Talk:Vanitas

He is the Xheanort we know
Look at it this way, "Xheanort" has a habit of stealing his master's names, his "Heartless" armor is also passed down from Xheanort's heartless to Riku, his new apprentice, he even took his master's clothes when he turned into a heartless, also, it is never stated that his name is "Xheanort" It's just the only name he remembers, this makes sense to me, seeing as how Master Xheanort would have been a very powerful figure in his memory.

I was the one who made that theory NO JOKE visit my | home page all that u need to know about that theory is there

Death Messenger - Makes sense. Perhaps Vanitas stole Terra's body, that's why Xehanort is so much like Terra.

Also, it all fits. His name means Vanity or Nothingness. It matches Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas perfectly!

Trailer Info
Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --Darksoldier 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

Heartless Possibility
Has anyone considered the possibilty that the aprentice isn't an aprentice at all, but is in fact Master Xhanort's heartless? After all, in the birth by sleep video they seemed to spit from one being, with one (Master Xehanort) keeping the phisical shape of the original the way that a powerful Nobody does, and the other (the apprentice) becoming more heartless like. Another thing is that the "Apprentice" finished Master Xeanort's sentence in one of the trailers. This did not seem to suprise Master Xehanort or Ven, as if the apprentice should know what his master is about to say. --Hulon2 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

He would be able to use a Keyblade because, as it says in the article on Keyblades, they are connected to your soul, not your heart. So a Nobody can use a Keyblade because they still have souls. For example, both Roxas and Xion use Keyblades, even though they are Nobodies. As for looking as if he has a heart, who can tell. Axel seemed very heartful to me, but he's a Nobody.--Hulon2 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, Roxas was able to weild a Keyblade, two in fact, and he didn't have a heart, so maybe it's the same case with this guy. Keyblader 22:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, MX fought like he had a plan, but the "Apprentice" just leapt out and started bashing away. Later, he noticed the tornado of blades and leapt on to it without stopping at all to think.--Hulon2 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess we'll know when the game comes out. After all it could be something that none of us have even thought of. After all, if people could figure out they big secret from just watching the trailers, the game wouldn't sell well. They want people to wonder so they make the trailers purposefully vague. Seriously, who could guess that Roxas was Sora's Nobody using only the Another Side Another Story video?--Hulon2 14:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I think MX apprentice is really the xehanort that we know --KHF 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh, it really could go either way, couldn't it? I personally doubt that the Apprentice is a Heartless, but you never do know. After all, he uses a keyblade - wethether the blade's attatched to the soul or the heart, it doesn't matter, because then they couldn't both use a keyblade. Then agian, it might have something to do with those chains...or rather, lack therof. No, wait, The Apprentice and MX both have chains. Okay, I'm lost. But, since Roxas did use a keyblade, despite being a Nobody, I don't think it's fair to just shoot down his theroy. The only problem is whether or not a heartless can use a keyblade, which is, obviously, unlikey. But then agian... Yeah, I don't know. Keyblade Mage 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

Speculation
like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion, and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D. but im not in charga that so.....



I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers might say. LapisScarab 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)



I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. LapisScarab 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. LapisScarab 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
 * Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are fluent in Japanese is only unofficial, not "groundless specualtion". Glorious  CHAOS!  09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.-- Ninja Sheik  17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
 * Besides his name, nothing on this version of the page was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was not "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of course we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material! Glorious  CHAOS!  07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well said !  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? -- Black Judgment of Guyviroth 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - Heart Of Oblivion 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is bound to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be flamed for it. Which reminds me, there's another user who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
 * EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until after Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. LapisScarab 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly.  TNÉ  je t'♥ mélancolie ! 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

Theroy
Is it possible that Master Xehanorts Apprentice is Xigbar because of how he talked about seeing them before and how he saw xion as ven?

Well their bodies don't match and since a nobody is supposed to look their former selfs with only minor changes it doesn't seem likely.--74.210.24.180 22:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that the apprentice is Xehanort, as in Ansem the seeker of darkness, or Xemnas, that Xehanort. Well, my famous friend from Camp thinks that. Anyway, I agree and well remember how Xehanort had lost all his memories when Ansem found him? We think he took the name Xehanort, like when he went to the dark he called himself Ansem. Also, he's been an apprentice before, and in the Manga, Maleficent screams at Riku "YOU!" and she doesn't mean Riku. She had caused problems for Master Xehanort and his apprentice in Birth by Sleep, and she might be reconizing him. (or however you spell it...)--I&lt;3&#39;slarxel 13:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

And that Ansem the seeker of darkness somehow remained human form after becoming a Heartless. Hmm Interesting...--I&lt;3&#39;slarxel 14:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think that he is related to Spider-Man. I mean, look at his costume! And since Disney bought Marvel, it's entirely possible. JesseRoo

Please, that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

That guy was in development LONG before Disney bought Marvel.

Here's something that you might be interested in. JesseRoo

Although the thoeries sound itneresting i suggest we remove them from the articleAqua00000 20:45, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

The Apprentice hath Spoken!
New BbS trailer at TGS09 revealed the Apprentice's voice to be masculine. Still no voice actor though. Let's get on that. -Ktnxbai!

A name!!!!
{{Morghman| Vanitas, that kinda sounds girly, but I suppose it has some sort of meaning in Japanese or Latin or whatever. But come on... he's got the whole body builder suit, he's the DARK apprentice, his keyblade is off the chain, and his name... is Vanitas. Ah well, is there a picture of him without his mask?

{{NitrousX|text=Not that I've seen. But maybe someday, keep your fingers crossed.}}

Who said his name was Vanitas!?

 * His name was revealed to be Apprentice Vanitas in this month's VJump. User:JudgmentDay95
 * Uh, don't spaz, thanks.—Urutapu 22:04, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Voice Actor
hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page --Neumannz 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA officially Mamoru Miyano? --Neumannz 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like Miyano, sure, but we're not putting anything up until it's announced.  —Urutapu 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * and that's just fine with me --Neumannz 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. User:JudgmentDay95
 * It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—Urutapu 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

70
Seventy edits in one day. Absolutely ridiculous. -- Door To  Nothing Kupo! 04:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Removed from page
"Secret video" synopses are not canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It should also be written competently before being reinserted into article space. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
 * Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
 * The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article. Glorious  CHAOS!  23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second you're saying the the video isn't canon but you don't want to include in it? What the heck look at Terra,Ventus,Aqua, Master Xehanort, and Mickey Mouse they both had the Birth By Sleep video and The Gathering video and they didn't erase it like in Vanitas. In this page why can't Vanitas had both? Vanitas isn't included The Gathering is one thing and he dosen't appear in it I understand but his fisrt appearance is in the Birth By Sleep video. So why isn't Birth By Sleep video article mention in Vanitas? If the video article for Vanitas is too big just make it small enough to not watse space, or just include everything in BBS video about Vanitas in the Vanitas page. I thought you guys want to improve articles in this wikia not erase the truth? Beside you're saying that the Riku in Deep Dive is before he went to Catsle Oblivion who told you that? This happen after KHCOM and 358/2 Days not between KHI and KHCOM. cococrash11
 * Please don't be an idiot.


 * 1) The placement of the Deep Dive video in Riku's article would be between KH and KHCom, which is incorrect.
 * 2) It's specifically not truth, it's un-fucking-canon.

If you're unwilling to listen at all to what the other person is saying, then just shut up, please. Glorious  CHAOS!  13:23, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Shut up! What you did dosne't make any sense. Beside the secret video deep dive is after KH1 FInal Mix and not the story line but the game producction history you idiot. Cococrash11

I will say it again.

THE STORY SECTIONS ARE NOT JUST DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT THE CHARACTER HAS APPEARED IN. They are descriptions, in the style of timelines, of what happens to the character during the storyline of the series.

As placed, the secret video synopses claim that the characters did those things immediately after KH1 and KH2. That is nonsense. Riku did not defeat Roxas immediately after KH1 - he waited two games to do it.

This is pretty much exactly what I said two comments ago, and the fact that you're rambling on about production history (when I've been emphasizing the CANON STATUS as the important point) only shows that you're spending your time complaining instead of actually listening. I know damn well when the videos were produced; however, they are NOT CANON, and DO NOT FIT INTO THE CHARACTER'S PLOT SYNOPSIS, any more than the trading card game does. That is why I suggested that the information pertaining to the secret videos be covered specifically on that video's page, and to only have a link to it here.
 * In the future, instead of complaining in what is barely English, please reread the first person's comment so they don't have to repeat it multiple times. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
 * As for your complaining on my talk page - if you can prove that those are the plots for those games, and not just people assuming things from the small snippets we do know, feel free to add them back in. As that is currently impossible, since the game isn't finished, I kind of doubt you'll be able to. As those pages were, they were making false claims, which is unacceptable. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

GS undefined

What should we add
Should we add that Vanitas and Ven are going to fight each other? I mean in the new trailer they first start talking in The Gathering and then they both whip out their keyblades and get in their battle stances.--Xsonicdragon 01:39, October 30, 2009 (UTC)