User talk:Soroxas

KH3 content
Hey there. I noticed you were creating pages for characters and worlds that will appear in Kingdom Hearts III. Our policy is to wait until the game is released before starting those pages. However, we've set up drafts in our project-space in case people want to get started. 17:16, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, what is the reasoning behind this policy? No offense, I really don't see the point of it. Is it to prevent spoilers or something? Or because information may be inaccurate? The majority of wikis allow articles for upcoming content, while they tend to have templates at the top which say "this content is upcoming".


 * I also think we should add KH3 era icons, content footers and templates. Sora's article has them for example. I did this while adding Olette's KH2 biography, but my edit seems to have been rejected. Is it because of the KH3 stuff? Soroxas (talk) 00:54, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * With past games, some of the content shown in trailers didn't actually make it into the final version of the game (the Twilight Thorn in KH3D for example). Therefore, we have the policy that we only place information on the game page itself, to avoid having to change and remove stuff from all kind of pages later. The same applies to the KH3 icons and templates. There are some exceptions for characters that are definitely in the game, like Sora. And yes, that is why your edits were rejected. 17:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I still don't really agree with the principle in concept and think the idea of a "this article is for upcoming content and may be inaccurate" template is superior, but if that's what the people in charge of this wiki plan to do, then I can't really say or do much. It seems really extreme to deny KH3 articles just because information may be inaccurate based on trailers. For example, info about Elsa being in KH3, her being from Arendelle, her sister being Anna, etc, aren't going to change in the final game. I know all the KH3 content will be added later, I just don't see the big issue with getting a headstart on things we absolutely know for sure (for example, there's no way Olette is going to be removed KH3 after she's seen in various trailers wearing new clothes). In the meantime, I guess I'll just work on the drafts then. Maybe you should make it more obvious that KH3 content is just going to be drafts for now. Soroxas (talk) 05:35, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "It seems really extreme" -- these are the same policies that wikipedia and tfwiki follow.
 * "I just don't see the big issue" -- The issue is that each time the wiki community has given in on this point, false material based on trailers makes it into the wiki that does not get removed until a year or more later, when someone like me notices it. In the meantime, the wiki gets criticized by the fandom for having such material. 20:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Woody Pride
Why did you remove this? 19:03, 20 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Where? If you mean on the KH3 article, it was already just "Woody" before I edited. If elsewhere, then it's probably an error. Soroxas (talk) 19:14, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * https://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Template:KH3&diff=prev&oldid=741361


 * I was just trying to be consistent with the name of the article there. The name conventions on this wiki are confusing. Sometimes, the article name isn't the same as the infobox. It's why I've avoided creating Mike's and Sulley's pages. Soroxas (talk) 20:25, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Woody Pride is the name used by the official site. If other sources use just Woody, then they are either unsourced or not up to date. The naming conventions on this wiki are "full name used in published material". 20:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Violating guidelines
I was responding to the IP, not you. That being said, we do have a general policy to edit articles as if they rest of the wiki was set up correctly, red links and all, as done on tfwiki. The goal is to minimize what rewriting needs to be done once a game is fully released. 20:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Captions
Hi, I just want to let you know that the community doesn't use quotes for captions for our images. Captions should be written more professionally, in a way that summarizes what the image depicts.-- 21:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I know I mentioned this before, but I seen you've been uploading a lot images lately and inserting them in articles, and the captions aren't fulfilling the wiki's requirements. So, as a reminder: the captions need to explain what the image itself depicts. Putting it "X with the group" isn't informing the readers what the image is supposed to illustrate.-- 21:20, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

This is my third time saying this, but you're not really following the image policy in regards to the captions. KrytenKoro reverted some of your edits because you're not following our guidelines with the captions. When adding images to an article, please write the captions that explains what the image itself depicts. Don't just say "X with Y and Z", and use different captions for different images (not "X with group" or "X on Destiny Islands).-- 23:12, 12 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I'm not used to a wiki where captions are expected to be so long and detailed. Honestly, it comes off as redundant to me when the image is right beside text that explains what it is. It feels overly written to me. I thought "Frollo meets Sora" would be an improvement over "Frollo and Sora", but I realize now that it does not suffice. I'll try to add more detail then. Soroxas (talk) 05:49, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that's why I had reverted those changes, but yes, that's pretty much the gist of the policy -- images are meant to compliment the text, not simply be decoration. Similar to wikipedia, the caption should give enough of a description to justify the image, but also not just be redundant to the text itself. So, for example, the images on pages for special techniques describe the visual appearance of a technique, like Zantetsuken's cherry blossoms. We can't really do stuff as comprehensive as this, but this is the gist of what we're going for -- a professional, encyclopedic approach that respects fair use restrictions and focuses on content over decoration. 13:46, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey, Soroxas. While your efforts of uploading images in Galleries and articles are appreciated, I've noticed that you've been trying to add images to a lot of the smaller articles, like the Evil Queen's page, for example. However, due to the limited role certain characters' play and/or how the articles are written, some articles cannot host too images. Please don't try to cram too many images in articles to avoid cluttering. Please add them to the Galleries instead. And not to sound like a broken record of anything, but please make sure when doing captions, describe what the image itself depicts. I've noticed that you're still not really writing the captions out that follow the wiki's policy.-- 18:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Inserting images
Also, just to let you know, the wiki follows the typical standard that when posting images into articles, it follows a left-right-left-right pattern.-- 22:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding your edits to the Seifer page
Just because someone disagrees with you and undoes your edit, doesn't mean they're "forcing their own interpretation". Especially if they left an edit comment explaining why they undid it. By undoing that edit, you're actually forcing YOUR own interpretation. If you disagree with another user over something, instead of edit warring, you should take it to the talk page. Now, someone else edited the page with a possible solution for your disagreement. If you do not agree with that edit, please don't undo it, but bring it up on the talk page. 10:15, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There are three options.


 * 1) Claiming it's totally mocking
 * 2) Claiming it's totally sincere
 * 3) Claiming it could be mocking or sincere

I already left a comment explaining why I felt it was option 2 for myself, but I decided to go with 3 in order to try to reach a middle ground with them. If someone undos option 3 in favor of 1, they are not open to alternate interpretation. This is exemplified because they said "No, you're wrong, it IS option 1, and we are not doing option 3". What I find amazing is that you're trying to make me look like the bigot here, when I went for option 3, while the other person went for option 1 and also edit warred a bit too in order to keep option 1. If someone tried to keep option 1, then I'd say that pretty much qualifies forcing an interpretation. Yet you go after me, acting like I'm the only one who is totally guilty and in the wrong. And if they undid my edit again, I would indeed take it to the talk page. I am fine with the current version. Soroxas (talk) 11:21, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I hardly calling editing your edit once "edit warring". If you disagreed with me, simply talk it out to the talk page and let's discuss it thoroughly. Quite frankly, I find it ridiculous to be disagreeing with something that is made quite clear through the characters' tone and dialogue, not to mention the the general interaction between them in the scene and having a good and objective understanding who the characters are and their relationship they have to one another in the game. For the sake of not escalating things further and not violating the standard three-revert rule, as it seems to be a case of "difference in opinions", I'll leave it as it is at the moment.


 * However, I will ask that you keep future conversations with other users more cordial and assume good faith in accordance to the KHWiki's rules. It's fine to disagree with other users and you are entitled to your opinion, but don't go around saying "forcing one's interpretation" or that our no speculation rule "only exists because people like you with this mindset are often in positions of power on wikis". That isn't how the community works. Everything is decided by majority vote, not on a user's editing credentials.


 * If you find our policies disagreeable, I think you might favor our sister site, The Keyhole, more and find it more suitable for your editing style.-- 18:15, 24 June 2018 (UTC)


 * We'll have to agree to disagree. In my eyes, re-adding "Seifer mockingly said", when someone already vocalized that they disagree with this interpretation and attempted to be neutral, is forcing your interpretation. At that moment, you could have also went to the talk page, but your reaction was to undo my edit. I also still disagree with KH2's article featuring art of Sora on the beach - I disagree with your view that it's somehow more relevant, especially when the first 2-3 hours of the game heavily focus on Roxas' life in Twilight Town with his friends. Hayner, Pence and Olette meant so much to Roxas, and they also play a prominent role with Sora during the latter parts of the game.


 * Yes, Seifer is a bit of bully, but Japanese games tend to feature character growth and complexity, just like how Seifer wasn't completely evil in FF8. The way Seifer nods to Roxas and then fist bumps his heart seemed very bro-ish. The way Olette calls out to him also came across as sympathetic. I don't like Seifer being portrayed as this one-dimensional bully. Seifer also thought Roxas was a photo thief, explaining his hostility. I'm sad that you view that scene as just "Seifer being an ass again", instead of him changing his attitude of Roxas a bit, and a hint that maybe he's not all that "bad" as he seems. Soroxas (talk) 18:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Once again, for the sake of not escalating things further, we need to take this discussion about the edit on Seifer's talk page. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the KHWiki advocates for objective facts, not personal interpretation. You might see my edit as "personal interpretation", but I see it as fact due to the evidence given to us, the viewers, via dialogue and tone, something I explained in the edit summary, as per policy. If someone seriously disagrees with something after three reverts, then it's policy to take to the talk page. So, shall we head there?


 * Again, that's your personal and subjective feelings on the matter, which is no place for the KHWiki. Also, I'd like to ask to refrain making assumptions about my subjective feelings regarding a character. Not only it is presumptuous and inaccurate, it's also extremely rude. Like most editors, I don't like letting my subjective feelings regarding a particular work seep into my objective editing. That's unprofessional. The KHWiki relies on facts and objectivity. So please refrain from acting as if you know my subjective thoughts and feelings on a particular matter, because as we are not acquainted, you do not.-- 19:08, 25 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Then let's take it to the talk page. We disagree on whether or not Seifer was being mocking is a fact. I was simply explaining my reasoning there. Soroxas (talk) 19:47, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Warning
What a fancy template. There's so much here I could pick apart, but I think I'll address the elephant in the room.

"False accusation of bad faith" - They framed a situation to make me look like the one who can't accept other's opinions and trying to force their opinion, when I was actually the one trying to reach a neutral viewpoint. That alone should be plenty of evidence, reason and grounds for assuming bad faith. Claiming what I said is "false" is extremely dismissive of my opinion and devalues what I have to say, and retroactively tries to paint me in the wrong. Soroxas (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Images
What's the deal with the brighter-but-patchier images you've been uploading? 13:47, 3 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Some images are way too dark to the point I can barely make anything out. The "patchy" effect is due to the brightening process. Sorry it bugs you and I'll keep your dislike of patchiness in mind. Soroxas (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, so to be clear you're not simply getting screenshots from the game? This wiki doesn't allow artificial alteration of images like that, out of concern for presenting stuff in a false light. If the game presents it dark, then it's dark. 19:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)


 * It's dark in the game, but not that dark as the image is. Also, a lot of games back then were adjusted for CRT televisions. It also does not help that a lot of capture devices can alter the brightness of an image. Because of all the factors involved, it's often difficult to tell what the intended brightness/saturation/contrast/etc of an image is. Soroxas (talk) 21:57, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, then we'd need to get a better direct rip from the game, not artificially alter an image. 13:24, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Bumping this. Soraxas, your images don't comply with the image policy, as some of the images you uploaded have altered, so can you please inform us which ones you uploaded were altered? You've been uploading a lot of them since you started editing and it's difficult to keep track of them. Images with artificial alternation need to be deleted and replaced with HD screenshots directly from the games.-- 17:39, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

The ones I recently altered were also altered before I altered them, so I altered them to look like how they were originally supposed to be. Their brightness was too high and were not a clean direct rip from the game in the first place, as the uploader's capture messed up the black levels. Look at the file history here and the brightness:

https://www.khwiki.com/File:Ventus-Vanitas_01_KHBBS.png

There's no way you can say that the developers intended their blacks to look like greys. Master Riku the Bloody uploaded HD versions, but in doing so, ruined the intended and correct brightness levels.

Also, the concept art of Hollow Bastion should not count, since it's not originally a direct rip of anything. I simply removed the grey smears on them, making it closer to what the artist intended. Soroxas (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of old images from the split, but the KHWiki are starting to replace them in HD. Plus, as a large franchise, it is difficult to keep up with the amount of images on this wiki. But you did confess to Kryten that you did alter those images nonetheless, and we need to get images directly from the games so we aren't presenting them in a false light. If anything, I just wanted to alert you that, if you see any images that needs replacement, you can request images to be uploaded and have them brought to attention by posting here.-- 18:35, 5 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't see the issue with altering an image to make it look unaltered and how it is actually supposed to look in the first place. I don't view it as "presenting these images in a false light". If anything, the originals, with their incorrect black levels, were already doing that. I'm done altering the brightness levels of images anyway.Soroxas (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Because you are taking an image and manually altering it based on an assumption that that is how it is supposed to look, not how it actual look in the game(s). That's why Kryten informed you that we need to get images directly from the games themselves. Please stop sidestepping the issue. Please list the images that you altered. I'll put in a request on the Image Requests to have those replaced. I think that you should talk ShardofTruth about to rip images directly from the games, as Shard is our best image uploader.-- 17:44, 6 August 2018 (UTC)


 * If the images were altered before, they should indeed be replaced. However, altering the images to make them look unaltered is not the way to do this. First of all, because it's hard to tell how exactly they were intended to look, and second, because they'll still be altered. The correct way to replace them would be to take screenshots from the games themselves. As NinjaSheik asked, please list the images you altered on the request page so they can be replaced. 18:06, 6 August 2018 (UTC)


 * My edits are closer to look like how the image is supposed to look. It does not take a genius or a perfectionist to know when black levels are incorrect. It's not "hard" to know in these cases such as Vanitas's images. It's not some vague wild assumption, I've played the games and know the brightness of the scenes. And while my alteration (I usually go to Photoshop and just click Auto-Contrast) may not be 100 percent correct to the original, it is close enough to the point it should not be an issue. For example, if an image is the number 100, then the unaltered version is like a 50 while mine is like a 90 or 95. In any case, here's every file I've ever uploaded:

https://www.khwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20190101000000&limit=500&contribs=user&target=Soroxas&namespace=6&tagfilter=


 * I can take direct rips instead, I know how. It is just difficult for KH1 pics due to the lack of theater mode in my copy, so I can't do that. The exception is the Ansem pic I recently pic, since it's near the beginning of the game. Soroxas (talk) 18:11, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Were all of your images altered? All the uploads you've done since were done in bulk, so it's hard to keep track of them. If you can refer to the ones you altered and post them the request page, that'll save a lot of time. Also, if you have trouble with getting images, that's what the request page is for. ShardofTruth or another user might be able to help if they can see what images need to be replaced on the request page.-- 19:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, all the images that are renders or control art of characters, soroxas cleaned them up by getting rid of excess whitespace, which was very helpful. 12:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * So not all of them were altered. Good to know. But it doesn't answer the question which ones were altered in brightness.-- 19:46, 7 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Any of them that are screenshots. 19:52, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Jiminy
Just a heads up, this wiki covers fictional content in an "in-universe" PoV, which means that we write synopses, well, like Jiminy Cricket would. I've tweaked your writeup on Jiminy's page to address this. 16:44, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Thumbnails
You'd need to ask an admin for the current policy, but to my memory there are parts of the manual style that dictate what width thumbnails should be in an article. 14:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

filenames
This wiki actually uses a bot for that, so it's already in the queue. 12:41, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Master
Xehanort is a clearly unique case, as his incarnations as a youth and as a Keyblade Master are treated as distinct, separate characters in the plot.

Mickey Mouse is a good example, although I'd like to suggest that most of that list is stuff that doesn't include his name at all (and King Mickey includes it only in part), and that these are names used for mechanical facets as well (ex. "The King" card in CoM). Furthermore, Mickey Mouse's article specifically excludes his Master title.

Meanwhile, Yen Sid, Aqua, Luxu, and Riku don't list Master, and the Foretellers exclude their special titles. Master of Masters is pretty much the only one that includes his Master title.

That being said, the journals consistently call him "Master Eraqus", while omitting the title for other characters, so there's that too. 18:27, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I would not normally list "Master Aqua" and "Master Riku" because they are used so sparingly. However, "Master Eraqus" is said over and over again, and used so frequently, that I think it deserves its own mention. If you absolutely MUST omit "Master Eraqus", then fine, but I would appreciate it if you left it be. Soroxas (talk) 22:51, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Talk sprites

 * 1) As I said in the edit comments, from what I remember of when the images were originally added, they were not official art -- they were fanedited images made in the style of the CoM sprites. I've contacted the admins to get verification on this -- it's possible that I've misremembered, or that consensus has changed over the years. Hell, it's possible the fansprites have already been weeded out.
 * 2) For Union X: you are misunderstanding what those headers are for. The headers are to illustrate the period in the timeline, not the specific game something appears in -- this is why we still use "Chain of Memories" in synopsis headers, not "Re:Chain of Memories". As far as the categories, the edit change window just showed the category getting deleted, it didn't show that there was already a category there, so that's my mistake.
 * 3) "Cold, ruthless, and uncaring" is the polar opposite of "slapping someone in a fit of rage". So, either you miscaptioned the image, or it doesn't fit the section. Per fair use, we should avoid using images that don't clearly complement the text -- so if you want to use that image, you need to clearly justify that specific image within the text, not used as decoration for the sake of having images). See this for a standard and more thorough guideline for what fair use allows us to do. This is also part of why the admins have been busting your balls about captions -- in order to stay kosher, we need to rigorously justify the use of the image. We're necessarily going to be more anal about these kind of things than a gaming magazine or an approved PR site specifically because we don't want to have to pay licensing fees for every single image we use.
 * 4) "you did not archive the pic in Larxene's gallery" -- we're not supposed to. We should not be putting every single image we can find that includes a character in the galleries. That's a direct violation of Fair Use, which is what allows us to use the images in the first place. Images should only be in galleries if they illustrate a specific, distinct, and necessary image of a topic (and to be frank, should be at least a little lower quality than the official image, if possible). We have a legal obligation to reduce the number of images we use as much as we can possibly justify. I have personally talked to SE PR reps about SE's relationship with the wiki, and stuff like overuse of images is a concern. At this point, we're basically operating under plausible deniability.
 * 5) You can "view things" however you want, but constantly assuming bad faith when other editors edit an article in line with decades-old policies that have been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon by the community is not helpful. I understand you are trying to help, lord knows I acted like this (and for the record, was thoroughly disciplined) when I first came to the wiki, but constantly accusing other people of "hurting the wiki" because they do something you don't agree with, despite giving clear reasons for why they did it, is burning bridges. If you think I've misinterpreted policy, or you disagree with the policy itself, question it or discuss it in that way. But, and I say this because I want you to succeed, repeated ad hominems are neither productive nor winning you a lot of fans. 16:12, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * TSH confirmed that the CoM sprites I had removed were in fact the official versions, and that they had already removed the faked ones. I reinstated the images you added. I also removed the excess Kingdom Hearts X character categories. 16:34, 20 August 2018 (UTC)