Talk:Heartless

In the least, Pure and Artificial Heartless should be seperated.--Dreyfus 21:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

End of the World
End of the World is not an actual heartless. Also I read that Tetsuya Nomura, in a interview, called it "The nobody of worlds"--Painocus Kingdom Hearts
 * Just forget it; the 'see also' was fused with the heartless list--Painocus

Heartless, as they seek and consume hearts, also desire to return to the greatest heart, the heart of all worlds, Kingdom Hearts, that resides deep within the realm of darkness. And because of this, immense darkness, enough to completely consume the realm of light. 00:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)~we really need to do something with this sentence.. It doesn't make sense...

Heartless Song
I hate you you hate me, Lets get together and steal that key. With great bigs eyes and, a heart with me and you. Wont you say you die for me?

Hmmm...
After checking the history, I think there are three IPs/accounts that added chernabog, ice titan, and clock tower to the heartless. I wouldn't say any of them look like heartless, and the chances of 3 different people adding the same thing isn't that high.... Is it the same person? XienZo 17:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My IP adress is always changing so...... It's possible -Azul 17:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Ansem
He's not an emblem heartless, he was turned into a heartless, he wasn't made by machine.  Myself 123  22:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Ansem's STILL not an emblem heartless!
He only wears a emblem because he made it, if that makes him a haertless, how come Hollow Bastion isn't? It has an emblem.  Myself 123  19:31, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see your talk page. It is made quite, quite evident throughout the game and reports that Ansem is indeed, an Emblem Heartless.
 * If by "he made it", you mean "he created the machine that puts it on Emblem Heartless", then yes. As for Hollow Bastion - who says it isn't a Heartless world? It became "Hollow" didn't it? End of the World is a Heartless World, isn't it? Though, to be clear, Hollow Bastion has the design as window framing - but does not actually have a solid emblem on it. Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon  survived intact.  19:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I know this is a pretty old discussion, but the dialogues of the Princesses of Heart in KH1 prove otherwise.

They're implying that the world as it is isn't entirely destroyed, and that they're doing everything in their power to prevent HB from falling to darkness. Technically, it's already fallen into darkness, so whether or not that second Keyhole is opened is immaterial. Could it have been for plot purposes, then ? 10:14, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Emblem heartless????????????????????/
Um hi there, relativly new at this but ok .....

ANY WAY! so i was just replaying kingdom hearts 1 and 2 and i realised...

When Sora arrives in the 2nd district of traverse town for the 1st time a man dies and turns into a soldier which is a EMBLEM heartless.

ALSO when u go to the palace in land of dragons, a couple of the chinese soldier people like die as well and tunr into night walkers which are EMBLEM heartless

now is it me or is kingdom hearts contradicting itself there??

I mean i thought people turned into pureblood heartless like shadows and the such...

Can some one shed some light here?

Not necessarily true. Sora had been carrying Kairi's heart inside his own; he used the Dark Keyblade, whose power was to unlock people's hearts, to release Kairi's heart, thereby sacrificing himself. Sora even said later in the game that he remembered "falling into the darkness." Both Pureblood and Emblem Heartless can consume hearts to let their numbers multiply; the reason that the Emblem Heartless appear more often than the Purebloods is something you'll have to figure out on your own. And as for the soldiers that turned into Heartless in Land of the Dragons: you have to remember that Shan-Yu, while connected to the darkness, still had a sense of mind and could strategize, like the Nobodies. It may be that he was mobilizing an ambush by ordering the Heartless to disguise themselves as soldiers, like double agents in espionage and warfare. Keyblader 20:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't it say in one of the ansem reports that hearts captured by emblem heartless also become emblem heartless?--74.210.24.180 21:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Pureblood Heartless vs. Emblem Heartless
Where exactly does it say that Pureblood heartless only appear in the Realm of Darkness? --Dix Princesse 17:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Do heartless have hearts???!!!
It says in the game that heartless do not have hearts, but how come everytime Sora defeats a heartless, a heart emerges from it and into the sky???!!!

It's not no bodies as in they don't have bodies.It's nobodies as in no one cares who they are.--74.210.24.180 21:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Names
someone has been screwing with the names on these. We need to go through and just rewrite the lists. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And a lot of it is just wrong, like "The Experiment". Glorious  CHAOS!  03:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I checked everything. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All that's left is the three ???? from Days, and the Shadow Block, which the sites I'm using say is neither a Heartless nor Nobody - it could be something like the Undead Pirates, or simply a reoccuring obstacle, like that fruit from Deep Jungle in KH. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, the first two ???? are "Imitation Organization Member"s, so, AntiSaix and AntiRiku, or possibly Xion and Riku themselves. The third is "触手", and comes with the Parasite Grave entry, so...Parasite Grave's Tentacle? Glorious  CHAOS!  03:59, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Glorious  CHAOS!  07:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 偽機関員 (Imitation Organization Member)-74 [Not AntiSaix nor AntiRiku]
 * 偽機関員 (Imitation Organization Member)-75 [Not AntiSaix nor AntiRiku]
 * 触手 (Tentacle)-62, 66 (drops Gear Parts Ver.3) [Parasite Grave mission and Carry Ghost mission]

Rewrite
The page needs to be rewritten, with much more use of citations. I've started with a rewrite of the Origin section.

The biggest thing I've had to note is that the Secret Ansem Reports are clearly lying - Ansem must have written Ansem Report 9, as it mentions information that Mickey revealed only to Ansem, but it mentions Ansem opening the door to the world's heart. While this may not actually have been Nomura's intent, it does jive with DiZ's guilty character, Xemnas calling him the source of all Heartless, and well, DiZ is somewhat of a liar. Until the end of KHII, he is completely into revenge, with no consideration of the ethics, so it's quite possible he's lying even in the report in order to blame Xehanort.

The Heartless Manufactory itself is also quite obvious, and right there in Ansem's computer room - there's no way in hell it could have been built without him noticing, as he tries to claim in the secret reports, and the reports originally claim it was made long before Mickey showed up. The Secret Ansem Report 4 even has him admit that his mind and memories are detoriating, with only his hatred sustaining him. In fact, the Secret Ansem Report 2 completely contradicts the scene we see - Ansem tries to claim that it was his own upstanding morals which caused him to cancel the experiments, before Mickey ever showed up, while in the scene we clearly see that Xehanort is still performing them with Ansem's consent until that meeting.

Therefore, unless Nomura explicitly says that Ansem is being honest when he says Xehanort wrote reports 2 through 9, then logically, Ansem wrote reports 1 through 9. The only explicitly correct source is the scene in which we see Ansem tell Xehanort to cease the experiments, and at that point Xehanort took over from Ansem, stealing his identity and exiling him soon afterwards. I think we can't trust the Secret Ansem Reports until Ansem becomes honest enough with himself to admit that he is losing himself, in Report 4. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Plus, the whole "Radiant Garden citizens knew Ansem was studying the Heartless" thing. Glorious  CHAOS!  06:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, to be safe, I'll change it back to Xehanort until we see what happens in Days. It's not worth doing it now, since it relies too much on argumentation. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:30, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Also, as we get screenshots from the finished dub of Days, we need to make sure we replace the links from the Japanese name to the English name. The only confirmed dub name I know of is "Artful Flyer", which I believe is "Flying Arts", but it's doubtful because (1) "Arts" was a theme name with the "Butler" and "Master" as a college degree thing (Butler, Master's, and Doctor of the Arts), and (2) I can't see the damn thing in the screenshot. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

the people of Radiant garden were aware of experiments after the fact when the heartless invaded.Xehanort the son-of-a-bitch may have been eavesdropping on the king and ansem or even had his own conversation with mickey. Xehanort didn't experiment with ansem's permission, they studied the heart but...

"Master Ansem regarding the experiment I presented the other day with your permission i'd like to proceed..." "I forbid it!Forget this talk of doors and the heart of all world's.that place must not be defiled." "But master ansem!I've been thinking..." "Xehanort, Those thoughts are best Forgotten."

And ansem knew about the "Computer Room" but the "Secret lab" where Xemnas has the "chamber of repose" (what are all those locked doors in the hallway of final mix?) was probably not known by Ansem. besides Birth by sleep is months away, we can wait to rewrite history regarding Ansem the wise until then.204.211.185.107 13:19, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * The Heartless Manufactory is not that room containing the Chamber of Repose, it is that huge room that the MCP makes all the Heartless in. There's a window to it from the computer room.
 * The fact remains that what Ansem/DiZ claimed about why he stopped the experiments clearly contradicts what we see. Ansem did not forbid the experiments until after Mickey showed up. Plus, there's no real evidence that Xehanort was eavesdropping - it pretty much looks like he just walked up with his little spiel, and it's clear he wasn't expecting Ansem to get angry.
 * In fact Mickey's appearance at this point is pretty great evidence that Ansem is being dishonest. Mickey left in response to stars winking out, and we know from KH1 (to some extent) and from the meaning behind a star going out that this means the Heartless plague had already started. The original Ansem Reports even claim that Mickey coming to Radiant Garden was impossible until the door had been opened.
 * Finally, we don't really know exactly when the Radiant Gardeners found out about the experiments, but it's indicated by Aerith and them that they knew about it before Maleficent used the Heartless against them, because at that point their world was destroyed, and who would be telling them stuff about Ansem then? The circumstances of their escape indicate that they were the only ones from their world they had seen since then (esp. Leon and Cid's story); Cloud is even suggested, with his service to Hades, to possibly have died. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:42, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Birth by sleep is only a couple months away, could we wait to rewrite history until then?68.221.247.177 12:59, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Actually in regards to the radiant gardeners, Who had half of the reports in the first game, they could have found out about ansem's research from those(which if the second game's reports are to be believed were actually by xehanort). Also was the heartless manufactuary where the first artificial heartless were created? because in the first game it struck me as the machine in end of the world that was that and the Manufactuary as where they were Mass-Produced.also the only time heartless are seen "Manufactured" there was with the MCP, Where do all the other Emblems come from?71.54.128.73 03:01, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * They did have half of the reports, after they return to Hollow Bastion. And at that point, they explain that they now "know" that "Ansem" was a bad guy. At the beginning of the game, they didn't have any of the reports, yet they still knew Ansem had been researching the Heartless (see the quotes on Talk:Ansem Reports).
 * That machine in the End of the World is likely the original machine, though the fact that Emblem Heartless still appear in KHII indicates that there was a backup, because Sora destroyed the first one, didn't he?
 * The room must have been there before the world was destroyed, because the world was restored to its pre-Heartless state at the end of KH1.
 * "The six traitors were operating a laboratory that churned out those cursed shadows."
 * This laboratory is mentioned earlier as one that Ansem had helped build, immediately before he claims to have discovered the experiments. I suppose that he honestly could have missed seeing what was going on in there, but by the nature of the equipment there, and its use by the MCP, it's hard to believe that he missed the fact that the laboratory was designed to produce Heartless. Furthermore, there's the common sense that instrumentation of that precision would have required quite a bit of research first. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:27, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Ansem Report 7 was almost certainly written by Xehanort because of the similarity of his comment to Riku.71.54.128.73 19:57, December 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * NEVER MIND. From the revelations of BBS, it must have been Xehanort who wrote Ansem Report 5, since only a Keyblade Wielder can find the Keyholes. The completely fuck-sensical Report 9 must just be that Xehanort was already going crazy, and thought he was Ansem. Based on writing style, I guess 2, 3, and 4 must be Xehanort's as well, so DiZ isn't lying about that - Xehanort was just already completely insane the day of the Mickey-Ansem-Xehanort cutscene. Love to know why. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:29, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

From wikipedia (use only verifiable info)
Heartless (ハートレス) are hearts corrupted by darkness, lacking a body or soul, and commonly portrayed as having bright yellow eyes and dark colors. They serve as the most common type of enemy the player must face in the Kingdom Hearts games. Heartless come in a variety of types, categorized by being Pureblood or Emblem, both reproducing by taking more hearts and transforming them into Heartless. Pureblood Heartless are black shadow creatures born of pure darkness. Emblem Heartless were artificially created and are labeled with the Heartless insignia, a heart symbol with a thorny cross. The Heartless obey those with strong will. However, in worlds closer to darkness, the Heartless get stronger and become uncontrollable. They invade worlds through corridors of darkness—unpredictable pathways that interlink the many worlds.

Merging
The use of darkness, hearts, and Heartless are intricately tied together in the series, and perhaps might be served well by merging the three into a single article which covers the whole concept. However, such a merge would also be incredibly difficult, and we would need to get the three articles well sourced and written before attempting a merge (up to the level of the Origin section here). So, basically, this should be one of our main goals in cleanup - getting those three up to speed so that they can become one of our flagship articles. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

But hearts and darkness are Exetremely fundamental to the sereies Individually, and, from what i've seen, the heartless are only one of the more wretched examples of when the two come together. (and what would you call such an article anyway?)

heartless as a representation of our instincts
when you examine the heartless behaviour they appear to exemplify a personification of the id, they follow the most primitive drives, to eat and reproduce and thats all that we ever see them do. furthermore the observation that heartless are without emotion seems questionable, prehaps they experiance emotions on a lower level, things like fear, rage, and hunger --Foutlet 15:00, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, they're are specifically called Heartless because they reportedly don't display emotion, so there's that. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:23, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

thats what i thought at first too, however there are a few things that IMO bring the validity of this journal entry into question. first of all its the speed at wich he came to the conclusion, if i remember correctly he made the observation based on the behaviour of a single shadow, not a very reliable sample size. in additon to this, it is equally possible that the heartless is simply unable to express emotions because it lacks a body to communicate them. Granted of course one thing is certain, even if they do feel, they dont display Complex emotions, the best example of what im talking about is the deserters who avoid combat wich may be interpreted as fear, and they display something like rage when they seek out to avenge there fallen kin. this is only based on my observations, and opinouns and is not cannon in any way.--Foutlet 21:26, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Weapons
This article heavily implies that heartless are immune to standard weapons and can only be destroyed by the Keyblade and magic. If this is so, what about Goofy, Leon and everyone else who is able to quite easily destroy heartless using a standard weapon? Dartblaze 11:15, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

keyblades, and magic cast by there users, are the only weapons that can actually free the heart from the darkness, and send it off again. other weapons will only destroy there physical incarnations, wich will eventualy respawn. in other words the only way to ensure that the heartless stays dead is by using a keyblade.--Foutlet 21:29, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Ok...so any objections to me adding this bit of info? Dartblaze 07:14, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Birth by Sleep
Considering that Heartless appear in Birth by Sleep, is it still fair to say that Xehanort created them? I know that the Emblem Heartless are his creations and that they became a problem after his experiments, but what about the Pureblood Heartless? --Samoth 13:23, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not following chronology at all !
''The Heartless appear when Master Xehanort summoned them to fight Ventus. During this time, Aqua is in the Realm of Darkness where she encountered a pack of Darkside Heartless.''

This was taken from the text. Now, Aqua was in the Realm of Darkness after she had placed Ven's body inside CO. People... something's not quite right. ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  00:43, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I fixed it, but most of my info on these scenes with the Heartless is second-hand, coming from mostly other articles, so it might not be exact.--Otherarrow 01:16, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I think this'll do for now ; any further storyline issues will be resolved in the English release. Thank you ! ^_^ ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  11:36, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Unversed=Heartless?
What do you think?:

-Nobodies are the third enemy, (presumably) heartless the second, and unversed the first. Scene it is generally accepted that Unversed are connected to the heartless and nobodies, but it is unknown what it is. My idea is that somehow unversed where created that were not connected to Vanitas, and they were Heartless

-Now what if unversed are the second enemy, and heartless the first? Who knows what that could mean.

-(Note I know very little about the unversed or Birth by Sleep, not playing the game and all)
 * Too late, it's already been proven that the Unversed were extensions of Vanitas. But about the Unversed and the Heartless, it's possible that the Heartless are the first, and the Unversed are the second, since Vanitas only came into existence after MX forced Ven to fight several Neoshadows. ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  01:37, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

How can we be sure that nobodies didn't existed before the Unverseds they're created with the heartless right so they should exist they just didn't show up cuz there was no reason to, they probably only appeared in KH2 cuz of Kingdom Heart--Xabryn 02:02, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Heartless are beings of pure darkness, and not all Heartless become Nobodies (Take the example of Clayton and Scar). The ones with the strongest wills formed the new threat : Xehanort and company became the first Nobodies, as evidenced in the last of KHFM's Ansem Reports. ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  02:07, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

the report don't say anything of the first one be Xehanort and company. it just say that they don't exist in the realm but i guess that we can call they the third since they only appear after the other ones--Xabryn 02:14, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably so. ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  03:03, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

BBS
Nomura: As Yen Sid says in “KHII”, the Heartless cannot be separated from the darkness in people’s hearts, and have been around for a long time. Beings of darkness can draw out the darkness in the heart, so Master Xehanort could summon the Neoshadows with his own hands. In the same way, when Xehanort and Ansem the Wise’s students begin to perform the first experiments on the darkness of the heart, artificial Heartless were created in large numbers.

http://www.khplanet.com/plot-mysteries-of-birth-by-sleep-unveiled/

Deflect statistics - Kryten, please see this

 * Each attack gives different tech's, yeah. However, it's not really listed anywhere, except possibly the Ultimania's, so I don't think it would be good for the infoboxes. However, it would be perfect for the strategy sections. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:13, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm also gathering data for the card numbers used (it's in the REC walkthrough I wrote, though I didn't gather everything yet). Should these go into the strategy too ? 00:09, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't because of the enemy it vary on attack strength like Riku(Keyblade normal attack gives around 40(don't remember the right value) and the strike raid-like gives around 75(also don't remember the right value)--Xabryn 23:59, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can gather details for the Strike Raid attack, it'll be good. Right now, I'm focusing on Guard and normal counterattacks, and I'm going from world to world to do this, and some areas just can't be opened up... Will have to keep resetting, right up till the end if I want to make a complete list. 00:31, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT 01:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC) : If you'd like to edit this section further, please meet me at the Mensa.

Template
Regarding the new Heartless enemy template: for the Days enemies, I think we should include the mission(s) they appear in. 66.215.21.80 05:04, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...right. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:51, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

I thought it was already there ? The stats should say 358M1, 358LVL1, 358reward1 and so forth ? 11:47, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * *Facepalm* --  Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  15:46, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Are Heartless Alive?
Okay, just to clear things up, I don't like killing. Are Heartless a shroud of darkness giving form to the metaphysical heart? Or are they seperate beings born of the hearts stolen? And what happens when you defeat them? Do they die? Or do they go to a sort of "in between place"?

198.53.83.241 05:44, July 9, 2010 (UTC)Tanglemorph198.53.83.241 05:44, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * They are born of the darkness in people's hearts, and defeated Heartless disappear. The hearts they have consumed go to Kingdom Hearts (primarily if they are Emblem Heartless). But remember the order of complete beings being greater than it all. 12:11, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like TNE said, defeated Heartless turn back into loose hearts, and return to Kingdom Hearts to await their bodies being liberated from the darkness.
 * So, you can basically achieve immortality (like Xehanort did) by becoming a Heartless and Nobody, then having both be destroyed to become human again. Repeat ad nauseum. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:19, July 10, 2010 (UTC)