Editing Forum:MegaProject: Arise - Main Page Revamp

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

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{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=18:10, 12 April 2014 (UTC)|text=Hey, guys! As part of '''MegaProject: Arise''', it was decided yesterday to revamp the Main Page. We would like the community's opinions on what we should change and how to revamp the Main Page. What should we have on the Main Page, and how can we make it more appealing so that we can increase community activity? Discuss!}}

==Discussion==
{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|text=So I think one of the things we need to change is the Command Board. It should be more prominent and more updated in telling the community what needs work, so that way, passing and new visitors can feel like they have something to contribute to.}}

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 09:31, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|default=Yeah, the Command Board definitely needs to be revamped. My only improvement I would make is perhaps add more icons (hearts, KH game icons etc.) around the place to make it more image-filled, like Pea said. How we do that is up to you guys because I have no ideas.

EDIT: I think we should put this mini-project on hiatus, until our magazine, podcast and LP start to release so we can incorporate them into our design.}}

{{Pea14733|time=14:06, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|mrhintr2=How about we make it looks like that New Game/Continue menu in the games? Or maybe we'd like the "start menu" theme.}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=17:45, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|text= I would rather not put it on hiatus, only because I would rather not let '''[[Forum:Main_Page_Revamp|this]]''' happen again. As for the design, I really like the idea of the Menu theme like the Pause Menu. How would it work? Would we have all the headers as the menu items (Featured Article, Command Board, etc.) and have each part appear upon clicking it? Because that sounds like a) multiple pages or b)Javascript. How much are we willing to change? The whole thing from scratch, or just the main page contents? I don't know, all these things are coming to mind as I type this....sorry if I made it so confusing. But I like a menu theme like Pea suggested.}}
{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 20:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|confused=It'd be hard to design it like the title screen as we can't squeeze all of the information onto the main page into a few words. I think we should get rid of the "Did you know..." section since it gives a misleading impression of the Wiki (which doesn't feature heavy trivia) and possible the "Quote of the Moment" too. That leaves the following bits:
*"Welcome" space
*Featured Article
*Featured Media
*Mirage Arena
*Trinity Archives
*Current Happenings, Command Board and Helping Out (which can maybe be integrated together or linked in some way)
*SEIWA.
Then we will also have:
*Let's Play
*Magazine/Podcast
Now, which parts should go in the main part and which parts on the sidebar?

One idea I have is merging all community events into one box: "Join our busy community events!" with pictures and subtitles for the MA, LP and magazine. [http://i.imgur.com/3Qixyn4.png Here's] a visual of what I mean (although the real thing will be much better than the scrap I made on paint). I think it's good since it uses less words and more images and saves a lot of space that would have otherwise been wasted on individual boxes.}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=01:35, 17 April 2014 (UTC)|text=For sure, we need to put a bigger emphasis on the community. Maybe "Did You Know?" should be moved to the community page?

My thoughts on the design would have been to have the tabs on the left (Instead of "Items", "Journal", etc., it would be "Community", "Trinity Archives", etc.) and have each tab open a page of sorts on the right where the content usually would have been, and put the information there. However, that seems really complex, so I don't mind if we don't do that (sniff, sniff) :).

The rest that you posted, FM, seems okay, and I like merging the Community links into one box. I'll see if I can work up a draft. I don't know about the sidebar, because those links seem to be ignored very easily. Maybe there should be a way to rework the sidebar so that it's more prominent?}}

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 20:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)|angry=Just to clarify, by "sidebar" I meant [http://i.imgur.com/3blAx92.png this] on the right; not the navigation bar on the left. I really think we should just get rid of the "Did you Know?" since it's more suited for the Keyhole. My qualm with having tabs on the main page is it'd hide a lot of links and information to the viewer at first glance.

Can someone highlight the problems with the current main page so that we ("we" being me) know what we need to improve? I understood from Pea that we need to use more images and less text. Anything else?}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:44, 25 April 2014 (UTC)|text=Ok, so I've taken the time to take some notes on OneNote (love that program) of what I think we could do. Now, by no means is this the master list of things we should do, nor should we do them all. This is more ideas to get the juices flowing. 

These ideas come from what I think we should do just from looking at the main page, as well as ideas thrown around in the original Revamp Discussion from a couple years back, and some thrown here.

*Make Command Board, Helping Out, and Clean Up of the Month more visible/useable
*Coordinate with the Traverse Town reconstruction?
*Make more interesting/appealing in general (visually)
**Current Happenings
**Mirage Arena
**Remove "Did you know?"
*Portals?
**Games
**Characters
**Media
**Merchandise
**Community
*Area for Let's Play, Magazine, and other community projects
*Traverse Town is a must visually!


Now, I've also taken notes from looking at some other wikis.
*Portals ('''KHFanonWiki''', '''Bulbapedia''')
*Move Trinity Archives to the a smaller area (sidebar) ('''FinalFantasy Wiki''')
*Use images in sections ('''Disney Wiki''')
*Make more prominent the Wanted and make a Popular articles list ('''Strategy Wiki''')
*Use a background color on the actual page ('''Bulbapedia''').
*Use bigger font size ('''Strategy Wiki''')
*Make Navigation Bar more visible/bigger ('''Strategy Wiki''')
*Game Portals ('''Zelda Wiki''')
*Merge Command Board/Helping Out/Clean Up of the Month ('''WikiBound''')
*Center welcome Banner (?)
*Remove navigation menu, move to top ('''NIWA''')
*Move sidebar down to even out with the rest of the content (ties in with centering the Welcome Banner ('''Kingdom Hearts Wiki (Spanish)''')


Again, these are just notes of what we '''''could''''' do. What do you guys think?
}}

===Reopening, for reals...===
{{Xion4ever|time=03:42, 17 June 2014 (UTC)|talktext=<small>Alternate title was {{w|Better Homes and Gardens (magazine)|Better Homes and Gardens}}: Wiki Style.</small> Whew, it's been a while...About two months to be exact. >_> Since the magazine and podcast are well on their way, how about we get this project rolling? I know Keyblade has waited very patiently for some contributions. I'm sorry my two cents, for whatever they are worth, are late. ^_^; Alrighty then...

First, I'm up for a total wipeout of how the main page looks now in favor for something new. Judging from the [[Forum:Main Page Revamp|last main page discussion]] and from what you guys have said on here so far, everyone seems okay with that. I'm also game for slashing "quote of the moment" and the "did you know" facts. Quotes are cool, but unless we want to tab them with something else, I don't see a real point for them. Especially since we have other things that could replace it and they are mentioned in the articles. In general, though, I don't think tabs on the main page are good for pretty much the reasons 15 has said. Moving on, I'm liking 15's idea on grouping the community events into one box. That's really simple, easy to understand, and includes those points. Now for Keyblade's previous bullet list:

*Pertaining to Command Board, Helping Out, Cleanup of the Month, and Traverse Town: Is there a way we could take the first three topics and merge them with a part of the Traverse Town revamp?
*Visually appealing: Most of this will come with our inclusion of more images/new page layout. Current happenings seems rather redundant to me since we have the Command Board and Cleanup of the Month all hinting at the community. If we incorporate Traverse Town into this, I think we can remove the Command Board, Helping Out, Cleanup of the Month, and Current Happenings. Or, could current happenings be discussed in the Trinity Archives?
*Portals: I like the idea. However, having a number of portals for game features seems unnecessary to me. Our navigation bar on the far left side of the screen seems to cover the gaming features.
*Trinity Archives to smaller sidebar: Yes! I couldn't agree more. [[User:KrytenKoro/Main Page|Kryten]] has the coding for that idea over on his userspace.
*Images in sections: More images in general, supported by the necessary subtitles, are better for advertising than walls of text. I think of the main page as that: an advertisement or commercial. We have a short time to show off certain features. More people would rather look at/remember an image than reading a book of text just to know that our magic articles need help.
*Wanted and Popular articles: (Wanted articles) Bullet list is good, or if we can figure out how to unite the Traverse Town page into this, I'd rather we do that. Popular articles: is there a way to determine which articles have been popular?
*Background color: Color would liven the page up. However, nothing too radical, please. Nice and clean. It doesn't have to be a "safe" color like white, black, light colors...just something that isn't distracting.
*Bigger font: For stressing certain parts? Absolutely.
*Navigation bar: Personally, I'm quite content with the size our current navigation bar is. Large side areas, such as the navigational bar, and the page looks distorted/out of proportion.
*Game portals: I'm really digging this idea. For starters, this would save us from having to waste/put more portals about each game.
*Merge command board/cleanup of the month/helping out: If we are unable to do the Traverse Town idea, this is definitely a good idea.
*Centering: Sure, if we want. Worse case scenario is we change it back. Depending on how we set up the other sections, this could be good or bad.
*Removing navigation menu: Eh...I think the navigation box is good where it is now- on the far left side of the page- instead of actually being a part of the page.}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Super excited to have this going now! Ok, now I regret all many bullet points, because it's a little hard to respond to all those things. Oh, well, my mistake. I'll try and group some of the ideas here. I'm sorry, but fair warning: it's going to be an essay of sorts.

First, I guess we're game for starting the main page from scratch. I'll try a draft on one of my project pages, since the Traverse Town Project has slowed down for now. We can pick that up later.

*'''Wiki News and Projects''': Includes <font color=#BFBFBF>'''Trinity Archives''', '''Command Board''', '''Helping Out''', '''Clean Up of the Month''', '''Wanted/Popular Articles''', '''Current Happenings''', '''Traverse Town'''</font>
**Probably the biggest part of the entire page is what to do with these sections, some of which seem redundant. During the June Roundtable, I brought up the potential to bring back Clean up of the Month as part of the Traverse Town Project: Reconstruction, which the wiki accepted. I think it'd be great to merge and add the Command Board and Helping Out sections to Traverse Town. Thus, we'd make Traverse Town a hub for getting involved and getting work done, which I think is a great idea. If we do merge the sections to Traverse Town, then it makes the merging them together irrelevant. Plus, we'd get more traffic to Traverse Town, which could get these sections more relevance and help get work done. Regarding the Wanted/Popular Articles, it'd be good to do something similar to the Clean-up of the Month and rotate a list from [[Special:WantedPages|<font color=#FFFFFF>Special:WantedPages</font>]]. As for Popular Articles, such a thing exists in [[KHWiki:Traverse_Town/1st_District/Item_Shop|<font color=#FFFFFF>one of the pages of Traverse Town</font>]], so we could not add this to the main page. I feel we should remove it all together, because, as you noted, there isn't really a good way of determining popular articles. Trinity Archives, I think, definitely belongs on the side, especially since it already takes little space as far as text goes. Current Happenings seems to be the Wiki's version of the Trinity Archives (which I guess is more game related), which seems redundant because the Trinity Archives does the same thing anyways.
*'''Navigation Bar''': Includes <font color=#BFBFBF>'''Navigation Bar''', '''Search Bar''', '''Toolbox''', '''Community Bar'''</font>
**When I said remove the navigation bar, I actually meant moving it to the top of the page, as in the top of the site. Much like Wikia or, as in the example, NIWA, have done it. I concur, the ideas related to these items should be rejected. It's not that I don't want them, it's that they're more an entire-site issue, and we're only dealing with the Main Page. However, I feel that we should keep in mind that, that some of the items on the Navigation side bar are often ignored or forgotten. Like the main page and Traverse Town, the side bar should probably be made somewhat more prominent/emphasized so that we use the items there. But that's for a different day.
*'''Portals''':
**Self explanatory. Portals were a popular topic/addition in the previous discussion. What kinds of portals do we want? Content portals like the Fanon Wiki has? Or Game Portals like the Zelda Wiki has? The Fanon Wiki has these for their portals: Characters, Enemies, Stories (which would be replaced with "Games"), Worlds, Weapons, Abilities, Images, and Templates. I think Xion expressed support for Game portals over Content portals, which makes sense. Like she mentioned, the content items have their own links on the side. The games do as well, but they're a little more hidden. I personally prefer the Game portals. If it was noticed (and I'm sure Xion remembers, because she was the one who deleted it), I made a timeline image (of sorts) as a image map that linked to the games. Would that be effective? (NOTE: If we do that, we'd no longer have a use for [[Kingdom_Hearts_(series)/Timeline|<font color=#FFFFFF>this article</font>]], not that it ever really took off, no matter how many times I tried) What else do we want from these portals?
*'''General Aesthetics and Content Layout''': Includes <font color=#BFBFBF>'''Font sizes''', '''Color theme''', '''Background color''', '''Images''', '''Content Layout'''</font>
**Pretty general. Definitely a slightly bigger font, so that the words we use on the page are less like an article. I like the idea of using a background color, it should be a color that matches the current theme (in this case, it'd be some light gray of some sort). I think it should be much like the Bulbapedia home page, as far as that goes. Definitely more images all around, which seems to be an agreed-upon point. As far as content layout goes, I'll elaborate on this below.

I'm really sorry to keep extending this, but I feel we need to get all the cards on the table (I'll be honest, you won't tell from the timestamp, but I've been wording this response for a good part of the day). So, here are the existing contents. Tying with the Content Layout, I think it's time to determine what we want to keep and what we're hacking down to inexistence with the Keyblade. I'm open to adding new content/sections, if we want to.
*'''Welcome'''
*'''Mirage Arena'''
*'''Featured Article'''
*'''Featured Media'''
*'''Featured User'''
*'''Helping Out'''
*'''Command Board'''
*'''Trinity Archives'''
*'''Current Happenings'''
*'''Did you know?'''
*'''Quote of the Moment'''
*'''SEIWA'''

Now, here are some of my ideas regarding the Content Layout part. Much of this is in agreement with FM and Xion's suggestions.
*'''Welcome''': Center it across the top of the page.
*'''Mirage Arena''': FM suggested making this a community events box, which I totally support. It would contain the Mirage Arena and the Magazine. FM said to add the podcast, but I feel that's taken care of by the Magazine link, since the Podcast is hosted in the Magazine. Perhaps we'll leave space empty but ready for other events, since I know we'll soon have a competition and Let's Play, right?
*'''Featured Article/Media/User''': Definitely keep. We're getting this up and running, and I think they work fine right now. At the end, these sections only work as long as we keep voting. One thing is moving the Featured User section out of the side bar. It's a...little squished. Of course, I could just stop writing long descriptions, but I don't think we want to go there....
*'''Helping Out/Command Board/Current Happenings''': Please see above, especially if you somehow skipped the first part of the essay. I feel we should kill these sections off, because they're a little redundant, and recreate them as part of a new section called Traverse Town. I'll elaborate on that below.
*'''Trinity Archives''': Again, see above. Only suggestion is to move it to the side.
*'''Did you know?/Quote of the Moment''': Kill it, kill it with fire. Especially "Did you know?". This was a concern in the previous discussion, the fact that the trivia facts would quickly be memorized, which is true. I don't even notice it anymore because I already know everything that could show up. As for Quote of the Moment, I personally love it still, but there's no use for it. So, I feel I will just give up the fight and let it die, unless you guys want to keep it. It's just a fun thing. Unlike the Did you know?, Quote of the Moment actually has a lot of sources to get content at (see all the Quotes pages).
*'''SEIWA''': I don't know what to say about this. Kill it? But then, what about the alliance that, from what I gather, the wiki helped create? But it's dead. But we made it. But, but, but. It's like choosing between Donald Trump and Rahm Emanuel, it's hard for me to choose one of the two (thanks, Jon Stewart, for that comparison).
*'''Traverse Town''': A new section I'm proposing. I feel that if we move Command Board/Current Happenings/Helping Out to Traverse Town, then they no longer have a use on the Main Page, at least not separately. So, I propose we re-write these sections as part of one section called Traverse Town. The section would introduce the Community Portal, give information on helping out, and what not. I feel that this would probably take up a good part of the space, though.

Holy cow, that was a lot. Again, I apologize for this wall-o-essay (Dang it, should have submitted this to my English teacher before graduation...). I look back at this post and wonder if I had this all bottled up somewhere secret in my head all this time. I hope we can get this rolling now so we can get people here and interested!
}}
{{Xion4ever|time=04:25, 19 June 2014 (UTC)|talktext=I've given up on trying to comment on every point. That's just a waste of text/space. So, I'll just make comments, in no order.

The navigation bar and everything else on the left side of the page is, in my opinion, best left where it currently is. Call me old-fashioned, lazy, etc., but cramming all that information on the main page is taking space away from other things we could put on the main page. If we want to feature/add a couple/few of these "hidden/forgotten items" from the left sidebar, we can. However, I think adding most/every main point is unnecessary.

Portals: Yup, I really dig the gaming portals like the Zelda Wiki has. Pure awesomeness. The KH Fanon Wiki's portals are examples of things I personally think just clutter up the main page/are better off left in the navigation/left side of the page. As for the timeline page, I say we hold off before deleting that. Once we get some of these major projects done, then we can tackle revising that page. <small>Bloody manga articles...</small> I really like how the Zelda Wiki did the images: small circles with an appropriate image. We don't need an elaborate/huge image for these portals...Least, I don't think so.

Background/"fancy fonts": Sounds fine to me.

Content: This is pretty much a list of what I think belongs on the main page.
*Welcome
*Mirage Arena
*Featured Article
*Featured Media
*Featured User
*('''New section''') Traverse Town- consisting of: helping out/command board/current happenings. This should be the forefront or the place where all our community info. should be. Remember, this doesn't have to point out every little bit the community does. Just some highlights to get people to say "Oooh! I like that!" or "Wow!"
*SEIWA
*Trinity Archives
*Clean up of the month: Could this be replaced by the "wanted files?" Or should the two share a box and half be clean up/half be wanted files?}}

{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)|default=I thought the wanted files is already part of the command board/helping out. Also, I don't like the idea of having game portals. They seem redundant when the Wiki has already organised clear navboxes, search engines and categories. In most cases, if someone is looking for a particular thing, they can find it easily. So I don't think the portals are worth having. I agree with everything else.}}

{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=01:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Ok, [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Project Page 5|<font color=#FFFFFF>Here is the draft</font>]]. It isn't finished yet, I'll get to that later. But so far, this is what I've been able to do. What do you guys think?}}
{{Xion4ever|time=20:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)|text=Before I comment on Keyblade's draft, I feel like this should be said. 

I think we could really use some other feedback on here. We have some good ideas going between the three of us, but if we really want this to work I think having other users' input is really going to help us along. This is a pretty big thing we're doing, changing the front page. That's something a lot of people are going to see, and for some it might even be their first impression of us. This should be a community decision, not just something between [not even] a handful of users. Some might say "what makes this different from our articles or images? Everything on a Wiki is important, no matter how "small" or insignificant it seems." That is very true. However, there is something called common courtesy/decency in which you respond or help someone who is asking for assistance/a question- whatever it may be...Especially if you have it in your being/power to do so. Every single user can help on this. Even a simple comment as "Yeah, I like your ideas. Sounds good to me." or "You guys are idiots, that layout sucks" would help. Also, let it be known that, once the "new" main page has been finalized, if I hear someone comment about how they hate "something" about it, I will first check this forum to see if they commented and then proceed to politely tell them to shut up. The only reason I see people not commenting on this is: they are inactive (to be defined several sentences down), or they just don't care. If the latter is the case, I hope that is is because you aren't sure how to help out. Even then, if that's the case, feel free to say so! Someone will be glad to tell you what we could use help on. Heck, ask me on my talkpage and I'll get back to you within a day.

I'm tired of hoping others will comment just from seeing this on the recent changes... I'm up for a ''better'' way of getting some action. Be it a mass talkpage heads up, which is what we used to do, or a daily IRC reminder- something. Everyone is always "online," yet no one is editing or posting feedback, which is outrageous. The same users are doing all the work and begging for input. That is even more outrageous. If you're inactive, meaning you are literally never logged on to the Wiki/can't help due to real life interferences, that's perfectly understandable. However, logging in and being here every day, Wiki or IRC? Absolutely ridiculous. I hate to get nasty and be like this, but, dang it people, this is important. '''''We need your help.'''''

Now, about your recent draft...

First, good job. That is a lot of work to do. Fifteen made a good point about the game portals, and I think the easiest way to decide this is <s>more input</s> determining whether or not we want to specifically feature the games. "What is it that we want to spotlight?" Is a better question for anything being on the main page, I guess. Secondly, I think the "Join us in our community events!" box should be more towards the top of the page. On the draft page, there is a mention of creating a third column? What if we decided to do that? Could we place the Traverse Town section in the middle and then fill in the surrounding space with the remaining boxes [categories]?}}
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 {{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=18:10, 12 April 2014 (UTC)|text=Hey, guys! As part of '''MegaProject: Arise''', it was decided yesterday to revamp the Main Page. We would like the community's opinions on what we should change and how to revamp the Main Page. What should we have on the Main Page, and how can we make it more appealing so that we can increase community activity? Discuss!}}
-==Pre-Launch==
+==Discussion==
-===Discussion===
 {{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=03:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)|text=So I think one of the things we need to change is the Command Board. It should be more prominent and more updated in telling the community what needs work, so that way, passing and new visitors can feel like they have something to contribute to.}}
@@ Line 79: / Line 78: @@
 }}
-====Reopening, for reals...====
+===Reopening, for reals...===
 {{Xion4ever|time=03:42, 17 June 2014 (UTC)|talktext=<small>Alternate title was {{w|Better Homes and Gardens (magazine)|Better Homes and Gardens}}: Wiki Style.</small> Whew, it's been a while...About two months to be exact. >_> Since the magazine and podcast are well on their way, how about we get this project rolling? I know Keyblade has waited very patiently for some contributions. I'm sorry my two cents, for whatever they are worth, are late. ^_^; Alrighty then...
@@ Line 158: / Line 157: @@
 {{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)|default=I thought the wanted files is already part of the command board/helping out. Also, I don't like the idea of having game portals. They seem redundant when the Wiki has already organised clear navboxes, search engines and categories. In most cases, if someone is looking for a particular thing, they can find it easily. So I don't think the portals are worth having. I agree with everything else.}}
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=01:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Ok, [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 7|<font color=#FFFFFF>Here is the draft</font>]]. It isn't finished yet, I'll get to that later. But so far, this is what I've been able to do. What do you guys think?}}
+{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=01:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Ok, [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Project Page 5|<font color=#FFFFFF>Here is the draft</font>]]. It isn't finished yet, I'll get to that later. But so far, this is what I've been able to do. What do you guys think?}}
 {{Xion4ever|time=20:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)|text=Before I comment on Keyblade's draft, I feel like this should be said.
@@ Line 168: / Line 167: @@
 First, good job. That is a lot of work to do. Fifteen made a good point about the game portals, and I think the easiest way to decide this is <s>more input</s> determining whether or not we want to specifically feature the games. "What is it that we want to spotlight?" Is a better question for anything being on the main page, I guess. Secondly, I think the "Join us in our community events!" box should be more towards the top of the page. On the draft page, there is a mention of creating a third column? What if we decided to do that? Could we place the Traverse Town section in the middle and then fill in the surrounding space with the remaining boxes [categories]?}}
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=00:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Ok, since I feel personally responsible for starting this discussion, I'll try and get other editors here to comment. Seriously, I agree with Xion. This isn't like the Magazine or Project Music or any other discussion we've had as a result of MegaProject: Arsie. We need everyone on this project to discuss because this affects the single-most important page on the entire site: the Home Page. It affects the very thing that represents each and everyone of us as editors of the wiki. If people don't like the Home Page, very few will be attracted to stay very long. I'm really sorry if I've become annoying with this, but I really hope we can somehow get this going so the Home Page works as an effective advertisement to our professionalism, our fanaticism, our community, our site.
-Going on to the actual discussion, I personally came to love the idea of portals. I think they quickly promote the very foundation of the wiki: the games. They were originally presented as category portals, but I do find those ineffective. As for the draft, I'm still testing layouts. I want to move Community Events up, but that pushes Featured Media to the bottom, which I don't think we want to do either. Again, I'm still testing out how to best sort the layout. Of course, I'm open to any suggestions. As far as a third column. I feel we could do it. There is one problem. I checked out the wiki from a visitor's point of view (thank you, Incognito) and found that the Home Page is plagued in advertisements (I wouldn't know that because of my ad-blocker). The Main Page is thus reduced in space in comparison to my draft page. So, three columns would be rather squished. However, I am willing to try it out. Regarding Traverse Town, I feel we need to determine where the sections we're removing from the Main Page are going to go in Traverse Town. I know, it sounds like I'm pushing for the other project at the same time. But, if we determine where these sections will go (namely, Current Happenings, Command Board, and Helping Out), we can use the Traverse Town section not only to supply that information, but also to advertise the entire Community Portal. And trust me, Traverse Town is in dire need of traffic. I personally feel they do best in the First District. Right now, the draft has links all over Traverse Town because of the way the [[Forum:MegaProject: Arise - Traverse Town Project|<font color=#FFFFFF>discussion</font>]] has gone. But I feel that pages and information related to new users and help should be in the First District. That way, new users start in the First District, similar to how Sora started in the First District in the game. Thus, the section related to Traverse Town on the Main Page will have links to areas in the First District, rather than all over the place. Any other thoughts? Additions?}}
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=04:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Here's an idea about the game portals we could implement. The [http://www.zeldawiki.org <font color=#FFFFFF>Zelda Wiki</font>] has hover frames for each game, and that lists some important links related to the game. What do you guys think? Would it be something we would want to do? I've seen the coding, and it doesn't look too hard to implement.}}
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 17:15, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|default=I'm still not too big on the portal idea but ignore me if I'm a minority :P
-Couple of points:
-*Can we try it with a white background?
-*The three columns is very effective.
-*Quote of the Moment and Countdown are temporary things so the Featured Media will be pushed up anyway.
-*If we want to release this sometime soon, we should replace the Let's Play image with something else or remove it (since the LP isn't happening yet).
-*Traverse Town could be organised more neatly. We can have three headers:
-**'''Helping Out''': All the info and links for the Third District (so the projects and improvements)
-**'''Guide for New Editors''': All the info and links for the Fourth District (tutorials and MoS)
-**'''Visit the rest of Traverse Town!''': Something to encourage people to see the First, Second and Fifth Districts (e.g. "visit the rest of Traverse Town to understand more about the Wiki, engage with the community and meet the staff...")
-Sorry for writing in a rough note form (it's the quickest way to feedback when replying to so many forums simultaneously :P)}}
-{{neumannz|time=20:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|text=<nowiki/>
-*I think having the hover-portals like Zelda Wiki would be amazing, and I'd love to see that kind of visual (and function) on our front page.
-*Regarding Traverse Town organization, I would like to see something similar to what you have for the community events section. Like, sub-boxes.
-*I thought the consensus was for scrapping the quote?}}
-{{ShardofTruth|time=21:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|talk=I've read the whole thread and all related sub-threads and there are some very good ideas listed here. I still think it would be more helpful for everyone if you'd use even simple mockups to present your ideas as some of them may sound good in theory but may not look so well when actually implemented. There is definitely too much information on the main page, so I'm all for cutting it down.<br>
-Learning from the Zelda Wiki means learning from the best, I really like their portals but keep in mind that our wiki works very differently template-wise and at least from my point of view linking pages with similiar content works better on our end which is of course mostly due to the different focus of both game series where most Zelda games stand alone and are not so heaviliy connected.<br>
-I really like their community portal though: It's tidy and focusses on the most important aspects of the communty work, unlike our Traverse Town which is hard to navigate and cluttered. At least in my opinion not every special site has to be linked, not every tool presented for every-day purposes. If you're a senior editor you know where this stuff is and how to use it but the community portal should be for new and causaul editors and should therefore only contain the most vital and important pages. This is certainly also true for the main page itself.}}
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=23:04, 24 June 2014 (UTC)|TRON=I'm so grateful that you guys have actually come to contribute. So first off, Thanks!
-Now, on to business. I've asked, and the people at the Zelda Wiki are ok with us using their code to make the portals. I really think this could be something that would prove a) useful, b)fun, cool, visually appealing, and c) uses/harnesses the freedom that we obtained when we split Wikia, which was a big point in the last discussion. So I will go ahead and try it out on the draft. Answering some points:
-*I don't think white is a good color, though I will try it, but I think that just sends us back to where we are today, a rather-plain Main Page.
-*Regarding Traverse Town, it's a plain mess, and the section reflects that. I'll be honest, I haven't gotten to organizing that section. I don't know if I was understood, maybe I rambled too much, but I left it like that because we had mentioned merging Current Happenings, Helping Out, and Command Board to Traverse Town. At least for me, I had to figure out where exactly those sections would go in the Community Portal before I organized the section on the Main Page. Which is why it's still a mess, I ran out of time yesterday, though I will try and get it organized today or tomorrow at latest. I feel that Traverse Town should be a place for all editors, hence a community portal, not a beginner's portal. However, that can be discussed on the [[Forum:MegaProject: Arise - Traverse Town Project|<font color=#FFFFFF>Traverse Town Reconstruction forum</font>]].
-*Three columns was a fear at first for me because of the ads, but a test yesterday revealed that the ads are actually pushed out a bit, so I'm really hoping this is accepted.
-*The Quote is there for personal sentimental reasons (ok, not sentimental). Unlike the Trivia, Quote of the Moment I think is a pretty nice addition and it has a ton of sources to get from ([[:Category:Quotes|<font color=#FFFFFF>Category:Quotes</font>]]). However, I realize that it will ultimately be removed. Perhaps it will be put somewhere in Traverse Town, or something. We'll see. I'll remove it for now.
-*The LP is definitely a placeholder for now. I'll remove it, unless we can find something better to replace it.
-}}
-{{Xion4ever|time=04:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)|text=I, too, was also under the impression that quote of the moment was scrapped. As for Traverse Town: Go with Neummanz's suggestion on making the sub-box, using the three headings 15 came up with. Replacing the Let's Play: We can always put on the KHWiki:Let's Play (whatever official page we have for it) something like "Coming soon!" Websites do that all the time. As for revamping Traverse Town: this should probably go on the other forum, but to me, Traverse Town should be a unique mixture of important links/stuff for new people to know, but at the same time, have some actual worth to older editors. I'm not entirely sure how to pull this off, though.}}
-===Examples/Tests===
-I've got [http://1drv.ms/1sDeKFN this] and [http://1drv.ms/1q6BJay this] as tests of the ideas we've thrown in here. And of course, the [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 7|draft]]. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 04:41, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)|persuade=If we're going to implement portals, instead of having them only be a bunch of links and redundant to the navigation boxes, I have an idea to make them more original. Having all sixteen titles may seem daunting to a newcomer unfamiliar with the series so we could add basic statistics at the top of each hover menu. This is for the benefit for those wishing to understand every title in the series without being confused about remakes or recollections (at least this is what I have tried to do many times when looking at other Wikis). The statistics can include:
-*Platform
-*Region (JP only or international?)
-*<small>If an original game:</small> Adaptations (list any Final Mixes or ReMIXes)
-*<small>If a Final Mix:</small> Adaptation of...
-*<small>If a ReMIX:</small> Remasters of... (list the games the collection contains)
-Then, the links to all the categories can go at the end of the hover menu. Thoughts on this?
-EDIT: Just a note. The three columns doesn't work well when viewing it with a mobile device. How big a problem is that?}}
-:15's suggestion on the portals sounds fine to me. On the portal information, in general: We don't have to have every single category or topic known to mankind about the game. Just a brief/general list of noteworthy things. If we make the portals too complex/full not only are they redundant as 15 said, but we'll be throwing a lot of information at the viewer. As for the mobile device: All things considered? I'd say that is minor. Most people won't be looking at it from their phones- though some definitely will. I say we aim for as many fronts as we can, without compromising the main front [computers]. Also, wherever we can place a vote, I vote for a colored background. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 23:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
-I'll do what I can to limit the information. See, I don't think its redundant because the portals remain on the main page. It acts more like a gateway to the game page and all its related pages. But I will do what I can to get to a compromise. As far as mobile. To be honest, the page does very poorly on mobile currently, and I don't think there should be too much a difference. However, I'm really inspired from watching Google I/O, so I might look into developing a dedicated and better mobile page (and perhaps an app?). Regardless, I feel we should not worry too much about the mobile version, because for the most part it shouldn't be too different from how it appears now.
-More examples, this time the portal in practice. [http://1drv.ms/1sJ8e0p here] and [http://1drv.ms/1sJ8fl0 here] {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 00:18, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=05:46, 2 July 2014 (UTC)|TRON=First, two more screenshots. We've got [http://1drv.ms/1qplpBL <font color=#FFFFFF>this</font>] and [http://1drv.ms/1k3QL9s <font color=#FFFFFF>this</font>]. What do you guys think? Does it meet that compromise of information/stats over just links.
-I think it's okay. I'm having a little trouble with the coding, but I'm sure that it'll sort itself out soon. As far as the rest of the page, are we good? Any other suggestions/ideas/additions? If you need to, the draft [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 7|<font color=#FFFFFF>is right here</font>]]. I feel that if we finish designing the main page, we should get it on the actual main page, even if it's without the portals. We could add those later, if needed. That is, of course, if they're not ready when the rest of the page is finalized.}}
-I'm liking the portals so far. I actually do use my phone fairly often, but not usually to visit the main page, so the three columns won't be a big impact, practically speaking, but it's not nice to see like that. At some point we should fix that.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 14:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
-:I like the portals too. I think we should have two rows of portals, one of main releases and the other of remasters so "newbies" can comprehend the series quicker. Also, on each hover menu, we should say which game it is chronologically. Like always, the problem comes with CoM and Days since CoM is sandwiched between two halves of Days. We should release the main page after the portals are fixed; there's no rush to have it out there. The mobile problem can be fixed with the potential app that will happen. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:15, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
-::I'll definitely split them into two rows. I was going to list them chronologically, actually, but, as you noted, it gets complicated with KHCOM and KH358, since they happen simultaneously. Again, a [[Kingdom Hearts (series)/Timeline|timeline]] would be great. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 17:14, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=05:42, 5 July 2014 (UTC)|TRON=The Main Page is complete as suggestions given here go! Images will go up tomorrow!
-'''EDIT''': [http://1drv.ms/1m3czXD <font color=#FFFFFF>Here is a link to the entire folder of screenshots</font>]. The last five are from today. As of right now, the Main Page and Portals are complete. What do you guys think? Is it good? Do we want to add more to the Main Page?}}
-:Looks like it's ready for release. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 18:34, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
-===Finished!===
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=21:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)|happy=It's finished! The new Main Page is up! Please, feedback is necessary! There are some known bugs, and there's a request for using something other than the game icons in the game portals. So if there're any changes you guys want, be sure to list them.
-Guys, thanks so much for helping me with this project. I know I couldn't have done this without your help. Thanks to you guys, another huge project to MegaProject: Arise has been completed. Honestly, from the bottom of my heart:
-[[File:Tron Thanks KHII.gif|center]]
-}}
-==Post-Launch==
-===Known Issues===
-'''UPDATED:''' July 9, 2014
-*<s>Game portals do not work in Vector and RoundedBlue. Reason: CSS for Portals is missing in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Roundedblue.css]]</s>
-*Mobile version does not look good with the three columns. The hope right now is that the mobile extension Porplemontage will install will fix this issue. It's somehow connected with logging-in...
-**Earlier today it looked fine when I was not logged in, but wrong after I did. Now it looks fine, except column 3 slightly extends outside the box. Can someone else verify before this gets crossed out?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:21, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
-===Further Feedback===
-If I might offer my two cents, I would like to comment specifically on the color.  The solid gray seems a bit flat, as there are really no breaks in it.  Additionally, it makes the borders of the boxes faint.  The Bublbapedia main page, for instance, breaks it up nicely with multiple neutral colors.  It seems as if we are trying to emphasize the middle column especially, so, perhaps, a more emphasizing color there would be a good start?
-Also, if I might make another suggestion, I feel it would be useful for organizational purposes to make the content of the content-heavy boxes into templates (like Featured User or Featured Article currently have) so that each part of the page can be identified and modified more quickly if needed.  Given that it is not updated super-often, this might not be necessary, but it wouldn't be bad either way.  '''<small>[[User talk:Obitus|<font color=#70003D>Lord</font>]] [[User:Obitus|<font color=#70003D>Obitus</font>]]</small>''' 20:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=04:55, 7 July 2014 (UTC)|TRON=First of all, just a fun note, since the wiki's launch in 2006, the Main Page has now been changed fourteen times, including changes to the color scheme. The fourteenth update was the one I released yesterday, released in 2014. It's the same with the last two updates. Version 12 was released in 2012 for ''[[Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance|<font color=#FFFFFF>Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance</font>]]'' and Version 13 was released in 2013 for ''[[Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX|<font color=#FFFFFF>Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX</font>]]'' Strange, right?
-Anyways. I will try and use other neutral colors, if that's the consensus. How would we do it? Like, what kinds of colors do you guys want, and where would they go? It would have to be grays, since that's the current color scheme, especially with ''Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX'' coming up. I feel for ''Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMIX'', the theme would be light grays and, looking closely, a dark purple. You guys can have fun with that. As for your other suggestion, I'm not sure what you mean. Most of the content is in templates already, with the exception of Traverse Town, and I don't think there's a point in moving that, since it's not meant to change, like at all. The Trinity Archives also aren't in a template, and I guess it could be moved to a template, if we wanted to. But, it'd still be updated, just not directly on the Main Page.
-Version 14.05 is in testing in the [[User:KeybladeSpyMaster/Gadget Lab/Project Page 7|<font color=#FFFFFF>Draft page</font>]]. If you guys feel the need, go ahead and edit it yourselves, play with the test page. Just, you know, please don't vandalize it. Please... Also, just a heads up: I'm re-organizing my userspace this week, specifically my Gadget Lab and associated Project Pages. That includes the location of the Main Page Draft, so if you find a sudden empty page where the draft is supposed to be, you now know why...}}
-{{ShardofTruth|time=20:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)|talk=The new main page looks great, so congrats to everyone involved and especially to you KeybladeSpyMaster. Two things though: Maybe the Player, Chirishii and the Fortellers should be included in the KHX template as characters and secondly we should probably redesign the game symbols to make them look a bit prettier or at least remove the white background. Soxra did someting similiar with the images at the Keyhole before he retired ([http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:KH2_icon.png here]), what do you think?}}
-----
-I currently haven't experimented with the colors yet, but I have played with the SEIWA template.  On smaller monitors, the triple columns significantly compressed the look (as seen [http://i.imgur.com/2AkUfiQ.png here], making it look broken and awkward.  After a little modification, I got [http://i.imgur.com/awloR6c.png this] look on the same scale monitor.  It both keeps continuity and reduces space consumption.  The downside, I suppose, would be that it makes the appearance more "vertical," if that makes sense, which makes it blend a little too much.  More or less, I think this version or one similar should be implemented.  Additionally, I think coloring the logo image itself red would be of benefit to the page, as the grey brushstroke on the gray background is very flat-looking.  {{User:Obitus/sig/temp}} 06:02, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
-'''Edit: 06:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)'''<br/>
-So, my color testing is done.  The version I would like to put forth is [[User:Obitus/colortest|here]].  I added a lighter background to each content area to make them pop more and gave a three-point gradient to the portal area so it stands out even more.  The gradient seems like a bit much, though.
-For the sake of easy comparison, [http://i.imgur.com/mFqf1ed.png here] is the current page versus my current revision ([http://i.imgur.com/31F0BxO.png with] or [http://i.imgur.com/vYfqC16.png without] the gradient).  Highlighting the backgrounds makes the content pop more, methinks, though, again, I don't know about the gradient.
-The unevenness in the example images is due mainly to modifications I made in the templates for the sake of space saving.  {{User:Obitus/sig/temp}} 06:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
-----
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=15:01, 9 July 2014 (UTC)|TRON=I really like the changes, except the gradient. Perhaps we should not do a gradient as a background? Anyone else?}}
-:Agreed. The changes are good except the gradient. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:14, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
-{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=05:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)|TRON=Regarding the links that were added back, I think they should be removed (and I deliberately removed them) because those links are in Traverse Town and on the Navigation Bar, and since the point is to emphasize Traverse Town, I find them redundant now. Not to mention the welcome banner looks cleaner. However, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.}}
-====Clean Up of the Month===
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 12:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)|default=Should we give the CUotM more attention by replacing the "There are projects that need your help! Come to the Third District!" part of the Traverse Town box with the latest Clean Up instead? Then, we can add at the end, "Visit the rest of the Third District to other projects and more find more ways to help out". Thoughts?}}
-==The Mobile Home Page==
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 12:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)|default=Porple has said that we can design an alternate main page specifically for the mobile view (see [[Forum:Mobile Issues]]). At the moment, the mobile main page is a whole load of scrolling down bland text and resized images. What should we do to change this? I have no concrete ideas at the moment; all I'm thinking is we need to reduce the amount of content to make the home page more compact. Thoughts?}}
-:Not sure about you guys, but when I'm using the Wiki on my phone, which isn't very often, I'm looking to see what edits have been made/checking out articles. That in mind, to me, I'm up for some information clipping for the mobile version. Trinity Archives and some type of variation to our game portals for information on both the Wiki and games. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 02:44, 22 July 2014 (UTC)