Talk:Nobody

I've
Have you ever nocticed that heartless are made from peoples hearts, and nobodies are made from peoples bodies? I bet the unbirths are made from born people.  Myself 123  20:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Emotions
I know its said many times throughout KH2 that nobodies have no emotions, but I feel like its an arguable fact. Yen Sid says it, and DiZ says it all the time, but the story seems to be trying to convince you otherwise. Roxas and Axel clearly actually care for eachother, otherwise Axel's actions make no sense. Namine is a Nobody, and yet she cares enough about Sora and Roxas to try to save them. Is it possible that these generalizations are just DiZ being sort of a "racist"?--Zephyrus11 08:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not racist, but perhaps he was implying that since Nobody's are in actual bodies and souls without hearts, they would not have emotions. Yet sometimes I believe we don't need hearts to have emotion, memories could also trigger emotions. [^_^]/ 08:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's a convertion screw-up. As I recall, it's only in the NA and EU version that it is actually directly stated in the story by charcters that Nobodies do not have emotions at all. In the Jap version, they were merely called "incomplete", an did, to some extent, retain bits and pieces of emotions. At least that was the gist of it, I think. I'll try to find where I read that, just to be sure. --Hecko X 10:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why hasn't this been added in, then? The article still clearly says Nobodies lack emotions and emotions they do show are used to trick others. Even not considering Axel and his sacrifice, Larxene shows regret and disbelief when she fades and Vexen begs Axel for his life. That's pretty clear fear, and who would Vexen be fooling when Axel is a Nobody as well? Saix goes into a berserk rage when he fights Sora. While there are some examples of Nobodies faking emotions, examples like this seem to show that Nobodies do have some measure of emotions, despite observations of certain characters in the game.
 * Heh, its very likely that Nomura came up with the emotionless nobodies concept AFTER CoM, so he initially designed them with vibrant personalities. He'll have to find some excuse in 358/2 days that proves that they really were emotionless most of the time. But yeah, so far, he's consistantly claimed that they have no emotions. He claims that things like Vexen begging and stuff are the nobodies becoming so good a pretending they have emotions that they are fooling themselves. XienZo 18:07, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure he came up with that concept after CoM. After all, Twilight Town, Roxas, the Xemnas/Xehanort/DiZ conundrum, and the concept of Nobodies had already been created. Kingdom Hearts II was clearly pretty far into development by that point. But if you think about it, remember- Nobodies remember their past lives. Therefore, they remember what it was like to have a heart, and feelings, even if they no longer do. Since in Kingdom Hearts, "heart" means something more along the lines of "soul," Nobodies are more like memories of their past lives in a physical form. They aren't pretending to have feelings to trick others- it's so they feel they still have a purpose in life, a coping mechanism to deal with their miserable "non-existence." (Not to push the "racist" angle, but a similar concept is in the book "Invisible Man," in which the main character begins to feel like he doesn't exist, and he strikes out at others to prove his existence to himself.) And who, after their death, wouldn't give anything to return to life? Even without a soul or feelings, they would long to be complete again. That explains their primary goal, AND why they fear death- dying means they can never go back to their old lives. In the end, it's just another term that shouldn't be taken too literally, like the idea of them actually "not existing." Obviously, they "exist," but only on a PHYSICAL plane. They "don't exist" in the sense that they have no metaphysical quality, no soul or "heart" to give them a HUMAN existence.

Playable!
Marluxia and Demyx and these other guys are playabe in Kingdom Hearts 2? I Guess I've Been Missing Out

definately talking about 365/2 days mission mode that would be cool though Pokhmon 18:18, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Disney Characters
I wonder if Claton and/or Scar became Nobodies... Mcoolister
 * Possible, but i think Clayton had a weak will so he probily became a lesser Nobody, you might have already killed it. As for Scar, i'm not sure about that.  Myself 123  18:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Scar probably had a Nobody, yeah. I'm also concerned as to the identities of Organization XIII's Heartless, and whether or not Riku or his replica could have a Nobody, as both were technically consumed by darkness at one point or another. Of course, neither Scar or Clayton were strong enough to be turned into distinctive Nobodies. Just watch their respective movies if you need proof of that. :P

Just a completely random thought
I have a picture of Terra, Ven and Aqua, all together in a row, really cool looking and everything, and I noticed all three of them have a symbol somewhere on their clothes that resembles the Nobody logo, but is right-side up, the heart has a different way of looking and the three points are more spiked. I was shocked when I noticed so I just had to check it and post SOMETHING...

All I have to say now is...thoughts anyone? User:Leiber_Mage


 * Can you show me?



That's the picture that I mean. The three emblems on their uniforms resemble the nobody logo but upside down. User:Leiber_Mage
 * Looks more like a spiky Heartless Emblem to me. But at this point, it could mean anything, so for the time being, instead of making random theories, it would be more fruitful to just keep an eye out for official info concerning this issue. Nice job in noticing though. --Hecko X 18:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The symbols are actually hearts -_-Sxoxpxhxixe 18:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, how come Terra's emblem is in a different plance than the others it's also gold instead of silver.  Myself 123  23:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Because he wants people to look at his crotch. It's like those guys who wear big golden belt buckles.

Pureblood ?
I think "tiamat" is the big dragon xemnas commands in the final boss

the differense between pure blood and emblem is artificiality, emblems are produced. in a sense because the first 6 of them were created using the same machine that turned them into heartless than they must artifical nobodies. in one of the ansem reports i remember him mentioning that the first emblem heartless were identicle to purebloods so he marked them. in the case of nobodys even thought they have an emblem it would appear are not marked to differentiate artifical from pure. the only other artificaly created Nobody is Roxas, who was created using the Dark key blade. in therory if Xemnas could have manipulated roxas or xion into recreating that key blade (if possible) than they would have been able to use it to artificialy create heartless and if those with strong hearts could be identified create nobodies as well.--Foutlet 18:08, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Some thoughts on nobodies
I had a weird thought when Axel said I'm not getting turned into a dusk for this that the orgazation has power to change human nobodies to dusks or a lower class of nobodies.--Firaga44 01:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC) .

i think there is plenty of room for a heartless organization and a new type of enemy thoughts please:

Special Nobodies
I looked over the page pretty quick and saw a little info on this, but not enough. Are they created when someone willingly becomes a Heartless or when the original being and the Nobody exist at the same time? Please, enlighten me. Kthnxbai --

== a question ==

Larxene took a bite of meat (see Riku Replica's good luck charm). Coroxn-The Lunar Brigade

Somebodies
Out of all of the fan terminology, people who refer to original beings as 'Somebodies' really, really pisses me off for some reason. I may be mistaken, but I cannot recall a single occurrence in which a Nobody said "Somebody", but not as some body, but as a being. Like a Heartless or Unversed. Is Somebody the actual cannon name for a regular person in the KH series? Please tell me it is not true.


 * No Nobody has ever mentioned their complete being, which should be the correct term ("Somebodies" is a shorter term for fanfiction writers, which is how it became popular), other than Roxas, who just called Sora his "Other", From what I know (I don't have a Psp so i can't play Birth By Sleep). I don't think it was ever mentioned in 358/2 days, it's beat around the bush. So it's more "Fanon." animalbrad 06:34, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Axel does in CoM. So, what's more annoying to me is people who'd rather complain than verify something themselves. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:57, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Nobodies can't be somebodies."

Nobody Clothes?
You know when Roxas became a Nobody he had different clothes to Sora? How is this? I always thought that a new Nobody would be naked at first, or at least have the same clothes as their complete beings.
 * Maybe Nobodies take the forms of their original selves, or in some cases, people whom their original selves have seen before. In that case, Sora meeting Ven. Ven's clothes are half Sora and half Roxas, as we'd call it. But because Roxas is half of Sora, well, that "half" was separated and we have... voila, clothes in a different style. That's what I think.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:17, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Somebodies...
Has anyone noticed that of the organization's somebodies that we know what they look like are essentially identical to their nobodies while Roxas and Namine look fairly different (their hair)?


 * This is possibly because of Roxas and Namine's strange births. The Org. XIII Nobodies are literally the bodies of their Somebodies with minor changes due to the darkness. As Org. Nobodies were shells, and Roxas and Namine just appeared after Sora lost his heart, this is possibly why. Also, REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR POSTS! - EternalNothingnessXIII 23:59, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Ahh this may be true! And sorry! --Webuiltthecross 01:02, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Aging
What interview?--Masgrande 15:23, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

What the hell?!
Why is half of this page a stub? What happened? 68.190.210.240 03:48, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Just a Thought
Since the heartless are like, always mass producing, does that mean that nobodies could be the same way, especially looking at all the dusks near the end of KH 2, so this got me wondering if there could be and other secret members of the Org. XIII. I mean XIII is just a number, besides,in the scene with Zexion and Xigbar gossiping about Xemnas, there was only 11 members but i believe it was still called Org. XIII yet they couldn't have absolutely known about Larxene and Roxas coming along. Unless Xemnas could see the future and saw his doom so he hid some members? Is it possible?

(Leviathan657 03:27, February 6, 2010 (UTC))

The current amount of games could MIGHT fit one new member in, but you have to remember that we have two more games left before KH3 (as was announced) and their them is going to be based on something else. My guess is that KH3 will probably be a battle between the original somebodies (as xehanort's heartless was destroyed before his nobody, he can come back), sora, and the hordes of heartless nododies etc. that still recognized xehanort as master.Oh,how the sea calls 04:04, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Nobodies in Birth by Sleep
Scene the heartless appear in Birth by Sleep, it must have been possible for nobodies to exist in this time period too; also their could be humanoid nobodies that pre-dated Xemnas (just throwing that out there)
 * No. According to the mythology, only the strongest Heartless produce Nobodies when created. The body usually just fades away without the heart. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:14, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ya, but you don't know if any strong-hearted persons turned into heartless; anyone could have.

Can we get one thing clear? The Heartless from BBS are natural Heartless. Natural residents of the Realm of Darkness which never had anything to do with Xehanort. Which means, no Nobody ever existed. And even if they did, they would be wondering around the Realm of Nothingness for all eternity. Rucario 5:11, February 15, 2010

Really where did you get that; I don't remember anything in Birth By Sleep explaining that those Heartless were not people who succumbed to the darkness in their hearts

Well, maybe they were. Maybe they were people who somehow found their way into the Realm of Darkness and turned into Heartless. Rucario

Where is the proof?
There are several claims made about the nature of Nobodies that seem unfounded by the games alone. Some of them I have seen in Nomura interviews, but I have no idea where some of them come from. Specifically, the claim that all nobodies come from the world of like and end up in between or in the dark - the only birth places we know are for "special nobodies" there is no reference to the rest of them. There is a reference to finding Marluxia, but we have no idea where he was.

I don't know the policy of this site, but I think there should be sources at the bottom.
 * Well, they are not beings of light nor darkness, so they have to be born in Realms In-Between, which make it either Twilight Town or Castle Oblivion. (I don't think this, however, would apply to Xehanort and his five accomplices.) Traverse Town is too close to the light, and TWTNW is just plain too close to the darkness. Kryten's been studying um, taking a close look at the interviews and the Final Mix logs (which have much more information than KH1 and KH2 combined), so I'm sure he'll be able to get it up and running. 14:14, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Confusion
Why is Namine placed under the replica collumn, shouldn't she be in a special nobodies collumn or something along with the 5 absent sillhouettes? Also Anti-Saix was removed from the page, was this because he is non canon?

Okay it was fixed so nvmd, though what exactly is Anti-Saix and the other Anit characters, I think Anti-Sora is a heartless, then theres an Anit form and Anti-Riku, could someone explain to me the antis?

Xemnas' Form(s)
Er...Where the Humaniod Nobodies are they have Marluxia's forms and Xion's forms, How come they don't have Xemnas' forms?SilverPinkKitty 22:11, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, primarily for boss purposes. The lord of the castle gets the most powers. Marlulu was the lord of Castle Oblivion ; Xemnas is Teh Superi0r. It should be simple. 23:53, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ah...I see. Thank you for explaining ^_^SilverPinkKitty 04:07, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The other forms should be there if Marluxia and Xion's are. They need to be added. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:15, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Beta Reader?
There's a few fine spots of bad or confusing grammar in this article... For example, looking at the trivia section, on the point about Heartless and Nobodies coming back together when they're destroyed, the second sentence reads "when a Nobody is destroyed before it's Heartless' other". It's actually meant to say "when a Nobody is destroyed before its corresponding Heartless". Can somebody go over this with a fine-toothed comb, please? 82.37.246.236 17:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Misnomer
Shouldn't it be prudent to point out that in all actuallity, a Nobody should be called a Heartless, and vice-versa?
 * It kind of is, but it's basically because they appear as if they have no body - their body is actually having to fill the function of the heart as well, so it can't fill the function of the body as well as it should. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:08, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^that was somewhat confusing but the point i'm trying to make is that a heartless is actually the 'heart' of that particular person, which means they 'technically' have no body (Nobody), whereas nobodies are the soul and body of a strong willed person whose heart has turned into a heartless, meaning that they have a 'body' (usually disfigured into one of the types we know) but not a heart, which make means they have no heart (heartless). Which means that they should technically have their opposites name, i'm not saying change it by any means, but to make a footnote or something about it. User:TheEncounter

It is pretty ironic, but I don't know where that would be appropriate to note.22:32, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Naming
It should be mentioned that the nobodies of strong will are named after their original selves. Each name is the letters of their complete self with an added x with the exception of Namine

that;s already under the nature of the heart I believe.Oh,how the sea calls 02:59, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

That's only members of the Organiztion. It's something Xemnas came up with, not something naturally true to all Nobodies.03:21, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

well it has been noted under the nature section, should i remove it? i mentioned it was an organization thing, but do i need to remove it?Oh,how the sea calls 03:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, its under 'trivia'.Oh,how the sea calls 03:40, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

RE Again:Aging?
Should it be confirmed nobodies age I mean they do Namine does(from kh com to kh 2),Ienzo in bbs looks like a 9yr old kid but his nobody Zexion look's like a 19yr old man.The same for Axel and Saix in bbs they look like teen's in Kh2 there nobodies appear as grown men.It seem's nobodies do age and the reason the other's didnt is cause they where not in a adolesence state.Like the few seem to be kid's or teen's going threw adulthood then appear as grown men but since the other's where already above their teen's they didnt appear to change much but its just a theroie but Im most certain that now they age.-- 03:35, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomura specifically says that Nobodies don't age, even though Roxas and Namine clearly do. It is possible that they only grow because they are not true Nobodies, as they have some form of hearts.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  06:14, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

First off, where can we reference the idea of them not aging by Nomura? I haven't read or heard anything on this sight of such. Even if it is true, its possibly a mistranslation or a contradiction or even (considering everything in Kingdom Hearts is so complicated) that Nobodies grow but don't "age" in the sense of growing old and dying of age. Its possible they grow up to a certain age and then stop. Otherwise, there is no proper explanation for any of the above names given who are clearly younger then their nobodies, to have become heartless and develop nobodies within a year and age so much.

change
they are not in coded, so the heart logo shouldn't be there!
 * His name is Roxas, by the way. maggosh 19:58, November 7, 2010 (UTC)