Editing Talk:Seven Guardians of Light

==Yen Sid?==
Should we include Yen Sid on the "other members" list? While not explicitly named as essentially being one (like Donald and Goofy) nor appearing as a party member (like Roxas or Xion), he does appear before the final showdown to offer support, and is the one helping these folks all organize. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 20:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:I think we should only include the chess pieces, but I'm not sure who all is included there.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

== Lea/Roxas, Kairi/Xion ==

Watching that scene, I'm not really seeing how it would be taking their ''roles'' as part of the seven. It feels a lot more like "hey, you guys were fighting Saix, but let us finish the battle".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:54, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
:Ultimania states that the final lineup of Guardians replaces Lea and Kairi with Roxas and Terra. Xion was a "temporary" member. [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 03:59, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
::Okay...but that's dumb as hell. Nomura didn't give us any reason for there to ''be'' a lineup by that point.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
:::He evidently really wanted all of the main player characters in the lineup and it matches up with the chess pieces. *shrug* [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

== Main/other members ==

The game presents us with the Seven Guardians of Light in the cutscene proceeding Ventus’ rescue. Yen Sid remarks that Donald and Goofy acts as kind of two additional guardians. But they are not considered to be part of the seven. Nor are Terra, Roxas, Xion, and Riku Replica. Do we even have any sources that properly confirm any of these to be considered guardians at all? And if they are considered to be guardians be extension, they still aren’t a part of the core seven. So we remove the main and other categories from the page? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:14, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 == Main/other members ==
-The game presents us with the Seven Guardians of Light in the cutscene proceeding Ventus’ rescue. Yen Sid remarks that Donald and Goofy acts as kind of two additional guardians. But they are not considered to be part of the seven. Nor are Terra, Roxas, Xion, and Riku Replica. Do we even have any sources that properly confirm any of these to be considered guardians at all? And if they are considered to be guardians by extension, they still aren’t a part of the core seven. So why remove the main and other categories from the page? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:14, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
+The game presents us with the Seven Guardians of Light in the cutscene proceeding Ventus’ rescue. Yen Sid remarks that Donald and Goofy acts as kind of two additional guardians. But they are not considered to be part of the seven. Nor are Terra, Roxas, Xion, and Riku Replica. Do we even have any sources that properly confirm any of these to be considered guardians at all? And if they are considered to be guardians be extension, they still aren’t a part of the core seven. So we remove the main and other categories from the page? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:14, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-:I'm not sure I understand what the issue is, but the only other people who explicitly take a spot among the seven are Xion and Roxas, after Lea is defeated and Kairi is kidnapped. Neither Terra nor the Riku Replica are ever explicitly named guardians. Why are all these others listed here again? {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 21:27, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-::The Ultimania explicitly states that Terra is one of them, taking Kairi's "spot". Likewise, it states that Roxas takes Lea's "spot", and the game itself says that Xion takes Kairi's spot at one point. As they are treated as full members of the "seven", they should not be relegated to a side list just because they weren't there when the battle started.
-::If I'm remembering correctly, Donald and Goofy are presented as part of the Guardians when the Guardians show up to stop Kingdom Hearts. Riku Replica can definitely be removed.
-::Essentially, the game and Ultimania do ''not'' make the division the page was making.
-::As for why I made the edit in the first place, the coding was breaking the page, and precedent instructs us to avoid tabbing galleries without clear purpose (like showing Keyblade evolution or FM enemy coloration). It's not meant to just be a page shortener -- collapsible tables should be used for that.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:37, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-:::I know there’s no point in arguing against the ultimania but in what way does Terra take Kairi’s spot? He’s not a party member. Also, doesn’t Kairi in a way forfill her role as a guardian by being the final key Xehanort needs? And also, how exactly does the ultimania present this information? By saying that Terra takes Kairi’s spot they’re basically saying he’s a reserve member and not part of the core seven prested within the fame, right? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:42, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-::::The guardians do not have reserve members. That's not a concept in the canon - that's something the Organization does, and is ''antithetical'' to how Sora views his friends. The lead image should absolutely include all stated members.
-::::I'd have to look it up, but I remember kh infoblock being fucking ''pissed'' about how it disrespects Xion. They probably have much more in-depth coverage of the topic.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:45, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-:[https://i.imgur.com/ZRzxoOc.jpg The Ultimania has the official Guardians line-up as follows] (with a note saying Xion "temporarily participated") ([https://pastebin.com/KCMkHsfu text translation]):
-* Sora
-* Riku
-* Mickey
-* Aqua
-* Ventus
-* Lea > Terra
-* Kairi > Roxas
-''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 21:47, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-:So based on this should Donald and Goofy be removed? - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 21:55, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
-::I'm fine with that, yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
-The in-game scenes, journal and ultimania all say that Xion acted a a guardian (albeit temporarily according to ultimania), so she should at least be an "Other member" in the same vein as the Replicanorts on the Real XIII page. --[[User:Vanitas|Vanitas]] ([[User talk:Vanitas|talk]]) 10:55, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
-:She should be fully listed.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:03, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
-::Why is Xion not fully listed?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
-:::Aren’t we listing only the ones that appear in this pic? [[https://i.imgur.com/ZRzxoOc.jpg]] - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] ([[User talk:JTD95|talk]]) 18:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
-:::: The note under Roxas actually says that Xion also participates. I don't know why she didn't get an image (maybe because she would be number 8), but it confirms she is part of the guardians of light. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:38, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
-In the game, Yen Sid said Donald and Goofy might as well be Guardians. Even though they're not officially, can't there at least be a small subsection appended to this article listing the Seven's other allies that participated in aiding them in the final battle? -[[User:Wikipirate|Wikipirate]] ([[User talk:Wikipirate|talk]]) 13:27, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
-:I'm not sure it should be a list, but it should definitely be included at least as prose.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:59, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
-== Lea ==
-I know it's based off info from the Ultimania, but Lea clearly resummons Bond of the Blaze in Re Mind after Xemnas breaks it. So... maybe the reasoning for Terra taking his spot should just be him being tired...? --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 00:03, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
-:I took another look at the Ultimania, and it says Lea was replaced because he was injured by Xemnas's attack, not that his Keyblade broke. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:56, 2 May 2023 (UTC)