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Forum:Talk Sprites for Deletion: Difference between revisions
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{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=04:03, 5 January 2014 (UTC)|text=Ok, we started this discussion on the [[KHWiki:Pages for | {{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=04:03, 5 January 2014 (UTC)|text=Ok, we started this discussion on the [[KHWiki:Pages for deletion|Pages for Deletion]] page. The original discussion is here, before I give my response.}} | ||
<i><b>From the Pages for Deletion page:</b> | <i><b>From the Pages for Deletion page:</b> | ||
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{{Xion4ever|time05:27, 5 January 2014 (UTC)|talktext=Apparently it was misunderstood what I meant by referencing all the deletions. The point of those are to prove that regardless of the royal pain it is, we can do it. We've done it before and we can do it again. Wanting to leave them on here in fear of the amount of work/how lame it would be is an easy/lazy way out. If we could get a group of users to help off-load these images off the Wiki then link them back into the appropriate templates/user pages/articles/etc., these images would be taken care of in no time at all. (<- ''Thought #1'') I think it is safe to say this whole mess is my fault. I've been working on the Articles for Deletion category for a long time- far too long, in fact. Apologizing now wouldn't solve or prove anything. | {{Xion4ever|time05:27, 5 January 2014 (UTC)|talktext=Apparently it was misunderstood what I meant by referencing all the deletions. The point of those are to prove that regardless of the royal pain it is, we can do it. We've done it before and we can do it again. Wanting to leave them on here in fear of the amount of work/how lame it would be is an easy/lazy way out. If we could get a group of users to help off-load these images off the Wiki then link them back into the appropriate templates/user pages/articles/etc., these images would be taken care of in no time at all. (<- ''Thought #1'') I think it is safe to say this whole mess is my fault. I've been working on the Articles for Deletion category for a long time- far too long, in fact. Apologizing now wouldn't solve or prove anything. | ||
The point of this forum is, as I understand it, this: '''''Do we want the fan-edited Days images on the Wiki, or offloaded to Photobucket and linked back?''''' There has been a mini discussion about this on the IRC. <small>Log can be found: [http://freetexthost.com/kcjtmcttsn here].</small> Allow me to restate that this is focused solely on the Days images, not other images found in the Category: | The point of this forum is, as I understand it, this: '''''Do we want the fan-edited Days images on the Wiki, or offloaded to Photobucket and linked back?''''' There has been a mini discussion about this on the IRC. <small>Log can be found: [http://freetexthost.com/kcjtmcttsn here].</small> Allow me to restate that this is focused solely on the Days images, not other images found in the Category:Pages for deletion. | ||
Personally, I am against leaving the images on the Wiki. The suggestion to replace them with images that are official would work for any articles (mainspace, that is). That would be a good move. However, for users [userpages, user templates, etc.] it doesn't feel right or fair. To me, that seems like doing it half-way, which is a joke. I'm not going to lie, moving these images is not fun and is probably one of the suckiest form of getting edits. But, it would be worth it. Not only would we finally get the deletion category half cleaned, but we'd finally prove ourselves on following the most recent image policy we agreed upon. | Personally, I am against leaving the images on the Wiki. The suggestion to replace them with images that are official would work for any articles (mainspace, that is). That would be a good move. However, for users [userpages, user templates, etc.] it doesn't feel right or fair. To me, that seems like doing it half-way, which is a joke. I'm not going to lie, moving these images is not fun and is probably one of the suckiest form of getting edits. But, it would be worth it. Not only would we finally get the deletion category half cleaned, but we'd finally prove ourselves on following the most recent image policy we agreed upon. | ||
There are several ways we can go about this, but to shorten this already long eye-sore text I will only mention one...''Proposal 1'': (Under the belief that the images should be held off-Wiki, linked back on the Wiki, and then deleted) Get a group of users to take "so-and-so" characters and upload onto a Photobucket account. The Wiki has one, but I can't remember who all had the log-in information. If desired we could perhaps create a separate Photobucket account solely for these images. That way anyone on here could log in, upload the images, and then get off. Once the images were all accounted for, a staff member could go in and change the password so no one could "vandalize" the account. Any images that-for whatever reason- needed to be uploaded later to that account could be done so by a staff member. Each user who decided to help out would be charged with not only uploading the character(s) images to Photobucket, but would also be in charge of: switching any/all articles/userspace/ANYTHING the image links to; posting the now-"linkless"/"ready-to-delete" image names on the [[KHWiki:Pages for | There are several ways we can go about this, but to shorten this already long eye-sore text I will only mention one...''Proposal 1'': (Under the belief that the images should be held off-Wiki, linked back on the Wiki, and then deleted) Get a group of users to take "so-and-so" characters and upload onto a Photobucket account. The Wiki has one, but I can't remember who all had the log-in information. If desired we could perhaps create a separate Photobucket account solely for these images. That way anyone on here could log in, upload the images, and then get off. Once the images were all accounted for, a staff member could go in and change the password so no one could "vandalize" the account. Any images that-for whatever reason- needed to be uploaded later to that account could be done so by a staff member. Each user who decided to help out would be charged with not only uploading the character(s) images to Photobucket, but would also be in charge of: switching any/all articles/userspace/ANYTHING the image links to; posting the now-"linkless"/"ready-to-delete" image names on the [[KHWiki:Pages for deletion|Deletion]] page. Once the user had completed the above three tasks an admin would re-check to make sure the image has indeed been purged from the Wikispace, and then delete the fan image from existence. Yay great purging. | ||
On a side note: Wonder if we could use the bot to help tackle the more popular images like [[:File:DaysRoxas.png]]? | On a side note: Wonder if we could use the bot to help tackle the more popular images like [[:File:DaysRoxas.png]]? | ||
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{{Xion4ever|time=03:13, 7 January 2014 (UTC)|text=I'll tackle these points one-by-one: | {{Xion4ever|time=03:13, 7 January 2014 (UTC)|text=I'll tackle these points one-by-one: | ||
1) About "deactivating" Xiggie/TNE's template archives: For Xiggie are you talking about User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate and User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate 2? As for TNE's talk template archive: I'm not familiar with her intentions with that. Before we do anything, I'd rather we get her input. If we decide against that, could we spare the [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Talk Template Archive/Emotion Guide]]? Not only is this a guide on talk bubble creation, but Kate referenced it on the [[Help: | 1) About "deactivating" Xiggie/TNE's template archives: For Xiggie are you talking about User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate and User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate 2? As for TNE's talk template archive: I'm not familiar with her intentions with that. Before we do anything, I'd rather we get her input. If we decide against that, could we spare the [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Talk Template Archive/Emotion Guide]]? Not only is this a guide on talk bubble creation, but Kate referenced it on the [[Help:New user guide]]. Don't want that part to get lost in the mix. (Scratch this point if using the bot will solve this problem.) | ||
2) On Realm of Sleep Forums: So far the ones "put to sleep" have been from The World that Never was forums. Are you wanting the same for the old Twilight Town forums as well? | 2) On Realm of Sleep Forums: So far the ones "put to sleep" have been from The World that Never was forums. Are you wanting the same for the old Twilight Town forums as well? | ||
3) On using the bot: Heck yeah I'm up for using it. I have no idea how to run it, but I don't have to necessarily be told, either. If only a certain number of users should know, that's cool. I'm not familiar with how the bot works- such as how many tasks it can take at a time, and the like. Our first batch of Days images should be those found in the [[:Category: | 3) On using the bot: Heck yeah I'm up for using it. I have no idea how to run it, but I don't have to necessarily be told, either. If only a certain number of users should know, that's cool. I'm not familiar with how the bot works- such as how many tasks it can take at a time, and the like. Our first batch of Days images should be those found in the [[:Category:Pages for deletion]]. Truth be told, I think that's all of them... Something before using the bot, though: Do the Days images need to be renamed? That's going to be a nightmare, but if you guys say yes, then I'll do my part. | ||
4) Announcement stuff: How long do you think the warning should last? If we can get this decision set in stone we could start a day after we close this forum. Say: If we get done tomorrow, we start the spamming Wednesday. Not gonna lie, I really want to remove this headache. You guys think three days is enough? A week?}} | 4) Announcement stuff: How long do you think the warning should last? If we can get this decision set in stone we could start a day after we close this forum. Say: If we get done tomorrow, we start the spamming Wednesday. Not gonna lie, I really want to remove this headache. You guys think three days is enough? A week?}} | ||
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I don't have a talk bubble, but I still think those images are pretty official. Just flipped automatically makes it fanon? You can see those sprites when holding the DS in front of a mirror, can't you? These are close enough. And if we link almost every image back to photobucket, what's the point of having a filespace anymore? These are sprites used on administrative templates, that are used on the mainspace. I think they should be kept. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 20:24, 7 January 2014 (UTC) | I don't have a talk bubble, but I still think those images are pretty official. Just flipped automatically makes it fanon? You can see those sprites when holding the DS in front of a mirror, can't you? These are close enough. And if we link almost every image back to photobucket, what's the point of having a filespace anymore? These are sprites used on administrative templates, that are used on the mainspace. I think they should be kept. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 20:24, 7 January 2014 (UTC) | ||
{{Xion4ever|time=21:00, 7 January 2014 (UTC)|text=''EDIT CONFLICT'' Understood. Forum discussion on a separate forum. Regardless of what happens, TNE's emotion guide won't be deleted. If need be we'll just rename it to a different part of TNE's userspace. As for deleting the TalkTemplateArchive, we first have to decide on whether we're keeping the Days images or not- as Neumannz said. I don't see the point in sparing half of the images just because we're using them in templates. To me, this seems like an "all-or-nothing" project. Say we did do that, some users might see the few remaining Days images and go: "Those are still here! Why did you get rid of the others? They're the same thing." We can say some reasons why, but it wouldn't do us any good. The images are the same. Just because they aren't used in a template doesn't mean they're any less of worth than the others. | |||
After reading Shard's comment I've realized our definitions of "altered" are different. He follows a more "loose"/liberal definition while mine is a bit more strict- which isn't a bad thing to have: different opinions. Anyways, if we define altered as showing a different expression than the official images- say someone made Roxas smile bigger or something- or blatant alterations [add on of sparkles/whatever], then there's no reason the Days images should be moved off Wiki. It's kind of like: [[:File:Organization XIII KHD.png|this image]]. I don't remember ever seeing this officially released. Same thing for the Lost Boys and Seven Dwarfs, I thought those images were originally released in two complete sets, not individual crops of each character. That said, I'm seeing this in a new light now. If we use the altered definition mentioned above/Shard's, then I'm cool with leaving the images on the Wiki. That would take care of the Days images in the deletion category. | |||
If we do keep them, though, what would we do with the images found [[:Category:Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Sprites|here?]] They are the original in-game images with red banner. The reason I bring this up is how not all images use them (meaning some are in the UnusedFiles page). Most character galleries use the Days images flipped and without the banner. We could: mix the two together; delete the ones with the red banner; or simply have them on file [do nothing].}} | |||
I think we should just do nothing about them. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 21:11, 7 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 21:34, 7 January 2014 (UTC)|default=This is what I think on the matter: Shard's loose definition of an "altered" image works fine in most cases however, since we '''already''' have the completely unaltered sprites, the official should trump the sub-official. I propose that for Galleries, we use the complete-official ones since that's most fitting for the main space. With the reversed sprites, We may still need to do the photobucket thing since most of them aren't just reversed. Remember that editors added in their own pixels to replace what was hidden behind the red bar. Any sprites like that is fanart in my opinion.}} | |||
And there are some that didn't have anything added where the red bar is. And we only got a handful of those official ones. Most of the others were flipped. The flipped ones outnumber the accurate ones. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 23:19, 8 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=01:56, 9 January 2014 (UTC)|text=It seems a large part of this discussion centers around whether flipping/cropping is enough to make the sprite unofficial, so I suggest we just vote on it. | |||
If we do call them unofficial, then I suggest we stick to our policy and host them offsite (as opposed to classifying them as "wiki images" and leaving them here). Then we have the choice of continuing to use them in templates by linking to photobucket or whatever, but I would like to suggest we use something other than sprites for a change in our templates, even if they are custom "wiki images". | |||
Unfortunately, we do not have the unaltered sprites for most of the emotions. If we can get them, then I'm not really bothered with deleting the altered ones. Until then, however, I think we should hold onto them, whether we vote them unofficial or not.}} | |||
I think considering flipped ones as fanart would be very nitpicky. If we go even more extreme and consider cropped images as fanart, we would end up with the full screenshot of a cutscene with less focus on the sprite. One step further would be a photograph of a DS with a blurry picture. What I consider fanart is if you add something to it like changing Roxas' hair blue, giving Sora sunglasses or changing a frown into a smile. Those kinds of edits would be fanart. But flipping a sprite, you'd get the same result as playing in front of the mirror. If flipped images are fanart, wouldn't that mean your reflection is fan art? Is the mirror a fan artist? I would think of an artist as a human and not an inanimate object! [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 02:27, 9 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=05:30, 9 January 2014 (UTC)|text=I agree with SeanWheeler. Cropped or flipped sprites I don't think are truly fanart. Edits on the sprites such as changing emotions are. I vote for keeping the former on site. | |||
On the other hand, we should replace the images on the Admin. Templates with official sprites. Surly we can find official sprites of people yelling or whatever, and find the appropriate line from the series to fit the purpose of the template (seriously, seven games, we should be fine).}} | |||
{{Chainoffire|time=[[User:Chainoffire|Chainoffire]] ([[User talk:Chainoffire|talk]]) 06:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)|xemnas=I would like to point out there there is in fact more official sprites than what we have on the wiki. they can be found [http://www.spriters-resource.com/ds/kh358/sheet/24287/ here].}} | |||
You're suggesting we'd steal from another site? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 20:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Chain never said anything about using without permission. He just noted that that site has more than what we have already. And as you can see through the fine print at the bottom, "No need for credit, but don't claim as your own" So as long as we don't say "We ripped these ourselves", we're not violating Barubary's TOU. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 21:13, 9 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Okay, we can take them all then! Hehehe... [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 01:49, 11 January 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Are we going to get on with this discussion? [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 02:12, 28 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=23:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)|notice=Alright, let's get this settled. | |||
*Is there any objection to keeping talk sprites that have been flipped and had the red banner cropped on the wiki? | |||
*Is there any objection to filling out our talk sprite collection from Spriter's Resource (giving credit, obviously)? | |||
}} | |||
{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 23:46, 18 April 2014 (UTC)|default=My opinion: I'm fine with both.}} | |||
:I have no problem with either, HOWEVER, I do believe we need to choose between either having the flipped/no red banner ones, or the ones with the red banners from the original game. Or we could have both, one used in galleries (w/ red banner) and the other being used for talk sprites (w/o red banner)... or was there some discussion before that went into this? {{User:Erry/Sig}} 17:15, 19 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=01:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)|text=I would be fine with the third option, using the sprites-with-banner in galleries and using the others for sprites. I don't think we'd be obligated to put the slightly edited sprites in the galleries, since we'd have the originals there.}} | |||
{{Xion4ever|time=02:59, 22 April 2014 (UTC)|text=Third option sounds good to me. We might need to upload more sprites-with-banners, though. I don't remember how many are in the sprite category, but I'm pretty sure we're missing some.}} | |||
We definitely are. If someone has an easy way of working with the sprite page from Spriter's Resource, that would be awesome. Otherwise, I can start getting the sprites...? --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 04:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
{{KeybladeSpyMaster|time=04:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)|text=Would we have to edit the images off the Sprite Page to separate them from the page? 'Cuz I've noticed the sprites are all part of one image, rather than posted separately.}} | |||
I've already separated them. I just need to upload them. Did one, will continue tomorrow. --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 04:37, 24 April 2014 (UTC) | |||
Oh, ok, cool! {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 04:40, 24 April 2014 (UTC) | |||