Forum:Boss attacks

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Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Boss attacks
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TheFifteenthMember Yes. You're creepy. I can't say we'll miss you while you're gone, so it'd be best if you did go. We all win that way. TheFifteenthMember 19:25, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
On the matter of boss attack names, we really shouldn't be using unofficial names that aren't from the Ultimania. If a name isn't from the Ultimania, it shouldn't be named at all (even if it's in lowercase to indicate it being unofficial). For example:
  • Blizzaga jump: Ventus-Vanitas appears above his target following the execution of afterimage; he slashes downwards, spawning three large icicles.

The arbitary, slightly useless, name tag can easily be removed:

  • Ventus-Vanitas appears above his target following the execution of afterimage; he slashes downwards, spawning three large icicles.

Thoughts?

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KrytenKoro - And when you see me standing there, you'll know you've got a friend with a rock, I mean a big-ass rock.
TALK -
Giving it a name, even if it's an unofficial one that we mark with lowercase or quotation marks, does make it a lot easier to refer to if we have to come back to it later in the strategy. I would instead recommend using the boss's telegraph ("Here I go!", etc.) when we don't have an official technique name.
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TheSilentHero used Water Shuriken! It's super effective! — 20:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
What about this:
  • Official Name
  • Unofficial Name


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TheFifteenthMember Ignoring how these caterpillars uttered what they're trying to say, I do agree. TheFifteenthMember 20:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Kryten: the strategy can refer to the attack using a tag name regardless. The attack doesn't explicitly have to be labelled with that name for the reader to match a description to a pointed name tag.

TSH: Even still, the point is not having any unofficial names at all.

I definitely agree on no unofficial names. See Kryten's talk page and my message on it for an idea I had as a potential solution to the problem. - Challenge Sigil KHD.pngEternal Nothingness XIIIChallenge Sigil KHD.png 20:17, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't think gifs will work, because it won't be easy to get good quality ones that can show what the enemy does. I think we should focus on getting the official names from the Ultimania. TheSilentHero 20:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not saying it won't work, but gifs are already as difficult to obtain as they are. I'd rather have the few people who can make gifs concentrate on more prevalent attacks, like limits and commands. Also, yes, preferably we get the names from the Ultimania but we still need to reach a consensus on how to deal with unnamed attacks either as a placeholder until the Ultimania is checked or if the Ultimania doesn't name a particular move. TheFifteenthMember 21:33, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Bold vs. Italics seems like a good suggestion to me. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 21:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
I was suggesting either .gifs (which would make descriptions of attacks redundant) or regular .png screenshots (since those could depict the main part of the attack in question, while still requiring a description of what happens when it is executed). This basically would stop the debate on whether we use unofficial names or not (something I'm against, completely). If anything, the table I'm proposing could allow a space for an attack name if there is one from the Ultimania. Otherwise, we would just leave that slot in the table blank, or write "N/A" or put a dash. For example:
Image Attack Name Description
Dark Aura KH.gif
Dark Aura (ダークオーラ Dāku Ōra)
Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.

Alternatively, we can format the table like this:

Attack Description
Dark Aura KH.gif
Dark Aura (ダークオーラ Dāku Ōra)
Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.

Here's an example in which there is no official attack name (note that there is NO FAKE NAME USAGE; pretend Dark Aura's name was unknown)

Image Attack Name Description
Dark Aura KH.gif
N/A
Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.

Again, just a suggestion that can be tinkered with and improved upon in the future if necessary. - Challenge Sigil KHD.pngEternal Nothingness XIIIChallenge Sigil KHD.png 02:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I can see the potential there, if we can get demonstrative gifs. Might not be as good for long-duration attacks, like the V-V's Shadow Dive, though. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 03:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't think you necessarily need the full attack, as much as a portion of its main form and then its finisher (using Dark Aura as an example, a few warps and then the flames). - Challenge Sigil KHD.pngEternal Nothingness XIIIChallenge Sigil KHD.png 04:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Still, there are some games (KH3D for example) which make it hard to get images from. TheSilentHero 06:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, maybe we could develop something like this for when an attack does not have an image to illustrate it. - Challenge Sigil KHD.pngEternal Nothingness XIIIChallenge Sigil KHD.png 06:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
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KrytenKoro - "An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on."
TALK -
Ideally, the boss attack sections should have images. Realistically, that's not going to be even nearing completion for a few years.

TFM, I don't understand what you mean by "tags". Assume that Sephiroth's "Heartless Angel" technique did not have an official name (that we had access to). How would you suggest we cover information like "make sure to have Elixirs stocked in the event that Sephiroth casts 'Heartless Angel' on Sora"?

Neumannz, italics are better than nothing, but I'm not sure they are better than quotation marks, as I believe the shifts in formatting are going to look very jarring. This isn't a significant complaint, though.

Maybe you're right, but I just feel that quotation marks make it feel more like making up a name, while italics make it feel more like calling it by its description. That's just my impression of it. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 14:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 18:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Thoughts on the table, Kryten? You kinda ignored it entirely :P - Challenge Sigil KHD.pngEternal Nothingness XIIIChallenge Sigil KHD.png 18:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
While the ideal article would absolutely have images, I don't think it's going to be possible to use images to the exclusion of names, and definitely not to the exclusion of descriptions unless we can somehow get the camera to focus on the boss instead of the protagonist. I would prefer the table have the images in a separate column from the names, if only because it will literally be ages before we have comprehensive image coverage -- although it should also be said that having the images above the technique name distracts the eyes from the technique name. Given the busy-ness of the images, and the lack of comprehensivity, I would actually place them in the rightmost column, so we don't have a gaping abyss sucking at the eye marrow and tunneling inbetweeners to the regulation of patriotism...
Huh? Oh. The table would also benefit from listing the KHWiki:Project Shout-style telegraphs, and should absolutely list a method for avoiding or countering the technique, but that doesn't need to be a distinct cell from the description itself."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 22:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


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TheFifteenthMember Ignoring how these caterpillars uttered what they're trying to say, I do agree. TheFifteenthMember 16:57, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
By tags, I mean a made-up description that alludes to an attack (which basically. To answer your question, the page should list under the Attacks section:
  • Sephiroth ascends to the air and calls out "Descend...Heartless...Angel..." Then, (finish description)

And in the Strategy section, the tip could be "make sure to have Elixirs stocked in the event that Sephiroth uses his "Descend...Heartless...Angel" attack." The point is, we list all the attacks and then in the Strategy section, we call the attack by its description. The reader can still recognise what attack we're talking about, but it's less like we're making up a formal name because we're just picking out an original or outstanding part of the attack that it can be remembered by. And for those that apply, it could be a telegram like you said.

The table could definitely work, but for now, I think all gifs should go in a gallery section because we don't have enough of them. I'd rather not add an extra column when it'll be hardly filled in. Also, does the Ultimania list every single enemy attack name in the game? If they don't we need to make sure we only reserve "N/A" for those and use something else for names we just haven't checked yet (e.g. a blank space or a section stub template).

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TheSilentHero Elwind! — 17:03, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
But if you call it "Descend...Heartless...Angel attack", then you're still giving it an unofficial name, just a long and weird sounding name.

I agree about the gifs in a gallery. If we are going to have a table, we could list the status effects the moves inflict and if it can be blocked.


Yes, but you're only using the names in the strategy section as opposed to the Attacks list. Though on second thoughts, the italics might work okay. TheFifteenthMember 17:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

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Nobody.pngEternal Nothingness XIIINobody.png I should tell you that I'm in an EXTREMELY foul mood. Thanks to you, all our plans are ruined! — 17:19, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Foudre KHD.png I'm just going to say it now: regardless of what happens here, I am 100% AGAINST USING UNOFFICIAL NAMES IN ANY WAY!
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TheSilentHero - Smash! — 17:21, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
How would you refer to a specific attack (without official name) in the strategy section?


As far as I know, all attacks/techniques/whatever ever used in the series (except perhaps the BBSFM-exclusive enemies; I think Shard has the official guide for that, maybe ask him about it?) have official names listed in their respective Ultimania; so it's just a matter of finding them. This site has a bunch of them in Japanese (although I can barely navigate it...), and I can clarify any names from KH2/KH2FM, ReCoM and DDD personally (there's always a description alongside a named technique). Ultima Spark (talk) Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png 18:04, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
I have the KH3D Ultimania too, but it doesn't list all techniques, like the Spellican's broom-summoning attack, for example. (This may be because it is not an attack, but more like a special technique.) TheSilentHero 18:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)