Talk:Ars Arcanum
Latin Grammar?
OK, to you guys who keep inserting the bit about "ars" being feminine and that "arcanum" should be "arcana"... please explain it to me. It seems you're saying "arcanum" is an adjective, but it's certainly being used as a noun here... --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 04:14, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Arcanum is being used as an adjective here. The adjective "arcanum" is being used to describe the noun "ars". To expand, Latin is structured in such a way that an adjective must agree in inflection (ending) with the noun that it describes. There are 7*2 different inflections for each noun (the seven grammatical cases in singular and plural form). Two of these cases are rarely used, so 7 could be 5 here, if you like. For adjectives, there are 7*2*3 different forms of the adjective, the different inflections from above and also each of these inflections in the masculine, feminine and neuter gender. For arcanus (this is the basic masculine form of the adjective), there are two other gender-versions, arcana (feminine) and arcanum (neuter). The plural of each of these is arcani, arcanae and arcana. Note that the neuter plural and the feminine singular share the same ending (however, in classical Latin, as far as I remember, the 'a' at the end of the neuter plural would have been elongated to sound like 'aw'). The noun ars is a feminine noun. It means art (or technique probably works better in the case of Sora's ability) in English. To further add to the confusion, Latin allows one to use an adjective as a noun, so that, say, one could use 'arcanus' to be an adjective meaning 'hidden' but also use it to mean 'the hidden (masculine) thing'. However, in the case of Ars Arcanum, using arcanum as a noun is not really tenable, as then the phrase would mean 'technique hidden thing'. This is like saying 'door chair' - it does not make grammatical sense. I would wager, therefore, that whoever came up with the name of the technique intended Ars Arcanum to mean 'hidden art'. In this case, the only case that makes grammatical sense, arcanum should be feminine => arcana, in order to agree with ars. Does that make sense?
- Here are a few references to demonstrate the information above. Firstly, http://homepage.usask.ca/~jrp638/latin/harriuspotter/HPglossary.pdf is a glossary for the Latin version of Harry Potter. At the end-ish of the second page, you will find the adjective "arcanus, -a, -um". This format refers to its three genders, all in the nominative case (this is superfluous information; case doesn't matter here, because the phrase Ars Arcanum isn't being used in a sentence, so it will be in the nominative case by default). Secondly, http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=ars&ending=, is a dictionary lookup for the word "ars". The 'f' after the "ars -tis" part is to denote that "ars" is indeed feminine. Lastly, Wikipedia's inflection table, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_declension#First_and_second_declension_adjectives, for first and second declension adjectives shows that an adjective like arcanus (one whose masculine, feminine and neuter forms are arcanus, arcana and arcanum respectively) will have the ending, -a, in the nominative feminine version. Again, note that the neuter plural in both the nominative (and accusative) case ends in the same inflection., but that these could never correspond, as adjectives, to "ars", since this noun is feminine. Can I please add my trivia now?
- In fact, the second reference, I've just realised, is superfluous, because you will find 'ars' in the Harry Potter glossary as well as arcanus, -a, -um. (Oh, and the 3f, there, refers to the fact that "ars" belongs to the third declension and is feminine).
- Here are a few references to demonstrate the information above. Firstly, http://homepage.usask.ca/~jrp638/latin/harriuspotter/HPglossary.pdf is a glossary for the Latin version of Harry Potter. At the end-ish of the second page, you will find the adjective "arcanus, -a, -um". This format refers to its three genders, all in the nominative case (this is superfluous information; case doesn't matter here, because the phrase Ars Arcanum isn't being used in a sentence, so it will be in the nominative case by default). Secondly, http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=ars&ending=, is a dictionary lookup for the word "ars". The 'f' after the "ars -tis" part is to denote that "ars" is indeed feminine. Lastly, Wikipedia's inflection table, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_declension#First_and_second_declension_adjectives, for first and second declension adjectives shows that an adjective like arcanus (one whose masculine, feminine and neuter forms are arcanus, arcana and arcanum respectively) will have the ending, -a, in the nominative feminine version. Again, note that the neuter plural in both the nominative (and accusative) case ends in the same inflection., but that these could never correspond, as adjectives, to "ars", since this noun is feminine. Can I please add my trivia now?
Getting it
Where do you get it in Birth by Sleep? Do you have to meld commands or is it found in a chest? --{{subst:User:Secret agent clank/sig}} 07:14, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
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OK thanks --{{subst:User:Secret agent clank/sig}} 05:16, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
Genie in 2.5
Does his version remain named "Final Arcana"?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 21:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
Differences between the link to Bl00dy's video about Revenge Value and the image shown for Ars/Last Arcanum in KHIIFM
BEFORE you just revert my trivia, PLEASE HEAR ME OUT....sorry if I'm sounding like some asshole with no right to speak. Here's the thing, Roxas as many people say outside of the wiki has the generic 12.5 retaliation point value (standard for many KH2 bosses). Bl00dy's video here: http://youtu.be/RV2fM2UtfTU?t=15m40s says that the final Reaction Command strike for Ars is exactly 9.5.
In the image provided by the wiki, Roxas did not instantly retaliate. Reason is that I'm sure you may have noticed the player from the animation gif did not combo Roxas beforehand to trigger any retaliation values. Bl00dy's video showed him actually comboing Roxas at first, thus he landed a few attacks on him that raise targets up to retaliation point normally in addition. (And yes he used a hack with his HP to show the retaliation point).
There, I hope that cleared things up, but if you must revert my edit via my thing being a false claim ("Uh, the gif we have with Roxas getting it by it he didn't retaliate instantly, so shut up"), then by all means do so and sorry for wasting time. I just wanted to get that point across. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 05:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think Ars\Last Arcanum let's you do an instant combo before the enemy retaliates. RikutheBloody 12:52, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- Well here's the thing, Roxas retaliated instantly when it reached the counterattack point as he was still in the air for a bit in Bl00dy's video, but when he landed in the animation gif, he didn't counter. It's different from hitting someone with Blizzard to keep them on ground as opposed to Ars' finisher cause the latter still sends them up into the air. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 03:02, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
"translated as Final Arcana"
Aren't we counting the base KH2 Genie mention?"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 20:49, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
