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User talk:Webber22: Difference between revisions
→"Now, is this not the smart and rational thing to do at this point?"
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Not really, no. Not once did you make even the semblance of addressing that the incident was not ideal, instead derailing into pure whataboutery and ad hominems (and not even against NS). You may choose to view it as "being asked to apologize for something you didn't do", when we had actually agreed we just wanted you to agree that the incident was obviously not part of an ideal world and that we should find a way to make sure it did not happen again. As long as you want to talk about "magical audacity" -- it's part of the site rules the community agreed to, and it's a process ''I myself'' have contritely submitted to for far lesser infractions. | Not really, no. Not once did you make even the semblance of addressing that the incident was not ideal, instead derailing into pure whataboutery and ad hominems (and not even against NS). You may choose to view it as "being asked to apologize for something you didn't do", when we had actually agreed we just wanted you to agree that the incident was obviously not part of an ideal world and that we should find a way to make sure it did not happen again. As long as you want to talk about "magical audacity" -- it's part of the site rules the community agreed to, and it's a process ''I myself'' have contritely submitted to for far lesser infractions. | ||
I hope you can eventually be honest and stop pretending your overt, non-constructive and non-wiki-related tirade against Ninja was an attack on her. It's very unimpressive that you continue to try to paint it as perfectly friendly "taps on the shoulder asking what time it is" -- you know damn well you were trying to hurt her feelings, and you know damn well you didn't have even the barest shred of "this must be done to get articles written" to justify it. I don't really care whether you feel shame or seek atonement, and I think I made that clear in the discussion - I care that you're grown up enough to concede that the behavior should not happen again, and focus on de-escalating instead of constantly getting into pissing contests. | I hope you can eventually be honest and stop pretending your overt, non-constructive and non-wiki-related tirade against Ninja was not an attack on her. It's very unimpressive that you continue to try to paint it as perfectly friendly "taps on the shoulder asking what time it is" -- you know damn well you were trying to hurt her feelings, and you know damn well you didn't have even the barest shred of "this must be done to get articles written" to justify it. I don't really care whether you feel shame or seek atonement, and I think I made that clear in the discussion - I care that you're grown up enough to concede that the behavior should not happen again, and focus on de-escalating instead of constantly getting into pissing contests. | ||
"Smart and rational" thing would be, at the bare minimum, proposing a way to keep the incident from happening again, not devolving into bizarre insults and glorifying the incident as some kind of last stand against tyranny. I'm not going to even try to suggest that it would still work at this point -- while I'm committed to always extending new chances to someone who makes the meanest attempt at compromise, you may very well have burned your bridges with the rest of the community. I dunno. We'll see or we won't, but if there ''is'' a way forward, it would be absolutely contingent on you at least admitting there is an issue in the first place.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | "Smart and rational" thing would be, at the bare minimum, proposing a way to keep the incident from happening again, not devolving into bizarre insults and glorifying the incident as some kind of last stand against tyranny. I'm not going to even try to suggest that it would still work at this point -- while I'm committed to always extending new chances to someone who makes the meanest attempt at compromise, you may very well have burned your bridges with the rest of the community. I dunno. We'll see or we won't, but if there ''is'' a way forward, it would be absolutely contingent on you at least admitting there is an issue in the first place.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
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::::You clearly have something against me that GOES BEYOND the KHWiki. You seem to know who I am, even using my real name as if we're familiars, which we're not. Quite frankly, that isn't very fair, and just making things a lot worse for you. I'm asking you, politely, to please address whatever issues you have.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 18:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | ::::You clearly have something against me that GOES BEYOND the KHWiki. You seem to know who I am, even using my real name as if we're familiars, which we're not. Quite frankly, that isn't very fair, and just making things a lot worse for you. I'm asking you, politely, to please address whatever issues you have.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 18:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
:::::I have an intense dislike for you stemming all the way back to KH-Vids. From when you tried to bamboozle the community into becoming a moderator to trying to pin the blame on one of my moderators that almost got us into legal trouble with another site. That's nothing to say of the fact that you practically started a war with the Gamefaqs community ''over literally nothing''. Past that, we reach into personal issues territory: You over-reach yourself, present yourself as more important than everyone else, immediately go on the hostile and offensive the moment something bothers you, and you have a penchant for attracting drama more than anyone else here. Again, if this was just between you and me, it'd be one thing - ''you have a past history even fuzzier than my own''. That's nothing to say of the fact than even here...some people ''just don't like you'' for your incredibly bossy attitude and unfriendly demeanor. Like I said, the IRC talks were illuminating. With that, we're done here. Unless you can turn a 180, then a 360 and maybe even a 720 into the fifth dimension, I'm not about to start liking you or even respecting you. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 19:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | :::::I have an intense dislike for you stemming all the way back to KH-Vids. From when you tried to bamboozle the community into becoming a moderator to trying to pin the blame on one of my moderators that almost got us into legal trouble with another site. That's nothing to say of the fact that you practically started a war with the Gamefaqs community ''over literally nothing''. Past that, we reach into personal issues territory: You over-reach yourself, present yourself as more important than everyone else, immediately go on the hostile and offensive the moment something bothers you, and you have a penchant for attracting drama more than anyone else here. Again, if this was just between you and me, it'd be one thing - ''you have a past history even fuzzier than my own''. That's nothing to say of the fact than even here...some people ''just don't like you'' for your incredibly bossy attitude and unfriendly demeanor. Like I said, the IRC talks were illuminating. With that, we're done here. Unless you can turn a 180, then a 360 and maybe even a 720 into the fifth dimension, I'm not about to start liking you or even respecting you. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 19:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
:"I'm not seeing threats on every corner..." -- you directly accused me of trying to silence you when the only action I've taken in this incident has been the exact opposite. You are, objectively, seeing conspirators where there are none, and claiming to be abused when you have been given leniency. | :"I'm not seeing threats on every corner..." -- you directly accused me of trying to silence you when the only action I've taken in this incident has been the exact opposite. You are, objectively, seeing conspirators where there are none, and claiming to be abused when you have been given leniency. Calm the hell down, and focus on deescalation rather than sniffing out nogoodniks. | ||
:''Do not'' use someone's RL name on the wiki. You know damn well that isn't kosher. | :''Do not'' use someone's RL name on the wiki. You know damn well that isn't kosher. | ||
:" If you think my past transgressions - PAST - call for me getting banned on here," -- No, I think your steadfast refusal to accept that this kind of shit ''needs to not happen again'' calls for being banned -- so far you have not said anything even ''vaguely similar'' to "I don't think I messed up, but I won't do this again" -- instead, you've been defiantly proud about it and engaging in ''further'' mudslinging. | :" If you think my past transgressions - PAST - call for me getting banned on here," -- No, I think your steadfast refusal to accept that this kind of shit ''needs to not happen again'' calls for being banned -- so far you have not said anything even ''vaguely similar'' to "I don't think I messed up, but I won't do this again" -- instead, you've been defiantly proud about it and engaging in ''further'' mudslinging. This shit needs to ''not happen again'', and in the absence of any hint of intent to stop from you, banning is the only solution. | ||
:"all I did in retaliation was a little bit of snark and alluded to her very colorful history." bull-fucking-shit. You "alluded" nothing, you directly started mudslinging and causing drama about shit ''not related to the wiki'', and the incident that got her to ask you what the issue was in the first place was you casting aspersions about her ''completely hypothetical actions'' in a completely unrelated discussion. Your every response to her has been to escalate and bring in ''more'' drama, not less. | :"all I did in retaliation was a little bit of snark and alluded to her very colorful history." bull-fucking-shit. You "alluded" nothing, you directly started mudslinging and causing drama about shit ''not related to the wiki'', and the incident that got her to ask you what the issue was in the first place was you casting aspersions about her ''completely hypothetical actions'' in a completely unrelated discussion. Your every response to her has been to escalate and bring in ''more'' drama, not less. ''That'' is the issue being addressed, not whether you like or respect Ninja. Unless she is obstructing the project or using the project as a vehicle for harassment, any tiffs the two of you may have off-wiki are of absolutely no consequence to the wiki. | ||
:" A proposition from me that this will never happen again. Happily, it's extremely easy and doable - not even remotely irrational at that. I don't want her talking to me. I don't want her even talking about me. If I somehow upset someone over something in the future, I don't want her confronting and judging me - someone else can do that." - Try again, without completely ousting all responsibility and blame on Ninja, and with more recognizance that this whole thing started with you [http://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATheFifteenthMember&diff=700964&oldid=700839 casting aspersions in a topic that Ninja was not even remotely involved in]. The solution you've proposed would do zilch to prevent that from happening again. An interaction ban is technically doable, if cumbersome, but at the bare minimum it would have to go both ways and not simply be "I get to talk shit about Ninja, and if she says word one in defense she gets in trouble."{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::I'm sorry, what? "From when you tried to bamboozle the community into becoming a moderator to trying to pin the blame on one of my moderators that almost got us into legal trouble with another site." When did I bamboozled anyone? You do know that users are promoted based on elections? KH-Vids? What are you talking about? Provide sources, if you please. I remember the Gamefaqs community. Kryten was there, too, and I already apologized for what happened there. It was a forum where people were trashing the KHWiki, so I got mad and popped in. [http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/943346-kingdom-hearts-358-2-days/52153007?page=4. Here's the link. I do remember Kryten popping in there, too, and I do remember apologizing.] But it wasn't a war. It was a spat, because they were saying mean things, and I made amends by apologizing for it. But so what? It's not a secret; everyone knew about it. Again, I was young then, and apologized. That was 7 years ago. But what does have to do with you, personally? Once again, you're just throwing accusations around and insulting me for no good reason. Everyone has done things in the past they're not proud of, but I learned from mistakes. You, on the other, have not.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 20:40, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:" | ::::Can we seriously please not further indulge in off-wiki drama? Webber's complaint about it does not need to be humored in any way.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
:::::I give you my word regarding the whole "interaction ban" thing. The second I break that word, do as you see fit. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 02:33, 2 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:"You mean | I completely oppose an "interaction ban", it's the most ridiculous idea. The wiki should ''not'' appease the childish behaviour of someone, who is incapable of showing restraint in front of a person he dislikes (for whatever bizarre reason that hatred stems from). If you haven't learnt how to work with people you don't get along with, don't come here. An interaction ban is very impractical, as TSH said, and enforcing something like that would eventually create more drama and an unhappy, tense atmosphere that will drive people away from the wiki. The criteria for you returning to the wiki was a serious resolve to change ''yourself'' to avoid the same mistakes. However, your recent messages have taken away my optimism that you might do this. After a long passage of time, you ''might'' (and I say that without much faith) change your way of thinking. Therefore, I advocate that the ''minimum'' length of the ban should still be a year. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 14:24, 2 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
: | :So you basically advocate a ban based solely on your personal paranoia...--[[Special:Contributions/68.200.71.21|68.200.71.21]] 15:49, 2 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
Screw it. Debating this is doing no one any good. It's exhausting. So all interested parties, just....tell me what you want, and you'll have it. :( I can't get anything done like this. Even the Unchained updates have suffered. I'm swallowing my pride and dignity here. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 02:16, 3 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:As someone who has watched this entire chain of events unfold and stood by watching things play out, I say this: First, you need to apologize to NinjaShiek even if you feel as though you've done nothing wrong. That's what this has been about, a genuine apology. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:12, 3 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
::I can't imagine that's all. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 03:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::Oh it's not. I just figured I'd list them incrementally. You know, baby steps. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:49, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
::::What you need to do, is work on your behavior and make sure this doesn't happen again. You don't have to become friends with everyone, but you should be able to talk to everyone in a normal way. We had already agreed on banning you for one year before this escalated again, but you should be happy if we even allow you back after all this. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 12:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:::::You know what? This isn't fucking worth it. Kissing all of your asses regarding a perceived slight from an over-sensitive and entitled little bitch who you ALL KNOW takes everything insanely seriously, dramatically and personally. A woman who lives and breathes drama and has done nothing but made a mockery of everyone here. And you know that. Denying it is practically accepting the Earth as fucking flat. And you want me to apologize for pointing out the obvious. Grovel over something she ''perceived'' as a slight - as she does fucking everything. And all for what? So I can be banned for a whole year? Man, lucky me. What a golly good deal that is! Sure. Let me go right ahead and get on that. I'll be sure to atone for everything you all think is a sin every second of time spent! Fuck. You. You want to know what your little "agreement" amounts to? What my ban amounts to? This: I'm going to log out. Then, I'm going to switcheroo my IP, create a brand spanking new account, ''then continue doing whatever the fuck I want''. You should be so godamn lucky that "whatever the fuck I want" doesn't constitute trolling, or vandalism, or anything else overall destructive to this wiki. I'm going to continue making improvements that I feel are necessary. I'm going to continue consulting with the rest of the members over what needs tweaking. In short, ''nothing will change''. I'm not even going to give you the privilege of knowing that it's ''me''. So there. I was banned for "intimidating behavior", so I figured I'd actually try and live up to that. Now, what can you all do about my decision? ''Not a godamn thing''. Ban me? Oh goodie - I'll just switch up my IP again. No biggie. You're gonna close new member registration? Well, good luck with that as you'll be defeating the entire fucking purpose of the wiki, ''effectively killing it''. Like I said - be glad that I prefer constructive contributions. I have it completely within me to simply ''ask'' the folks from KHInsider and Gamefaqs to stroll on over here and make your lives ''VERY'' fun. Want to know what? - NinjaSheik -. She's ''that loved'' by the rest of the community. So with that, do whatever the fuck you want. --[[User:Webber22|Webber22]] ([[User talk:Webber22|talk]]) 14:22, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Okay, can an admin make the ban permanant? He's in complete denial about his offences, is still ''continuing'' his aggression, made it perfectly clear he's not interested in changing and for added flavour, he thought it would be cool to intimidate everyone by making threats. It wasn't even an apology we were looking for, it was a recognition for his mistakes. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
:Dude, the fact is, we have rules. If you break 'em, we need to enforce them. As long as you continue to break our rules, you will continue to be banned. However I do hope that when you come back, you will have realized the fault in your actions. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 02:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC) | |||
::He was already perma-banned, but he could still edit his talk page, until now. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 15:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC) | |||