User talk:Soroxas

KH3 content

Hey there. I noticed you were creating pages for characters and worlds that will appear in Kingdom Hearts III. Our policy is to wait until the game is released before starting those pages. However, we've set up drafts in our project-space in case people want to get started. TheSilentHero 17:16, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, what is the reasoning behind this policy? No offense, I really don't see the point of it. Is it to prevent spoilers or something? Or because information may be inaccurate? The majority of wikis allow articles for upcoming content, while they tend to have templates at the top which say "this content is upcoming".

I also think we should add KH3 era icons, content footers and templates. Sora's article has them for example. I did this while adding Olette's KH2 biography, but my edit seems to have been rejected. Is it because of the KH3 stuff? Soroxas (talk) 00:54, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

With past games, some of the content shown in trailers didn't actually make it into the final version of the game (the Twilight Thorn in KH3D for example). Therefore, we have the policy that we only place information on the game page itself, to avoid having to change and remove stuff from all kind of pages later. The same applies to the KH3 icons and templates. There are some exceptions for characters that are definitely in the game, like Sora. And yes, that is why your edits were rejected. TheSilentHero 17:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

I still don't really agree with the principle in concept and think the idea of a "this article is for upcoming content and may be inaccurate" template is superior, but if that's what the people in charge of this wiki plan to do, then I can't really say or do much. It seems really extreme to deny KH3 articles just because information may be inaccurate based on trailers. For example, info about Elsa being in KH3, her being from Arendelle, her sister being Anna, etc, aren't going to change in the final game. I know all the KH3 content will be added later, I just don't see the big issue with getting a headstart on things we absolutely know for sure (for example, there's no way Olette is going to be removed KH3 after she's seen in various trailers wearing new clothes). In the meantime, I guess I'll just work on the drafts then. Maybe you should make it more obvious that KH3 content is just going to be drafts for now. Soroxas (talk) 05:35, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

"It seems really extreme" -- these are the same policies that wikipedia and tfwiki follow.

"I just don't see the big issue" -- The issue is that each time the wiki community has given in on this point, false material based on trailers makes it into the wiki that does not get removed until a year or more later, when someone like me notices it. In the meantime, the wiki gets criticized by the fandom for having such material."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Woody Pride

Why did you remove this?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:03, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Where? If you mean on the KH3 article, it was already just "Woody" before I edited. If elsewhere, then it's probably an error. Soroxas (talk) 19:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

https://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Template:KH3&diff=prev&oldid=741361

I was just trying to be consistent with the name of the article there. The name conventions on this wiki are confusing. Sometimes, the article name isn't the same as the infobox. It's why I've avoided creating Mike's and Sulley's pages. Soroxas (talk) 20:25, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Woody Pride is the name used by the official site. If other sources use just Woody, then they are either unsourced or not up to date. The naming conventions on this wiki are "full name used in published material"."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Violating guidelines

I was responding to the IP, not you. That being said, we do have a general policy to edit articles as if they rest of the wiki was set up correctly, red links and all, as done on tfwiki. The goal is to minimize what rewriting needs to be done once a game is fully released."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Captions

Hi, I just want to let you know that the community doesn't use quotes for captions for our images. Captions should be written more professionally, in a way that summarizes what the image depicts.--NinjaSheik 21:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I know I mentioned this before, but I seen you've been uploading a lot images lately and inserting them in articles, and the captions aren't fulfilling the wiki's requirements. So, as a reminder: the captions need to explain what the image itself depicts. Putting it "X with the group" isn't informing the readers what the image is supposed to illustrate.--NinjaSheik 21:20, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

This is my third time saying this, but you're not really following the image policy in regards to the captions. KrytenKoro reverted some of your edits because you're not following our guidelines with the captions. When adding images to an article, please write the captions that explains what the image itself depicts. Don't just say "X with Y and Z", and use different captions for different images (not "X with group" or "X on Destiny Islands).--NinjaSheik 23:12, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm not used to a wiki where captions are expected to be so long and detailed. Honestly, it comes off as redundant to me when the image is right beside text that explains what it is. It feels overly written to me. I thought "Frollo meets Sora" would be an improvement over "Frollo and Sora", but I realize now that it does not suffice. I'll try to add more detail then. Soroxas (talk) 05:49, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's why I had reverted those changes, but yes, that's pretty much the gist of the policy -- images are meant to compliment the text, not simply be decoration. Similar to wikipedia, the caption should give enough of a description to justify the image, but also not just be redundant to the text itself. So, for example, the images on pages for special techniques describe the visual appearance of a technique, like Zantetsuken's cherry blossoms. We can't really do stuff as comprehensive as this, but this is the gist of what we're going for -- a professional, encyclopedic approach that respects fair use restrictions and focuses on content over decoration."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:46, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Inserting images

Also, just to let you know, the wiki follows the typical standard that when posting images into articles, it follows a left-right-left-right pattern.--NinjaSheik 22:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding your edits to the Seifer page

Just because someone disagrees with you and undoes your edit, doesn't mean they're "forcing their own interpretation". Especially if they left an edit comment explaining why they undid it. By undoing that edit, you're actually forcing YOUR own interpretation. If you disagree with another user over something, instead of edit warring, you should take it to the talk page. Now, someone else edited the page with a possible solution for your disagreement. If you do not agree with that edit, please don't undo it, but bring it up on the talk page. TheSilentHero 10:15, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

There are three options.

1) Claiming it's totally mocking

2) Claiming it's totally sincere

3) Claiming it could be mocking or sincere

I already left a comment explaining why I felt it was option 2 for myself, but I decided to go with 3 in order to try to reach a middle ground with them. If someone undos option 3 in favor of 1, they are not open to alternate interpretation. This is exemplified because they said "No, you're wrong, it IS option 1, and we are not doing option 3". What I find amazing is that you're trying to make me look like the bigot here, when I went for option 3, while the other person went for option 1 and also edit warred a bit too in order to keep option 1. If someone tried to keep option 1, then I'd say that pretty much qualifies forcing an interpretation. Yet you go after me, acting like I'm the only one who is totally guilty and in the wrong. And if they undid my edit again, I would indeed take it to the talk page. I am fine with the current version. Soroxas (talk) 11:21, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I hardly calling editing your edit once "edit warring". If you disagreed with me, simply talk it out to the talk page and let's discuss it thoroughly. Quite frankly, I find it ridiculous to be disagreeing with something that is made quite clear through the characters' tone and dialogue, not to mention the the general interaction between them in the scene and having a good and objective understanding who the characters are and their relationship they have to one another in the game. For the sake of not escalating things further and not violating the standard three-revert rule, as it seems to be a case of "difference in opinions", I'll leave it as it is at the moment.

However, I will ask that you keep future conversations with other users more cordial and assume good faith in accordance to the KHWiki's rules. It's fine to disagree with other users and you are entitled to your opinion, but don't go around saying "forcing one's interpretation" or that our no speculation rule "only exists because people like you with this mindset are often in positions of power on wikis". That isn't how the community works. Everything is decided by majority vote, not on a user's editing credentials.

If you find our policies disagreeable, I think you might favor our sister site, The Keyhole, more and find it more suitable for your editing style.--NinjaSheik 18:15, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

We'll have to agree to disagree. In my eyes, re-adding "Seifer mockingly said", when someone already vocalized that they disagree with this interpretation and attempted to be neutral, is forcing your interpretation. At that moment, you could have also went to the talk page, but your reaction was to undo my edit. I also still disagree with KH2's article featuring art of Sora on the beach - I disagree with your view that it's somehow more relevant, especially when the first 2-3 hours of the game heavily focus on Roxas' life in Twilight Town with his friends. Hayner, Pence and Olette meant so much to Roxas, and they also play a prominent role with Sora during the latter parts of the game.

Yes, Seifer is a bit of bully, but Japanese games tend to feature character growth and complexity, just like how Seifer wasn't completely evil in FF8. The way Seifer nods to Roxas and then fist bumps his heart seemed very bro-ish. The way Olette calls out to him also came across as sympathetic. I don't like Seifer being portrayed as this one-dimensional bully. Seifer also thought Roxas was a photo thief, explaining his hostility. I'm sad that you view that scene as just "Seifer being an ass again", instead of him changing his attitude of Roxas a bit, and a hint that maybe he's not all that "bad" as he seems. Soroxas (talk) 18:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Once again, for the sake of not escalating things further, we need to take this discussion about the edit on Seifer's talk page. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the KHWiki advocates for objective facts, not personal interpretation. You might see my edit as "personal interpretation", but I see it as fact due to the evidence given to us, the viewers, via dialogue and tone, something I explained in the edit summary, as per policy. If someone seriously disagrees with something after three reverts, then it's policy to take to the talk page. So, shall we head there?

Again, that's your personal and subjective feelings on the matter, which is no place for the KHWiki. Also, I'd like to ask to refrain making assumptions about my subjective feelings regarding a character. Not only it is presumptuous and inaccurate, it's also extremely rude. Like most editors, I don't like letting my subjective feelings regarding a particular work seep into my objective editing. That's unprofessional. The KHWiki relies on facts and objectivity. So please refrain from acting as if you know my subjective thoughts and feelings on a particular matter, because as we are not acquainted, you do not.--NinjaSheik 19:08, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Then let's take it to the talk page. We disagree on whether or not Seifer was being mocking is a fact. I was simply explaining my reasoning there. Soroxas (talk) 19:47, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Warning

I'm not laughing!
	This is a warning for false accusations for bad faith. Your edits have been reverted; please do not attempt to repeat them. If you wish to do test edits, you are welcome to do so here. — KeybladeSpyMaster 19:39, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

KeybladeSpyMaster - You're actions are totally illogical. TALK - - You've done enough! - 01:39 PM Sun, June 24, 2018 MDT CODE 0x1SF1XKSMDRK: EMERGENCY Unfortunately, user, this is a warning for falsely accusing an administrator of bad faith. Assuming that TheSilentHero was correcting you with the intention of making you appear as a bigot is accusing him of acting with malicious intent, and nothing in his message to you portrays any such intent. We follow on this wiki the principles on Wikipedia of assuming good faith: that users on this wiki, including you and me, do not act with the intention of harming the Kingdom Hearts Wiki or others on the project. That's true even when we disagree. I'm sure you have no such malicious intention, but you can't go around and accuse people of acting with malicious intent towards you. Falsely doing so is inappropriate and can lead to further hostility and argument. You are welcome to continue to edit, and can continue to express your disagreement with current rules, policies, and interpretations, but you will do so without accusing others of bad faith without evidence. Otherwise, continuing such behavior will lead to a block. END OF LINE

What a fancy template. There's so much here I could pick apart, but I think I'll address the elephant in the room.

"False accusation of bad faith" - They framed a situation to make me look like the one who can't accept other's opinions and trying to force their opinion, when I was actually the one trying to reach a neutral viewpoint. That alone should be plenty of evidence, reason and grounds for assuming bad faith. Claiming what I said is "false" is extremely dismissive of my opinion and devalues what I have to say, and retroactively tries to paint me in the wrong. Soroxas (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Images

What's the deal with the brighter-but-patchier images you've been uploading?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:47, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Some images are way too dark to the point I can barely make anything out. The "patchy" effect is due to the brightening process. Sorry it bugs you and I'll keep your dislike of patchiness in mind. Soroxas (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so to be clear you're not simply getting screenshots from the game? This wiki doesn't allow artificial alteration of images like that, out of concern for presenting stuff in a false light. If the game presents it dark, then it's dark."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

It's dark in the game, but not that dark as the image is. Also, a lot of games back then were adjusted for CRT televisions. It also does not help that a lot of capture devices can alter the brightness of an image. Because of all the factors involved, it's often difficult to tell what the intended brightness/saturation/contrast/etc of an image is. Soroxas (talk) 21:57, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay, then we'd need to get a better direct rip from the game, not artificially alter an image."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:24, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Bumping this. Soraxas, your images don't comply with the image policy, as some of the images you uploaded have altered, so can you please inform us which ones you uploaded were altered? You've been uploading a lot of them since you started editing and it's difficult to keep track of them. Images with artificial alternation need to be deleted and replaced with HD screenshots directly from the games.--NinjaSheik 17:39, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

The ones I recently altered were also altered before I altered them, so I altered them to look like how they were originally supposed to be. Their brightness was too high and were not a clean direct rip from the game in the first place, as the uploader's capture messed up the black levels. Look at the file history here and the brightness:

https://www.khwiki.com/File:Ventus-Vanitas_01_KHBBS.png

There's no way you can say that the developers intended their blacks to look like greys. Master Riku the Bloody uploaded HD versions, but in doing so, ruined the intended and correct brightness levels.

Also, the concept art of Hollow Bastion should not count, since it's not originally a direct rip of anything. I simply removed the grey smears on them, making it closer to what the artist intended. Soroxas (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

There are a lot of old images from the split, but the KHWiki are starting to replace them in HD. Plus, as a large franchise, it is difficult to keep up with the amount of images on this wiki. But you did confess to Kryten that you did alter those images nonetheless, and we need to get images directly from the games so we aren't presenting them in a false light. If anything, I just wanted to alert you that, if you see any images that needs replacement, you can request images to be uploaded and have them brought to attention by posting here.--NinjaSheik 18:35, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't see the issue with altering an image to make it look unaltered and how it is actually supposed to look in the first place. I don't view it as "presenting these images in a false light". If anything, the originals, with their incorrect black levels, were already doing that. I'm done altering the brightness levels of images anyway.Soroxas (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Because you are taking an image and manually altering it based on an assumption that that is how it is supposed to look, not how it actual look in the game(s). That's why Kryten informed you that we need to get images directly from the games themselves. Please stop sidestepping the issue. Please list the images that you altered. I'll put in a request on the Image Requests to have those replaced. I think that you should talk ShardofTruth about to rip images directly from the games, as Shard is our best image uploader.--NinjaSheik 17:44, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

If the images were altered before, they should indeed be replaced. However, altering the images to make them look unaltered is not the way to do this. First of all, because it's hard to tell how exactly they were intended to look, and second, because they'll still be altered. The correct way to replace them would be to take screenshots from the games themselves. As NinjaSheik asked, please list the images you altered on the request page so they can be replaced. TheSilentHero 18:06, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

My edits are closer to look like how the image is supposed to look. It does not take a genius or a perfectionist to know when black levels are incorrect. It's not "hard" to know in these cases such as Vanitas's images. It's not some vague wild assumption, I've played the games and know the brightness of the scenes. And while my alteration (I usually go to Photoshop and just click Auto-Contrast) may not be 100 percent correct to the original, it is close enough to the point it should not be an issue. For example, if an image is the number 100, then the unaltered version is like a 50 while mine is like a 90 or 95. In any case, here's every file I've ever uploaded:

https://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20190101000000&limit=500&contribs=user&target=Soroxas&namespace=6&tagfilter=

I can take direct rips instead, I know how. It is just difficult for KH1 pics due to the lack of theater mode in my copy, so I can't do that. The exception is the Ansem pic I recently pic, since it's near the beginning of the game. Soroxas (talk) 18:11, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Were all of your images altered? All the uploads you've done since were done in bulk, so it's hard to keep track of them. If you can refer to the ones you altered and post them the request page, that'll save a lot of time. Also, if you have trouble with getting images, that's what the request page is for. ShardofTruth or another user might be able to help if they can see what images need to be replaced on the request page.--NinjaSheik 19:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, all the images that are renders or control art of characters, soroxas cleaned them up by getting rid of excess whitespace, which was very helpful."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 12:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Jiminy

Just a heads up, this wiki covers fictional content in an "in-universe" PoV, which means that we write synopses, well, like Jiminy Cricket would. I've tweaked your writeup on Jiminy's page to address this."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:44, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Thumbnails

You'd need to ask an admin for the current policy, but to my memory there are parts of the manual style that dictate what width thumbnails should be in an article."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)