Editing Forum:Where will we go?

{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}
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{{KrytenKoro|Okay, this is crunch time people.

We'll do this in two parts. We've all said our bit before, so it's decision time.

Also, we NEED to contact bulbapedia, SmashWiki, and WoWWiki, and figure out how their situation is going.}}
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==Initial vote==
'''THE INITIAL VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29'''
{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
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===Move or no?===
====Move====
#[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:Erry|Er]][[User talk:Erry|ry]] 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{User:JFHavoc/Sig}} 14:54, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{User:17master/Sign}} 15:01, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#--[[User:Riku&#39;s Love|I&#39;m so bored]] 15:05, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#<span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 17:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{SilverCrono/Sig}} 19:50, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}21:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 21:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:ShardofTruth|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#033D1B">Shard</font>]][[User:ShardofTruth/Symbols|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#0DE388">of</font>]][[User talk:ShardofTruth|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#033D1B">Truth</font>]] 21:52, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{The Inexistentsig}}
#--'''''[[User:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Random!</span>]][[User talk:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkblue;">to a point!</span>]]''''' 22:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:BlackSoulBlade|BlackSoulBlade]] 22:48, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#{{ShadowsTwilightSig}}
#[[User:Falcos|Falcos]] 18:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:LightoftheDarkness|LightoftheDarkness]] 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:Sephiroth0812|Sephiroth0812]] 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

====Don't move====
#[[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:LightRoxas|LightRoxas]] 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
#[[User:Master Vantius]] --[[User:Master Vantius|Master Vantius]] 00:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

===Where to?===
'''THE VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29'''
====[http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page ShoutWiki]====
*{{User:JFHavoc/Sig}} 14:55, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:17master/Sign}} 15:14, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

====[http://wikkii.com/wiki/Free_Wiki_Hosting Wikkii]====
*[[User:Erry|Er]][[User talk:Erry|ry]] 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 15:58, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*While I think private hosting is the best option, it's not feasible for a community like this. <span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 17:41, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:BlackSoulBlade|BlackSoulBlade]] 22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}23:15, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:Lapidothtill/Sig}} 23:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:Falcos|Falcos]] 01:05, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

====Private hosting====
''Please provide comments on your proposal''
*I've already stated what I though would be optimum, through the utilization of MediaWiki.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
|}

==REVOTE==

'''''If you agree to a revote based on the new circumstances, please replace your name here with your signature. All previous voters must agree to revote for it to proceed. IF YOU ARE NOT A VOTER AND YOU WANT THE REVOTE TO PROCEED, YOU NEED TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T RE-SIGNED YET.'''''

*{{User:17master/Sign}}02:58, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:BlackSoulBlade|BlackSoulBlade]] 00:15, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:Erry/Sig}} 00:22, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:Falcos|Falcos]] 07:24, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:JFHavoc/Sig}} 16:08, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:18, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:Lapidothtill/Sig}} 17:22, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}20:04, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:LightoftheDarkness|LightoftheDarkness]] 00:48, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*'''Number XIII'''  - ''LightRoxas'' - '''The Key of Destiny''' 03:29, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 21:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
*--[[User:Master Vantius|Master Vantius]] 22:12, November 9, 2010 (UTC)Master Vantius
*[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 16:23, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
*--'''''[[User:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Random!</span>]][[User talk:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkblue;">to a point!</span>]]''''' 00:20, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*--[[User:Riku&#39;s Love|Riku&#39;s Love is bored :/]] 03:04, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 02:01, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:Sephiroth0812|Sephiroth0812]] 20:03, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
*{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:40, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
*[[User:ShardofTruth|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#033D1B">Shard</font>]][[User:ShardofTruth/Symbols|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#0DE388">of</font>]][[User talk:ShardofTruth|<font face="Segoe UI" color="#033D1B">Truth</font>]] 22:50, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
*{{SilverCrono/Sig}}
*<span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span>
*{{The Inexistentsig}}
*{{User:CaelumLucisCaliga/Sig}}
*{{User:Chitalian8/Sig}}

:I decline the revote. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 16:28, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
::THE MOTION IS KILLED, THE MOVE TO WIKKII WILL PROCEED AS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. CAPSLOCK IS FUN.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
:Dammit, Mag!  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 17:03, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
::I second Neumannz's outburst. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 00:17, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::And I second DTN's seconding. --{{User:JFHavoc/Sig}} 02:42, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::Even though I didn't vote the first time (big mistake), I second Havoc's seconding of DTN's seconding. {{KKDSig|1}}
:::::I agree with these guys^--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 02:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::::^this [[User:BlackSoulBlade|BlackSoulBlade]] 03:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::<s>What they all said <nowiki>*points up*</nowiki> {{User:Erry/Sig}} 03:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC)</s>
::::::::I concur with the majority. --"Never fear ... [[User:Superdog1123| Superdog]] is here!" <sup>Yipee! :D</sup> 04:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123
So basically, Maggosh, you've got yourself a looooooooot of people pissed at you right now--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 04:13, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::If my vote counts, then you have it! [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 04:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
::::::::::Okay, I revoke my declination. Back to the Continuum! *snaps fingers* [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 05:39, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::I revoke my vote because enough is enough, Wikia isn't complying and the current situation is that this place is becoming a fan-based wiki while the official is going onto the new server/database. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 16:14, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::Well, I suppose I could follow suit with Erry... [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 16:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I didn't know the vote was for where to move to, so I'm in. Unless it is to revote for moving or not. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 00:22, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Nope, just for where to move to. [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[File:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 00:26, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
So, does this mean the re-vote is on? What will we be voting on, exactly? --Never fear ... [[User:Superdog1123| Superdog]] is here! <sup>[[User talk: Superdog1123| Yipee! :D]]</sup> 05:43, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123
:It appears so. Hopefully, the vote should be clear, like: 
:* Move to independent server
:* Move to Wikii
:* Stay here
:[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 05:49, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
Aaaaaand we're back where we started--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:Which is where? [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 16:29, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
::Where we are without question, without a doubt moving no matter what anyone has to say about it--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 16:32, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::And is that Bad? Do you guys have somewhere to go? [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 16:36, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
:Whatever happened to making a SEIWA? y'know, a Square Enix NIWA? I'D vote for ''that''. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 16:50, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
::Only 3 people showed up in the IRC yesterday: myself, the NIWA coordinator and [http://ffxiv.wikia.com/wiki/User:Zyeriis Zyeriis]. I am still interested in helping set it up. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 16:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
*'''REVOTE!''' {{User:Hangon/Sig}} 13:50, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
::Sorry for the yo-yo, guys. >_> [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 21:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
:::Yo-yo sums it up pretty damn well. Will you make up your mind already? i don't mean to be rude but your constant flip-flopping is starting to make me dizzy--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 23:13, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, BIG problem.  Riku's Love said on Nov. 14 that she would be gone for two weeks.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:Oh, damn that is a problem, and of course she's one of the last ones who hasn't signed yet--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 23:08, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

::REVOTAR!(I'm not too late, am I?) [[User:Roxas pwns sora47|Roxas pwns sora47]] 05:34, November 19, 2010 (UTC)Roxas_pwns_sora47

Riku's Love. Are you all happy now?--[[User:Riku&#39;s Love|Riku&#39;s Love is bored :/]] 20:44, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

:Thank you very much, RL! :D You have to replace your name up top with your sig, too. >> [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 20:55, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Has the revote been set up? If so, when and where is it being held? --Never fear ... [[User:Superdog1123| Superdog]] is here! <sup>[[User talk: Superdog1123| Yipee! :D]]</sup> 05:07, December 2, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123

==Of What Remains==
{{Bluer|14:04, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|I was contemplating opening a new forum thread, but if it's concentrating on the same topic, I don't see the point, so I'll just open it here.

Assuming the move will remain with the status quo of its purpose, I propose that the Wiki that remains here gives leeway to more fan content. Kingdom Hearts is after all nothing without its fans. Also, real-world content should be given more coverage. Whatever was worked upon here should remain, fixed if broken, improved if healthy. We'll have to be lenient with it now that Wikia is taking a more Facebook-y approach. 

Every user out there have been great thinkers and movers so far, we can do with more positive and constructive ideas for the remaining wiki}}
{{Lapidoth|text= I agree with more real world content, but what exactly does more fan content entail, exactly?}}
{{neumannz|time=15:01, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Would that be like the fandubs that were done by KH-Vids and that other site?}}
{{Bluer|15:10, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|Not sure about the agreed definition, but fan content would mean, to me, anything made by fans that have significant coverage. Something fanmade that was talked about somewhere, that kind of stuff. Prolly you have a better idea of it.}}
{{Lapidoth|text=Oh, that makes sense.}}
{{Maggosh|nathan=So, if I'm understanding you correctly, we take a FFWiki approach and allow articles for things such as [[wikia:fialfactasy:Dead Fantasy|Dead Fantasy]] and [[finalfantasy:Dion Rogers' Rinoa|Dion Rogers' Rinoa]]?}}
{{Bluer|15:38, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|Wikia wants to be all "fan community", yeah? Let's give 'em that, starting with "fanwankery".}}
{{Maggosh|nathan=Wait, you don't mean to go as far as to allow stuff from the Fanon wiki be posted here, do you?}}
We'll have to see. Perhaps we can set a criterion somewhere, or not. That and real-world coverage. '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 15:43, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I assume that includes stuff like coverage of interviews and VA and developer profiles and that kind of thing, right?  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 15:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{Chitalian8|time=15:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|text= EDIT CONFLICT: Regarding fan content, there would have to be some sort of regulations or rules that would limit what kind of fan content that would be added to the wikia, right? We couldn't let every single KH-related Youtube video (e.g. lol kingdom hearts) have an article. What would be the acceptable fan content?}}

{{Lapidoth|text=If we allowed fanon material to be added here after the move, wouldn't that cripple the already existing KHfanon?}}
:Acceptable fan content is up debate. Same as real world. How much substantial info would it add to the fan community of KH? Its up for debate. As for that crippling KHfanon, depends on what KHfanon contains. '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 15:57, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
::About adding fanon content, I think the more topnotch material should be allowed - [[wikia:kingdomheartsfanon:Avastar: Kingdom Hearts|Avastar: Kingdom Hearts]], for example. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 16:04, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{SC|time=16:08, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|talk=So, pretty much just merge the KH and KHFanon wikis? <!-- Is my story topnotch, maggosh? :3 -->}}
{{Bluer|16:13, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|That could be one way to interpret it. But I'm not sure if KHfanon wanted to follow KHWiki and move or remain with wikia. Either way, I'll have to sleep on it now, since I'm working tomorrow<!-- damn it --> so we'll probably have more proposals to work on.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I just wanted to say that I absolutely, 100% support Bluerfn's proposed changes, especially a re-merger of khfanon and khwiki on wikia.

Also, wikkii will work, according to their admins, so I will start the installation this week. However, due to the complaints about this vote, and the new option of the Square portal, we can start a revote on where to move if you guys want. It needs to be pretty much unanimous amongst those who voted already, though, 'cause we cannot allow your votes to be ignored against your wishes.}}
{{Dan da Man36|time=17:33, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|talk=I support the addition of more real-world articles, but I can't say I'm keen on the idea of merging the Kingdom Hearts and Fanon wikis... It would cause a lot of confusion between articles, and possibly vandals trying to change the content of a user's fanon...

If we do end up merging them, I'd just like to suggest creating a "Fanon:" space, or something similar in order to reduce confusion...}}
{{Maggosh|nathan=I was thinking more of a maintenance template geared towards identifying fanon material. Fittingly, it would have a fanon character "sprite", such as the one in this talk bubble.}}

:Uh uh, no way! We are not having fanon stuff on this wiki. I approve of having articles on voice actors, but fanon will have to stay on the Twilight Town Library. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 17:45, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{Maggosh|flint=Who made you boss all of the sudden? We need to differentiate from the other Wiki, and this would create a big enough difference. If you want it to be fanon-free, be my guest and move to the other wiki.}}

{{Lapidoth|text=I don't think that's up to you, Sean, that's why we're discussing it. The idea of merging them isn't completely ludicrous, but I agree with Dan, it would be hard to monitor all that info. The creation of new article would get a little jumbled as well. But, the template idea sounds the most reasonable right now.}}

That may not be up to me, but I still don't like it. Putting fanon stuff on this wiki will make it as unreliable as Uncyclopedia. If we want to attract fans, we wouldn't be putting up lies and confuse them. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 18:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Lapidoth|skinny=Well, if there's a Fanon template on every fan made article, they wouldn't be lies. The consumer would be properly informed, therefore causing minimal confusion.}}

@SeanWheeler: I think you're being overzealous and confusing the point of the two wikis. The current KH Wiki - the one that is moving - is intended to be purely devoted to official information on the main articles, and unofficial topics are contained on things like the forums. Once the wiki moves, the Wikia-Wiki will change in some way to differentiate the two; having it be a fan-oriented database is, I think, a good idea.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}18:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really want to move. You know yesterday, I looked at the Oasis skin, and it is starting to look better. Sora's page is still readable, and so is Donald and Goofy's. In fact I looked at the forum, and it looks good. Wikia is improving the skin. Fixing the bugs. And we still have Monobook. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 18:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

1) Once again, this isn't just about us not liking the skin (though that is a big part of it). It's about how Wikia is ''forcing'' the skin on us, and that readers are still stuck with Oasis. The only thing Oasis has over Monobook (to me) is a better recent changes page, which readers won't see much anyway. 2) If you don't want to move, then don't. No one's making you. I you want to keep voting on TKW, fine, do that, but do it on the oved wiki (or the original one if they continue the contest as well).--'''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 18:36, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|There's a few weird spots with the situation, such as the guy having bcship without us knowing who he is, the database not being up to date, the address being different from what we agreed on, and the funding situation being unclear, but [http://www.kingdomheartsdb.com/Kingdom_Hearts_Wiki some guy has already set up the kh wiki at a new site].}}
:porplemontage owns [http://www.porplemontage.com/ this site], in which you can find out other wiki's he helps with. What was the domain you guys agreed to? [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 20:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC).

Too bad that new site doesn't have Monaco! Why couldn't people get Monaco on their new sites if they miss Monaco so much? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 22:33, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{KKD|time=22:39, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|link=I've stopped opposing the move, and I'm leaving with the wiki (though I'll still be here), but I just wanted to pose a (semi-rhetorical) question. What happens if we leave, and things change for the better here? I know it's a bit of an extreme, but would we have the ability to move back here if conditions proved better later on down the road? EDIT: I'm not saying that it's gonna happen, or that we're gonna want to, my question is purely theoretical.}}

{{Chitalian8|time=22:52, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|xigbar= Sean, if you bothered to read the wall-o-text forums, you would know the answer to your question. True, they are a pain to read, but it will probably answer all of your questions.}}

Well, I'm coming in late to this section, but I support this new turn, although the KHWikia wiki would still stay high up on a google listing with all its activity.  That could be a problem.  Second, who the hell set up the db?  Thirdly, this answer is a little late, but to anyone out there who still dislikes the move because it would be "wasting all that hard work we put into it" is wrong.  That is crap.  <small>To put it in a simple form, pretend that there are two folders on your hardrive, nothing else.  One is named kingdomhearts.wikia.com, and the other is named new wiki.  Now suppose that the Wikia folder is full of files, documents and images and such, and that the new wiki folder is completely empty.  Moving is basically highlighting everything in the wikia folder, copying it, and then pasting it in the new wiki folder.  '''''Nothing was lost in this process.'''''</small>  Finally, Sean, the new sight can't have Monaco because Monaco is not a public skin.  It is owned by Wikia (if this has changed, please inform me).  {{The Inexistentsig}}

{{LA|Vtext=No, please, don't merge this wiki with the fanon wiki >_<

KKD also brings up a good point.}}

Okay, I looked at the [[wikia:Community:Forum:Anti-Wikia Alliance/linkdatabase|Anti-Wikia Alliance database]] and Kingdom Hearts Wiki isn't up there. Don't we need to register to the Anti-Wikia Alliance to move? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 23:35, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=23:44, November 7, 2010 (UTC)|text= The AWA isn't something official, we need no one's permission but our own to move.}}
:Not a requirement, just a really good idea. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 23:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC).
{{LA|Vtext=Also, if wikia-khwiki plans to use a more fan-based approach, why not introduce "Theory" subpages, like Lostpedia/Heroes Wiki? I think it could get pretty fun/interesting. What do you guys think?}}

{{Lapidoth|text=that could be very interesting}}

{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= The Anti-Wikia Alliance, huh? I wonder why wikia allows this on their forums...I mean, the bigger this list gets the more bad publicity, isn't it. However, the reason KH Wiki is not yet up there has to do with the fact that the final moving location isn't yet clear, or did I miss something here?}}

First of all, TNE actually originally singed us up for the AWA.  Second, the AWA is in no way offical.  Third, why would we have to register with them to move?  Fourth, I like the idea, but don't listen much to me, as I will no longer exist, er... inexistent on kingdomhearts.wikia.com.  AND, for all noobs reading this: '''do not start doing fanon stuff yet'''.  Nothing is hammered out.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

:I also wonder why Wikia would let people put forums like that on community central. In fact, why don't they threaten to block all the patriots? Sannse, a Wikia staff member responded on our forums without threatening us. Remember when we thought we were going to lose Monobook until I discovered the week before the deadline that we are keeping it? Maybe they were planning on losing it, then they decided to keep it when fans complained. And also Oasis' purpose is to improve accessability on Wikia. It has a few bugs but they are improving it. Look, Wikia is more lenient compared to us and the patriots. In fact, they may even give us back Monaco at a later time. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 01:36, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

::Um, no, they said that Monaco is gone for good.  It will never return.  And, if you read anything at the top of the AWA page, Wikia knows that it wouldn't do any good to delete the content.  It would still exist and would most likely be restored.  The patriots aren't banned as it would violate Wikia's banning policy.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:::@Inexistent: "fanon" =/= "fan-based". --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 01:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, maybe Monaco is gone for good, but we still have Monobook. And the reason why they switched to Oasis was because some people didn't like Monaco. And they wanted some way to improve the site. They didn't mean to shove a bad skin down our throats. They are improving Oasis for better navigation. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 02:06, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

ARG ARG ARG. For the like 10th time, only the registered users will see Monobook, anons will see Oasis, and they will format their edits accordingly. [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[File:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 02:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

:That is not the point. Wikia is improving Oasis. They are trying to make Oasis easier for newer Users. They are trying to help improve their site. Oasis just takes getting used to. That's all. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 02:16, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

The thing is, they're not changing the core issues, like the reduced width, as well as the adjusted galleries. This isn't about getting used to, it's about actually making the wiki look like crap. [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[File:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 02:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


Sean, '''enough'''. The move has been decided, there is no changing that. Either give ideas for where we should move, what the original Wikia should become, or stay out of the discussion, you're making us go in circles. And by the way, we know they didn't ''mean'' for the skin to suck as gloriously as it does, but they ''totally'' meant to force it on us. You can't "accidentally force something on someone.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is my summery on the situation: 
:Wikia is a horribly company that cares nothing for the fan's that contribute to it's community. For example, [http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=143.0 see this]. Wikia buy's wikis with empty promises and lies, and then forces it, along with all wiki's under it, to have it to use wikia own's extensions and customizations. Being on your own would give you more control over the wiki and be run by actual fans, not faceless cooperations. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 02:38, November 8, 2010 (UTC).

Calling Wikia "horrible" and "faceless" is a bit of an exagerration. They are honestly trying to give the layout an easier interface. It works on some levels, and I see where they are going. However, the fact that this is such a template-heavy wiki gives us problems, since we have formatted so many of our changes to Monaco/Monobook. But to accuse them of such things as "empty promises and lies" is a huge overstatement. [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[File:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 02:43, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sean, Oasis was not started because people didn't like Monaco.  Wikia has a tendency to update things that need no update... but they went to far this time.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

Well...I read all the posts in here thus far, and have to agree with the majority who feel the wiki should be moved...I just want to know where...I saw Wikkii got the most votes, so is that where KHWiki is going, or is it going to the site from porplemontage? [[User:Eyestothesky|Eyestothesky]] 11:58, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|Goo-goo-ca-choo:
#We can install monaco on any new site. I have personally spoken to Sannse, and she has told me where we can get the code, although we would be responsible for maintaining the skin at the new site.
#I don't think we ever thought monobook would disappear (since they said it would remain from the beginning) - the problem with it is that Oasis is the mandatory default, meaning only registered users can see monobook.
#If the new wiki ever decides to come back to wikia, and the wikia version is okay with that, there's two ways about it:
*Carefully reviewing every page for edits that can be merged into the wikia version.
*performing a full database dump from the new site, overwriting wikia's version and any edits made since the move.
-So, it's possible, but a lot harder than the move ''out''.
#We do not need to do anything but move in order to move. Wikia operates under a copyleft license, meaning that anyone, at any time, can copy all of our content, as long as they preserve the edit histories.
#Wikia is a profit-oriented company that is focused on bringing in new hits and users. The main disconnect between us and them is that they basically view the quality of the wikis as a happy accident, while we view it as the primary goal, to the exclusion of all others. Wikia is not evil or bad, they just have a completely separate goal from us, and operate towards that goal. This move from wikia is due to our own goal having become opposed to theirs, making our continued partnership unsustainable.
#Theories subpages would be an excellent idea, I think, and while I don't plan on participating in them at all, I would suggest that they be maintained responsibly, rather than being treated like an internet forum of some kind. Well-built essays or academic proofs would be astounding.
#We are going forward with a planned move to wikkii, '''''but due to the recent changes in our circumstances, we may hold a revote if all previous voters acquiesce to the poll at the top of the page being nullified'''''. (If anyone really wants a revote to be held, please make sure those who voted above are aware of the opportunity).
}}

==Revoting==
{{JFHavoc|time=15:57, November 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=I wouldn't be opposed to a re vote, as I've recently become quite fond of DTN's proposal for a Square Enix Portal similar to NIWA.}}

:I also wouldn't be opposed to a revote. The Oasis skin is horrible, but I don't like changes such as moving. Also I think merging with the fanon wiki would be a terrible idea. Even if we move, we should protect the wiki from vandals. Having fanon on this wiki would encourage vandals to put fanon stuff on the facts pages such as the Unknown from Birth by Sleep being Ansem the Wise (that happened once). Also I would want the Wikia Wiki to be no different than the new wiki. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 20:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
::...Sean, that is the worst possible idea for what to do with the wikia wiki.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 21:04, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
:::My guess is that many people here haven't experienced Wiki's outside of Wikia. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 21:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC).
{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= Probably, as for me, I quite often use the [http://www.jedipedia.de/wiki/index.php/Jedipedia:Hauptseite Jedipedia], the german version of the Star Wars-wiki. Although they're interlinked with the Wookieepedia they're not on Wikia themselves...}}

Well, maggosh stopped the fricken' revote, so now that is useless, and, guys:  THE WHOLE POINT OF MOVING IS SO THAT THE WIKIA WIKI REMAINS HERE TO BE CHANGED IN A MANNER THAT MAKES IT MORE FAN BASED.  HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE BLOODY PREVIOUS CONVERSATION?  KRYTEN IS RIGHT, CAPSLOCK IS FUN.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

{{ST|text=really, i thought it was all about sending wikia a message on what happens when it doesn't listen to its community. anyways, i think allowing fan-based content here would be pointless. we already have a fanon wiki}}
{{LA|Vtext=.....again.

"fanon" =/= "fan-based"

"fanon" is events or concepts interpreted or simply invented by "fans". This usually implies alternate or made-up stories, not speculation on actual events. If you look at the actual fanon wiki, we have a strict ban on almost everything that could be even ''considered'' canon, meaning that the opportunity to add fan-thought-of material on the ''actual'' series is pretty slim.

Meanwhile, "fan-based" means that the community and the "fans" get more of a part to play on the wiki, which includes adding sections with more speculation (such as harmless "Theory" pages). This is as opposed to a strict "official, confirmed only" rule, like we have now. "fan-based" could also be more open to technically "unofficial" images, such ripped renders and such (of course, there'd be a limit to what could be used and what not).

And quite honestly, I would like it if the wiki really toned down our "official only" policy. Speculation, while it distracts from the real article, is interesting in some forms. However, too much of it is an eyesore.}}

{{ST|text=you put any at all, and it's not an encyclopedia, it's a fan-site, and considering how Wikipedia is supposed to be the online encyclopedia, that kinda defeats the whole point, now doesn't it}}
{{LA|Vtext=...*facepalm*

Are you even listening? That's what we've been discussing for the past week: Making this wiki into a fansite so that the new one can be the official, high-class encyclopedia one, seeing as that's clearly the direction wikia wants to go with this new layout.

Also, wikia =/= wikipedia.}}

Bloody hell, what does everyone keep saying the word "official"?  '''We are not official in any way'''.  Seriously guys, if we were the official KHWiki, SE would be hosting us, not Wikia.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

{{Superdog1123|time=04:03, November 9, 2010 (UTC)|ven=Okay, so, because the re-vote was denied, what's the current status of the move? I see we're still stuck on whether to fanon-ize this site or not. I personally think that's not as important as where we're going and when that's going to happen (obviously the how has been discussed, but if anyone wants to paraphrase that as well, by all means I won't stop you).}}
{{LA|Vtext=Well, let's talk about re-vote. It was shot down because it was too early to open it.

So... should we have a re-vote? I say yes.}}
{{JFHavoc|time=05:32, November 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=I also agree to a re vote! I do not believe that all suitable options were available in the main vote. (Not counting the fact that there was a category for specifying ''anything''). So it's more like, not all suitable options were ''known'' at the time of the original vote... or whatever. I second the re vote, just saying.}}
{{neumannz|time=06:45, November 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Same. It would be nice if Maggosh included <s>an explanation of his declination</s> a reason why he blocked the re-vote.

I think creating a "Theories" namespace would be a brilliant idea. I realized while I was thinking it over that I myself would have a number of essays I could contribute along those lines, just from stuff I've been mulling every so often. Making this more community based would be an excellent move.

BUT THAT IS NOT FANON. Fanon is the invention and insertion of random/fan-created characters/concepts/events into the established storyline, i.e. FAN-FREAKING-FICS. THOSE are what the KH Fanon Wiki are about, fan fictions. If you want to merge it with this wiki after the move, then whatever, though I doubt I'll have any patience to contribute to it in that case. I already don't.

And the most important thing isn't really to send Wikia a message of any kind, but rather to find an environment where we can do our thing without having to worry about interference from the proverbial Man. It doesn't matter a lick to the relocated wiki what happens to what's left behind, as long as it doesn't step on our toes by trying to compete as an encyclopedia.}}
{{LA|Vtext=Also, I think the option of merging fanon wiki and KH wiki is slim for a couple reasons. From what i gather, our community here isn't too thrilled about the idea, and neither is the one on the fanon wiki. The KH Wiki in no way owns the fanon wiki. It is a separate bar with its own community and should be treated as such. Everyone on fanon wiki that I've asked is not interested in a merging, anyway.

I agree with Neumannz ^_^

Just thought I'd point that out. Let's not get off topic. Now, re-voting. Shall we have one?}}

{{LightRoxas|text=Yes we should have a revote, I've changed my mind. We should also have a vote about what to do with this space.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=22:13, November 9, 2010 (UTC)|talk=<!-- Creating a new section because navigating this is bullsh*t. --> I agree on the re-vote. <!-- Why the hell did you decline, maggosh? You could have at least explained yourself instead of blindly assuming the Devil's Advocate. -->}}
{{MV|time=[[User:Master Vantius|Master Vantius]] 22:38, November 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=The decision to move is said and done.  I think, we should vote over the fate of this wiki and what direction the new one will take.  I personally would input my 2 cents to theory pages about plot holes and questions regarding the series.}}

{{ST|text=unfortunately this has already been discussed. The re-vote would be called if all those who had voted above agreed to it, and with Maggosh saying that he was against the re-vote, the motion failed. sorry guys, no re-vote}}
{{LA|Vtext=<s>Cite your sources, please. When did maggosh ''say'' that he was against it? Just because he closed the page doesn't mean he's ''against'' it.</s> Disregard that completely.}}

Popping in here for a second. You aren't having a re-vote because one person who voted originally, doesn't want another vote? I fail to see the logic in how that is fair. One could easily deny the re-vote just because the option they would vote for anyway, was the winner of the previous vote. I do not, personally, know what he voted for but, does that really matter? It is still unfair on the aforementioned basis.--[[User:Zyeriis|Zyeriis]] 03:25, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I know I'm just an anon, and thus my opinion may not be taken very seriously. I've been a visitor and reader (I've even made some edits) of this wiki for some time now. I completely understand and agree with the decision to move. I like the Square-Enix Portal idea the most, as that seems to benefit the most wikis, including yourselves. I also agree with Zyeriis, just because maggosh doesn't want a re-vote, that automatically means the rest of you can't? Shouldn't the majority rule? The majority ruled with the original vote, so why can't the majority rule with the vote on taking a re-vote? Again, I'm just an anon, but I have been reading this thread for while, since about a week before Oasis became the default. [[Special:Contributions/66.215.20.249|66.215.20.249]] 03:44, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So do we have a plan yet, or no?Mar 03:45, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So yeah...um...Like that anon, I'm not much more than a casual user, and sometime editor (ffwiki, obliviowiki, wowwiki, not here yet), but like many others despise the changes wikia has been making. Personally, I feel moving is probably best for the quality of the wiki. Irregardless, I have to agree with Zyeriis; it's pretty crazy that there isn't going to be a revote because just 1 person doesn't want to...I could understand if half the people didn't...but this is just one person...it's clear that a revote is wanted... [[User:Eyestothesky|Eyestothesky]] 05:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|nathan=Granted. *snaps fingers*}}
:Okay, guys, I don't think you understand how the revote decision was working. In real life, if you don't like the results of an election, you can't just say, "Well, the previous vote didn't count", and keep voting until you get what you want. The revote decision wasn't a vote in and of itself, it was a statement that those who voted last time ''wanted their votes thrown out''. That's not a decision that anyone but them can make, and it's not fair to have them be ignored just because you don't agree with their vote.
:But anyway, maggosh has rescinded his declination, so as soon as the other voters agree to the revote, it can proceed. (Arg, right as I had arranged free time to install on wikkii, too.)[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 13:46, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

::Well that was the point...I don't understand. Your example isn't identical to this situation for starters. <i>Note: I am completely aware that "arguing" further about this, is absolutely pointless but I have some free time while I am relaxing after work.</i> How do I put this...why would someone agree to the re-vote, if what they previously chose, won. The other people who clearly wish to change their vote based on previously unknown options (the options were options prior to the original vote, they were just not on the ballot) would cause this person to make sure that they get their way by simply saying no to the re-vote (You are voting on whether or not to re-vote, which I simply can't seem to understand). How is re-voting, ignoring their votes? Are the banned from re-voting as well? Again, I completely fail to see how "wanting their votes thrown out" is any different than re-voting.--[[User:Zyeriis|Zyeriis]] 21:20, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|nathan=Well, Kryten, I hate to ruin your free time; I could resend my declination.}}
:Oh please Got no.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 16:47, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= I've no problem with a revote, since originally I just voted pro-moving in general and not specifically '''where''' to go. Since I'm relatively new and not that knowledgeable in technical terms of wikis I refrained from choosing a moving destination because I don't know which serves KH Wiki best. Although I admit I'm quite fond of that idea with the Square Enix Portal, the question is: Is this the best solution for KH-Wiki? And if it is don't we need the FF-Wiki, Dragon Quest-Wiki and other Square-Wiki's on board too?
If we really do a re-vote and someone could enlighten me a bit more on the differences between Wikii, the Square Portal and/or private hosting and other options I may be able to cast a more specific vote.
I just want the best for the wiki come out of it...nothing more...}}
:Here is what lies in front of you, based on the amount i've learned in the past month: 
:# Move to an independent server - [http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Moving#Pros.2FCons_and_Options See this for a list of Pro's and Cons]. 
:#* a) Move to prople's server - Don't need to pay for his service, and he is an experienced wiki host (He owns [http://www.mariowiki.com/ SMW], [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Main_Page SSB Wiki]). 
:#* b) Move to an independent server (other than prople's) - Pay for service if not externally hosted by a benefactor. 
:# Move to another Wiki farm - have a similar to the one relationship with Wikia, but with better staff. Don't have to pay for their service, as it is ad based. [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance#Are_there_alternatives_to_Wikia_for_hosting.3F See this] for more information
:#* a) Move to shoutwiki - one of the most popular Wiki farms.
:#* b) Move to Wikkii - Seems to be a [http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=448.0 decent Warm]. 
:# Stay here and learn to deal with the skin
:I hope i explained this well. If not, i could try explaining it again. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 20:37, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= Thank you, Bud0011, i'll take a detailed look at it. That'll help me to get a clearer picture.}}
:Happy to help. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 22:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC).

{{The Inexistent|text='''Okay, can we start this again, please?  From all my experience of dining with old people, I've noticed that the more time they have to look at the menu, the more they change their minds.  SO, with that in mind, can we reorder with our new selections before the chef gets too far along with our previous order?  BUT, we can't think about it for ''too'' long, or else we'll want to order something different from this preverbiale menu.  So, can we just revote, as I'm sure a lot of others are going to be voting for private hosting through a SEIWA idea.  Thank you.'''}}
:For any one who doesn't know, See [[Forum:Square_Enix_Portal|here]] for the SEIWA idea. 
:Also, Do you guys plan on making a new thread for revoting? [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 08:27, November 12, 2010 (UTC).

I agree with the revoting. I really hate how Oasis is forcing people to move. I don't want to move because the only wiki sites I go to are NIWA, Wikipedia, and Wikia. I don't want to move to a new wiki site. The anons could create accounts can't they? And also turning this into a fanon wiki would drive away people who want facts and research. Also people could get used to it after a while, although it could take longer it is pretty awful. There are a few people who like it. I am not ready to move. I would revote to stay on wikia. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 01:54, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Sean... what are you not getting here?   We are not moving ''just'' because of Oasis.  And you mentioned that you mainly visit Wikipedia (not a Wikifarm site), Wikia (obviously), and the NIWA.  We want to make our ''own'' version of the NIWA with Square Enix wikis.  And what is wrong with moving to a new sight?  '''We are not losing any info, or Monaco.  The only thing we will lose are our edit counts, but a good editor shouldn't really care about that.'''  And dude, anons can create accounts on every thing that runs MediaWiki.  Or do you mean that the anons could edit?  Because, if you haven't noticed, they do that here, too.  '''Next, THIS IS NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A FANON WIKI.  HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE ABOVE CONVERSATION?  And the other point of that is that people come to the new site for the facts and information.'''  After delibarating for so long now, most people have decided that moving is the '''''better''''' option.  Please consider what I have said.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

On an unrelated note, this reminds me of the American Civil War. Everyone thinks it was because of slavery (our Oasis), when it was honestly that and a lot more. Hear that, Sean? --{{SilverCrono/Sig}} 02:44, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Except Inexistent's wrong, this '''''is''''' all about Oasis, that and the fact that Wikia doesn't listen to it's own community. We may try and say it's something more than that, but in truth it really isn't. I mean seriously, do you mean to tell me that if Wikia suddenly opened it's ears and brought Monaco back this second and everything went back to the way it was, you would still be adament about moving?--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 02:50, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 03:18, November 13, 2010 (UTC)|text=Wikia has [http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=143.0 A history] of negative relations and business practices. It is just now, the users and contributer's are realizing it.}}

Well, like Silva said, this is like the Civil War.  Sure, Oasis sparked it, but it lead us to see other things, like our expansion requiring something more, and Wikia's unfair hosting practices.  And, through this dividing war, we have seen the fact that we can now be better off another way.  So ''yes'', Oasis started this movement, but it isn't the '''whole''' problem.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

When you aren't forced to look at it, you don't tend to notice it. If Wikia is jerking us around discreetly from the shadows, the end-users don't notice it. Plop a new skin that ruins ''everything'' in front of them, and they'll revolt. That's what's going on here--because people can see the change now, they look at the bigger picture and see just what Wikia's doing. <span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 04:37, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
:WE WILL NOT LOSE OUR EDIT COUNTS. IT IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE TO EXPORT '''EVERYTHING''', AND IT HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY.
:OASIS IS THE CULMINATION OF WIKIA'S SLEIGHTS AGAINST CONTENT.
:ARG.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 06:45, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Arg.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 23:43, November 13, 2010 (UTC)


{{LapisScarab|time=00:08, November 14, 2010 (UTC)|text=Stay on topic, people. Overdramatic hyperbole like "this is war" don't help any. Sean, you're derailing the conversation again. Literally all you will be doing different once we move is typing in/favoriting a different web address. Also, we are not revoting the ''move'', we are revotin where we'll move ''to''.}}
{{LA|Vtext=I thought that that was the thing we were revoting on in the first place...!}}
There's no reason to revote on ''whether'' to move, nothing has changed. The revote was because the option of private hosting w/ SEIWA was brought up after the original votes.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 00:48, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Ex''act''ly. I thought everyone was aware of that? =_= --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 00:49, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
::Apparently SeanWheeler was not, but he doesn't seem to read any of the comments anyway, so there's no reason to be surprised.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}00:53, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 00:54, November 14, 2010 (UTC)|text=So, are you guys getting funding from SEIWA? i was unaware of this.}}
:Okay, maybe it is turning "fan-based" and not "fanon". But haven't you read Bud's three choices? The third one was "to stay here and deal with the skin." Oh and about the last comment, I don't know if we are getting funding or not. A wiki gets funds from those advertisements right? Well I don't trust ads. Let's just get back on topic. Are we revoting or not? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 15:25, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 18:03, November 14, 2010 (UTC)|text=Yes, the there is going to be a revote. But they want to understand the options in order to run a better vote this time around, before actually running it}}
{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=00:30, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|inverse=I believe the choices are what you said in the above comments:
:#Move to an independent server
:#* a) Move to prople's server 
:#* b) Move to an independent server 
:# Move to another Wiki farm
:#* a) Move to shoutwiki
:#* b) Move to Wikkii

I think that’s all that anyone’s proposed so far. Forgive me if I’ve left out anything.}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 01:26, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|text=nope, i think you've got everything covered.}}

You forgot no. 3: "Stay here and deal with the skin". [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 20:45, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|flint=Sean, one more time and we'll have to deem you illiterate.}}

HAVE YOU PAID ANY DAMN ATTENTION?  Sean, please, listen to me ''this'' time.  Nothing is changing, except the address you type in at the top of the screen.  Kryten even said that Wikia will let us use Monaco.  Heck, Wikia might even be proud enough to let us port in Oasis for those who really think that it is beneficial.  BUT, on top of that, we are moving '''''FOR SURE'''''.  The revote is for '''''WHERE TO MOVE'''''.  We're moving no mater what, comprende?  {{The Inexistentsig}}

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=01:31, November 16, 2010 (UTC)|skinny=Sean, I’m gonna say this the nicest way that I can. We’ve already decided to move. The question is where. We are looking for where to move now, because we are '''for sure''' that we are moving. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki community is moving no matter what. We are moving. Thank you for kindly reading this message. You get it now? :)}}

Can someone clarify if you guys are moving? /sarcasm Are you going to re-vote anytime soon, seems like things aren't progressing at all at the moment.--[[User:Zyeriis|Zyeriis]] 01:39, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=02:08, November 16, 2010 (UTC)|ffx=we’re just summing up our choices and making them as clear as possible. Yes there will be a revote on where to go but I don’t know when it will take place.}}

{{ST|text=hopefully soon. I have to agree with Zyeriis, it ''does feel lke we're going nowhere with this}}

Part of the reason we're not getting anywhere is because some people have decided to completely ignore the previous comments and explainations [cough] SeanWheeler [cough], and we have to keep explaining the same thing over and over again<!--It's like he's trying to filibuster us-->. Comments like that aren't helping move the discussion along either, Zyeriis. I don't know why people insist on asking if we've decided this yet. When we do it will be made known to the entire wiki, you don't need to keep bogging down the forum by asking the same questions.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:26, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well... why don't we make a seperate page for the revote (say, Where will we go?/Revote), so that it remains pure voting, and the <s>useless</s> discussion can stay on this page.  <!---Agreed, well put, Lapis.--->  {{The Inexistentsig}}

@Lapis: All the more reason, trying to discuss things on this page is pointless. If people aren't reading the page, it's because it's too long. What I fail to comprehend is why there hasn't been a page created for the revote yet, with all of the information clearly listed rather than scattered throughout this and other pages. As for bogging down the forum...I'm not really sure where I've repeatedly asked the same question(s). I may have brought up a similar question or the same question once before but I don't think that counts as bogging anything down. If you weren't refering to me in particular I don't think you should've used the word: "you". Again, I am having a difficult time understanding a discussion that appears to be stuck in a loop when it would be much simpler to create the re-vote page with the aforementioned information, and when someone asks, direct them there, rather than expect them to sift through this entire page. --[[User:Zyeriis|Zyeriis]] 03:14, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

I was referring to commentors like you and SeanWheeler who, instead of just reading the forum and seeing that their questions have been asked and answered several times before, ask them again, ''which bogs down the discussion''. And they would know that they were doing this is they ''bothered to read the forum''. We're not typing this for our own amusement. This is an important subject; if you're too lazy to read the bloody thing, you shouldn't be taking part in the discussion. I don't mean to sound hostile, but I'm fed up with this. This discussion ''is'' stuck in a loop, and it is the same type of repetitive questions you are asking thathas caught it in that loop.

Ugh, anyway, that's a good idea, The_Inexistent. Though I'm giving fair warning here; repetitive questions like this added to ''that'' forum will either be moved here or just flat out removed if it happens enough times. We need to get this settled.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:29, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

:SO, since the revote is set to go ahead, and we keep going in circles, and we've gone through our options several times, [[Forum:Where will we go?/Revoting|I went ahead and made the revote page]].  Please don't get angry at me, but where I come from, if someone doesn't do something once they think of it, it doesn't get done at all.  NOTICE, though, that I said that the admins control its running, so don't do anything stupid.  And, no, Sean, Staying is NOT an option.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

==Yes, No, Don't Know?==

So as a casual visitor to this Wiki, I've been following this discussion with some confusion and don't really have any clear understanding. Is this Wiki actually moving or not? Yes? No? Don't know? As for me, I like most of the changes that have been made to Wikia - I find most of them very helpful and don't really miss what was taken away anymore. [[User:Agent0042|Agent0042]] 16:35, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 18:01, November 14, 2010 (UTC)|text=yes, they are moving. But they don't know where to yet. They are planing on doing a full revote, but they want to fully understand all options avalbile to them, so they don't have another vote like the first.}}
:Thanks, that clears it up. I'll keep an eye out and watch for the revote. [[User:Agent0042|Agent0042]] 04:21, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 04:42, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|text=You're welcome. And happy to help.}}
:I have one other question - once the move happens, what happens to the content that's at this address? I mean, obviously, if we're moving, then that would mean something goes from here to somewhere else. So does everything on here just get deleted, at which point the address kingdomhearts.wikia.com becomes an empty shell, ready for someone else to swoop in, should they decide that they want to be the one to host the Wiki for ''[[Kingdom Hearts (series)|Kingdom Hearts]]'' on Wikia? [[User:Agent0042|Agent0042]] 11:05, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 17:04, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|text=Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is this wiki will still remain as is - minus a active community to keep it up. One could, in theory delete all the pages in the wiki, but Wikia may catch wind of it and then do what they can to stop it. [http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We're_merging_with_Lylat_Wiki!_All_users_report!#Note_from_Wikia Look here], where Wikia tells another wiki that the Wikia Wiki will "remain open for whoever decides to remain."}}
:I see. Well, in that case, it seems to me that someone who's perfectly fine with the layout as is could easily request adminship from Wikia and maintain a Wiki at this address. [[User:Agent0042|Agent0042]] 17:45, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 18:27, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|text=Very true. And if anyone does that, i Wish them the Best of Luck. My personal Opinions are against Wikia, the company. I have no problems with the people who operate Wikis on them.}}.
: :) So, do I, wish them the best of luck. I'd consider it myself if it weren't for the fact that I have almost no edits here, though that's mainly a matter of just choosing to focus on other projects, rather than a lack of knowledge. [[User:Agent0042|Agent0042]] 19:47, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 20:04, November 15, 2010 (UTC)|text=Yea, i mainly here to show support for the independent option and to help in the formation of the [[Forum:Square Enix Portal|Square Enix Portal]]}}.

As a matter of fact, one of the major debates right now is what will become of this address. You can read more about that further up this page.--[[Special:Contributions/66.215.20.249|66.215.20.249]] 02:17, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

===Why?===
Im sorry but i do not understand whats going on, this is ridiculous, why do we need to move, what benefit will we gain?, and i dont see any need for Fanon, the wiki's are about information, this is a wiki first [[User:Rhysno1|Rhysno1]] 16:43, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

{{Lapidoth|text=Just read above so we don't have to explain this all '''again'''.}}
{{LA|Vtext=What Lapidoth said. Seriously.

Also, i think the idea is that we're trying to make the Kingdom Hearts Wiki-Wiki ''less'' wiki-ish. I think it's a way of spitting in wikia's faces after we move the official stuff. But seriously, Fanon wiki and Kh Wiki '''aren't''' merging. I've cleared it up with the community there.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=20:55, November 17, 2010 (UTC)|text=It's not to spit in Wikia's faces, it's because Oasis isn't well suited for what we use the "official" Wiki for. It's more facebook/fan oriented.}}
{{ST|text=Please, that's just an excuse and you know it. I know it's not a bad thing to want to keep up a good image and stuff, but let's face it, we're only doing this to get back at Wikia for not listening to us and forcing this gawd-awful skin on us. don't try and dress it up as something it's not. Anyway, i think we should just go back to the "Delete this wiki entirely after we've copied everything" plan since Kryten just proved to Sannse that we have every right to do so}}
{{KrytenKoro|...no. Oasis is facebook-oriented. It is designed to attract those with no more than a passing interest in the material, and those without rigorous standards. Yes, there is vindictive satisfaction to be had in giving wikia exactly what they asked for, whether it's good for them or not, but when I suggested the fan stuff, it was to give a purpose to the people saying "I'll stay behind, but this place will be a graveyard." And what I "proved to Sannse" was that her claims that we could not rewrite the wiki for that focus were not only absurd, but totally contradicted by the ToU.

Also, re:revote -

'''''<big>IF PEOPLE WANT IT TO PROCEED, THEY NEED TO WORK ON TALKING TO THE PREVIOUS VOTERS. UNTIL I GET A SOLID GO-AHEAD, I WON'T START THE REVOTE, AND UNTIL I GET A SOLID DON'T GO AHEAD, I WILL NOT START THE INSTALLATION AT WIKKII. THE CURRENT OUTCOME IS "SIT HERE, DO NOTHING", WHICH NOBODY WANTS.</big>'''''}}

{{ST|text=oh, ok i misread the conversation there.<small> <small>i still think the "vindictive satisfaction" from "spitting in the face of wikia" came first, but that's just me</small></small>}}
Yes. Yes, it is just you.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 22:49, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
{{LA|Vtext=Yes, thank you Kryten.

ShadowsTwilight: No, let's NOT delete the wikia-KHWiki. If the wikia-khwiki to take up on my idea and add Theory namespace, then I'm totally looking forward staying behind and participating in that. <small>But if we aren't, then screw the place; I'm leaving.<small><small> I can write irritatingly small text too!</small></small></small>

EDIT: I also don't get why these people ''don't'' want to try a SEIWA. To the people who haven't replaced their names, can you please shed some light for me?}}
{{Soxra|text=They haven't replaced their names most likely because they don't know it's up for a revote. Time to post on their talk pages, methinks.|time=01:23, November 18, 2010 (UTC)}}

{{ST|text=Just so I know I've got this right, SEIWA Square Enix's official Kingdom Hearts Wiki, or something along those lines, correct?<small><small><small>EDIT:hooray for irritatingly small text X3</small></small></small>}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 02:53, November 18, 2010 (UTC)|text=SEIWA isn't official Square Enix Anything. It is, or plans to be, a group of Wiki's Focused on Square Enix Wiki's, that help and support each other in terms of Edits, content templates, etc. as well as any wiki that comes looking for help. These wiki's are independent of any Wiki farms, either through donations, beneactors, or ads. See [[Forum:Square_Enix_Portal]] for more details. }}

{{Superdog1123|time=04:03, November 18, 2010 (UTC)|ven=Kryten, who still has not posted that they want a re-vote? Unless I'm mistaken, everyone's put their name down...}}

{{ST|text=Everyone except for JFHavoc, LightRoxas, Riku's Love, ShardofTruth, and SilverCrono}}
{{LapisScarab|time=04:44, November 18, 2010 (UTC)|text=I messaged all of them earlier today, but not everyone can be online 24/7. Give it a day or two, they should show up.}}
{{JFHavoc|time=16:10, November 18, 2010 (UTC)|text=There we go. If Lapis hadn't messaged me I probably would've forgotten about the whole thing.}}
{{LA|Vtext=Okay, I just asked a user on the IRC who is a personal friend of Riku'sLove to ask her about her opinions on the SEIWA. Apparently, RL is grounded for two weeks and cannot get to a computer. We talked about it on the IRC, but I forgot to log the conversation, as I was in a hurry when I was leaving. Anyway, [[User talk:LegoAlchemist#Hello|here]] is the message, with conformation of her consent. Can we consider this official, or should we get it from Riku's mouth directly?}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 05:42, November 19, 2010 (UTC)|text=Hey guys, wanted to inform you, if you didn't already know, to make sure you put up [http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page a notice on your main page] about the wiki moving. Since the sitenotice doesn't appear in the new skin. }}

Aw man, why couldn't they put the site notice on Oasis? The site notice is important. So, would the anons have to go to [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] to read it?

''''''''''''''<big>I HATE OASIS!!!</big>'''''''''''''' [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 23:45, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=01:11, November 20, 2010 (UTC)|seasonal=Ok, now that Sean is done with his unnecessary and rather brief rant, I really do think that we should put some sort of notice on the main page. Almost everyone on the wiki’s here, but some newly registered users might not know. I've put some sort of notice on my userpage, but it's barely anything.}}
{{Soxra|text=Do we also know where LightRoxas is...? Riku's Love is away for a week or two, and LightRoxas hasn't had any contributions for almost 6 days. Can't we forgo them for the sake of our sanity with regards to the revote?|time=02:11, November 20, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{LA|Vtext=RL has already agreed. Are my talk bubbles invisible or something?}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 03:09, November 20, 2010 (UTC)|text=Maybe they're collapsible? [hide]}}
{{LA|Vtext=(Thatwas a joke)}}

{{LightRoxas|text= Sorry, I had school stuff. I've signed now.}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 03:42, November 20, 2010 (UTC)|text=As was mine.}}
{{Soxra|text=No, Lego, I saw your message. I even talked to RoxasXIIILK... but no consensus has ever been reached. RL is the last vote, and we're all anxious to get this show on the road...|time=04:01, November 20, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Maggosh|nathan=So, you ''didn't'' see his message.}}
{{Soxra|text=Yes, I did. We ''never'' decided whether or not word-of-mouth counted as RL's vote.|time=04:52, November 20, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{LA|Vtext=Maybe RoxasXIILK can give us some help.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Personally, I think we should wait for RL out of respect, but we should start the new revote forum, with summaries of every option and everything we know. ''However, it should be edit-protected until the vote is opened''. It would be nice if one of the staff could start it tonight, but I'll work on it tomorrow if it's not up yet.}}

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=17:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)|skinny=I completely agree. Though I completely trust RoxasXIIILK, I just feel like RL should be here, saying it herself. She’s just too…well you know what I mean. Wasn’t a revote forum [[Forum:Where will we go?/Revote|already made]], but apparently we don’t have clearance for it yet?}}
{{LA|Vtext=Well, it seems RL has come back... all we can do is wait for her to come here and leave her opinions.}}
{{Keyblade0|time= 20:52, November  25, 2010|text=  Sheeeeee's back! :) Now the revote can proceed! :D}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 21:02, November 25, 2010 (UTC)|text=Excellent! Please, Tell me if there is something i can help with in the revote.}}
{{LA|Vhappy=Excellent, we now have RL's consent. the Revote can commence!

Also, I have a template that could be used for a theory sub-page. [[User:LegoAlchemist/Lab#Theory namespace tables|Here it is]]. What do you guys think?}}
{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=17:13, November 26, 2010 (UTC)|darkcookies=its really good, lego. Ok let’s begin with the revotation! :D}}

== May we commence already? ==
{{LA|Vtext=I think the titles says it all. This place has been nearly inactive for about a week - the notion is passed, we can proceed with the revote.

So.... when are we going to do it?}}
{{LapisScarab|time=01:42, December 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=[[Forum:Revote|The revote forum was created a few weeks ago]], but the revote isn't open yet from what I understand. Seems like they're still compiling the information about all our options.}}
{{Bud0011|time = [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 03:24, December 3, 2010 (UTC) | text = Last i heard, they wanted to make sure they knew all their options in as much detail as can be used. Although...that was a week or two ago. Maybe the holidays cuught up with them? }}
{{Soxra|ienzo=I suppose something like that could be. We just want to make sure all users are informed about the potential pros and cons of each move. For example, it was just an hour ago that DTN posted about speed issues on ShoutWiki. I think that's a pretty important detail.

I do agree though, I would like to get this show on the road. But we have to have patience. Rome wasn't <s>moved from Wikia</s> built in a day.|time=03:26, December 3, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{LapisScarab|time=03:30, December 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=According to the Wikipedia article on Rome I just edited<!--no, not really-->, it was built in exactly seventeen hours by Santa Claus, Chuck Norris, and Jesus. Arnold Schwarzeneggar was there too, but he was busy getting the coffee.}}
{{Soxra|ienzo=I don't believe you. Jesus would never work with Santa.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 03:34, December 3, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{LA|Vtext=Guys, wake up! Can an admin please acknowledge that we're ready to start the vote already? It's been over a week, we have plenty of info on the possible hosts. Let's get on with it!}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 20:02, December 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Eh, i still not sure on the accuracy of the information under the options.}}
{{Soxra|xmas=Actually I'm thinking that it's just about ready to vote, in all honesty. Bud, which information are you unsure of?|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 02:51, December 8, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 03:39, December 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=Well, for one thing, it says "Allows the same as SEIWA." under Wikkii. Wikkii is a wiki farm, so it wouldn't "Independent". Unless you go with the advanced hosting. Then i'd be worrying about the fine print. And i would worry about them pulling another wikia.

Also, in the SEIWA / Kingdom Hearts DB option, the owner has a lot to loose if he becomes a despot; a lot more to loose than any wiki-farm that is. So, i am not sure it would be an issue.}}
{{Soxra|ienzo=That's probably true. I'm not sure what exactly that was supposed to mean, unless it is saying that we get the same freedom (in terms of themes, privacy control, data management rights, and so on).

It is doubtful the owner of SEIWA would become a despot, however it's just a possibility we have to keep in mind.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 05:26, December 8, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 06:29, December 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=Sorry, i wasn't clear; I am re-reading it now, and i see where the problem was; Wikkii is a wiki farm. It has a [http://wikkii.com/wiki/Advanced_Hosting advanced hosting option], that if you take, is similar to the guy who owns DB is offering. 

However, unlike the DB Guy, Wikkii has a lot less to loss, should they pull a wikia.

Is this better? }}

Another reason to speed up the revote: The new template viewing system that just got rolled out has made it so that talk bubbles pop in and out of view, unless you click a button. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 22:52, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

{{Soxra|mad=Wow... yeah. Oasis is hanging Internet Explorer too (I use Chrome mostly, but I use IE for testing the Oasis skin on my profile and such).

It's time to break the mould. Let's revote.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 22:59, December 8, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 06:14, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Sounds good. Out of curiosity, Was my second attempt at an explanation, any good?}}
{{Soxra|text=Yes. That's actually a better way of highlighting the 'government' of one option versus the other.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 17:51, December 9, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Bud0011|time=[[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 19:18, December 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=Cool. Now, my next question. What are the minimum requirements of voting?}}
{{Soxra|ienzo=I'll leave Kryten (or another admin) to confirm this, but I believe all will be allowed to vote in the new vote. It shouldn't just be restricted to high edit counts or to people who voted last time; we want as accurate of a cross-section of our community as we can get.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 20:23, December 9, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=00:05, December 11, 2010 (UTC)|basic=come on already! geez i CANNOT wait for this to be ready! sigh. I sure hope we'll get to vote before the new year! :D I'm not sure how much information we need but it alls seems good enough don't ya think?}}
{{Soxra|ienzo=Yup. =\|time={{User:Soxra/Sig}} 19:05, December 11, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{Keyblade0|time=18:31, December 12, 2010 (UTC)|happy=I hope we can start soon. If they wait any longer, we'll have to do the revote next year! Also, shouldn't someone archive most of this page, or start a new forum? This page is getting longer by the day.}}
{{LightRoxas|axel=Ok, seriously, how much longer are we gonna wait?! The last post here was from mid-December, and we haven't heard anything on the move since then, except people saying January is our last month on this wiki. What are we even waiting for?}}