Forum:Where will we go?

Initial vote
THE INITIAL VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29 {|class="wikitable collapsible collapsed" !

Move

 * 1) (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14:54, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:01, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) --I&#39;m so bored 15:05, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  So  x  ra  ]] 17:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19:50, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 21:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  21:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Shard of Truth 21:52, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) -- Random! to a point!  22:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) BlackSoulBlade 22:48, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Falcos 18:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Don't move

 * 1) SeanWheeler 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) LightRoxas 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) User:Master Vantius --Master Vantius 00:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Where to?
THE VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29

ShoutWiki

 * 14:55, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:14, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wikkii

 * Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * maggosh 15:58, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I think private hosting is the best option, it's not feasible for a community like this. So  x  ra  ]] 17:41, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * BlackSoulBlade 22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:15, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Falcos 01:05, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Private hosting
Please provide comments on your proposal
 * I've already stated what I though would be optimum, through the utilization of MediaWiki.
 * }

REVOTE
''If you agree to a revote based on the new circumstances, please replace your name here with your signature. All previous voters must agree to revote for it to proceed.''


 * 02:58, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * BlackSoulBlade
 * Erry
 * Falcos 07:24, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * JfHavoc
 * (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:18, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17:22, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 20:04, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * LightoftheDarkness
 * LightRoxas
 * maggosh 21:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Master Vantius 22:12, November 9, 2010 (UTC)Master Vantius
 *  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  16:23, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Randomnessity
 * Riku&#39;s Love
 * SeanWheeler 02:01, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sephiroth0812 20:03, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 16:40, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * ShardofTruth
 * SilverCrono
 * So x  ra  ]]
 * The Inexistent


 * I decline the revote. maggosh 16:28, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * THE MOTION IS KILLED, THE MOVE TO WIKKII WILL PROCEED AS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. CAPSLOCK IS FUN.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dammit, Mag! -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  17:03, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I second Neumannz's outburst. -- 00:17, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I second DTN's seconding. -- 02:42, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even though I didn't vote the first time (big mistake), I second Havoc's seconding of DTN's seconding.
 * I agree with these guys^-- 02:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^this BlackSoulBlade 03:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * What they all said *points up* 03:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I concur with the majority. --"Never fear ... Superdog is here!" Yipee! :D 04:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123

So basically, Maggosh, you've got yourself a looooooooot of people pissed at you right now-- 04:13, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * If my vote counts, then you have it! Bud0011 04:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Okay, I revoke my declination. Back to the Continuum! *snaps fingers* maggosh 05:39, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I revoke my vote because enough is enough, Wikia isn't complying and the current situation is that this place is becoming a fan-based wiki while the official is going onto the new server/database. 16:14, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose I could follow suit with Erry... maggosh 16:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So, does this mean the re-vote is on? What will we be voting on, exactly? --Never fear ... Superdog is here! Yipee! :D 05:43, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123
 * It appears so. Hopefully, the vote should be clear, like:
 * Move to independent server
 * Move to Wikii
 * Stay here
 * Bud0011 05:49, November 10, 2010 (UTC).

Aaaaaand we're back where we started-- 16:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is where? Bud0011 16:29, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Where we are without question, without a doubt moving no matter what anyone has to say about it-- 16:32, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And is that Bad? Do you guys have somewhere to go? Bud0011 16:36, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Whatever happened to making a SEIWA? y'know, a Square Enix NIWA? I'D vote for that. -- 16:50, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only 3 people showed up in the IRC yesterday: myself, the NIWA coordinator and Zyeriis. I am still interested in helping set it up. Bud0011 16:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC).


 * REVOTE! 13:50, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the yo-yo, guys. >_> maggosh 21:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yo-yo sums it up pretty damn well. Will you make up your mind already? i don't mean to be rude but your constant flip-flopping is starting to make me dizzy-- 23:13, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Of What Remains
We'll have to see. Perhaps we can set a criterion somewhere, or not. That and real-world coverage.  BLUER   一番   15:43, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I assume that includes stuff like coverage of interviews and VA and developer profiles and that kind of thing, right? -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  15:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Acceptable fan content is up debate. Same as real world. How much substantial info would it add to the fan community of KH? Its up for debate. As for that crippling KHfanon, depends on what KHfanon contains.  BLUER   一番   15:57, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * About adding fanon content, I think the more topnotch material should be allowed - Avastar: Kingdom Hearts, for example. maggosh 16:04, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh uh, no way! We are not having fanon stuff on this wiki. I approve of having articles on voice actors, but fanon will have to stay on the Twilight Town Library. SeanWheeler 17:45, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

That may not be up to me, but I still don't like it. Putting fanon stuff on this wiki will make it as unreliable as Uncyclopedia. If we want to attract fans, we wouldn't be putting up lies and confuse them. SeanWheeler 18:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

@SeanWheeler: I think you're being overzealous and confusing the point of the two wikis. The current KH Wiki - the one that is moving - is intended to be purely devoted to official information on the main articles, and unofficial topics are contained on things like the forums. Once the wiki moves, the Wikia-Wiki will change in some way to differentiate the two; having it be a fan-oriented database is, I think, a good idea.18:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really want to move. You know yesterday, I looked at the Oasis skin, and it is starting to look better. Sora's page is still readable, and so is Donald and Goofy's. In fact I looked at the forum, and it looks good. Wikia is improving the skin. Fixing the bugs. And we still have Monobook. SeanWheeler 18:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

1) Once again, this isn't just about us not liking the skin (though that is a big part of it). It's about how Wikia is forcing the skin on us, and that readers are still stuck with Oasis. The only thing Oasis has over Monobook (to me) is a better recent changes page, which readers won't see much anyway. 2) If you don't want to move, then don't. No one's making you. I you want to keep voting on TKW, fine, do that, but do it on the oved wiki (or the original one if they continue the contest as well).-- Lapis  Scarab   18:36, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * porplemontage owns this site, in which you can find out other wiki's he helps with. What was the domain you guys agreed to? Bud0011 20:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC).

Too bad that new site doesn't have Monaco! Why couldn't people get Monaco on their new sites if they miss Monaco so much? SeanWheeler 22:33, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm coming in late to this section, but I support this new turn, although the KHWikia wiki would still stay high up on a google listing with all its activity. That could be a problem. Second, who the hell set up the db? Thirdly, this answer is a little late, but to anyone out there who still dislikes the move because it would be "wasting all that hard work we put into it" is wrong. That is crap. To put it in a simple form, pretend that there are two folders on your hardrive, nothing else. One is named kingdomhearts.wikia.com, and the other is named new wiki. Now suppose that the Wikia folder is full of files, documents and images and such, and that the new wiki folder is completely empty. Moving is basically highlighting everything in the wikia folder, copying it, and then pasting it in the new wiki folder. Nothing was lost in this process. Finally, Sean, the new sight can't have Monaco because Monaco is not a public skin. It is owned by Wikia (if this has changed, please inform me).

Okay, I looked at the Anti-Wikia Alliance database and Kingdom Hearts Wiki isn't up there. Don't we need to register to the Anti-Wikia Alliance to move? SeanWheeler 23:35, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not a requirement, just a really good idea. Bud0011 23:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC).

First of all, TNE actually originally singed us up for the AWA. Second, the AWA is in no way offical. Third, why would we have to register with them to move? Fourth, I like the idea, but don't listen much to me, as I will no longer exist, er... inexistent on kingdomhearts.wikia.com. AND, for all noobs reading this: do not start doing fanon stuff yet. Nothing is hammered out.


 * I also wonder why Wikia would let people put forums like that on community central. In fact, why don't they threaten to block all the patriots? Sannse, a Wikia staff member responded on our forums without threatening us. Remember when we thought we were going to lose Monobook until I discovered the week before the deadline that we are keeping it? Maybe they were planning on losing it, then they decided to keep it when fans complained. And also Oasis' purpose is to improve accessability on Wikia. It has a few bugs but they are improving it. Look, Wikia is more lenient compared to us and the patriots. In fact, they may even give us back Monaco at a later time. SeanWheeler 01:36, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Um, no, they said that Monaco is gone for good. It will never return.  And, if you read anything at the top of the AWA page, Wikia knows that it wouldn't do any good to delete the content.  It would still exist and would most likely be restored.  The patriots aren't banned as it would violate Wikia's banning policy.
 * @Inexistent: "fanon" =/= "fan-based". -- 01:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, maybe Monaco is gone for good, but we still have Monobook. And the reason why they switched to Oasis was because some people didn't like Monaco. And they wanted some way to improve the site. They didn't mean to shove a bad skin down our throats. They are improving Oasis for better navigation. SeanWheeler 02:06, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

ARG ARG ARG. For the like 10th time, only the registered users will see Monobook, anons will see Oasis, and they will format their edits accordingly.  Chitalian  8   02:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is not the point. Wikia is improving Oasis. They are trying to make Oasis easier for newer Users. They are trying to help improve their site. Oasis just takes getting used to. That's all. SeanWheeler 02:16, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

The thing is, they're not changing the core issues, like the reduced width, as well as the adjusted galleries. This isn't about getting used to, it's about actually making the wiki look like crap.  Chitalian  8   02:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sean, enough. The move has been decided, there is no changing that. Either give ideas for where we should move, what the original Wikia should become, or stay out of the discussion, you're making us go in circles. And by the way, we know they didn't mean for the skin to suck as gloriously as it does, but they totally meant to force it on us. You can't "accidentally force something on someone.02:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is my summery on the situation:
 * Wikia is a horribly company that cares nothing for the fan's that contribute to it's community. For example, see this. Wikia buy's wikis with empty promises and lies, and then forces it, along with all wiki's under it, to have it to use wikia own's extensions and customizations. Being on your own would give you more control over the wiki and be run by actual fans, not faceless cooperations. Bud0011 02:38, November 8, 2010 (UTC).

Calling Wikia "horrible" and "faceless" is a bit of an exagerration. They are honestly trying to give the layout an easier interface. It works on some levels, and I see where they are going. However, the fact that this is such a template-heavy wiki gives us problems, since we have formatted so many of our changes to Monaco/Monobook. But to accuse them of such things as "empty promises and lies" is a huge overstatement.  Chitalian  8   02:43, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sean, Oasis was not started because people didn't like Monaco. Wikia has a tendency to update things that need no update... but they went to far this time.

Well...I read all the posts in here thus far, and have to agree with the majority who feel the wiki should be moved...I just want to know where...I saw Wikkii got the most votes, so is that where KHWiki is going, or is it going to the site from porplemontage? Eyestothesky 11:58, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Revoting

 * I also wouldn't be opposed to a revote. The Oasis skin is horrible, but I don't like changes such as moving. Also I think merging with the fanon wiki would be a terrible idea. Even if we move, we should protect the wiki from vandals. Having fanon on this wiki would encourage vandals to put fanon stuff on the facts pages such as the Unknown from Birth by Sleep being Ansem the Wise (that happened once). Also I would want the Wikia Wiki to be no different than the new wiki. SeanWheeler 20:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...Sean, that is the worst possible idea for what to do with the wikia wiki.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  21:04, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * My guess is that many people here haven't experienced Wiki's outside of Wikia. Bud0011 21:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC).

Well, maggosh stopped the fricken' revote, so now that is useless, and, guys: THE WHOLE POINT OF MOVING IS SO THAT THE WIKIA WIKI REMAINS HERE TO BE CHANGED IN A MANNER THAT MAKES IT MORE FAN BASED. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE BLOODY PREVIOUS CONVERSATION? KRYTEN IS RIGHT, CAPSLOCK IS FUN.

Bloody hell, what does everyone keep saying the word "official"? We are not official in any way. Seriously guys, if we were the official KHWiki, SE would be hosting us, not Wikia.

MV undefined

Popping in here for a second. You aren't having a re-vote because one person who voted originally, doesn't want another vote? I fail to see the logic in how that is fair. One could easily deny the re-vote just because the option they would vote for anyway, was the winner of the previous vote. I do not, personally, know what he voted for but, does that really matter? It is still unfair on the aforementioned basis.--Zyeriis 03:25, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I know I'm just an anon, and thus my opinion may not be taken very seriously. I've been a visitor and reader (I've even made some edits) of this wiki for some time now. I completely understand and agree with the decision to move. I like the Square-Enix Portal idea the most, as that seems to benefit the most wikis, including yourselves. I also agree with Zyeriis, just because maggosh doesn't want a re-vote, that automatically means the rest of you can't? Shouldn't the majority rule? The majority ruled with the original vote, so why can't the majority rule with the vote on taking a re-vote? Again, I'm just an anon, but I have been reading this thread for while, since about a week before Oasis became the default. 66.215.20.249 03:44, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So do we have a plan yet, or no?Mar 03:45, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So yeah...um...Like that anon, I'm not much more than a casual user, and sometime editor (ffwiki, obliviowiki, wowwiki, not here yet), but like many others despise the changes wikia has been making. Personally, I feel moving is probably best for the quality of the wiki. Irregardless, I have to agree with Zyeriis; it's pretty crazy that there isn't going to be a revote because just 1 person doesn't want to...I could understand if half the people didn't...but this is just one person...it's clear that a revote is wanted... Eyestothesky 05:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, guys, I don't think you understand how the revote decision was working. In real life, if you don't like the results of an election, you can't just say, "Well, the previous vote didn't count", and keep voting until you get what you want. The revote decision wasn't a vote in and of itself, it was a statement that those who voted last time wanted their votes thrown out. That's not a decision that anyone but them can make, and it's not fair to have them be ignored just because you don't agree with their vote.
 * But anyway, maggosh has rescinded his declination, so as soon as the other voters agree to the revote, it can proceed. (Arg, right as I had arranged free time to install on wikkii, too.)(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  13:46, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well that was the point...I don't understand. Your example isn't identical to this situation for starters. Note: I am completely aware that "arguing" further about this, is absolutely pointless but I have some free time while I am relaxing after work. How do I put this...why would someone agree to the re-vote, if what they previously chose, won. The other people who clearly wish to change their vote based on previously unknown options (the options were options prior to the original vote, they were just not on the ballot) would cause this person to make sure that they get their way by simply saying no to the re-vote (You are voting on whether or not to re-vote, which I simply can't seem to understand). How is re-voting, ignoring their votes? Are the banned from re-voting as well? Again, I completely fail to see how "wanting their votes thrown out" is any different than re-voting.--Zyeriis 21:20, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh please Got no.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:47, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is what lies in front of you, based on the amount i've learned in the past month:
 * Move to an independent server - See this for a list of Pro's and Cons.
 * a) Move to prople's server - Don't need to pay for his service, and he is an experienced wiki host (He owns SMW, SSB Wiki).
 * b) Move to an independent server (other than prople's) - Pay for service if not externally hosted by a benefactor.
 * Move to another Wiki farm - have a similar to the one relationship with Wikia, but with better staff. Don't have to pay for their service, as it is ad based. See this for more information
 * a) Move to shoutwiki - one of the most popular Wiki farms.
 * b) Move to Wikkii - Seems to be a decent Warm.
 * Stay here and learn to deal with the skin
 * I hope i explained this well. If not, i could try explaining it again. Bud0011 20:37, November 10, 2010 (UTC).


 * Happy to help. Bud0011 22:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC).


 * For any one who doesn't know, See here for the SEIWA idea.
 * Also, Do you guys plan on making a new thread for revoting? Bud0011 08:27, November 12, 2010 (UTC).

I agree with the revoting. I really hate how Oasis is forcing people to move. I don't want to move because the only wiki sites I go to are NIWA, Wikipedia, and Wikia. I don't want to move to a new wiki site. The anons could create accounts can't they? And also turning this into a fanon wiki would drive away people who want facts and research. Also people could get used to it after a while, although it could take longer it is pretty awful. There are a few people who like it. I am not ready to move. I would revote to stay on wikia. SeanWheeler 01:54, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Sean... what are you not getting here? We are not moving just because of Oasis. And you mentioned that you mainly visit Wikipedia (not a Wikifarm site), Wikia (obviously), and the NIWA. We want to make our own version of the NIWA with Square Enix wikis. And what is wrong with moving to a new sight? '''We are not losing any info, or Monaco. The only thing we will lose are our edit counts, but a good editor shouldn't really care about that.''' And dude, anons can create accounts on every thing that runs MediaWiki. Or do you mean that the anons could edit? Because, if you haven't noticed, they do that here, too. '''Next, THIS IS NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A FANON WIKI. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE ABOVE CONVERSATION? And the other point of that is that people come to the new site for the facts and information.''' After delibarating for so long now, most people have decided that moving is the better option. Please consider what I have said.

On an unrelated note, this reminds me of the American Civil War. Everyone thinks it was because of slavery (our Oasis), when it was honestly that and a lot more. Hear that, Sean? -- 02:44, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Except Inexistent's wrong, this is all about Oasis, that and the fact that Wikia doesn't listen to it's own community. We may try and say it's something more than that, but in truth it really isn't. I mean seriously, do you mean to tell me that if Wikia suddenly opened it's ears and brought Monaco back this second and everything went back to the way it was, you would still be adament about moving?-- 02:50, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well, like Silva said, this is like the Civil War. Sure, Oasis sparked it, but it lead us to see other things, like our expansion requiring something more, and Wikia's unfair hosting practices. And, through this dividing war, we have seen the fact that we can now be better off another way. So yes, Oasis started this movement, but it isn't the whole problem.

When you aren't forced to look at it, you don't tend to notice it. If Wikia is jerking us around discreetly from the shadows, the end-users don't notice it. Plop a new skin that ruins everything in front of them, and they'll revolt. That's what's going on here--because people can see the change now, they look at the bigger picture and see just what Wikia's doing. So x  ra  ]] 04:37, November 13, 2010 (UTC)