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Talk:Realm of Darkness: Difference between revisions
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::Basically, they're simply using a different translation for the same term we have seen before, and the logo is the ''first'' time we see this translation. We should to see if dialogue in the English version also uses "Dark World" instead of "Realm of Darkness". {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 18:34, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | ::Basically, they're simply using a different translation for the same term we have seen before, and the logo is the ''first'' time we see this translation. We should to see if dialogue in the English version also uses "Dark World" instead of "Realm of Darkness". {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 18:34, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | ||
::::We usually merge/split pages based on the Japanese name, so does anyone know the Japanese name of "Dark World"? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:38, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | ::::We usually merge/split pages based on the Japanese name, so does anyone know the Japanese name of "Dark World"? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:38, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | ||
:::::Daaku Warudo lol? They always just romanize the english spelling/pronunciation. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:45, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::::They don't always do that. In previous games, it is called 闇の世界 (Yami no Sekai). If they call this ダークワールド (Dāku Wārudo), it means they are two different things. If they call it the same, it's the same area. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:53, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::::That's...pretty base logic. "Realm of Darkness" was always an informal name, to serve as a counterpart to the Realm of Light. Besides, this series has retconned the shit out of way bigger things - this is just giving it a more official designation. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 19:14, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Land of Departure was "Tabidachi no Chi", not "Rando obu Dipāchā". And no, the series doesn't retcon itself all the time. Very few things have been retconned, like Ansem not being Ansem. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 19:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::As shown in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyftizgy_s this video of the English version], the objectives that you can complete to get customizable accessories show the location where it can be completed, and objectives that can be complete anywhere say "Location: Dark World". If we can get an official Japanese text for "Dark World", it's in that menu. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 13:06, 12 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::I suppose it is ''technically'' possible that the world's English name will not match the logo, as with the [[Pride Lands]]. So we can do the move now, and change everything else when the game comes out depending on it. Mainly what I'm trying to get at -- the Realm of Light isn't synonymous with the worlds lying within it. It's not even synonymous with the World that was within it back before that world split, because there's still the Other Sky, and that World as a ''concept'' had different properties than the Realm itself, like using the Door to Light, etc. Even if there's no other physical location within the Realm, it's conceivable that it's a situation like the finale of NuWho Series 5, where Earth is the only planet left in the universe, so we need to make sure we're looking for any mentions in 0.2 that match old descriptions of the realm itself -- like, for example, does Aqua talk about the doors to Kingdom Hearts, does Mickey talk about diving to the "Dark World" to get the Keyblade, do they mention Castle Oblivion at all, Corridors of Darkness, or talk about how being in the "Dark World" erodes your sense of self? That would be a smoking gun, if they mention any of the metaphysics and use whatever the official name is for the new world -- or if the new world simply uses the "yami no sekai", then we're cool to shift the terminology everywhere, as we did with Other Sky.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::Sorry if it feels like I'm digging in my heels on this -- I think it's probably correct that we're going to need to shift everything to "Dark World", but considering that this is going to be a wiki-wide change to a pretty fundamental terminology, I just wanna make sure we cross all our t's first so we don't have the chance of jumping the gun and misinforming the community on a pretty basic issue.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:55, 12 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::I think it's alright to wait until the game's out in English. Though, as you can see at the very top of the thread, the world logo was actually discovered in an ''English'' trailer. So it's unlikely there will be any changes. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:54, 12 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Now THIS is interesting.... == | |||
Okay, things have just now gotten weird. [http://kingdomhearts.com/img/worlds/icons/end_of_sea-min.png This is a very specific and particular image] found on the Kingdom Hearts official website. The world is officially classified as '''End Of Sea'''. What sticks out to me is that this is kind of similar to what's stated in [[Director's Secret Report XIII]]: "That place that appears at the beginning and end of KHII, called the Dark Margin, is the tip of the cape of that world, and it is not strictly part of the Realm of Darkness but a boundary-like place between Darkness and Between." Guess this officially means that the shore is NOT a party of the Dark World, and actually has a name (and world icon!) all its own... Separation time? --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 03:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:[http://www.khinsider.com/news/Official-KINGDOM-HEARTS-website-updated-missing-Xbox-One-logo-8264 Didn't take long for KHInsider to twig to the fact lol]. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 03:33, 24 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
Oook....why aren't we discussing this a wee bit more? :/ --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 01:29, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Going from your first comment it seems to me that we have two options: 1) Consider the "Dark Margin" as a location in the world "End of Sea." 2) Consider "Dark Margin" and "End of Sea" as two separate worlds. Regarding the name of the image, a logo/world image for this location/world has yet to appear in the series. If it appears in 2.8HD, let's rename it as such. UPDATE 04:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC): Their website is, well, a hot mess. Radiant Garden's image is mislabeled as "Agrabah." Until they clean it up/we get more information, we might be better off playing the wait-and-see game. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 04:01, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::I actually have a half-feeling that they might even delete it. It feels like someone jumped the gun on a KH3 world. In any case, it's been uploaded and archived here. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 04:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::::End of Sea is first mentioned in the Memorial Ultimania, per Shard. I forget the context.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:10, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::::It's still a pretty weird thing to provide a high-res icon for the site right here and now. Didn't it come out like almost 3 years ago? Maybe it's worth checking up on it - to see what the Japanese name is. If it's also "End of Sea" or something similar, then it pretty much settles it right? --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 16:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
==Name of page change== | |||
Shouldn't the name of the page be changed to "Dark World"? "Realm of darkness" is never capitalized in subtitles or Reports or anything, which means that's not actually the name of the realm, that's just what people call it. "Dark World" is capitalized which means it's the official name of the realm, right? --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 05:44, 28 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Not necessarily, Dark World could very well only be a ''small part'' of the Realm of Darkness. At this exact point in time, it is still uncertain, and it would be unwise to make a statement of such magnitude on the chance that it's false. At least in my opinion anyway. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:28, 29 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Well, the thing is, in Japanese, the realm of darkness is always called "Dark World" (Yami no Sekai). I'm just sort of trying to make sense of the English localized version in a way that makes sense to the plot. The people who localized it could've had a reason for giving the realm of darkness two different names, but it was most likely just an inconsistency. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it make sense lol --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 05:48, 29 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:We have enough information for the move. I vote yes. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 05:51, 29 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Do we also have enough info to change the name of the "Sleeping Worlds" page to "Unchained"? In Back Cover, we discover that "Unchained" is a realm that's "made of dreams", so surely that means it's the realm of sleep, right? Or should we wait for Unchained X's season 2 for some more concrete evidence? --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 07:42, 29 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::Uhrr...I'm not so sure about that one yet. And technically speaking, season 2's already started since Japan got some new story content. I doubt we'll have to wait too long though. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 08:23, 29 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
::I'm not so sure we do, so I vote no. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:54, 30 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
*Xehanort's Report V: Now, in addition to the realm of light in which we reside, there is also a realm of darkness, and the realm between which connects the two. The realm of darkness is most forbidden; I am told none who set foot there have ever returned. | |||
*Xehanort's Report VI: The first and second families differ only in origin; Keyblades of darkness are found in the realm of darkness, and are counterparts to the Keyblades we use in the realm of light. | |||
*Ansem's Report 12: To get to the realm of Darkness, one must go through the doors of Kingdom Hearts, the place where the world's hearts connect. / The world in which we live. The realm of Darkness. The realm of Light. | |||
*Secret Ansem's Report 3: Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm? / I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness. / Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated. | |||
*Secret Ansem's Report 4: How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness? | |||
*Secret Ansem's Report 6: With this new power, I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world. While it is still difficult to come and go as I please, my banishment is now a thing of the past. | |||
*Secret Ansem's Report 8: Meanwhile, the King, who had dived into the realm of darkness, worked with the Keyblade-wielding hero to close the door to Kingdom Hearts from the realms of both darkness and light, thus holding off the threat of tremendous darkness. | |||
*Secret Ansem's Report 11: My friend has been fighting in the realm of darkness. Most likely he found his way there through Traverse Town. / It seems my friend, fighting in the realm of darkness, appeared in Castle Oblivion through a corridor of darkness constructed by Organization XIII. | |||
*KH3D Glossary: Kingdom Hearts: The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of worlds had a door that led to the realm of darkness; its depths were never fully charted. | |||
*KH3D Glossary: Hearts Tied to Sora: Not long after, Terra became a vessel for Master Xehanort, and Aqua vanished into the realm of darkness. | |||
*KH3D character files: Aqua: To save a friend, she cast herself into the realm of darkness, never to be seen again. | |||
*KH3D Mementos: KHBBS: Aqua wandered the realm of darkness for a decade before meeting a stranger there. | |||
*KH3D Mementos: KH: Sora was able to close the door again with the help of Riku and King Mickey, who stayed trapped in the realm of darkness on the other side. | |||
*KH3D Mementos: KH2: By using the alternate version of the town where Roxas spent his summer vacation, Sora and the others found a way into the realm of darkness. / They were able to dispatch Xemnas, but there was no escape from the realm of darkness. At the Dark Margin, they stared out to sea, ready to give up...but then a letter in a bottle washed up. | |||
*KHUX: Your mission is to defeat the Heartless in the Corridor of Darkness. | |||
**Unclear whether this is simple tunnels from world to world, or pieces of the world a la World Terminus and Dark World. | |||
*KH2: Sora: The King was locked in the realm of darkness, right? | |||
*KH2: He found the dark realm's Keyblade, and with it, closed the door. | |||
*KH2: And the King must know where Riku is, 'cause the two of them were together in the realm of darkness when we closed the door. | |||
*KH2: Sora: And maybe something on the dark realm, too? | |||
*KH2: Sora: I don't care about any of that! Just let me into the realm of darkness, okay!? | |||
*KH2: Sora: It must be the <big>'''Realm of Darkness'''</big>! | |||
*KH2: Mickey: It might be. And there should be a way into the <big>'''Realm of Darkness'''</big> there. | |||
*KH2: Mickey: There's gotta be an entrance into the dark realm somewhere. Let's split up. | |||
*KH2: Riku must have realized then: to fight in the realm of darkness, he would have to immerse himself in that same darkness. | |||
*KH2: Mickey: You don't belong in the dark realm anymore, Riku. | |||
*KHCOM: Vexen: Riku, you say? Has he emerged from the realm of darkness? | |||
*KHCOM: Vexen: Fascinating... That's why you mistook him for the Superior. The dark power given to Riku facilitated his escape from its realm. | |||
*KHCOM: Vexen: Don't be absurd. The witch is gone. She cannot return from the realm of darkness of her own volition. | |||
*KHCOM: Mickey: I needed a way outta the realm of darkness, and then suddenly, this card appeared right in front of me. | |||
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale I: Riku, Sora, and the king worked together to close the door to darkness, but Riku was trapped inside, in the realm of darkness. | |||
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale IV: The darkness defeated Lexaeus, then dragged Riku into the realm of darkness. | |||
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale VI: Will his choice take him to the realm of light...or darkness? | |||
*KHCOM: The King: When Riku fell into the realm of darkness, the king showed him the way, but the two were separated when the door to darkness was closed. | |||
*KHBBS: Aqua: Please, call me Aqua. Why are you sitting here all alone in the realm of darkness? How did you end up here? | |||
*KH: Ursula: Oh, yes. We had a deal, didn’t we? Time for a little journey—to the dark world of the Heartless! | |||
;Can't find transcript of 0.2 or KH3DHD. | |||
Of note: We also have "End of Sea", which is treated like a world that includes the Dark Margin. There's also "End of the World", which is just...iffy. Have we ever gotten confirmation on what realm that is located in? | |||
:Okay, so, summary: | |||
*"Realm of Darkness" is canon formal descriptor as of KH2. | |||
*"Dark World" is canon formal descriptor as of KH0.2 | |||
*"dark world" (KH), "realm of nothingness" (KH2), "realm of darkness" (KHCOM, KHBBS, KH2, KH3D), and "dark realm" (KH2) are informal descriptors | |||
Considering the terminology for "Realm Between", "Realm of Light", etc. being consistent through the great majority of the games, I feel like "Dark World" should be listed as "translated as X in Y" a la [[Sonic Surge]]. That would change if AFP makes a concerted effort, in dialogue/reports as well, to refer to the location as "Dark World"/"Light World", etc. -- technically that is the first (obscure) translation of the term by Ursula, so it would be fine.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:17, 30 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:In 0.2 the world you explore is called "Dark World" in menu and such, but everyone still calls it "realm of darkness". {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
:When there's two pieces of canon that clash and contradict, we're supposed to go with the most recent one. So we make the move to Dark World, and within the page itself we put something like "also known as the Realm of Darkness". [[Ansem, Seeker of Darkness]] is an excellent example of how we go about it. --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 21:51, 30 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
I feel like we should come to a conclusion about this, so here are my final thoughts on this matter: KH0.2 uses both the names "Dark World" and "Realm of darkness", but only uses Dark World in the menu and reports and stuff, so I think we should treat Dark World as a world in the Realm of darkness, like almost all worlds are part of the Realm of light. So, I think this page should be renamed "Dark World" and cover everything from 0.2 and BBSFM, but the information about the Realm of darkness as a whole should be moved to the Universe of Kingdom Hearts page, where we also have the info for the other realms. Also, I don't think we need to change the links all over the wiki if we just let Realm of darkness redirect to the Universe page. For example, Sora's page says "Sora, Donald, and Goofy attempt to close the door before the Heartless can come through from the Realm of Darkness, ...", where Realm of darkness is linked. Technically, the Dark World is located on the other side of the door, but that doesn't really matter to the story, all that matters is that the Realm of darkness is on the other side. Therefore, we could move the page without having to worry about changing all the links. What do you think? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:24, 7 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
:I agree with Silent on this one. I think the Dark World is a world within the realm of darkness rather than the realm of darkness as a whole. I personally see it as a culmination of the worlds that had been lost to the darkness, and not the realm itself. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 19:31, 7 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
::I was kinda hoping we could get a list of quotes for what the script and reports use, as I did with the rest of the series. I haven't been able to find any transcripts for 0.2 yet.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:47, 7 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
== AFP and component worlds == | |||
So, the gameicon and navboxes are being used for the four worlds that were devoured by the Realm of Darkness. Do we consider this kosher? I may have asked this before, but are the original worlds actually mentioned? Finally, do we also apply this for stuff like claiming Pride Land in KH1 and Prankster's Paradise in BbS due to Simba and Monstro's battlefields?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Okay, so I finally played it, and the setup seems pretty close to how Chain of Memories did it. Therefore, I think "The World Within", "Castle Town", etc. should be listed as worlds in their own right, and plot-wise be treated as subworlds of "Dark World", which would be treated like we treat Castle Oblivion. I'm still not done making a list of how the script itself refers to Dark World/Realm of Darkness, but I encourage anyone else with time to help list the references.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::That could work. However, do we consider Castle Town as a part of Castle of Dreams or an entirely new world? And if we do consider them as part of the BBS world, what about Depths of Darkness? Does that count as Destiny Islands, or is that only the actual Destiny Islands part? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
== Corridors of Darkness == | |||
Do the corridors of darkness in KH2 or KHUX count as the realm of darkness? If so, we have a lot of enemies to add.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:31, 21 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
==Aqua's Rescue== | |||
It's not really well explained in cutscenes, but 'The Three Realms' glossary entry of KH3 says the power of waking can be used to enter the RoD. Should we add that to this page? --[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 21:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Mickey in Twilight Town == | |||
''After running into Mickey at Twilight Town, Sora and his friends decide that they must enter the Realm of Darkness to find Riku.'' | |||
When did this happen? I don't exactly recall this conclusion being drawn during their first visit. The three just thought Mickey would know where Riku was. If anything, it ''kind of'' happened during the third visit- but that would mean that line is out of order on the main page. --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 09:18, 10 March 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Yeah, that's just not true. Actually, Sora seeing Mickey outside the realm of darkness makes him believe Riku got out as well. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC) | |||