Editing Talk:Maleficent's Goon

Are these listed strictly as the title implies, or should we change it to the Disney Title, "Maleficent's Goons"? - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 00:23, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

== Article Title ==

{{EO|time=22:18, April 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=We're referring to more than one character/enemy. Shouldn't this be changed to "Maleficent's Lackeys?"}}
{{Disneyvillainman|text=I agree.}}
{{DTN|time=03:28, April 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=The translated titles of the enemies are Maleficent's Lackey (Arrow), Maleficent's Lackey (Mace), and Maleficent's Lackey (Spear). They all retain the same basic name from their Japanese titles, though they are not the exact same. I can see why to move it, because they are similar, and why not to, because they are different enemies in the game and Ultimania that are merged merely to prevent three short articles when we can have one, filled-out joint article.}}
{{Disneyvillainman|text=But the fact that there is more than one lackey means that the title needs to be plural. We don't call Barbossa's pirates Undead Pirate, we call them Undead Pirates because there is more than one.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Agreed. When combining multiple subjects into one article, the title can be modified to reflect the merge.}}

== Article Type : Character vs. Enemy ==

{{EO|time=16:24, May 2, 2010 (UTC)|text=While these could stand as enemies with an enemy infobox similar to what we do for bosses and creatures like the Heartless, I'd like to point out the [[Undead Pirates]]. They are in a case similar to the lackeys, and changes should be made once we agree on them to remain consistent.}}

==Decision==
{{User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate2
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|sig=''Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information.  The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!!''
|time=''If there was a box, what would be inside of it?  Well, since there is no box... WhatBox!!!'' 
|text='''Hey- part of this question has already been brought up here once, but it needs to be decided on.  Many Unreg. con.'s seem to change the word "lackey" to goon wherever it appears.  So, the question is: Which should it be, Goons, or Lackeys?  We have to choose one, or else we will seem inconsistent.  If you wish to view the original argument, please look [[http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:BebopKate#Lock|here]], under the section "Lock".  Thank you.'''}}
{{DTN|time=01:49, May 12, 2010 (UTC)|text=The translations in the ''Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Ultimania'' are "Maleficent's Lackey (Arrow)" "Maleficent's Lackey (Spear)", and "Maleficent's Lackey (Mace)".}}
{{Maggosh|nathan=The official English name is "Maleficent's goons".}}
{{UnknownChaser|time=Time? I'm a genius, I don't need to know the time, time need to know ME!
|think=Well I like "Goon" better, but in the NA guide book, there listed as '''"Maleficent's Henchman"''', but then again the guide itself is full of errors and whatnot *cough* ''Vanitas 's Lingering Spirit'' *cough* >.> 
}}

== FRIKKIN ENEMIES ==

So why the frakk do these guys still not have enemy infoboxes or, (because apparently we need them,) separate enemy pages?

Same with the Undead Pirates. And the only reason why the Card Soldiers have a place for ''their'' infoboxes is because we grouped them together onto the Queen of Hearts boss article, which may or may not be appropriate.

It can't be because no one's got the stats, but why do we even ''need'' a separate page?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 05:32, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
:Pro'ly 'cause they aren't mentioned in the Bradygames guide, meaning someone with access to the Ultimania scans has to do it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:32, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

::Alright, I can accept that, but what about the pirates?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 16:34, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
:Those should be given pages, or merged, yeah.
:Hmm, we should go through and figure out all the non-monster enemies or things with HP there are. Off the top of my head:
;BbS:
*Blasters
*Orbs of Light
*Trees
*Dwarves
*Inanimate objects? (do those rock walls in Neverland have HP?)
;KH2
*Rock walls
*Dead souls

etc.

::I feel like the rocks in BBS didn't have HP, but I'll check.
::Also, do you know what the deal is with Mimic Master's copies?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 18:41, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
:Oh god. Yeah, they have separate stats in page and replica form. Arg. I think the Ultimania lists the stats.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:32, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

== To be referenced... somewhere ==

Like the Undead Pirates, these guys uniquely react to Fire, Thunder, and (I assume) Blizzard magic. As far as I've seen, Fire and Thunder make them run around wildly with flames and static bolts, respectively.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 22:28, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:I can back up this claim, but I haven't tried Blizzard. Should we mention it in the strategy section? {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 14:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

== Story section ==

I can't remember if the goons appear in any cutscenes or not, can anyone check? If they do appear, they should get a story section. Whether they're actually important to the events that take place isn't really a factor here. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 14:34, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
::I think they do appear, though I'm not sure whether "When __________ happens, the goons ________" would suffice here. The idea of a story section is to list important plot points in which a subject is involved, rather than make note of its every single appearance. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 20:06, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
:::I disagree. I think the story section should note when characters appear, like [[Honey Bee]] for example. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Normally, I'd agree as well. But see Kryten's comments on [[Foreteller]], particularly in the edit history. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 23:34, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::Those comments are more pointed to the KHX synopses, which were using several paragraphs to describe short, half-minute scenes. That's over the top. However, every character ''should'' have a plot section -- that's what makes them a character. If there's not much to say, that's fine, but the point is more to make sure we're not going ''overboard'', and turning every page into a novel. It could very well be that the entire plot section for the goons would be "Ventus and Aqua encounter them as they explore." -- that would be proportionate and reasonable.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 03:40, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

== Axe vs. Spear ==

As you can read above, the translations of the goon with the axe or halberd is "Spear" in the BBS Ultimania. In KHUX though the power-type enemy is actually called "Axe", "マレフィセントの手下(斧)" while the speed-type is called "Spear", "マレフィセントの手下(槍)", which I named "Shield" to avoid confusion.

Still, the game is more canon than the Ultimania, isn't it, so we should rename the enemies according to KHUX, right? Also, there is another goon boss with Malificent's raven which is magic-type that is called "マレフィセントの手下たち". I don't know how to translate that. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:00, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, I think we should use the names from KHUX, since it's more recent. We could wait for the English localization, but that'll take a couple of months. Maybe that name could be translated as "Maleficent's goons", like Darkling and Darklings or Fluttering and Flutterings. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 09:36, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


I'll put this here for reference: KHMOM Collector's Cards give English names based on the Ultimania, being "Maleficent's Goon (Mace)", "Maleficent's Goon (Spear)", and "Maleficent's Goon (Bow)". What KHMOM refers to as the "Spear" goon is what KHUX calls the "Axe" goon, while the one that actually wields a spear remains a KHUX exclusive. —<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:110%>[[User:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">Aid</span>]][[User talk:Aid1043|<span style="color:#9932CC">1043</span>]]</span> 00:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)