Captain Hook's treasure."[KH BbS]
    • "He and Cubby were helping Tinker Bell look for a shooting star, but Peter talked them into going after Captain Hook's treasure instead."[KH BbS]
    • "Peter took him and Slightly to try and swipe Captain Hook's treasure."[KH BbS]
    • "Tinker Bell wanted him and Slightly to help her look for a shooting star, but they ended up going after Captain Hook's treasure with Peter instead."[KH BbS]
  • "Smee: Aye, aye, Captain Hook!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Well, no one outwits Captain Hook. That treasure is mine--mine, mine, mine! Now, get a move on, Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Peter Pan: Right then, Terra. Which way did Hook go?"[KH BbS]
  • "Lost Boys: Hook!"[KH BbS]
  • "Slightly: Hooray! We sure showed Hook this time!"[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: Well, guess who caught sight of Hook right when he was stashing his treasure? Whaddaya say we sneak in and grab it?"[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: Then I'm too late. Hooks gonna pay for this!"[KH BbS]
  • "Ven: Okay. I'll go after Hook!"[KH BbS]
  • "Ven: I wouldn't be so sure of that, Hook!"[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: Yup! The same chest I told ya about. We snatched it right from Hook's hiding place."[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: I'm busy right now, Hook. We're on an expatition. Can't I show you up some other day?"[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: Aw, that's just Captain Hook. He's a two-bit pirate codfish."[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: It's Hook!"[KH BbS]
  • "Cubby: Pan's real good at games! He makes everything lots of fun. Even fighting with Hook and those smelly pirates!"[KH BbS]
  • "Peter Pan: Hook never has any interesting treasure. Where's the fun in swiping the same old jewels and gold all the time?"[KH BbS]
Dr. Finkelstein >> Finkelstein
  • "Jack: I'm going to run over to Dr. Finkelstein's lab right now! This new idea is really going to wow him!"[KH Days]
Dr. Jumba >> Jumba Jookiba
    • "After neutralizing the threat, he met Dr. Jumba, creator of the most powerful being in the universe---so powerful, in fact, that he could even take on the Unversed. Unfortunately, this feat of "genius" had landed both Dr. Jumba and his creation, Experiment 626, in the slammer."[KH BbS]
    • "The second Dr. Jumba freed him, he lunged at Terra and grabbed his Wayfinder."[KH BbS]
    • "Before he could go after 626, Dr. Jumba unleashed another of his creations."[KH BbS]
    • "But when she learned the Grand Councilwoman was dealing with an infestation of Unversed, Aqua volunteered to exterminate them---and also search for two fugitives in the process: a "dangerous" creature called Experiment 626, and his creator, Dr. Jumba."[KH BbS]
    • "She found him again on the launch deck, squabbling with Dr. Jumba. Before she could take them into custody, 626 lunged at her and snatched the "Wayfinder" from her hands. It was a copy of Terra's good luck charm, Dr. Jumba explained, and Terra had been just as protective of his."[KH BbS]
    • "An alien created through illegal genetic experimentation by the self-proclaimed "evil genius" Dr. Jumba."[KH BbS]
    • "He escaped before his exile could be carried out, so Aqua was asked to apprehend him and Dr. Jumba."[KH BbS]
    • "Dr. Jumba made a brief escape, but is back in custody now."[KH BbS]
    • "Repeated failures to apprehend Experiment 626 and Dr. Jumba led her to appoint Aqua to the task."[KH BbS]
    • "An alien created by Dr. Jumba through genetic experimentation."[KH BbS]
    • "Now that both Experiment 626 and Dr. Jumba have escaped his custody, he is fighting just to hang on to his job."[KH BbS]
    • "Both Experiment 626 and Dr. Jumba Jookiba have escaped on his watch, throwing his suitability for the post into question."[KH BbS]
  • "Jumba: Experiment 626. Is name I give to adorable, fluffy creature you are helping for to rescue. And I am genius scientist who created him, Dr. Jumba Jookiba."[KH BbS]
  • "Gantu: Don't be dense. Dr. Jumba Jookiba's genetic abomination--626! Small? Blue? Vicious?"[KH BbS]
  • "Councilwoman: I think you'll find I can. We have a crisis. Jumba and 626 remain at large...and these monsters are obstructing attempts to apprehend them. Or did I mishear your latest excuse as to why you've again failed to carry out your duties, Captain? Will you help us?"[KH BbS]
  • "Aqua: You want me to capture Dr. Jumba and Experiment 626?"[KH BbS]
  • "Councilwoman: Dr. Jumba and Experiment 626 have been sighted. At that time, the two of them were wandering around the launch deck. Would you see that they're secured?"[KH BbS]
  • "Aqua: Hold it right there! Dr. Jumba, Experiment 626... I've been authorized to take you into custody."[KH BbS]
  • "Grand Councilwoman: Dr. Jumba and Experiment 626 are on the launch deck. I have released the door lock. Please hurry."[KH BbS]
King Triton >> Triton
Lady Tremaine >> Tremaine
    • "It wasn't long before he learned of Cinderella's plight: no matter how hard she worked, it was never good enough for her stepmother Lady Tremaine."[KH BbS]
    • "The negative vibe she got from a woman named Lady Tremaine eventually led Aqua to a chateau."[KH BbS]
    • "He was inside the chateau, fighting to free Cinderella, whom Lady Tremaine had locked in the attic."[KH BbS]
    • "The Grand Duke saw it did not fit Lady Tremaine's two daughters, and was content to move on to the next residence---but then Cinderella appeared."[KH BbS]
    • "Lady Tremaine was furious."[KH BbS]
    • "Cinderella was devastated when Lady Tremaine and her daughters tore apart her dress for the ball, but was soon visited by her Fairy Godmother, who used magic to provide her a coach and a new dress."[KH BbS]
    • "Lady Tremaine and her daughters seem determined to make her life a misery, but Cinderella endures it with grace."[KH BbS]
    • "His heroic efforts helped free Cinderella after Lady Tremaine locked her in the attic."[KH BbS]
    • "Lady Tremaine's bully of a cat."[KH BbS]
    • "Lady Tremaine's daughter."[KH BbS]
    • "Unversed come from negativity---this one from Lady Tremaine and her daughters' jealousy as they watched Cinderella quite literally have a ball with the Prince."[KH BbS]
    • "Unversed come from negativity---in this case, that of Lady Tremaine and her two daughters."[KH BbS]
  • "Grand Duke: Oh, er, if I recall correctly, that is Lady Tremaine and those are her daughters."[KH BbS]
  • "Grand Duke: Of course, Your Highness. After all, you have finally found someone whom you wish to marry. Upon hearing that happy news, your father, the king, has decreed that a quest shall begin immediately throughout the kingdom. And I will start with the closest residence--that of Lady Tremaine."[KH BbS]
  • "Aqua: Lady Tremaine... I had better pay her a visit."[KH BbS]
  • "Fairy Godmother: Strong rays of sun create dark shadows. Sadly, Lady Tremaine and both her daughters are jealous of Cinderella's charm and beauty, qualities that appear to you as "light." Jealousy is darkness. Light and dark go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other."[KH BbS]
Master Eraqus >> Eraqus
    • "Terra, an aspiring Keyblade Master, had been training diligently under Master Eraqus along with his best friends Aqua and Ventus (whom they called Ven)."[KH BbS]
    • "Soon after, Eraqus received word from the great sorcerer Yen Sid that the princesses of heart were in danger from a new menace called the "Unversed.""[KH BbS]
    • "Ashamed by the stultified state he had left Ventus in, Xehanort chose to leave the boy in Master Eraqus's care."[KH BbS]
    • "Realizing she had been sent by Master Eraqus to spy on him, Terra stormed off, shocked and hurt."[KH BbS]
    • "Master Xehanort summoned Terra to the badlands to warn him that Ventus had learned the secrets of his past and was on his way to force the truth out of Master Eraqus."[KH BbS]
    • "The first thing Terra saw upon returning to his beloved home was Master Eraqus attacking Ven."[KH BbS]
    • "Pushed to the limit, Terra released the powers of darkness inside him, enraging Eraqus."[KH BbS]
    • "Then he and Eraqus clashed, fighting until they both hardly had the strength to stand."[KH BbS]
    • "He stepped closer to his Master to beg forgiveness, but Eraqus slumped forward and faded away, leaving only his Keyblade behind."[KH BbS]
    • "Aqua appeared and questioned him about Master Eraqus's demise."[KH BbS]
    • "Ventus, a Keyblade wielder, had been training diligently under Master Eraqus along with his best friends Terra and Aqua."[KH BbS]
    • "But Terra, Master Eraqus decided, was not ready for the same honor."[KH BbS]
    • "Yen Sid knew Ven had left home without Master Eraqus's permission, but let the matter rest; his own apprentice Mickey was never one to follow directions either."[KH BbS]
    • "Master Eraqus feared this, which was why he had kept Ven from leaving home."[KH BbS]
    • "Ven was greeted by Master Eraqus, and immediately confronted him about the x-blade. The very mention of the name confirmed Eraqus's worst fears, that Xehanort had not truly abandoned his old ambitions."[KH BbS]
    • "Master Eraqus tried to stop him, but his face was scarred by the wave of darkness Xehanort unleashed."[KH BbS]
    • "Unwilling to repeat this failure, Eraqus prepared to imprison Ven and prevent Xehanort's ambitions from being achieved."[KH BbS]
    • "Years before, Master Xehanort had tried to draw the darkness out of Ven, intending to pit the boy against one of Master Eraqus's students of light and create the x-blade."[KH BbS]
    • "Aqua, an aspiring Keyblade Master, had been training diligently under Master Eraqus along with her best friends Terra and Ventus (whom they called Ven)."[KH BbS]
    • "Master Eraqus ordered her to bring him back, and she raced off to try and catch him."[KH BbS]
    • "But when she took him to the sorcerer's tower, she was greeted with shocking news: Master Eraqus had met his demise at the hands of Master Xehanort...and Terra."[KH BbS]
    • "Aqua did as the late Master Eraqus had instructed her, activating a certain "trick" devised to protect their land from being used for evil purposes."[KH BbS]
    • "One of Master Eraqus's pupils."[KH BbS]
    • "Haunted by the masked boy's warnings about Terra, Ven defied Master Eraqus, ran away from home, and set off for the outside world to find his friend."[KH BbS]
    • "The only one of Master Eraqus's pupils to have been recognized as a true Keyblade Master."[KH BbS]
    • "One of the true Keyblade Masters, and a longtime acquaintance of Master Eraqus."[KH BbS]
    • "Unlike Master Eraqus, Xehanort believes darkness need not be rejected if it can be controlled."[KH BbS]
    • "Yen Sid was the first to detect something amiss with the worlds, and alerted Master Eraqus as soon as he could."[KH BbS]
    • "It was also he who delivered to Aqua the news of Master Eraqus's demise at the hands of Terra and Master Xehanort."[KH BbS]
  • "Xehanort: And yet...how frustrating that Eraqus refutes its power. Why, you could train with him forever and still... you'd never be a Master in his eyes."[KH BbS]
  • "Terra: (The boy in the mask who was leading the Unversed... Who is he? Does he have anything to do with Master Xehanort's disappearance? Master Eraqus said he first received word of these events from Master Yen Sid. Maybe it's time I went and spoke with him myself.)"[KH BbS]
  • "Yen Sid: Yes. Eraqus's pupil. I've been expecting you. It is the Unversed."[KH BbS]
  • "Xehanort: It was an accident. While training with me, Ventus succumbed to darkness, and there was but one way to save him--strip that part of him away. And thus Vanitas was made. In the process, I damaged Ventus's heart in the most horrific way. So I did what I felt was right, and left him with Eraqus. I knew the boy could not stay with me, the man who did him such grievous harm."[KH BbS]
  • "Xehanort: Never mind me! You must fight! You can't let this ruffian win. Think of your Master, Eraqus--the shame he and your fellow pupils would be force to bear! Use the Keyblade."[KH BbS]
  • "Xehanort: Master Eraqus, you see, is so afraid of darkness, that he too, has succumbed--not to darkness, but to light. It shines so bright, he forgets that light begets darkness. And Aqua and Ventus, their lights shine too bright. It is only natural that they cast shadows on your heart. Eraqus... He is such a fool! Light and darkness, they are a balance--one that must always be maintained. Terra...you are the one who shows the true Mark of Mastery, but he refuses to see it. And I know why. It is because he fears you. Join me. You and I can do the worlds much greater good, by wielding light and darkness in equal shares."[KH BbS]
  • "Xehanort: Ventus is on his way home. If you could have seen the fury in his eyes... I'm certain he's capable of anything. I fear the boy may attempt to force the truth out of Eraqus. Master Terra, you must hurry back and see to your friend's safety."[KH BbS]
  • "Terra: Master Eraqus!"[KH BbS]
  • "Terra: You will pay, Xehanort! Was my Master--no, my father, Eraqus not enough for you? Leave my friends alone!"[KH BbS]
  • "My brother pupil Eraqus thinks only in absolutes."[KH BbS]
  • "Eraqus and I did not see eye to eye."[KH BbS]
  • "Of course, since I needed a place where the boy's light might flourish, the answer was obvious: Eraqus, and his absolutes."[KH BbS]
  • "Considering how we had parted ways, I expected friction—but if anything, Eraqus seemed delighted to see me again."[KH BbS]
  • "I had not visited this second home of mine for some time, and discovered Eraqus had already found two pupils of his own."[KH BbS]
  • "I have received word from Eraqus that his pupils are to become true Keyblade Masters."[KH BbS]
Mr. Smee >> Smee
    • "Blunderer and blockhead he may be, but Smee never abandons his captain."[KH BbS]
  • "Captain Hook: Faster, Smee! Put your back into it!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Enough blabbering, Mr. Smee! Get that shovel digging!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Gah! More Heartless!? Run, Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Set a course, Mr. Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Stop whining, Smee, and think! Why were there so many maps? I'll tell you why. Whoever buried the treasure made fake maps to lead me astray and protect the real hiding spot!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: To wherever the next map says the treasure is! I'm not giving up till I've struck gold! You'll find me that treasure, Smee, even if it means digging up every inch of this island!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: I've finally clipped your pestering little wings, eh, Tinker Bell? Serves you right for buzzing about in me business! Planning to interfere with me treasure hunt, were you? Well, change of plans! Smee! We're returning to the ship."[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: What is it now, Smee?"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Set a course, Mr. Smee! Take us to the next treasure spot!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Well, no one outwits Captain Hook. That treasure is mine--mine, mine, mine! Now, get a move on, Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Hmph. Let her get acquainted with her new home--that lamp. Look lively, Mr. Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Keep digging, Mr. Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: This one looks formidable. Run, Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Well, Mr. Smee? This is the last spot. Me treasure MUST be here."[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Good work, Smee! Oh, the lengths I've gone to find this treasure!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Blasted Heartless--still insisting on getting in me way! You know what to do, Smee. Run!"[KH Days]
  • "Captain Hook: Faster, Smee!"[KH Days]
  • "Hook: If I'd desired your assistance, I'd have demanded it. We had the situation under control. Isn't that right, Smee?"[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: Smee! Ye blithering barnacle! We're off. We shall leave this place before the light draws 'em back again."[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: Mister Smee, I ordered ye to drop that. I'll not have ya gushin' on about some shooting star."[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: Help me, Smee! Smeeeeee!"[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: I'll cleave you into two bits, boy! Smee!"[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: Smee, secure me treasure."[KH BbS]
  • "Hook: Not you again! No, get away from me! Smee! Do something! Smee!"[KH BbS]
Mrs. Potts >> Potts
  • "Cogsworth: Hmm... I wonder if it has anything to do with that stranger Mrs. Potts spotted in the castle."[KH Days]
Prince Charming >> Charming
    • "She caught Prince Charming's eye at the ball, but had to flee the palace at the stroke of twelve, before the magic wore off."[KH BbS]
    • "A man who, at the king's insistence, is trying to help Prince Charming find a bride."[KH BbS]
Prince Eric >> Eric
Prince Phillip >> Phillip
    • "Aqua turned to face Maleficent, but had walked right into a trap; she was sent plummeting into the dungeon below, and there she met Prince Phillip."[KH BbS]
    • "A fierce fight ensued, but the three good fairies cast an enchantment on Phillip's sword, which flew, swift and sure, into the dragon's heart."[KH BbS]
    • "Phillip walked up to Aurora's bedside."[KH BbS]
    • "Prince Phillip woke her, however, with true love's kiss."[KH BbS]
    • "The green flames that leapt from her maw nearly spelled the end for Prince Phillip and Aqua, but in the end, Phillip's sword of truth flew swift and sure."[KH BbS]
  • "Flora: Oh, Prince Phillip! It's you!"[KH BbS]
  • "Flora: Now, Phillip. The road to true love may be barred by many more dangers which you alone will have to face."[KH BbS]
Leon >> Squall Leonhart
    • "Later, Leon would fight against the forces of darkness more than once, but thanks to Sora, he can now focus on rebuilding his home."[KH Re:coded]
      1. He no longer uses his real name, a symbolic farewell to the little boy who was not strong enough.[KH Re:coded]
Cloud > Cloud Strife
    • "Believing himself weak, Cloud sought out the secrets of a hero's strength, as well as the secrets darkness might hold. Hades tried to use these desires against him, but once Cloud realized he was being manipulated, he wisely joined forces with Sora and Hercules."[KH Re:coded]
    • "With the Coliseum a tangle of bugs and Cloud a tangle of emotional issues, he ought to have found a way, but Sora showed up just in time to show HIM up, and prove once again that sliminess doesn't pay."[KH Re:coded]
    • "His first idea: sweet-talking a swordsman named Cloud into striking Sora and Hercules down. His second idea: betraying Cloud, by taking a potshot at all three of them while they were distracted. Understandably displeased, Cloud decided to cast his lot with Sora and Hercules instead."[KH Re:coded]
  • "Cloud."[KH Re:coded]
  • "Hey, isn't that... Cloud!"[KH Re:coded]
  • "But Cloud!"[KH Re:coded]
  • "Cloud probably knew we'd try to help him, and lured them away."[KH Re:coded]
  • "Ugh, that's Cloud."[KH Re:coded]
  • "Cloud, wait."[KH Re:coded]
  • "Hey, where's Cloud?"[KH Re:coded]

"It is my personal opinion that we go with what the journal entries call the respective characters and just leave the bloody articles ALONE for once instead of drastically overthinking things"

  • As I said, the journal entries, ultimanias, etc., are not consistent, and we already ignore them for stuff like Experiment 626 or Mickey Mouse (instead of calling him "The King" or "King Mickey". "Following academic MoS when the scripts allow it" is not "throwing out the policy".

By the way, my username is one word, KrytenKoro. It's not a first name and a last name, it's one word.


SoraHalloweenTalk.png
UxieLover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! — 03:44, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
710MS.png I agree with EternalNothingness. I'm known as UxieLover1994, but most people around here (and on other wikis) refer to me as Uxie. Changing the articles names, especially with Leon's, will just confuse people. Yes, they do it on some wikis, but that's because they follow the "articles for everything" rule (everything as in there is also articles for those who don't need it such as Input/Outpot (IO) Tower, Santa's House, Tremaine Manor, even Cortéz), and our wiki's not like that. Some of these names don't even make sence, particually with Belle.
209.png
KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT."
TALK -
"I'm known as UxieLover1994, but most people around here (and on other wikis) refer to me as Uxie."
  • Irrelevant. Stay on topic, guys.

"our wiki's not like that."

  • Yes, it absolutely is. I'm appalled that this is still a point of confusion, I've been trying to hammer this point in for years.
Spr_3r_000.png
UxieLover1994 Nya? — 04:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
678FMS.png Well if it is, why arn't there any articles on characters such as Kiara or Bootstrap, or articles on each area in a world? In fact, if we were like what I said, then the Gullwings would be seperated into Yuna, Rikku, Paine. Plus there would be articles on Sora's parents. If you want to do this, then don't forget to make this wiki in past tence, since your ideals seem to be heading towards the Sci-Fi wiki style. If that happens, UxieLover1994 will be out of here for good. Ignore this, please.
209.png
KrytenKoro - "An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on."
TALK -
Jeezus, Uxie, enough with pulling accusations out of your rear and making pointless ultimatums.

The Gullwings article covers everything about those characters, and there are redirects pointing to them. "Articles for everything" is not the same as "every possible thing gets a separate page".

That Bootstrap and Kiara currently redirect to a character gallery is unfortunate (there should be at least something summarizing their role), but they still have working redirects. Furthermore, it's ludicrous to say "because the wiki is not currently perfected, it's not allowed to be perfected".

In any case; whether we stick to the current policy (which is very poorly and unevenly enforced) or go with the new one, Dr. Jumba's article needs to be moved, as "Jookiba" is in both the script and journal entry. As for Barbossa, the article's lead currently says "Hector Barbossa", so if that's wrong it needs to be burned with fire.


KieraTalk.png
UxieLover1994 Cuando la vida te da las herramientas, a construir motos libración — 10:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
480MS.png So sorry for annoying you. I thought that you were to go against the journal. Yeah, the policy needs to be updated (Por lo menos para asegurarse de que todo lo relacionado con la selva profunda, pero los enemigos y el trío están en tiempo pasado) to suit with the new form articles and, of course, the new style we're going through.

As for Barbossa, I suggest on changing it to just Barbossa, or Captain Barbossa as per his journal entry.

XMbQaeM.png
ShardofTruth Once you believe, truth and lie are quite the same thing. — 21:12, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Game Clear Data KHRECOM.png I agree that the titles can be quite confusing sometimes, especially Mickey's. But I don't think a simple ruleset (drop royality, master and captain, keep the mr./mrs./dr.) will work out in every case. I think going by the latest journal entry's title is the best idea, although we might have to move some articles every new game then. Also is "Charming" really a name? I always thought it was a description.


sho12.png
Item_2383.png AS IF! Item_2383.png The world is garbage! CRUNCH!
I think the problem with this argument is that each title holds a different meaning for this subject, meaning that it isn't reasonable to make one rule about titles and have it apply for every article. For example, while I think that pages for Aqua and Riku aren't in need of the "Master" title in their titles, keeping the "Master" title in Master Xehanort's article would alleviate much confusion for other users. A person could search for "Xehanort" and be directed to the page about Master Xehanort instead of Terra-Xehanort, the one they are looking for. This is an issue that needs to be looked at for every article separately from each other, because if we did make rules, we would have to build in so many exceptions that having them would be pointless.

I also propose that we set a time limit as to how long discussion we have about each article, assuming there is disagreement between users. Seriously, the debate about Terra-Xehanort was ridiculous- some people are still unhappy with the chosen name. (Note that this is NOT an invitation to begin that debate again). I propose a seven-day maximum discussion and voting session per each article. I also think that the end time needs to be clearly written- there was confusion with the voting for Terra-Xehanort, because people didn't know when the voting period ended.

I know that this seems a little bit too much, but keep in mind that we won't necessarily have to do this for every article if there is no discussion- or if a compromise can be reached. It's not a perfect solution, but at this point I think it's the only one that's feasible for this type of situation.

On a related note, could we somehow add these titles to the "Other Names" section of the character template for each? I don't think it will be necessary for every article, but for pages like Mickey's (Mickey Mouse, King Mickey, Master Mickey, etc.) it might be a good way to compromise on this issue- keep the title out of the article name and use it in the template instead.

Thoughts?


DaysXionTalk.png
OPXion4EverIcon.png Easy, guys and gals. Easy.

@Shard: Charming is normally used as an adjective/verb. However, some older fairytales and/or stories have used charming as a name. I suppose they were saying "Prince is charming." Instead of saying "Prince Albert was very charming." Or something like that. Perhaps "This Prince is Charming" instead of saying "Prince so-and-so is charming" every time?

Personally, I would like to follow the names the recent journal entries give us. And- well, pretty much what Shard and Asif said about that.

I disagree though on the time limit idea. Not that I disagree that some [previously closed/settled] discussions should be reopened (no reference, by the way...seriously). It's just that I personally don't like a constriction or set time for users to discuss/debate/rally support, and all that jazz. There is, or was, a general unwritten rule that a lot of users used to know and follow about discussions: if it's a couple of weeks old since the last post, chances are the discussion is closed and shouldn't be edited. Simply put, this is a Wiki. We have new users, ideas, and the like throughout each day. To deny someone their right to input on a discussion just because they missed the alotted discussion time is...well, rather wrong. As for voting: a formal voting process isn't needed for every discussion. Sometimes a discussion is as easy as one or two people saying "Yes, I think we should do what <user> proposed." There is new input and answers to a discussion one day, and some lacking the next. A set timelimit is a nice proposition, but one I feel will be more tedious and troubling than properly handing a discussion and, should it occur, a rediscussion. Similar to what happened on Terra-Xehanort's talk page. The topic was reopened, discussion was held again, the previous decision stands. Everyone had their input, outside of a time limit, and everything worked out. No elaborate posting of voting periods/polls (don't use polls, at least not the old coding- not going into that), users upset because they couldn't have their say because they were grounded from the computer for a week, and all that.

Xion4ever Promise... — 05:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
209.png
KrytenKoro - This is the song that runs under the credits; these are the credits, so this is where it goes. 'has nothing to do with the movie so we'll say, "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey hey hey hey!"
TALK -
For other names: the "Alias" parameter in the infobox should be used for that purpose. They can also appear in the lead.

For Xehanort: when I merged, I dropped "Master" after asking the people present in the IRC, because obviously the young form isn't a Keyblade Master. We also have numerous people just calling him Xehanort, like Yen Sid or sometimes Nomura. Obviously, I don't think it will be possible to go by the latest journal entry for him (Unknown/Master Xehanort or Young Xehanort/Master Xehanort?) and except for Eraqus, every other single Keyblade Master's article does not have that title. The issue is, as always, open for discussion, but I think it would be quite irregular and confusing to be calling the article "Master Xehanort" and then trying to set a dichotomy between the Master and Young forms within the article. Again, open for discussion (on that talk page).

As for this forum: We still have three games to check for sources. It seems like ENX is suggesting "use the name of the latest English journal entry" for each character, which is acceptable, although it will cause us to move articles each time a new game comes out. On the other hand, my suggestion would make them more stable, but requires more of our own decision-making and a touch of arbitrariness. This probably will need to be settled with a vote once we have all the quote mining done (it would be helpful if somebody could help maggosh with that).