Talk:Lingering Will

How is it possible that he can only be fought after sealing Keyholes and defeating Xemnas? There are no keyholes in KHII, and killing Xemnas ends the game.

2-there's anoption at the end of final mix that lets you returrn to the game after Xemnas is defeated. -xNaminéx
 * sigh!*..... Ok, 1-Yes, there are Keyholes. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you.
 * Technically they're not keyholes, they're loopholes in the Gummi shield around each world...or something like that.—Urutapu 23:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Find me a single place in the game where it says Keyholes. Besides, the animation for the "opening" occurs in several worlds that have already had their Keyholes sealed, like Atlantica, Hollow Bastion, and Agrabah.  Why would the Keyhole unlock itself and transfer to another object?  They aren't Keyholes.  69.207.151.166 03:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

But It's NOT like "Open them up!What's the worst that could happen?" Basically in KH1 the keyholes were the doors to the world's hearts(in a building, the door to the basement and foundation.keeps the house up.) In KH2 the keyholes were the roads to other worlds (the door outside) Two seperate things.
 * I don't think the things that Sora zaps with the Keyblade at the end of each world's primary mission are keyholes at all. Nobody calls them that, they look nothing like the keyholes from KHI, and Yen Sid makes no mention of them being Keyholes despite mentioning them specifically. 69.207.145.217 23:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Terra and lingering sentiment
http://www.kingdomhearts3.net/scenario-mysteries-interview/

yet he doesn't correct them either,perhaps because he thought it was obvious.

Terra ≠ the Lingering Sentiment: The Ultimate Proof
As stated in the Ultimania, when asked about Birth by Sleep, Nomura said and I quote:

"This game is set the farthest in the past of any other, so it connects to Kingdom Hearts, but the main characters are three that haven’t appeared in the other games."

This is even on the BbS page for goodness sake. So there you have it. And due to the nature of the Lingering Sentiment, being found through a black and purple portal, transporting Sora and co. to another location, and its Keyblade preforming attacks unheard of for any other Keyblade, it is rather obvious that the Lingering Sentiment is an Absent Silhouette and should be classified as so. Kthnxbai!XYZ. 07:15, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

News flash, idiot. That fight is NOT CANON! IT NEVER HAPPENED, IT'S JUST A FIGHT TO TEST THE PLAYER'S STRENGTH!

And we are not changing the page, so don't ask us to, OK?

Wow, those two are total douches. Why wouldn't we change the page if they just showed us that some of the information we have is wrong/inaccurate.

Another Interview for ya http://kh2.co.uk/?page=NI/KHBBS1 to wit, May I believe the person you Fight in KH2FM+ and Terra are the same person?Because they both use a similar kind of keyblade Nomura:"If they really are the same person, or not is uncertain,though it doesn't matter If you think they are the same person"204.211.185.107 14:50, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but if the battle is canonical so is Sora's victory, MEANING: he is stronger. So the battle would be the hardest and impossible to be won. [Redeemer and Destroyer]] 20:09, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Birth by Sleep Spoilers
In the climax of Terra's scenario, Master Xehanort's Heart possesses Terra's body, much like Xehanort's Heartless does to Riku. Once the process is complete, "Terranort" casts away Terra's Keyblade and Armor. As Terranort basks in his victory and begins to leave, he is trapped by a force created Terra's reassembled Armor. The Armor then uses Terra's Keyblade to defeat Terranort. I feel that this has defined the existence of Absent Silhouettes: the consciousness of a fallen character imprinted on a personal possession.XYZ. 07:14, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Protection
I understand the need to admin-protect the page, but I can't even add an IL ! Agi Idup Agi  Ngelaban !  06:43, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Sperate
Shouldn't there be a seperate section for Lingering Sentiment ones a biography one a boss section? --Cococrash11 20:34, January 12, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * It's not considered a true character. Glorious  CHAOS!  23:21, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

LS is confusing...
So, let me get this straight: The Lingering Sentiment is Terra's armor and Keybalde given life by... A) Terra's Heart, B) Terra's Soul (or an imprint of Terra), C) Master Eraqus' Heart (just putting the thought out there :P), D) any combination of the previous, or E) None of the above Multiple choice question posted by a confused HealerSpirit o_0 HealerSpirit 01:47, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Character or Boss
Seeing how the Lingering Sentiment has been proven to have some importance as a character, should there be two separate articles for his character and the boss battle? --Samoth 10:20, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, as Kryten said, no. Agi Idup Agi  Ngelaban !  10:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Lingering sentiment is not Terra's soul it's Terra's will.
Terra's soul remains inside his body that is/was Xehanort along with Terra's heart.

in the secret ending we see Terra and Master Xehanort in a black area with a white

glow around them. This is their two seperate hearts communicating inside the heart

of our Xehanort (well at this time he could be called terranort). That black space is

where a heartstation should be.

Lingering Sentiment is terra's lingering sentiments brought to life inside his armor.

His intense feelings of hate for Xehanort and the urge to save his friends is what

drives this armor. The LS really is like an entierly new kind of being, or something

somewhat like an unversed. An unversed is the emotions of Vanitas manifesting

themselves with his darkness.

Aqua also made a LS in the secret ending but her's was to a less drastic extent.

It was only powerfull enough to hold together long enough to get Terranort out of the

dark realm. Though in doing this Aqua is dooming herself to wander through the dark

realm alone for 12 years untill she meets Ansem the wise after KH2's explosion happens.

This lingering sentiment is still alive thought and Xemnas speaks to it in the room of sleep

That is the voice Xigbar hears speaking back to Xemnas.

The soul in nothing in KH but the source of energy for the body to move to the heart's

commands. This is why a nobody can exist without a heart, because their body still

contains a soul giving it life.24.7.239.218 02:34, January 19, 2010 (UTC)random guy

You're using a lot of assumptions here. The cosmology of the Kingdom Hearts universe is that the soul/body stay together, yes. The heart is it's own seperate entity. A person's will power can be drawn from the heart, or the mind, thus creating sentient heartless and nobodies. Will power though has never been stated to be it's own driving force behind any of the machinations of the KHU. To call the LS a new being similar to the unversed is not a fact. It is a possability, yes. Untill then this is your theory.

Alos, it's not explicitly stated where and when some of the scenes in the secret video take place. Ven and Terra are shown to be alive and intact at one point in the video as well as Roxas, Xion and Axel. I could easily justify that the Living Sentiment is actually Terra's Heart residing in that armor and that the conversation in the hidden scene between Xehanort and Terra is the same as Riku's when his heart was "stained" by Xehanort's Heartless. That shows that darkness can consume a heart and possibly even replace it.Neverfate 16:58, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Here's a thought
This is exactly what I thought too. The Lingering Sentiment would be a nobody since it has Terra's soul and is using his armor as its body, but it would be a special one since it was not born from someone becoming a heartless. I think that this is correct, but does anyone else have anything to say? --Random Ranaun 04:26, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

It has feelings and it was created because of feeling of hate angry so i would say that he is more an Unversed than a nobody--Xabryn 11:54, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but a special Unversed because the LS doesn't stem from darkness like the Unversed of Vanitas do. He's just Unversed-like.69.178.248.181 06:01, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Infobox picture
I know that this may have been cleared or OK'd, or whatever it is, but I heartily disagree with that picture in the Infobox, because that is not the Lingering Sentiment. It is Terra in his armour, and there is a huge factor that proves it: the character in the Infobox is holding the Earth Shaker keyblade, whereas the Lingering Sentiment never carried that keyblade, always using the Gaia Bane. It's like putting a picture of Ven in Roxas' infobox, just because they lookalike even though they're not the same character. Well, the same case applies here. I've already put the picture of the Lingering Sentiment back in the infobox a couple of times before, but apparently what I do and the reasons I give don't count.

I say that picture of Terra in his armour has to be changed back to the one with the Lingering Sentiment. EnglishJoker 20:10, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * That picture has an error, too, because it has a cape, which does not appear in BBS. That's why there's a note right there next to the image saying that we know it's not fully correct, but it's the best we have for now. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:22, March 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Call me crazy, but didn't the cape appear in KH2FM? Both the cape and the Gaia Bane keyblade appear in KH2FM, and the LS never wields the Earth Shaker once in the series. That would make the pic with the cape far more accurate than the one of Terra in his armour. But, of course, since when does my opinion count? EnglishJoker 16:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

And I'm told to "lose the attitude" when I say that my opinion doesn't count. Well what do you call this??? ShadowsTwilight is giving EXACTLY the same reason I did to change the picture from Terra in his armour to the REAL Lingering Sentiment, but when I said it, it didn't count. Now that SOMEONE ELSE says it, it's suddenly OK to overrule the previous illogical debate and become logical. I'm glad that the picture's finally been changed to the real thing, but honestly, this is REALLY pissing me off now. I say something, no one cares. Someone else comes along and says the same thing with the SAME reasons, there's a change. I knew it. My opinion just does not count. EnglishJoker 20:38, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly? I still disagree with this just as much as ever. I just have more important things to do right now. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:50, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very well, but just don't replace the Infobox picture of Roxas with a picture of Ventus just because they lookalike. EnglishJoker 14:23, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...we gave our reasoning over and over. Don't attack strawmen. Glorious  CHAOS!  16:44, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * That depends on the hassle and headache the "strawmen" have caused over a silly picture. EnglishJoker 15:09, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

"Canonicity" trivia
Although the game does not unlock the battle until the save file has a "I beat Xemnas!" sticker on it, the battle itself is still played before the end of the game - you can beat the LS, and then go beat Xemnas. I think this should be interpreted more like a Prince of Persia type thing - the first run through is, "Here's the basic story," and then the return to the game and fight with the LS is, "But here's what REALLY happened." Glorious  CHAOS!  16:53, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Quote
I think the Lingering Sentiment quote is wrong. Various subs say that the LS says "Aqua...Ven...Someday, I'll definitely..." Vaddie 14:06, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

"Thoughts"
I haven't seen the original japanese, but the word for "soul" in Japanese can be translated as "thoughts", as well as the word for "heart" (though I doubt Lissar would have missed that interpretation). I think we should check this before saying it isn't his soul or his heart. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:15, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

True or False?
Alright, just clearing this up. I'm a little lost here. The LS is just Terra's armor, right? Not him himself?Innosense 21:41, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Theme Music
Should we add his boss music? "Rage Awakened"? Since he's kinda the only one to have it... 24.205.43.42 04:47, May 8, 2010 (UTC) Actually, Terranort at the end of BbS uses it against LS. Gr8champ 06:32, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

wait a minute...

 * It stays at the Keyblade Graveyard until Sora fights it in KHIIFM. I am not sure, but the Keyblade Graveyard seems to have become inaccessible after the destruction the X-Blade. (Sora needed a mysterious portal at Disney Castle to get there, if I recall)--Otherarrow 15:20, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Tetsuya Nomura Confirms as Canon
''The new secret boss will be like how Lingering Sentiment was to KH2FM. You will think it's impossible that that can happen at that time of the story, but it actually happens.''

-Tetsuya Nomura, taken from Degenki Magazine.

http://www.ff-reunion.net/kh/2010/06/25/khbbs_dengeki_nomura_interview --ΧƳƵach. 07:14, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, hasn't the LS been "confirmed as canon" since BBS' release? You know, when we see his creation and play as him to fight Xehanort?07:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

If that wasn't enough, here it is from Nomura's mouth. Just sayin.--ΧƳƵach. 19:29, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well, whether the boss is canon and whether the fight is are different things

Good point.04:27, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is saying that the LS and the new Unknown fights are canon. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:02, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Im sorry but I don't see that said at all. It says that LS/the new Unknown exist and are "canon" but whether Sora or Aqua actually fought them is a different issue entirely.204.211.185.107 15:54, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * ....what. It explicitly says "You think it's impossible that it can happen at that point in the story, but it happens". It even mentions the Lingering Sentiment in relation to KH2. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:23, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Rename?
Does he get renamed in the english version of BBS? someone must know by now.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 16:23, September 6, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman


 * Actually, they changed it to "lingering spirit".75.164.116.185 09:15, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think their basing it off the name of Vanitas in the guide, which directly contradicts the name in the report. Though a thought occurs, could anyone go to Terra's story after beating it and look in his report? Because there might be an entry on LS or even Xehanort himself in there. (I can't help as I am currently without my psp.)204.211.185.107 13:28, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering how the official name for "Vanitas's Sentiment" (ヴァニタスの思念) is the "Vanitas Remnant", I am in favor of renaming the Lingering Sentiment (留まりし思念) the "Lingering Remnant". Granted that both are physical manifestations of what remains of their powerful thoughts and feelings, we could even call it the "Terra Remnant", though since the phrase "留まりし思念" was coined by Tetsuya Nomura himself, I reason that's closer to being an official name than a fan-given name. --Immblueversion 23:58, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * IN the guide it specifically calls Vcanitas remnant as his "lingering spirit". Still is their anything that calls it lingering sentiment anywhere? i dont remember, if it's in the final mix of kh2 that information can change considering it never released in the US.Aqua00000 02:10, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

All right sorry, im not trying to start an argument i just wanted to know if he was called something different or not.--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 13:56, September 21, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

Merge with Terra
I've been beginning to wonder, since the Lingering Sentiment is the lost mind of Terra within Terra's armor, has exactly the same fighting style and thus is the main character of the final battle of Terra's story in BBS, Terra and the Lingering Sentiment are in fact the same person, not like, for instance, Braig and Xigbar, who are different. Because of this, I personally think the Lingering Sentiment article should be merged with that of Terra, because the LS's story is the same as Terra's. The story section is small enough as it is, and most of the other stuff in other sections is almost the same as on Terra's page.

I think it ought to be merged. Let's put it to a vote. EnglishJoker 00:12, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

To merge this with Terra would be the same thing as merging Vanitas Remnant with Vanitas. I don't think it should be merged at all. And besides, doesn't the LS have it's own journal entry?  Chitalian  8   00:15, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

LS have its own entry in KHIIFM+ but I don't know about BbS. Anndd... I don't think it's the same with Vanitas-Vantis Remnant case since LS is canon character :/

I think that because It's terra's armor, not a part of Terra himself, that makes it a separate being from Terra, so i really don't think a merge is all that necessary-- 00:27, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...it is actually more different from Terra than Braig is from Xigbar. It is his soul, and his clothes, while Xigbar is Braig's soul, body, (and clothes). Nomura hinted almost explicitly that the Sentiment was essentially Terra's Nobody.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  02:59, November 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Psst, KrytenKoro, if the Sentiment is Terra's Nobody, then where's his Heartless? O.O --Never fear ... Superdog is here! Yipee! :D 04:21, November 22, 2010 (UTC)Superdog1123

The Sentiment is not Terra's Nobody, it's his soul. His Nobody is Xemnas. His Heartless is Ansem, Seeker of Darkness.-- Ninja Sheik  04:23, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Y'alls word against Nomura's. The LS is Terra's Nobody by technicality, in the sense that it possesses the components that make up a Nobody, i.e. a body (the armor) and a motivating source (Terra's mind), it's not a normal Nobody, or even a literal Nobody, but it is essentially a Nobody because it's general construct resembles a Nobody-- 04:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

So, I guess the LS is what you called a "Special Nobody" or not?-- Ninja Sheik  04:37, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

I guess so-- 05:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...Okay, then!-- Ninja Sheik  05:45, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Will's Cage
The cage produced by the Lingering Sentiment in its final battle is named "Will's Cage". The kanji used for "Will" is shinen, the same word used for the "Sentiment" in "Lingering Sentiment". It seems pretty clear that the cage is literally the sentiment's cage, so I propose we move this article to "Lingering Will".(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:15, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lingering Will? What is that?

What Kryten is proposing is that Lingering Will is the English name for the Lingering Sentiment, when he mentioned "will" and "sentiment" having the same kanji, he's implying that Will's Cage uses the word Will as a short version of the Lingering Will, labeling it as a cage that it made-- 16:27, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

For example: suppose that Beast was not named in the English script or journal, but that we knew that the English-named "Beast's Castle" was his castle anyway, and that the katakana in "Beast" matched the Japanese name of the character. We would easily say that the character's name was "Beast".(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:35, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. I like Sentiment better. Hell, even Remnant. maggosh 16:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with maggosh, Sentiment sounds a lot better. Lingering Will sounds like a... form-less ghost or something :/ Oh, and thanks for the explanation, ST :D
 * "Remnant" and "Sentiment" aren't even that accurate as translations of the kanji, which is most literally "Thought" (Lingering Thoughts, Vanitas's Thoughts, etc.) Sentiment also has a connotation of tenderness in English, which is not the meaning intended by the kanji (pretty much "mind-bits"). Furthermore, "Lingering Will" is a phrase actually used in English, rather than syfy Engrish like "Lingering Sentiment". Even if the adjective bit of this isn't ironed down dub-wise, this translation is at least closer to an accurate name.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:35, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...But Sentiment just sounds so cool D: Besides isn't the name "Lingering Sentiment" used by many unofficial translators? Not that I doubt you or anything, but they're more experienced in this kind of stuff, aren't they? :/

While i agree with 17, i'll have to admit Kryten makes a compelling argument-- 16:58, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * If there are no objections by tomorrow, I'm going to move it, and we can start correcting it across the wiki. 18:02, January 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Three days. So, uh......what's the delay? I mean, I remove the merging tag and its put back because there's still a discussion, which now seems to have finished. If it's not changed by tomorrow, I'm removing the tag. EnglishJoker 21:02, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, because the decision falls to you, huh? -- 00:42, January 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, not because the decision falls to me. Someone gives a deadline to move the page, and by the time the deadline passes, nothing's been done, so in that case, it's best to give a little reminder which looks like a warning. I wasn't really going to take it off. It was just to get everyone's attention to this subject again. EnglishJoker 12:31, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

There were no objections to what Kryten said for several days. The article should have been moved by now. EnglishJoker just really wants the move tag gone. That said, don't remove the tag until after the page has been moved or it was decided to stay the same.00:52, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

No No No.Bull shit.This artical name should stay the Lingering Sentiment.--Master

Why? Give some sources and reasons as to why it should have an un-official name other than "it sounds cooler". This discussion was started on November 30th and you're only now raising issues?02:56, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well it has been said that the Lingering Sentiment was created through Terra's feelings and emotion which is what Sentiment refers to.So refreing to it as the Lingering Sentiment would be best as to describe its existence.--User:The Dark Master
 * The literal meaning does not matter in this case; when we do not have official confirmation of a term, we have to translate the Japanese term to the best of our ability. Since we now have English justification that the subject of this article is called "Lingering Will", and that the location in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep matches this name in the North American version, we can easily call it correct. Similarly, if Nomura created a new Heartless based on a flame, has fires for arms, creates blazing pools as it walks, uses fire-based attacks, and is yet called "Blizzard Heart" or something non-fire based, we would name it Blizzard Heart on the wiki, NOT something based on its meaning. Simply put, translation before meaning. -- 03:13, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Terra-Xehanort directly refers to the armor as containing Terra's mind ("Why does your mind resist"), and "Lingering Will" is a better translation.03:13, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

Canon?
I was just wondering... whenever Sora encountered the Lingering Sentiment, is that canon, or was irrevelant to the story?--KRoNoS 18:22, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure but I am assuming it is canon as he mentions Terra, Aqua and Ventus as they are all connected to Sora, it was probably the prelude to both Re:coded and Birth by Sleep. 18:59, January 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is canon. Tetsuya Nomura said it in an interview about the Mysterious Figure in BBS. They both appear in scenes that don't seem canon, yet they are. It's how Terra is connected to Sora. EnglishJoker 18:50, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Will's Voice
In the trivia it says that "At the end of Terra's scenario in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, the Lingering Will briefly talks with Terra's voice, yet in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, it appears to communicate with Sora by using metallic sounds, which Sora, Donald, and Goofy understand perfectly well. This discrepancy is not explained." I'd think the reason would be that square didn't hire a voice actor for Terra at the time of KHIIFM, just thought i'd put that out there. Xavnirs


 * It used to say that, but it was deleted as speculation (BS, I know). It's obvious it's because the voice actors hadn't yet been cast. EnglishJoker 10:32, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Read the article before you start bitching. I only removed the last part about how the "discrepency is not explained". Not because it's speculation, in fact it's technically true from an in-game perspective, but because it was bad writing. It's an awkward, accusatory tone to use and, in real-world terms, is easily explained as Xavnirs said. 19:29, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Its a secret boss in KHIIFM, not to mention it was terra's lost heart not the Lingering Will's voice calling out, the Lingering Will is the left behind feelings and regrets of Terra.--Lugiarules100 17:57, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

i'm sorry if i started any arguments, i was just explaining the meaning of the discrepancy if square hadn't already explained it(which they didn't). Xavnirs 13:04, January 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * You didn't start an agrument, and in fact you inspired a change in the Trivia piece you brought up. Its just a pet peeve of mine when people make assumptions without reading what they're talking about.13:23, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

What's a harken?
I saw that the Lingering Will can turn the Ends of the Earth into a "harken-like weapon". One question: What the heck is a harken? If this is a typo, fix it, please--otherwise, I think a link to a definition would be appreciated. FT 05:37, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's the german word for "Hook". I don't know why they wouldn't just say "hook". 10:55, February 13, 2011 (UTC)