Talk:Sora-Heartless

Don't we already have Shadow Form? Glorious  CHAOS!  06:52, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Thats form this is a character. --Cococrash11 07:04, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * But Shadow Form is specifically about Sora as a Shadow Heartless. This page seems to be saying that that same being is the final boss of coded, which would suggest a merge. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Form talks about how you got to play as Sora's Heartless but this one deals with biography. --Cococrash11 07:38, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * Excuse me for butting in and all, but Shadow Form is Sora as a Heartless. This is Sora's Heartless. They seem to be the same character. I don't really like the idea of having one page for the form and one for the character, not only is it somewhat redundant in my opinion, but neither page acknowledges the other one. Unrelated, but would the brief playability of Shadow Sora count Sora's Heartless as a playable character?--Otherarrow 11:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Sora's Heartless appear as a main atoginast the source of Bug BLock and he's a boss in coded. --Cococrash11 18:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * Okay, let me put it this way. If the boss of coded is in fact Sora's own Heartless, then the pages will be merged, and Sora's Heartless (Boss) probably will too. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Instead of Shadow Form maybe Sora's Heartless is a playable Character like Sora, Riku, and etc. He can be first played in the first game. --Cococrash11 20:07, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * ...that IS Shadow Form. That's exactly what Shadow Form is. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:13, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

So put all of the information of Shadow Form in Sora's Heartless? --Cococrash11 20:19, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

So when are you going to put all of Shadow Form's info in Sora's Heartless? --Cococrash11 06:22, January 13, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

Isn't better to merge it with the Sora's Heartless boss page instead of shadow form, at least for now.Masgrande 22:28, January 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * If I recall, we have separate pages for bosses. (For example, no one suggests merging Xemnas with Xemnas (Boss)) Shadow Form, on the other hand, is the Heartless form of Sora, which has been retroactively made a separate character. Merging the main page with the boss page would be inconsistent with other pages (aside from Lingering Sediment), while not merging with Shadow Form would lead us with having two pages on the exact same thing, which is pretty redundant I'd say.--Otherarrow 00:54, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Merging
I heard there will be a discussion about Shadow Form merging into Sora's Heartless article but I didn't see anyone debating about it. --Cococrash11 01:56, January 16, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

How do you merge an article anyway? --Cococrash11 06:33, January 16, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11 �

Question about the quote
When did Soras heartless say that?I thought heartless didnt talk. Kaialone14 17:13, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

he say that in KH coded--Xabryn 18:23, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
Wheres Shadow Form's Trvia section? I thought mergeing means put all the trivia info in Sora's Heartless trvia? --Cococrash11 02:28, January 26, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * The trivia was already incorporated into the Story section.--Otherarrow 10:16, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Playable Character
Sora's Heartless is like a temporary playable character in KHI not a form. Since he is a minor character in KHI and a major antagonist in coded. So Sora's Heartless count as a playable character. --Cococrash11 06:02, January 27, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

Character
He is a character in KHI like Xehanort's Heartless. I mean we all know that Lingering Sentiment is Terra but with his soul but they are still diffrent. Sora's Heartless had Sora's Heart but covered with darkness. Its the same logic with Lingering Sentiment and Sora's Heartless. --Cococrash11 05:02, February 5, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

Beside at that time in KHI when Sora created and become Sora's Heartless he was falling into darkness and Sora's Heartless took control until Kairi bring Sora back. Sora even commented to Kairi that when he falls into darkness he lost feeling, forget everything and etc. So this proves Sora's Heartless took control when Sora falls into darkness. So this proves that Sora's Heartless is a real character. --Cococrash11 05:02, February 5, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * This makes him not a Shadow how—Urutapu 20:28, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * This makes him not a Shadow how—Urutapu 20:28, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Sora's Heartless and Sora
Sora's Heartless and Sora are totally diffrent character. Kairi filled Sora's Heartless with light and the real Sora returned. Sora's Heartless just remained in Sora's Heart. --Cococrash11 01:28, February 10, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * ...but you play as the Heartless. It's clearly still you, and Axel later mentions that Sora is one of the only beings who retained human form as a Heartless. Sora is canonically a Heartless from Hollow Bastion to Twilight Town. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:37, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

You know what I don't get it. Why is Sora a pseudo Heartless I 'm sure Nomura didn't mention Sora as a pesdo Heartless? --Cococrash11 01:45, February 10, 2010 (UTC)Coccocrash11
 * Kryten, I'm fairly sure Axel simply says that he retained his memories as a Heartless. I could be wrong though. And Cococrash, I always have an unnecessarily difficult time deciphering what you say. Hint.—Urutapu 04:19, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that Sora and Sora's Heartless are diffrent character to each other simple as that. --Cococrash11 05:01, February 10, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

Axel: There was a time he became a Heartless. And if one becomes a Heartless--- Larxene: They lose their minds and their feelings... They're consumed by the darkness. Nomura has not declared Sora's Heartless a separate character. If you believe he has, then we need acurate, trustworthy proof! Also I love how after finding defeat in one standpoint you decide to create a new problem. -_- Anyways, Sora's Heartless is just a branch of Sora. I won't waste time saying all these reasons to a headstrong user. But seriously, look at the facts.-- Xion 4  ever  04:19, February 13, 2010 (UTC)�

I said a frickin if!! Even if its a branch you can still call it a character just look at the nobdies Doesn't Xehanort's Heartless count as a branch of Xehanort. --Cococrash11 05:44, February 13, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * Xehanort has completely lost his heart to the darkness, you know that. Come on, admit it. Sora was almost lost. Had he been totally lost, then you could make the same distinction for Xemnas and company. But you know Sora wasn't lost to the darkness. So stop beating round the bush. Sulu mata  engkudu !  05:59, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Cococrash brought this up on my talkpage as well. I agree it is a form.-- Ninja Sheik  06:29, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Form only, but not minor character. Like Kryten said, it's a branch of Sora. Sulu mata  engkudu !  06:37, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

So, this disussion it over?-- Ninja Sheik  17:53, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'm gonna touch on this subject again, this time I'm talking to Cococrash. Judging by your comments on both here and BebopKate's talkpages you obviously didn't understand my previous comment about words. Attempting to belittle others and such will get you nowhere, it will later result in a warning for mis-wiki conduct. Be nice, okay?

Also continuing this discussion is pointless. Theres at least five plus users here who say that Sora's Heartless is a form of Sora and doesn't deserve a separate article. Arguing this matter more will result the same way.-- Xion 4  ever  18:11, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion...this whole thing is getting dangerously close to edit-war territory. And frankly, after getting a good night's sleep and re-reading through all the comments, I frankly still don't understand all of the arguments. Cococrash, I think you're making too much of the whole transformation issue, and you seem to think all of the characters have to follow the same rules, storywise. Sora has proven time and again to be one of the characters who has proven to be an exception to many rules, particularly because of his status as a main character. I would consider his Heartless state as a form, since Sora has many states of existance. I also have to ask at this point, do we have any official translations of coded to rely on the term "character" versus "form?"

I will be keeping a watch on this page and the article and there had better be some resolution to this very soon. Because if not, there will be pages locked and warnings handed out. 18:49, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

BOM BOM BBBOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!! Sorry, I really couldn't resist that one ^_^ 18:01, February 14, 2010 (UTC) ZexionTheGamer
 * Count on me for drumbeats, Zexion. Or explosions.� :P


 * Meanwhile, thanks, guys, now that this issue is settled. Sulu mata  engkudu !  01:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Can We Clear This Up?
AAll right, let me gather everything to end this pointless circling debate once and for all. I believe, athat having considered this extensively, I can possibly shed new light on the subject. (The only time I ever played KH was a demo in 2004 in EPCOT. Thus, speculation and clarity is about all that I can provide.)

Statement 1- Sora released his heart, and was transformed into a heartless. At this point, Roxas and Namine are created. Sora is reduced to the form of a shadow heartless due to a lack of darkness, and begins to lose his conciousness to darkness.

Statement 2- Kairi restores Sora to his human form. He does not rejoin with Roxas, and thus should be considered as a full blooded heartless. He remains this way until the end of the seven days in Twilight Town, and thus can be considered to be a heartless for the duration of Chain of Memories and 358/2 days.

Statement 3- In Kingdom hearts coded, the entity of Sora's Heartless, a personality of Sora enshrouded and possesed by darkness, is one of the chief manipulators of events.

Note- (since I'm not sure as of yet how relevant this is) Vanitas, an entity of raw negative emotions, darkness personified, and an aspect of Ventus (whose heart Sora holds) has the appearance of Sora, albiet with gold eyes (the same shade of those whose hearts are tainted by darkness) and black hair (the colour black is associated with darkness.) �

From this, we can determine that Sora (who never went by anything other than his name) is a heartless, or at the very least, the dominant personality. Other entities that share the collective identity of "Sora" are Roxas, his nobody, and Sora's Heartless, his personality as it would be if it were consumed by darkness.

It isn't a question of Forms or Characters, it more a case of alternate personalities. Dragonraptyr 02:40, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having said thus, Sora's Heartless should be left as it is. 02:42, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. But for everyone who argues, just consider this: What about reading an article about Multiple Personality syndrome, and applying it to Sora's situation (taking magic into account.) Dragonraptyr 02:54, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole thing that blew it all out of proportion was the fact that there are pages for Master Xehanort, Terra, Xehanort, Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas. And all of them are treated as separate characters. 02:57, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

I won't press thing about whether Sora's Heartless is a character or a form. I still think he's a character. But the part about Sora being a Heartless throughout KHI to KHII doesn't make sense. I mean he regained his body by having Kairi's light. In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVhAr5AVZ8g in 1:55 Aqua give some of her light inside Kairi. Maybe that light restored Sora to have a body in KHI to KHII. I think that make sense but the creator didn't even comment about it. So maybe we should wait for the BBS Ultima maybe it will explain things. --Cococrash11 03:06, March 10, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * True, we should wait for BBS' Ultimania. But wait ; I thought it should've been out a month after BBS' release ? o.O 03:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

@cococrash- the thing about personalities is that they can be either or. that's why I consider Sora's heartless to be a personality. Sora isn't any less Sora, he just has alternate personalities, alternate personas, of a sort. Roxas is an aspect of Sora, but he's his own character. Smae of Xion, and Sora's Heartless. thogh, to be fair, I consider Sora's heartless to have appeared only in Coded. No matter what, Sora became a heartless, and ceased to be one when Roxas merged with him. I personally just call that Sora is the dominant persona, and he became a heartless. But that's my belief. I see things as clear cut, but other people don't see those. They see other stuff that I don't. So, To each his/her own. I will not argue. I just try to provide facts, and let people do with them as they will.

(I'm not trying to rant here, sorry if it comes off that way.) Dragonraptyr 03:33, March 10, 2010 (UTC)