Forum:Staff Reorganization and the Goblet of...wait

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Staff Reorganization and the Goblet of...wait

KrytenKoro - Click TALK - As most of you probably know, eight of our admins are inactive, as well as one of our mods. DTN, Neumannz, TNE, Azul81677, and I thought it might be a good idea to ask the inactive/retired staff if they would like to be moved off of the active staff list, possibly creating openings for new admins. So far, we have been able to contact everyone but Riku5464 and Urutapu. Azul81677 has fully retired, so we have at least one opening as of now. This does not mean that he or any other retired editors will lose their powers - merely that they will no longer be listed as active staff. However, we don't want to start elections until we know exactly what the situation is - as of now, the plan is still to hold elections in August in preparation for BBS. If we end up having enough space for new admins, we'll probably start some elections then, and try to maintain a set base of active admins. We also thought it would be a good idea to have BebopKate promoted to Bureaucrat, since all of our current Bureaucrat's aren't invested in the community, and are difficult to contact. We need your approval on this, though. Finally, KKD and LegoAlchemist had suggested merit badges, of a sort, and Auror, SilverCrono, and TheInexistent had been discussing a Featured User setup. I think that it might be a good idea to treat this as a sort of "Employee of the Month", where the community nominates the most respected editors, and the staff will go through their edits and make a decision. To prevent favoritism or drudgery, staff would not be eligible, and we probably wouldn't do repeats.

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. TO reply directly, Yeah, I agree. I've thought about this for a while now myself. Sounds good. You have my approval ^_^ Oh, okay. To be honest, I don't really care much for the merit badge idea anymore, but my former points on how it could motivate still stand ^_^ As for the featured user set up, I like it ^_^

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had? To shamelessly immitate LegoAlchemist, I agree, it's been a long time coming methinks. Sounds good. Absolutely. Sounds good, nice way to make everyone want to contribute and feel good for doing so.

SilverCrono Well, I can tell who you are. — "Looks like you're prepared." "What is with you and picking up stray puppies?" — 07:38, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Okay, reply. Yeah, inactive staff just take up space. Active admins are good admins. I guess adding mods > admins and users > mods would work. She deserves it. FU sounds good, but.. I didn't discuss it. Just said I would support it if it happened.

Dan - Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase! ♫ — 08:36, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Alright, my brief two cents: I think removing the inactive staff from the Organization mugshot table would be a good idea, but perhaps we should mention them somewhere on the page? Sounds good, we're going to get a lot of new BBS information along with a few vandals which will need to be dealt with. Great idea, she'd make a wonderful Bureaucrat. I like this idea. =D

LevL Fear my mighty instruments! — 08:40, July 22, 2010 (UTC) My reply: Sounds like a good idea. I agree. You have my approval. That might encourage users to make better contributions, so I like the idea.

UxieLover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! — 09:00, July 22, 2010 (UTC) I'm an admin of the Spyro wiki, and many of our admins are retired. So, I guess you guys have a good idea after all. As they say: A good idea is a good idea. That's a good way to help further promote this wiki, like I am with the Spyro wiki.

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?" TALK - Re:Dan - Yes, the current plan is to have a list of "retired staff".

Yuan Salve! — 10:03, July 22, 2010 (UTC) "Days that I have held, days that I have lost / days that outgrow, like daughters, my harbouring arms" Supporting all the staff suggestions. We tried a similar idea to Featured User over on the FF wiki once, but it fizzled out due to lack of interest. To prevent that and highlight the user's achievements, it would be good to write a short piece for each user in the Trinity Report.

Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Firstly, I have not read Staff Reorganization and the Prisoner of... wait, what's going on? Now, down to business. Yeah, the retired staff members should be moved to the inactive list, since, well, their inactive. yes, staff elections should not occur until August. Hell yes. She deserves it. I always thought we needed a super admin active in the regular community. I like this. It's will hopefully be a good motivator to editors. -10:46, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Bluer says at 12:39, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Reorganization does seem prudent, kupo I'm tired of another staff election, kupo... the change seem to happen thrice every year. Is the wiki unstable, kupo? She deserves it, I agree, kupo, but the only difference between bureaucrats and sysops are the ability to create sysops. Is that necessary, kupo, considering I've done my responsibility every staff election? Cute. Reminds me of barnstars,

KrytenKoro - "Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." TALK - In regards to needing the admins to be more active, we have gigantic backlogs of misnamed images, articles for deletion, etc. I've personally had to take a very hardline stance on deletion in order to keep the deletion list from getting too gigantic, and if we had more admins to be monitoring these and handling them, we'd be able to cover them more on the discussion page. There's also the misnamed images, which you need admin privileges to move without leaving a redirect. As it is, I've spent 90% of my summer doing admin tasks and patrolling recent changes, and that simply isn't fair to me. As for BebopKate, I definitely feel that even though this plan should make admin elections (and thus the need for bureaucrats) much less frequent, the bureaucrat in charge of the wiki should be someone who is deeply involved in it. Right now, all of the staff with bureaucrat powers are either retired, or only edit when absolutely necessary.

Bluer says at 13:37, July 22, 2010 (UTC) So the reason for a sysop election is a backlog of maintenance, kupo? The recently chosen administrators, kupo, couldn't we summon the current sysops to take a look at it; contacting them on their discussion page and make them be aware of the backlog, kupo. That should have been the way to tackle the issue, kupo, instead of proposing an admin election every three months. I've been thinking about it, kupo, and I do believe we could increase the capability of our moderators in the case of renaming files without redirects, kupo. If the community is interested we can get our moderators with a bit more capability than just rollbacking, kupo. FFWiki has this for their moderators, I think this should be a good way to tackle that issue, kupo. As for being deeply involved, kupo, please be reminded that BebopKate, all other users and even myself have a real life outside of this wiki, kupo. Taking the wiki too seriously is one of the common mistakes a wiki user does, kupo, and I've seen instances where this happens... too commonly,

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura. TALK - That's the problem, though - the current admins are already very busy as it is, with their current projects and with real life, and there remains a huge backlog. As for being involved - the other bureaucrats haven't edited in several years, and Bluerfn, you haven't performed a mainspace edit since the first of March. Again, I feel that we should have at least one bureaucrat who is active on the wiki itself (But that's my personal reason for supporting Bebop's promotion).

Bluer says at 14:36, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Thank you for the reminder, kupo. Personally I have good faith that the users are doing a good job in the mainspace, which is why I abstained. Of course, if you want my presence in the mainspace known, it can be arranged, kupo. As for the backlog issue, kupo, I am seriously contemplating additional rights, usually held by administrators, to be granted to our moderators, kupo. As with the FFWiki, this entails: Ability to rollback to previous edits; already applied. Ability to move pages and suppress redirects - move a page without leaving a redirect. Ability to move pages without a rate limit; i.e, move an unlimited amount of pages within any time interval Ability to move files and suppress redirects - renaming a file without leaving a redirect. Should I ask Wikia to grant these additional capabilities to our moderators, kupo? Comments, especially by non-staff, is greatly appreciated,

Dan - Hakuna Matata! What a wonderful phrase! ♫ — 14:43, July 22, 2010 (UTC) I strongly support the addition of these rights, as there are hundreds of files, notably TCG card images that need moving as soon as possible. Kryten's done a great job with the Cardspace, and I reckon we could develop it further if he had a few extra hands to help.

KrytenKoro - "Space Corp Directive 195—In an emergency power situation, a hologrammatic crew member must lay down his life in order that the living crew members might survive."  "Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly: 'No chance, you metal bastard.'" TALK - The rights you're listing (along with the also-needed deletion) are the main tools of the admin, though. The other tools, such as blocking, are only infrequently needed. As long as we all agree that we need more editors with these powers, I think the simplest and best solution is to just elect more admins.

I agree with everything KK proposed and with Bluer ideas of more rights for mods. Demonic Saint Yeah, we gotta go help our friends out first. — 16:53, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 17:30, July 22, 2010 (UTC) I oppose the suggestion of granting these rights to moderators. KrytenKoro states my main point in saying that these are the main tools of an administrator. If we give these abilities to moderators, there will hardly be any difference between admins and moderators, just mainly banning and deleting. If we make the abilities of our entire staff more homogeneous, the position of the administrator is weakened, and the users who are already complaining that the staff "rules the wiki" shall have one more thing to complain about, since since we are giving what used to be just "glorified editors" many extra administrative functions. On the contrary, I fully support the addition of several new admins.

Bluer says at 18:42, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Let me point out some corrections, kupo, so that you might want to reflect on them. A sysop isn't above any other regular user, kupo. Sure they have these neat tools, but that's not a sign of position. In fact, it's a sign of trust, kupo. The tools to move, protect and delete pages are there to aid users - for example, in an event of a mistaken upload or mistaken naming. They are used solely to help users collaborate in writing good articles, kupo. And a sysop should all in all assist other users and editors when they write these articles, kupo. If they see a mistake done by a user, they must act in good faith, help fix the mistake and teach them the working methods of wikiediting, kupo; not a warning, a block or a ban. If the latter happens, it's no wonder that the only edits are done by sysops. In short, the perception that those with sysop tools are of a higher position than normal users shouldn't have occurred, kupo. Terms such as "ruling the wiki" and "glorified editor" shouldn't have been raised if a sysop acted in good faith in the first place, kupo. Electing more admins, thus far, isn't a viable solution, kupo. What should be done is to revise the roster of the current administration. I've discussed with the more experienced and long-serving editors on this, and we will hopefully reach a consensus in the matter,

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!" TALK - How about this then? So far, there has been total, unanimous support (minus yourself) for electing more admins, and promoting BK to bureaucrat. It is clearly the community's consensus - can we now go ahead with it?

Bluer says at 05:12, July 23, 2010 (UTC) Please be patient, kupo, the discussion is only a day old, and only a select few from the community has given their opinions, kupo. If the community is aware of this and as engaged as I'm told, we'll have enough input for a consensus,

BebopKate - This one is Zazzles...because he's Zazzy! TALK - Here's your cat...and here's your $20...20:22, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Whew. I'm back, I'm back. Narnia is a strange and odd world...wait, wrong book. -_- Well, let's hit these point by point... 1. I've kind of wondered why we hadn't moved the inactive admins for ages now, but I am not one to question these things, as it doesn't seem to be a life-threatening issue. 2. More admins...I think that would be fine, but I want to make a suggestion: staff training. All staff members, old and new, including myself. Hear me out for a second. Speaking from some personal experience, and some that's been relayed to me from others: when you become a staff member on a wiki, it can get very overwhelming very quickly. So many new functions to use, so many people bugging you with problems seeking your assistance, you've done this thing someone asked for but now it's made three people mad at you, there's an edit war here and a talk page squabble there, and...AAAAA! I confess there are tools I'm still not sure about, and there have been situations where there could have been better responses. I just think it would be nice to help all of us to figure out what's the small stuff (well, speaking relatively), what to really worry about, and how to handle someone who's editing poorly versus an honest-to-diety-of-your-choice troll. It's just an idea; it would probably be a wiki sub-page as I can't see us finding time to be in IRC at once, but I think it would help all of us get a handle on our roles and where we need help covering our weaknesses. Let's see...where was I? Ah... 3. I'm very flattered, honestly. I don't think there's much more to it than I'm already doing, as Bluer pointed out, but then again it might be nice for Bluer not to have us bug him every six months or so with staff requests. ^_^ 4. I'm not sure about the Featured User, mostly because it seems very hard for all but the largest wikis to carry off. We have a sizable group of editors here, but nowhere near the numbers of, say, Memory Alpha or Uncycopedia. But I do like the merit badge ideas. It would be a nice motivator, especially considering we already collect userboxes like magpies collect shiny stuff... ^_-

LegoAlchemist - They changed "Snipe Magnet" to "Magnet Grab"? Who's translating this game, 4kids? TALK - Friendships are in direct contravention of mercenary conduct as delineated in your contracts, and on a personal note: I am very, very, disappointed with you. Hey there, Kate. Regarding the inactive ops, why not, instead of de-opping them, just have a new section on the Staff page reserved for them? They could be under "Inactive ops" (:P) The imaes used for their boxes could be sleeping charcters from the awakening. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I agree with the Featured User thing. First of all, who's to decide this? We can't have a community vote, because that could hurt feelings. Maybe a "council of users", but this could lead to arguments. Just putting that out there. As for staff trainging, another good idea.

Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Did anybody ever say the inactive staff would eb de-opped? Also, on the subject of featured users and merit badges, I thought the staff would decide, meaning we can't be nominated for such an honour. -10:22, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "It's always best when the other chap is willing to die for his beliefs; you both have the same goal in mind." TALK - There will be no de-opping. All we would be doing is moving them off the list on the Staff page, so that people looking for someone to ask will not be confused. Also, so that we know how many spaces we can fill. Staff training is an awesome idea. The featured user would probably be decided the same way we do staff elections - community selects those who they think are the most helpful, and the staff go through all of their edits.

The Inexistent - Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information. The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!! TALK - And on the Wiki these words appear: "My name is The_Inexistent, user of users: Look upon my edits, ye Mighty, and despair!" Well, I am kinda going off the course this conversation has taken, but, for the retired members, could we do sort of a "Proof of Existence" type image? I would be willing to make it, but I'm not exactly sure how... As for the featured user, I did make this template as an alternate option, (@LA) so as not to have fighting, although I nominated for deletion a few weeks ago.

KrytenKoro - And when you see me standing there, you'll know you've got a friend with a rock, I mean a big-ass rock. TALK - So, it's been a full week. Can we now promote BK?

The Inexistent - Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information. The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!! TALK - And on the Wiki these words appear: "My name is The_Inexistent, user of users: Look upon my edits, ye Mighty, and despair!" I think so, Bluer?

Post-Giving BebopKate Bureaucracy

KrytenKoro - Pinocchio with his nose attached to the trigger of a rifle, which points at his face as he says, "I want to live!" TALK - Woo! Okay, that's one part of this down. Currently, HeckoX, Hexed, and Azul have retired. Ultima and Bluerfn have said they definitely don't want to retire. I still haven't gotten any word back from XienZo, Riku, Scottch, NeloAngelo, or Urutapu. If anyone knows of any reliable way to contact them, please do.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - Ven, Aqua... I'll find some way to make things right. TALK - This light... it's so warm. — 15:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC) I unfortunately don't know a way to contact them. But I am curious about something... now that BebopKate has been premototed, are we to discuss and later decide upon the rest of this forum's topics? I haven't been paying attention to this Forum's recent changes, but I believe we decided to do staff re-elections to replace those of us who are inactive as of now in August?

KrytenKoro - Click TALK - If we get enough space. Right now, we only have three confirmed openings, so we'd probably move the current mods up and elect some more.

The Inexistent - Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information. The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!! TALK - And on the Wiki these words appear: "My name is The_Inexistent, user of users: Look upon my edits, ye Mighty, and despair!" If we were to continue with said plan of action, the logical choice for replacements would start by TNE becoming an admin and ENX replacing her as a mod.

NinjaSheik - All of this might have started with a lie...But I'm really am glad that I could meet you... TALK - One day, the light-it will be ours, and it will bring us together. Til then, I'll be in your heart... I agree.

Eternal Nothingness XIII - You have to be strong. Strength of heart will carry you through the hardest of trials. TALK - What I do, I do for friendship. — 23:33, July 30, 2010 (UTC) I don't feel that recently elected staff such as Xion4ever and Neumannz should be given adminship rights right away. The last election was only a few months ago, and they are not as active as they could be. I fully agree with TNE becoming an admin, however.

maggosh Nothing can destroy the Doctor! — "The Doctor doesn't pay, and he doesn't worry." "If you want trouble - *breaks windshield* - then you just keep coming on!" I will have to agree with The Inexistent. TNE deserves adminship, and ENX at least should be a mod.

DoorToNothing — I dreamed last night... I got on the boat to Heaven! And by some chance, I had brought my dice along! — 00:57, July 31, 2010 (UTC) BAND, HALT! (ONE, TWO.) Okay, before we start saying "Make User X a mod and not User Y," I want to say that we shouldn't open slots for new mods/admins if we get no reply, because I don't want to assume their answer to be "no". Just like we do on this wiki by assuming good faith, and in our IRC policy, I want to give XienZo, Riku, Scottch, NeloAngelo, and Urutapu the benefit of the doubt and allow them to keep their current status. It is very important to me that we do not assume inactivity of an admin/mod simply because they have not edited in a long time or have not replied to the e-mail. Those users did an incredible amount of work to achieve their current status, the least we can do is continue to recognize them for it on the staff page in full. And now, I would like to make a special request that I have spoken to KrytenKoro about, and that is promoting one user directly from an average user up to a sysop. This user has done work for the wiki we never thought possible, and has given a tremendous amount of time, effort, and technology into getting our wiki what we need quickly and perfectly. Even more amazing, this user has never complained once. I will tell you right now, a user that constantly complains is like a rock in my shoe, and I would love to render you incapable of performing certain bodily functions give you a good, long, non-violent talking-to. Yeah. Anyway, this user also could greatly use the sysop tool of deleting and moving images accordingly, since he specializes in the image field. The user I am speaking of is ShardofTruth, and I can speak for both myself and KrytenKoro that he deserves a position as a sysop. Also, on the note of not promoting Xion4ever, we promoted HeartOfOblivion while he was inactive, how was that any different? While Xion4ever's situation is making contributing difficult for her right now, I would not oppose to giving out dear mod sysop rights. Other than that, the promotion of Troinsyxetienne and Neumannz both seem... fine, to me. Just fine. As for the mods who replace them, remember this: a mod should be an example of the "ideal editor", or as close to one as they can get. Basically, I don't want them to complain, cause/fuss about drama, be a huge WikiPrincess on the user talk pages, and they should be currently active in contributing to the growth of the wiki. No warnings is something I also would like to see in a new mod. Remember, a mod is nothing more than a "glorified editor"; their reward is almost nothing (rollback), it's just like a medal of honor saying, "You're a helpful contributor, have a mention on the staff page!", pretty much. Plus, after these many promotions, the graduation of a moderator to a sysop after this is going to be, well, very unlikely and would require several administrators to have to drop off of the face of the wiki. You're essentially going to be selecting very long-term mods.

Indeed, Shard's done spectacular job and put in a tremendous amount of effort. And considering that the bulk of his contributions have involved images, that would put him in a good position to help with the issues with images and articles for deletion Kryten mentioned further up on the forum. Plus, he doesn't usually undo edits, so giving him just rollback would barely change anything. If we make an exception for anybody, it should be him. LapisScarab Good tidings, friends. Today is a momentous day. I am pleased to announce that a new comrade has been chosen to wear the coat. — 01:15, July 31, 2010 (UTC)