Talk:Kingdom Hearts II

Alcohol?
--SquareEnixRocks 02:50, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Tagline?
Was the tagline for KH II ever determined or is it even needed? The other KH games' taglines come from the back of the video game box. Would this be the same for KH II? If so it says, "The story is not over."

Same thing for Re:CoM. It says "Memory is the key." Thanks!-- Xion 4  ever  04:39, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II III
How could CoM be a side story? It plays a vital part in the main storyline and without it, KH2 wouldn't make sense.--KRoNoS 22:11, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense.--KRoNoS 14:07, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Darker than it's two proceeders.
At the same time, though, the first Kingdom Hearts didn't have multiple human-like characters dying, the near-death of Goofy, or villains whose sadism was a weapon they aimed at the same heart the protagonist stabbed. And don't get me started about all that's in Port Royal.

I say that we keep that note, but I will let the main admins decide. Tamroc7 23:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

hey dont forget the hydra japanese version green blood ring a bell.65.32.75.73 13:54, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II
Donc, je viens de regarder autour de la page KH (de série) et j'ai décidé de lire à propos de KH II mais j'ai lu le KH HD 1.5 ReMIX et KH HD pages 2.5 Remix ainsi récemment, de toute façon, j'ai remarqué que sur les pages de remixer dit 1,5 et 2,5 alors montre stylisée comme I.5 et II.5. Pour arriver à mon point (on m'a dit que je suis de longue haleine désolé), je me demande pourquoi sur la page KH II, il n'est pas Kingdom Hearts 2 alors stylisés comme II. Je me demandais... 01:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

English please. This is not the French wiki. 12:41, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Rough translation courtesy of Google translate: "So I just look around the page KH (standard) and I decided to read about KH II but I read the ReMIX HD 1.5 and 2.5 pages KH HD Remix and KH recently, anyway, I noticed that on the pages of said remix 1.5 and 2.5 then shows stylized as I.5 and II.5. To get to my point (I was told that I'm sorry lengthy), I wonder why the KH II page, it is not Kingdom Hearts 2 so stylized as II. I was wondering..." If I'm understanding it correctly, he's wondering why the title of this page is "Kingdom Hearts II" while 1.5 and 2.5 aren't I.5 and II.5, respectively. -- 16:56, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, because the true names for HD remixes are 1.5 and 2.5, not I.5 and II.5. These are confirmed by their Japanese names. While KH2 in Japanese is written as "II" and not "2". 17:03, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

An in-depth boss explanation that cannot be included in the main gameplay section
This here, is an in-depth explanation to the overall bosses of KHII and KHIIFM alike. The bosses in this game are very notable for their mechanics that many expert players go in-depth with and exploit. As such, I'll be explaining and throwing out the terms used for them and how they work. Note that this mainly applies to several if not all the humanoid bosses, and each one is rather unique in their behavior. Also, more technical terms will be used aside from fan-speak terms:


 * Retaliation/Counter Point:
 * This is the point where the boss is meant to immediately counter with a set attack in their arsenal. There is the normal counter, where they simply recover from flinching and go right into an attack of a varied choice. However, the most common type of retaliation point is the forceful counter, akin to the offensive reprisal commands as of KHII. This is where the boss will instantly break out with a set attack and will often do so if they are launched into the air, which is fairly common. Their forceful counter attacks may not be very different from some of the usual attacks themselves, so depending on the boss, players can cause them to continuously forcefully counter in order to loop their patterns. However, each boss is fairly unique in their counter attacks, and they may change up their patterns depending on their phases. This system is primarily meant to prevent Sora from comboing bosses to death due to the new hitstun mechanics.


 * Retaliation Value, AKA "Revenge Value":
 * Revenge Value is a VERY common fan-speak term, but I'm here trying (yeah I doubt I am cause someone might pop up to refute me) to be technical here (I pray). This notes towards the values each attack landed on a boss that will raise an invisible counter that causes them to reach Retaliation Point. Via most hard tables that can be found through google, the most common value for many bosses is 12.5. Each attack has their own value in raising up to the counter point, with most normal attacks being around 1, and most finishers being around 3 (Explosion is around 4 or 5, so there's a lot risk with that finisher). Thus, many expert players tend to try and limit themselves to certain abilities only in order to keep track of the Retaliation Value on the bosses they're fighting so they can know when they reach counter point. Some abilities, like the infamous Ars Arcanum in KHIIFM, has 0 value on all blows save for the final reaction command which has 9.5 (Sora's solo Trinity Limit has 0 RV on ALL hits of the attack), so abilities like that are quite good at racking up so much damage in a large loop of hits without fear of reaching retaliation point. The RV "gauge" for most bosses may or may not start at a certain number, but once they reach their counter point (normal or forced), the invisible gauge will reset back to 0 each time. There are some mod emulator hacks that can allow you to view the Retaliation Value in the form of Sora's HP staying low and filling up as he raises the value, via one of Bl00dyBizkitz's videos. And via Bl00dyBizkitz, he states that all Data Replica bosses have their invisible RV gauge filled at 9.5 at the start of the battle, and in most normal conditions, only causing a counter point would lower the gauge let alone reset it.


 * Desperation Move:
 * This is when the screen turns dark via the background and the boss seems to do some devastating power up or attack of some sort. These are moves that only occur when they reach a low amount of health, and it all varies for each boss. Of course, they all HURT very badly, so if on Proud or Critical Mode DM's can really be nasty enough to warrant the use of invincible bypasses of any sort. Some of the most common ways to avoid most DM's is to use Donald's Comet/Fantasia limit and delay it so that you may not only move around freely, but also stay invincible for a long amount of time. However, there ARE some DM's that have more unique ways of being avoided, and again, this HEAVILY varies for each boss. Some bosses, like Absent Silhouette Larxene, may have more than one DM.


 * Invincibility Point, AKA HP Barrier:
 * HP Barrier is another fan-speak team, and it often goes hand-in-hand with the DM. Some bosses usually will not receive any damage and will turn invincible when their HP hits a certain point, and this often is a signal for one of their next phases in the fight. This is similar to a retaliation point, but the boss usually will not counter in the middle of being knocked back/up, and instead as said, will become invincible, and do something that will signal their upcoming phase. For some bosses, like Vexen's Data Replica version, this will often be welcoming with an instant DM activation, so be warned as the Invincibility Point varies for each boss. Final Xemnas also has a very well-known Invincibility Point during the very final portion where you're blocking his massive laser array.

That's all for now. This is here just for some in-depth stuff that's a bit moer informally explained and just in case anyone else is very confused by the fan-speak terms they use, and how most of the bosses work in most KHII/KHIIFM expert players' favors. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 21:52, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Besides "Invincibility Point" (which can be described in each bosses' game subpage) I think each of these terms qualifies for its own page (like Tech Points for example) to explain the gameplay mechanics behind it. Most of our KHII templates and boss sections stem from the Bradygames guide, which is very basic to put it nicely. The Ultimanias probably feature more indepth information regarding those mechanics and may even provide some better terms to make them at least semi-official. I could scan these pages if anyone is interested. -- 22:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * For the record, I really don't think Tech Points should be its own page. -- 02:06, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What would you propose? My opinion is that if we talk about or show something on the enemy pages, that is not self-explaining, we have to explain it somewhere else.
 * Currently we have some situations where this is solved less than ideal, for example we have several references to "Shop Level" but don't explain anywhere what this actually is and how it rises. Sometimes we circumvent these terms by just showing the result (most of the enemy template is designed to do that). On the other hand we have dedicated pages that explain how fire resistance works. If we want to expand the boss battle sections by talking about the more underlying gameplay mechanics, they have to appear somewhere as terms themselves. This is all giving the case that we really want to do that, because someone would have to write all this stuff. -- 07:22, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Shop Level should be covered at Moogle Shop if it isn't already -- and there's also the Mirage Arena shop level.
 * For Tech Points, and then all this stuff, I would definitely suggest having a "Combat System" page of some sort, covering the basic stuff like how the AI works in general, how combo finishers are, basically anything that's not a named command. 16:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I expected that combo finishers would be a part of Attack. -- 18:45, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * From what others have told me, they really shouldn't actually be their own pages since for one thing, they're mainly fan-derived terms. It's not like Square Enix themselves actually put up a list of these mechanics. These more likely came from players who have a ton of time on their hands. And because it's fan-derived, admins won't tolerate these topics being on the actual pages themselves for various reasons, let alone have them as their own pages. There is a reason why this will be mainly stuck to the discussion page only. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 20:38, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Please be sure to comment at the end of sections, not smack in the middle. It makes it hard to keep the chronological flow of the conversation. In addition, if this was purely notes, may I direct you to Ansem's Computer, our "Notes" forums. You should also note that Shard, who suggested this be a full page in someway, is an admin himself, so, yeah...

As to the actual argument made here, I side with Shard in that we should have some sort of place to explain this technical info. However, it'll definitely be tricky to explain it using what basically amount to a bunch of fan-made terms. "Fire Resistance", "Defense", "Tech Points", and the such are all either in the official Ultimanias, the game guides (like the Bradygames Guide Shard noted), or in-game (mostly in-game, I believe). However, I truly feel this kinda information would do useful somewhere, whether as a full article, or in the Ansem's Computer forums as notes (in which I would move that the forums be made more prominent in someway). Something else we could do is bake them into Template:Enemy, like a bunch of other technical game data that, while is real, doesn't (I believe) exist explicitly in-game or in any official materials. 21:32, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not just grab the description of these moves from the Ultimanias, which list every boss's attacks? 22:19, 20 April 2015 (UTC)