Forum:Where will we go?

Move

 * 1) (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14:54, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:01, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) --I&#39;m so bored 15:05, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  So  x  ra  ]] 17:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19:50, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 21:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  21:42, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Shard of Truth 21:52, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) -- Random! to a point!  22:40, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) BlackSoulBlade 22:48, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Falcos 01:04, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) LightoftheDarkness 20:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Sephiroth0812 21:56, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Don't move

 * 1) SeanWheeler 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) LightRoxas 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) User:Master Vantius --Master Vantius 00:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

ShoutWiki

 * 14:55, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:14, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * (ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wikkii

 * Erry 14:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * maggosh 15:58, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I think private hosting is the best option, it's not feasible for a community like this. So  x  ra  ]] 17:41, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * BlackSoulBlade 22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:15, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23:19, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Falcos 01:05, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Private hosting
Please provide comments on your proposal
 * I've already stated what I though would be optimum, through the utilization of MediaWiki.
 * I've already stated what I though would be optimum, through the utilization of MediaWiki.

Discussion
We could move to another website altogether, like how wow.wikia.com moved to wowwiki.com. -- 19:51, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, but do you have any details on how we'd do that?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  20:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I actually don't. I was thinking we could ask them how they did it, if I wasn't shot down. Sorry, that was just a suggestion :/ -- 20:59, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said here, we could create our own website.

There is still Monobook after Monaco is gone. They are just keeping Monobook. If we move, we won't have Monaco because that is wikia exclusive. SeanWheeler 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

There has to be a way we can work it out without moving. LightRoxas 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

While polls (basically votes) don't solve jack, I still want the wiki to be a good place for readers, not for... wait, it's not really good for anyone...


 * Although they are keeping monobook, it will not be the automatic skin, so our pages would still look like shit. Monaco's features can almost certainly be replicated on any css we make.
 * Also, please don't place comments in the voting section. We've gone back and forth on thus forever without reaching consensus; we all know what each other will say. At this point, we need to be focusing on how we proceed from our discussions.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  22:37, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, 1, ShoutWiki loads like crap. Not good. Wikii or whatever may be fine, but, as Shard said above, it may be lacking that ability to customize. And second, what would happen to kingdomhearts.wikia.com? If we were to delete all articles and images on the site, Wikia would see it was vandalism and revert everything back to life, which, would, in effect, create two Kingdom Hearts wikis, and as mentioned before in another thread by Kryten, Google and other search engines will tend to side with Wikia and Wikipedia. That solves nothing. What the hell are we going to do? If we are voting, wouldn't it be better to give the staff the ability to vote twice, thus doubling thier power? Two votes for ShoutWiki is better than one.


 * We wouldn't delete anything. This wiki would still exist, and it would still be open for anyone to edit. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify, google will side with wikia originally, but as we continue to edit at the new address, and this one continues to stagnate, we will begin getting top billing again. Also, I think Shard was talking about Oasis lacking the ability to customize, since wikkii lets you do whatever you want to your wikis, for free.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:12, October 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point. Even if we all leave, a whole new batch of users will take over.  Eventually, they will adopt an order that will keep this place running, so, in other words, they will be on par with us... if we move.  oh, and could a staff member sticky this thread, please?  Oh, and Kryten, can you define "whatever you want", please.
 * Unlikely. We are the ones who keep the wiki running so fast - if the current community leaves, it is highly unlikely that anyone who moves in will be anywhere near as driven as us. After all, if they were such hard workers, they'd be here already, wouldn't they?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * wikkii:, , ,.
 * I am seeing a significant problem in interwiki linking. This could be solved in several ways, if wikkii remained unwilling to add the entries to the interwiki database (don't know why they wouldn't, though) -


 * Create a Template:w that replaced the X with, and design a bot with a task being to add that everywhere.
 * Do the same without a bot.
 * Replace all the interwiki links with direct html links, with or without a bot.
 * I'd much prefer that they edit the interwiki database, though, since that seems much, much quicker.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Eh. Reading through some of their tech support forums (granted, they are a year old), it is starting to look like wikkii might be lacking quite a few features that we require simply to function as we do now. We really need a staff member to contact them and see what they have working. Specifically, remember to ask about favicon, interwiki linking, checkuser, allowing edits from ips and allowing editors to register, uploading images, uploading .ogg, .gif, .png, full wiki backups, namespaces, etc. This is beginning to look far inferior to anything could put up ourselves, despite what they advertise.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Followup: It seems that most of these features can be reenabled if we upgrade to Advanced Hosting. (Rules) We would need someone code literate to handle things, though, and we'd have to wait until we'd been there for a month to upgrade.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

One question about Shoutwiki and Wikii, will our editcounts be reset? I hope this doesn't make me seem like a person that cares too much about editcount, but I'm still curious about it.

@Inexistent: Well, that's certainly a risk. We are basically assuming that as a community that's been established we'd do a better job at adding content, staying up to date, etc, and that we'd stand above anyone who takes over here. It's possible that won't be the case, but it'll still be easier for us to do our business somewhere else. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  23:27, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

You guys understand that if we do move, we'll have to delete this wiki, or else erase all of its content? Because if you just leave it here to gather dust, it will start to spoil. As in, people will come in and try to take control. There will be no one to moniter vandalism, all that stuff. This is still the Kingdom hearts Wiki representing Wikia. If we're leaving, then we should either delete this wiki and all of its content or appoint new administrators who are willing to stay behind and won't whine about the new theme that isn't Monaco. Just saying. -- 01:30, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * But Lego, there's the thing. Wikia will not delete a wiki unless it was abandoned at its birth.  And, as I mentioned above, complete and total deletion would be undone.

We can't delete the wiki. At any rate, the staff will have to maintain some presence for a period of time, to keep vandalism down and to keep an eye on new editors. If people want to continue on here despite the move, they can, and we might eventually promote new staff to take over. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  01:36, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

In that case we should probably formally get together a group of people who will stay behind and keep this wiki from going to the dogs. I volunteer-- Shadows  Twilight  01:42, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...Doesn't keeping people here to sync the wikis defeat the purpose of moving to a new wiki, and make it impossible for the new wiki to catch up in the search engines? Yes, it's the Kingdom Hearts wiki representing Wikia, and Wikia made it a shit-hole. Which is why we have a new site, which will be very clearly not a shit-hole.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:10, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Point. Although I didn't say anything about keeping them synched or keeping this one up to date. We would still need to be available to editors who want to take over, should the event arise. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  02:14, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT!!!Who said anything about syncing them, i just don't want this wiki to fall to vandalism, i don't care if it gets updated or not-- Shadows  Twilight Χ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS.png 02:17, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ....why? What's the point of upkeep if it's just going to stagnate in a different manner? Seriously, you guys looked at tfwiki.net when I first mentioned it, right? The original wikia site has stagnated completely, and the edits added are worthless. It's vandalism under another name, basically.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:23, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you don't want to, that's fine with us-- Shadows  Twilight  02:28, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

KKD's right. Give the wiki a few months before we up and pack all of our bags. I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it. I still prefer Monaco, but Monaco will be gone. I'm not going to whine about it, as countless people are doing. Another thing, this forum and vote is a little secluded from the community, why not move it to the front page? Or put the news in flashing letters on the page, maybe even its own box or something. Anyway, if we do move the wiki, I'll want to continue editing here as well as the new one. Also, what about the IRC channel? If we're splitting from wikia, it can't exactly be called #wikia-kingdomhearts. -- 19:34, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Unregistered contibutors and readers can't customize it though, can they? It may suck for us as editors, but they don't even have the ability to improve it if they wanted to. EDIT And this isn't like "preemptively bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki". We're ditching Wikia after giving them multiple chances to try and fix things, not attacking them for no reason.00:32, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget, they're still working out kinks. I'm not saying that I like the new skin, but I'm just saying to give it a little time. I'm actually getting used to it, and although it's not the same, it still functions. I know it screwed up a lot of articles, but again, I'm agreeing with the others and saying that we should not move just yet.  Chitalian  8   00:44, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it." - which is why it is still unacceptable. Whatever skin we have, it must be accessible to ALL users. If Oasis can only be tolerated by those who have logged in and played with it, then it has failed not only as a skin, but in its own stated purpose.
 * "KKD's right." - KKD is absolutely wrong in everything he said. The release of the skin means it is done, not that they have just produced it. The skin has been out for over a month now, and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them. If you guys want to "give it time", then use it now, with no customizations whatsoever. Get used to what our readers will actually see. Quite frankly, your opinion on whether the skin is acceptable or not is worthless if you have not been doing this.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  00:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Completely right in response to my post.
 * As for your comment on releasing the skin means it's done, that isn't true. Wikia cotinued to make additions to Monaco even in its final moments, so you can't say that what we're getting now is what we're sticking with forever. Heck, they might make changes that will become suitable for KH Wiki, and we'll have been long gone by then. Then we'll want to move everything back. Just saying. -- 01:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them."(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  01:06, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * READ THIS NOW, ALL OF YOU. EVERY SINGLE WORD.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  01:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little off topic here, but has anyone contacted bulbapedia, SmashWiki, and WoWWiki yet?
 * Nope. Somebody should, or else we'll all be here until Nov. 3rd, yelling and arguing to each other. I would say we all need to calm down, but at this point, I believe I would get flamed. Calm down, guys, we can work this out without biting heads off. We don't need to get ignorant like a YouTube commenter or something :/ --

Personaly, I think Kryten or Bluer should be the ones to contact them. I mean, you can argue with me all you want about this, but Kryten is practically the glue that holds the wiki together. And Bluer, well, he is basically the oldest active admin. I am Megatron1 from SSB Wiki and the person who assisted with many moves. I am here because Miles might not respond. Simply use Special:Export to get pages in files and save those fails. Use Special:Import on your next Wiki host in order to upload those files. If this is not clear, feel free to ask me to explain.-- Mega  Tron1  XD   02:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

This was Miles' response:-- Lapis  Scarab   02:22, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would say get in contact with the NIWA folks through the first email address on this page. NIWA would probably be glad to have you. (I personally didn't do much of the moving work, but I'm sure the NIWAns would be glad to help.)  Miles ( talk)   22:17, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
 * No need to contact us...we've already found you! MWAHAHA!
 * Er, anyways...I'm Neo, the owner of Lylat Wiki, and one of the NIWA staff. I'm here to say that there are options for leaving. If you do go independent, the NIWA would be pleased to affiliate with you and get you into our community. However, you would not be able to join, as you are not a Nintendo related wiki. But don't let that discourage you! If you ask around, you may even be able to get hosting from one of our members. Plus, I'm sure our members would be glad to help you leave Wikia and set up shop somewhere else. They're really cool like that, and they'd be willing to lend their services to you for sure! Like I said, though, we'd be glad to affiliate with you and give you traffic if you become independent. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me. Just send an email to jfolvarcik[at]gmail[dot]com and I'll be happy to get back to you ASAP. Best of luck with your situation!&mdash;Neo(talk) 03:28, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, you may want to change somethings in the wiki, becuase people may still come in and change pages you already exported. see this page and this one for more info. Bud0011 04:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

Thank you guys for this info. It really helps. And, a little off topic, but can someone remove the heading? I'm only asking this because, if you all remember what happened on the Twitter forum, we were constantly adding new headings, and the comments left in the previous headings were left unread. That should definitaly not be done to this thread.

So what's gonna happen? Will we all move to somewhere new and start from scratch, or stay here and somehow work it out? If we're all moving, I'm going too. This wiki has some great people on it (Trois, Kryten, Lapis, Azul, etc.) It would be very difficult to reconstruct a 2000+ page wiki from nothing, but if we all work together, I'm sure we have a shot. But Final Fantasy wiki is staying, so what's the final verdict with us? Mar 21:56, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you don't have to move and start from scratch. You can move, and pickup almost exactly where you left off; just in a new location. Bud0011 22:00, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

Where would we move to? Would we be able to get there easily? My guess is that the link to wiki for kh wiki would just be moved, but I'm not sure. Would it even be the same? Would we be able to keep our talkboxes? And what about the 8 years of forums we've had? And the article talk pages?Mar 22:05, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You would lose some Wikia-only stuff....but none of that is in either list given. Bud0011 22:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

I understand. What qualifies as "Wikia only material"? I know we'll lose monaco forever, but hey, at leasst we have monobook. I just hopeit won't be too radically differet.Mar 22:30, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Monaco's source is actually available, it's a mess and will take more work to clean up, but there's a possibility of using it outside of Wikia. But you also have vector available. The semi-troublesome stuff are images and blocks, the more troublesome stuff are users. Talkboxes are just templates, talkpages are just pages, forums are just pages, just make sure you have the same forum extension installed (it's not a Wikia feature, it's a 3rd party extension that Wikia just installed) and it'll be fine since importing full page history is almost trivial. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 22:38, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

What do you meanby "Users: are troublesome? You mean we'd just lose admin/mod status? Even if we did, we could just immediately get it back, but during that time period, the wiki would be vulnerbale to vandalism.Mar 22:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He means that transferring user accounts is difficult.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  22:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ohhh..... well we could always just create a new account with the same name wherever we're moving to. Or is it possible? If we have to move every single user over there.... we'd mostly just take the more prominent ones, like you or Trois, while the samll yet still important accounts like me get left in the dust...Mar 22:58, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * The tricky part is anyone can resister with the name of a user that had edits and pretend they are them, they basically end up claiming the user's contributions. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 23:13, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

MV undefined
 * We could have the accounts be by approval only at first, and have all the people who want to keep their accounts be assigned a set time to register an account, with an admin confirming afterward with the alleged editor that it was them. It would be time consuming, but it would be the safest way to make sure there isn't spoofing.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  00:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

What about if we have a variable internet connection? Sometimes my modem goes out for weeks at a time and I can't get on the wiki.Mar 00:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Gah, sorry guys. It's not that I don't have an opinion, it's just that real life hit me over the last couple of weeks...very hard. Anyway, I would like to ask what would moving encompass, i.e. who's willing to sign up for and set up the new wiki, who's willing to transfer coding and articles, etc. Breaking down the tasks at this point would make it seem less daunting. Second, do we have a solid lead on a new home? And third, how are the transfers with the major wikis who left or are planning on leaving going? Much as I loathe Oasis, I would rather wait and see what issues occur for other wikis before we jump the gun and end up in the same boat. We might be able to avoid any major problems down the line by learning from them. I like Kryten's idea of approving our established users; for my suggestion, is there some way we could assign everyone a unique "password" in secret rather than a time so we wouldn't have a chance of others spoofing at the approved times? Probably too complicated, but just a thought. 02:51, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the password thing isn't too far off. We could hold a giant IRC thing. Oh, and I'll be willing to do any tasks asked of me.

I agree with the password thing, but I don't know how to access IRC. Can someone please help me out a bit with that? But remember, if you need me, just leave a message on my page, I'll be there(Except during school hours).Mar 03:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do you guys know where you are going? an independent server? web host? Bud0011 04:27, October 29, 2010 (UTC).


 * No. That's the point of this thread.  To figure out where we are going to go.


 * So... $60 a year. That doesn't sound as bad as it could be.  But, Kryten is calling the vote tonight, so we really need to get discussing.  It appears that through our best options, Wikia is the best (at least up until Oasis) WikiFarm.  What are we going to do?  Are we going to give it time?  Or are we going to abandon?
 * If you can afforad it, i recommend going with a webhost. Bud0011 17:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
 * If the price is only 60$ a year, I can handle that easily. Frankly, anything under 1200$ a year I could tolerate. I am not a code guru though, so I would need someone to step up for the technical side of things.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  18:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea, but you can't use tools like Special:Export..... plus you are independent of wiki farms.... Bud0011 19:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
 * Sorry to whoever's edit i just erased.... >< Bud0011 19:20, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

MV undefined

If at all, the time to decide is now. What will we do? Move? Stay? If were moving, I'd like a little explanation on what to do. If we do move, I'm sure we'd all like to keep our accounts, so will it be a secret password, or a scheduled time? If so, where will the message be?Mar 22:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * We're still figuring that out, be patient. The vote above closes tonight, so it loooks like we'll be moving to Wikii judging from that, but this is still very complicated, so bear with us.-- Lapis  Scarab   22:17, October 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wetpaint is not a MediaWiki wiki host, discussing that is pointless.
 * Shared hosting (that pitiful $5 hosting) is terrible for installing MediaWiki on; The limited configuration really makes getting /wiki/Article style urls a hassle. You have no control over the software, namely you have no way to setup Memcached, which is pretty key once you get any reasonable level of traffic. If you are going to run MediaWiki you're going to want at the very least a VPS.
 * ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 22:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * WikiBound is hosted by and Lylat Wiki is hosted by dreamhost. Both are pretty good webserver hosts. Bud0011 23:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

@Lapis: What is wikii? Is it just basically a wikia clone? @Dantman: I'm sure you're right about those, but I don't really know that much other than what's already been said.Mar 00:40, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Read above to find out what Wikii is. And, what has been said is pretty much all there is. We are feed up with Wikia's new skin, and are arguing on whether or not to move.
 * Okay, so the decision of the wiki is to move, and to wikkii. I do want to say that while wikkii will be our first target, if they are unable to accommodate us we can discuss whether to move somewhere else.
 * I'll try to contact wikkii tomorrow if I get time, and will also look into VPS like Dantman suggests. It would be helpful if another staff member could help do research into private hosting, if it's that cheap.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:43, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or we could, you know, do KKD's plan and wait until the year ends before we pack our bags. -- 03:17, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lego's right, I think we should try the new skin for awhile while preparing to move out at the same time. Also we can consider it our respect for wikia for letting us use its service for so long.

One problem with that: I can NOT navigate wikia with oasis. I wouldn't know how to get to forums or IRC with oasis. Unless they are keeping monobook, in which case I'm good. Then I think we can stay till the end of the year. It'll give us time to set things up at wikkiiMar 03:36, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

It's midnight anyway, according to my clock. I guess what happens is we move to wikkii. But when? and how?Mar 03:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

As I've said, yes, they are keeping Monobook, but that isn't the point. The basic skin is still Oasis, meaning readers will be stuck with the confusing mess it is. This isn't just about us. And again, Mar1, be patient. We're figuring that out. I promise you that we won't keep this a secret once we have everything ready to go.-- Lapis  Scarab   04:26, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that I'm so out of this, but can we not just make the default theme of the wiki monobook? Or did they disallow that as well?
 * That's been disallowed ever since they made monaco the default. ~ NOTASTAFF Dantman(Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 04:45, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

The best we can do now is just set our preferences to monobook. I have come across a problem though. My computer won't let me use the IRC with either skin. Is it something I'm doing, or is my computer messed up? I log in, and it immediately logs me out. WTH?Mar 05:05, October 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, what? The IRC has nothing to do with the skin.  That should have to do with your web client (like Freenode).

Excuse me for saying this, but I feel like moving is unproductive. Lets say we do move, and we leave this site to gather dust. Then all the unknowing will still continue to use this wiki, which will have outdated information. Or if, like suggested before, we move but have some people stay behind, then we have two wikis. It seems counter productive. Number XIII - LightRoxas - The Key of Destiny 22:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I read it. But it seems like a little too much work over one (albeit horrible) skin. Number XIII - LightRoxas - The Key of Destiny 20:00, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not just the skin why other wiki's are moving, and why we recommend the same for you guys. Also:
 * No more disruptive advertisements.
 * Simpler, less complicated format.
 * No unnecessary updates or implementations (Blogs, Article Comments, Badges, etc.)
 * Less vandalism. With a more secure domain, we won't have to worry too much about that.
 * Organization of things will be easier overall.
 * See this for more info. Bud0011 20:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC).