Talk:Vanitas

Vanitas and the Unversed
The Unversed appear to be the creation of Vanitas, who is the creation of Master Xehanort (with Ventus' help). Vanitas, being made of all of the Darkness that was extracted from Ventus' Heart, is possibly the first Unversed. The Unversed, as you know, are considered the opposite of human life. In the KH Universe, humans are denizens of the Realm of Light. Vanitas, though extracted from a human, is pure Darkness and therefore cannot be a denizen of Light. Thus making him a human from the Realm of Darkness, which would overall make Vanitas a sort of 'anti-human', or the opposite of Human life. Because Vanitas is comprised only of Darkness, it is implied that he would have some control over it and could even influence the Darkness into consciousness and form as the Unversed.XYZ. 05:22, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting theory, but could you at least sign it? Raven's wing 11:52, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Story
I'm wondering if we're allowed to actually start putting in the story information or do we have to wait for the English release for that? Lavaros

I kind of saw that with 358/2 Days- but at this point, the important parts should be coming soon? There's likely some one out there who got the ISO(I do not endorse this option >..>) or bought the game who will eventually give information and clear up some of the confusion regarding why Vanitas looks like Sora because all I've seen so far is guess work. Lavaros

That will take awhile, especially with all the people flooding the stream plays, I think some of the pages can start to be edited soon enough though, maybe not the story section, but Terra's, Aqua's and Ventus' Keyblades and Gameplay sections. Lavaros

Indeed, it really looks like Nomura decided to pull a Hideo Kojima on us. Lavaros

Vanitas's story section
So, can anyone link to the translations of the game, please? Since apparently the entire story has been fan-dubbed somewhere? Glorious  CHAOS!  13:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've marked the section with tags for citation. Unless links to reliable, first-hand translations can be provided, the material will be deleted. As it is, the section looks like it was probably written by someone who could not read the script, and was simply describing the scenes, which is what we all agreed we wouldn't do. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Chronologically

 * The Platinum Match doesn't seem to be canon, since Sephiroth and Sora act as if they've never met in KH2.—Urutapu 22:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway, the real problem is that, apparently, Vanitas requires a very specific deck to defeat. Or so says Nomura.—Urutapu 00:40, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no reason for the million empty lines. Anyway Randomnessity, yeah, you set up techniques sort of like a deck.—Urutapu 00:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

The prize is nothing special and certainly not as cool as the one winged angel keyblade.Hirokey123 05:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Just a question... *spoilers*
How the heck did all of that hair fit into Vanitas's helmet!?! Keyblade474 16:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

If this game had realistic physics, we shouldn't have been able to recognize Sora's head under the helmet. The helmet hair would have made him completely unrecognizable.

I also enjoyed Square's convenient "only showing his eyes" as his helmet is taken off. I kind of would have enjoyed seeing his hair just go POOF and appear... Yes, this entire post was completely relevant. 72.77.96.235 06:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well wouldn't it be just like Ansem the Wise's bandages as DiZ. The darkness changes his skin colour and eye colour as well as covered all his hair. So The same thing goes for Vanitas' mask, it just isn't explained how darkness does things like anti poof. (Leviathan657 01:29, July 10, 2010 (UTC))

Connection With Riku

 * That's...pretty much it. Xehanort/the darkness just likes to recycle outfits.—Urutapu 04:51, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

And he looks like Sora because... ?
I breezed through this page and for some reason could not find a reason for his likeness to Sora. What's up wit that? Because he was born with his helmet on, I'd assume that he would look like Ventus. But I guess Ventus' Heart linking with Sora's could have effected Vanitas' appearance, but that's just me trying to understand it.. What is the game's explanation and why isn't it listed here?XYZ. 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

he doesn't born with his helmet but his head isn't showed and if you think well it is sora that looks like him, but i don't know why thy're so alike--Xabryn 21:56, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

You're kind of right. Initially, when Vanitas is first materializing, you do not see all of his head, but you can see his metallic jaw guard thing. However, by the end of his birth scene you do see that he is wearing the helmet.XYZ. 05:19, March 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * When we saw Sora, he already looked like a mini version of old Sora, and Sora's mom would have noticed if he suddenly changed faces. It also doesn't make sense that Vanitas looks nothing like Ventus. However, do we know what world Ventus is from? It could be possible that they are brothers, though. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. Sooo....yeeeeah.........why is Sora Jesus all of a sudden? Kaihedgie 21:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but like I said, we have no idea what Vani's face looked like when he was born. Almost certainly he didn't look like Sora right off the bat. Since he was a fragment of Ven's heart, it's possible his face was damaged/featureless/a warped version of Ven's. I think it's safe to say his face was changed into its final appearance, though. Also, I don't understand your Jesus comment. --Neumannz 21:51, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, if Ven was the same age as Sora in KH1 when Vanitas was made(14) then Sora would have been 3. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS. --Evnyofdeath 20:06, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone's suddenly treating him like some kinda savior all of a sudden. D: Yes, I know he's connected, but he and Aqua never even met and Ansem doesn't remember and Terra didn't give two craps about him. So why? D: Kaihedgie 21:54, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yeeeah, someone already beat you to it. However, it didn't answer my question one bit XD Kaihedgie 22:15, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

If I remember right, XH made contact with Riku on Destiny Islands. As for battle stances, it doesn't matter that others don't share the same stance (except Roxas, Xion, and Sora, but they don't count), it doesn't make it impossible for 2 unrelated people to have the same stance. The fact is, Vani was designed to have parallels with Riku, but none of the similarities can't be explained as a coincidence. (Does he have the same fighting style even?) I honestly don't know if there's an actual reason for the bodysuit being similar, but it's not a huge deal. --Neumannz 23:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I like how people haven't attempted to answer my first question regardin' Vanitas. Kaihedgie 00:44, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * About Sora being Jesus? I recommend taking the question somewhere else, like a forum page. This is supposed to be a page to discuss info for Vani's article, and your question seems to be too subjective for Sora's article talk page. --Neumannz 00:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Wait, you had a question about Vanitas? Where? What was it? --Neumannz 00:53, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

'Even though it's Word Of God, it still has me skeptical since Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created. Ventus looked around KH1 Sora's age at the time. So how?' Kaihedgie 01:16, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Must I repeat myself? Must pay closer attention. Ventus' heart wasn't repaired until he was taken to Destiny Islands. He was still just a kid at the time. x: Kaihedgie 01:36, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the question? Why doesn't Vanitas look like young Sora? "How" what? Say the question clearly and explicitly if you want an answer. --Neumannz 01:40, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

The question is: How could Sora have possibly had a coherent influence on Ventus' heart if he was not even born? The keyword 'How'? Why I ask how? Ventus was around KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created and when he was placed on Destiny Islands by Master Xehanort which was where he was 'repaired'. That is my question. I'm pretty sure I was very clear the first time. Kaihedgie 02:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You were not. You never said the question straight out. Sora didn't have an influence before he was born. He was born the night MX brought Ven to the islands, if I remember correctly what happened during Ven's Awakening. Sora's newly born heart connected with Ven's broken heart to heal it. That was when he started influencing Ven's heart. Does that make sense? --Neumannz 02:15, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Not. One. Bit. Kaihedgie 02:29, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, in that case I gotta say, live with it. --Neumannz 02:30, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

And after reviewing Vanitas' birth scene, I can say for sure that he has his helmet on.XYZ. 05:03, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if this is redundant, but the reason Vanitas looks like Sora is because after the Darkness was extraced from Ven's Heart, the voice/Heart that connected to it was Sora's. Even though Vanitas was a seperate being, he was still dependant on Ven (I assume this because Ven was dependant of Vanitas, for after Vanitas was destroyed, Ven's Heart faded away), and because of Vens connection to Sora, Vanitas took on an altered version of Sora's teenage appearance. At least, this is what I've drawn from several others. --Evnyofdeath 20:04, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas must like to hear himself talk..
After looking through the Birth by Sleep section of the page I noticed that Vanitas 'reveals' his birth from Ventus' heart twice, both times to Ventus. The first time this is mentioned is in the 5th paragraph. This is when Ventus and Vanitas meet on Destiny Island. I've seen the scene and agree that Vanitas definitely spills the beans here. But then in the 7th paragraph it says that after Vanitas reveals his face he tells Ventus that he is the Darkness of Ven's heart. Did Ventus not get the idea the first time? I believe that whoever added that meant to state that this is where Vanitas takes credit for the Unversed.XYZ. 06:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Wait what?
"Master Xehanort then proceeded to use his Keyblade to unlock Ventus's heart, resulting in Vanitas's formation. The dark enigma, who appeared from an orb of dark energy, would be the source of the Unversed as well as a key component in Master Xehanort's plans." Does this mean Vanitas is master of the Unversed?Innosense 21:25, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes.-- 21:26, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ultimania
The Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Ultimania does not classify Vanitas as an Unversed. He is classified as a non-Unversed enemy, as is his sentiment, Terra, Zack, and Master Xehanort, among others. I do not think that Vanitas is an Unversed for several reasons; for example, Vanitas does not bear the Unversed logo, as all Unversed do. In addition, Vanitas was not created as a product of Vanitas's abilities, as the Unversed were, but instead was created from being seperated from Ventus, which caused the Unversed to begin appearing. Vanitas's status as an Unversed or non-Unversed needs to be decided on; if there is any reasoning as to why you think Vanitas is an Unversed, please leave it here so that it may be brought into conversation. By doing this, we will be able to make a sourced and informed decision on whether this article belongs in the "Unversed" category or not. -- 06:47, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas can still technically be considered an Unversed. The Flood don't have the crest, but they're still called as such. In addition, Vanitas is the physical manifestation of another person's primal force and embodies everything associated with that force, even moreso than Xehanort and his incarnations ever did. It's safe to say he is the king Unversed. Without him, they wouldn't exist, so when he went, so did they. Like I said in the previous talk page, I'm not sure the Ultimania is entirely correct. Kaihedgie 07:01, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas isn't a Unversed, i knew that since the beginning but i agree with Kaihedgie, he is the king Unversed so he can be considered one even if the ultimania says it isn't

Reorganization
This article is a mess. Images are everywhere. Sections are written poorly or with very choppy sentences or bad grammar. If anyone would like to help me as I expand/revise the article, please message me. I am going to leave the clean-up template now. - EternalNothingnessXIII 19:12, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sora's age when Vanitas was created
I got sick of reading that "Sora wasn't even born when Vanitas was created, because Ventus was KH1 Sora's age" If Ventus was KH1 Sora's age when Vanitas was created, that would mean Sora was 3 when Vanitas was created. This is of course assuming that Ventus is 15 during BBS. --Evnyofdeath 20:21, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sign your posts.
 * Ven's Awakening indicates that Sora had just been born when M. Xehanort brought Ven to Destiny Islands. Assuming that happened a short time after Vani was created, Sora was most likely born after that, or not long before. (Anyway, that doesn't matter, since Sora definitely didn't connect with Ven until after Vani was created.)
 * Also, where does it indicate how old Ventus is? --Neumannz 20:18, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I hadn't heard that before. But wouldn't that mean Ven would be older? He looks the same age as Roxas was, meaning he would be around 15 during BBS, and because BBS takes place around 10 years before KH1, that would mean Sora would be 5, and since people are saying that Ven was 14(Sora's KH1 age) when Vanitas was created that would mean Sora would be around 4....this is so confusing...... --Evnyofdeath 20:24, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * About 4 years past between Vani's creation and the main BBS storyline. Ven was CLEARLY younger when Vani was created. I'd say Ven was around 14 or 15 during the main storyline. Sora is 4. That's about all. --Neumannz 20:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks for clearing that up for me. --Evnyofdeath 20:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Plan B
I just saw a subbed version of what happen in aqua story after she fought Vanitas in Radiant Garden, he says that she is strong and that she would be his plan B then after leaving she tells her to become stronger. So i was thinking for create the X-Blade it is only necessary a heart of pure light(which aqua have) and a heart of pure darkness(as we know vanitas, so I was thinking maybe Aqua would be his plan B for create the X-Blade for the case of Ventus's heart keep weak. I know it look stupid but it kinda make sense so... what you guys think?--Xabryn 00:52, April 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe Nomura confirmed that Vanitas was indeed talking about using Aqua as a "spare" incase it didn't work with Ventus in an interview somewhere (check KHInsider, it should be a fairly recent link). And yup, it only has to be a heart of pure darkness and a heart of pure light to make the X-Blade. Doesn't matter who they're from. EDIT: Here's the link: -- Lapis of the Night  01:04, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * When I clicked that link, it didn't take me anywhere, I just got a 'this site does not exist' thing --Evnyofdeath 05:46, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Who would say that I say right for once, thanks Lapis--Xabryn 01:42, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

@Envyofdeath: Weird, it works when I click on it. Check the second archive on KHInsider's main page, and look for the headline about "Plot mysteries" if it still doesn't work.-- Lapis of the Night  06:00, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. My computer just has this weird habit if I click a link that doesn't lead to a site, I wind up at this site called desktop smily search........ --Evnyofdeath 06:03, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

That article really helped me explain many of the games plot points. Now I know why Aqua hesitated when she saw Sora. Naruto195 19:51, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas Thoughts
/Users/period1/Desktop/ucard.png Hey! For all who don't know me, I am DialgaMan. I have a question. Does anyone know why Vanitas feels the need to make Ven stronger?

To create the X-Blade and become one again Kaihedgie 14:32, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

You see, to create the X-blade you need two people with equal strength and hearts of pure light (Ventus) and darkness (Vanitas) but Ven used to be weaker than Vanitas so he needed to make him stronger so when they fight the X-blade would be created. Get it?--No.i 16:09, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

A Pretty Useless Trivia
You know when Vanitas was defeated for the time by Aqua, his belt vanished but the shadow thingy of the belt is still there. Yeah it's a pretty dumb trivia.— Wing Blade

Hayley Joe Osment for Vanitas
Obviously he hasn't been confirmed as a voice actor but if he is in the game does anyone believe he will voice Vanitas. Heck he made Sora sound a bit intimidating in Re Chain of memories so he should definetly be able to do the evil voice and laugh thing. --Nathbud789 00:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you listen to his voice closely in the E3 trailer, he does sound like Hayley, only with a lower voice. --BlazeStrife 07:22, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Is Vanitas really just a pawn?
Thanks Kaihedge and No.i for answering my question earlier. Now I have another. Why is Vanitas loyal to Master Xehanort? Surely a being of darkness such as Vanitas must have its own plans for victory? If not, does this mean that Vanitas was purposefully created by Master Xehanort this way so vanitas would be a pawn and no more? 169.139.1.20 15:24, May 27, 2010 (UTC)DialgaMan, the master of Time

Trivia or Reference?
The reason for Vanitas's naming is formatted in a way that could actually improve formatting of the article if the explanation beneath the trivia fact was changed to a note/reference. - 22:46, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Unversed?
Vanitas isn't an Unversed and he isn't a Heartless either. His a human with a heart of pure darkness and is also made from complete darkness - JTD95 13:56, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong. Vanitas does not have a heart. He was simply born from all of the darkness harbored in Ventus' heart, but that doesn't mean that he himself has one. We consider him an Unversed because his very origin, essence and nature says so, not to mention he spawned them. Kaihedgie 15:12, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

And yet, Vanitas did not release a heart upon his demise and while Ventus did. Yes the X-Blade is formed from hearts of light and dark. MX seems to have bypassed this by using the darkness of the heart to counteract with Ventus' now truly-pure light. heart You seem to have forgotten that the Unversed disappeared with Vanitas when he was vanquished. Vanitas and the Unversed are one in the same, and thus, in a previous section we called him the 'king' or 'first' Unversed Kaihedgie 16:39, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

1: I saw no heart release when he died 2: They are considered "the opposite of human life" and grow from the negative emotions produced when Vanitas was distilled from Ventus. Negative emotions=darkness. Kaihedgie 17:13, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Negative emotions have always resulted in darkness, we've seen it Riku, Master Xehanort and Terra, three very noble and strong people. Vanitas is literally darkness incarnate, exhibiting all of the traits associated with darkness users and is in ways, a plague. Kaihedgie 17:28, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas isn't a Unversed he is not made of negative emotions, he is not a heartless but it is similar to one, he have the dark half of Ventus's heart and negative emotions create darkness but they're not darkness, besides if we're going to cosidere Vanitas something a heartless is the best choice, he is created in a similar way to Sora's heartless, have a body and a heart made fully of darkness and the yellow eyes that are usually connected to darkness but are mainly in heartless (P.S.:I'm not saying that we should just saying that it would make more sense that putting that it is an Uversed)--Xabryn 23:30, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The dude IS made of negative emotions. He's shown to be more haughty, rude and downright cruel than any of the incarnations of Xehanort. Master Xehanort used to be a good guy and during a couple of flashbacks, we do see some of his good-sided nature. Xemnas still longed for a heart and some of Terra influenced him to a degree. He's pure evil and doesn't even have any remorse for the things he's done. This is the same boy who wouldn't even hesitate to turn on his own master, and given the circumstances, if Vanitas and Master Xehanort had succeeded in defeating Terra, Ven and Aqua, Vanitas would have undoubtedly turned on his master and continue to spread his darkness across the universe.

If Vanitas was a Heartless, then Xehanort's Heartless would have been able to spawn Unversed as well. The circumstances between the births of Ansem and Vanitas were different. Xehanort went through the same split transformation any other Organization member went through: he lost his heart to the darkness and was given form, becoming a Heartless while his body lingered on to become a Nobody. Vanitas was created from the darkness residing in Ventus. Mind you Ventus was able to retain his heart and didn't vanish as a result, but the extraction undoubtedly messed his sh*t up since his heart experienced a sudden inbalance now that he no longer had darkness so calling him a Heartless is far off. Kaihedgie 23:48, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that you get what I'm trying to say, he isn't a heartless but is more similar to the heartless than to the Unversed, so it would make more sense to say in the articles that he is a heartless and he is made of Ventus's heart dark side not of negative emotions, he feels because he have a heart but he only have negative feeling because his heart don't have any light and i guess, I'm not saying that it is, that even heartless have a light that never goes out, just like every heart have a dark part,Ventus and the 7 pincess are exception just like Vanitas is to the other part which i think that caused the Unversed to appear, but they are confusing, what I know is that Vanitas isn't a Unversed he isn't a heartless and he is not made of negative emotions--Xabryn 00:06, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe Ventus just wasn't the greatest guy before the Neoshadows jumped him? I mean, Sora had enough darkness in him to become a Shadow when his heart was taken, instead of going catatonic like Kairi, while Ventus was about to full-on die. Especially with a teacher like Xehanort, it's possible that Xehanort encouraged the darkness to grow in Ventus, just like he later did with Terra, but Ventus didn't have enough remaining light for it to survive on its own. Glorious  CHAOS!  02:20, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Ventus seemed like a pretty sweet kid and Master Xehanort was a pretty good fellow still. Getting Ventus to use the darkness as a weapon was about as likely as Vanitas preaching about Light. It's pretty much an established fact that everyone is born with both light and darkness in their hearts, no matter how good-natured they are. Kairi is the exception because she is a Princess of Heart; no darkness. Kaihedgie 03:10, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

The cutscenes don't suggest anything and I can trust the Ultimania as about as far as I can throw it. We consider him an Unversed because, as I've said before his very nature and origin heavily implies he is so and when he died, they went with him. Kaihedgie 21:27, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to stress a point with that bad analogy with Vanitas and a factory;

When you wreck a factory, the creations that spawn from it will not magically collapse. They still work just fine. When Vanitas dies, the Unversed die. A car is not an extension of a factory. Kaihedgie 02:37, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

I have explained in a couple places that Vanitas is an Unverse, but only by technicality. In the KH Universe, humans are beings of the Realm of Light with hearts that are comprised of light and darkness. Legends within the series claim that at a time humans existed with hearts of pure light, but now only a select group of seven humans have this right.

The Unversed are beings of pure darkness and are extensions of Vanitas' negative emotions. Nomura himself has described them as the opposite of human life.

Vanitas is a human with a heart of pure darkness. Although he was extracted from another human, Vanitas' heart of darkness is his own (we know this to be true because the X-Blade can only be created when a heart of pure darkness and a heart of pure light intersect). However, as stated above, humans are denizens of the light and a being with a heart of pure darkness cannot be a denizen of the light. This makes Vanitas a human of the dark realm, or the opposite of human life. Again, this is only a technicality.--XYZ. 18:37, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that (I just beat Ven's Story so this is fresh) Vanitas is a human. Ven was missing a part of his heart after Van was born, Correct? Where did that piece go...it didn't just vanish, now did it. It formed Vanitas. Vanitas has HALF of a heart where as Unversed have nothing. In the KH Canon I believe that if one has a heart that makes them human or a heartless and Van clearly isn't a heartless. As said before the closest thing to describe Vanitas is that he is a Human of the Dark Realm. This is one of the reasons I kinda stay away from wiki's A lot of the info is sometimes biases because one set of people believes one thing and another set believes another and It's almost always the Admins who are the ones who win in the end. They can lock pages and re-edit em faster than we can type em. But forgive me for I digress. Oh...and nevermind. Under The Heavens 17:54, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because fansites run by a small team of site admins don't have that problem, right? Glorious  CHAOS!  18:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyway, it's actually totally possible for him to be a Heartless that retained its human form, just like Ansem/Xehanort did. He's certainly made in much the same way as Sora's Heartless was. Glorious  CHAOS!  18:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think Vanitas and the Unversed are diffrent. Since Vanitas is Ventus's other half of the heart that holds darkness. Vanitas said that Unversed is an extension of himself. Yen Sid said the Unversed are a creature of negativy. That means the Unversed is a pieces of negative emotion of darkness. Or another way of saying Vanitas = Pure Darkness. Unversed = Pieces of Negativy that represent Darkness. --Cococrash11 08:09, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I see all these analogies, and I think, "Huh? did everyone here forget KHII's Hollow Bastion?  Saix?  Remember?  Saix could control Heartless even though he was a Nobody.  With this exception in mind, it makes sense that Vanitas doesn't have to be an Unversed to control the Unversed.  Or we could even go back to the VERY FIRST game, where we see Maleficent, Jafar, Ursula, Oogie Boogie, Captain Hook, and Riku controlling the Heartless, despite the fact that they were all whole persons.  Point: Vanitas is not an Unversed, he's really something we've actually never seen before--half of a heart, really.  Recall Ventus' Awakening at the very beginning of the game.  The chunk of his heart that "slipped away?"  That's Vanitas.  In the case of Ventus and Vanitas, two halves of the same whole compensated for two hearts because the one heart (ventus) was separated into two hearts (light = Ventus and dark = Vanitas). Like some people have said, Vanitas is closer to a Heartless than an Unversed, but he's not technically a Heartless himself. Actually, think of it this way: Riku in his dark form can be considered to be what would have happened if Ventus had accepted the darkness like Master Xehanort wanted. Because Riku accepted the darkness, there was no need to extract it. It's possible this is why Nomura made Vanitas' outfit nearly identical to Riku's Dark Mode. Key of Destiny 16:21, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Dark Suit
It is an interesting theory and would explain things. Unfortunately, we don't really see any connecting of Vanitas' and Master Xehanort's hearts. We've never seen Vanitas actually having anything that could pass for a heart, much less releasing one upon his death. My theory is that the dark suit is a conscious fashioning of Master Xehanort. I don't think the suit has anything to do with the heart since the Riku Replica supposedly doesn't have a one. Kaihedgie 01:23, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yes you're right about Repliku and his fake heart but i guess that darkness act differently of light and i guess that it can be sustained alone. BTW I liked your Vanitas avatar--Xabryn 03:04, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Read Xehanort Report 10, it states that from his extraction, Vanitas is stronger than Ventus. In fact, it states that Vanitas is too strong. Also take into account the process in which Vanitas was extracted and collected, Master Xehanort summoned Neo Shadows and released them onto Ventus and then he unlocks Ventus' heart with his Keyblade. Because there are Seven Hearts of Pure Light, it is obvious that a heart can exist without darkness, but in this case the process in which the pure light was obtained nearly destroyed the heart and that's why Ventus had to link his own heart to Sora's.--XYZ. 18:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas looking like Sora
Ok, its obvious that they made Vanitas look like Sora to make the connection between the two people, but if you take into account Sora's age at the time, he's only a wee pup and Vanitas takes the shape of Sora whe he's 15. So could we assume that technically Sora looks like Vanitas, and not vice versa? I'm thinking that whe Ven's heart found its way into Sora it affected what he would look like when he was around the same physical age as Vanitas.

Or maybe nobody really thought that detail out and its just a fluke. Axel's Sentiment

I believe this was discussed earlier at this page... Anyway, it has been stated by Nomura that the reason Vanitas looks like teenage Sora is because young Sora's and Ventus's hearts connected, and Vanitas was still dependent Ventus because he is the physical embodiment of Ventus's darkness. Therefore, he took on the appearance of an aged Sora with black hair and yellow eyes. (He wasn't born with Sora's features. He gained them due to the connection between Sora and Ven. Had Ventus connected with Riku, Vanitas would look like KHII Riku.) Tamroc7 01:35, June 15, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I sorta realized that a little bit after I posted it. But thanks for the clarification. 65.100.110.18 01:40, June 15, 2010 (UTC)Axel's Sentiment

Actually I think that he would looks like Riku with 15 since Ventus is 15 at the bbs time, but this is just my speculation--Xabryn 01:44, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oh thanks so much, I was just going to ask this very question. I'm glad I don't have to now. KyrianXVII 17:24, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Well Now I'm a Lil Grumpy...

 * Can you post what you want it to look like below, and I'll post it over. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:38, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
Should a possible parallel between Sora's Heartless creating the Bug Blocks and Vanitas creating the Unversed be mentioned?--ΧƳƵach. 19:34, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Evil Impossibility ?
a character cannot be pure evil (sin reserves that spot), but they simply do things as they see fit. The acts themselves may be evil, but the intentions of a character are either selfish, misguided, or both. A character presented as 'pure evil' is normally boring, but can a being made from evil (darkness) truly be evil? or just the product of another action or selfish reason of another? vanitas' mind set is, 'I don't see it as bad, just as self preservation, enjoyment, or self promotion'. once again,'self' appears. Thoughts? --Oh,how the sea calls

Vanitas is literally every ounce of darkness from Ven's heart. By Kingdom Hearts-standards, that equates to pure evil. Moreso than MX, who is simply corrupted by darkness. Vanitas is darkness.23:04, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think you should sign your posts. Also, I think we have no idea what Vani's motivations were, so we would only be speculating. --  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  23:06, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Forgot to sign it. And Lapis is right I suppose. 'Pure evil' is just a really over used term. Oh,how the sea calls 23:15, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I did sign my post.Oh,how the sea calls 23:16, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I signed your (first) post. --  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  23:19, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

I guess it is technically speculation. Hopefully the English release will solve some of the confusion.23:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, hopefully.

Oh,how the sea calls 23:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

He's pretty much shown he's far more evil than any antagonist thus far, and that's sayin' a lot. Kaihedgie 00:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vanitas is as evil as it's possible to be. It's impossible to be pure evil, because evil is just corruption of good, not a thing in and of itself, but he's as evil as he can be. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:21, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Dood, the guy can't do anything EXCEPT evil D: The boy's a plague. Literally. He threatens the entire universe just by existing. And you honestly think a primal force of nature is just simply gonna hand over the key to Kingdom Hearts to Master Xehanort when he can just easily betray him? Kaihedgie 01:55, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

What, were you expecting him to be good at all? maggosh 02:05, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Think this over: Ganondorf from Zelda is a being of pure evil. Ganon is the fomr he takes when he transform. It is possible to be fulyl evil,Vanitas for example is. Naruto195 06:55, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make any sense. If you had a force that was purely evil, purely destructive, it would instantly destroy itself, which would be a good thing. "Pure evil" is a contradiction in terms. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:35, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, Vanitas is literally all of the darkness in Ven's heart. There's no light (i.e. good) left to corrupt, is there? It's not possible for pure evil to exist naturally, but through artificial means, maybe it can. And Ganon wasn't totally evil, not from his tone in Wind Waker's ending, but that's another debate entirely.07:42, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Well then again its a debate on motivation, nature, perspective, and acts. According to Christians (I am one) the only thing that is pure evil is sin, but this posses two questions (if you look at it from the Christian persecutive). Is darkness sin, and is Vanitas really sinning? Oh,how the sea calls 01:50, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

well darkness could also mean ignorance, falseness, etc but that doesn't really fit here. Oh,how the sea calls 01:52, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sin is not pure evil. In Christianity, there is no such thing as pure evil, because that would imply a dualistic system. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:56, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Pure evil is more complicated than a good rounded villain haha (not bashing Vanitas, they pulled that off perfectly)Oh,how the sea calls 02:00, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Vanitas is the most evil villain in the series. Unlike his master, who was good in the past, this guy was born bad. his very existence threatens the worlds, he doesn't care about anything but himself, and he would have most likely double-crossed Xehanort if they succeeded. I highly doubt he would've handed over the key to Kingdom Hearts when its easier to betray him. PhantomHeartless5

Vanitas spawn?
How does the Vanitas' sentiment exist? Is it the last unversed or just an item similar to the lingering sentiment?

Proununctuation
I was about to write on that- it seems that Leonard Nimoy might have just pronounce it weird, because the art (his namesake) and the way the Japanese would (Vahh nee Tahhs). Oh,how the sea calls 14:44, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

His Heart
In KH1 when a regular heart is released from a regular person it looks like a Heart, but when Sora releases the PoH's Hearts from the KoPH and Kairi's Heart from inside him their Hearts look like orbs of Light. When Vanitas is created it shows MX extract the Darkness, and it froms a new Heart, that has the appearance of an orb of Light. One would think it would look like an orb of darkness seeing as Vanitas is essentially the exact opposite of a PoH. --Evnyofdeath 04:40, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Then why did the guy in the beginning of KH who lost his heart and became a Soldier in front of Sora have a Heart that looked like a valintines heart instead of an Orb of Light? --Evnyofdeath 04:47, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

We have to remember that KH1 came out 8 years ago (minor note, BbS was almost 8 years to the day for the US). Some of this old stuff have probably been re-imagined. The "heart" in KH is more of a symbolic/mystical thing and as BbS is before the outbreak of the Heartless I don't think there's THAT much darkness to be seen. Vanitas is something different from Human but he isn't an Unversed nor a Heartless. I think we can all agree that Vanitas is Vanitas, a being of pure darkness. I also think that he HAD been able to fuse with Ventus properly, the KH universe would be a very different place, Vanitas probably would have killed Master Xehanort and either shaped it into a place of negativity or destroied it simply because he could. --Hyperwre_2.0 19:05, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Nomura's Reasoning
Nomura said Vanitas looks like Sora because Sora melded hearts with Ven right? Well that doesn't make sense to me. I'll try and explain it the best I can.

Vanitas was created in the keyblade graveyard and immediately took the form of Sora which put Ventus in a catatonic state for sometime, for how long we don't know but Ventus only awakened from that state upon meeting Sora's Heart in the Destiny Islands after Xehanort took him there. Vanitas couldn't have taken Sora's appearance because Ven and Sora hadn't met upon his (Vanitas') creation. As far as I know. Although I may be completely off. Under The Heavens 17:40, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

The reason is because Vanitas had no real face. When Ven's heart was connected by Sora's AFTER he got to Distiny Island. Nomura said that because Ven's heart was connected to Sora's, Vanitas looked like Sora. Naruto195 17:44, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I saw not only his face but his Sora-esque hair upon his creation...Lemme watch this again. *Turns on his PSP* Under The Heavens 17:56, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Nope...I was wrong! Well thanks for the info, Naruto195 Under The Heavens 18:04, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Its perfectly fine. Naruto195 18:05, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vanitas is not a being of his own - he is merely an extension of Ventus, as was Sora-Heartless or Ansem. Ventus destroyed that part of his heart, that's why Sora had to lend him more heart at the end of the game.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  18:20, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Return (Spoilers)
after reading the new interview and seeing the secret ending for Re:Coded, I am wondering if he would return. Yen Sid makes a remark on the possibility of MX not returning alone. _ Oh,how the sea calls

oh, how the sea calls. Thank you for bringing this up. Vanitas was either destroyed or returned to ventus for this I'll go with the latter possibility. If he returned to ven then when ven's heart became part of sora's vanitas became part of sora's heart(this could also explain Anti-form a little better) but this is a near impossibility unless nomura is paying attention to the wiki talk page...lol. anyways the part about Xehanort returning with back up could involve the mysterious Unknown from Land of Departure. I would also put my bet on Vanitas returning when they save Ven to try and create the X-blade and some more unknown keyblade wielders that could appear in 3D. Xander19


 * This kind of discussion should be left to the forums as it does not pertain to the article itself.

Face Traits
Where it says "In an interview with Tetsuya Nomura, it is revealed that this similarity is due to Sora's heart connecting with Ventus near the beginning of the game, and had anyone else connected with Ventus's heart, Vanitas would look like that person." That would also explain why Ven's face resembles Roxas ¿Or not? --Lukethehedgehog 13:07, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

We know this hahaOh,how the sea calls 19:34, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

Possible Return?
Has there been any evidence suggesting a return for him? It seems like when Xehanort comes back he will need a "lieutenant."Oh,how the sea calls 22:12, 26 February 2011 (EST)


 * This belongs in the forums. --Xigbar's Replica Data KHIIFM.pngAS IF! Xigbar's Replica Data KHIIFM.png 20:02, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

Novel Backstory?
So, uh, should the backstory of Vanitas from the KH BBS novels be put on the page? Is it considered canonical? --68.173.84.100 06:34, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Probably yes, but it's not considered canon so put the at the start and  at the end of the section. 13:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh. Where was it said that it wasn't canon? I would put it if I wanted to, but I'm not very good at stuff like that, so uh, yeah. --68.173.84.100 04:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * We consider the manga and novels to be separate from the in-game canon, so they get bookended by the and  templates. You can just write what you want right into the "Story" section, and put the templates as written here before and after, or if you're not comfortable, put it right below on this page and we'll put it in for you.  -- 04:43, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If you decided to do it yourself, you can use this as an example. 08:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait, we consider the novels non-canon? 06:30, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I know the only thing we considered as canon is the game._. 07:03, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Us, sure, but what evidence do we have for that? I thought Nomura stated that the novels were meant to be canon. 21:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This canon stuff can get confusing, can't it? --68.173.84.100 13:34, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, not really. All published materials are considered canon unless specifically stated otherwise. What I'm asking is, where was it stated otherwise for the novels. 17:39, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Pure Evil
I'm not sure if he should be considered "pure evil", if his novel backstory from the other Wiki is right all he wanted was to unite with Ventus to end his pain, in a way he was just manipulated by MX like everyone else. 00:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Now hold on.
Unknown3619 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC) Why is Vanitas a offical KH:3D Character? He was destroyed. Yeah im aware that he made a apperance in the New Trailers. But are we even sure that was canon? I mean he could have been put in that shot for emphasis when Young Xehanort said: "not one.... you have two hearts inside you". Say what you want, im not entirely convinced he will return.

Drive form
Does anyone else notice that when you fight vanitas he floats in the air and releses glass looking things? thats what Sora does when he goes into a drive form. Whe you use drive he always yells: give me strengh, or light. And when he does he floats for a second and relases that glass looking things. Does vanitas have a drive form then? Unknown3619 15:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect Information Regarding Ventus
Master Xehanort is not trying to make Ventus form the X-Blade. It is questionable whether or not a heartless would even work as the "heart of pure darkness," but suppose it could: Then that would make Ventus the "heart of pure light." So why does Xehanort want him to use the power of darkness? That would be less-than-pure-light. In fact, he makes his motive clear in one of his reports--at first, he was trying to make Ventus his vessel, but when Ventus refused to use the darkness, THEN he decided to use him to forge the X-Blade. The reason he had Ventus fight those Heartless is the same reason he had Terra fight all of the opponents that he did--to awaken his dark powers so that he could be a suitable vessel. I'd edit myself, but I'm in a bit of a rush, & I'm not sure my FF Wiki account carries over here anyway.75.195.21.105 12:04, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that's correct. The scene clearly presents itself as the creation of Vanitas, while the report implies that there was some time between Xehanort discarding Vanitas as a vessel and choosing him as the heart of pure light. I mean, the reports are at least what Nomura was trying to convey with the story, so if there's no clarification we have to go with it, but I'd feel more comfortable if we could get an explicit explanation from Nomura.
 * Can we find anything about this in the BbS Ultimania? 14:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm getting mad. There shouldn't BE an edit war, I HAVE a source. There is nothing to dispute! He says, plain as day, "I decided I would use him for another purpose I had in mind. I would split his heart, then I would have my heart of darkness & my heart of light." He decides to create Vanitas & use Ventus for the X-Blade at the same time. There IS no other way to read this. I waited several days for someone to come up with information that refutes this, & NO ONE has any. Oh, & supposedly, the page is going to go back to the way it was. If so, that's incredibly convenient. There's a dispute, but only one side needs to provide (unrealistic) evidence? Can we just drop the bureucratic nonsense & let me correct this, already?Neo Bahamut 20:21, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I wasn't GIVEN any explanation for why my edits weren't sticking until I "flipped out." I was just told that my explanation wasn't good enough, & to find a "real source." When I've fought out an Edit War, had the page locked to prevent my interference, & I STILL have no freaking idea why I'm being fought tooth-&-nail on the subject, the time for pleasantries is officially over. THIS time, it was an unfortunate misunderstanding, but all too often, Edit Wars are nothing more than a persistant rumor that refuses to die, no matter how many times you explain it away.Neo Bahamut 02:28, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Neo, your version of the pages are the ones that are currently locked in, and reverting to before the edit war is what most wikis do. All that's being asked is that both sides provide evidence besides that one report, since the interpretation of that report is the crux of the dispute.98.223.102.157 06:54, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The page said that it WOULD be reverted back to the way it was before. I can't really predict the future, I can only write based on what is supposedly going to happen. That said, I acknowledge that I have been clearly disproven on this issue. That raises further questions about what exactly was supposed to happen in that scene, but eh. It is unfortunate that this whole mess happened. Hopefully, it will be the last of its kind.Neo Bahamut 14:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

DDD
Why exactly does Vanitas appear next to Xehanort in DDD?
 * I'm guessing probably due to what he and Xehanort say "You harbor hearts other than your own.", specifically and directly meaning Ventus's heart, as Kairi's left during KH1. So it was supposed to give more meaning that they show Vanitas, as Ventus's heart is within Sora. 10:07, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Does that mean that Vanitas' heart is inside Sora?
 * No, Ventus's heart is within Sora, while Vanitas, a being of pure Darkness, is probably part of the new Org XIII from what I can deduce. 14:39, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I found a Nomura interview!
 * — Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?

Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
 * — What about Vanitas?

Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

Sign your posts, ohfortheloveofgod. -- 22:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Im an anon since I forgot my password but I could still sign my posts with my old name, also we should add this info to the page. User:Vanitas
 * Oh we already have...oops, anyway, where exactly is Vanitas? is he just a heart wandering around or is he with Young Xehanort or Sora? Or maybe a member of the new Org?User:Vanitas

Xehanort
The Kingdom Hearts Wiki on Wikia claims that Vanitas' heart is inside Xehanort's, similar to Sora and Ventus, shoukd we state this on our wiki.--124.168.242.102 03:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, because it's speculation. 04:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Why Young Xehanort can time travel
Ive figured out how he time travels with a body, he doesnt, since Vanitas is bodiless he can time travel, so He put his heart inside Young Xehanort so that Xehanort would be able to time travel.--58.7.180.103 09:34, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So Sora can travel time three time faster? --ShardofTruth 11:44, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh lord, why have you cursed us with such logic? 13:58, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Vanitas since he has no body can time travel, that much we know.--124.168.235.215 08:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas has a body, a body made of darkness, he says it himself "Now that my body is about to perish, you and I will have to join together", just because his body is made of darkness doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Besides even if he were lacking a body doesn't mean he can time travel, I mean just because he can do it doesn't mean he knowns how--Xabryn 10:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas has no body in Dream Drop Distance, he is just a heart/soul in this game.--124.168.235.215 10:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

UTC)
 * "Well Vanitas since he has no body can time travel, that much we know." We know no such thing. Not having a body is a requirement for going back in time, but it does not follow that because he has no body he automatically can time travel. Besides, you'd have to explain how vanitas separated from ventus's heart again without any outside influence, of which there is none. -- 10:34, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Well it is stated in the Nomura interviews that Vanitas has no body due to its destruction and he is simply a heart, Sora can only see him physically because of Ventus' heart reacting inside him.--124.168.235.215 10:31, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Source, please. 15:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * http://sqex.info/2012/05/kh3d-ultimania-scenario-mysteries/.--220.235.10.64 10:57, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It absolutely does not say anything like that. It says that Sora sees Vanitas due to Ventus's heart reacting inside him.70.34.147.3 16:11, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Possibility
Since Vanitas was reabsorbed into Ventus's heart, which then fused with Sora's. Doesn't that make Vanitas the darkness in Sora's heart too? If so that means that the Darkside that Sora encounters at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts is Vanitas' representation inside Sora's heart. It also means the Twilight Thorn in Roxas' heart is the same and also the Armored Ventus Nightmare and the AntiSoras. If this is true it should be put on the page.--Vanitas (talk) 12:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that right there is massive amounts of speculation. While it's an interesting theory you've developed, there is absolutely no proof that it is true, and there likely won't be any proof, especially until the next installment comes out. 14:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Its not a massive amount of speculation, though yes it is speculative.--Vanitas (talk) 15:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's massive speculation because you provide no proof. maggosh 15:14, 25 August 2012 (UTC)