Forum:Wikia overhaul?

Forums: Index > The World that Never was > Wikia overhaul?

maggosh - I had been told the darkness would devour me, but what terrors could it possibly hold, so long as I found the strength to control it?
TALK - This world is just too small.

I'd rather we skip the formalities. Well, after I made an edit to the Bleach wiki for the first time in months, I was directed to this blog. Apparently Wikia's going to have an overhaul concerning changes, aesthetically and software-side, by the end of the year; one of which includes putting the name of the user who uploaded a picture in its caption. Which, in my opinion, is a bad idea. There's more here, here, and here. Just thought I should post this here so we could discuss what goes on. Merci beaucoup.

Discussion

Uxie Lover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! ^{— 04:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)}

I got that when I first edited other wikis. I am sick of it, y'know!

KrytenKoro - And when you see me standing there, you'll know you've got a friend with a rock, I mean a big-ass rock.
TALK -

Every change they are listing pisses me off. Whatever they implement, I'm going to ask that we can opt out of.

LapisScarab - You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice?
TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had?

Ugh, really? Again? Have we ever used any of the little individual "improvements" Wikia has created (RTE comes to mind)? Why do they keep trying to "improve" a system that works fine? Somehow I doubt that there was an overwhelming demand for this, but I equally doubt that they will listen to the complaints. Not much I can add that hasn't already been said in those comments you showed us, maggosh. Lia Schiffer sums it up well.

Uxie Lover1994 Tiempo de morder de nuevo con el poder! El tema de hoy: su sorpresa! ^{— 09:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)}

One of these days, Wikia will freeze after too much upgrades. They should just stop for now. y'know. Plus, the staff will just ignore things unless they are major (eg: bad freezes, vandals who trash more than three wikis etc).

17master - Hey, guys, check out my new camera!
TALK - Oh wait, this isn't a camera... - 09:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I got the news from Bleach Wikia too. I got a slow internet connection so it can be a nuisance sometimes, I just hope the upgrades don't make it worse for us, slow-internet-connection-users.

KrytenKoro - This is the song that runs under the credits; these are the credits, so this is where it goes. 'has nothing to do with the movie so we'll say, "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey hey hey hey!"
TALK -

I took a look at the thing in action on the reddead and muppet wikis:

The text of the article is compressed down to about 50% of its former width, before adding in images. It is very difficult to read. When you add in a normal-sized image (~250px), the text is confined in a column of less than 1/6 of the page's width.
The image credits are both obnoxious, due to immature usernames, and extend the height of the images, disrupting any previous flow.
The "last edited by" at the top of the page makes it look even more like a prototype wiki, rather than a polished, mature one. I've literally only seen crap like this on primitive wiki's.
It looks like they've increased the spacing between lines from 1x to at least 1.5x, if not 2x.
The pages now have a window for all images on the wiki, which seems inane. If I'm reading about Paopu Fruit, it is purely disruptive to have a 1/8 of my screen showing images of the Mysterious Figure or Monstro.
They have a box at the bottom for what looks like will be Featured Wiki's.
They now place the two most common categories at the top of the page. We have a lot of pages with maintenance categories, meaning they will almost always be those top two, and I'm sorry, but we're not going to abandon our tracking of problems for this.

I honestly cannot find anything positive coming out of this. And so here's my suggestion:

Abandon wikia.

When the furor over ads first started, the transformers wiki, tfwiki.net, took a stance against both the utter disruption of their layouts for non-logged users, against wikia's lack of vetting for ads, which resulted in ads for let's call them "pleasure toys" on a wiki about children's toys, and on principle, against wikia's complete lack of "giving a shit" to the opinions of their unpaid workforce. They left wikia, kept their own layouts while finding ads that were actually relevant to their wiki, and have done nothing but succeed. We didn't follow them, but then, the layouts were only disrupted on the non-logged pages, and we just took that lump. Now wikia is demonstrating that they absolutely don't give a hoot about presenting encyclopedic content. We can either leave, or have a wiki that looks and will always look like a pile of shit.

Now, tfwiki was one of the biggest wiki's. They had even more editors than we do, and they were absolutely dedicated to their wiki. They are literally the best example of what a wiki should be, in terms of both content and culture. There is no guarantee that we could do this and succeed - it would take huge amounts of work, and honestly, our staff is dropping off like flies. But if wikia is unwilling to make this change optional, it's something we seriously need to consider.

17master - Hey, guys, check out my new camera!
TALK - Oh wait, this isn't a camera... - 14:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Does that mean.... we're gonna make a new KHWiki... right from the start?

I agree that the changes are jokes, but other wikia doesn't like it either so maybe they'll get a lot of complaints and decided to stop the new upgrades.

Although, starting a new wiki doesn't seem so bad... But getting some editors for our wiki isn't easy, the reason tfwiki and bulbapedia have a lot of editors is because they were popular since, like, 19-ish? And Kingdom Hearts just started on 2002. Hey, I'm not saying we can't, but it's just gonna be hard to get a bunch of active, new, editors.

But, all-in-all, I'll stick to our community, whether we're moving to wiki or stay here.

}

KrytenKoro - Ṱ͐͒H̫̾̃E͈͔͍͔̾̋ͦ̕ ͇̜͖͉̘̬͙̃̇̊͜N͙͉̑̓̌ͤĬ̸͇̖͈͒̃G̮̠̟͖̝̩ͧ͊̈́H̽͌̀T͚̹̝̐ͬ̂̔̄ ̿̈́̊̃ͦ͆͑A̘̝̖ͪͯ́̀ͣ̿̃͝I̟͑ͬR̡͎̩̚ ̠̪̈́̑̏̏̋C̯̲ͩ́͐͒͂ͪ͜Ä͍̜̣̼̹́͌̋̀͒͂ͅN̅͐̆ͪ̓̋ͩ ̣ͮͧͧ͌Ả̼̤̜̫̩̜̾̕L͓͓̺̤̘̠̀W̷̭̯̼͗͂ͦ̾͒A̘͓̰̠͉͇̬Y̵̒ͧͩ̇ͅS ̦̻̯̟̮̭̟̓̒͑͋C̮̱͔͔̖̯ͦͧͨ͋̑A̤ͩ̉̅ͪR̞͉̣̦̪̜̮͛̉̎̀ͩ̍̇R̢̥̳̝̟̺̣̈Y͗͋̅͏͇̳̪͎̺ ̭͈͍̝̣͍̒̎̑͘O̖̗͇̲̲̖͊̈́̿ͨ͑ͅN̩̰͉͍͍͖͙E̩̹̣̰̣͓̖̽̊͡ ̲̮͔̯̦̋̿ͧͫ̓ͅM͇̌͌̔́O̱̫̯̬̤̗̲͛R̙̽Ȅ̥̦̫̺͙̩̒ͯͭ́ ̖̫̯͉̱ͣͯͩ͊͐͆ͫS̰̿̊̑̋ͩ̇ͅC̘̣̜͍̆̆ͧ͜R̞̾͐̋̆̚Ë̡͇̓A̙͈M̡̤̙̈
TALK -

Oh got, no. We just transfer everything - articles, images, even the user pages and forums. The only work most editors would have to do is to change their bookmarks and reapply for an account at the new location. Of course, if you wanted to help with the transfer and with the selection of more appropriate ads, more power to you.

KrytenKoro - You should have figured out whether bodies age without their hearts, Nomura.
TALK -

By the way, if you guys decide not to move in the end, we need to use this:

[1]

Posted four pleas to Wikia, three under my name and one under KHWiki's name. Now, I'm only doing this with the hopes that they'd listen, but in the event they don't, I have a few questions :

We'll be hosting it on an external server. Don't we have to pay for it ? Where would we find one and how ?

How would we develop the page from scratch until we achieve wiki format ?

What happens to the KH-related wikis under our umbrella - KHFR and KHES ?

But I've learned that deep down, there's a light that never goes out! • Trois Nyx Étienne — 15:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?"
TALK -

I've asked the tfwiki guys for a link to their discussion, because I can't find it, but basically, we'd set up an ads account with project wonderful or similar, and we would work to have targeted ads. The main problem with this is that we'd need more stuff about kingdom hearts or final fantasy to want to place ads here - webcomics, toys, etc. Transformers wiki had an easier time of that because its franchise is so long running.

For the wiki format - honestly, we'd need some coding experts to help, but it's not going to be simple html. We will still be a wiki, and have a wiki server, it will just be something like "khwiki.net" or similar. All links and coding would work the same - we would basically just straight up copy everything we have to another server, that's all.

Also - I've looked into some more, and some people are talking about it being possible to manipulate your css so that it shows the old version, or at least eliminates some of the massive problems. However, wikia is starting to say that "not only is it against the ToU to remove ads (which we knew, obviously), but also any of our nifty little features aren't they so darling". Basically, they will only allow us to modify our personal css's, not the wiki's.

And I say f'em. That doesn't make any legal sense, and they aren't providing us a service that we aren't giving back a hundred-fold, so it's not like they are the benefactors here anyway. If we decide to stay here, we use our layout - if they throw a fit, we can throw one right back.

That will probably result in our elimination, or at least the banning of whatever knucklehead is behind the scheme, but it is still an option.

KrytenKoro - Most bears were content to live their lives, mauling and eating one, maybe two humans at most. "Mass-murder," as the bears always said, "is for the sharks." But not Barry. Barry was different. He knew that one day, he would kill ALL of the humans. This is the inspiring, tear-jerking story of one bear and the dream he dared to dream.
TALK -

For all mechanical purposes, they aren't under our umbrella. If they decide to stay, that's their decision, if they decide to come with us, I'm sure we can figure something out. After all, whatever targeted ads we could find would certainly apply to their readers as well.

I'm speaking for KHFR and we're coming with KHW ! Of course, in the event that Wikia decides to be... well, I don't know what to say about this anymore.

Why did the Keyblade choose me? I have to know. • Trois Nyx Étienne — 15:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - "Hurricane beats all housing or apartments. This sucker is a Cat-6!"
TALK -

Right. It's a lovely show of friendship, but if we decide to do this, and if you guys think it's a bad idea, there's absolutely no reason you would have to go down with the ship. I absolutely don't think it will fail, if we decide to do this, but just saying.

I'm aware of that. But just for all to see :

an Ankoù dit :
*j'ai lu
*et je continue d'espérer qu'ils vont laisser le choix
*ça nous épargnerait bien des peines
*même si certains trucs vont forcément changer
*moi j'ai pas vraiment envie d'en arriver à devoir déménager le wiki
            Stryion                dit :
*Moi non plus, mais au pire...... Je prefererais demenager plutot que de survivre avec les "ameliorations"
an Ankoù dit :
*certes

I read, and I continue hoping that they'll keep the option.
it'd take away a lot of pain from us, even if some things are bound to change. 
I don't really feel like having to leave the wiki.

Me neither, but worse comes to worst, I'd rather move than survive with these "improvements".

True.

Regardless of whether it's warranted or not for me to put this up, I'm pretty sure all of us would feel the same way back on the other side. If push comes to shove, we move.

Helping others always comes before asking others for help. • Trois Nyx Étienne — 15:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

17master - Hey, guys, check out my new camera!
TALK - Oh wait, this isn't a camera... - 15:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not good at coding, but if you guys need any help, I'll try to help the best I can

JFHavoc ^{Talk to Me!}— I once took an IQ test and got a score of over 9000.

_{You're all morons. — 16:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)}

I wouldn't be too happy about all the stuff they're doing or leaving wikia, but at this point I support any decisions you guys make.

EDIT: Just checked it out on one of the Beta Wikis..... this sucks.

D a n

- What's going on? Everything's black and white. ^{— 16:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)}

Ugh... I've always disliked the look of the Muppets, Twilight, and GLee wikis... What's the point of having almost half the space on-screen empty? I'm with you guys, move before giving over to these changes...

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person
TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

two rules with things that aren't broken: if it isn't broke,don't fix it, and and if it isn't broke DON"T BREAK IT!!!!

		Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 16:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)



		If the situation is really intolerable, I support moving, but I recommend we get a viable plan together. I find myself looking at the Homestar Runner Wiki[2], which I consider one of the highest quality and professional-looking fan-run wikis I've seen, especially outside of wikia. They have around 600 more articles than KHWiki. They have no ads, but have a fundraising drive a la Wikipedia. Something to consider, noting our relatively low article count.

KrytenKoro - "That's when we bumped into Hannity. Sean Hannity. See the thing about this dude is, at first he's fair, right? And you're like "Wow!" But then BOOM. The dude's balanced, too. And you're like, HOLY SHIT."
TALK -

I could definitely help out with some donations, but that's still a lot to ask, considering how young most of our reader-base is. I think targeted ads would be the optimum approach for this.

SC, it'll only happen if they're gonna make it an option. But from the look of those posts, they aren't. That's why we're flustered !

There are some things even the stars cannot tell me. • Trois Nyx Étienne — 19:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

KrytenKoro - This is the song that runs under the credits; these are the credits, so this is where it goes. 'has nothing to do with the movie so we'll say, "Hey! Hey! Hey hey hey hey hey hey!"
TALK -

SC, you've got to remember that this wiki isn't just for us. We have readers, and this reformat will make our articles, to a one, unreadable. Added to that is the fact that central wikia has said that it is against their rules for us to remove or modify any of these space-sucking add-ons (not just the ads, which is understandable), and you've got our wiki being unreadable to anyone without an account (at least 60% of our readership, if not 90%).

On the Digimon Wiki, I just had what I think was wikia stuff neutering the ToC bar that you have on the left - and they did it without any real knowledge of what we do there, reducing it to six total options out of almost forty, and removing links to the actual main content.

According to central wiki, your situation is purely temporary. This change will be mandatory across all wikis, and they are phasing out monaco completely. Monobook will remain, I think, but gee, there goes our site theme.

Central wikia's constant attitude is one deleterious to content, and focusing on becoming a magazine or advertising insert, rather than an encyclopedia. If the outcry against this won't pull their heads out their bums, then there's no reason to believe that the next revision won't be any less catastrophic.

Bluer says at 20:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm happy with my Monobook, thanks.

KrytenKoro - "It's always best when the other chap is willing to die for his beliefs; you both have the same goal in mind."
TALK -

We all like monobook, I think, but we're not allowed to use it as the default skin. Meaning that, depending on whether they keep monobook, we may be able to keep reading the articles, while visitors will not.

Plus, our background and wiki image is incompatible with monobook as it is, so we can either be compatible for one or the other.

Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test.

I have to say, th new wikia looks horrible. I'm with Blue: Monobook rocks.
I'm not sure what I think about abandoning wikia, but if the community wants it, then I won't complain.
-21:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

The Inexistent - Pitiful users, mindlessly collecting information. The rage of an edit releases this knowledge, and they all come together, to form: The Wiki!!!
TALK - And on the Wiki these words appear: "My name is The_Inexistent, user of users: Look upon my edits, ye Mighty, and despair!"

I'm late getting here, but, wow, did we just realize this was happening? They announced this like a month ago. Anyway, I protested it back then, and, since they refuse to make it optional, we are screwed

The Inexistent - All the world's a puzzle, and I the one who made it so...
TALK - EVIL has come... at last...

Oh, and I volunteer to go down with the ship... I have nothing to lose anyway...

The Inexistent - Fire rages in the streets...
TALK - And swallows everything it meets...

Wow, third message in a row... but, anyway, I know for sure that blix could figure out how to make it look wikiish if we would move...

Keyblade0 - ...And here you go, a cool keyblade.
TALK - You can't see my face, because Nomura didn't bother to create it yet. — 23:41, September 28, 2010

(What!?) People, people people, please let’s all

Calm Down.

Yeah, the new things SUCK, but we’ve been through worse, right? So, let’s all calm down and hope/pray that they’ll not go through with this.

The Inexistent - Cry Havoc, and let slip the Wikis of war!
TALK - I am become The_Inexistent, the destroyer of Wikis.

Don't you understand? It's happening no matter what. All I want is for it to be optional!

Keyblade0 - What!? They're suing me for using their weapons!?
TALK - But... I look so cool with them... — 00:09, September 29, 2010

What!?!?(again) Well, we’re just going to have to bear it. If not, then we can move. (and possibly lose some of he work/progress we worked so hard on getting)

JFHavoc ^{Talk to Me!}— I once took an IQ test and got a score of over 9000.

_{You're all morons. — 01:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)}

I actually don't think we've been through anything as bad as this, Keyblade. We wouldn't have to abandon Wikia if they weren't doing this. The brought it upon themselves. (And we still don't know for sure if we really are leaving).

@SilverCrono : The three skins are available now but they won't be available starting November. See this. NOW.

So since they are removing the option and not listening to us, our only option is to move. If this ship goes down, I shall go down with it.

But I've learned that deep down, there's a light that never goes out! • Trois Nyx Étienne — 09:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The Inexistent - All good wikis must come to an end, but all bad wikis can continue forever
TALK - Sad are only those wikians who understand

Well, here are all of the wikis lost to shoutwiki already [3]. If we would move, I wouldn't recommend shoutwiki, as it loads like crap...

		Neumannz — Looks like I'm gonna have to jump...! TALK — I work alone! Except when I work with Xion...which is all the time. — 15:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)



		Looks like they've gotten started. I already see the "added by" caption on images...

ShadowsTwilight - He's leaving you behind, and when you catch up, he'll be a different person
TALK - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i'm starting to see it too, and i must say...i don't like it

KingdomKeyDarkside - But then, when all hope had died, and the hour of doom seemed at hand...
TALK - a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.

~ KingdomKeyDarkside 01:28, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Before we just get up and leave, we should make sure that we have no other option. We should do as much as we can to try and either:

Support reversal of this crap.
OR Find some way to opt out of this change.

If we can't do either of those, we're screwed. There are tons of petitions on Wikia Central about this [4] <Like that. Support them as much as we can, and see if it does anything.

The Yoshiman 97 - "Mario! Is that really you?"
TALK - 19:15, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

I say move. Wikia won't really care what we say. ShoutWiki may load slowly, but at least it isn't making unnecessary changes. My opinion is move, but if you guys decide to stay, I'm all for it.

The Inexistent - All the world's a puzzle, and I the one who made it so...
TALK - EVIL has come... at last...

@KKD, they keep asking for feedback and everyone says no, but then they don't listen, and that means we can't opt out. I still think having my ~~useless hacker~~ friend figure out how to manipulate the CSS and HTML to get it to look the way it does now would be the best option.

Galexgan "Strength of Heart will carry you through the hardest of trials." ^{— 22:58, October 3, 2010 (UTC)}

Wow, I'm really really late to this but, I'm up for following the wiki if it moves. I don't want to stick with a wiki that's gonna constantly change it's layout for the worse over and over and over again causing mayhem and uproar EVERY time. On the topic of ads, Final Fantasy XIV is pretty awesome looking, watched the seven minute long video I got in my email from Square Members, it was epic is all I can say. Not sure how adds work and all, just assuming that we can get a FFXIV add to help and RE:Coded comes out soon-ish so there's another add. FF and KH appear to be extremely long running series so we should have plenty of adds from them, and if they aren't enough Disney is always advertising something. On the topic of layout, if we switched to become our own wiki or whatever and we had people great with HTML code we might not only be able to move and keep things the way we like it but actually improve the layout and other features to look and work alot smoother. EDIT: I also thought about it but because of the benfits that come with social comunication between members such as cameraderie then moving and getting great coders to help improve the wiki we could make user talk pages so much better, perhaps removing them from the "My Home" area every time one get's edited but perhaps create another feature such as "social" or something that shows updates to talk pages and forums, even perhaps adding another button like the "My Home" area to narrow what's being shown down to what pages your following. Another feature that would help editors welcome new members to the wiki would be a feature on the main page or something that lists members who have joined within the past 7 days, those people then being removed from the New Member list after those 7 days. Just brainstorming ideas.

Sannse - <staff />. "Your friendly neighbourhood staffer"
TALK - 21:28, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and say that the new look is now available for everyone to try as a preference. I hope you'll give it a go... including the options to theme the wiki and make it fit your topic. If you want help with that, then please let me know. And I hope you will all decide to stay with us here at Wikia

maggosh - I had been told the darkness would devour me, but what terrors could it possibly hold, so long as I found the strength to control it?
TALK - This world is just too small.

Well, Sannse, seeing as you didn't read the previous posts, allow me to summarize;

Everyone either tried or saw the new look.

Everyone hates it, due to its space-wasting abilities and other issues.

Everyone wants you to either get rid of it or make it an optional skin.

If it isn't made optional, the wiki's moving.

KujaRhapsodos - You don't need a reason to help people
TALK - 00:36, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

I feel bad for all the wikia staff who worked very hard on Oasis, but it just doesn't fit. It's ugly and impractical. All the older wikis have been strutured to fit Monaco and Monobook. To change now means that a lot of wikis are now not nice at all to look at. I don't understand what was so terrible about Monaco that you had to change it. We lived with Monaco for a good few years, and saw no problems with it. We do, however, see a lot of problems with Oasis, that beta testers DID point, but that weren't fixed. Why the need to change? Instead of solving problems, it created more.

I got a request for some advise on hosting elsewhere, so I'll just iterate over a few notes:

I'll spare you the bias on how I came up with the ShoutWiki name, the group broke apart, some members became involved in what seamed to be shady business, then a new ShoutWiki group came out from that and swiped the ShoutWiki name... Right now ShoutWiki has a single server, they're thinking of getting a "backup" server, but there is absolutely no proper setup for good performance and fallback on ShoutWiki, and they're already having performance issues. I mentioned that a wiki like Narutopedia moving there would probably kill them from the traffic, though this wiki is only about 1/4 the traffic as the Narutopedia so it's not as heavy, but in any case performance , stability, and the reliability of the service on ShoutWiki doesn't look good.
I would recommend self-hosting usually, but I don't know if there is anyone on this wiki capable of doing that on a level that keeps the wiki running well.
- I have mentioned that on the chance that the Narutopedia does move I'd be willing to host any other related wiki along with it. But that's dependent on a few things that could cut that short (if the wiki actually decides to move, and more importantly, what my boss even thinks of the idea of hosting wiki when we have a big project -- which I was hired to create -- going into private beta, which is the more problematic thing). But I'm not sure about Kingdom Hearts as it's not so much a related wiki, I was focused around Animanga wiki as a network of them, so even if the wiki does come along, it would probably be dragged along with ideas focused around on the animanga category wiki and primarily the Narutopedia. For most things that might not mean much, besides having less priority on custom features, except for the skin. Part of self-hosting involves experimenting with various ad formats and trying to figure out the best way to get back the money needed to pay for the servers and profit the company hosting the wiki (otherwise the company looses money anyways, since it has to pay the employees spending company time working on the wiki). Trying to do this on different skins at the same time makes for a lot more work, so any other wiki would probably be stuck with the skin and experiments in advertisement placement that the Narutopedia decides on, which I'm expecting to probably be Monaco in an experiment like this with a 300px ad above the infobox, or a banner ad above the header (so far those seam to be the most popular ideas in the feedback).
Side note, Watchlist seams to be broken, I'm no longer getting e-mail updates about changes to watched pages, you may have to poke me on my talkpage once in awhile.

~ NOTASTAFF Dantman^{(Local Talk ⁝ Animanga Talk)} 14:45, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Dantman, are you at all familiar with how tfwiki.net went about doing targeted ads, etc.?Why don't you try it just to see what happens? 16:09, October 7, 2010 (UTC)