Forum:Where will we go?

Initial vote
THE INITIAL VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29 {|class="wikitable collapsible collapsed" !

Move

 * 1) (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14:54, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:01, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) --I&#39;m so bored 15:05, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  So  x  ra  ]] 17:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19:50, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 21:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  21:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Shard of Truth 21:52, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) -- Random! to a point!  22:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) BlackSoulBlade 22:48, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Falcos 18:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Don't move

 * 1) SeanWheeler 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) LightRoxas 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) User:Master Vantius --Master Vantius 00:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Where to?
THE VOTING IS NOW CLOSED - Oct 29

ShoutWiki

 * 14:55, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:14, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wikkii

 * Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * maggosh 15:58, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I think private hosting is the best option, it's not feasible for a community like this. So  x  ra  ]] 17:41, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * BlackSoulBlade 22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:15, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Falcos 01:05, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Private hosting
Please provide comments on your proposal
 * I've already stated what I though would be optimum, through the utilization of MediaWiki.
 * }

REVOTE
''If you agree to a revote based on the new circumstances, please replace your name here with your signature. All previous voters must agree to revote for it to proceed.''


 * 17master
 * BlackSoulBlade
 * Erry
 * Falcos 07:24, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * JfHavoc
 * (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:18, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17:22, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 20:04, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * LightoftheDarkness
 * LightRoxas
 * maggosh
 * --Master Vantius 22:12, November 9, 2010 (UTC)Master Vantius
 *  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  16:23, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Randomnessity
 * Riku&#39;s Love
 * SeanWheeler
 * Sephiroth0812 20:03, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 16:40, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * ShardofTruth
 * SilverCrono
 * So x  ra  ]]
 * The Inexistent


 * I decline the revote. maggosh 16:28, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * THE MOTION IS KILLED, THE MOVE TO WIKKII WILL PROCEED AS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. CAPSLOCK IS FUN.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dammit, Mag! -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  17:03, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I second Neumannz's outburst. -- 00:17, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I second DTN's seconding. -- 02:42, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even though I didn't vote the first time (big mistake), I second Havoc's seconding of DTN's seconding.
 * I agree with these guys^-- 02:54, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^this BlackSoulBlade 03:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * What they all said *points up* 03:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I concur with the majority. --"Never fear ... Superdog is here!" Yipee! :D 04:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123

So basically, Maggosh, you've got yourself a looooooooot of people pissed at you right now-- 04:13, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * If my vote counts, then you have it! Bud0011 04:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Okay, I revoke my declination. Back to the Continuum! *snaps fingers* maggosh 05:39, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I revoke my vote because enough is enough, Wikia isn't complying and the current situation is that this place is becoming a fan-based wiki while the official is going onto the new server/database. 16:14, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose I could follow suit with Erry... maggosh 16:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So, does this mean the re-vote is on? What will we be voting on, exactly? --Never fear ... Superdog is here! Yipee! :D 05:43, November 10, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123
 * It appears so. Hopefully, the vote should be clear, like:
 * Move to independent server
 * Move to Wikii
 * Stay here
 * Bud0011 05:49, November 10, 2010 (UTC).

Aaaaaand we're back where we started-- 16:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is where? Bud0011 16:29, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Where we are without question, without a doubt moving no matter what anyone has to say about it-- 16:32, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And is that Bad? Do you guys have somewhere to go? Bud0011 16:36, November 10, 2010 (UTC).
 * Whatever happened to making a SEIWA? y'know, a Square Enix NIWA? I'D vote for that. -- 16:50, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only 3 people showed up in the IRC yesterday: myself, the NIWA coordinator and Zyeriis. I am still interested in helping set it up. Bud0011 16:56, November 10, 2010 (UTC).

Discussion
We could move to another website altogether, like how wow.wikia.com moved to wowwiki.com. -- 19:51, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, but do you have any details on how we'd do that?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  20:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I actually don't. I was thinking we could ask them how they did it, if I wasn't shot down. Sorry, that was just a suggestion :/ -- 20:59, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said here, we could create our own website.

There is still Monobook after Monaco is gone. They are just keeping Monobook. If we move, we won't have Monaco because that is wikia exclusive. SeanWheeler 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

There has to be a way we can work it out without moving. LightRoxas 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

While polls (basically votes) don't solve jack, I still want the wiki to be a good place for readers, not for... wait, it's not really good for anyone...


 * Although they are keeping monobook, it will not be the automatic skin, so our pages would still look like shit. Monaco's features can almost certainly be replicated on any css we make.
 * Also, please don't place comments in the voting section. We've gone back and forth on thus forever without reaching consensus; we all know what each other will say. At this point, we need to be focusing on how we proceed from our discussions.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  22:37, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, 1, ShoutWiki loads like crap. Not good. Wikii or whatever may be fine, but, as Shard said above, it may be lacking that ability to customize. And second, what would happen to kingdomhearts.wikia.com? If we were to delete all articles and images on the site, Wikia would see it was vandalism and revert everything back to life, which, would, in effect, create two Kingdom Hearts wikis, and as mentioned before in another thread by Kryten, Google and other search engines will tend to side with Wikia and Wikipedia. That solves nothing. What the hell are we going to do? If we are voting, wouldn't it be better to give the staff the ability to vote twice, thus doubling thier power? Two votes for ShoutWiki is better than one.


 * We wouldn't delete anything. This wiki would still exist, and it would still be open for anyone to edit. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify, google will side with wikia originally, but as we continue to edit at the new address, and this one continues to stagnate, we will begin getting top billing again. Also, I think Shard was talking about Oasis lacking the ability to customize, since wikkii lets you do whatever you want to your wikis, for free.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:12, October 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point. Even if we all leave, a whole new batch of users will take over.  Eventually, they will adopt an order that will keep this place running, so, in other words, they will be on par with us... if we move.  oh, and could a staff member sticky this thread, please?  Oh, and Kryten, can you define "whatever you want", please.
 * Unlikely. We are the ones who keep the wiki running so fast - if the current community leaves, it is highly unlikely that anyone who moves in will be anywhere near as driven as us. After all, if they were such hard workers, they'd be here already, wouldn't they?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * wikkii:, , ,.
 * I am seeing a significant problem in interwiki linking. This could be solved in several ways, if wikkii remained unwilling to add the entries to the interwiki database (don't know why they wouldn't, though) -


 * Create a Template:w that replaced the X with, and design a bot with a task being to add that everywhere.
 * Do the same without a bot.
 * Replace all the interwiki links with direct html links, with or without a bot.
 * I'd much prefer that they edit the interwiki database, though, since that seems much, much quicker.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Eh. Reading through some of their tech support forums (granted, they are a year old), it is starting to look like wikkii might be lacking quite a few features that we require simply to function as we do now. We really need a staff member to contact them and see what they have working. Specifically, remember to ask about favicon, interwiki linking, checkuser, allowing edits from ips and allowing editors to register, uploading images, uploading .ogg, .gif, .png, full wiki backups, namespaces, etc. This is beginning to look far inferior to anything could put up ourselves, despite what they advertise.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Followup: It seems that most of these features can be reenabled if we upgrade to Advanced Hosting. (Rules) We would need someone code literate to handle things, though, and we'd have to wait until we'd been there for a month to upgrade.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

One question about Shoutwiki and Wikii, will our editcounts be reset? I hope this doesn't make me seem like a person that cares too much about editcount, but I'm still curious about it.

@Inexistent: Well, that's certainly a risk. We are basically assuming that as a community that's been established we'd do a better job at adding content, staying up to date, etc, and that we'd stand above anyone who takes over here. It's possible that won't be the case, but it'll still be easier for us to do our business somewhere else. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  23:27, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

You guys understand that if we do move, we'll have to delete this wiki, or else erase all of its content? Because if you just leave it here to gather dust, it will start to spoil. As in, people will come in and try to take control. There will be no one to moniter vandalism, all that stuff. This is still the Kingdom hearts Wiki representing Wikia. If we're leaving, then we should either delete this wiki and all of its content or appoint new administrators who are willing to stay behind and won't whine about the new theme that isn't Monaco. Just saying. -- 01:30, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * But Lego, there's the thing. Wikia will not delete a wiki unless it was abandoned at its birth.  And, as I mentioned above, complete and total deletion would be undone.

We can't delete the wiki. At any rate, the staff will have to maintain some presence for a period of time, to keep vandalism down and to keep an eye on new editors. If people want to continue on here despite the move, they can, and we might eventually promote new staff to take over. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  01:36, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

In that case we should probably formally get together a group of people who will stay behind and keep this wiki from going to the dogs. I volunteer-- Shadows  Twilight  01:42, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...Doesn't keeping people here to sync the wikis defeat the purpose of moving to a new wiki, and make it impossible for the new wiki to catch up in the search engines? Yes, it's the Kingdom Hearts wiki representing Wikia, and Wikia made it a shit-hole. Which is why we have a new site, which will be very clearly not a shit-hole.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:10, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Point. Although I didn't say anything about keeping them synched or keeping this one up to date. We would still need to be available to editors who want to take over, should the event arise. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  02:14, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT!!!Who said anything about syncing them, i just don't want this wiki to fall to vandalism, i don't care if it gets updated or not-- Shadows  Twilight Χ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS.png 02:17, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ....why? What's the point of upkeep if it's just going to stagnate in a different manner? Seriously, you guys looked at tfwiki.net when I first mentioned it, right? The original wikia site has stagnated completely, and the edits added are worthless. It's vandalism under another name, basically.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:23, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you don't want to, that's fine with us-- Shadows  Twilight  02:28, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

KKD's right. Give the wiki a few months before we up and pack all of our bags. I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it. I still prefer Monaco, but Monaco will be gone. I'm not going to whine about it, as countless people are doing. Another thing, this forum and vote is a little secluded from the community, why not move it to the front page? Or put the news in flashing letters on the page, maybe even its own box or something. Anyway, if we do move the wiki, I'll want to continue editing here as well as the new one. Also, what about the IRC channel? If we're splitting from wikia, it can't exactly be called #wikia-kingdomhearts. -- 19:34, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Unregistered contibutors and readers can't customize it though, can they? It may suck for us as editors, but they don't even have the ability to improve it if they wanted to. EDIT And this isn't like "preemptively bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki". We're ditching Wikia after giving them multiple chances to try and fix things, not attacking them for no reason.00:32, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget, they're still working out kinks. I'm not saying that I like the new skin, but I'm just saying to give it a little time. I'm actually getting used to it, and although it's not the same, it still functions. I know it screwed up a lot of articles, but again, I'm agreeing with the others and saying that we should not move just yet.  Chitalian  8   00:44, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it." - which is why it is still unacceptable. Whatever skin we have, it must be accessible to ALL users. If Oasis can only be tolerated by those who have logged in and played with it, then it has failed not only as a skin, but in its own stated purpose.
 * "KKD's right." - KKD is absolutely wrong in everything he said. The release of the skin means it is done, not that they have just produced it. The skin has been out for over a month now, and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them. If you guys want to "give it time", then use it now, with no customizations whatsoever. Get used to what our readers will actually see. Quite frankly, your opinion on whether the skin is acceptable or not is worthless if you have not been doing this.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  00:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Completely right in response to my post.
 * As for your comment on releasing the skin means it's done, that isn't true. Wikia cotinued to make additions to Monaco even in its final moments, so you can't say that what we're getting now is what we're sticking with forever. Heck, they might make changes that will become suitable for KH Wiki, and we'll have been long gone by then. Then we'll want to move everything back. Just saying. -- 01:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them."(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  01:06, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * READ THIS NOW, ALL OF YOU. EVERY SINGLE WORD.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  01:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little off topic here, but has anyone contacted bulbapedia, SmashWiki, and WoWWiki yet?
 * Nope. Somebody should, or else we'll all be here until Nov. 3rd, yelling and arguing to each other. I would say we all need to calm down, but at this point, I believe I would get flamed. Calm down, guys, we can work this out without biting heads off. We don't need to get ignorant like a YouTube commenter or something :/ --
 * Lurking Bulbapedian here. We don't use Wikia AFAIK. 124.188.171.7 10:13, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Personaly, I think Kryten or Bluer should be the ones to contact them. I mean, you can argue with me all you want about this, but Kryten is practically the glue that holds the wiki together. And Bluer, well, he is basically the oldest active admin. I am Megatron1 from SSB Wiki and the person who assisted with many moves. I am here because Miles might not respond. Simply use Special:Export to get pages in files and save those fails. Use Special:Import on your next Wiki host in order to upload those files. If this is not clear, feel free to ask me to explain.-- Mega  Tron1  XD   02:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

This was Miles' response:-- Lapis  Scarab   02:22, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would say get in contact with the NIWA folks through the first email address on this page. NIWA would probably be glad to have you. (I personally didn't do much of the moving work, but I'm sure the NIWAns would be glad to help.)  Miles ( talk)   22:17, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
 * No need to contact us...we've already found you! MWAHAHA!
 * Er, anyways...I'm Neo, the owner of Lylat Wiki, and one of the NIWA staff. I'm here to say that there are options for leaving. If you do go independent, the NIWA would be pleased to affiliate with you and get you into our community. However, you would not be able to join, as you are not a Nintendo related wiki. But don't let that discourage you! If you ask around, you may even be able to get hosting from one of our members. Plus, I'm sure our members would be glad to help you leave Wikia and set up shop somewhere else. They're really cool like that, and they'd be willing to lend their services to you for sure! Like I said, though, we'd be glad to affiliate with you and give you traffic if you become independent. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me. Just send an email to jfolvarcik[at]gmail[dot]com and I'll be happy to get back to you ASAP. Best of luck with your situation!&mdash;Neo(talk) 03:28, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, you may want to change somethings in the wiki, becuase people may still come in and change pages you already exported. see this page and this one for more info. Bud0011 04:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

Thank you guys for this info. It really helps. And, a little off topic, but can someone remove the heading? I'm only asking this because, if you all remember what happened on the Twitter forum, we were constantly adding new headings, and the comments left in the previous headings were left unread. That should definitaly not be done to this thread.

So what's gonna happen? Will we all move to somewhere new and start from scratch, or stay here and somehow work it out? If we're all moving, I'm going too. This wiki has some great people on it (Trois, Kryten, Lapis, Azul, etc.) It would be very difficult to reconstruct a 2000+ page wiki from nothing, but if we all work together, I'm sure we have a shot. But Final Fantasy wiki is staying, so what's the final verdict with us? Mar 21:56, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you don't have to move and start from scratch. You can move, and pickup almost exactly where you left off; just in a new location. Bud0011 22:00, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

Where would we move to? Would we be able to get there easily? My guess is that the link to wiki for kh wiki would just be moved, but I'm not sure. Would it even be the same? Would we be able to keep our talkboxes? And what about the 8 years of forums we've had? And the article talk pages?Mar 22:05, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You would lose some Wikia-only stuff....but none of that is in either list given. Bud0011 22:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

I understand. What qualifies as "Wikia only material"? I know we'll lose monaco forever, but hey, at leasst we have monobook. I just hopeit won't be too radically differet.Mar 22:30, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Monaco's source is actually available, it's a mess and will take more work to clean up, but there's a possibility of using it outside of Wikia. But you also have vector available. The semi-troublesome stuff are images and blocks, the more troublesome stuff are users. Talkboxes are just templates, talkpages are just pages, forums are just pages, just make sure you have the same forum extension installed (it's not a Wikia feature, it's a 3rd party extension that Wikia just installed) and it'll be fine since importing full page history is almost trivial. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 22:38, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

What do you meanby "Users: are troublesome? You mean we'd just lose admin/mod status? Even if we did, we could just immediately get it back, but during that time period, the wiki would be vulnerbale to vandalism.Mar 22:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He means that transferring user accounts is difficult.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  22:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ohhh..... well we could always just create a new account with the same name wherever we're moving to. Or is it possible? If we have to move every single user over there.... we'd mostly just take the more prominent ones, like you or Trois, while the samll yet still important accounts like me get left in the dust...Mar 22:58, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * The tricky part is anyone can resister with the name of a user that had edits and pretend they are them, they basically end up claiming the user's contributions. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 23:13, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

MV undefined
 * We could have the accounts be by approval only at first, and have all the people who want to keep their accounts be assigned a set time to register an account, with an admin confirming afterward with the alleged editor that it was them. It would be time consuming, but it would be the safest way to make sure there isn't spoofing.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  00:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

What about if we have a variable internet connection? Sometimes my modem goes out for weeks at a time and I can't get on the wiki.Mar 00:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Gah, sorry guys. It's not that I don't have an opinion, it's just that real life hit me over the last couple of weeks...very hard. Anyway, I would like to ask what would moving encompass, i.e. who's willing to sign up for and set up the new wiki, who's willing to transfer coding and articles, etc. Breaking down the tasks at this point would make it seem less daunting. Second, do we have a solid lead on a new home? And third, how are the transfers with the major wikis who left or are planning on leaving going? Much as I loathe Oasis, I would rather wait and see what issues occur for other wikis before we jump the gun and end up in the same boat. We might be able to avoid any major problems down the line by learning from them. I like Kryten's idea of approving our established users; for my suggestion, is there some way we could assign everyone a unique "password" in secret rather than a time so we wouldn't have a chance of others spoofing at the approved times? Probably too complicated, but just a thought. 02:51, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the password thing isn't too far off. We could hold a giant IRC thing. Oh, and I'll be willing to do any tasks asked of me.

I agree with the password thing, but I don't know how to access IRC. Can someone please help me out a bit with that? But remember, if you need me, just leave a message on my page, I'll be there(Except during school hours).Mar 03:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do you guys know where you are going? an independent server? web host? Bud0011 04:27, October 29, 2010 (UTC).


 * No. That's the point of this thread.  To figure out where we are going to go.


 * So... $60 a year. That doesn't sound as bad as it could be.  But, Kryten is calling the vote tonight, so we really need to get discussing.  It appears that through our best options, Wikia is the best (at least up until Oasis) WikiFarm.  What are we going to do?  Are we going to give it time?  Or are we going to abandon?
 * If you can afforad it, i recommend going with a webhost. Bud0011 17:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
 * If the price is only 60$ a year, I can handle that easily. Frankly, anything under 1200$ a year I could tolerate. I am not a code guru though, so I would need someone to step up for the technical side of things.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  18:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea, but you can't use tools like Special:Export..... plus you are independent of wiki farms.... Bud0011 19:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
 * Sorry to whoever's edit i just erased.... >< Bud0011 19:20, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

MV undefined

If at all, the time to decide is now. What will we do? Move? Stay? If were moving, I'd like a little explanation on what to do. If we do move, I'm sure we'd all like to keep our accounts, so will it be a secret password, or a scheduled time? If so, where will the message be?Mar 22:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * We're still figuring that out, be patient. The vote above closes tonight, so it loooks like we'll be moving to Wikii judging from that, but this is still very complicated, so bear with us.-- Lapis  Scarab   22:17, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wetpaint is not a MediaWiki wiki host, discussing that is pointless.
 * Shared hosting (that pitiful $5 hosting) is terrible for installing MediaWiki on; The limited configuration really makes getting /wiki/Article style urls a hassle. You have no control over the software, namely you have no way to setup Memcached, which is pretty key once you get any reasonable level of traffic. If you are going to run MediaWiki you're going to want at the very least a VPS.
 * ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 22:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * WikiBound is hosted by and Lylat Wiki is hosted by dreamhost. Both are pretty good webserver hosts. Bud0011 23:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

@Lapis: What is wikii? Is it just basically a wikia clone? @Dantman: I'm sure you're right about those, but I don't really know that much other than what's already been said.Mar 00:40, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Read above to find out what Wikii is. And, what has been said is pretty much all there is. We are feed up with Wikia's new skin, and are arguing on whether or not to move.
 * Okay, so the decision of the wiki is to move, and to wikkii. I do want to say that while wikkii will be our first target, if they are unable to accommodate us we can discuss whether to move somewhere else.
 * I'll try to contact wikkii tomorrow if I get time, and will also look into VPS like Dantman suggests. It would be helpful if another staff member could help do research into private hosting, if it's that cheap.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:43, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or we could, you know, do KKD's plan and wait until the year ends before we pack our bags. -- 03:17, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lego's right, I think we should try the new skin for awhile while preparing to move out at the same time. Also we can consider it our respect for wikia for letting us use its service for so long.

One problem with that: I can NOT navigate wikia with oasis. I wouldn't know how to get to forums or IRC with oasis. Unless they are keeping monobook, in which case I'm good. Then I think we can stay till the end of the year. It'll give us time to set things up at wikkiiMar 03:36, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

It's midnight anyway, according to my clock. I guess what happens is we move to wikkii. But when? and how?Mar 03:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

As I've said, yes, they are keeping Monobook, but that isn't the point. The basic skin is still Oasis, meaning readers will be stuck with the confusing mess it is. This isn't just about us. And again, Mar1, be patient. We're figuring that out. I promise you that we won't keep this a secret once we have everything ready to go.-- Lapis  Scarab   04:26, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that I'm so out of this, but can we not just make the default theme of the wiki monobook? Or did they disallow that as well?
 * That's been disallowed ever since they made monaco the default. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 04:45, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

The best we can do now is just set our preferences to monobook. I have come across a problem though. My computer won't let me use the IRC with either skin. Is it something I'm doing, or is my computer messed up? I log in, and it immediately logs me out. WTH?Mar 05:05, October 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, what? The IRC has nothing to do with the skin.  That should have to do with your web client (like Freenode).

Excuse me for saying this, but I feel like moving is unproductive. Lets say we do move, and we leave this site to gather dust. Then all the unknowing will still continue to use this wiki, which will have outdated information. Or if, like suggested before, we move but have some people stay behind, then we have two wikis. It seems counter productive. Number XIII - LightRoxas - The Key of Destiny 22:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I read it. But it seems like a little too much work over one (albeit horrible) skin. Number XIII - LightRoxas - The Key of Destiny 20:00, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not just the skin why other wiki's are moving, and why we recommend the same for you guys. Also:
 * No more disruptive advertisements.
 * Simpler, less complicated format.
 * No unnecessary updates or implementations (Blogs, Article Comments, Badges, etc.)
 * Less vandalism. With a more secure domain, we won't have to worry too much about that.
 * Organization of things will be easier overall.
 * See this for more info. Bud0011 20:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC).

Hey guys, I've moved a few wikis to private hosting for NIWA and I could do the same for this wiki if you'd like. The wiki wouldn't actually join NIWA, but would become an affiliate. But I guess most importantly, it would be off Wikia. --Porplemontage 08:15, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * This sounds great. Can you fill us with more details about the private hosting (the conditions etc.)? --ShardofTruth 10:45, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking I would host this on kingdomheartsdb.com and we would call the site Kingdom Hearts Database. I'm open to other domain ideas. I'd be able to transfer everything over fairly quickly. If hosting costs increase a lot over time, I'd have to serve ads to logged-out users. Let me know if you have any specific questions. --Porplemontage 19:37, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

Were moving, huh? So what's the plan? E-mail codes? Time codes? Fill us in, tomorrows the last day with monaco. And one more questin: Will wherever we're moving have monaco, or no?Mar 01:20, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Once again, have you read the above conversation? No, it will most likely not have Monaco, unless we want to do some serious coding. And before you start asking why we're moving to a place without Monaco because Wikia is getting rid of Monaco, it is more because of how the new skin, Oasis, effects our readers ability to absorb our content. Other than that, we have no idea what we're doing.

And why can't we move to "kingdomheartswiki.com" and still be the KH wiki? or "KHwiki.com"? Just curious.
 * These domains are not available. --Porplemontage 01:44, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * What?
 * Kindgomheartwiki.com is owned. See this link. Kingdomheartwiki.info and .net are available. Bud0011 02:07, November 3, 2010 (UTC).

Damn. .net sounds okay, though.
 * khwiki.net is open. Would that be okay with everyone, if wikkii turns out to be unacceptable?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  03:43, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * That would be perfect. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  03:47, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. A .NET address is perfectly fine. So  x  ra  ]] 17:38, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Weird to merge with NIWA (Nintendo Independent Wiki Association i think). KH is not part of Nintendo in anyway (besides publishing). --71.243.23.26 19:31, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

We won't have to move! Go to Preferences and click Monobook preview, click Save Settings and the Wikia is not Oasis!--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 20:10, November 3, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Monobook is still far inferior to Monaco. The fact that Monobook isthe better option for editors and not even an option for readers is just the nail in the coffin. Wikia's refusal to listen to the overwhelmingly negative response to the skin is the primary reason I think we should move. But the discussion is over anyway, we held a vote and the overwhelming majority (again) voted to move. Now we're just discussing how to do so. Lapis  Scarab   20:25, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I also think that the .NET adress is a good choice and be associated with NIWA is perfectly fine too, because it's really hard for independend wikis to represent themselves proper. --ShardofTruth 20:37, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

I like the .net adress as well. It makes sense to keep some form of "Kingdom Hearts Wiki" in our domain name, rather than changing it to "Data Base". People know us as the Kingdom Hearts Wiki already. Also, it's not that odd for us to be affiliated with NIWA, since several of the series' games have been on Nintendo platforms exclusively.20:49, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Moving and the remaining wiki
Oh my... has anybody read any of the former comments or threads? NIWA said that they couldn't and wouldn't affiliate with us (i.e.- let us be a part of them).

I don't think you quite read what they said, Inexistent. Affiliating with NIWA (which they have offered) is different than joining with them (which they have disallowed). Affiliating is just them basically advertizing for us, like we do for the KHFanon Wiki. Anyway, @GrandPyromania: The current plan is to try Wikii, but if that doesn't work out it sounds like we'll be doing private hosting.01:11, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm staying too. I may help with the new location, but I won't let the current Wikia just sit and become vandal chum. Tamroc7 19:17, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm an admin for Chronopedia and all for the new change. I'm just not exactly sure what I'll need to do until I get a hand on experience with the new "Chronopedia". Yet I may still edit and stuff in the original Chronopedia until I get a better feel editing in the new area. Zey pher 15:45, November 5, 2010 (UTC) [Admin of Chronopedia]

@Bluer: if you still want to stay with Wikia, that's fine. You'll still have the FFWiki to edit on, staying on this wiki is not a necisity. @Falcos- we don't know when we will be leaving.

I'll be staying too. Number XIII - LightRoxas - The Key of Destiny 20:56, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Darn it Light Roxas, you gave me an edit conflict. Okay, no one edit until I made my message. SeanWheeler 14:36, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we all hate Oasis (myself included), but we would have to accept changes too. In 2008, I think some people hated Monaco too. However, we got used to it and got upset when it is gone. Also, the wikis that moved don't have Monaco. If it was easy to get Monaco, they would have Monaco as their default skin. And what would happen to the Keyblade War? If it moves to the new wiki, what is going to happen to the Keyblade War on this wiki? If it comes to a standstill, I wouldn't be happy. You know how impatient I am. SeanWheeler 14:46, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

@SeanWheeler: I have answered that question at least twice now on different forums. I don't care if you're impatient or not, but you won't be as impatient if you actually bothered to read peoples' responses to your questions.

We should create a separate forum to decide what this wiki will end up doing after the move. This one is about deciding where the "new" wiki will move to. 15:18, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

I've started moving stuff here. If you want to poke around, your Wikia login will work over there. This is not official, so if the community decides to move somewhere else, I'll take this down. Not everything is transferred yet. --Porplemontage 18:52, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Of What Remains
We'll have to see. Perhaps we can set a criterion somewhere, or not. That and real-world coverage.  BLUER   一番   15:43, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

I assume that includes stuff like coverage of interviews and VA and developer profiles and that kind of thing, right? -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  15:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Acceptable fan content is up debate. Same as real world. How much substantial info would it add to the fan community of KH? Its up for debate. As for that crippling KHfanon, depends on what KHfanon contains.  BLUER   一番   15:57, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * About adding fanon content, I think the more topnotch material should be allowed - Avastar: Kingdom Hearts, for example. maggosh 16:04, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh uh, no way! We are not having fanon stuff on this wiki. I approve of having articles on voice actors, but fanon will have to stay on the Twilight Town Library. SeanWheeler 17:45, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

That may not be up to me, but I still don't like it. Putting fanon stuff on this wiki will make it as unreliable as Uncyclopedia. If we want to attract fans, we wouldn't be putting up lies and confuse them. SeanWheeler 18:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

@SeanWheeler: I think you're being overzealous and confusing the point of the two wikis. The current KH Wiki - the one that is moving - is intended to be purely devoted to official information on the main articles, and unofficial topics are contained on things like the forums. Once the wiki moves, the Wikia-Wiki will change in some way to differentiate the two; having it be a fan-oriented database is, I think, a good idea.18:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really want to move. You know yesterday, I looked at the Oasis skin, and it is starting to look better. Sora's page is still readable, and so is Donald and Goofy's. In fact I looked at the forum, and it looks good. Wikia is improving the skin. Fixing the bugs. And we still have Monobook. SeanWheeler 18:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

1) Once again, this isn't just about us not liking the skin (though that is a big part of it). It's about how Wikia is forcing the skin on us, and that readers are still stuck with Oasis. The only thing Oasis has over Monobook (to me) is a better recent changes page, which readers won't see much anyway. 2) If you don't want to move, then don't. No one's making you. I you want to keep voting on TKW, fine, do that, but do it on the oved wiki (or the original one if they continue the contest as well).-- Lapis  Scarab   18:36, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * porplemontage owns this site, in which you can find out other wiki's he helps with. What was the domain you guys agreed to? Bud0011 20:21, November 7, 2010 (UTC).

Too bad that new site doesn't have Monaco! Why couldn't people get Monaco on their new sites if they miss Monaco so much? SeanWheeler 22:33, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm coming in late to this section, but I support this new turn, although the KHWikia wiki would still stay high up on a google listing with all its activity. That could be a problem. Second, who the hell set up the db? Thirdly, this answer is a little late, but to anyone out there who still dislikes the move because it would be "wasting all that hard work we put into it" is wrong. That is crap. To put it in a simple form, pretend that there are two folders on your hardrive, nothing else. One is named kingdomhearts.wikia.com, and the other is named new wiki. Now suppose that the Wikia folder is full of files, documents and images and such, and that the new wiki folder is completely empty. Moving is basically highlighting everything in the wikia folder, copying it, and then pasting it in the new wiki folder. Nothing was lost in this process. Finally, Sean, the new sight can't have Monaco because Monaco is not a public skin. It is owned by Wikia (if this has changed, please inform me).

Okay, I looked at the Anti-Wikia Alliance database and Kingdom Hearts Wiki isn't up there. Don't we need to register to the Anti-Wikia Alliance to move? SeanWheeler 23:35, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not a requirement, just a really good idea. Bud0011 23:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC).

First of all, TNE actually originally singed us up for the AWA. Second, the AWA is in no way offical. Third, why would we have to register with them to move? Fourth, I like the idea, but don't listen much to me, as I will no longer exist, er... inexistent on kingdomhearts.wikia.com. AND, for all noobs reading this: do not start doing fanon stuff yet. Nothing is hammered out.


 * I also wonder why Wikia would let people put forums like that on community central. In fact, why don't they threaten to block all the patriots? Sannse, a Wikia staff member responded on our forums without threatening us. Remember when we thought we were going to lose Monobook until I discovered the week before the deadline that we are keeping it? Maybe they were planning on losing it, then they decided to keep it when fans complained. And also Oasis' purpose is to improve accessability on Wikia. It has a few bugs but they are improving it. Look, Wikia is more lenient compared to us and the patriots. In fact, they may even give us back Monaco at a later time. SeanWheeler 01:36, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Um, no, they said that Monaco is gone for good. It will never return.  And, if you read anything at the top of the AWA page, Wikia knows that it wouldn't do any good to delete the content.  It would still exist and would most likely be restored.  The patriots aren't banned as it would violate Wikia's banning policy.
 * @Inexistent: "fanon" =/= "fan-based". -- 01:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, maybe Monaco is gone for good, but we still have Monobook. And the reason why they switched to Oasis was because some people didn't like Monaco. And they wanted some way to improve the site. They didn't mean to shove a bad skin down our throats. They are improving Oasis for better navigation. SeanWheeler 02:06, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

ARG ARG ARG. For the like 10th time, only the registered users will see Monobook, anons will see Oasis, and they will format their edits accordingly.  Chitalian  8   02:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is not the point. Wikia is improving Oasis. They are trying to make Oasis easier for newer Users. They are trying to help improve their site. Oasis just takes getting used to. That's all. SeanWheeler 02:16, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

The thing is, they're not changing the core issues, like the reduced width, as well as the adjusted galleries. This isn't about getting used to, it's about actually making the wiki look like crap.  Chitalian  8   02:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sean, enough. The move has been decided, there is no changing that. Either give ideas for where we should move, what the original Wikia should become, or stay out of the discussion, you're making us go in circles. And by the way, we know they didn't mean for the skin to suck as gloriously as it does, but they totally meant to force it on us. You can't "accidentally force something on someone.02:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is my summery on the situation:
 * Wikia is a horribly company that cares nothing for the fan's that contribute to it's community. For example, see this. Wikia buy's wikis with empty promises and lies, and then forces it, along with all wiki's under it, to have it to use wikia own's extensions and customizations. Being on your own would give you more control over the wiki and be run by actual fans, not faceless cooperations. Bud0011 02:38, November 8, 2010 (UTC).

Calling Wikia "horrible" and "faceless" is a bit of an exagerration. They are honestly trying to give the layout an easier interface. It works on some levels, and I see where they are going. However, the fact that this is such a template-heavy wiki gives us problems, since we have formatted so many of our changes to Monaco/Monobook. But to accuse them of such things as "empty promises and lies" is a huge overstatement.  Chitalian  8   02:43, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sean, Oasis was not started because people didn't like Monaco. Wikia has a tendency to update things that need no update... but they went to far this time.

Well...I read all the posts in here thus far, and have to agree with the majority who feel the wiki should be moved...I just want to know where...I saw Wikkii got the most votes, so is that where KHWiki is going, or is it going to the site from porplemontage? Eyestothesky 11:58, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Revoting

 * I also wouldn't be opposed to a revote. The Oasis skin is horrible, but I don't like changes such as moving. Also I think merging with the fanon wiki would be a terrible idea. Even if we move, we should protect the wiki from vandals. Having fanon on this wiki would encourage vandals to put fanon stuff on the facts pages such as the Unknown from Birth by Sleep being Ansem the Wise (that happened once). Also I would want the Wikia Wiki to be no different than the new wiki. SeanWheeler 20:34, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...Sean, that is the worst possible idea for what to do with the wikia wiki.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  21:04, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * My guess is that many people here haven't experienced Wiki's outside of Wikia. Bud0011 21:10, November 8, 2010 (UTC).

Well, maggosh stopped the fricken' revote, so now that is useless, and, guys: THE WHOLE POINT OF MOVING IS SO THAT THE WIKIA WIKI REMAINS HERE TO BE CHANGED IN A MANNER THAT MAKES IT MORE FAN BASED. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE BLOODY PREVIOUS CONVERSATION? KRYTEN IS RIGHT, CAPSLOCK IS FUN.

Bloody hell, what does everyone keep saying the word "official"? We are not official in any way. Seriously guys, if we were the official KHWiki, SE would be hosting us, not Wikia.

MV undefined

Popping in here for a second. You aren't having a re-vote because one person who voted originally, doesn't want another vote? I fail to see the logic in how that is fair. One could easily deny the re-vote just because the option they would vote for anyway, was the winner of the previous vote. I do not, personally, know what he voted for but, does that really matter? It is still unfair on the aforementioned basis.--Zyeriis 03:25, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I know I'm just an anon, and thus my opinion may not be taken very seriously. I've been a visitor and reader (I've even made some edits) of this wiki for some time now. I completely understand and agree with the decision to move. I like the Square-Enix Portal idea the most, as that seems to benefit the most wikis, including yourselves. I also agree with Zyeriis, just because maggosh doesn't want a re-vote, that automatically means the rest of you can't? Shouldn't the majority rule? The majority ruled with the original vote, so why can't the majority rule with the vote on taking a re-vote? Again, I'm just an anon, but I have been reading this thread for while, since about a week before Oasis became the default. 66.215.20.249 03:44, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So do we have a plan yet, or no?Mar 03:45, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

So yeah...um...Like that anon, I'm not much more than a casual user, and sometime editor (ffwiki, obliviowiki, wowwiki, not here yet), but like many others despise the changes wikia has been making. Personally, I feel moving is probably best for the quality of the wiki. Irregardless, I have to agree with Zyeriis; it's pretty crazy that there isn't going to be a revote because just 1 person doesn't want to...I could understand if half the people didn't...but this is just one person...it's clear that a revote is wanted... Eyestothesky 05:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, guys, I don't think you understand how the revote decision was working. In real life, if you don't like the results of an election, you can't just say, "Well, the previous vote didn't count", and keep voting until you get what you want. The revote decision wasn't a vote in and of itself, it was a statement that those who voted last time wanted their votes thrown out. That's not a decision that anyone but them can make, and it's not fair to have them be ignored just because you don't agree with their vote.
 * But anyway, maggosh has rescinded his declination, so as soon as the other voters agree to the revote, it can proceed. (Arg, right as I had arranged free time to install on wikkii, too.)(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  13:46, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well that was the point...I don't understand. Your example isn't identical to this situation for starters. Note: I am completely aware that "arguing" further about this, is absolutely pointless but I have some free time while I am relaxing after work. How do I put this...why would someone agree to the re-vote, if what they previously chose, won. The other people who clearly wish to change their vote based on previously unknown options (the options were options prior to the original vote, they were just not on the ballot) would cause this person to make sure that they get their way by simply saying no to the re-vote (You are voting on whether or not to re-vote, which I simply can't seem to understand). How is re-voting, ignoring their votes? Are the banned from re-voting as well? Again, I completely fail to see how "wanting their votes thrown out" is any different than re-voting.--Zyeriis 21:20, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh please Got no.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:47, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is what lies in front of you, based on the amount i've learned in the past month:
 * Move to an independent server - See this for a list of Pro's and Cons.
 * a) Move to prople's server - Don't need to pay for his service, and he is an experienced wiki host (He owns SMW, SSB Wiki).
 * b) Move to an independent server (other than prople's) - Pay for service if not externally hosted by a benefactor.
 * Move to another Wiki farm - have a similar to the one relationship with Wikia, but with better staff. Don't have to pay for their service, as it is ad based. See this for more information
 * a) Move to shoutwiki - one of the most popular Wiki farms.
 * b) Move to Wikkii - Seems to be a decent Warm.
 * Stay here and learn to deal with the skin
 * I hope i explained this well. If not, i could try explaining it again. Bud0011 20:37, November 10, 2010 (UTC).


 * Happy to help. Bud0011 22:10, November 10, 2010 (UTC).