Editing Forum:Trailer reliability

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==Old discussion==
=== NEW D-LINK!!!!! ===

I just saw the Gamescon trailer and theres a new D-Link!!! And it's PETE!!--[[User:P456|P456]] 18:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a link to the trailer?--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 22:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQkA3_FIRF0 - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] 22:21, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind I just saw it--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 22:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ether that or it could be only in the European release. Nomura didn't mention a new D-link in the north american release.[[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{WB|VenArmor=Actually it is a European Trailer. The GameCon 2010 is happening in Europe and if that's not true, look the the end of the trailer saying "September 10, 2010". It the European Release Date.}}

Then the D-link is not included in the north american release.[[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

You don't know that. Why would there be two different English releases?  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 01:19, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

{{WB|Vanitas= Only time will tell as always.}}


Man, This really confusing![[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{WB|Vanitas=I know!}}

{{NeutraVega|Roflz.  "European only."  Now THIS is a whole new level of retarded.......}}

{{LapisScarab|time=01:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)|text=When has there ever been a different version for the US and European releases? They're both the English version of the game.}}

{{NeutraVega|Exactly.  It's time ya'll stop being stupid, and pull those heads out of those assholes.  Info's completely legit, so get your asses moving.  Edit it in.}}

WOAH WOAH WOAH! Lets slow down for a minute. Lets calmly think 1st.[[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{WB|Vanitas=I agree. You can't really be certain. If what LS said is true, why would Nomura release two English versions? As always, we should wait until both have been released and see if their the same or not.}}

{{NeutraVega|Lol, why bother "thinking" when you're lacking the obvious brain cells required for the task?}}

That's right and besides we don't even know who get the D-link. All we see is aqua using it.[[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{LapisScarab|time=02:20, August 19, 2010 (UTC)|text=Neutra, you don't need to be an ass to make a point. Be civil. @WB: What are you talking about? There's just one English version of the game.}}

{{WB|Ven=*Edgeshadow: My thoughts exactly!<br>*LS: One or two, we can't be certain about it. US and Europe may have some differences or maybe not. We need more information. And to get that, we'll have to wait.}}
::Trailers are not at all reliable, Organization XIII at the Great Crest, Disney Castle in KH1, etc. Less than a freaking month, guys, just wait until you can edit responsibly instead of making more messes.02:34, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


AHHH COME ON! We are not even sure![[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{NeutraVega|Lol, yep.  This is doubtless the pinnacle of human fucktardation.}}


Wash your mouth MAN![[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{NeutraVega|Lol, know what's funny here?  Didn't we all change the Command Style information based on gameplay and trailer footage?  As I correctly recall, per usual, Speed Rave was changed to Fever Pitch in European gameplay footage.  Funny, how no one "thought" about that one.  Oh, wait. I know!  There's TWO versions!  So, is it safe to assume that the American version will be called "Pic de Fievre"?  Well, golly gosh darn!  Now it all MAKES SENSE!}}
:I allowed that one to be changed because that article is already an unsourced mess, and since I don't have the time myself to reformat it, there's no  point in trying to keep it to any such standard until the game is dubbed. Closing the door after the fox got in, and all that.
:However, this article is accurate, as is the Deck Commands one, and there is ''absolutely no benefit'' in letting it get **cked all to hell by combing trailers for names that may not even stay the same.
:Also also, there is no logic in lumping us as one multi-headed beast that always thinks the same.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 16:50, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

{{NeutraVega|Oh, you know me.  You know I never lump people together.  I always make it a special point to keep the idiots seperate from the jackasses. :)  I'm a very neat, and organized...more like, a very finicky guy.  A finicky genius.}}

{{OHTSC|text=Nuetra, you may be intelligent, but you sound so ignorant on here. Apparently you have a small vocabulary, or you don't know how to use the one you have now without profanity.}}


WOAH WOAH WOAH! Slow down for a minute. We'll just wait to be sure. Just wait for the release. OK. Good![[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{Maggosh|flint=''Trailers are not at all reliable, Organization XIII at the Great Crest, Disney Castle in KH1, etc.''

Yeah, but there's only one problem; those were in trailers released a year or more before the actual game, while it was still in development. BbS has been released in Japan, and right now, it's almost two weeks before its NA and EU releases; why put something in like a new D-Link in the trailer, so close to the release of the game, not to have it in the final product?}}

{{NeutraVega|Oh wow, wouldya lookie at that.  A Pete D-Link in the latest NA trailer on the official site.  You know, every time, every time, so far when I had to make a scene on here, I always ended up right...  I always ended up more or less humiliating you all.  Isn't it about time that stopped?   Ain't it about time you all, you know, paid attention to the only fucker who knows what he's talking about?}}

{{LapisScarab|time=12:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)|text=Neutra, get over yourself. You weren't the only one who thought this was legit. That wasn't the point. The point was that trailers alone aren't reliable.}}
{{KrytenKoro|This is probably just feeding the troll, but NV, weren't you absolutely convinced that "complete being" was a canon term, and swore up and down that sources could easily be found? How's that turning out for you?


maggosh: I don't know, but we also have just over two weeks until we can do this whole thing with 100% reliability, and it's really just easier to do it then. For example, we have no idea what the Pete D-Link would even do, and we don't have a good picture, so how would we even cover it here?}}

{{maggosh|flint=Well, aside from the fact that you can drive his car, nothing. You've got a point.}}

{{NeutraVega|Kryten, just to shut your sorry ass up, once again, I'll attempt to be reasonable and logical here regarding your retarded "somebody" terminology.  1-When was the first letter of "somebody" ever capitalized, such as Heartless, Nobody, or Unversed?  2-When was a singular, objective noun used in conjunction with "somebody", such as "the somebody", or "those somebodies."  "A somebody" doesn't count since it's subjective....  3-When was "somebody" ever referred to in a plural sense, such as once again, "those somebodies", similar to "Agh!  Nobodies!  NOOOO!"  Exactly.  Shut the fuck up.  If you had half a brain, or a tenth of any real knowledge of the English language, you'd know that you are dead wrong.  But you know what, keep thinking that you're right.  Cause the dumber you look, the funnier it is for me, as well as...well, pretty much anyone else out there.

Ya'll are just too fucking stubborn and proud to accept the fact that I have ''never'' been wrong before.  '''NEVER'''.  And every fucking time, you end up humiliating yourselves.  Get over yourselves, and listen to someone for once in your pathetic lives.}}
{{KrytenKoro|1) In CoM and Days, several times, used in conjunction with "Nobody", which had a similar, non-katakana version in that, and I've already provided the quotes and their original Japanese versions. 2) I never said that the term was 100% canon. I said that ''you'' were claiming that "complete being" was, and so far you haven't gotten off your lazy ass to provide a source, whereas we've done multiple interview-trawls to find whatever we can (Ex: "Other", "Human", "Somebody") 3) Again, in CoM. "Nobodies can't be Somebodies".

Seriously, Neutra, if you can't be civil, at least be, you know, right about what you're shouting. (Relevant history lesson - part of the purpose of politeness and civility is so that, if people ARE found to be wrong, they don't look like such an ass, and wouldn't get their head cut off by the nobility.) People who are both loud ''and'' hilariously wrong are just pathetic.}}

{{NeutraVega|I am right, but you're just too fucking stupid to look past an absurdly obvious misinterpretation of a metaphor on your part.  Like I said, I insist that you insist on your usage.  The more of a dumbfuck you are, the more I'll enjoy my chocolate cheesecake.  Unfortunately, your sheer stupidity is the only necessity required to "feed this troll."}}

{{One-Winged Angel|time=12:55 August 21, 2010|text=Take this shit to the '''USER''' talk pages. This talk page is for the '''DISCUSSION''' of the '''ARTICLE''', last time I checked was '''D-Link''' so take your petty argument (AKA Shit) to, I say again, THE '''USER''' TALK PAGES!!!}}
{{KrytenKoro|Again, Neutra, I ''never'' said that "Somebody" was the official term. I said it was the closest to canon that we had. You are the only one that is claiming that a term is completely canon.}}



WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! SLOW DOWN! Or better yet COOL DOWN! One-Winged Angle is right. Put you petty argument (AKA Shit) in the User Talk page PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!????????? IT STARTING TO GET ANNOYING. IT PRACTICALLY OUT OF THE TOPIC!?![[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]

{{NeutraVega|Well, in that case Kryten, that makes you hypocrite of the fucking century.  You refuse to edit in legit facts because "trailers aren't substantial enough" or whatever, but insist on "closest terms", aka bullshit?  Lulz}}

The Logic behind not including this is flawed at it's core. Let me list the reasons why it's a safe bet<br>
1. The game comes out in ~2 weeks. The trailer isn't going to include beta elements at this stage<br>
2. The Japanese trailer didn't have this. They wouldn't inculde something from beta and have it translated into english (Note aqua's command menu is in english, not japanese. If this was a beta element it wouldn't be translated.<br>
3. They wouldn't add something to the English trailer, that was otherwise identical to the Japanese one, unless it was a new feature (Another example is the dude in the Org. XIII cloak. We know that's a bonus boss and was added for the English Release.) [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 04:17, August 24, 2010 (UTC)


Forget it man his too STUBBORN to listen to resons! STUBBORN MULE!!!!!!!???!!!!
:I would prefer we keep this civil. So please no name calling. That said I am stubborn as well so this could last awhile <.<; [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 04:27, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
::All three of your reasons are the same reason, and are all assumptions with no evidence. "The game comes out in just over two weeks" is not an assumption. You do realize that, just the FACT that they are changing things between releases means, "Yes, they ARE changing things between releases".
::NV - you are so deep in denial that it is hilarious. Yes, using repeated terms with a clear context from several games is so much less reasonable than a split-second shot from a trailer in an unreleased game. Of course you're right, I was so blind.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 23:50, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{WB|Vanitas=Are you all done with this nonsense!? All Edgeshadow and I wanted was to wait for new info instead of putting unclear ones in the article. Now people please decide! Or do you want this nonsense to continue! Sheees!!}}


so umm from tha new video it looks like pete is a d-link too just wonderin if u plan on addin him in tha mix
--[[User:Chaosxterra09|Chaosxterra09]] 15:17, August 25, 2010 (UTC)Chaosxterra09

{{Xabryn|text=This is what this discussion is all about but I don't think we should put it in the article yet since they can end changing things again}}

{{ZexionFan321|time=23:18, August 25, 2010 (UTC)|lexaeus=It was in the trailer and it's way too close to the release date so they would use things that will be in the game.}}

And that pretty much sums up both arguments. One side says not becasue they insist that no trailer can be trusted 100# and the other side says that a trailer this close is safe to trust. I agree with the latter obviously. [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 02:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

A wiki is not the same as a newspaper. We don't need to have information first, we need correct, verifiable information. Is it ''really'' that hard to wait two weeks?I think not.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:24, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
:A bit yes. If we can't be consistent on what we can and cannot take from trailers we shouldn't take anything. IE: Revert Keyblade Glider to Rider ETC. Notice how backwards and hypocritical the arguments seem if you extend it to everything on the wiki, not just this one thing? [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 02:26, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Valid point, I hadn't noticed that that was changed.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:28, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
:You can always open a forum thread to discuss the policy. '''<font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="background:#3300CC">[[User:Bluerfn|<span style="color:white"><sup>BLUER</sup></span>]]</span>[[User talk:Bluerfn|<span style="color:#CC0011">一番</span>]]</font>''' 02:36, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

True so true.

=== Final Agrrement ===

Type here if you want to agree.

1) Sign your posts. 2) What are you talking about?{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:43, August 26, 2010 (UTC)



<poll>
Do we agree that Pate is a D-link?
Yes absolutly!!!!
Maybe.
NO!!!!!
I don't know.
</poll>

You're missing the point. This is about whether we should use the trailers as sources or not. Thinking about it more, I think we should use them for story elements, which do not often change, but not for game mechanics, which often do. That's just my opinion, and we should move this to a forum. I'll do that.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}02:52, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Its relly getting everyone confused in many ways and that the truth.

==New discussion==
{{LapisScarab|time=03:00, August 26, 2010 (UTC)|skinny=Okay, we need to decide on the wiki's policy on using trailers, as you all can see from the discussions above. Here's where I stand: We should use trailers for storyline points (cutscenes, maybe for the worlds the caracters vist), but not for the game mechanics (D-links, name changes). This is because game mechanics tend to change during development, but storyline points do not. 

Please keep the discussion civil.}}

Please stop doing that. I said ''discussion'', not poll. A poll should be used if everything is in a deadlock and the discussion has come to an end. The discussion got side-tracked before, and now's  the time to argue your point civilly. Wait on the poll for a bit.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:06, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

OK. should i erase the poll?

For now. If we can't reach a decision in, let's say 1 week, we'll put the poll up again, wait for another week, and go by that. And ''sign you comments''.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:11, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


Thats an erase.Right?

{{ZexionFan321|time=04:05, August 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=We should use trailers for storyline points and if the trailer is close enough then we use it for mechanics.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=04:09, August 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Close enough to what?}}
Release date I assume. At this point nothing is likely to change between this final trailer and the game. Also that argument was not meant to be in favor of reverting the Glider change. It was meant to add weight to the support to adding Pete. IT was sarcasm. [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400]] 04:15, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
{{LapisScarab|time=04:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=I caught that it was sarcasm, but I didn't really care. We should try and go by the policy first. If you find that something isn't following the policy, instead of insisting that everything else change, just fix the error. Saying "You changed one thing based on the trailer, therefore you must change everything based on the trailer" is just foolish logic. It was just a slip up, albeit one I appreciate you pointed out.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Yeah. You picked a REALLY bad example for an argument from absurdity.

Also, has ANYONE here done anything to explain or give an example for why there's no likelihood of changes? I mean, people HAVE heard of DLC, right? Most games don't even stop changing AFTER they were released.}}

Are you done arguing yet??[[User:Edgeshadow|Edgeshadow]]
{{TNE|time=15:03, September 1, 2010 (UTC)|sadtext=Thank you, Edgeshadow. This is one of the reasons why I hesitated to comment on this post in the first place.}}

{{KrytenKoro|We don't use polls to decide whether sources are reliable.}}
{{TNE|time=00:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=That being the case, then every single person should state his two cents in his talk bubble.

As for Pete being a D-Link, much of the info has been leaked out already, and I'm actually positive about it. Also, justin.tv is going to feature the live playthrough before the game is even released, and I'm going to be considerably spoilt by *coughcoughUnbirthcough*.}}

This is why we don't accept info from trailers, and why you guys should never have even suggested we do:
{{#widget:YouTube|id=fkwEsMwhKgM}}
[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 19:15, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{Maggosh|YMX=Like I said above; "those were in trailers released a year or more before the actual game, while it was still in development."}}
{{KrytenKoro|That's true, but then BBSNA brought back some of the deleted scenes (like Terra against the Magic Mirror). The problem is, how are we to clearly know where the cutoff is?}}
{{TNE|time=06:16, September 25, 2010 (UTC)|text=The closer it is to the release date, the more reliable it is. Take the betas for KH1 and KH2 for instance. They ultimately couldn't be relied on ; only the later trailers could.}}
@@ Line 163: / Line 163: @@
 Thats an erase.Right?
-:Oh, you're bringing up Keyblade Glider: We absolutely should change it back. The original name was based on the official materials in the Ultimania, while the "new name" is based on a screenshot from the Command Board minigame. That is exactly the kind of reasoning that gets used if we jump on trailers like a lonely man at a cheerleading convention. It may very well be correct, but the point remains, it is not reliable - and when we have TWO FRICKING WEEKS to wait, there is absolutely no justification for jumping the gun. We are not a news site, we never will be. We are an ENYCLOPEDIA, devoted to providing IN DEPTH, VERIFIED info, and using trailers in this manner goes against that in every way.
-:Honestly, I would hesitate to use trailers for story info, either. Tons of story info was changed before BBS was released in Japan, and Nomura explicitly said that he would be changing it again for its North American release. Every time we have tried to post straight-up story claims before the game was released, we ended up with several errors. At best, AT BEST, we should be able to present info that has appeared in the promotional articles and released interviews, because the producers are standing behind that info as finalized.
-:However, for the English trailers, story info should be okay, assuming that the quotes won't change further. We've already gotten the Japanese game, and any quotes are basically translations, rather than truly new info.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:11, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 {{ZexionFan321|time=04:05, August 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=We should use trailers for storyline points and if the trailer is close enough then we use it for mechanics.}}