Talk:An Oath to Return

Name of the ending
Something interesting to note: In Theater Mode, the secret ending is titled "Secret Ending: Falsus Rex", which of course translates to "false king" - not "An Oath to Return." Worth a mention somewhere on the page? --Samoa Joe (talk) 17:54, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The secret ending menu option is called that, but there are multiple scenes in there. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to beat it yet, so I can't confirm the actual scene name. EDIT: The bad ending is called "I've Been Having These Weird Thoughts Lately". 18:09, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

That's not the name of the ending, that's the name of the Secret Episode. The page appears to be an observation of the ending cutscene, not the episode as a whole. EDIT: For clarification, that's pointed at Samoa Joe's comment about "Falsus Rex". Draconai (talk) 18:14, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm just gonnna... huh. I'm just gonna throw this out there. I'm just spitballing. Do we have any sort of citation that the ending where Sora wins is the true ending, as opposed to just being positive? Because with this discussion about cutscene names, I'm starting to doubt how false the bad ending is. Draconai (talk) 20:30, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * None whatsoever. There's a good ending, and a bad ending, but nowhere is it clarified which one is the canon ending. I think we need to stop referring to the good one as "canon" until a proper confirmation of some sort. I can think of a lot of offhand examples where a bad ending was canon. Final Fantasy XV, off the top of my head lol. --Samoa Joe (talk) 20:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

You have no idea how nice it is just to have someone not automatically assume it ends nicely. Draconai (talk) 23:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Gloriosa, does it feel amazing to beat a boss that tough with your own hands. Sora beats Yozora ending is titled: "Like, Is Any of This for Real or Not?". Theater menu arranges Yozora beats Sora ending before Sora beats Yozora ending. Draconai (talk) 01:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

The Driver?
Got any ideas as to who it could be? I've heard people saying that it may be Luxord due to the similarity of their hair and the fact that it sounds like the same voice actor; Robin Atkin Downes. CrinosWolf500 (talk) 01:03, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Did anyone upload it in Japanese? If the driver is voiced by George Nakata, and believe me you can just tell if it's him, then it basically indirectly confirms its Luxord. --Samoa Joe (talk) 02:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

True Ending
According to Keytotruth, the ending where Sora wins is called the true ending in the game files. I guess that means this would be the canon one. 17:41, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That settles that. --Samoa Joe (talk) 20:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

If the game files classify one ending as "true", then Template:Canon is still applicable to anything applying to the alternative. That said, it would still be ideal to leave the names of the endings as listed in the Theater Menu.

Also, can I just offer my kudos to whoever picked the screenshot for this page, because that is just the perfect choice. Draconai (talk) 02:35, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Isn't this similar to the alternate cutscenes in the first game? --Yellowlightning1996 (talk) 02:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Can't vouch for the first one (I got I.5 for the PS3, so no Theater Mode for me), but the alternate cutscenes in Twilight Town for KHII were not registered in Theater Mode. However, the alternate forms of this ending have much more significant differences than those instances, so I don't think we should call upon them for precedence. Draconai (talk) 02:49, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

....Are you KIDDING ME!?!?
...Verum Rex. VERum Rex. Falsus Rex. FalSUS Rex. Ver. Sus. .......Versus. Okay, at this point, who the bloody hell is Tetsuya Nomura kidding with this stuff? :/ --Samoa Joe (talk) 20:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

"Verum" and "Falsus" are Latin for "True" and "False", respectively. Not sure what you're implying 'Versus' is about, unless you've gotten a leak about the Wave 2 DLC for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I think Cloud and Ryu's installments in WiiU/3DS were advertised as Super Smash Bros. vs Street Fighter/Final Fantasy. Draconai (talk) 21:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Versus as in Versus XIII. However, I don't think it really means anything. Then again, it's Nomura, so who knows. 21:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * What Silent Hero said. XV was originally a Tetsuya Nomura project called Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Saying that it was stuck in "development hell" for six years would be putting it very mildly as the game suffered from both technical and story problems. Square-Enix management eventually got fed up with it, so they kicked Nomura off the project to work on KH3 while Versus was handed over to Hajime Tabata. It's also putting it extremely mellow that Nomura did not take that well at all. Verum Rex is basically Nomura shoehorning his Versus XIII vision into Kingdom Hearts as a vanity project. To make it even more egregious, Famitsu (I think?) asked him about the numerous similarities between Verum Rex and V13, and Nomura was basically "They are nothing alike whatsoever." And then Re Mind's ending ends up being a SHOT FOR SHOT recreation of a Versus 13 trailer, and once more, the word salad present. VERum + FalSUS = VERSUS. He's angry, he's bitter, he's salty, and frankly it's pretty ridiculous that he's even worse than the XV haters who just can't let it go. :/ --Samoa Joe (talk) 23:58, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

By that logic, the group name "Organization XIII" is a Lightning Saga reference, and Xion's production designation of "No. i" is an allusion to Dawn of Souls. Besides which, Versus XIII was rebranded as XV, the only thing that name refers to anymore is #WhatCouldHaveBeen Draconai (talk) 22:08, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not a very good comparison. Nomura was working on Versus XIII before it changed to XV, and a lot about Verum Rex resembles Versus XIII. The ending of the secret episode is pretty much an exact copy of a trailer. That's why people look for links to Versus XIII, as they think this is Nomura implementing the original concept into KH. 22:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Looking for references is all well and good, but given this wiki's refusal to acknowledge Sora waking up face-down in the Scramble Crossing across from 104 as a Reaper's Game reference, there's no reason to consider the presence of the Latin terms for both "true" and "false" as a Versus XIII reference. Draconai (talk) 22:24, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's definitely not something worth mentioning on the wiki. It's just some fan theory. 23:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

...I know I conceded the point in the moment, but on closer scrutiny "Nomura worked on XV before the rebranding" doesn't really make "true + false = Versus XIII" any more logical than "XIII = XIII". Draconai (talk) 04:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You're.......not really getting it. Whatsoever. --Samoa Joe (talk) 04:49, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

You're assuming that the presence of the Latin words for both "true" and "false" is somehow a reference to the production name for XV. I don't see how that's any less of a leap than assuming the presence of the Roman numeral for thirteen is a reference to a game with the Roman numeral for XIII (which, I will reiterate, I mentioned as a theoretical comparison). Furthermore, you seem to be acting like (a) Nomura is the first person to reference an abandoned/reworked project in a later work, and (b) that there's anything wrong with so doing. Draconai (talk) 23:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)


 * ...[Uhhh....okay, then.]--Samoa Joe (talk) 00:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but my connection is apparently Mulch enough that I don't even get the name of the video, let alone load enough for me to see what it's supposed to contain, so forgive me for not being able to acknowledge. In any case, I will concede the recreation of the trailer in the secret ending as a preproduction reference, but your point about Verum and Falsus has about as much credence as extracting certain portions of words in Arthur Conan Doyle's writing to get support for the Third Reich. Draconai (talk) 00:30, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

(That's not an insult, incidentally, that's just the first example that came to mind) Draconai (talk) 00:39, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

{sigh} You know, bringing up separate points and bunching them together in the same paragraph is kind of like putting spices and sweeteners in separate canisters and throwing them all in the same basket with the lids off. If I want to say more than one thing at a time, I should really put it on more than one line.
 * There is nothing 'shoehorned' about Verum Rex. The #GameWithinAGame fits naturally into the story of Toy Box (as is evident to anyone who's watched Toy Story 2), and the secret endings are nothing more than hints at what's to come for the next Kingdom Hearts game, no different than Deep Dive or The Gathering.
 * The recreation of the Versus XIII trailer in the Re:Mind secret ending has no greater significance than the recreation of Neku's entrance into the Reaper's Game in the base KHIII ending, and complaining about one #MythologyGag and not the other raises the question of what exactly you're complaining about.
 * Nomura is nowhere near the first person to take a project that didn't go the way it was originally intended to and refit it for a different project, nor is there anything wrong with the practice. There is no need to insult a great man for making the most of #WhatCouldHaveBeen, and doing so is petty and spiteful.

Draconai (talk) 03:26, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Samoa Joe just pointed out a possible reference to Versus XIII, he never said this should be on the page. So why are you getting so worked up by this? It’s not being added anywhere, it was just pointed out.
 * And also, do not remove other peoples comments on talk pages. - JTD95 (talk) 10:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I tried to civilly point out the jump in his logic and he insulted the creator of the series. If such an instance doesn't get you worked up, I'd hate to see what does. As for the edit; leaving alone a line that has been added into the middle of a conversation after the fact is a difference in protocol between this wiki and another I use, and I apologize for failing to account for that. Draconai (talk) 18:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * So what if he insulted Nomura, why should that bother you? Why do Nomura need you do defend him? Why do we need to discuss that on this page? I'd advise the both of you to just end the conversation before it gets messy. Not pointing any fingers, just trying to prevent what could perhaps turn into something ugly and unnecessary. - JTD95 (talk) 20:10, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

If you take no offense to people insulting great men, that speaks of either boundless composure or boundless apathy, and the rest of your demeanour seems to imply the former. You have my kudos. Draconai (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2020 (UTC)