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| {{Xienzo|time=00:54, December 14, 2009 (UTC)|text=Should we think of names for it? And all the other not named Keyblades, like Terra's, Aqua's, and Ven's? Or should we leave as is?}} | | {{Xienzo|time=00:54, December 14, 2009 (UTC)|text=Should we think of names for it? And all the other not named Keyblades, like Terra's, Aqua's, and Ven's? Or should we leave as is?}} |
| {{Maggosh|text=If there are no official names, ''there are no official names''. No naming them on a whim.}} | | {{Maggosh|text=If there are no official names, ''there are no official names''. No naming them on a whim.}} |
| {{Soraincarnate6903|text=Secret Report 13, Observations, Excerpt 3 says The “‘’The Gazing Eye: a Keyblade forged from the eye of the Master of Masters’’“ It seems clear to me at least the the Keyblade is named “The Gazing Eye”.}}
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| :You're responding to a discussion from back when it was only known as Master Xehanort's Keyblade. As of now, we currently know that it is called the No Name, and also The Gazing Eye (but by Luxu only).{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:04, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
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| == Image == | | == Image == |
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| :::'''Master''': "Hm. Actually, no name." | | :::'''Master''': "Hm. Actually, no name." |
| :::'''Luxu''': "No Name..." | | :::'''Luxu''': "No Name..." |
| ::{{nihongo|Gazing Eye|見つめる目|Mitsumeru Me}}, if you're interested, but the fact is, the Keyblade has no name, but Luxu calls it "Gazing Eye" and "No Name". What do we do? {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 02:24, 13 January 2017 (UTC) | | :::{{nihongo|Gazing Eye|見つめる目|Mitsumeru Me}}, if you're interested, but the fact is, the Keyblade has no name, but Luxu calls it "Gazing Eye" and "No Name". What do we do? {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 02:24, 13 January 2017 (UTC) |
| :::So, then the only official name we have for it is Master Xehanort's Keyblade.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:17, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::"No Name" is capitalized. That's kind of interesting and official-ish. For the record, IS 2.8 getting any kind of Ultimania? --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 05:39, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::I would say that, since Luxu kept the Keyblade until passing to his apprentice, he ''named'' it No Name. The Japanese version even has him using the katakana for No Name. I think the implication is that this is somehow the same thing the Mysterious Figure gives you, as in DDD Young Xehanort possessed by Xehanort uses a keychain that is basically a hybrid of both forms. So, No Name (Master of Masters/original) and No Name (Birth by Sleep)? {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 12:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::If we didn't have a more explicit name for the Keyblade, sure, but we do. The Ultimania have previously called it "Master Xehanort's Keyblade". It sucks, but so does [[Terra's Mark]], when Terra clearly didn't invent the damn thing even within BbS itself. Here's holding out hope that "Gazing Eye" or "No Name" get officialized within an Ultimania, but until they do, we don't have a good justification to start moving stuff.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:32, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::Just a small note: if "No Name" ''did'' become the official name, then given who's wielding it, it would be "No Name (Luxu/Xehanort)" and "No Name (Terra/Ventus/Aqua)". Both appear in BbS, so BbS is not a useful parser.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::::Well, like I said, "Luxu's No Name" can do the trick. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 16:19, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :Okay, but No Name is used in a story, so doesn't that count? And BbS actually works as a parser because it's the ''only time'' we see that one, while Xehanort's has been around ever since then, and due to being the first Keyblade, we could call it "No Name (original)", or maybe even "No Name (Gazing Eye)".
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| :Also, I would expect the Keyblade to not get any other name until it's actually used by the player or someone in the party. Like, Destiny's Embrace was only named in BBS when it was obtainable, with Nomura only calling "Kairi's Keyblade" before it. If so, we might only get a name other than "Master Xehanort's Keyblade" in KHIII, since I'm sure we'll able to play as Master Xehanort in the multiplayer. Square Enix recently had job offers for multiplayer programmers for KHIII (I think it was in LinkedIn, but KH13.com has the link somewhere), so we know they're at least intending to implement a multiplayer. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 17:20, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::As claimed on the Symbols page, where is it indicated that the Keyblade ever belonged to the Master? We don't see any of the apprentices wield Keyblades during the "receiving roles, names, and being told to start Unions" portion, so it seems likely that he was literally creating the Keyblade ''for'' Luxu, which would also explain why the other Foreteller's keychains have the Gazing Eye symbol (if he did the same thing with them).{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:43, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::Except that as fas as we know, ''only'' that Keyblade is known to allow him to see in the future. Plus, that is the first Keyblade (as confirmed in 2.5), and Nomura confirmed in Famitsu this week that the Master is the first wielder, and created the very first Keyblade by pulling it from the depths of his heart. Also, the way Luxu referred to that Keyblade as "the Gazing Eye" implied he was already familiar with it. Furthermore, the lion motif fits with "pride", not lust which Luxu is named after, and even the Master's box has the word "XSuper" in the vaguely-lion-shaped symbol. Heck, even Ava recognizes that Keyblade in the browser game, and is surprised to see it with Luxu.
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| :::Really Kryten, I'm not sure why you are doubting the Keyblade's ownership. We have no reason to believe it didn't exist before that moment, and Occam's Razor would require us to assume it was his, since we don't see him with any other Keyblade, and we know he is the first wielder. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 21:34, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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| Looks like this argument is not only gonna go on for a while, but it's not gonna go anywhere either. I'm out! --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 23:09, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::I was not aware of the Nomura interview -- if it says he pulled the MX Keyblade from his heart, then there we go. I did not see "X Super" on the box, but the Nomura interview should be enough. As far as the browser game, I did not get the impression that Ava recognized it, more that she was shocked Luxu was pulling a Keyblade on her.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:02, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::"Nomura: The Master knows about its existence. Using the X-blade as a model, he creates his own Keyblades. Well, by create I don’t mean that in the physical sense, such as forging and tempering them, I mean more along the lines of pulling one out from the depths of a heart."
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| ::::::Okay, so it doesn't say he pulled the Keyblade from ''his'' heart. He definitely forged it, but it's not clear that it was ever "his", in the same way that Riku's Keyblade was his.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :I would say that it's an explicit confirmation that it was his. Seriously Kryten, why are you so hung up on this? We were explicitly told this is the first Keyblade, and this si the first wielder, and he needs to have bequeathed the Foretellers somehow. Sometimes a locked door is just a locked door. Occam's Razor, man. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 02:16, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::He's just trying to make sure we don't end up misleading people with false information. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 05:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::I'm confused about it because we only see it in his hands for the fraction of a second ''as he gives it to Luxu''. Considering that he trained Luxu to become a Keyblade wielder, and this is the same moment that he gives him his task, it's not too far-fetched to interpret this as him making a Keyblade ''for'' Luxu, rather than just deciding to pass his own down. It also explains why we see the Gazing Eye in the other Foreteller blades -- if he made them for the other Foretellers, then it's basically like a magic keylogger, but if they made them for themselves, why would they include that symbol unless they were already aware of the Master's magic eye and his manipulative plans? Hell, does the Master have his own Keyblade, or did he use his students as guinea pigs on how to create them, and then let them keep them afterward?
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| :::Granted, though, we currently treat Destiny Embrace as Riku's Keyblade, when he did a similar procedure. Nomura's interview made it clear that it's considered Kairi's Keyblade, and she shows up with it later, so the question seems to more be -- does it count as being in the first handler's ownership if they're pulling it from the main owner's heart and handing it to them? Is that "ownership" or simply a parent helping with a school project? Somewhat related, should we treat Riku as being able to wield two Keyblades, or can he only wield one and the DE was never actually his, just him holding someone else's as he did with Oblivion or Sora did with Roxas's Keyblades?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::Question: When the Master says "No Name", does ''he'' use katakana? Or is it only Luxu? I can support that as an implied name if so.
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| ::::For ownership: basically my interpretation, with the info we have available (barring later interviews), is that we are seeing the same thing we saw with Destiny's Embrace. If we are considering it as being owned by Riku for a brief time, then we should do the same here; if we consider Kairi as the only true owner of that Destiny's Embrace, we should do the same here. And that's open to change if KH3/Ultimania/Nomura contradicts it in the future.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:04, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::The game retconning it as a "goat" (does horned lion only apply to the YX blade, then?) seems to indicate, per the symbology, that it should be Luxu's Keyblade first and foremost.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:45, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::Are we going with "No Name"? Does the Master use those kana, or only Luxu? If we do this, do we merge in the MF No Name and YX's Keyblade?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::[[No Name/Draft|Draft]]. Thoughts?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:29, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::Where is YX's Keyblade called No Name? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:42, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::I like it! Though, as Silent said, we don't actually know the name of his keyblade...even though the smallest bit of logic pretty much clears it up alongside a smidgen of conjecture. But...can we really go at it based on conjecture? 110% is that its name - we just don't have any actual proof lol. Also, why are we still using "horned lion" for YX's keyblade? It's the exact same emblem as on the base one - a goat. Game releases always supersede Ultimanias and other supplemental material, ''unless'' the Ultimania is released ''after the fact''. 2.8 is the most recent thing, so we're supposed to go with goats! Also...it wasn't a retcon lol. It was always goats. :P The Ultimanias were just wrong. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 20:36, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::::KH2.8 confirms goat for the original No Name, but not YX's version. The art for the YX blade shows unmistakably a lion, with fangs, for a special attack (we need to check how that special attack appears in the final game), and, to me, the emblem does not look the same -- the horns are similar, but the YXblade clearly has enlarged canines, different ears, and a different lower lip. That being said, it ''was'' concept art, so if we decide that it's still a goat and omit lion entirely within the visible text, we should still have a ref note that it was at one point intended to be a horned lion.
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| ::::::::The YX blade is a combination of the two prior No Names -- and for that matter, No Name may be the name of the Keyblade itself, but if we're accepting No Name as the MXblade then it seems obvious that the TVAblade, in-universe, got its name from that (also, Japan, seriously? "The Nameless" sounds so much better). I'm fine splitting it off if y'all want, but it doesn't seem necessary. Hell, we could easily just specify that it has no official name, and is just on the page for ease of reading ("the unnamed variant of the No Name used by YX..."), but name-claims aside, this page definitely seems like the best fit.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:31, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::::Without official confirmation that YX Keyblade is called No Name, I think we should split it. It does look like a combination of the two No Names, but that doesn't mean it's the same. (Lea's Keyblade looks like a combination of Bond of Flame and Frolic Flame, but that doesn't mean it is one of those.) I would prefer to split each Keyblade to its own page, since they have very different designs, and there's a lot of story involved for just one version, but I'm okay with putting the two No Names together on one page. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:55, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::::::Three-way split is doable if we are splitting of YXblade rather than just specifying it as "nameless" -- merging the two confirmed No Names doesn't make as much sense without that bridge between them.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::::::In that case, I suggest moving TVA No Name to "No Name (KHBbS)", since it only appears in BBS, unlike MX's, which appears in a lot of games. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::::::::So, "No Name (Original)", "No Name (KHBbS)", and "Young Xehanort's Keyblade"? Or have MXblade be "No Name" with youmay to the other two?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:54, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
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| :::::::::::::I would go for just "No Name", with a youmay to "No Name (KHBbS)" and a see also to Young Xehanort's Keyblade, since it doesn't have the same or a similar name. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:27, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
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| ::::::::::::::At the very least, are we going live with "No Name" being the name for this Keyblade?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:55, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
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| Soooo...whatever happened to this getting renamed? I mean, looking at the above it seemed like an agreement was reached... --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 23:54, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
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| ==True name==
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| So, in KH3 the MX's Keyblade is called Gazling Eye in both begnining and in the secret reports, confirming that as his official name. Even because when MoM say "no name" is not capitalized, so in that moment it didn't have a name. Luxu give it the Gazling Eye name (even because No Name is another Keyblade)--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.193.135|93.150.193.135]] 23:38, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :Actually, No Name was also capitalized in Back Cover. Regarding the Gazing Eye, the Master ''did'' specify that's not what it's called, and yet you are right in that Luxu continues to call it that. I would say we stick to the No Name...erm, name, but as like how we bold "Master Xehanort's Keyblade", we include something like "also referred to as The Gazing Eye." It's the best middle ground, and also most accurate way to go about it. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 09:04, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::But No Name is the name of another Keyblade too, and in KH3 we have at least 2 times where the Keyblade is called Gazing Eye, 3 counting in Back Over. Even if MoM say "that is not his true name, and is no name" (MoM say no name, without capitalized letters), then Luxu, yhea, call it with capitalization, but in KH3 call it Gazing Eye, and since now Xigbar (Luxu) have that Keyblade, and call it in that way, that mean he give that name to that Keyblade, so the main name should be the one used right now, not the one used in the KHX era (and probably used just for joke, not seriously)--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.195|93.150.192.195]] 10:09, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::Maybe the name confusion is why it got a new one in KH3, so I think we should follow through, move the page and keep the other names in the opening paragraph like it's done now. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 17:36, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::I disagree, but I won't make a huge fuss over it. I think it's fine the way it is right now. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 23:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :Any other opinions? Since Luxu will give the Keyblade one of the Union leaders in KHUX we might have a fourth name in the upcoming months. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 00:26, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::No Name is the name of another Keyblade, sure -- one that is intimately linked to this one.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
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| :::No Name is given as a name in Back Cover, but "Gazing Eye" seems to be the one Luxu eventually settled on. Let's go with that.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::I know the situation concerning "No Name" and "Gazing Eye" is unclear - mostly in part because Luxu calls it the Gazing Eye in both KHX:BC and the secret reports in KHIII, but now according to KHIII Ultimania translations there is apparently a third option: "Scapegoat" ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 19:08, 1 March 2019 (UTC))
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| :::::Nomura are trolling us--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.173|93.150.192.173]] 19:12, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::::No, "Scapegoat" was a misunderstanding. [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 02:58, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
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| Now this is starting to become some ol' bullshit. Apparently, there's now a FOURTH NAME for this stupid thing... "Goat of Atonement", [[https://www.kh13.com/news/spoilers-kingdom-hearts-iii-ultimania-gives-more-insight-into-the-secret-reports-r2957/ according to KH13]]. I'm 99% certain this is just the result of yet another crappy KH13 translation....but if someone here could definitively verify, that'd be swell. .....I hate this goddamn keyblade. :< --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 14:50, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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| :[https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/axzla2/correction_on_secret_report_12_scapegoat_is_not/ According to Kryten], it's not called Goat of Atonement. So KH13 and whoever translated it first, translated it in the wrong context. The in-game localisation is the correct one. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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| ::Thank god for that lol. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 16:11, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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| :::For posterity, the [https://twitter.com/lunesacree/status/1103296401117601792 translator herself also acknowledged this].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:32, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::Aaaaaahhhh... So lune translated it... I.....should really just stick with KHInsider translations from now on. X_X Apologies for raising a ruckus over a bunch of nothing. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 19:16, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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| :::::My guess is that Luxu keeps calling it that way by preferences regarding that name, or even because he wants to keep that name for it, for the same reason of preferences, but he isn't the very first wielder of this keyblade isn't he? Isn't the one who forges a Keyblade who gives the name to said Keyblade? Or was he like "do whatever you want with its name"? {{User:Braviaggron/Sig}} 11:04, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
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| MoM actually say "it's no name" not "it's No Name", so MoM actually say that Keyblade don't have a name, Luxu then give it the name of "Gazing Eye" thing that he say in the KH3 report and Xehanort too know this, since in the intro he too call the Keyblade in that way, and No Name Keyblade is the BbS Keyblade, not this one.--[[Special:Contributions/93.41.38.64|93.41.38.64]] 15:47, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
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| :::And then Luxu immediately calls it No Name.
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| :::Also, it's kind of self evident that the BbS Keyblade is linked to this one.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:42, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
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| ::::And in KH3 Luxu call it "Gazing Eye", after that moment, so he renamed it, and that make more sense, since No Name is another Keyblade--[[Special:Contributions/93.41.38.64|93.41.38.64]] 16:23, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
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| :::::And it doesn't matter that he renamed it. The first name is still valid.
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| :::::As I said previously, the BbS Keyblade is directly linked to the goat blade. Xehanort directly merges them. Luxu using "No Name" in katakana is not an accident.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
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| == Article name ==
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| Especially if we're not merging this with the related KHBBS blade, I support moving this article to "Gazing Eye", as
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| #It is specifically the most recent name given for the blade.
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| #It is the name given by Luxu, who can be trusted to have the best knowledge of the blade.
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| #It is a name that gives more info as to the nature of the blade.
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| #It cleans up a lot of technical issues with having two No Name Keyblades.
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| {{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:14, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
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| *Almost a year later, I'm bumping this. Either yes or no, a decision should be made. {{User:Chainoffire/sig}} 04:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
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| **I'mma vote no. The Master pretty explicitly says Gazing Eye isn't what it's called, followed immediately by Luxu "christening" it the No Name. When read in context, all subsequent mentions of the Gazing Eye refer to the eye inside the keyblade, and not the keyblade itself. That's my hot take anyway. --[[User:Samoa Joe|Samoa Joe]] ([[User talk:Samoa Joe|talk]]) 06:30, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
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| The Master say the Keyblade have LITERALLY no name, Luxu call it as The Gazing Eye, and is the name Luxu use for the Keyblade (since you can read him call it in that way in the Secret Reports) and with the pass of the centuries, even others know the Keyblade with that name, Xehanort in Scala call it as "Gazing Eye" too. Leave it as "No Name" is dumb (even because that is another Keyblade), and give to people a lot of missinformations. If the game say the Keyblade NOW have the name "Gazing Eye" is that, that mean is that.[[Special:Contributions/93.32.14.64|93.32.14.64]] 10:04, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
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