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:::::::What evidence do we have for "guardian"? In BBS, the mission text says to "defeat Xehanort and his shadowy other" so I'm more in favour of Xehanort's "shadow" than "guardian". {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC) | :::::::What evidence do we have for "guardian"? In BBS, the mission text says to "defeat Xehanort and his shadowy other" so I'm more in favour of Xehanort's "shadow" than "guardian". {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC) | ||
::::::::I think that would have been the quote "Come, guardian". {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC) | ::::::::I think that would have been the quote "Come, guardian". {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::The [http://i.imgur.com/Oiuyo88.jpg original KH Ultimania] gives it another placeholder name, {{nihongo|"Small, Darkside-like being (Below, Shadow)"|小さなダークサイドような者（以下、影）|Chiisana Daakusaido-younasaha (Ika, Kage)}}, if we want to mention that in the article. The attack descriptions just keep calling it the {{nihongo|shadow|影|kage}}.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Better (Official) Image? == | |||
Would it be possible to extract the guardian's image from one of the following sources? I'd like to replace the fan-posed render with something official. | |||
*[http://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM%20HEARTS%20X/Cards/Dark%20Cards/SR+/Ansem02.png 01] | |||
*[http://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM%20HEARTS%20X/Cards/Dark%20Cards/SR+/Ansem04.png 02] | |||
*[http://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM%20HEARTS%20X/Cards/Dark%20Cards/SR/Ansem02.png 03] | |||
*[http://www.khunchainedx.com/wiki/File:Ansem_SP_Ver_6★_KHUX.png 04] | |||
- {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 16:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Renaming of page == | |||
Given the revelations in Kingdom Hearts III, is there enough to justify the renaming of this page to Terra's Heartless? If so, would such edits have to wait until the spoiler policy expires? [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] ([[User talk:Joveus|talk]]) 20:57, 3 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:Moving the page? No. The issue comes to having consensus on doing so. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this "thing" officially referenced as "Guardian" in KH1? {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 00:10, 4 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::Yes. In several games, Ansem's "shadowy other" (what it's referred to in ''KHBBS'') is referred to explicitly as the Guardian ("Come, Guardian!"). - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 00:56, 4 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::It is not referred to in an official way in KH1. "Come '''g'''uardian" is all we hear. No captions. | |||
*In dialogue: "Come guardian" | |||
*Novel: Ansem's shadow | |||
*Ultimania: "The monster behind Ansem" and "Terra's phantom" | |||
*BBS boss battle tag: "Xehanort's shadowy other" | |||
*KH ultimania: "small, Darkside-like being" and "shadow". | |||
:::Given that there is no official term for this (at least, not that I've yet seen in KH3, given that I'm not at the end yet), and that we're currently relying on a ''descriptor'', I would advocate the now-known-to-be-more-accurate-and-specific descriptor of "Terra's Heartless".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:29, 6 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::In my opinion, calling this "Terra's Heartless" is even worse than calling it "Xehanort's guardian." I could be wrong, but I remember reading somewhere the quote was "Come, Guardian!" with an uppercase "G." Can't recall the source. In the meantime, I suggest we wait till the ''KHIII'' Ultimania comes before proceeding further. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 03:33, 7 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0eoNGCUcAAK_1q.jpg Nipping this in the bud before speculation gets passed off as fact.] It's not a Heartless, just an occasional container for Terra's heart. (Incidentally, Terra-Xehanort in KH3 is Present Terra's body + past Terra-Xehanort's heart.) [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 09:57, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:テラの心は閉じこめられていただけで,"怪物がテラのハートレス"というわけではない. | |||
:"While Terra's heart is trapped within, I wouldn't say 'the monster is definitely Terra's Heartless'." | |||
:Well then why the hell did you design it to look like a Heartless? Weird. But, seems clear enough. | |||
:That being said, it's still clearly linked to Terra, not Xehanort. Can we move this to "Terra's phantom"?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::Not a fan of the flowery, not-official-but-trying-to-sound-cool name choice. I think the article title is fine as it is. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 13:49, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::Terra's phantom is closer to official than "Xehanort's guardian". "Terra's phantom" is actually stated in the ultimania. Regardless, the newest Ultimania apparently calls it, officially, "The One Behind".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:03, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::Is it "The One Behind," or "The Person Behind?" I've seen both... Either way, it seems we have our official name, horrible as it is. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 15:45, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::Well, the excerpt I posted calls it "Monster behind Terra-Xehanort" (テラ=ゼアノートの背後の怪物) in full. [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 16:09, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::::Tiny robot posted "Ushiro no Jin", which would be "The One Behind".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:03, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Right, but there isn't really anything that makes ushiro no jin a more "official name". It doesn't have one and is just described in generic terms. [[User:Pink Agaricus|Pink Agaricus]] ([[User talk:Pink Agaricus|talk]]) 17:06, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Weird, they called it an official name. If it's not, then I'm still voting for Terra's phantom as the name that is most explicitly used within official materials, and is the closest description of what it actually is.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:21, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::What is the exact translation of the text? Whichever one Nomura says is the true, 100% "official name" should be the one we go with. The alternate name can then be added to the intro with "also called ___ in the Ultimania," or something along those lines. Personally, I've seen more about 'The One Behind' than 'Terra's phantom.' I haven't seen that one mentioned even once, at least by translators. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 18:56, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
:Terra's phantom was in previous ultimanias (memorial, I believe) as discussed above.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:46, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | |||
::With everything that's been discussed, I believe we should move the page to "The One Behind", and then mention it also being referred to as "Terra's Phantom", and "Guardian" (by Ansem) in the introductory paragraph, similarly to what has been done on pages like No Name, where it references also being referred to as "Gazing Eye" ([[User:Levi657|Levi657]] ([[User talk:Levi657|talk]]) 12:53, 2 March 2019 (UTC)) | |||
:Terra's phantom and guardian, to be clear.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:07, 3 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:How has the discussion gone about? I just have a little input. In KHUX, there's {{khux|Ansem (Board)|an avatar board of Ansem}} with an avatar part called "Ansem: Monster Balloon" (EN notice: https://cache.sqex-bridge.jp/api/information/detail/32033?lang=en). In the Japanese version, it's called "アンセムコスの背後の怪物風船" (Monster Balloon Behind Ansem Cos/Costume) (JP notice: https://cache.sqex-bridge.jp/api/information/detail/27021). I believe that's the only in-game name we have for the guardian (other than "guardian"), and also the only English localisation. By removing "Balloon" from the localised name, we get "Monster". With what we have in the Ultimania now, it aligns with the name "背後の怪物" which translates to "The Monster Behind" (same as the Japanese name). Though for some reason in the localisation of KHUX, the term "behind" is removed to just "Monster Balloon" instead of "Monster Balloon Behind". [[User:LightKeyDarkBlade|LightKeyDarkBlade]] ([[User talk:LightKeyDarkBlade|talk]]) 15:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
::So, to clarify, are "The One Behind", "The Person Behind" and "The Monster Behind" all English translations of the same string of kanji - "背後の怪物"? If so, then "The Monster Behind" seems to be the best option, no? Or is all this too much hassle and better to leave as "Xehanort's Guardian", even if it is an unofficial name? - [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] ([[User talk:Joveus|talk]]) 13:07, 12 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::No, that's not correct. You're summarizing several different Japanese descriptions of the phantom, only one of which is treated as an official name: "The One Behind".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:06, 12 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::BTW, for clearing up the "guardian" thing -- he's definitely [https://youtu.be/i2CRyyj9ZEI?t=1358 not saying Guardian]. Not sure what he's saying, but it sounds like an imperative verb.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:07, 12 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::「私を護るのだ！ or "Protect me!", which doesn't really help. The KH3 Ultimania has the name as 「うしろの人」which, I believe, can be translated to both "The One Behind" and "The Person Behind". - [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] ([[User talk:Joveus|talk]]) 14:29, 12 April 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::Not too sure about "The Person Behind". But "怪物" means monster/creature usually. "One" can also be used in a more general sense. [[User:LightKeyDarkBlade|LightKeyDarkBlade]] ([[User talk:LightKeyDarkBlade|talk]]) 06:24, 3 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::This one advocates "The One Behind".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:33, 3 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
==The One Behind, a Heartless or a Something-Else?== | |||
This isn't the first and probably not the last time this gets discussed but are we really sure the One Behind isn't a special type of Heartless? It has all the physical traits of a Heartless and has appeared in the very first game giving us all the implications that it is one. We count the World of Chaos as a Special Heartless even though we don't get a direct confirmation just like the One Behind. I know it's never been stated directly, but could we classify it as a Special Heartless? I just feel we should at least go with the closest thing until we hear about a new type of dark being like something that simbiotes with powerful Heartlesses. [[User:ZBroadcast|ZBroadcast]] ([[User talk:ZBroadcast|talk]]) 11:41 2 December, 2019 (UTC) | |||
:Regarding World of Chaos being a Special Heartless, I think that's because it's basically just Ansem SoD transformed into a giant monster, Ansem is a Heartless so it makes sense him as a giant monster would be a Heartless too. Come Guardian is much more ambiguous, it being a dark construct certainly makes sense and I think that's the most fitting description to give it seeing as we don't know if it is specifically a Heartless or not. Come Guardian being a Heartless would still certainly make sense, just a Heartless that happens to hold a heart kind of like the Lich, but like I said we don't have many bread crumbs to work with so I think for now dark construct sounds like the most fitting classification, and if we're lucky maybe Re:Mind will throw us a bone regarding the matter. [[User:Pureautism|Pureautism]] ([[User talk:Pureautism|talk]]) 04:54, 3 December 2019 (UTC) | |||
== New English name revealed in KH3 Data Greeting: "Dark Figure" == | |||
I am aware that KH3 Ultimania revealed this character to be called うしろの人, meaning "The One Behind". However, the character is listed among the Data Greeting characters in KH3 under the name "Dark Figure", in the same list as the real Organization XIII members. If うしろの人 is the name used in the Japanese version of the game, I propose we change the article title. If not, the name should at least be acknowledged in the article. [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 02:27, 25 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
:I can confirm that it's still called うしろの人 in the Japanese version, so it should indeed be moved. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
::Alright, who should get on that? [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 15:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::I will, so I can use the bot to change the links right away. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 15:47, 27 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
== “Guardian” == | |||
Among the bevy of names bolded at the front of the article (many of which I’ve anecdotally never seen besides), not one mention of the word “Guardian” despite Ansem’s English voice clips? [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] ([[User talk:TJF588|talk]]) 14:53, 3 July 2020 (UTC) [[User:TJF588|TJF588]] ([[User talk:TJF588|talk]]) 14:53, 3 July 2020 (UTC) | |||
:Because Ansem's saying "guardian", not "Guardian". The other names are from the ultimanias, novel, or journal descriptions. The Dark Figure was ''called'' a guardian, but never actually ''named'' Guardian. See the above discussion for how comparing to the Japanese script makes that clear.[[Special:Contributions/199.247.47.69|199.247.47.69]] 13:09, 27 August 2020 (UTC) | |||