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Talk:Dark Riku: Difference between revisions
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:::Considering Xion was created before the Riku Replica in Castle Oblivion, I can't agree that she's what Marluxia is referring to here. I can see why you might think that, but can't agree. - [[User:Truthful-Sentiment|Truthful-Sentiment]] ([[User talk:Truthful-Sentiment|talk]]) 10:40, 27 February 2019 (UTC) | :::Considering Xion was created before the Riku Replica in Castle Oblivion, I can't agree that she's what Marluxia is referring to here. I can see why you might think that, but can't agree. - [[User:Truthful-Sentiment|Truthful-Sentiment]] ([[User talk:Truthful-Sentiment|talk]]) 10:40, 27 February 2019 (UTC) | ||
::::''"In my work on the Replica Program for the Organization, I produced some twenty vessels. Most of the early results were failures, not one of them granted a number. The first success to emerge from that early lot was the Riku replica. '''Subsequently''', Xion (No. i) was essentially indistinguishable from a natural human, though she became unstable due to the influence of others."'' | ::::''"In my work on the Replica Program for the Organization, I produced some twenty vessels. Most of the early results were failures, not one of them granted a number. The first success to emerge from that early lot was the Riku replica. '''Subsequently''', Xion (No. i) was essentially indistinguishable from a natural human, though she became unstable due to the influence of others."'' | ||
::::Marluxia is talking about Xion. That's not me "thinking that", that's what the game makes absolutely clear. I'm unclear where you got the idea that Xion was created ''after'' Riku Replica, as even in Days Vexen states she is his finest Replica, and the first one ''to gain number status''.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:08, 27 February 2019 (UTC) | ::::Marluxia is talking about Xion. That's not me "thinking that", that's what the game makes absolutely clear. I'm unclear where you got the idea that Xion was created <s>''after''</s>''before'' Riku Replica, as even in Days Vexen states she is his finest Replica, and the first one ''to gain number status''.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:08, 27 February 2019 (UTC) | ||
:::::I actually said that Xion was created ''before'', not after. I still feel inclined to think that Marluxia was referring to a new replica rather than Xion, as it seems like an odd way to refer to her in this context. I don't think it's absolutely clear, if something can be interpreted two different ways. Either way, I'm sorry if I came off as rude; I had no intention of doing so. - [[User:Truthful-Sentiment|Truthful-Sentiment]] ([[User talk:Truthful-Sentiment|talk]]) 22:50, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | :::::I actually said that Xion was created ''before'', not after. I still feel inclined to think that Marluxia was referring to a new replica rather than Xion, as it seems like an odd way to refer to her in this context. I don't think it's absolutely clear, if something can be interpreted two different ways. Either way, I'm sorry if I came off as rude; I had no intention of doing so. - [[User:Truthful-Sentiment|Truthful-Sentiment]] ([[User talk:Truthful-Sentiment|talk]]) 22:50, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
::::::Sorry, I mistyped that. I'm unsure where you got the idea that Xion was created before Riku Replica.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:05, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
Ultimania confirms that it is the time-traveling heart of the Riku Replica from after it was first made, in a new body. Whether that makes it a new being entirely or not is up to interpretation, I guess. Given that it is continually called Dark Riku in all material, including the game and the Ultimania, I'd say it's considered a separate being, but we should be upfront that it is a time traveling heart of the Replica, not of Riku. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 18:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | Ultimania confirms that it is the time-traveling heart of the Riku Replica from after it was first made, in a new body. Whether that makes it a new being entirely or not is up to interpretation, I guess. Given that it is continually called Dark Riku in all material, including the game and the Ultimania, I'd say it's considered a separate being, but we should be upfront that it is a time traveling heart of the Replica, not of Riku. {{User:LightRoxas/Sig}} 18:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC) | ||
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::(On a side note, this page does use "人間" (human) instead of Nobody for Master Xehanort's state. That still presents problems for all the animals, constructs, etc. | ::(On a side note, this page does use "人間" (human) instead of Nobody for Master Xehanort's state. That still presents problems for all the animals, constructs, etc. | ||
::On another side note, this page species that Terra-Xehanort is "The body of Terra containing the heart of the Terra-Xehanort from the past."{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | ::On another side note, this page species that Terra-Xehanort is "The body of Terra containing the heart of the Terra-Xehanort from the past."{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
:::On a third | :::On a third side note (also, question marks are per the text): | ||
*Master Xehanort (destroyed: death (消滅 (昇天))) | *Master Xehanort (destroyed: death (消滅 (昇天))) | ||
*Young Xehanort (destroyed: heart returned to the past) | *Young Xehanort (destroyed: heart returned to the past) | ||
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*Vexen (returned to human without being defeated and still alive) | *Vexen (returned to human without being defeated and still alive) | ||
*Saix (returned to human and still alive) | *Saix (returned to human and still alive) | ||
*Demyx (returned to human and still alive?) | *Demyx (returned to human and still alive(?)) | ||
*Luxord (returned to human and still alive?) | *Luxord (returned to human and still alive(?)) | ||
*Marluxia (returned to human and still alive?) | *Marluxia (returned to human and still alive(?)) | ||
*Larxene (returned to human and still alive?) | *Larxene (returned to human and still alive(?)) | ||
*Dark Riku: ''something about being destroyed by replica and namine does something'' (too many kanji for me to bother right now) | *Dark Riku: ''something about being destroyed by replica and namine does something'' (too many kanji for me to bother right now) | ||
*Xion: ''something about sora's heart and being touched by the light'' (too many kanji for me to bother right now) | *Xion: ''something about sora's heart and being touched by the light'' (too many kanji for me to bother right now) | ||
::I think it's easier if we split characters if they are around at the same time. Young Xehanort and Master Xehanort are both around at the same time in KH3, so we split them. Same with Riku Replica and Dark Riku. KH3 Ansem and KH1 Ansem are never around at the same time, so we don't split them. Same for Xemnas, Xion, and Vanitas. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 14:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::Wouldn't Xion still exist, though? She had her true heart in Sora, and her fake heart in the Replica.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:02, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::: I'm not sure. Her heart was in Sora the entire time, but she doesn't appear until she takes over the replica body. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 15:22, 4 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
==Name== | ==Name== | ||
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:::::Oi, works for me.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:15, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | :::::Oi, works for me.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:15, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
::::::I don't think he was named Dark Riku to make you think he was possessed Riku, because the Japanese names are different. Dark Riku is called ダーク・リク in KH3. Possessed Dark Riku is called 闇の力をまとったリク in KHUX, and 闇リク in Recoded's Avatar Menu. And since Dark Riku is the only official name we have, and we don't have a separate page for possessed Riku, I say we keep this page as Dark Riku, and have a youmay to the possessed Riku. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:10, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | ::::::I don't think he was named Dark Riku to make you think he was possessed Riku, because the Japanese names are different. Dark Riku is called ダーク・リク in KH3. Possessed Dark Riku is called 闇の力をまとったリク in KHUX, and 闇リク in Recoded's Avatar Menu. And since Dark Riku is the only official name we have, and we don't have a separate page for possessed Riku, I say we keep this page as Dark Riku, and have a youmay to the possessed Riku. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:10, 1 March 2019 (UTC) | ||
==Merge with Riku Replica page== | |||
Shouldn't this page be merged with the Riku Replica page? They're the same character, just in different vessels. Having this be a separate page would be like making separate pages for the time traveling versions of Xemnas and Ansem. I understand the argument of the Gummiphone/Journal and Ultimania treating him as a separate character to Riku Replica, but they also treat Young Xehanort as a separate character to Master Xehanort. I think a good idea would be to treat the Riku Replica page the same as how the Xehanort page is treated: have two separate tabs, one for Riku Replica and one for Dark Riku, just like how the Xehanort page has two tabs for Master Xehanort and Young Xehanort. Anyone agree? --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 18:20, 6 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
::We are discussing splitting the MX and YX pages. I am against merging Dark Riku and Riku Replica, because they essentially ''are'' different characters. This article is about a brand-new replica that contains the heart of a brainwashed Repliku. It is a new person. Meanwhile, the original Repliku is one who goes through and grows past this stage in his personal history. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 18:22, 6 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::Oy, I forgot suites were a thing. If we split Replica and Dark, we should DEFINITELY suite them. Xehanort too.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:36, 7 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
::::How does him being brainwashed make him a different character? He was brainwashed in the beginning of Chain of Memories too. Dark Riku is the heart of Riku Replica from when he was brainwashed in the beginning of Chain of Memories put within a Replica. It's no different from how Xemnas and Ansem were brought to the present-day. They are the hearts of Xemnas and Ansem from the past put within Replicas. Just like Dark Riku. It's literally no different. --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 12:39, 7 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::The difference is that we have 1 Ansem and 1 Xemnas, but for Dark Riku and Riku Replica, both exist in the same time, and they are treated as different characters--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.173|93.150.192.173]] 12:49, 7 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
:::::It's technically another incarnation of the same character. Treated as a separate character in the games, which we technically should honor here in '''ALL''' cases, if you ask me. We don't treat Ansem and Xemnas's replica bodies as new characters because the games don't. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 17:59, 7 March 2019 (UTC) | |||
== Dark Riku, before Xehanort placed his heart inside him. == | |||
How exactly is this possible? I thought only versions of Xehanort could be brought into the future by him. For that matter, how did he grab Dark Riku in the first place? Did he use Marluxia and Larxene as the conduits?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC) | |||
== Dark Riku in KH3 == | |||
Do we have any evidence as to which version of Repliku Dark Riku is? And by that I mean, is he Repliku (from the past) pre or post brainwashing? Here's his KH3 Ultimania page, if anyone wants to translate it: https://i.imgur.com/PNJm98W.png --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 05:59, 3 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
:That page says he "appeared as if Riku returned from the time he was controlled by Ansem, Seeker of Darkness". In the Secret section, it is said he has Riku-Replica's heart, not Riku's, but it doesn't mention when the heart was taken. The [[Real Organization XIII]] page does mention it was post brainwashing, but I can't find the source for that claim. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:56, 3 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
::I guess the fact that he says he's the 'real one' after being defeated points to that? Because pre-brainwashed Riku didn't care if he was the original or not, IIRC. --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 02:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
::: Okay, well, I added it to his page, but after reading through Dark Riku's quotes, I'm not so sure again. With how aggressive and mean he is, he sounds more like pre-brainwashing Repliku. I don't remember post-brainwashing Repliku being as harsh. --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 19:19, 6 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::If it's not certain, it's better to remove it. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:12, 6 February 2023 (UTC) | |||