Game talk:Young Xehanort

Name?
How do we know that this is the name of this character? --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 10:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, for God's sake. Seriously? I mean, you guys haven't heard? I remember reading in an interview that Tetsuya Nourma confirmed that this unknown is Xemnas before he became Xemnas. It's Xehanort. I do remember reading it, but I don't remember how to find it. Maybe in KHInsider or Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.

Either way, this just jumping the gun too fast.-- Ninja Sheik  01:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uhhhh....Are you on crack or something? Normura NEVER said ANYTHING about the identity of this character in ANY sort of interview. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 21:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

if you're talking about me when i had said "like xemnas" i didn't say anything about him being xemnasKhruler 20:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

i'm got 35% sure that unknown is xehanort from KH3,the unknown know to rewind time,that means he is coming from the future, maybe he come back to here to try player skill ,just like KH1FM xemnas did to sora.

Well here's my theory: It's Master Xehanort's nobody(or something like that). now before you all say anything, please hear me out. Roxas was born when Sora gave up his heart to free Kairi's. well what happened to Master Xehanort's original body when he forced his heart into Terra's body? I know it's not very likely to some people, but its still a good theory right? I mean it's so close to Xemnas its not funny! User:Chaosmage1

It was me! :O
I started the page because no one else had before. Pretty much everyone at the KHI community was calling him that, so I figured why not. I did it just so we actually had a page started for the character, and could edit it as the news and videos and whatnot came out.
 * Why not just, you know, wait until there's actual information? We have, what, three more months now? Glorious  CHAOS!  06:01, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

from looking through all model files i found this: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/g2rc3w4a/Xehanort.png

this is one of the models where my model exporter produces only garbage uv data, but from the texture, it is xehanort: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/vwni11l1/h04di00.png

his filename is h04di -> the 4th high poly model from Destiny Island.

here the confirmed pictures: http://i48.tinypic.com/23hxbht.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/2wohlzp.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/t02nev.jpg http://i45.tinypic.com/jpd55y.jpg looks like Xemnas from KH1FM, but he can't exist at that time, so Xehanort has the highest chance.


 * Xehanort appears in a black cloak near the beginning of the game, and the texture seems to resemble the "young master xehanort" as well. It's probably just that, not the new boss. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:41, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

You can get a keyblade
it said so in the interview just look at http://www.khinsider.com/ ''
 * ....and this is why you shouldn't rely on incompetent translators. The interview says that you get VANITAS's Keyblade after you beat VANITAS's Sentiment. Glorious  CHAOS!  09:56, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Again, don't rely on machine translators. The interview point-blank says "Vanitas's Keyblade". Glorious  CHAOS!  10:21, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

His Weapons
hey everyone, Ixbran here

after they released the new trailer for the english version of BbS, i took some screen shots and from them was able to make a picture of the bosses weapons using photoshop.

Uknowns Weapons

i am willing to donate it to Kingdom Hearts wiki, till we can get ahold of offical art of them.

i hope this helps Ixbran 22:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Our policy is to not use fanart, but the effort is much appreciated.22:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, i understand. just trying to help since the page feels very empty with no pictures there. Ixbran 00:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Heh, blue lightsabers. What is this, the 'good' Xehanort? Is the reason his lightsabers are blue instead of red because he's the good guy at that moment? Makes you wonder...--Pkthis 04:38, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

has anyone else noticed that he holds his weapon in a reverse where as Xemnas wields his similar weapons as extentions of his hands

Rough translation (because the khinsider post was riddled with error)
KHBbS: Blitz PS, Mr. Nomura interview, and North America version radio actor and additional element, etc.

- Blitz PS Vol.474 (It is an article on 6/25 sales).

― The sale of North America version "KHBbS" seems to be near.
 * Mr. Nomura: It is September 7. There is variously additional element, too and it was restlessly changeable. The voice of [erakuu;su] is competing of the dream of "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" because Leonard Nimoy (Leonard Nimoy) took charge of the voice of mark Hamill (Mark Hamill) and [zeano-to]. The enemy character of the mystery is added. It is not possible to win easily probably because it frightens and it is strong. Opinions such as "I did not want to meet twice" and "It was possible to win 20 times at last once" had come out from [debakka-].

― Is it stronger than the thought of [vanitasu]?
 * Mr. Nomura: There are some people who felt that the thought of [vanitasu] is stronger, and is a person who feels that a new character doesn't fight overwhelmingly easily though the questionnaire was taken. However, a new character is obviously stronger for the performance etc. of the technique. Bang Bang ..already enormous technique.. is used. It is up to a type like the stay thought of "KH2FM+" as for either of this new characters while the following movement etc. were a legible comparatively other parties in the thought of [vanitasu]. Next, what attack you do is not understood, and there is disagreeable.

― Will the new character be still a person in close relation to the story?
 * Mr. Nomura: I do not think that the true colors is understood at all at "KHBbS" though it becomes so. The existence is made character covered with the mysteries like being so the stay thought now.

― Other main change points?
 * Mr. Nomura: Because the Mega flare was too brutal oppositely though there was an addition in all places really in detail, the weakening does. The key braid of [vanitasu] can be obtained because there were a lot of voices of dissatisfaction ..[gohoubi] when the thought of [vanitasu] is knocked down... ..novel one.. some as the play element. add such a correctionProbably the tradition of the "KH" series around here.

― Is there a new secret movie?
 * Mr. Nomura: To our regret, it is not. There was no added time there. The secret movie is preparatory in "KH Re:Coded" though it is what when saying the taking the place. Please look forward because it is a content that not is mobile. The respect was considered this time because there was a lot of hows for being to see the secret movie at "KH 358/2 Days".

Twice!?
in the article, it says that the unknown is fought twice. Is there any proof that it is fought twice?Keyblade0 01:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)Keyblade0
 * Yes: Nomura said so. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:05, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Link
So was there a reason why the link to this page was removed from the kh bbs section thing that expands at the bottom???--Chaosxterra09 23:35, September 1, 2010 (UTC)Chaosxterra09

Mysterious Figure
The official name given to the character is the Mysterious Figure. He drops a keyblade after his defeat named "No Name."

http://forums.khinsider.com/spoilers/153866-strategy-guide-info-spoilers-update-2-a.html


 * There are scans now to back up what I posted on KHInsider's forums. This article requires a name change. --BreaktheIce16 (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Can anybody verify what guidebook these scans are from? They're not worth crap as sources otherwise.03:27, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * So apparently the scans are from the BradyGames guide - the IMDB of guidebooks. Why is it so hard for people to wait for credible sources? It's less than a week to the release of the game.03:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I've said before, I'd be willing to go through the game once I have it to verify all of this. maggosh 03:34, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Again bringing up the IMDB analogy; by the same token I could have put James Earl Jones as the VA for Aqua and just said "I'll check it when the game comes out anyway".03:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

so all edits made in light of this information will have to be reverted?--ShadowsTwilight 03:43, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

That's my opinion, but so far I seem to be alone on this.03:47, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Land of Departure? (Warning: Spoilers)
So, do we have to keep a save file for each character BEFORE the Land of Departure gets destroyed? I mean, how else do we get there? 66.215.20.249 22:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me? Not sure I really understand, so you just make sure to save right before the world gets destroyed? 66.215.20.249 04:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like in ReCoM, beating the Vanitas's Lingering Spirit unlocks the Mysterious Figure for all save files, even ones you haven't beaten the Spirit on. However, since you can't visit Land of Departure after beating the Lingering Spirit, you have to go back to an earlier save file, or start a new game. There has been some rumor, though, that you can take your stats and inventory from the completed game with you, though I haven't seen any evidence on that yet. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:54, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Somebody?
How do we know that the Mysterious Figure is a somebody? For all we know, it could be a nobody, heartless, unversed, or the smoke monster from lost.


 * That's the thing; we don't know. Until we do, let's just keep it this way. -- 00:30, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone i have a theory could it be the original ansem the wise?

Kana + Romaji?
This boss is an English exclusive. So why would it have a Japanese name? I think that should be removed from the Lacking Template at the top. 66.215.20.249 01:32, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are no English exlusives for Kingdom Hearts, at least not for long. Just wait and see;-) ShardofTruth 08:03, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeaah, you're right. 66.215.20.249 17:23, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

But for now, there are no plans for a Final Mix, and therefore a Kana + Romaji is not needed. But like you said, there's always that possibility...

My opinion is that we wait until a Final Mix/International Edition is announced/released in Japan, and then add something about needing a Japanese name. But for now, it's unneeded. Tamroc7 18:10, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Amen to that! --66.215.20.249 01:18, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Birth By Sleep's Final Mix with him confirmed to be in it has been announced in Famitsu.The scan is here:http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5/bbsfinalmix.jpg So just wait until Winter, and you'll have his Japanese name.--58.96.52.3 09:55, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

The Stratagy Guide Messed Up
The Stratagy guide said he slows down time for your character while he moves at normal speed. Anyone who has seen a battle with him or fought him can tell he actually rewinds time for BOTH him and your character for a few seconds. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ya know, there is a difference between slowing time down and rewinding it. The slow time thing is basically the reason for him being so ungodly fast.109.153.253.196 19:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Something REALLY important just dawned on me about this boss
Is says the requirements to fight this boss are to beat VLS then load a game file where you can go to the Land of Departure. It NEVER says you can't fight him on the same file you beat VLS as long as you can go to the Land of Departure on that file. In other words, On any scenario except the Last Episode. --Evnyofdeath 14:45, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, thanks guys for that. Nice to see this cleared up. So every chapter but the final one huh? Guess I was wrong when I said all the time. More like all but the final I guess. - Flintlock Vitor 21:25, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, so is it possible to get to LoD AFTER fighting the final bosses on the file used to fight the final bosses? Or do we have to make a second file just before the final bosses? --66.215.20.249 22:42, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, TLoD is available to go to anytime after the point that corrosponds to Terra's fight with ME in any scenario. If you leave the KG you can go to TLoD anytime. --Evnyofdeath 17:50, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

But can we get there in the same file used to defeat the final bosses? 66.215.20.249 02:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the Final Episode, the part you fight Xehanort as Aqua, then no, because you can't go to the Land of Departure in the Final Episode --Evnyofdeath 03:34, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think I can add something to the timeline of this fight as well. In addition to knowing that this fight occurs before the Final Episode, I think it's safe to say that it happened after Master Xehanort ruined the Land of Departure (when you fight the Unknown, you can see half the castle is gone and the sky is dark, evidence of MX's doing). If I recall correctly, after MX does that, Terra, Ven, and Aqua are making their way to the Keyblade Graveyard.

Canon?
Can someone explain to me how this is exactly a canon fight? The supposed article that states it is canon, from what ive read, makes no reference/ doesnt mention at all that this fight is canon. It just says "hes shrouded in mystery" that means we just dont know who or what it is at this point.FatalMercy 02:52, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Precisely. Why would Nomura tell us who he is and how the fight is canon? Wouldn't be a Mysterious Figure then, now would he? maggosh 02:56, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * "そうなりますが、「KHBbS」の時点ではその正体はまったくわからないと思います. 留まりし思念がそうだったように、現時点ではその存在については謎だらけのキャラにしています. "
 * That's the line that has been translated as (this is from memory, and not exact) "Like the Lingering Sentiment, you think it shouldn't appear at this time [in BbS], but it does. At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries."
 * It is possible that this was mistranslated, so if anyone can get a better translation (I didn't do this one, and it's kind of hard to unravel the grammar he's using, since he's trying to be very precise in his answer), please do. It's completely possible that we're wrong here. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:45, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Please explain how that means it is canon? Last time I checked, Sora vs Lingering Sentiment(aka Terra) is NOT canon. Terra wasn't supposed to be in KH2FM, but yet he was. Also, "At the present time, its existence if full of mysteries." You are just validating what I said before that it's just unknown who it is. That quote does not prove that the fight is in canon....-FatalMercy 18:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Kind of like Lingering Sentiment,Unknown KH1FM, Sephiroth, or Kurt Zisa? They are "just there" during the time and are random boss fights to test your skills/something else to entertain you. Those are not canon fights. I still don't see how saying he's there proves its canon.-FatalMercy 19:01, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll use one of your examples. Lingering Sentiment. At the time of KH2FM he was just a super boss, but by the time KHBBS came out we realized he wasn't JUST a super boss, he is the last remaining essence of Terra (unless somewhere deep down Terra is still fighting MX for control of his Heart) --Evnyofdeath 19:22, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...what do you mean "last time I checked"? Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon. As for Kurt Zisa, the journal and the fact that Xion resembles Kurt Zisa when replicating Sora's memories of Agrabah are evidence for it being explicitly canon. Unknown KH1FM is specifically mentioned in the opening to KH2 ("I've been to see him...") Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him. I don't see how any of these could be considered non-canon. As far as I can tell, LS was only considered non-canon because people think that stuff like "New Game+" means that the characters went through the entire plot again, in player-time, rather than it just being a mechanic to unlock parts of the plot. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

So the Phantom is a canon boss? Canon means it is part of the main storyline. A canon fight would be Sora vs. Xemnas, we know it happened, and Xemnas wasn't an OPTIONAL/SECRET boss, it is impossible to progress the storyline further without beating Xemnas. Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon. "Nomura has never said that the LS fight in KH2FM was non-canon" He never said it WAS canon either. Lingering Sentiment,I buy as semi-canon, due to it is Terra's essence, and there could be a possible(note possible, if KH3 has no connection to this fight, then it is non-canon.)connection in the future. My bad on that. But other than that, the other bosses are not canon. "Sephiroth in KH1FM has an entire cutscene added for him." So how come Sora/Sephiroth don't remember each other if it was canon? Sephy was just a Cameo boss.-FatalMercy 19:55, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...yes, the Phantom is canon. It's given plot-time, a journal entry, the whole shebang. c. There is a difference between "non-canon" and "forgettable". Sora vs. FM1 Unknown is ABSOLUTELY canon. Sora vs. Lingering Sentiment being canon IS WHAT THIS QUOTE IS ABOUT.
 * Hades Cup is optional in KH1. However, KH2 and KHDays both have the seed listings for the Hades Cup up in the Coliseum, with Sora listed as the winner, none of which happens until you beat the Hades Cup in KH1.
 * Sora/Sephiroth - it was a coliseum match. Does Cloud ever mention his fight with Sora outside of the immediate cutscenes there? (maybe he does, but I don't think so). Does Leon? You have to beat Leon to seal Olympus Coliseum, and the later games say that Sora sealed everything. The important thing about Sephiroth was that Cloud knows him, and he definitely recognizes Sephiroth in KH2 - they even mention finishing their battle, as I recall.
 * With fictional canon, if it appears in the published material, and the author doesn't explicitly say that it isn't canon, and it isn't retconned by later material, it is canon. That's how it works. So far, later games have only supported the various sidequests and optional bosses as being canon. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"It's like you're saying that Angel Star heartless are non-canon because they aren't mentioned later" No, if you actually read what I say, Canon means part of the main story, AngelStar Heartless are part of the main plot, as is it is part of the process of collecting hearts for the Organization. As for Sephiroth, no crap he knows Cloud as he is from the same world, just like how Aerith, Yuffie, etc. all know each other before meeting Sora. As for the cups, in KH1 (copy pasting this from trivia section of Olympus Coliseum "In the first Kingdom Hearts, the player can complete the game without entering this world. But if the player were to go there after sealing Hollow Bastion, the scene between Hades and Maleficent is different: Maleficent is absent, and the scene ends after Hades makes his plan to kill both Sora and Hercules." Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. Everything that happens in a game is not canon, but since your completely ignoring my argument, i'll stop arguing.<-- For Real ---FatalMercy 21:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not ignoring your argument. Canon is, basically "What is the true story?". Later games have proven absolutely that the Hades Cup, Kurt Zisa, Sephiroth and Ice Titan (via the One-Winged Angel and Diamond Dust appearing in CoM), the FM1 Unknown, etc., are completely canon. For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are not canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them, and unlike the Postcard quest, for example, the developers took the time to develop plot for these sidequests.
 * By the way, the Angel Stars are not part of the main plot of Days. They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:48, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

"They are an avoidable common enemy at End of the World in KH, except for the last event swarm at Final Rest." And in various Cups... You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me. I already stated what canon is in about every post of mine. I also already stated that the Hades cup was canon because of KH2, but again, you only read selectively. "For the rest, there is no reason to believe that they are'not'' canon, because no one has said they are not, the future plots do not contradict them" There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so... which is what i've been trying to say since my first post. Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts. Assuming that "X" is canon without viable proof (an article that is vague/cant be interpreted effectively is not viable proof) is irresponsible/stupid. You could say the previous sentence was hypocritical, but if something is not proven to be in the canon, it is then, by default, non-canon, until proven otherwise. You know how the saying goes "Never assume because it makes an A-- out of U and Me." What i've been trying to say all along is that the "proof" of it being canon is not a viable/ useful source, as it is confusing/vague, which means that posting that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual, and therefore not acceptable for being in the article...You'll probably ignore this and say "Nothing disproves it is canon, so therefore it is." *Sighs*---FatalMercy 01:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please stop doing this.


 * 1) "There is no reason to also believe they are IN canon if they are not stated to be so" - Yes, there is. They were in the released and published material. With your method ("Only if producer explicitly says it"), almost nothing would be considered canon, because Nomura has rarely ever needed to say what is and isn't canon.
 * 2) "Assuming that something is factual when it has not been proven to be so, has no place in the wiki, as the point of the wiki is to provide the facts." - That is an extreme exaggeration and contortion of the definition of facts. You know better than that.
 * 3) " You are reinforcing my point that you ignore/only read what you want to for some reason unbeknownst to me." - You absolutely did not say that the Hades Cup was canon. You said "Optional/Secret means you DO NOT have to fight to progress/add to the main story, so therefore it is NOT canon.", and then "Even though Hercules and every1 recognize Sora in KH2, its not part of the main canon, and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon;". Claiming that you said Hades Cup was canon is an outright lie.
 * 4) "that the Mysterious Figure is in canon 100%, is unfactual" - actually, the MF and LS are pretty much the one time that Nomura has said anything anywhere near defining something as canon. With your definition, it would in fact be pretty much the only thing that is considered canon.

Finally, your constant ad hominem attacks are tiresome, and useless. I'm trying to respond to your points here, and you're not impressing anyone by calling me names. Glorious  CHAOS!  12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * In summary, and correct me if I'm wrong - your definition of canon is "The producers explicitly say it is canon, or it is important to the story". This does not include events called out by later games, because you specifically say that the Cups in KH1 are non-canon. Whereas my definition of canon is "Anything in a produced and released work that is not declared non-canon, nor contradicted by later material". If you'd like to read up on how other franchises handle canon, read here.

Excerpts:
 * "The policy decrees that most fiction is canonical unless it is contradicted by a higher level source or is explicitly marked as non-canonical (such as material released under the Infinities banner)"
 * "By contrast, Paramount, the owners of Star Trek, have for the most part limited their canon to events within the live-action television series and the motion pictures."
 * "Some franchise owners ignore canon totally. The BBC, owners of Doctor Who, have no canon policy. Indeed so little attention is paid to it that the franchise is riddled with countless irreconcilable continuity clashes despite being presented as a single continuous story, even in the TV movie and continuing television series that were made many years after the original series was cancelled. It has been the fans who have therefore attempted to create a canon for the series, though this is in constant flux as new material is released and is the subject of perpetual arguments. "
 * "Hasbro's only real input on what constitutes canon in Transformers comes from the Transformers Universe franchise, which grew out of the BotCon merchandise and fiction produced by 3H Productions, and has continued with Fun Publications' fan club and Timelines comics. These stories present the idea that each Transformers continuity exists in its own separate universe, with Primus and Unicron as entities which straddle (or easily travel between) these universes. This approach is essentially a tacit endorsement of the model that the Transformers fandom had already started working under: Everything is canon. "
 * "In Transformers, "canon" is for all intents and purposes a synonym for "official". If it was released by a Transformers licensor with Hasbro approval, then it is canonical. However, simply being canonical doesn't say anything about what continuity or continuities it applies to. "
 * "All officially-licensed fiction is canonical for some continuity. "

Even Star Trek, the most restrictive of these, still says that pretty much everything that occurs within the main series is canon. That's what we're saying here - if it occurs within the main game series, it's canon. I honestly don't know of anyone that says that only the "important" events count (for no small part being that that is such an arbitrary distinction), or even worse, that it is only canon if the producers take time to say so (they rarely ever do). Glorious  CHAOS!  12:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ok ok, since you went through all that trouble just to try and destroy little old me, you win. Lemme just clear up where " i outright lied." Quoting myself-- "...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is not imporatant to the main story, which makes it non-canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum becomes canon. <--- I said it later becomes canon, and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read. -FatalMercy 14:23, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * "and i thus repeat my sentence of: You only read what you want to read."
 * Oh, so that's what you meant. Okay, so no, the problem was not selective reading, it's that you are terrible at clarifying your point, and you take an absurd amount of offense when people misinterpret you, rather than clarifying yourself.
 * Here's what your section actually says:
 * "In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is non-canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH2 story is canon because it is important."
 * What you should have said is "...and is more of a side story, so anything that went on in KH1 within the Coliseum is unimportant to the main story, which leaves it as unconfirmed canon; which obviously changes in KH2, when the Coliseum story from KH1 is retroactively made canon."
 * This would have meant
 * "In KH1, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is not confirmed as canon because it is unimportant. In KH2, Olympus Coliseum's KH1 story is confirmed as canon."
 * Have I captured your point, then? Glorious  CHAOS!  14:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The post I was referring to, was to one that I wrote after the angelstar heartless post, which has somewhat better grammar. And no, you haven't "captured" any points of mine, so there's no reason to continuing arguing with someone who does not think canon is ambiguous. I say there's no reason to continue arguing, but yet you continuously post responses in order to antagonize me, so I must do the same. Tenga un buen dia, marica.-FatalMercy 15:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious!? Kryten is trying to RESOLVE THIS. He is trying to be civil and understand your argument. If anyone is being antagonistic its you sir. --Evnyofdeath 15:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Who the hell are you? Go ride his genatalia in some other post. I get antagonistic, because he doesn't read what I post, refuses to acknowledge my points/ POV. How does continuously disregarding everything I write since I first posted in this topic, resolving an issue? Please crawl back into your hole. Love <3-FatalMercy 15:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

My point EXACTLY. I said nothing except you were the antagonistic one, and you insult me in such a way. I believe thats called an ab homonim attack. And simply using the word 'genatalia' instead of a more vulgar version doesn't make you seem like less of a (pardon my language, I know swearing of any kind isn't liked here) an asshole. --Evnyofdeath 15:42, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

You come in out of nowhere and attack me, so that's why I attack you. "You reap what you sow." Maybe if you just, you know, didn't say anything, I wouldn't have been antagonistic towards you. Thanks for telling me I'm "an asshole" youre not the first, and won't be the last. Love ya, Gringo <3-FatalMercy 15:52, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

So your allowed to supporte what you belive through insult, but I'm not allowed to support what I believe through a civil manner? Either way, you got my ethnicity wrong. Just cuz I live in the USA doesn't mean I'm a "Gringo". --Evnyofdeath 15:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Verbally attacking me out of the blue is civilized? Wow, the world must be coming to an end. I live in the USA too, so learn what Gringo means before you attempt to argue. <3-FatalMercy 16:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

What is going on here? Take it your own talkpage.-- Random! to a point!  16:05, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said, verbally attacking/insulting my intelligence out of the blue isn't ending the dispute, i've been trying to get answer to "how is something proved to be canon, when the creator does not say so?" And i get verbally attacked by every member in here. Its cool tho. Love you all *hugs* <3-FatalMercy 16:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The answer I got was, "it just is." Which doesn't answer my question. <3-FatalMercy 16:40, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The reason thats the only answer your getting is because thats the only answer Nomura is willing to give. --Evnyofdeath 16:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Which is what i've been trying to say the whole time, if Nomura does/does not say the fight is canon, it should not be posted in the article as so.-FatalMercy 16:56, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

The wires are getting crossed somewhere. Nomura has said that the fight against the mysterious Figure IS canon, however refuses to explain HOW it is or WHO it is. --Evnyofdeath 17:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Disagreeing with you is not the same as "ignoring you".
 * 2) I post responses because you keep saying I'm misreading you. I want to figure out what the hell you're saying, 'cause so far it all seems like illogical nonsense.
 * 3) Do you even understand Japanese? I kind of assumed you did since you mentioned "reading the article", but now I'm beginning to doubt it. Glorious  CHAOS!  18:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Strategy
I've beaten this guy with all three characters now but i'm new to editing wiki pages so i'll let someone who knows what they're doing decide if the information i have is relevant and worth adding to the article. If you want I'll post my strategy here or in the forum. Here are a few things I think should be mentioned in the article. In the "Appearance" section, the shape-shifting nature of his weapon should be mentioned; it can change into a double bladed lightsaber, a whip and the hilts can also change into spear or arrowheads to be used during his attacks. The strategy section should also discourage the use of Shotlocks and D-Links. Shotlocks leave the player vulnerable and it's almost impossible to get a full lock on count against this boss as he is very fast and is always on the attack. D-linking during the battle will cause him to enter his invisiblity stage right from the get go making this difficult battle much harder. That's what I think should be added to the article and freely give out any other info i have if anyone thinks they need it.MyNameIsTheMaster 02:03, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Real name literally "Unknown"
In this video, approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds in, there is shown a journal entry for this mysterious figure naming it the "Unknown". Also, it has come to my attention that one has attempted to create an article entitled "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)" from scratch. What should be done? --Immblueversion 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh god dammit I made that name up to stop the edit warring. Why does SE mock me so? Glorious  CHAOS!  00:12, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well that's a boring name. We just need to move it back to "Unknown (Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep)".02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well isnt it ok to have a article about that I mean they even keep his name as unknown so that article should be ok there probly just gonna make up fanon theories of his name and other stuff and who it is like us(But its not really a fanon material based)so just move it to the twilight town library its not all that seriuos.Lssj4 02:56, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lssj4, the only thing that prevents us from doing so is that this is a mainspace article. This is not a discussion. Now, on KHFR, we put Xemnas from KHFM (who was then known as "Unknown") under Xemnas (Boss), considering that the details had already been revealed. Same goes for KHW, because it was created in 2006, i.e. during the time KHII was released. Now, we might have an "Unknown (disambiguation)" page, but one will have to link to Xemnas (Boss), and the other will link to Unknown (i.e. without any suffixes ; Unknown is just going to be Unknown. Over on the other side, Inconnu, the general term, only redirects to this page. 06:01, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Stuff to be added
I saw a video where someone beat him as Ven. In it, he showed that if you lay mines, the MF will jump over them. Don't know where to add this, so I'll leave it to you other people. --Evnyofdeath 19:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Strength and Defense
The stratagy guid lists the MF's strength and defense as '?', so I don't think its possible to find out what they actualy are, unless someone hacks into the game and gets the info, or its listed in a Japanese guide, which won't exist until BBSFM comes out. --Evnyofdeath 20:54, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...exactly. Glorious  CHAOS!  00:31, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Design
In the "Design" section, it said that the Unknown had a fairly masculine build but, so did Larxene. So i'm just saying, its gender is not exactly proven to be male so, maybe that should be removed.....--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 15:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Larxene is much thinner and has a lithe, hourglass figure. The Unknown has a similar body structure to Xemnas; more broad-shouldered. Either way, simply describing the Unknown's body structure is not the same as saying what its gender is; females can have masculine body builds, and vice versa.16:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

....I'm getting nauseous from thinking about what you said Lapis 17master 16:44, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Why?16:59, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ugh, i know what you mean. Sorry, it was a disscusion to see if we should have changed it but it was also kind of meant for a joke, sorry.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 17:31, September 25, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman


 * imagining a muscular girl posing like a muscular man with sweats on her body and around her ,sparkling* *imagining again, a guy with a slender, girl like body.... with pink hair for some unknown reason* yeah, I think I'm gonna grab a bucket. lol. 17master 17:47, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Gender Uknown?
Why is its gender unknown?Im pretty sure its a man look it has manly boldy like structure why is it unknown?I mean its not that hard to tell its body shape kinda like Xemnas.--Lssj4 19:56, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Take two minutes to read the section right above you. We don't know anything about its physical appearance other than its general body structure, and it never talks. That is not enough to decide on a gender.20:26, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but body structure does look masculine but, same goes for Larxene. It is most likely male but it COULD be female but we won't know untill Nomura says anything. (Or in a couple games from now.)--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 23:45, October 9, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Larxene's body build is not manly its skinny she has big hips her figure is a little manly but mostly female.Go here please my new Kh fanon site its gonna have kh pics and Final fantasy stuff ONLY unlike the other sites and all their crazy pics.Heres a link

Edit
Requesting a admin to make an edit. Change: "The Unknown's gender is unclear, though it has a fairly masculine build, as its body is completely covered by a hooded, black coat." To: "The Unknown's gender is unclear, as its body is completely covered by a hooded black coat, though it has a fairly masculine build." That is all. 66.215.20.249 22:13, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

And you couldn't do this...why? maggosh 15:43, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

The page is locked to unregistered contributors and accouns less than four days old.19:49, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Should've guessed. I'm still curious as to why he was miffed about switching those two segments, though. :/ maggosh 19:51, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

The sentence was grammatically incorrect. Grammar-wise, the way it was before implied that the Unknown had a masculine build because its body was covered by its cloak.20:21, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I see this now. Thank you. maggosh 20:25, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I just had two let it out: I BEAT HIM!!!!!!

The Model itself reveals no identity.
MF could be MX's new apprentice.-Xander19

The Myserious Figure Could Be Saïx I have Legitimate Proof
This does raise questions as to why it's Saïx who's the Mysterious Figure...

...but your evidence is pretty undeniable. Especially that Earring bit. And, of course, it makes us wonder about why Saïx changed weapons.

But then again, in Blank Points, MX mentioned that Terra was one of many paths he (MX) could take to achieve his goals...

Say what you will about Nomura, he knows how to get people hyped. Tamroc7 22:47, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

You have two points, the texture and the build. The texture one has already been addressed so I'll address the build. Yes, it they do seem to have the same build, however that in and of itself doesn't prove anything, as in real life two different people can have the same build. --Evnyofdeath 22:49, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * It really, really doesn't make sense for this to be Saix, but it could be more than just "eh, use Saix's model, who cares". It's possible that, whoever it is, they look similar to Saix, and so they used Saix's model as a stopgap. I highly, highly doubt that it is actually Saix, though.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  00:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Man you are a genoius but its just impossible for it to be Saix look at how he fights and his body structure macthes Xemnas more.Also Saix died so it cant be him.In BBS Saix was still human he was Isa and just a teen.But as we see this guy can control time but still he must have a connection to Xemnas not Saix.-- 13:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Um...guys? last time i checked, Saix had the power of the moon and Luxord had the power of Time, so if your time travelling theory is even close to being right, this Unknown would be Luxord not Saix, just saying. BTW Yen Sid said in the RE:Coded secret ending that "MX may not be alone next time" maybe this Unknown is that someone who is helping him. oh and the names Xavnirs, i still haven't gotten the whole name and signiture stuff yet

i personally think its a new character tp be properly introduced in kingdom hearts 3 as its obviously not saix hes gead uses a completely different weapon, fighting style, etc and its not luxord for the same reasons so i think we just have to wait and see 86.178.227.136 00:32, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Saix wasn't created until much later in the series and this figure certainly wouldn't be saix due to the fact that these weapons sports Xemnas' Ethereal blades. He could be Ansem for all we know. By Sora9738

I agree with Light roxas, iZerox this is an really interesting and shocking find. it could very well b a for of saix or a reused model, but personally, master xehanort haspossedsed people before, whio's to say he doesnt posses saix?--CLARKMASTER! 22:25, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Character Identification
This could possibly be Xemnas!! I looked at the weapons of the organization XIII, and studied each shae very carefully, also going back to see what color it was. I think it is Xemnas. 02:24, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

A) sign your posts, B) This is all common knowledge, C)Even if you're right, it's all speculation anyway-- 02:10, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

Well sorrrrry but I didn't know it was common knowledge. And if we know who he is, then why dont we put it on the page?? 02:24, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

As in the evidence you presented is common knowledge, and it doesn't necessarily say for sure that it's Xemnas, in fact there id very little that points directly to xemnas at all, and even if there was, we have had no official word on the identity of the Unknown, so it would be speculation anyway.-- 02:28, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. Although some info seems very convincing (the fact that they have similar build and their weapons are extremely similar) other info would contradict it (the fact that, if they were the same, Xemnas has never before seen time powers or the fact that this takes place many years before Ansem, Seeker of Darkness is even created).

He doesn't have Xemnas' exact build. He has Saix's game model, which has a different body build than Xemnas'. Scroll up the page.13:54, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Combat Level
When the Unknown appears in the Land of Departure, I notice that the combat level goes up to 13. This could be another hint towards the Unknown's association with Org. 13? Or perhaps just coincidence? What do you guys think? --Naxxcr 23:06, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

Attacks (need formatting)

 * Sword Combo-The Unknown preforms a long combo using his swords. Can be blocked.
 * Sliding Dash-Preforms a short dash similar to the Sliding Dash Deck Command.
 * Uppercut-Preforms an uppercut, throwing the player into the air.
 * Sonic Blade-Rapidly charges at the player several times, similar to the Sonic Blade Deck Command. Can hit if the player is in the air.
 * Collision Magnet-Jumps into the air and throws sword at the player. If it connects, the player is pulled to the Unknown and then thrown back down, taking damage. If the Unknown is close to a wall, the attack will be cancelled. Similar to the Collision Magnet Deck Command.
 * X-Slash-Fires a X-shaped projectile. Similar to one of Vainitas' attacks, except executed much faster. Can be blocked.
 * Tornado-Lanuches a fast-moving tornado after a short start-up time. If hit, all of your Deck Commands will be dropped. Similar to the Tornado Deck Command, evening using the same graphic.
 * Raging Storm-After a noticable delay, summons three pillars of flame and charges around the battlefield. After the Unknown's HP dips, he'll start using other attacks while this one is active. Very similar to the Raging Storm Deck Command, except the Unknown can move must faster than usual.
 * Meteor-Summons a Meteor to bombard the player. Similar to the Meteor Deck Command, except executed faster.
 * Mega Flare-Fires a fireball after a short delay that explodes shortly after use. Similar to the Mega Flare Deck Command, except that is doesn't require contact to explode and uses different explosion animation.
 * Laser Spike-The Unknown creates a number of energy spheres from his swords, then proceeds to walk around while the spheres fire spears (shaped like the swords' handles) at the player, each disappearing after a single shot.
 * Vanish-The Unknown makes himself invisible when his HP is low or when a D-Link is activated, preventing the player from locking on to him. Virtually the same as the Vanish Friend Command, except the Unknown's weapons are still visible.
 * Doom-Casts Doom on the player, leaving them 5 seconds to live. Pressing the X button rapidly will prevent demise.
 * Renewal Guard/Barrier-The Unknown guards after being hit several consectutive times, also restoring HP.
 * Clone-The Unknown makes 4 copies of himself to attack alongside him. They disappear after one hit (to themselves or the original), but appear to have the same HP as the original when locked-on.