Editing Forum:Restoration of my Rights

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

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{{ENX|time=22:02, 6 February 2015 (UTC)|hooded=So according to the staff policy, forcibly retired staff/staff who go on extended leaves of absence must be active consistently for a two-month period before their rights will be restored to them. I also recall reading at one point that a request need only be made for an administrator to be re-elected; I asked that we would discuss my return to adminship on today's Roundtable, where it was decided that it should be finalized/discussed on this forum, purely for the sake of archiving material and sourcing. I have met the requirements stated in the staff policy, and while I may not be able to edit every ''single'' day because I have returned to college, I plan to edit as often as I can, as often and as much as possible. I aim to do a better job welcoming new users and attending Roundtables when I can; these were also issues people seemed to have when I was last a part of the Wiki's staff. Before I humbly ask this Wiki to give me a second chance, I just wanted to say a few things:

*This past May, I was diagnosed with OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). This is chiefly an anxiety disorder, leaving the juicy details of my symptoms out, so that is why it may seem at times like I overreact to a situation on the Wiki in conversation with another editor or when fixing up articles. When people try to correct me, I view this (I can't help it, and it's not in my control) as a personal attack against me, hence my tendency to rudely lash out at others. OCD/anxiety is why I overreact to people in general and stand so firmly by my own opinions. My brain cannot handle things that most people can and does not take stress or criticism well. I tend to jump to conclusions, and to those I have hurt over the past few years that I have spent on the Wiki for one reason or another, now that you know the root cause of the problems between us, I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me.
*I have long sought to "begin again" on this Wiki and patch things up between myself and the users with whom I have had issues with. Looking back on things, I can see why some would find my behavior/reactions to things unjust and uncalled-for. I am truly sorry for any unprofessionalism, etc. that I have displayed in the past. I feel like I have created a rather negative reputation for myself amongst this site's community, and I would really like to change that. I would like to start fresh, with this hopeful re-election, and just say that I am sorry. 

I'm not trying to start a sob-story or pity party. I just genuinely have wanted to share my thoughts/feelings with this Wiki's community for a long time, and I see now as a perfect opportunity. This is a second chance for me to prove myself as an editor, an administrator, and most importantly, a friend, if you will just give me the chance. Here's to a new beginning, to the new me. Thank you to everyone for considering me again for adminship, as well as for giving me a place where I can share information about one of my most beloved video game series, the ''Kingdom Hearts'' Wiki. Whether people agree to give me this second chance or not, rest assured that I will forever remain a faithful, committed editor! And with that, I enter my corridor of darkness and leave this forum to the community.}}

{{KrytenKoro|As I've said many times, I'm of the opinion that anyone who's not ''abusing'' mod rights should have them -- if we have somebody flouting the community by blocking editors or deleting articles, they should lose the rights. Otherwise...I really don't see the benefit in not giving mod rights to every non-probationary editor. Basically, once we've confirmed they're not a vandal, they should at least have admin rights.

EDIT: To clarify, while ENX may have had friction with other editors in the past over conduct or content concerns, I am not aware of any misuse of the administrator tools, and fervently support his re-opping.}}
{{ENX|time=02:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC)|happy=Thank you, Kryten. Those issues I have had in regards to "conduct or content concerns" are exactly what I hope this community will allow me to call "water under the bridge" as I have my new beginning.}}
{{ShardofTruth|time=23:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC)|talk=I'm not sure why this is made so complicated for ENX. We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story.}}
{{ENX|time=12:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|text=My thoughts exactly, Shard. I don't mean to sound eager, but could we please settle this already?}}
{{neumannz|time=16:18, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|text=I really wish you ''didn't'' sound so eager, because my first instinct tends to be, if someone is trying ''really'' hard to get admin rights, they're probably ''not'' someone who should have them...

Look, as far as qualifications go, I don't have any problems. You've been a good editor here for easily as long as I have, periods of inactivity aside, and you know the ins and outs of this place.

I don't even really have a problem with the fact that you argue with other editors and staff. God knows we need healthy debate and all that.

If I have a problem, it's that you are incredibly rigid and seem to take things really personally. I suspect that that's a big factor behind the attitude you've had towards certain staff members in the past. (I have the impression I very likely exacerbated things at some point due to general frustration, so, sorry for that.) I'm glad you say you want to put all this behind you—and I sincerely hope that you will—but as of right now I don't know if that's not just lip service. I don't think we've ''seen'' any change in attitude yet. You seemed to have '''''seriously''''' strong feelings against said staff, and I don't think that kind of thing goes away so easily.

On the other hand, I don't think I can really give a good argument not to give you admin rights again. I can't imagine you abusing them to any degree, and if there isn't some degree of trust, there won't be much chance of moving forward. And it's not like having admin rights or not really changes how one approaches an argument, either.

So, yeah, if the general consensus is that you should have admin rights again, I'm alright with it. I just ask that you try to be a bit more open-minded on issues—the rest of us should, too—and that you talk out your problems with any given editor or staff with them, instead of going to the IRC to sling mud, which is ''really'' not cool.}}

{{RikutheBloody|time=16:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|angry=Say, if you do get these powers, what would you use them for?}}
{{ENX|time=19:11, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|hooded=All this fluff aside, I quote ShardofTruth: "...why [is] this [being] made so complicated for ENX[?] We have a policy, he acted accordingly, so a bureaucrat should restore his rights, end of story." I am ''not'' "being so desperate to get admin rights." I agree that a regular who decides being an admin would be cool, thus starts begging for the rights, should ''not'' have them. But that is not the case with me. I am merely stating that I have done as the policy stated, and I was asked on the IRC to make this forum. That is all. The only reason I have argued with people in the past is simply because we disagree. About a lot of things. Personalities clash. Sometimes it cannot be helped. In terms of "sounding eager," this is not about trying to do everything in my power to ensure my rights' return. Not at all. It's just that this forum is unnecessary in the first place, given the policy and the requirements I've met, and when the forum died, knowing how this community feels about me, I just knew the that we would pretend it didn't exist and let it gather dust. Because this concerns me, I have a right to want to know what's going on.

I honestly think, based on how everyone in this community treats me (people often seem to fail to see their own faults against me, it seems, hence our conflicts; everyone here is so self-righteous in one way or another, myself included), if I were anyone other than myself, then I would have had my rights back, having met the policy's requirements, by the time the roundtable ended, instead of having to go through this forum nonsense. I fail to see how this is anything other than singling out a person, targeting said individual because he is disliked overall for one reason or another, and going out of one's way to unnecessarily make his life more difficult. It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually ''encourages'' my inactivity. In fact, if I recall correctly, I was never even warned, as per the policy, when my rights were about to be taken away. I just logged in here at one point to find I was no longer an administrator...

I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor can a person completely change to please a community that is generally against him for whatever reason in one. That being said, I do not have animosity towards ANYONE on this Wiki. Sure, there are people I may not enjoy talking to simply because of how our conversations have faired in the past, but I have made every effort (personal messages, et cetera) to try to amend things with these people one-on-one, and all I get is the cold shoulder. I cannot show any change when people refuse to give me the chance, let alone actually look for said change. 

To understand my "problem," Neumannz, I encourage you to do some research on OCD. I do not expect you to care about me, my life, or anything of that nature. But understand that because of STUPID GENETICS, something I have no control over, I have never been good in social situations, and I guess that means the Wiki. I ''do'' take things personally and ''am'' easy to anger, but that is ''not'' my fault, as much as I try to keep things under control. What this community needs to understand is I try my best every day to "keep cool," et cetera. It is HOW someone approaches me with an issue that determines my response. For instance, someone saying "I don't think the image should go there...let me kindly help you understand why," is a LOT different than what everyone here keeps giving me, the typical "I'm right because I am, and you're wrong because A, B, C. Have a nice day, not that I care if you do or not." 

So you ask me to act in a way that I do not have the ability to based on OTHER PEOPLE's behavior, not just my own. Ask anyone on this Wiki I have ever been foolish enough to call a "friend" in the past: Xion4ever, Troisnyxetienne, NinjaSheik...these three in particular are the Wikians I find myself closest to, the ones who see the "real me" people like you and Kryten do not often get to witness simply by your own choosing. They know how to interact with me. They know how to have a civil conversation with me, even if it concerns a Wiki issue. My "lip service" (which was not, I assure you) was purely a request from my heart of hearts to the people here to just "grin and bear it." I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual. To hold all that against me, all those factors I had no say in, is just not fair. It is cruel. I am only asking that if we are to put our differences aside, that this Wiki's community take the extra effort to understand what I am going through, to see a side they did not know of before, and perhaps have some questions as to why I have behaved the way I have in the past answered. 

Of course I would not abuse my "powers." I never did before, so why would I now? To answer RTB's question, I would "use these powers" the way any admin should: to delete what needs to be deleted, move what needs to be moved, and protect the Wiki when it needs protecting. I can't tell you how many times I've been the only one online, been going through the recent changes, and seen a ton of poorly-made edits in need of rollback, thus I've been unable to do it. Or how many images that have been in need of deletion, but I have been unable to assist in any way. This Wiki did an excellent job of making me feel like I wasn't wanted, respected, et cetera. I constantly felt antagonized, like I was an administrator upon the formation of SEIWA simply to fill a slot. My opinions had no more merit, nor should they, but it was obvious who wanted to side with who, and for the most crazy reasons. 

That rant aside, I ''do'' want to put the past behind us and move forward. But I should not have to be on my knees begging for something that was stripped from me when I clearly met the requirements to get it back. The Wiki's several invisible loopholes to our policies really astound me...}}

This isn't my final or "real post," I'm just posting on here as a placeholder saying you'll see my comments later today. I'm in classes until tonight. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 20:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 20:32, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|default=I'm still forming my opinion and am somewhat conflicted, but let me just point out a few facts for now. Take them what you will:
*[http://www.khwiki.com/KHWiki:Roundtable#Meeting_15.2C_December_08.2C_2012_Summary_.5B16.5D You] [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII/Archive17#Staff_Inactivity were actually warned] of your potential demotion [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII/Archive17#Demotion_Notice three months] beforehand.
*One can revert edits without rollback, unless I'm mistaken?
*The staff policy is incredibly new and hasn't been put into effect yet. It's never been tried before and we always said it's not set in stone, so don't take it as a personal critique. It's just something we haven't done before. But yes, we probably should stick to it by this point.
</last point wasn't a fact>}}
{{KrytenKoro|Clarifying: I believe ''any'' editor who we can trust to not flippantly abuse the admin tools should have them. That should be considered ''separately'' from other transgressions, such as personal attacks or unwillingness to work with consensus, which would instead lead to blocks or bans (as I myself have recieved in the past), rather than demotion -- that behavior should only affect admin rights if the user is going to use them to evade the block by unblocking themselves. The only non-tool risk with admins that I know of, of promoting someone who decides to focus more on making their friends happy than maintaining any sort of quality to the wiki, is definitely absent here -- whether or not I agree with ENX on each issue, he's definitely editing based on his own convictions, rather than throwing his hands in the air and claiming that inaccurate trash edits should be kept simply because we don't want to "scare away" the offending editor. (This is a sidenote, I guess, it just...I've had to abandon wikis where I was even the bcrat before because I mistakenly promoted people who cared more about making friends than ensuring any kind of quality. Those kind of editors infuriate me.)

We're a small community, and we police the obvious vandals very efficiently. Frankly, it's more efficient to just give editors the ability to deal with problems as they come up, rather than having to wait for an admin to be available. If it helps, we can rename "admin" to "janitor", maybe. I'm putting forward a suggestion that all the active, non-frivolous editors get an admin position.

I'm not sure what I did to start getting yelled at here, but I guess my question is, ignoring any other complaints being brought up:

Does anyone have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the ''admin/janitor tools''?}}
:How about a vote? {{User:Byzantinefire/Sig}} 22:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=23:09, 9 February 2015 (UTC)|text=As I said before, I do not have any reason to believe ENX will abuse the tools.}}
{{Xion4ever|time=04:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)|text=Being a staff member means more than just having a new black Keyblade image on your userpage and a new title. It is even more than actual editing- though edits have a hardy say in the matter. However, one thing we- at least I tend to forget and have to remind myself sometimes- is that being a staff member is more than just editing. We're expected to be the role models, leaders, mature, have a hard work ethic, be encouraging, willingness to help others, neutral/level headed, knowing how to defuse/handle/compromise depending on the situation, and <insert other qualities here> of the Wiki. Welcoming new users and going to a Roundtable or two isn't enough to qualify a person as such. As for edits, it's no lie that numbers have never meant anything to me. I base such things mainly off of the quality. This isn't to say that I think people fixing categories/other "smaller"/"minor" edits don't count- they are definitely helpful and very much needed. However, for someone considering a staff position? A handful of grammar edits and little/no appearance on the IRC is not cool.

As for blaming- or rather, explaining- your medical conditions. That's actually pretty admirable to publish something so personal on the internet/international forums. Regardless, all of us have our own problems. Hell, if we're going by my family/"my" self, there's severe depression and anxiety. ''BUT'', we don't blame any problems/conflicts we have on such things or throw a hissy fit when things don't go our way. This means we either have to avoid/stop the sources which trigger our OCD/anxiety/whatever- in this case, to stop editing outright- or to find ways to manage it. Whether this means taking a day off to calm down or to reread a message/edit to compose our thoughts. Just stating that you have a "problem" and to expect others to unconditionally feel sorry for you or to excuse all of your actions-both present and past- is ridiculous. Sure, we'll be like "Oh hey, Xion is prone to being a jerk because she has anger issues" and lower the wrath/rock throwing a bit, but that doesn't excuse or condone me being a jerk. If you are that unstable or prone to "overreacting"/freaking out, what's to stop you from freaking out/mishandling an important staff duty (i.e. affiliation requests/meetings/etc.)?

As for "beginning again," you've tried/mentioned that every time you get on here every <nowiki>#</nowiki> month periods. This is proven not just in IRC logs but on here, spanning the course of ''years.'' So what's stopping it? Talk is cheap. Actually prove what you're saying. You've "talked the talk" to us for years but have yet to "walk the walk." To be quite honest, most people here that were around back when you first joined/"the old you" was around are myself, TNE, Neumannz, Kryten, maybe Pea, and NinjaSheik. Most of the "new" users here don't have a clue about the "old you." And even if they did, ''who cares?'' We've all done stuff on here we're not proud of/didn't reflect ourselves as best as we can be. So what? We've acknowledged that and made the proper apologies/adjustments/whatever. The only person stopping you from moving on is yourself. Besides, most people base other people on how that person acts in the most recent past/present time. On here that would mean like about a month or two.

The reason why this has mainly been postponed is exactly because of your behavior. As for begging for staff rights, it's been obvious since the first months you joined that you were mainly interested on becoming a staff [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:Xion4ever/Archive_7#May_the_best_User_Win member].
*"[16:54] <ENX> I feel like I was more productive as an admin." -> If you have to be a staff member in order to judge productivity/whatever, you need to recheck that. There are plenty of users that are not staff that are damn good editors. Heck, how do users become staff members anyways? They work hard and become damn good editors. A staff position isn't a kick start to someone's editing career or determines whether or not they serve a purpose on here. Everyone, even the trolls, serve a purpose here.

"[18:46] <Xion4ever> Man, name at least five people who view you negatively."

"[18:46] <ENX> I don't have to. Thankfully, most are inactive now."

"[18:47] <ENX> But I can't do anything to help or fix this Wiki I love and bring it back to its glory days, and it kinda gets me frustrated." -> Implying that without a staff position you can't be of use. What nonsense.

"It is this kind of hostility (intended or not, and how I see it, anyways...) that actually encourages my inactivity. " - If you're going to run away/go inactive anytime there is a problem/disagreement/argument on here, that's inconsistent activity and a waste of time to make you a staff member. Throwback to first paragraph words: level-headed, mature

"I do not think it is fair of you to judge a "change in attitude" when you have barely even looked for one." - Look for one? Why? You've just shown one right there. [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII#Re:Music_articles_first_sentence And there]. [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Magic_Hour&action=history And here]. [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII#RE:_Dark_Impulse Also here]. Need I go on? Notice how these are within the past two months- well after the "new you"'s arrival.

The whole paragraph in which you call out Neumannz to research OCD - Alright, we get it that you have OCD/"problems." We know that you're not intentionally trying to come off as a jerk or argumentative- no one ever does. I'll even go further to say we understand that you're trying your hardest to keep it "under control." But dang it, man, you can't blame every mishap or shortcoming in your life on said "problems." You think you're the only one with genetic disorders or "problems?" There are a lot of people with the same problems and those much more serious/problematic that find a way to make things work.

I can be a "foolish friend," Lord knows I'm a ton of other things, but between: "I cannot control my anxiety disorder, or how it makes me treat others, or how interactions with others have shaped me as an individual." and "[18:48] <ENX> And I guess other parts of the problem are I'm just too hard on myself and my expectations are too high. [18:49] <ENX> So I'm self-destructive to top things off." Again, if this is such a big problem why on earth should we put someone in a "high position" if they're going to be such a liability? That would be like letting a toddler drive a car. Counterproductive and quite dangerous.

As for the images that need deleted comment, Chainoffire and I wiped the articles for deletion category out last summer. As for the janitorial title, hand me a mop and a bucket and sign me up. I agree with Neumannz on all accounts.

And, just to make sure we do actually bury the hatchet this time. I'm calling out on all accounts so we can all duke it out and then get over it/heal. There is too much unspoken drama/problems here. Let it be known that if anyone ever has a problem with me, just say so. I'll listen and we can figure something out. But for pete's sake don't bottle that crap up and let it fester over time. '''''Or else we end up here.'''''
*[http://freetexthost.com/u3iunebdxc Log]

I don't think ENX would abuse the tools given to staff members. My main concern is the behavior. Even now we're still arguing over 'You guys should just "grin and bear it"' and 'We have a problem with your behavior.' To me, unless it is proven otherwise, I am against returning anyone's rights- even for current/active staff. Staff members are editors, yes, but we are so much more than that. Don't believe me? Check out other websites and even other Wikis. I recall one Wiki bashing DTN and summarizing our entire staff as morons/unprofessional all because they found him to be insulting/unprofessional. Notice that this isn't a final "you shall not pass" thing, but more of an extended probationary period. You keep saying you've changed/you're gonna change. What better encouragement is there to prove it? Until then, I vote no.

With all of this stuff said, guys... If I've fallen to a "low beyond low" from all of this, by all means someone ban/remove my staff rights/do something immediately. It was not my intent, but I completely understand and take full responsibility.}}
:Maybe just give ENX his staff rights regardless. {{User:Byzantinefire/Sig}} 04:34, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
{{ENX|annoyed=Administrator rights are not candy to be awarded for good behavior, as you seem to think, Xion4ever. It is malicious behavior that gets a user warned/banned, and have I been? No. Have any of my disputes/issues with other users reached the point where that has needed to happen? No. You site several small, rare instances where I have been at my worst, specifically ignoring my side of things, even as my so-called "friend." I'm not saying "You're my friend, so support me." I'm saying I believe you are acting harshly and leave me feeling rather betrayed, I must admit. The point here is this Wiki is breaking the policy for staff requesting their rights back (two months of activity that is beneficial to the Wiki), and I do not care how new it is. It still has been officially accepted and enacted, as per the Roundtable, and it needs to be enforced. The behavior thing is a separate issue, and again I raise my point that staff rights are purely for the maintenance of the Wiki. They are not brownie points awarded for being the Wiki's nicest, friendliest user. Do people get on my nerves? Yes. Have I acted in ways I am not proud of in the past, specifically at times you have pointed out? Yes. If you are going to treat me like a child who has been punished or is just getting over a punishment, then you are doing the exact kind of thing that caused DTN to leave in the first place: bashing a user, singling him out, and making him an enemy. Like I said, Xion4ever, I feel betrayed by you, especially by how you decided to site our confidential, supposed friend-to-friend chats to make me seem like Public Enemy No. 1. This is a separate issue that you and I need to sort out on the IRC. It is ''not'' something to be discussed on a forum about giving back my staff rights, as should be done according to our policies. We really are a hypocritical batch of unprofessional morons. Would giving me back my administrator position suddenly drive me to act aggressively towards another user? No. Simply because it is not in my personality to abuse positions of responsibility. I cannot properly show this change you are trying to mock me with until the missing links are reconnected. Imagine the following scenario, while we're on the subject:
*A child misbehaves and his mother has had it with him. She takes away his Nintendo 3DS, stating that he will get it back when he has proven he will no longer misbehave and has learned his lesson. Two weeks go by. The boy is on his best behavior. The mother gives back the Nintendo 3DS to see if her son is capable of behaving the way he should with it back in his possession.

Here, the misbehaving child (ENX) had his Nintendo 3DS (staff rights) taken away by his mother (the Wiki) because he was inactive. He behaved his best to show he is capable of doing so (the two months of constant editing required by the policy), and now the mother is to give back the 3DS. If she does not give back the 3DS, how can she ever see if her son is capable of behaving the right way with it in his possession? My point here is that you ask to see a change in behavior before I get my rights back. And that is not the issue that got them taken away. It was my inactivity, which has since been remedied to the extent that it can be, but given the nature of this forum's various posts and comments, may become an issue yet again because the batch of unprofessional morons we are is driving me away. And that is not my fault. It is yours. You, the Wiki, are driving off a committed, regular, high-quality editor, and he has every right not to come back. Does he expect you to care or suddenly throw roses at his feet and apologize? No. But he wants you to remember that he ''chooses'' to spend his time editing here. He has every right to say "I quit!" and leave you all in the dust. He shouldn't have to come here into a hostile environment and shape himself to meet its standards when people won't meet him half-way. 

Breaking out of third-person, I will say that if my past behavior is the only thing standing in my way, then that is being held against me at the wrong time. It is, as I've said, a separate issue. The only way it could negatively impact a staff member is if that behavior would cause said staff member to abuse his position, which '''NO ONE HERE BELIEVES I WOULD DO!''' You want to see a change in behavior? Well this issue needs to be taken care of first. And it takes two to tango. I'm not going to shrink myself and continue kneeling down to a bunch of jerks. If someone treats me with hostility, of course I am going to become upset by this. Attack someone, and he will defend. Especially when no one else will defend him. I ask that you think of all the ''good'' I have done and still do for the Wiki, for once. That is what determines if someone should be in a position to maintain the Wiki on a higher degree than another. Not the person's "behavior."}}
{{TheSilentHero|time=15:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC)|mac=I am quite neutral on this. I wasn't here before you became inactive, so I don't know anything about that. Here's how I see it: 
*You were an admin before and have been active for some months, which was required to get back your rights. On one side, I would say: "give him back his rights", but on the other side, there are more editors here who have been active for a longer time and did not get admin powers yet (nor did they ask for them).
*Being an admin doesn't really give you more things to do. Yes, you can move images and delete pages, but when need to do that, you can just message an admin. And yes, you can block vandals, but when I compare this wiki to, for example, SmashWiki, there is almost no vandalism.
*I personally don't think your attitude matters much for becoming an admin or not. (Though I would prefer it if you didn't write things in All Caps).

So, basically, I see no reason not to give your rights back, but there isn't really a reason to do so, either.}}

{{RikutheBloody|time={{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 15:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC)|angry=Don't we already have enough staff members? Another one really won't matter. Besides, you should wait until you're active again before trying to get your powers back. The things that you said you would use them for is already being filled. NinjaSheik is already deleting most of the pages, KSM is moving pages when they need them, (Neumannz sometimes too), and Neumannz is blocking the users who needs to be blocked, as seen somewhere in the changes. I don't believe there is any reason for you to have these powers, as we have enough Staff Members.}}
{{Xion4ever|time=15:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)|text=Your very first sentence proves that you took literally no time to actually read my message in the first place. This is exactly why I posted that log: to get your attention. Go back and reread all of the comments on here thus far. Unless the person was outright "Yeah! Let's give ENX his membership card back!" you've completely ignored their messages and attacked them in response. Instead of jumping to the cannons so quickly, why don't you actually listen as to why someone would disagree to return your old position? Then, instead of saying "you're all unprofessional morons," let's trying figuring out a compromise or solution. 

Administrator rights- even moderator rights- are not succulent or savory pieces of candy in which anyone can earn if they're "good little Susie/Johnny." These rights are given to users who not only prove themselves as editors, but also as people. How many of us have either worked or known a store boss/manager/whoever that was a complete jerk? In my experience, the person was an absolute, inconsiderate jerk, but they were good at managing the store/"keeping the business afloat." Said boss however, due to their personality/characteristics, drove people to quit and made the workplace a generally unhappy/miserable place. Likewise, we don't just hand these out to people "for the giggles," or because they've earned it once upon a time. Saying someone is a staff member is the Wiki/current staff/all users/editors saying "we're in complete 100% support and trust of this person to professionally and maturely represent us." If it was a piece of candy, I can list at least five people that deserve it just because they're really nice/cool people.

As for asking why you have not been given an official warning template, the last time that happened [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:BebopKate/Archive10#Policy_on_Edit_Warring all] [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII/Archive11#........ this] [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:DoorToNothing/2009-9#Edit_Warring.3F drama] came about. Do we really want a repeat of that? [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Dark_Impulse_%28Command%29&action=history Example 1: Edit warring] Besides, that should prove that we're trying to be as civil and professional as we can be. Rather than outright slapping a warning template on your talk page we've tried to talk it out and compromise/find a solution. If you'd rather us actually follow our rules of edit warring/other things that merit being given warnings/bans, we'll do just that. We'll go back to being the "big meanies" and "unprofessional morons" that made you hate/leave in the first place.

Rare instances of you losing your cool and completely snapping at someone? You act as if this occurs only once every blue moon- it doesn't. Would you prefer I cite the most recent instances? Or stick with the past years? Shoot. Look through yours, Kryten's, and DTN's talk page archives. Lots of goodies to be found there.

The point is whether you've earned your staff rights back. To me, I feel that you have not. Ever since you resumed activity, late December and up to the middle of January (about the time school starts again), you've done nothing but edit war with others, be an RC vulture, make "small" edits such as grammar- which staff should do, but that shouldn't primarily be their main contribution or output, complain how unfair this place is, and completely ignore when other people were saying [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII#Click "Hey, we could really use your help here"]. ''That'' is completely mind boggling to me. It doesn't matter who is asking you for help, a staff member or regular user, if you're expecting to become a staff member than you should be jumping up and down saying "Heck yes I'll help you out, let's get this started!" But no. You've done the complete opposite, giving us lip service saying "Oh, I might do that" or "I can't help out." That is ridiculous and insane. Where are these self-proclaimed "high quality edits" you speak of? Going off of what you've shown us in the past two months- determining whether you regain your staff position or not- is a joke. That's like applying for Harvard and sending in an incomplete resume or a two sentence essay response.

I'm saying that a staff member isn't someone who has made some good edits in the past and that editing is the only reason someone becomes a staff member. I'm saying that a staff member is someone who made some good edits in the past that the community/staff decided should become a staff member, and then that person works their butt off to uphold that expectation/quality expected of staff members. Alongside all of the editing world is that person's personality/characteristics/actions. Staff members are the main actors in the spotlight in the public's eye/Wiki world. If something sucks, often times they'll blame it on the staff. In short, we can't have short tempered, "I deserve this" people- even if they used to make great edits. This means that: No, the behavior issue is not a separate problem- it is a current problem that needs to be handled now. Under that belief, I still do not see you making any attempt to prove my initial message wrong. Quite the contrary, you are proving it to be correct. Seeing as how our staff policy was never set-in-stone or completely declared perfect, I propose that we insert the addition for both retired/inactive/current/active staff: You must prove that you actually deserve your position/title back. You worked hard to get it in the past, so you should work hard to get it back and keep it. Earning your position back just because you made five grammar/Mirage Arena events a day doesn't mean anything. That's like telling your parents "I want a car because I have a driver's license and it's your job as parents" after you wrecked the car they initially gave you.

As for me posting that log. Don't paint a dramatic picture of how "we were best friends" or "this is the absolute most down-right awful thing a person could do." You've removed the "I think of several users on here as friends" from your userpage a month ago when we had a spat over the music articles, and you're actions between not just me but everyone else prove otherwise. In both the distant and most recent past you've thrown people- even those you called "friends" under the bus if it meant you might: become a staff member, make yourself look better, or to fulfill your own selfish actions. I posted that log mainly because it isn't something you and I should talk about, obviously. You have complaints against other users and staff on here- ''let's hear it and solve this problem right now.'' I don't believe for one second that you were "going to eventually take care of this problem," because this problem has been around for ''years''- we have IRC logs, talk pages, forums, etc. proving so. If you were actually going to take care/settle this stuff you already would have. Instead you'd rather hide it under the rug until you get what you want. How does that sound?

"I cannot properly show this change you are trying to mock me with until the missing links are reconnected." -> This is the biggest point you've been missing from the get go- not just now but back when we first joined: '''you don't need to be a staff member to prove yourself- as an editor or person'''. If you think regaining your staff position is a cure-all to everything, you're wrong. Don't believe me? Look at what happened when you did become a moderator back at "the old place." You still acted the same as you do today: arguing with others, complaining how much you "hate this place and such-and-such people." If this doesn't prove the point, then look at some of the non-staff editors we have here. Sove, Pea, Riku the Bloody, ANX219, Pain, FifteenthMember, UltimaSpark, and others. None of those guys/gals are staff but they've been incredibly helpful editors and super nice people. If there was ever a conflict or "bad situation"/argument, those guys acted mature and either found a compromise for everyone or admitted that they were wrong and apologized. What I admire the most is that '''they kept working hard.''' They didn't loathe in self-pity and mud-slinging the staff/editors they had problems with. They talked it out, settled the problem, and went on editing as if nothing had happened.

As for your whole mother-3D scenario, what on earth do you think those required two months of activity were for? Those were your two months to pull out all the stops and prove that you do indeed fact deserve to have your staff "powers" returned. We gave you two months- even more than that, due to how long we've postponed this discussion- and we're still not seeing any improvement.

There are two questions that must be asked of the current staff and anyone that could potentially become staff:

*Do you want someone that acts like that as a staff member?
*Do you want someone that acts like that to represent you?

This isn't to say that someone is doomed to never become a staff member because of how they currently are- people do indeed change. However, until it is shown that someone has changed, they don't deserve such a title. Again, I reference the "letting a toddler drive a car" scenario in my first message. This follows up to your "He behaved his best to show he is capable of doing so (the two months of constant editing required by the policy), and now the mother is to give back the 3DS." If [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII#Re:Music_articles_first_sentence this] [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Magic_Hour&action=history is] [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII#RE:_Dark_Impulse the] [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Dark_Impulse_%28Command%29&action=history best] [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Bio_Barrage&action=history you] [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Dark_Impulse_%28Command%29&action=history can] [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Sweetstack&action=history behave]...[http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Ragnarok&action=history dang]. I'm disappointed.

"My point here is that you ask to see a change in behavior before I get my rights back. And that is not the issue that got them taken away. It was my inactivity..." This proves that completely ignored FM's comment above. I'll [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII/Archive17#Staff_Inactivity re-share] [http://www.khwiki.com/User_talk:EternalNothingnessXIII/Archive17#Demotion_Notice the links].


"...May become an issue yet again because the batch of unprofessional morons we are is driving me away. And that is not my fault. It is yours. You, the Wiki, are driving off a committed, regular, high-quality editor, and he has every right not to come back...But he wants you to remember that he chooses to spend his time editing here. He has every right to say "I quit!" and leave you all in the dust." -> You tell me, how on earth does that sound like someone who deserves to be a staff member? You're outright saying that if we/the Wiki ticks you off enough you'll leave us out to dry. Not only that, but you've insulted the entire community- editors, staff, and users- by saying we're "a batch of unprofessional morons." You want to talk about how self-righteous we all are? You better re-read your sentence ["And that is not my fault. It is yours."]. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

"...if my past behavior is the only thing standing in my way, then that is being held against me at the wrong time..." -> I'm talking about your current behavior. Even a day or two ago you were shouting at Kryten in edit summaries. I'm referencing your behavior the past two "probationary" month periods that come straight from this staff policy that you're banking on.

"You want to see a change in behavior? Well this issue needs to be taken care of first." -> That's why I'm posting all these eyesores of texts and making such a big deal out of this. You want the issue settled? Let's settle it. That's what this forum is about.

"That is what determines if someone should be in a position to maintain the Wiki on a higher degree than another. Not the person's "behavior."" -> The fact that you fail to see how someone's behavior would matter on being/becoming a staff member exactly proves why I am against reinstating you. We are supposed to be the role models of the Wiki, in both editing and our actions. I am absolutely astonished that you cannot see this, or refuse to.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Two things:
*I would like to respectfully request that the back-and-forth arguing here stop or go to PM/IRC, before anyone has to be sanctioned for personal attacks. This is not constructive.
*Anyone referencing ENX's arguments with me: I'm honestly not bothered by them, and was not offended or anything. I don't want anyone to be taking offense on my behalf. ENX had one position, I disagreed, we are discussing it without personal attacks, that's healthy for a wiki.
*Silent: I don't think "others have been here longer" is a good reason not to give someone mod tools. Those others, then, should be given the mod tools as well. We are not wikipedia, and do not have the danger of being overwhelmed in mods. If any mod gets out of control, Nezzy and I can easily strip them of their power and ban them.}}
{{ENX|time=17:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC)|angry=Enough is enough. Congratulations, ''KH'' Wiki. You and your superiority complexes have lost one editor. How does any of YOUR behavior sound like someone who should be a staff member? I go now to join the ranks of the many internet users who find this site's community members to be unprofessional morons. If I'm not allowed to have an opinion or speak my mind just as everyone else is, then this is your loss. You go on putting words in my mouth and refusing to see how I am right here in your thick-headedness. I quit.}}
{{KrytenKoro|...if this is in response to me, all I was asking was for the "he-said/she-said" to stop so we can focus on getting consensus for reopping.

I guess the topic is moot, then?}}

I suppose so. To the realm of sleep. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 17:44, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

You have repeatedly shown in this forum why you are unfit to be an admin. You are clearly unwilling to listen to anyone who doesn't share your point of view, I doubt you even bothered to fully read Xion's post. You are seemingly unwilling to accept any wrongdoings on your part and you are clearly only editing to be an admin (why is it such a big deal to you?), nothing else matters to you. This has been seen so many times before and these types of people are not suitable for any position with power and responsibility. You are calling us "unprofessional morons" for being unwilling to give admin powers to a person who is clearly unfit to have them, but the thing is, YOU are showing yourself to be an "unprofessional moron", a spoiled child, the amount of self-entitlement you are showing is astonishing. --<span style="font-weight: bold">[[User:Sove|<span style="color: #00FF7F">So</span>]][[User talk:Sove|<span style="color: #00FF00">ve</span>]]</span> 18:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|Okay, putting my foot down -- no more emotional recriminations or attacks on each other. Any more will result in immediate one-day blocks. Furthermore, I expect there to be ''no'' more judgments of character from either party unless they are ''directly'' related to said editor's duties and usefulness to the wiki. I understand both sides are upset at each other, and am offering an amnesty for what's been said above, but I expect better from all involved.

If you can't figure out how to phrase your comment dispassionately, do not post at all. If this thread can't get back on track by tomorrow, it will be locked and deleted.}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|sad=It's a shame that this discussion fell apart into the result here today. The results of this discussion were totally not the purpose of this forum, and I think I speak for most if not all on the wiki in expressing my disappointment for the actions taken today.

I'd like to first clear up the reason we even have this forum, a concern Shard expressed earlier. First is the policy ENX has brought up. The [[KHWiki:Staff policy|Staff Policy]] we drafted and implemented over the summer is unexpectedly being used today. I say unexpectedly because, while we drafted it with ENX, TNE, and Kryten in mind (check the logs, I'm pretty sure they were all mentioned), we, or at least I, can't say I truly expected all of them to return so quickly. What great joy it is to me that they '''are''' back, as it has been a joy to all on the wiki to see so many veteran users return to the ''Kingdom Hearts'' Wiki! I bring up the policy, however, because I've been thinking about it's wording. It states:
:''"If they return and want their rights back, they must undergo a two month probation period, where the user must show that they are active enough to hold their powers again."''

I'm not a lawyer (as I've undoubtedly said multiple times on the wiki on numerous occasions), but after reviewing the staff policy, it appears to imply that a staff member who has been inexplicably/unexcusably inactive for extended periods of time should be reinstated into their former position following two months of consistent/continuous activity ''immediately'', which would invalidate this whole discussion. It mentions nothing about "upon approval from the wiki's community" or anything of the sort. So then, why do we have this forum? Why do we discuss this at all? Because of the way we feel about the staff. We (at least the majority of us, I believe) feel the staff are representatives of the community. They should be approved by the community. The community should have a say in who is the site's staff. This Democratic setup of the wiki (everyone has a say, everyone has a voice) is evident in the way we handle affairs on this wiki, but is not noted officially in any policy, which is why part of the conflict is between the idea that everyone has a voice in who is part of the staff, and what the policy states. It's part of the reason we're hesitant, I think. As per the policy, he gets his rights immediately, regardless of what we say. As per the unspoken base of the wiki's function, the community has a say first. Perhaps this is an error on our part we should fix. In the end, if we decide to uphold the policy, we should restore his rights regardless of whatever was said here. If not, I would hope there is understanding in why we needed to make a forum out of it.

I've held back from expressing my opinion on whether or not EternalNothingnessXIII should have his rights restored because I felt torn, and because of my own awkward position of having just recently being promoted to the same position. I share much of both KrytenKoro and Xion4ever's opinions regarding site staff. Like Kryten, I feel that anyone who shows competence on the wiki, who have the edits to show their willingness and dedication to the wiki, who are willing to work with other users, who clearly will not abuse of the administrator powers and so on should have moderator/administrative rights. At the same time, I have the view Xion has of a staff member: members of the wiki's staff are/should be "...role models, leaders, mature, have a hard work ethic,... encouraging, [willing] to help others, neutral/level headed, [able] to defuse/handle/compromise depending on the situation..." To me, the wiki staff are representative of the wiki's community. They are among the leaders of the wiki. They should be encouraging and welcoming, mature and level-headed, with an effort to befriend anyone and everyone on the wiki. No, they may not be universally popular or beloved, they may not even be friends everyone on the wiki, but they should make an effort to do so, and at the very least, be able to work with anyone and everyone. They should be able to respond coolly, avoiding the escalation of arguments when possible. No, this is not a comprehensive list of all staff qualities, and no, not all staff can uphold all these qualities. But I think it's what we expect from the staff. It's because of those qualities that I have the opinion (I think probably largely unpopular opinion) that many non-admins would make good, if not great, admins or mods on the wiki, because I have seen those qualities in many of the people and editors of the wiki.

At the same time, I find myself sharing Xion's opinion/view regarding ENX's reaction to several incidents over the ''last month''. I emphasize "last month", because he didn't end up in these incidents throughout November and early December. This contentious behavior became most apparent in mid-December and through most of the time up to today. I know Kryten said judging people's character is wrong, but there's a reason it's been brought up, and I'd like to explain it for both the record, and to shed a light of understanding especially to ENX on why it's an issue. It goes back to the qualities a staff member should have. They should be approachable, and willing to work with others. Obviously, not all issues will result in happy-go-lucky, laughing, [[Hand in Hand|hand-in-hand]] results, and it's inevitable that stark differences will at times result in passionate debates, heated discussions, and extended dispute. But the staff should try and avoid escalating conflicts and finding themselves at the center of such incidents, especially too often. Because it scares people off. It makes people think we're about contention and drama. It's part of the reason we have such a bad reputation. And ENX's behavior over the last couple weeks is one that amplifies or increases such conflicts. Consider the conflicts we've gotten into extended forum discussions over the last month. We've debated over the use of a character's name in a caption, the use of image captions at all, the use of certain types of renders, the choice in the name of articles, the sentence structure of music articles, the list goes on. And no, not all of the discussions were necessarily stupid or unneeded. We definitely needed to define the purpose/use of certain fan-made renders, and it's important to figure out how we name our articles on this wiki. Indeed, much of what was discussed wasn't an issue because of its purpose/topic, but because of the way the forums started, the events leading up to them, and the way the arguments were handled. To blame ENX solely for the mistakes or escalation of the discussion would be a grave error, but it would be equally unfair to not acknowledge his role in said escalation. At the end of the day, we have brought up this specific part of ENX's character as an issue because we worry how he would handle the important quality of a staff member of working with other users, including new editors who undoubtedly will not know he suffers of OCD. 

Which brings me to another point, which is that we should acknowledge that ENX has OCD, and might actually contribute to his sudden outburst, and make an effort to work with it. At the same time, I would hope ENX is trying to keep it under control to the best of his ability, and not just giving up and expecting people to conform to his disorder solely because he has it. I'm not saying he is; I wouldn't know, and I wouldn't be in the position to judge whether or not he is. All I can ask is that the rest of us make an effort to understand it and, as has always been expected of all of us, to assume he is acting in the everlasting editor quality of "Good-faith". Most of all, I hope/expect us all to not toy with such disorders. I don't know about such things; I'm not a doctor, and as far as I know, I've never dealt with anyone with Obsessive-Compulsory Disorder. The closest I've gotten to genetic disorders was the chance passing the Special-Ed kids in my high school, and a 12-year-old boy with Down Syndrome, the brother of one of my closest friends. But from the few encounters with him, I've come to respect those with genetic disorders. I do not in any way approve of or accept attacks on such disabilities that are totally out of their control, as I hope most of you here on the wiki are. I would hope we're all understanding of the difficulties that come with these diseases.

In the end, EternalNothingnessXIII in my opinion is a great person and editor. To deny this would be unfair and wrong. It was him who I looked up to in my early days on the wiki (before I had a computer to actually edit with), and I was excited when he actually came back. It was great to interact with him then. It was great to get to know him. Back then, I would have supported the restoration of his rights in a heartbeat. Today, I cannot do so as easily. For a fact, I know he would never abuse of the powers that come with being an administrator, but the extended qualities of cooperation are areas where I have a deep concern. Especially with the actions he's taken today, I cannot voice support for the restoration of his administrator rights. I feel that he's belittled what we've tried to do with him, and for him, and I personally am hurt at his course of action. It's saddening to admit, but it's true. I sincerely wish him good luck and success in whatever he does with his life now, and hope for his return as an editor of the ''Kingdom Hearts'' Wiki.
}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=I've been keeping my eye on the forum since it was first started, but I was also thinking about what I wanted to say and wanting to see what others think of it... I'm sad to hear the ENX is leaving, but I can't deny the points that Xion-chan has made. This escalated much too quickly, and has become too person. I pretty much agree with KSM has to say. However, even if this didn't escalated the way it did, I wouldn't really agree to have ENX as an admin. I'm aware of his misbehavior and I wanted to observe his actions a bit before making a decision. But seeing this today did confirm my thoughts. I don't think appointing him as admin would be the right choice if isn't willingly to listen to other people's opinions without taking personal offense to it. I'm really sorry to see him go, though. :(}}
{{ShardofTruth|time=13:42, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|talk=Wow, I read the whole thread and obviously I did not have a clue what this was all about. It's still sad to see ENX leaving again because I think he's a great editor.<br>
I agree with the major opinion here that a mod/administrator should be someone that sets an positive example how to work here, while I also agree with Kryten that the provided tools could benefit everybody (especially true in my case since I hardly get involved in the social aspects of the wiki).<br>
What I don't agree with is how ENX was deemed unfit for this position. If we have a policy (that we all agreed on) we should follow it, if we make exceptions this kind of a "dictator-like" move, and unfair for the person involved. So if you want to include voting, then the policy should be changed again.<br><br>
We're all here because we love (or at least like) Kingdom Hearts but our backgrounds and reasons to edit here are different, so we have different opinions on many things and that's perfectly fine, as long as we reach some sort of middle ground. I was never me against them or us against the rest of the internet and I wish ENX had remembered that.}}
{{ENX|time=14:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|hooded=Why do I feel like you are the only one with any sense right now, Shard? I wish to raise attention to some things I have said in an ongoing conversation with RikuTheBloody on my talk page; key points are '''bolded''':


Do you really need them to edit? It isn't that serious. Is this the person I looked up too? Is KSM work on your TB's meaningless? {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 17:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
::'''I'm not willing to stay here and be attacked or insulted. Administrator powers are not necessary, but it is upsetting to me to have met the policy's requirements, and, just because of who I am, I am being denied them. See ShardofTruth's message on the forum.''' And Kryten's first. '''I don't want to leave the Wiki, but I have no choice. The people here make my life all the more stressful, even though I love editing here. But how can I possibly come back after I let my childish anger get the better of me like that on the forum? I cannot. I don't take criticism well. I accept that. But it is infuriating to me that people refuse to follow a policy that has been in place, apparently, since almost two Decembers ago and finalized on a recent Roundtable. The hypocritical nature of this Wiki's community and the superiority complexes of each of its administrators (are they trying to tell me they are perfect angels who have never misbehaved before?) have forced my hand. I've been hurt too many times by the people on this Wiki to be able to take it anymore.''' Based on the harsh, cruel words of what was stated on the forum, '''I think it is best for everyone that I leave this Wiki behind''', regardless of your looking up to me or the wonderful talk bubbles KSM made. If everyone is against me, how can I even work here anymore? Would you want to stay here if you were in my position? - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 13:31, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
:No one is hating. If you still edit here, or even just come to the IRC, I'm sure everyone will be alright. Don't just leave just because of something someone says. Besides, you are a help to this wiki alone, without admin powers, or socializing. Did you even take the time out to read Xion's post? Correct your errors by fixing what people criticize you about. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 13:36, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
::Everyone is hating, and '''until they tell me that themselves, that they are not, I will believe they are. They need to apologize for sounding harsh and ask for changes in a polite, nicer way. If I were to come back, I would want my admin powers because I came back and met the policy's requirements; my main point on my last forum post was my rights were taken away because I was inactive, NOT because I misbehaved.''' Now, all of a sudden, people are trying to take everything wrong that I have ever done and use it against me. You cannot correct past mistakes because they have already happened. My issue with Xion's post and everyone's like it is they took months-old issues and then tried to use them against me to prevent the restoration of my "powers." '''I felt more betrayed by so-called "friends" such as you and Xion4ever than anything else, hence my anger and overreaction. Am I proud of how I acted? No. But the thing that they should settle on is "Ok, we'll give you the rights back, as per the policy. But if you misbehave and we receive complaints, as per Operation: Keychain, you're subject to having them taken away again." That would be fair, and I could work with that, monitoring behavior and anger levels as much as possible.''' Like I keep saying, '''I don't want to leave. I don't even want admin powers. I want respect. And I want everyone who ''does'' have admin powers to take a serious chill pill and come down from their pedestals of power on which they have placed themselves. Give someone admin rights, and they go from friendly everyday users to power-flaunting Wiki-dictators who only care what other staff members have to say. I want my opinion to count, and the fact that no one ever says "Yeah, he has a point" because they are too self-absorbed and because I do not have the status that someone like KrytenKoro does does ''not'' make me feel like wasting my time here anymore, no matter how much I enjoyed editing and "socializing" with other ''KH'' fans''' (but when has that ever happened, seriously?)... - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 14:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I wish to emphasize everything stated by ShardofTruth in his most recent message, as well as the points that I bolded in my chat with RTB. I am really sorry for overreacting, everyone. I do not expect forgiveness. But I don't want this to be off the table, either. I would like to let bygones be bygones and '''move forward'''. I promise to try to "behave better," but the reasons ShardofTruth stated in his most recent message are the exact ones why I behaved the way I did on this forum. Depending on what goes on, I may decide to come back. Not that I am wanted or that I matter, but I love working here too much. Isn't that why we are all here? The main point about the admin stuff is it makes my job easier. That is all. And again I raise behavior stuff '''on both ends''' as a separate issue. If people fix things and I fix things, then I ''can'' be the positive role-model for the Wiki that people want me to be. I just need the chance to show it.}}

This is just about the powers. Without the powers, you can still get along with everyone. Just try to come to the IRC. I don't see you there much. Just drop the powers. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 14:31, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


{{Pea14733|time=16:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|mrhserious= I don't see anyone hating you, ENX. I agree that they're two separate issues so let's just break them down:
#Returning your rights by the policy. No one disagrees on this point and you did accordingly. So we should return you your rights. But...
#Your behavior. Now this one is based on your resumed activity that you are kind of ill-suited to be an admin. I'm going to ask this again, have you read what Xion and others had to say? And no, those sample-incidents are pretty new and in fact, some are just days ago. Those are, if we're going by your words, the "complaints" you received while being a "retired '''admin'''" (that's according to the Staff page) and the signs that you are indeed ill-suited to be (or to resume being) an admin. If you are saying you need the chance, I'll say you've already used it up. You don't need to be an active admin to activate your role-model mode, or so I think. This does not mean that you are permanently banned from being an admin though. I'm pretty sure that if you behave well enough in the future, you will undoubtedly regain your rights. 

Putting that aside, I do respect you that you are a hardworking and dedicated editor. Oh and if you're looking for "socialization", most part of it happen on the IRC. Just come talk and relax.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Initial disclaimer: I honestly hadn't realized that this policy would be affecting me, so it might be necessary to recuse myself and wait for Nezzy to step in. That being said:

I strongly feel that all judgments of "worth as an editor", "who should apologize", "who deserves what" should be taken to our dispute resolution processes, or to the IRC. People seem to be arguing based on personal greivances, and that's not constructive.}}

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 18:29, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|default=Policies are never set in stone and they can be changed at any time, if the community decides. I would agree with Xion's suggestion of adding the clause "proving that you actually deserve your position back".

Out of Kryten's "any competent user should have tools" and Xion's "staff member = role model" view, I feel more comfortable with the latter. We're a small community, so I think it's important to have a band of reliable, committed staff to set the standards for newcomers. Do I think that ENX is a suitable role model for new editors at the moment? Truthfully no, and I do not intend that to be harsh or demeaning. I hope that does not ruin your motivation; take it as a standing stone to work your way up. 

Lastly, I'd like to mention that from my own experiences, I find that the opinion of a regular user is just as valued to a staff member's when we're making a community decision. I do not see any dictatorship qualities, controlling behaviour or superiority coming from any of the current staff.}}

According to both his user page and comments on here, ENX is leaving the Wiki. Does this even need to be discussed anymore? If we'd like to discuss our staff policy, I say we move that discussion to a new forum or at least create a new heading on this one. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 18:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

:Why move it? Someone can just lock it, the discussion is over with. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 18:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, I believe the addition to the policy should be discussed. I don't think it will take long to reach a consensus on it, so I think discussing here under a new section is okay, unless someone wants to create another thread? {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 19:12, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
:I can create it. (It'll be my first time.) {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 19:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
{{ENX|time=19:15, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|text=If you look at my user page, Xion, and you actually read my most recent comments, I am staying, for the time being, at least. I'm fine with waiting a few more months, but I do agree the policy ''does'' need to be changed/updated to discuss all of the hidden elements of it, since what we currently state is rather concrete, as well as the only reason why this escalated the way it did. We had a policy. The way it was written, it wasn't followed. Hence I viewed this situation exactly as ShardofTruth stated one in my position would. We also need to outline what we actually expect from a "model" staff member, as you can't say, "Try again and act differently" without saying what requirements need to be met. Because I personally do not see where I have been out of line, save for the specific instances that have already been listed here, which are no longer relevant. People disagree with each other and argue, etc., because we all have different backgrounds and opinions. That is healthy for a Wiki and expected. But this "he said-she said" banter needs to stop, and as Kryten keeps stating, behavioral issues for '''all''' Wikians is a '''separate issue''' that should not be discussed here. I am '''not''' saying it does not need to be discussed at all. With the request that this Wiki do as KeybladeSpyMaster suggested, and try to understand and cope with the fact that I am an OCD sufferer, I will return to the ''KH'' Wiki. I ask for the forgiveness I know I don't deserve, and I also list the traits/symptoms typical of someone with my disorder for those who are interested/curious:

*'''Alienation''' - The act of cutting off or interfering with an individual's relationships with others.
*'''"Always" and "Never" Statements''' - "Always" and "Never" Statements are declarations containing the words "always" or "never". They are commonly used but rarely true.
*'''Anger''' - People who suffer from personality disorders often feel a sense of unresolved anger and a heightened or exaggerated perception that they have been wronged, invalidated, neglected or abused.
*'''Avoidance''' - The practice of withdrawing from relationships with other people as a defensive measure to reduce the risk of rejection, accountability, criticism or exposure.
*'''Blaming''' - The practice of identifying a person or people responsible for creating a problem, rather than identifying ways of dealing with the problem.
*'''Catastrophizing''' - The habit of automatically assuming a "worst case scenario" and inappropriately characterizing minor or moderate problems or issues as catastrophic events.
*'''Circular Conversations''' - Arguments which go on almost endlessly, repeating the same patterns with no resolution.
*'''Denial''' - Believing or imagining that some painful or traumatic circumstance, event or memory does not exist or did not happen.
*'''Depression''' - People who suffer from personality disorders are often also diagnosed with symptoms of depression.
*'''Sense of Entitlement''' - An unrealistic, unmerited or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and favorable treatment at the hands of others.
*'''Hoarding''' - Accumulating items to an extent that it becomes detrimental to quality of lifestyle, comfort, security or hygiene.
*'''Hysteria''' - An inappropriate over-reaction to bad news or disappointments, which diverts attention away from the real problem and towards the person who is having the reaction.
*'''Manipulation''' - The practice of steering an individual into a desired behavior for the purpose of achieving a hidden personal goal.
*'''Mood Swings''' - Unpredictable, rapid, dramatic emotional cycles which cannot be readily explained by changes in external circumstances.
*'''No-Win Scenarios''' - When you are manipulated into choosing between two bad options
*'''Objectification''' - The practice of treating a person or a group of people like an object.
*'''Panic Attacks''' - Short intense episodes of fear or anxiety, often accompanied by physical symptoms, such as hyperventilating, shaking, sweating and chills.
*'''Passive-Aggressive Behavior''' - Expressing negative feelings in an unassertive, passive way.
*'''Perfectionism''' - The maladaptive practice of holding oneself or others to an unrealistic, unattainable or unsustainable standard of organization, order, or accomplishment in one particular area of living, while sometimes neglecting common standards of organization, order or accomplishment in other areas of living.
*'''Projection''' - The act of attributing one's own feelings or traits to another person and imagining or believing that the other person has those same feelings or traits.
*'''Proxy Recruitment''' - A way of controlling or abusing another person by manipulating other people into unwittingly backing “doing the dirty work”
*'''Push-Pull''' - A chronic pattern of sabotaging and re-establishing closeness in a relationship without appropriate cause or reason.
*'''Ranking and Comparing''' - Drawing unnecessary and inappropriate comparisons between individuals or groups.
*'''Selective Memory and Selective Amnesia''' - The use of memory, or a lack of memory, which is selective to the point of reinforcing a bias, belief or desired outcome.
*'''Sabotage''' - The spontaneous disruption of calm or status quo in order to serve a personal interest, provoke a conflict or draw attention.
*'''Selective Competence''' - Demonstrating different levels of intelligence, memory, resourcefulness, strength or competence depending on the situation or environment.
*'''Splitting''' - The practice of regarding people and situations as either completely "good" or completely "bad".
*'''Thought Policing''' - A process of interrogation or attempt to control another individual's thoughts or feelings.
*'''Triggering''' -Small, insignificant or minor actions, statements or events that produce a dramatic or inappropriate response.
*'''Tunnel Vision''' - A tendency to focus on a single concern, while neglecting or ignoring other important priorities.  

Sounds a lot like me, no? Justifies (not that it is justifiable) a lot of what went down with me and between myself and others here, no? These symptoms are not even ''the half'' of the hell that goes on for me every day in my life and in my head and heart. And yet, I still come to this Wiki every day to write about my favorite video game series, ''Kingdom Hearts'' because it is one of the few things that, with my OCD, still makes me happy and I am able to enjoy. Especially when I can share my knowledge and enjoyment with other ''KH'' fans. No Wiki is as special to me as this one, and no Wiki community is as special to me as this one's, either. I know, because after my announcement that I was forever quitting the Wiki yesterday, one I made out of anger, anxiety, and in haste, I tried editing on other Wikis and found I did not enjoy working on a single one as much as I did on this one. 

With those symptoms and such listed, I promise the Wiki that I will do the best I can to keep them under control. I will show that I can be a model user to the best of my ability, and we can try the administrator thing again in another couple months, hopefully after the staff policy (which I believe had already been finalized, hence all my confusion and upsetness...) is finalized. I hope you all give me a second (third, fourth, fifth?) chance. Because I enjoy working here with all of you, even though it does not seem like it most of the time. I hope that you all will understand where I am coming from with my OCD and take that into account in the future when dealing with me or any issues that may rise up concerning me in the future. Again, I humbly apologize to you all. Xion4ever, KrytenKoro, Neumannz, NinjaSheik, ShardofTruth, RikuTheBloody, TheFifteenthMember, Pea, The Silent Hero, all of you. I am truly, very sorry. I only hope that I can prove this to you.}}
:ENX did you get my invitation? {{User:Byzantinefire/Sig}} 19:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 19:36, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|confused=I respect you for '''a)''' having the bravery to talk openly about your condition and '''b)''' being persistent in your efforts. As many people here said, this forum is not the end of the line. Using Xion's words above, you've talked the talk and now it's time to walk the walk. My personal request is be more calm and level-headed and try not to over-react to situations. I understand that is more difficult for you because of your OCD but to be an admin, you need to show you can keep your composure stable. Good luck :)}}
{{ENX|time=19:40, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|happy=Thank you. Trust me, what's listed above isn't even the half of this OCD crap :P Yes, it is hard to do as you ask with the symptoms listed above, but of course I will try my best! Thank you once again for the good-luck wish and kind words :) You, too, have my respect :)}}
I won't be able to properly construct a comment until later-sneaking on phone during class right now- but one thing that definitely needs to be taken care of now is the hatred/complaints you have against other users. Apologize and say thank you all you want, but I know those feelings are still there. The only way they won't be there is if ''you and the users you have complaints with'' talk it out. You'd be surprised how much easier it is to live/edit/be somewhere where you don't have to hide how you feel/everyone knows everyone is being upfront and honest- they have each other's back. That's not only critical for the staff, but for the Wiki in general. If this needs to happen on talk pages/the IRC, so be it. A full response will be given later tonight. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 20:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
::That comment "Apologize and thank others as much as you want, but..." sounds very antagonistic and unnecessary to me. It's as if you're trying to egg me on or something...I know I have complained to you before about certain things in our IRC chats, as a friend of mine, but still, that was just in-the-moment frustration that just happens to pop up over and over again because of my OCD, lack of ability to communicate with said people, et cetera. Believe what you wish, but I do '''not''' have hatred for '''ANY''' member of this Wiki's community. Do I wish things would go my way sometimes? Yes. But that is human, and exaggerated, as well, because of my mental condition. And you cannot blame me for that, no matter how many times you tell me to "Walk the walk while you talk the talk." I would love to be somewhere where I knew people supported me and had my back. That's how I felt in the Wiki's "old days" when I first joined, before SEIWA and everything when we had people like Xiggie and Yermom editing here. I'd love to have that feeling again. I miss that more than the ability to delete articles and images...The point, Xion, is this is not just about me as you keep trying to make it seem. Yes, I know a large part of it has to do with how I choose to behave and react in certain situations. You don't need to keep stating it over and over again, okay? I've understood it by now, believe me. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 20:21, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

:I'm glad you're coming back to us. I hope we can talk more. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 20:24, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
::I'm glad as well, my friend :) We can talk any time, assuming I'm free :P All it takes is an IRC invite! - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 20:28, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
{{TheSilentHero|time=20:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|ike=I just wanted to say that I appreciate how you open up about your OCD. I know it's hard to talk about such things with people you don't really know that well. I will keep it in mind when talking to you, but you need to work on it too. If you try to apply for admin in a couple of months, I will reconsider.}}
{{ENX|time=20:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|happy=Thanks, TheSilentHero! This Wiki has always been like a second family to me, so I trust quite a lot of you, and of course I promise to try my hardest keeping things under control to the best of my ability. We will try the administrator thing again in a couple months :) For now, I'm happy just editing and being a part of the community.}}
{{neumannz|time=23:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)|text=@Kryten: Well, the Heartless Manufactory has been idle for the longest time...

And yes, I am willing to revisit this issue down the road.

It's unfortunate that we don't have a way to divorce the Admin Tools of Convenience and Maintenance™ from the role of staff member and what it implies, it would have made this much simpler if we did. In the meantime, we will keep working as a wiki to move forward with how we work together and communicate, and before I sound like more of a posturing asshole, I'll just say that you guys know where to find me if anyone wants to talk/chat/chill/shoot the breeze/chew the fa—''*shot*''}}
{{ENX|time=01:37, 12 February 2015 (UTC)|text=I don't mean to sound cheesy here, but I feel like this forum has actually brought me closer to the Wiki and its community. Just like in a relationship with someone you love, there will be good times and bad times. People fight and argue, and sometimes things are said that can never be unsaid or that hurt or separate. Yet still, it takes strength and commitment to see things through. In the end, we are made stronger for it. Call me crazy, but I'm actually happy with the way things have turned out. I feel like I have emerged from this experience a wiser, stronger editor and person.}}