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{{Forumheader|The World that Never was | {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}} | ||
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{{DTN|time=07:02, January 9, 2011 (UTC)|text=After discussing this point with a fellow administator via IRC, it has come to my attention that a plethora of our "active" staff are not active ''at all''. Just as we did several months ago, I feel that it is time to label additional administrators and moderators as retired editors--again, nobody will lose their user rights or position, but will merely be moved off of the active staff panel. | {{DTN|time=07:02, January 9, 2011 (UTC)|text=After discussing this point with a fellow administator via IRC, it has come to my attention that a plethora of our "active" staff are not active ''at all''. Just as we did several months ago, I feel that it is time to label additional administrators and moderators as retired editors--again, nobody will lose their user rights or position, but will merely be moved off of the active staff panel. | ||
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Bluerfn, ENX, and, to an extent, Ultima fall into the same category as LevL from what I remember. I've seen them around, just not as frequently as normal. I don't know if I'd call them completely inactive. EDIT: Huh, Bluer was less active recently than I thought.}} | Bluerfn, ENX, and, to an extent, Ultima fall into the same category as LevL from what I remember. I've seen them around, just not as frequently as normal. I don't know if I'd call them completely inactive. EDIT: Huh, Bluer was less active recently than I thought.}} | ||
{{LA|Vtext=Doorsey, instead of pasting it, you could link it. I'd love to read it.}} | {{LA|Vtext=Doorsey, instead of pasting it, you could link it. I'd love to read it.}} | ||
: [[ | : [[finalfantasy:Forum:Staff Discussion#Discussion about Inactive Staff|Here you go.]] --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 08:14, January 9, 2011 (UTC) | ||
{{KrytenKoro|For reference: | {{KrytenKoro|For reference: | ||
*Bluerfn: Last edit 2 Jan, last article edit 3 Oct, last staff edit 9 Oct. | *Bluerfn: Last edit 2 Jan, last article edit 3 Oct, last staff edit 9 Oct. | ||
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As I said before, it's not a question of ''what'' they can do. It's the dedication and skill with which they do it, and NinjaSheik is an exceptionally dedicated editor. She has earned the level of trust one needs to have to be a mod.}} | As I said before, it's not a question of ''what'' they can do. It's the dedication and skill with which they do it, and NinjaSheik is an exceptionally dedicated editor. She has earned the level of trust one needs to have to be a mod.}} | ||
{{neumannz|time=06:53, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|notice=I'm not gonna lie, I'm both impressed and horribly frightened by the amount of research you put into that, dude.}} | {{neumannz|time=06:53, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|notice=I'm not gonna lie, I'm both impressed and horribly frightened by the amount of research you put into that, dude.}} | ||
{{LapisScarab|time=06:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)| | {{DTN|time=07:02, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|text=... What Neumannz said. Awesome, though. | ||
NinjaSheik also has is a veteran editor of the week--I believe she has been editing here for nearly ''two years'' now. This makes NinjaSheik very familiar with wiki policy and how the wiki has been managed and regulated before. I assure you, having been able to observe all of the staff action in the last two years, she will not fail to rise above previous actions. She's an extremely prolific editor who is more active than most of the wiki, and is one of this wiki's highest-editing users--thankfully, we are very happy to have her with us. | |||
I did some research on LevL, and W-O-W. And I'm not talking World of Warcraft, here. LevL takes the idea of gnoming, increases its helpfulness and breadth by a factor of 100, and does it at an acceptable page. LevL is an incredible WikiGnome, but I have also seen him on major forums in the past. Very often, the admins that post their opinions in the forums first cover many others' opinions, so LevL may not be contributing to discussion as much as you think because what he thinks needs to be said has already been posted. | |||
I still whole-heartedly support all three of these editors as moderators... I think they are three of the examples of true worksmanship in our non-staff community. Even if we were not moving previous staff members to inactive status, I would still have brought up this topic as a reward for the depth and breadth of their fantastic, even star-transcending work.}} | |||
{{LapisScarab|time=06:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|happytext=Chalk it up to insomnia, gratitude, and mild OCD. Ninja's gotten passed over for modship one to many times methinks.}} | |||
{{Soxra|ienzo=You bring up her talk page; look further up and tell me if that's responsible behavior for someone of a moderation position. Granted, some is, but the majority is not.<!--By the way, the stuff she posted on that anon's talk page, the 222.* one, was not helpful. It just fueled the fire.--> | |||
Regardless, that's not the point I'm after here. You said anyone can type up a Word doc or edit an image—er, no they cannot. Just watch the Recent Changes page for a whole day and watch how many paragraphs get reverted/taken down because they're not adequate. But anyone—and by anyone, I mean anyone who is literate and who has a drop of common sense—can revert vandalism. It doesn't take much to realize that adding a quote more than 10 or replacing the content with "Sora is a *****" is vandalism or a bad edit. She's been here a long time, admittedly, which is why her revert count is higher. What about the edit-count-to-days-since-registration ratio? You also show that many of her early edits were reverting vandalism. So were mine, and I can think of others who have the same quality. | |||
Though I realize how cruel all my comments sound, I'm trying to be as objective as I can. I just want you to see that the qualities that I, as a user (and someone who's looked after differing communities for a long time), expect and desire from someone of a staff position, regardless of how high on the totem pole they are. | |||
I know you value "dedication and skill", but dedication can be shown in many forms. (What if I do edit 1,000 articles incorrectly? I'm pretty dedicated to contributing, even if I haven't gotten the hang of what I should be doing just yet; my ambitions may still be in the right place.) And skill... well, sure. But I've already discussed that (two paragraphs up).|time={{User:Soxra/Sig|t=7:01am, January 10, 2011 (UTC)}}}} | |||
{{neumannz|time=07:24, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|notice=OK, now I believe it's time for my opinon. But since I always hate giving it, I'll be short. | |||
Lapis is a prominent and effective editor... But after that rather insane bit of essaying, I'd put in a word for him even if he wasn't. | |||
Levl is a most impressive gnome. I'll admit I don't actually agree with the whole "lose the capitalization in section headers" thing, but that's besides the point. (I don't remember when we decided on that bit.) | |||
NinjaShiek has been a mainstay here for a long time, and she's very reliable. I think she would be well suited for modship.}} | |||
{{Soxra|hood=Sorry, DTN, I guess I just missed the part where gnoming, reverting edits, and having a really high edit count were the only requirements for candidacy for the half-step to administration. ''('''EDIT''' (because I meant to put this in the post the *first* time I hit Save Page): Ninety-nine percent of the people I see in moderation positions who become abusive (or not even abusive, but who don't know how to use their position) are there because they were picked solely for activity level (you know, play time in game servers, post count on forums, etc.). This is why I'm so strongly against simply picking people for this reason.)'' | |||
Regardless, this will be my last comment here. Much of what I've said seems to have been ignored at large or blown out of proportion to a point where people are assuming I believe something that I do not<!--Except Lapis; thank you for actually replying to my comments for what they were.-->, and there's no point repeating my statements if they will not be read for what they are. | |||
My apologies to everyone here for getting involved in this.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig|t=8:22am, January 10, 2011 (UTC)}}}} | |||
{{LapisScarab|time=09:05, January 10, 2011 (UTC)|text=I don't think you read what any of ''us'' said quite closely enough, Soxra. When did anyone say that a high editcount was the be all-end all reason for wanting LevL and NinjaSheik to be moderators? Yes, I mentioned it, but I was mainly referring to the percentage of her edits that were geared towards work, not chat. And that was still only one of a multitude of reasons I and other have given. I'm honestly barely glancing at their actual edit counts; if all I cared about was that I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of actually combing through Ninja's contributuions. I would have just said "10K, case closed." | |||
You say that we should disregard how "high on the totem pole" they are. Umm... why wouldn't we pick the from best editors, the top of the totem pole, if you will, to be staff members? If you're talking about the edit count again, well, see my first paragraph. | |||
It isn't just that they're working hard (and I have no idea whatsoever why you're scoffing at that; of course gnoming and protecting the wiki from vandals are parts of being staff members. Making pages isn't all it's about either). It's that they've done such consistently ''good'' work. They have proven that they can be trusted. Do you really believe for a second that either LevL or NinjaSheik are going to become "abusive" if they become Mods?<!--What are they gping to do if they did anyway? Revert edits they shouldn't slightly faster?--> Sure, Ninja has a bit of a temper, but show me where she's ''ever'' reverted an edit or given a warning purely out of spite or vandalized anything. Yes, I've read her talk page (I went through basically her whole contributions list, why wouldn't I take a gander at the talk page?), and the worst she's ever done is snap at some people. '''Clearly she is a tyrant waiting for a chance to rise up!''' | |||
The same with LevL. The only real issue raised about him is that he hasn't been active on Forums ''recently''. He was in the past, and that's a legitimate concern, but [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/LevL he was just here just yesterday and is overall more active recently]. | |||
Offering a counter-argument is not the same thing as "He just didn't read what I said." I read you posts, and I understand your concerns... mostly, but I still don't agree. Yes, I know I'm being a bit of a jackass and you're not at all trying to offend anyone. I know you don't have anything against anyone and that you're just voicing your opinion, but I'm sure as hell gonna voice mine too. I don't mean to sound hostile, but that's how it is.}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|KRCCFNF='''I completely agree with these three.''' | |||
*'''Lapis- Obvious. Been nominated forever and has made about every design section on the wiki.''' | |||
*'''LevL- Never really met him, but I hear he is awesome, and there are... no gnomes in the staff at all, really. We need some.''' | |||
*'''Ninja- Again, obvious. And in response to her acting "abusive". Have you read what people have said to her before? In all honesty, she is very calm to those that attack her. Of all the crap vandals and noobs have put her through, I honestly think she deserves a little bit of bite. Oh, and rollback woukld certainly help her with vandal fighting.''' | |||
'''EDIT:Oh, and why didn't we just do this way back when Kryten started the elections that BK stopped? I mean, even then, nobody asked GS or HoO if they were going to stay active...'''}} | |||
{{NinjaSheik|sad=Guys...Please, just stop. Dark Master told me about this, he contacted me on my talk page and told me see this. I didn't know why at first, but now I do. I'm happy...I'm happy to know that Sir DTN still thinks of me like that. I'm happy that my friends defended me, but I...don't like what I'm reading. I know about my behavior, I am fully aware of that. So please, just stop. I don't want to read this anymore. | |||
I'm unworthy, I know that. I lose my temper and I know all I do is revert edits. That isn't very much, but I'm doing what I can. I don't like getting into fights, I avoid them because all of you guys are great of putting up arguements and I'm out of my league. That's that real reason why I don't go to fourms or talk pages. | |||
I can't believe you guys are making such a big deal of this. It's a postion of mods, the only fuction I can get is the rollback. That's all, so there. I said what I wanted to say. It's becoming a mod is such a big deal to everyone and if everyone thinks I'm not good enough for the job, then fine. Let Lapis-kun or LevL-san have it. They deserve more than I do. I cast my vote, so I'm done. I won't bother commenting on this fourm anymore, but I'll be keeping watch. After all, I wany Lapis-kun to win more than anyone else. He's my friend, so I'll be rooting for him.}} | |||
{{LapisScarab|time=05:23, January 11, 2011 (UTC)|text=Sorry, NinjaSheik, I guess I went a little overboard. I still think that you're very worthy of being a mod, and I stand by whatI said before, but I could have been less... vicious about it. [sheepishly saves ] Uh... Soxra? Truce? Let's get back on topic here.}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|text='''Topic restored. I still support all three of you... if Ninja still wants to be in the running. AND, back to Doorsey's "we'll be giving them our proposal" message, what if they say no... [[Forum:Staff Elections 08-10|Like last time?]]'''}} | |||
{{NinjaSheik|text=Of course I still want to be in the running, but when it comes right down to it, I'm not the one who calls the shots. The choice is up to you guys, not me. It's just that...Every time my name is mention, everyone has to argue. I would be honor to be a mod, but the newbies think that I contribute nothing to this wiki. I'm pretty sure even users that have been here for a least a year feels the same way...}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|sheath='''I haven't been here even a year, I feel that you do more than that, it's just that I always cite vandal fighting as what you do in general, because, well, you seem to undo the edit before my page can even load ^_^ But anyway, you deserve mod status. The staff needs experienced editors like you, editors that can actually use the rollback for something.'''}} | |||
{{NinjaSheik|text=That's sweet, but not everyone thinks that...Like SilverCrono, for example, or Soxra, who recently joined.}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|com='''Maybe they haven't seen your edit count. Maybe they think you've only made, say, 2000 mainspace edits... Crono that is. Soxra was very clear above, but, one user's opinion does not constitute a majority.'''}} | |||
{{SilverCrono|text=I'm sorry, guys. I was saying that I didn't believe Ninja ''needed'' Rollback; I bet she reverts faster than Doorsey of Kryten. But if I caused this, I'm sorry. I'm out anyway; regular user opinion isn't listened to, so I'm not wasting my breath. | |||
Er... fingers. Typing. Whatever, you get it.}} | |||
{{LapisScarab|time=03:09, January 12, 2011 (UTC)|text=What are you talking about? Ninja, Inexistent, LevL, myself, and The Dark Master are still all regular users. Disagreeing with someone is not that same as not listening. | |||
And Inexistent, editcount is not all that matters. Soxra and other users have given reasons as to why they disagree with some of the suggestions, but it's a big Wiki, we're not always going to agree. | |||
Lastly, again, what about Xion4ever? Will she be listed as Inactive?}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|dusk='''I meerly meant mainspace. Some users do infact, believe it or not, judge on edit count. But experienced editors don't (shouldn't), and instead look for what namespaces these edits are in. When someone assumes "oh, they only undo vandalism, so they must not have very many mainspace edits", I meant that they should be checking Special:EditCount before assuming.'''}} | |||
{{Xion4ever|time=14:35, January 12, 2011 (UTC)|text=Allow me to get one main point across before I have to go: | |||
I agree to moving up all the nominated moderators [LevL, Ninja, and Lapis] with all my heart. Seriously, those users are freaking amazing, and NO ONE can deny that. | |||
Now, about me being listed as inactive...If that is what the community feels it should do, do it! It's no lie I'm not as active as a staff member should be, we all know that. Although I do edit here as often as I can, I would understand completely if I was moved to the inactive staff list. No hard feelings, questions asked, etc. Let me give an insight about my inactivity: <small><small>outside of grounding, which expires in two years!</small></small> When Azul started losing activity in his Junior year, he was right. Junior year (at least for American users) is pure crazyiness. | |||
You have all the tests [ACT/SAT/your local and state Spring testing], every college visit card they can cram in your tiny mailbox, plenty- I repeat- PLENTY of homework from your classes (especially those taking Honors/AP courses), amongst your extra activities (band, teen court, mock trial, FPS, and what have you), then you squeeze in your church and family and you're pooped. Seriously, it's quite a typhoon. What's the point of this rant on schooling? Simple: I will still be inactive until this school year is over. I'm sorry, guys, I really am. I want to be here every day more than you all know, but it just isn't so. | |||
Like I promised earlier, I will/am getting on here more often than I have in the past. Don't view this rant as a plea to keep me off the inactive staff list- it's not. I'm giving a clearer insight to why I'm inactive and how long I will continue to be inactive. | |||
Finally, I disagree with removing any current staff members "power/rights" without their consent. They worked hard to get where they were, and when they don't show up for a while we give them the boot? Who knows what happened to them? Maybe they lost their internet service; maybe they are too busy with the real life. Who knows? But please, at least ask them if it's okay before everything is set in stone. I believe both DTN and Yuan's comment on the link DTN posted above about inactive staff were right on the head. [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Staff_Discussion#Discussion_about_Inactive_Staff click]. Final note: I don't see any reason to remove Bluer/Kate's b-crat powers or anything (I think I saw a little snip-it about this)- they've earned it and should keep it. If we need a new b-crat, then let Kryten/DTN/Neumannz have it. | |||
Thank you.}} | |||
{{EO|time=15:13, January 12, 2011 (UTC)|hooded=I personally think having another staff election is pointless. If you want to appoint a trusted user that wishes to stay here to watch over this Wiki as an admin/b-crat after we move, I really don't care, considering I'm planning on moving. I've all ready messaged DTN personally, saying that I plan to resume activity once we've moved to our new location. The only reason I have ceased consistent editing here is because the take-over by noobs and IP's has decreased my motivation. There is also the matter of school issues that keep me occupied, but just because I don't edit here daily any longer does not mean you can automatically assume I'm inactive. Once the move is completed, I shall be back doing the usual amount of editing. | |||
'''EDIT: 15:23, January 12, 2011 (UTC) PLEASE NOTE THAT AT OUR NEW LOCATION, I'LL POTENTIALLY BE CHANGING MY USER NAME!!!'''}} | |||
{{Auror Andrachome|happy=Now, let's see what Auror's going to say. Ninja and myself have '''never''' seen eye to eye. That's probably my fault. I pushed and I pushed, but, she wouldn't budge. As DTN said, it's long overdue that Ninja's been passed over for other users, as with LapisScarab as well. They have both been good users, and I believe they'll be even better moderators. Ninja may lose her temper, and naming of users, like "Sir DTN", is annoying to me, but, she's a good user, and so is LapisScarab. I have no comment on the promotion of [[User:LevL|LevL]]. | |||
The removal of mods, or admins is another thing. We should just remove their rights, and, if they come back, they'll be given them back. I say remove them, so, they won't appear in the list of admins that users occasionally go to for help. They'll message inactive admins, and they'll never get an answer. That's just my back-up plan. They do that on MySims Wiki, and it seems to be working for them fine.}} | |||
{{DTN|time=02:12, January 13, 2011 (UTC)|text=...you're kidding, right? [[finalfantasy:Forum:Staff Discussion|You obviously did not read the forum I linked to, Auror.]] (1) As already stated in the aforementioned thread off-wiki, that just makes more trouble for the bureaucrat, neither of which are exactly "easy" to contact quickly at this moment. (2) They'll message inactive admins, will they? Right, of course they will. ''Definitely not''; I mean, if I was an anon, the FIRST place I would look in the admin listing is the "INACTIVE" SECTION. Seriously, that's not an issue at all, I'm not sure how you perceived that. <!--We've also learned in the past that MySims Wiki isn't the most... cooperative. See "Amy Cotton.--> | |||
<!-- | |||
Also, if anyone changes usernames as ENX is choosing to (possibly) do, two things as well. (1) Be aware that we cannot transfer edit counts between accounts; you will restart at 0. (2) If you are a staffer, there is no purpose in you having two accounts with special user rights, so one will have to be de-staff'd. (UP FOR PRIVATE DISCUSSION WITH ME PERSONALLY.) | |||
--> | |||
Nextly, it seems that most of us are fine with the addition of one or two of the moderators. Obviously, some of us are disagreeing on the awesomeness of LapisScarab's section writing, LevL's super-gnoming, and NinjaSheik's reverting/all-around experience, the latter of which applies to all three of these. Since another of our mods, Xion4ever, has chosen to be labeled as inactive due to real life situations, this only opens up another spot. Honestly, this just makes it more justifiable to promote more users to mods, so I don't see why this is not ''another'' reason to select all three of these users as mods. | |||
Also, please do not feel like regular user opinion does not matter. That is not true in the slightest, SilverCrono and... other user(s). Granted, most of our staff members have more experience with the politics and gnoming that run a wiki, but this place is a dead tumbleweed without its community supporting it, ESPECIALLY in decisions. For example, the SEIWA has been a discussion largely fueled by the non-staff community. The result is that most of those notes on the revote forum are ideas of the community not just things the admins come up with. | |||
... also, moving away in eleven days, hooray! So let's get this rollin', because we don't even have two more weeks to wait.}} | |||
{{KrytenKoro|Wikia is able to change usernames without it simply being "sign up for a different name", so I assume that the DB should be able to handle it.}} | |||
{{The Inexistent|text='''@DTN [[User_talk:Scottch#Italian_Version|It's]] [[User_talk:XienZo#Good_enough?|happened]] [[User_talk:XienZo#Hi there|before]]...'''}} | |||
{{Organization 13|text=<small>I feel really out of place with all the big long comments so I'm just gonna say that I agree that NinjaSheik, Lapis and LevL should be mods.</small>}} | |||
{{Dan da Man36|time=08:59, January 16, 2011 (UTC)|happy=Still a bit bus-lagged from my journey home, so I'm keeping this short. | |||
*LapisScarab: '''Yes'''. He's an awesome, friendly, efficient, and highly intelligent and literate user. The work he's done on Design, Etymology, and many other article sections is absolutely amazing. | |||
*LevL: '''Yes'''. A really friendly user, he gets on with work that no-one else wants to bother to do. The best WikiGnome I've ever seen, I strongly agree that he should be appointed Moderator rights. | |||
*NinjaSheik: '''Yes'''. Her vandal-battling skills are second to none. Everyone loses their temper at times, but NinjaSheik has never lost her head completely. I really think she deserves Modship. | |||
So, it's a resounding "Yes" from me on the subject of appointing these three fantastic users as Moderators.}} | |||
{{TNE|time=22:26, January 16, 2011 (UTC)|attntext=I have come across all three users - Dan has already addressed what I wanted to say. All three get my vote. ^_^ | |||
Just to add on to what he said, NinjaSheik has been here reverting and blocking and contributing large chunks ever since mid-2009, and these contribs are the ones I remember till today.}} | |||
{{GS|time=18:56, January 19, 2011 (UTC)|text=With all of the previously anticipated games having been released, I just sort of lost my enthusiasm to make edits here. I don't doubt that with the new announcements and information pouring in recently that my activity here will increase, however, it's understandable if the community decides to put me into retirement. While I do find the administrator rights handy, the main thing I'm happy about is how much the wiki has grown since I first started making my edits here. It's really good to have seen it improve as much as it has and I have full faith in the community to make the right decisions. | |||
So do with my admin status as you all see fit, and even if I am put into retirement, it can always change again in the future I'm sure. | |||
As for the nominated moderators, I approve of them all and I'm sure they'd do an excellent job.}} | |||
{{BebopKate|time=04:38, January 20, 2011 (UTC)|text=Hey guys. I see we're back in staff selection mode. | |||
I apologize because what I thought was going to a month-or-so long break has turned out to be much longer than I anticipated. And alas, it's still not over yet. That pesky real life thing has hit me ''hard''. When only you are around to support yourself financially and mentally, it kind of takes a priority. | |||
More mods and staff? By all means. If you think we need a retired/inactive list, that's also fine. I know Bluer's been much more available than myself lately, but if another active bureaucrat is needed, then it should be done. | |||
I'm honestly not going to get any heartburn over taking a retired status, truth be told. The last couple of months have made me force to get my priorities in order, and unfortunately, a wiki about one of my favorite games has fallen to the bottom of the list amid concerns about family, friends, and health. And so it shall remain, alas, for the time being. | |||
I wish you guys luck with the move, and hope things go as smoothly as possible. Perhaps one day when things calm down, I'll be able to return on a more frequent basis.}} | |||
{{The Dark Master|time=--[[User:The Dark Master|The Dark Master]] 16:22, January 21, 2011 (UTC)|text=So shall we make Sheik,Lapis and Lev moderators.Sheik is a good user who tries her best to keep info safe from vandals,Lapis is a good editor and one of my greatest rivals on the wiki and Lev is good at editing here.}} | |||
{{Chitalian8|time=03:32, February 3, 2011 (UTC)|talk= Yeah, so... how much longer shall we wait 'till we give them mod rights? Are we waiting until we move to KHDB, or what?}} | |||