Talk:Vanitas/Archive 2

Trailer Info
Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --Darksoldier 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

Speculation
like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion, and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D. but im not in charga that so.....



I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers might say. LapisScarab 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)



I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. LapisScarab 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. LapisScarab 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
 * Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are fluent in Japanese is only unofficial, not "groundless specualtion". Glorious  CHAOS!  09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.-- 17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
 * Besides his name, nothing on this version of the page was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was not "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of course we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material! Glorious  CHAOS!  07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well said !  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? -- Black Judgment of Guyviroth 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - Heart Of Oblivion 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is bound to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be flamed for it. Which reminds me, there's another user who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
 * EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until after Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. LapisScarab 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly.  TNÉ  je t'♥ mélancolie ! 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

Voice Actor
hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page --Neumannz 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA officially Mamoru Miyano? --Neumannz 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like Miyano, sure, but we're not putting anything up until it's announced.  —Urutapu 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * and that's just fine with me --Neumannz 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. User:JudgmentDay95
 * It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—Urutapu 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yo! I'm passing on by. Since BBS is released in Japan you can already find live streams of it. The credits and endings have been shown too. Vanitas is credited as Miyu Irino.Kibafool 20:18, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Removed from page
"Secret video" synopses are not canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It should also be written competently before being reinserted into article space. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
 * Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
 * The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article. Glorious  CHAOS!  23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11
 * Please don't be an idiot.


 * 1) The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
 * 2) It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.

If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please. Glorious  CHAOS!  13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11

I will say it again.

THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN. They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of what happens to the character during the storyline of the series.

As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.

This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the CANON STATUS as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered specifically on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.
 * In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 * As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

GS undefined

Sephiroth? Irrelevant.
Vanitas being similar to Sephiroth is completely irrelevant. When I used to say irrelevant things it would get deleted. This is as well.


 * Well, the fact that Nomura makes some stupid joke about voicing him doesn't either. As I had said, let staff decide. Trivia is filled with the irrelevant. Accept it. - EternalNothingnessXIII 21:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Using the exact same quote as another character designed by the same person is not irrelevant, though.
 * Anon, if someone disagrees with your edit, you discuss it on the talk page, you don't get into an edit war, or you'll get temporarily blocked. If you are unable to have patience in a discussion, then you're not actually discussing, you're just demanding you get your way. That's not how it works.
 * EO, the wiki is not ruled by the staff. A better reason for reverting the anon's edit was that he hadn't discussed it or given an edit reason, which is what needs to be done when removing content (unless blatantly vandalism). But if you two can come to a cordial decision on your own, that is much preferable than dragging the staff into it.
 * I've changed it to something that uses the most recent use of that quote by a Nomura character, in what I feel is a more likely analogy. However, it's still a very common thing for the bad guy to say, so it would be fair to remove it if there is still contriversy. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:23, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I realized the potential edit war. That was why I mentioned staff. I know how things work. Sephiroth has more to do with than Garland, however. We could phrase it as :


 * Vanitas/Sephiroth thing...(insert Garland connection here)

That way, we add even MORE redundancy. Sephiroth has the plot connection, and Garland has the character creator connection. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

... "This is a battle quote utilized by Sephiroth, another man who turns to darkness and abandons his old allegiences in the Final Fantasy series, similar to how this Keyblade warrior falls to the dark and leaves the Keyblade masters of the Realm of Light."

Replace "Sephiroth" with "Garland" and you still have a true statement. Hell, Garland turns more literally to darkness than Sephiroth, who just throws a mega-tantrum. And Garland literally leaves the masters of Light, and is a parallel to the "Warrior of Light" (coughcough Ventus coughcough). Then, we have that Sephiroth has already appeared as a totally separate character in KH, negating any possibility for him to be Vanitas.
 * If we keep the trivia note at all, Garland and not Sephiroth should be used, I think. There's just no way that a Vanitas-Sephiroth connection would "mean" anything, since Vanitas is explicitly not Sephiroth. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no way he'd be Garland though. I'd say the only fair thing we do is come up with some way to combine the two. They're both right. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I honestly think that using Sephiroth is stretching it, though, since Shinra was never the paragon of light, and Sephiroth didn't so much go straight to Darkness as just decide that everyone else was evil.
 * I guess it is somewhat relevant in that Sephiroth uses the quote within the KH series, but it's still pushing it to relate Vanitas to him, I feel. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I know, Kryten, and I respect your opinion. Don't get me wrong. We really don't know how Vanitas tursn to darkness, or how/why/if he even does. I think we should stick with Sephiroth, as he's actually in KH. As I said, I think we could somehow mention Garland, as well. - EternalNothingnessXIII 22:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * If your sum total of "contribution" is to come in and say "Look at me!", then please go the fuck away. You are annoying as all get out. Glorious  CHAOS!  00:06, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agreed! You've been nothing, but trouble lately! You're worst than everyone at school I know! What the heck is your problem, anyway!?! I'm sick of you! Seeing you strut around like you're always right! OUI'NA YH YCCRUMA!-- 00:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Calling someone an asshole, even in another language should not be tolerated. NinjaSheik don't do it again and apologize as your intervention in this discussion was pointless and rude. -- 00:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I'm sorry for cursing. But, that doesn't chnage how I feel...-- 00:25, November 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * One thing is cursing during a conversation and another completely different thing is directly insulting someone. Some people are fine with cursing and some aren't but what is NOT tolerated is a direct attack towards a user. That's exactly why we ban trolls who blank out talk pages and why we don't encourage editors to leave hate messages in said troll's talk pages along with the warnings. -- 00:29, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Okay...Sorry.-- 00:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Somehow, I just don't see the connection. Can you please explain how Vanitas, a character who has not had that many lines of dialoge, is similar to Garland, a character who has very little personality. Ult ima 08:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * NV: no one was arguing over content with you. I was asking you to just leave, because you are completely insufferable in your inability to just discuss the article with others without calling other editors idiots and generally acting like a know-it-all. Plus, the whole vandalizing the article to be facetious.
 * Ultima: It's a connection that's barely there, but if people want to mention that shared line of dialogue, Garland is the most recent character Nomura was involved with that used that line, and he does have a similar basic plot. However, it's really nothing at all - really, it's just that any connection with Sephiroth isn't useful. It's perfectly acceptable, at least from my point of view, to remove the trivia line completely, because it's a very generic "evil rival" thing to say. Glorious  CHAOS!  08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * And from your edits, the only contributions I can see are small edits to the trivia. I think I can safely say that if you were not able to be here, the trivia would be safely handled by anyone else. As I told you a while back, if you want to claim that you're helpful, do it without trying to make the other editors miserable. You aren't the golden boy you think you are, and if you want to be respected, you can't have that attitude. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:43, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Vanitas = Leon
Before I begin, sorry if this isn't formated right. ANYWAYS, I was thinking the other day about Vanitas' true identity and I just so happen to be reading Leon's bio, it says that Leon changed his name to escape his past, well maybe Leon was ashamed of what he did with Master Xehenort and changed his name. Plus look at the end of Leon's gunblade, there's a key chain that Leon could've modified to turn his Keyblade into a gunblade. Leon would be about 15 during the events of Birth By Sleep, puting him around the age of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. I know this theory is a little shaky, but I'd like your thoughts. Ookami Hitomatome 21:25, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

I know his name was Squall, but he could've changed his to hide is identity. Plus he's the only character right now that could be him, they say that Vanitas' identity would be reveled at the end of Birth By Sleep. Ookami Hitomatome 22:11, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * What he means is that the story explicitly says that Leon used to be named Squall, but changed his name due to shame he felt for failing during the evacuation of Hollow Bastion, not some unspecific darkness in his past. Most likely due to the group losing Cloud, or some other FF character. While Leon sure knows more about the Keyblade than is reasonable, it is completely possible he learned it just from the Ansem Reports (which they do claim, at one point).128.210.26.20 22:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Yea...true.... OK. I'm turning this post into a "Find Vanitas' Identity" thing. Who could possibly be Vanitas besides any FF character?

Ookami Hitomatome 22:27, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Vanitas is probably the Darkness in Ventus' heart or something...  BLUER   一番   16:12, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Vanitas must have a connection to Sora, but Squall would be a bit out of place.

Vanitas's identity
I honestly dont care if they dont reavel who he is, that mask thing looks awesome! imo Vanitas is the Young version of Xahnort who was in kingdom hearts, he probobly gose insane with power, takes his masters name, and at the end of the game is found by ansem the wise.--Foutlet 20:47, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

It couldnt be Xehenort because he was working with Ansem the Wise

Ookami Hitomatome 00:01, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Possibly Vanitas could be: Ansem the wise. Terra's Emboiment of darkness [Xehanort] (like cloud/Sephorth). It's not Leon, Leon doesnt make that important relevance in Kigndom Hearts series. Not as much as terra and DIZ

Could be Riku's Dad

Could be Terra's Mirror of himself... it could possibly be what terra TRULY is...DARKNESS

. That's why Master Xehanort asks him to try and defeat Vanitas because he wants to test Terra to see if he can really beat darkness itself. or will he eventually succumb to darkness..............

Vanitas's voice actor
In KH13.com it said Vanitas has the same voice as Sora. --Cococrash11 21:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

naaaaah it can't be

People saying "Oh, he sounded like so'n'so" is not actual confirmation. Is there an interview, a magazine article, was it mentioned on the actor's website? Is there anything that's an actual source, and not just people trying to recognize a voice from a trailer? HarpieSiren 22:14, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is anything saying that they share a voice but Vanitas does sound a bit like Sora, only older but seeing all the mystery surrounding Vanitas we'll probably have to wait until the game comes out in a couple of weeks.--Masgrande 01:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Xemnas limit = All VANITY
Coincidence ? Vanitas = Vanity ... We do know Vanitas has a connection to Ven... Maybe his fight against Terra made him forget everything... maybe Terra's essence and his will fuse somehow during Terra's sacrifice in order to get rid of him or something... thus creating the empty shell Xehanort. The story is forced to end badly for Terra, so either he becomes Xehanort, either he dies trying to kill Xehanort or his apprentice. But I think he's responsible for the "new" Xehanort.--Ataradesu 01:55, December 21, 2009 (UTC) >

Not Xehanort's Apprentice
I think it's Xehanort's plan in order to gain the trios trust. 80.101.62.155 21:45, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

An idea for Vanitas' Appearance.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p.png http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture5-1.png http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p2.png http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p3.png http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/2d7sh2p4.png http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/gracefulassassin9/Picture6-1.png

Is there a familiar face under that Daft Punk helmet? You decide.

I'm really quite curious, where is it ever said that eye is Vanitas's? We need confirmation that it's supposed to be Vanitas. 24.165.55.99 00:50, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

I have seen the trailer, in fact it must be about 10 times by now. But I fail to see any proof that the eye is Vanitas's. Unless it's stated in an interview that came out with the trailer or something, then so far the idea that it's his eye is speculation. 24.165.55.99 03:52, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

No, the trailer just shows Ven with a golden eye before him. You're guessing that it belongs to Vanitas, but that doesn't mean it's undeniably his. Show osme proof, like a developer quote or something. Because the trailer doens't make it clear who the eye belongs to. 24.165.55.99 20:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

You guys are retards. The scans are comparing Vanitas' eye and hair placement with that of Roxas/Ventus and then with Sora's. Roxas/Ventus is a no go, but Sora is a match. And famatsu has shown in scans that the eye belongs to Vanitas.
 * To the IP: You can see parts of Vanitas's helmet in that image, and the immediate scene is Ventus looking at Vanitas. It is so obviously Vanitas's eye that it is ridiculous. Glorious  CHAOS!  21:54, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah! Now that I know whats under the hood (read what Xiggie read), I decided to do a picture on it that took me a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time! It can hopefully be seen... here:-Master Aqua 04:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas' identity
I think you all are wrong. Vanitas is meant to be a new character. He is not a character from the older kh series. He is most certainly not Sora or Ven, or Xehanort. There is supposed to not be aany connection between him and an older character.

> >

Vanitas is almost certainly an Unversed:

 * a type of symbolic work of art especially associated with Northern European still life painting in Flanders and the Netherlands in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, though also common in other places and periods. The word is Latin, meaning "emptiness" and loosely translated corresponds to the meaninglessness of earthly life and the transient nature of vanity...Vanitas themes were common in medieval funerary art, with most surviving examples in sculpture. By the 15th century these could be extremely morbid and explicit, reflecting an increased obsession with death and decay also seen in the Ars moriendi, Danse Macabre and the overlapping motif of the Memento mori.

Glorious  CHAOS!  15:16, January 7, 2010 (UTC) >

Regarding The Spoilers


I thought the whole three months thing was gonna change.--Masgrande 23:37, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Voice Actor Credits
The recent live stream had the credits. Vanitas is voiced by Miyu Irino.Sonickenshin 20:22, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Boss Page
Using the Live Stream gameplay, would it be all right if I created a Vanitas (Boss) page? Or would that be too spoiler-heavy? - EternalNothingnessXIII 23:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * We already knew he was a boss, so I don't see why it would be a spoiler. Glorious  CHAOS!  00:03, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

So that's a green light? Perfect! I'm also planning to add the Magic Mirror boss page, as well as add a BBS section to Maleficent (Dragon)'s. Should I format the renders of the new characters in the character infobox, or should I just let the thumbnail image float? The only thing we really have is a guess at HP, anyways... - EternalNothingnessXIII 00:08, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

keep in mind that he's a multiple time boss in the terra live stream he's fought alongside Master Xeanort,And he's fought variously in both Ven and aqua's story's,so you're gonna need to look at a lot of Videos.

Oh and he's the secret boss now so...Ok have fun!204.211.185.107 18:30, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas face finally revealed
Vanitas' face has finally been revealed fully. To me it looks weird how he can fit all his hair in that helmet.

Maxiboi 07:41, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Now that just leaves one final question: Ventus looks like Roxas and Sora looks like Vanitas...what the hell is Sora? Kaihedgie 08:07, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sora is Sora, as far as can be seen. The trailers make a point of showing him in the future, and he's obviously there as a four year old, on a World where no Darkness exists. Perhaps he, not unlike Gozer or Zuul, is a god who must pre-choose his form? I.E. Hell is I know. KH3 will hopefully answer that, lest we just agree Sora has an overly large family. 203.105.95.93 10:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'm really upset with this. I'll never be able to Look at Sora the same way until I beat this game and figure out just WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON! But did you guys see the Ven/Vanitas end video? Vanitas has one messed up Keyblade! Hyperwre_2.0 08:22, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I hate playing Devil's Advocate, but I should probably point out shared appearance =/= connection. At least, not until it's all expanded on later. Raven's wing 11:59, January 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're offended by "dang" and "freaking" lolwut?—Urutapu 23:09, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

here's a better pic if anyone cares anymore nhigirl aka chocolatewolf 23:27, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

I know this isn't a competition or anything, but this picture is closer to perfect:

-User:One-Winged Angel 16:56 January 11, 2010

Sensible Decisions, maybe an answer to the mystery?
It actually makes a lot of sense for Vanitas to look like sora. Sora holds Ventus' heart, which is infused with the darkness that is Vanitas. as a result, Sora grew up to look like Vanitas. If you will notice, in addition, Sora's Hair was originally a light brown, turned dark brown, then a light brown again. Coincidentally, (or not), the trasformation occured in Castle Oblivion, which holds the room of Awakening, and presumabely Ventus' body. So, whith Ventus and, to a degree, Vanitas, Influencing Sora's appearance, then it's no wonder why Sora looks like Vanitas. So, there you have it. Vanitas doesn't look like Sora, Sora looks like Vanitas. Dragonraptyr 10:01, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Then if Vanitas looks like Sora, then WHY does a boss fight between Aqua and Vanitas shows Vanitas looking like Ven? He's shapeshifting! His Sora face could be a fraud. --Narutoheroes12 01:17, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas looks like Ven because he possessed Ven. - User:One-Winged Angel 17:28 January 11, 2010

Secret Boss
It seems there is an Absent Silhouette of Vanitas, unlike Vanitas he is black and white and has the unverse symbol on his mask. This Vanitas has one bar of health but is strong enough to kill you in one attack.--Masgrande 14:09, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

everyone who's willing look up Tales square on justin tv(spoilers ho!) anyway it's a "last story" with aqua as the main character. features land of departure becoming castle oblivion, ven being put in the chamber of waking, Terranort showing up in radiant garden, fighting Aqua,summoning that gaurdian that Ansem Sod had, and being beaten into unconciousness. afterwards in gameplay you can revisit keyblade graveyard and fight white-suited, Unversed symbol wearing vanitas, with one bar of HP and dozens of instant-kill attacks.204.211.185.107 15:03, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Dam! Aqua gets raapeddd!!@!! XD

Future voice actors
If the current voice actor is Miyu Irino of all people, then...... *gasp* I can imagine Haley Joel Osment doing him. And *to the horror of all Francophones on the Kingdom Hearts Wiki* Donald Reignoux.

I can't imagine both of them doing an equally high-pitched laugh, even though they both have the voice fit for Sora... Agi Idup Agi  Ngelaban !  16:27, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * No offense, but Miyu Irino is pretty easy to recognize too...I think we just never took the notion seriously until it was announced outright.—Urutapu 21:47, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

And then at the end of Aqua's story they seem to pull a double voice so we need not only an evil and crazy osment but also a brainwashed and crazy mccartney.(as long as i can beat the crap out of either of them I'm happy.)
 * Please sign your posts. Agi Idup Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  03:05, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia removed?
What's wrong with mentioning allusions to FF titles? I mean seriously. Kaihedgie 23:48, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same as the whole Sephiroth ordeal a while back found above on this talk page. - EternalNothingnessXIII 23:50, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

But the allusion does come full circle though. I mean, you really cannot ignore the staggerin' amount of allusions/references to Final Fantasy any longer. There's so much you could hold back before it explodes Kaihedgie 01:08, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Vanitas is actually Sora's father or something?
No, because the spoilers have already explained his connection to Sora. Doreiku Kuroofangu 11:44, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry not to put to fine a point to it but does Vanitas really age?y'know since he's basically darkness incarnate.

Explanation for Vanitas/Sora/Ven
Random person here that you most likely won't care to here from but there was a rough translation of the Xehanort reports and cutscenes that explains Vanitas. Ven was a normal keyblade wielder made apprentice to Master Xehanort, Master Xehanort was disapointed that Ven would not use his dark powers and so he extracted Ven's darkness and made Vanitas. At this time we still do not see Vanitas's face. This extracture left Ven in a coma state because he did not have enough light to live. So Master Xehanort took Ven's comatose body to Destiny Island, Master Xehanort's home world, so Ven could have a peacefull place to sleep. Then unexpectedly Ven's heart connected with one of the residents of Destiny Island, this is young sora. Sora has always had the ability to connect his heart with anyone and had sensed Ven's broken heart. "sora is known as the boy who can connected his heart to anyone". Sora being the nice kid he was connects his heart with the broken heart station of to repair Ven's heart with light. This is why Ven ends up being a pure hearted person (his darkness was already removed). Because the part Sora filled up with in Ven's heart was actually the part where Vanitas (his darkness) had rested it changed Vanitas's face to look like sora's instead of Ven's. Master Xehanort was then startled by Ven waking up and having enough light to survive (not knowing about sora). He then made a plan to use vanitas and Ven to his advantage. He wanted to create the X-blade and use it to unlock Kingdom hearts. The only way to do that is for a heart of pure darkness and pure light to fight in a life or death battle then the keybalde will be created by their natural clashing hearts. Vanitas was the pure darkness and Ven was the pure light Master Xehanort planned to use.

It's your choice if you don't believe me on this or not but I can guarentee you I'm not lieing. Or just wait for yourself and see when we have the english version come out. 24.7.239.218 02:18, January 19, 2010 (UTC)Random guy

Riku and Vanitas really aren't that similar. If anything Terra and Riku are a lot more a like right down to sharing. nearly the same fate. The only difference is riku's heart was ejected from his own body while Terra's heart was fused into Master Xehanort's.....oh and that whole minor "regain ownership of his body" thing.

If your talking about the Darksuit it's a bit unclear on that. Vanitas was created with that suit on so there are really only two things it could be. The first is that it's a symbol of apprenticeship to Xehanort. Vanitas was created to be Master Xehanort's apprentice so it it's not far fetched to think when MX created Vanitas he created him with that suit as a symbol to show him that he's his true apprentice. Ven was a total reject because he refused to use the power of darkness that he had. Riku is also in a sense an apprentice of Xehanort in many ways. First off young riku has been influenced for a long time by Ansem SoD (the heartless of Master xehanort and terra). He's the reason in KH1 riku doesn't fear the dark, he baited riku to open the door to DI's heart, he is also the one who sent riku to maleficent, which was revealed in coded. While I can't remember where I did once read that soul eater was a metaphor for Ansem SoD taking him under his wing. Hence it's a dark evil bat wing, along with the nature of this weapon is that it needs the power of darkness to be unleashed. Maleficent only ever unlocked the darkness that was already sleeping in Riku's heart. But riku's use of darkness was a bit to skilled to be natural. It's likely that Ansem SoD is the one who taught riku how to use dark mode, this is also very likely why Riku was so trusting and accepting when some random phantom dude offers him a keyblade of his own. Even in RE:CoM Ansem asks riku to serve him once again. Also another thing to support this is that Terra promised to make riku his apprentice. Terra lets riku grab ahold of his keyblade to see if riku was a worthy wielder. When he saw that riku could hold on to the keyblade he told young riku that one day when your stronger seek me out and I will train you. In the end Riku was trained by terra in a sense..except it was just a really evil fusion heart of terra that trains him.

The other thing the dark suit could be is just a manifestation made by people with extreme powers over darkness. I mean vanitas was nothing but darkness and he had the suit at birth. Riku gained the dark suit once maleficent unlocked all of Riku's power over darkness that slept in his heart. Though personaly I think the apprentice thing is more likely.

The only other similarity between Vanitas and riku is the way they hold their weapons. This is barely a similarity because in battle Vanitas is actually in a crouching stance like sora is when he uses the keyblade.But holding his keyblade above the head fits perfectly with the whole apprentice deal. Both Riku and Vanitas can be considered apprentices of Master Xehanort, and who teaches you how to fight? Thats right your master does, and as such Master Xehanort/Ansem SoD taught Vanitas/Riku that weapon stance with holding it above your head like that.

Or since only the keyblade holding part is similar to riku it could have very likely just been a coincidence or red herring planted by Nomura like he did with Xion.

Anyway hopefull the ultimania thats coming out will clear this stuff up, and also even more hopefully is that we get more clear translations of the cutscene's and Xehanort reports. But like I said your free to believe or wait for your self to see24.7.239.218 22:36, January 19, 2010 (UTC)Random guy

Riku use the battle stance before he know Xehanort, and there is also the Dark mode similar to Vanitas's suit that he also get before Xehanort. and as i said he act a little bit like Vanitas in the first KH.--Xabryn 22:50, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

I just down right explained the Dark mode suit and that Xehanort was effecting riku MUCH longer than his short time in Hollow Bastion. No not really Vanitas barely acts like riku at all. The only similarity if they are both a bit cocky but thats to be expected, Vanitas was stronger than Ven and he knew it. He also knew Terra, Aqua, or Ven didn't have it in them for a long time the ability to defeat him. He was cocky because he thought the plan work out perfectly and well it actually did till the VERY end where Ven beats Vanitas and Aqua using the power of friendships destroys the X-blade and defeats vanitas in the real world. Vanitas also acts cocky in an atempt to anger Ven and make him stronger. He tries to break the bonds Aqua has with Terra and Ven several times. Along with he used Terra and Ven's feellings of frienship for Aqua against them to make Terra and Ven both do what Master Xehanort planned.

Other wise vanitas and riku act nothing alike. Riku was hurt and jelous of sora, doing what he could to help his friend kairi while further distance himself form sora and then spent the longest time in a pitty phase. Riku was cocky because he always thought he was better than sora at stuff (he said so himself in KH2) and was even more so when he stole the keyblade back from sora.

So I don't see what similarities your seeing...24.7.239.218 04:48, January 20, 2010 (UTC)Random guy

oh sorry i didn't saw the darksuit thing, and yes is the thing of they both being a bit cocky, but there is also the thing of riku/vanitas holding out his hand to sora/ven, i don't know if it is just in the opening or in the game it also appear but i was also thnking in this--Xabryn 13:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing no one here has played coded? Coded shows us things that happened in the world in kh1 that we didn't see. One of the first memories revealed is on DI as it's being sucked up, Ansem SoD in his phantom form appears and opens a dark corridor for Riku to go into. This is the real way Riku ended up off DI and shows he had met Ansem SoD before HB. Along with When the hooded figure appears and opens the portal riku looks at him and smiles instead of acting surprised, then calmly walks into the corridor of darkness.

Also several things were just translated from someone who was playing Terra' adventure. The first off is the voice in Ven's awakening tells him he's a new born heart. The Ven asks why, this is his heart. The voice replies I don't know I just saw shiny light and went towards it. Then some boring chat stuff and Ven tells the voice his heart is shattered and soon the rest will just break away as well. The voice said well why not connect your heart with mine? Let our hearts become one. Then the huge gapping hole in Ven's heart is filled with light. The voice then tells him one day he'll be able to fill his own heart by himself. Afterwards both Ven and the Voice say Lets open the door. Just a side note in that last line you can here two voice and one sounds like sora's. Of course at first this voice could be anyone's you would think. It's really not untill Ven asks if he can rest inside sora's heart again that you realise the new born heart was sora's. This then helps support the rough translations saying that sora's heart effected vanitas's face.

The second thing of importance translated was all of Terra's adventure in the Raident Garden. Along with the cutscene of Master Xehanort and Braig. After a bunch of anger issues between the two Master Xehanort tells braig he hasn't finished his job and terra's heart still had to much strong light. Then goes on to say ones heart that holds a strong light can't be stolen away. This explains the whole reason Master Xehanort was doign what he could to make Terra give into the darkness. The reason this is important is it helps connect coded and explains why Riku would end up at Maleficent's. Ansem SoD sent riku there because he knew that she could bring out darkness that slept in riku's heart. Because he planned from the beginning to steal riku's body and take in his heart, though it worked a bit differently and because of riku's annoyance Ansem SoD banished his heart into the dark realm.

Now lets piece together some stuff here. Kairi was sent off of RG to lead Ansem SoD to the keybalde wielder. She landed on DI almost 9-10 years before KH1 happens. So first off do you honestly believe Xehanort waited all 9 years before finally tracking down kairi? Oh and it should be noted that if you listen to the speech Master Xehanort put in his reports it's very close to what Riku was saying in Kh1.

Oh and you don't find it odd the riku knew about the door? That he knew that now it was open he could finally escape DI? You don't find it odd that riku acts like he's been around darkness for a long time? You don't find it odd that riku was so calm when both he and sora were being consumed by darknesss? Riku had a lot of knowledge for just an Island kid didn't he...

Anyway like I said riku has been influence by Xehanort's heartless/Ansem SoD for a lot longer than just that HB. And the dark suit is not shown to have been given by maleficent. We just see her unlock the last of the darkness that slept in riku's heart and then later BOOM he magically has it. Yet Vanitas had the same suit as well, now honestly Vanitas and riku have one real thing in common and that is Master Xehanort.

Ah and before I got for awhile I must leave you one last thing to think about. Master Xehanort planned to steal Terra's body but it's been just translated that Master Xehanort offers to make Terra his student because his current master feared the darkness. He then said to Terra his first task was to seek out Vanitas who would likely appear at RG. Right here Terra is serving Master Xehanort but Master Xehanort doesn't consider him his apprentice he considers Terra to be his host. The exact thing with riku as well, Ansem SoD offers riku dark powers and tells him to serve him once again but goes on to mention he'll make a fine host.24.7.239.218 01:47, January 21, 2010 (UTC)RandomGuy