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Talk:Ansem the Wise: Difference between revisions
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==Only one to die on screen== | ==Only one to die on screen== | ||
One part in Trivia says Ansem the Wise is the only friendly character in the series to die on screen. But Axel turns | One part in Trivia says Ansem the Wise is the only friendly character in the series to die on screen. But Axel turns remotly friendly in Betwixt and Between, and he died on screen? | ||
I completely agree because Axel helps Sora so wouldn't that mean that he would be friendly? And besides, Ansem doesn't die because he is shown in the Reconnect. Kingdom Hearts video. | |||
==Kairi's grandfather == | ==Kairi's grandfather == | ||
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{{Template:ST|time=18:36, December 7, 2009 (UTC)|text=Think we should at least have a template?}} | {{Template:ST|time=18:36, December 7, 2009 (UTC)|text=Think we should at least have a template?}} | ||
{{NitrousX|text=Yeah, I think we should have a template.}} | {{NitrousX|text=Yeah, I think we should have a template.}} | ||
I agree that there should at least be a template | |||
--[[User:ZexionFan321|ZexionFan321]] 02:12, May 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{TNE|time=03:06, May 4, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=I beg to differ. We're not going to end up with another one-liner template like the Princesses of Heart. There are six apprentices, and we're not going to waste another ''toccolours'' template JUST FOR THAT !}} | |||
== Questions == | == Questions == | ||
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:So, considering that and the data Ansem put into Sora, is he the reason coded and BBS are "connected"?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC) | :So, considering that and the data Ansem put into Sora, is he the reason coded and BBS are "connected"?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC) | ||
While it is true that Ansem states new facts about Sora, he also makes reference to other "crippled creatures" that may or may not be him and Aqua or Terra and Ven. It is also unverified that the line in Jimminy's Journal, "We must return to free them from their torment." is directly referencing Ansem and Aqua. While it is probable, it's not defininte. We do not know if Sora even saw this line from Journal.[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 18:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC) | While it is true that Ansem states new facts about Sora, he also makes reference to other "crippled creatures" that may or may not be him and Aqua or Terra and Ven. It is also unverified that the line in Jimminy's Journal, "We must return to free them from their torment." is directly referencing Ansem and Aqua. While it is probable, it's not defininte. We do not know if Sora even saw this line from Journal.[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 18:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:I just wanna say, despite this being a very old conversation, that I knew Ansem the Wise wasn't dead. I had done countless playthroughs of KHII and thought, "If he has the power of darkness, why didn't he use it to save himself from the blast?" Then I added it to the trivia section that he could've done that. It got taken down of course, which in retrospect was understandable due to it being speculative at the time, albeit speculation that made a shitload of sense. I was only half right it seemed. (waits for people to give sarcastic comments like "Want a cookie?" or the like)[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 22:24, December 7, 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Birth by sleep == | == Birth by sleep == | ||
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I think DiZ should have his own page because he is his own charecter in his own write, think about it. DiZ and Ansem the Wise are the same person but also diffrent in meany diffrent ways thats my opinion anyway. Docyx 23 March 2010 | I think DiZ should have his own page because he is his own charecter in his own write, think about it. DiZ and Ansem the Wise are the same person but also diffrent in meany diffrent ways thats my opinion anyway. Docyx 23 March 2010 | ||
{{NAB|time=19:15, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=It seems to me we should keep this page up for a similar reason, it's kind like how there are four different Xehenorts (master, Terra, Ansem, Xemnas) Though not a new entity like these guys, Diz was still ''different'' from Ansem the Wise. Diz was who he had to become to survive in the nothing and dark relms even his outfit (which seems to hold similar properties to the coats) had to change about him. He also could use coridors of darkness and change his apperance (as Heartless Ansem to Riku in CoM: Re/Re)}} | {{NAB|time=19:15, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=It seems to me we should keep this page up for a similar reason, it's kind like how there are four different Xehenorts (master, Terra, Ansem, Xemnas) Though not a new entity like these guys, Diz was still ''different'' from Ansem the Wise. Diz was who he had to become to survive in the nothing and dark relms even his outfit (which seems to hold similar properties to the coats) had to change about him. He also could use coridors of darkness and change his apperance (as Heartless Ansem to Riku in CoM: Re/Re)}} | ||
{{NAB|time=19:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Although, I just looked over the page again and sense there is so little information maybe we should change it into a Form page perhaps AND we have a detailed DIZ part in the Ansem the Wise page}} | {{NAB|time=19:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Although, I just looked over the page again and sense there is so little information maybe we should change it into a Form page perhaps AND we have a detailed DIZ part in the Ansem the Wise page}} | ||
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</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
He disguised himself with the power of darkness, but I don't think that counts as "changing his nature". --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 03:01, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | He disguised himself with the power of darkness, but I don't think that counts as "changing his nature". --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 03:01, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Wow, NAB, you don't listen at all. | |||
:I am ''not'' saying that DiZ doesn't have magical powers. I am saying that ''there is no evidence that Ansem does not have the same magical powers''. For example, Sora's Wisdom Form has abilities that Final Form does not, and vice versa. They have separate magical natures. The same goes with his Merman Form and Lion Form. For Ansem, however, the only difference that we know of is that he takes the bandages off his face. Same clothes, and as far as we know, same abilities. We only want to have distinct pages if the character is distinct - for example, while Roxas is a form of Sora, he is a distinct being. '''There is no evidence whatsoever that DiZ is a distinct being from Ansem the Wise'''.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 03:16, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{NAB|time=04:32, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=I listen, you just didn't say anything of substance. If you (well Neumannz realy, good on ya mate) would have brought up evidence like that earlier, than we would have gotten farther along with this converstation in less space on the wall. | |||
I was the one to prepose a Form (Valor, Wisdom, Anti, Dark, Justice, Lion, X's Heartless, ect...engh) page in the first place for Diz back in my second post, but sense you just went along with the "they are one" argument I thought I'd just let you establish a side and I'll back up the other before we go compromising as it useually works out best that way. | |||
I don't know the techical shit, I'll leave that to you, but my vote is we make DIZ (as preposed above) both a subsection of the Ansem the Wise article, but we should also make a more detailed Form Article on the subject because of the major differences and story signifigance (just like X's Heartless was for Riku and all the animal/world forms are to the Party)}} | |||
But there '''is''' no major difference. It's an alias and a disguise, but it's not a different form. He doesn't have new abilities, behaviors, or motivations. He isn't being possessed. Granted, it is a transformation, but it is only a cosmetic one. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 04:48, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{NAB|time=05:00, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=Wait now, you're the one who just showed me the bit of the report that said when he got this new identity he also obtained the power of darkness. I think we're on the same page here, jus' different paragraphs. I guess if I can't keep you from merging the two (which I still beleive to be seperate) can I at least implore that we put as detailed a subsection as we can on the subject, his transformation's Story-significance warrents that}}-- | |||
::''"If you (well Neumannz realy, good on ya mate) would have brought up evidence like that earlier, than we would have gotten farther along with this converstation in less space on the wall."'' | |||
:::Are you serious? Neumannz and me have been repeating the same thing since the beginning. Neumannz was even quoting me, for goodness sake. | |||
:::Once we merge, there will still be no point in a "DiZ" subsection. DiZ '''''is''''' Ansem, I can't stress that enough. Any coverage on "DiZ" would simply be Ansem's plot synopsis between BBS and the end of KHII -- frankly, that's how the article already covers it.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:30, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=05:36, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=What I mean is that he gained the power of darkness ''first'', and ''then'' he took on the persona of DIZ.}} | |||
{{KrytenKoro|Neumannz, looking at this page, do you think it satisfactorily covers DiZ's powers over darkness (plot-wise)? If not, what needs to be added?}} | |||
You mean '''Ansem the Wise'''? Well, lessee... | |||
<blockquote>For some time, Ansem remained in the empty realm, constantly writing in order to maintain his sanity. Here, he also discarded his old, stolen name, and became DiZ ("Darkness in Zero"). Eventually, he found a way to escape when he gained the power of darkness, though he did not intend to let himself be consumed by it like his apprentices. With his new found powers, DiZ also garbed himself in a red robe and a mask made of red bandages in order to fully conceal his real identity.</blockquote> | |||
Well, if I remember correctly, Ansem's disguise involved using darkness to change his complexion and hide his beard (was it from an interview?) as opposed to just the bandages. At the very least, the S.A. Report indicates he used darkness. That should be indicated more clearly, I think. | |||
Other than that, I think the "transformation" into DiZ is covered well enough. The rest of the article details what he did as DiZ, so I think it's fine. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 06:04, April 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=06:07, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=Oh, right, I forgot the Abilities section. That seems to be thorough enough.}} | |||
I think DiZ deserves his own page because as Docyx states he is his own character in his own right and Riku-Ansem has its own page and it is just a different version of Riku as is DiZ a different version of Ansem. --[[User:ZexionFan321|ZexionFan321]] 02:29, May 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
{{neumannz|time=02:33, May 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=Did you read the whole conversation? DiZ is not his own character in his own right, and Riku-Ansem has different abilities. That's what makes one a form and the other not.}} | |||
:Neumannz, did I miss anything in the merge?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:00, May 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
It's looks like you grabbed everything. It could use a bit of proofreading (tenses and the like), but that's not because of the merge. Looks like a smooth merge to me. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 04:21, May 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
== his name == | == his name == | ||
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Yes, come to think of it, alot of Kingdom Hearts characters have strange names. Demyx? Xaldin? Ansem? Xehanort? I certainitly couldn't come up with 15 names with an X in them. ([[User:Bananaphone1996|Bananaphone1996]] 00:07, April 15, 2010 (UTC)) | Yes, come to think of it, alot of Kingdom Hearts characters have strange names. Demyx? Xaldin? Ansem? Xehanort? I certainitly couldn't come up with 15 names with an X in them. ([[User:Bananaphone1996|Bananaphone1996]] 00:07, April 15, 2010 (UTC)) | ||
== change == | |||
can you change the realm of nothingness to darkness because ansem told aqua he's been there before during blank points. | |||
He wasn't talking about after the machine exploded. The only time he's ever been known to have been in the RoN is after Xehanort banished him. He said he wandered around there for a while.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}01:47, November 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:Right, but he's calling that the realm of darkness. Everything he uses to describe it fits how Aqua describes it, as well - "realm of nothingness" is just a metaphor or poetic phrase, not an actual term.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 06:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC) | |||
== change == | |||
can you change the last part of blank points section to the lives he managed to ruin instead of "cripped" | |||
== Re:coded == | |||
I'm unsure of if it should be noted here as an appearance, but from a vid of Re:coded I've seen, Namine makes reference to DiZ in the game's ending, and tells the Data-Sora he "hid" something inside the regular Sora during his sleep but wouldn't tell her what, saying he was "clearing his conscience." It's visible at 43:00 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1R2-UeMXPY here]. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Doreiku]][[User talk:Drake Clawfang|Kuroofangu]] 05:03, February 5, 2011 (UTC) | |||
Ansem himself mentions he "hid" his research within Sora to "Clear his conscience" in Blank Points. Evnyofdeath 05:16, February 5, 2011 (UTC) | |||
:Ah. Apologies, I'd not seen the English version of the vid. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Doreiku]][[User talk:Drake Clawfang|Kuroofangu]] 05:28, February 5, 2011 (UTC) | |||
== No Combat Abilities? == | |||
Doesn't he mimic Xehanort's Heartless enough for a small fight with Riku? Related, isn't he the one who gives Riku Dark Mode?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] ([[User talk:Neo Bahamut|talk]]) 01:44, 19 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
:I believe so, but doesn't that amount to using illusions?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:07, 19 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
== The Passing of Christopher Lee == | |||
The Death of Christopher Lee was announced today. He died on June 7, 2015. --[[User:Doggieboy9|Doggieboy9]] ([[User talk:Doggieboy9|talk]]) 18:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
I just read the article on ANN! T _ T May he RIP.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:52, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
Shouldn't his passing be mentioned in the article somewhere? I mean, the passing of several other well known actors, like Leonard Nimoy for Xehanort and Wayne Allwine for Mickey, have been noted on their respective pages. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 05:00, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
Hmm, sure, I don't see the problem with it. Although Burton did take over the whole even before his passing, it doesn't change the fact Lee voiced Ansem for a time. Any objections from anyone else?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:14, 2 July 2015 (UTC) | |||
==DDD Riku== | |||
In DDD, when Riku was inside of Sora's dreams/Sora's heart, he met up with a Data-Ansem the Wise. Why did he ask Riku what his name was? Why doesn't he recognize Riku? Don't they know each other? --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 06:36, 7 May 2016 (UTC) | |||
:This was an allusion to the prologue scene in Kingdom Hearts II where Ansem the Wise asks the same question and Riku answers "Ansem" (because he looks like Ansem SoD). In a way this was kind of an inside joke, or maybe even a small test to see if Riku thinks he really is Riku this time around, it also shows how he grew as a character. --[[Special:Contributions/217.51.224.130|217.51.224.130]] 06:48, 7 May 2016 (UTC) | |||
::Ah, okay. I had completely forgot about that. Thanks --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 07:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC) | |||
== Main image == | |||
Can we use the KH2 labcoat image, as it's the last form he takes in KH3? Also, can we in general avoid using black coat images as main images, where possible?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:58, 4 June 2019 (UTC) | |||