User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa

KH Wiki Banners (2009.04.18)
'SUMMARY : This discussion came about when I posted a message on the Manual of Style talk page about a header at the top (or else we'd still continue reading dreary black-and-white text !). This idea applies for all pages bearing the prefix "Kingdom Hearts Wiki:" - yes, the project pages. Doc rocco was the first to take a look at this idea and he talked it out with me.'

Doc rocco : Hey! I made some banners, which I thought I'd showcase. Opinions would be very much appreciated. ^_^
 * Banner number one!
 * Banner number two!
 * Banner number three!

I have no idea what you were thinking of, but that's my idea. Of course, you could use the same banner for each page, or certain people could have the PSDs/PNGs and add text for specific pages. Anyway, I'll await your critique. ^_^

TroisNyxEtienne : OMG... they're cute ! Ya know, I could draw out a few ideas from these. I don't know what the width of this page is, so I'll try to make it "wider wide." Let's see...

Doc rocco : Awesome. :D I can't wait to see them.

As for page width, it'll be whatever the widest image is. =\ I resized my window and managed to make it very small before a scroll bar appeared. xD But not much wider than 600px, I'd say. Then we're delving into the realm of obtrusive banners with large file sizes. :\

TroisNyxEtienne : They were originally 960 pixels in width (the width of a Powerpoint slide).

Here they are :


 * Header 1
 * Header 2

I hope it's wide enough..... Or maybe we'll have to make it even slimmer.

Doc rocco : Ooooh, pretty! They're great, man. You are a PowerPoint pro, fo' sho'! They'd look even better as PNGs! :D

I think your whole text thing is better. I should remodel mine so that you can incorporate the page name, but that's not to difficult. Gogo PSDs!

TroisNyxEtienne : Thanks. ^_^ I'm not sure how to incorporate the page name into that one, though : It's just something which goes like [Kingdom Hearts Wiki:], which I inserted into the image (WordArt, of course)... and that's it. I wonder if we could like, make a table template with that background, and at a certain column span, insert the page name.

Maybe BebopKate, ILHI, Azul or Yuan might be able to help us.

Doc rocco : Yeah, that's a brilliant idea! If we could manage that, I think we'd be set! I have no idea what'd be involved, though. My wiki markup isn't very advanced. Beyond tables, infoboxes, collapsable boxes, etc., I'm pretty limited. I'll stay in the graphics department for now. ^^;

Summer Group revised. I redid my favourite out of the three using you [Kingdom Hearts Wiki:] thing. I must say, it looks a lot better now. Yay for inspiration!

I think these could really spruce up the project pages. Heck! We could even make smaller banners to head the various sections if we wanted to make it more interesting!

TroisNyxEtienne : We all love colours, don't we... ^_^ This talk page should be turned into a mensa !

Doc rocco : Colours are awesome. :D And you're so right. If not this page, a page somewhere! This could be an epic discussion.

TroisNyxEtienne : I think I'll set up one pretty soon (but it won't be in use today, because I'll be going to sleep in 9 minutes) - I'll transfer this discussion there.

Doc rocco : Excellent. Just make sure you link me once you've done it! ^_^

That sounds like a good idea, actually. I really do need to sleep as I've an early morning. Well, early for me. xD Night!

TroisNyxEtienne : G'night !

(TNE : And that's how the Mensa came into existence.)

Okay, I managed to get text to overlay on an image, and it's adjustable! We could make a template, even! It's on display in my Sandbox. I think though, we may need to get rid of the square brackets. Also, I've done a quick explanation on it. You can look at the code and see if there's a better way, too.  Doc  rocco  03:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure. I've just taken a look. Wonderful, I say ! I wish everyone else could join us here. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:05, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Molto bene! The banners are very nice. We have 15+ KHWiki: type pages, who says we only need one? - Azul 8  1677  03:50, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Merci Azul. To date we have five, but we'tre thinking of a way to remove the square brackets. Click on the Photobucket links above. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:53, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, if we're to use all the banners, it wouldn't be that hard to change the text in the original document (I don't know if you save the PPTs, but I save my PSDs) and just upload them to the wiki or externally and keep the square brackets? At least if we did that, the text would retain the formatting used originally. With the thingo I made, I know the text looks out of place next to the text with the layer styles applied. xD  Doc  rocco  04:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I hardly ever save my PPTs ! That's the one thing which I always don't do. Unless..... you wanna keep the text outside the square brackets in my case. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, with your banners, you've put the text in the most perfect spots! It'd be dead easy to relocate the bracket, and the image would look exactly the same! Though in the case of the second one, we might need to move the text so we can fit in more, but that's still easy as pie since it's on a white background and there'd be no clone stamping. :D Then the only thing left to do is see what fonts you used for conformity. *gets to work on it now*  Doc  rocco  04:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well lemme see : I used Jerry's handwriting for the first banner and Agency FB for the second. I'm not sure what'll go with these. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I finally managed to get going with the banners, so here we have the amended versions.
 * Trois' first banner
 * Trois' second banner
 * My first banner
 * My second banner
 * My third banner

So there we are. =D Of course, I'll be able to change the text if needed, and I can send PSDs wherever if we go with this idea. Thoughts?  Doc  rocco  11:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, you actually managed to move the text ! Kudos for a job well done. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 12:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Blue-Flash : I think we should send out a survey to most of the wiki users and set a dead line and the one with the most votes gets to be the banner.

TNE : Surely, after I bring this to everyone's attention. So far I've only managed to tell you, Azul and Rocco.

Yeah, for sure. Should we have a preliminary vote as well, on whether we want a single banner, or to use all of them, and possibly more? And if we want to have a single banner, shouldn't we let other users submit entries?  Doc  rocco  13:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, we should. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Francophone Wiki forum header (2009.04.25) : CLOSED
'SUMMARY : This section was created because of this header. And, as you will conclude, it needs a revamp. I can come up with the text, but again, it'll involve the use of banners as in the previous section. I pinged a few users to help out with the wikimarkup...... let's see what develops.'

Whilst on the subject of banners, I need you guys to take a look at this. The forum header is plain red, and I have ideas on images and text, but not on wikimarkup ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

What do you want in terms of wiki markup? Like, an image embedded in a div, or a table?  Doc  rocco  00:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm thinking of an image embedded in a div, like what we last worked on... (Even our forum headers have images embedded in divs) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Err, wut? You claim you need help with wikimarkup, but to do what exactly? I can help with wikimarkup but there's nothing "wrong" with it so I've got nothing to fix, and I don't know what's wrong with it. To embed an image into a div: how? シ Lion Heart ツ 13:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

( Rocco, explain... you were the one who created the idea. See User:Doc rocco/Sandbox - Rocco started this idea.) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's beautiful. The markups just the same. (Again, wow. I was going to do something like this for my talkbox but never did it in the end because it would hurt my head too much) --But the code can be re-used, develop an image, and change the pixel sizes to match the image sizes height and width, the indent size where the text starts. Though it will have to be aligned left for it to work, right Doc? 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Left ? o.O Okay. I'll give it a try. No : first I have to develop something. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:22, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, let's see how this goes (chances are that I might have to reposition the text) :

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Okay, it isn't working. The text colour needs to be white and for some reason, it just doesn't change. Lemme try with 1024 pixels and see the difference in width : No, that was too big. I think I'll need a maximum of 800 pixels. I'll try reuploading.

TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader800.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Okay, it didn't work. ILHI, Rocco, anyone ! Help ! Please........

Let me try changing the text to white Ice  boy  14:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC) http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

It worked, ya? Ice boy  14:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

What about the one at 800 pixels (the second one) ? I think the width is better. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:53, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, let's try it on that one:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader800.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Hmm... why doesn't the text come in the middle? Ice boy  14:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * EDIT CONFLICT

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg <p style="position: absolute; bottom: 0.3em; left: 290px; width: 225px; padding: 0; background-color: transparent; font-weight: bold; font-size: 20px;"> Vue d'ensemble >

HOWEVER, you need to have extra space for the " > ****". There isn't enough space on there unless you modify the text. 14:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

DO NOT use 800px as it is hardly "low-resolution friendly". I use average size and it goes off the right margin. 14:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * HOLD ON. My current code WILL work in the template. 15:01, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

yeah... but just an idea of mine: having the text a bit bigger Ice  boy  15:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg <p style="position: absolute; bottom: 0.3em; left: 290px; width: 225px; padding: 0; background-color: transparent; font-weight: bold; font-size: 20px;"> Vue d'ensemble

OMG ! That's huge ! Then where do we put in the Pagename as ILHI tried putting in ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

To prove it works, look at the forumheader on the wiki, and the current way works fine - look at the subforums. Any other changes? 15:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look. EDIT : Wonderful ! Now, I'm trying to see what I can do for the Vue d'ensemble page. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : Thanks, guys ! Unbirth and I owe you big time. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:26, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Affiliates page ! (2009.05.10)
'SUMMARY : This idea was brought up by Azul on BebopKate's talk page. We've gained a new affiliate and we're now thinking of how to structure a page just for our affiliates and our sister Wikia projects. Now, time to realise that idea.'

Well, we can scratch off the KHInsider off our list of possible affiliates. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 05:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

What, they said no ? Anyway, I can't even find the site (the link from Heartstation isn't working and I can't even get a snapshot). The francophone wiki gets a nod from me. ^_^ For Final Fantasy Almanach, I believe you'll have to ask DeadlySlashSword - he's there, but just a regular user - I think he'll be able to ping the admins over there. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Can't find it? Try this link. If not, I can get a snapshot. Yeah, a forumite named Victor over at the KHI's forums said "I do not think there is any interest in affiliating ourselves (KHI) with your website.". I don't know if he speaks for the whole KHInsider staff but..... there's a lot more KH sites out there. -Luxza 05:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, we'll keep watch over other sites for now. Oh, and do ask Unbirth if he can get to Kingdom Fantasy. Your voice has more of a say in this, and not mine. If I could, I'd keep watch over the forums (because I'm pretty sure KHI doesn't run on one voice alone). TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT 06:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC) : Almost forgot - I tried accessing KHI from Heartstation. So trying that external link doesn't work.

That user isn't listed as staff here. You should probably try filling out this form instead, Azul. &mdash; Yuan <font color="#00BFFF">Saluto!<font color="#1E90FF">Acta 06:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Yuan, think you or Azul or BebopKate can ping Unbirth and get him to ask Kingdom Fantasy ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : 06:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC) Whilst I figure out how to work out the Affiliate page, I need help on these :


 * Calling Unbirth. Done. Will try pinging Kingdom Fantasy perhaps, in a few hours, or maybe tomorrow (since they're also affiliated with Heartstation).
 * Getting snapshots. Will find more once more affiliates join us. Thus far I've only managed to gather the francophone wiki and Heartstation logos.
 * Getting the affiliates together.
 * Getting everyone's point of view.
 * Getting the sister Wikia projects together (the francophone wiki's already under cover. ^_-)

Okay, these are what I had in mind : Chain of Memories cards - all made by ourselves ! Sooner or later we'll have to gather more images - a logo would be preferred for each site. If all else fails, we'll use the usual heart-crown-Keyblade sequence. Since I'm sizing these at 100px each, each line can only fit six. Or, we'll arrange it according to the number of affiliates we manage to reel in. (Speaking of which, I have to see if I can get help with Kingdom Fantasy...)

Nice. These look great, and fit in with the Kingdom Hearts element. I think that the middle image should reflect on the affiliate's logo. Heartstation's does, for example. - DoorToNothing

^_^ I tried my hardest to save the francophone wiki logo, but I couldn't (everytime it ended up showing the command "Save Target As" instead of "Save Picture As", and so I gave up, and thought of something close to it. Since the logo is yellow, I might as well pick something yellow. Then again, I think I should ask Unbirth to just meet me at the Mensa... TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

About KHI, I'm on the forum staff there and I saw Azul's thread earlier. Did you bother to ask Silh, the admin? Don't listen to what Victor and Rain said, Victor is just in charge of video games and Rain is strict about her information. They don't speak for KHI as a whole. At least we have Heartstation though, since alot of our information at KHI used to be given to us because of the person responsible for Heartstation. She's a retired staff member of KHI. Guardian Soul 01:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Think you can help us get their affiliation ? Please ? I'm terrible when it comes to approaching people. o.O TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 02:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. For the logos, you can simply take a printscreen of the image and edit it in Photoshop. Try taking it direct from the source though ([http://fr.kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Fichier:Wiki.png link, because I'm nice :P). &mdash; Yuan <font color="#00BFFF">Saluto!<font color="#1E90FF">Acta 05:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Merci. Oh, and by the way, I don't have Photoshop. I did all this stuff on PowerPoint. ^_^ I'll upload the new version of the Francophone Wiki card soon.

EDIT : Done. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow... like it! so, how many cards/links will there be? - Ice  boy  13:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the number of affiliates we'll get. At the moment, we've got two (as you see above, Heartstation and the francophone wiki - well, I threw myself in, but after that I asked Unbirth). So if other sites respond, we'll add in more cards. There are six or seven colours for that pattern, so I've gotta work on finding the logos. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 13:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Ohhhhh~ nice idea, I like the cards a lot. But what if we get more than 9 affiliates? The numbers will still go up even if CoM cards go up to 9? We'll also repeat colors or we'll use the color that better suits the site's logo? --Yer mom 14:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll try and make it correspond with the site's logo, but if all else fails, we'll repeat colours. I have to experiment with the gradient, though... As for the numbering system, I'm not sure whether to use 1-9, 0 and then repeat, or go up. I think we should just make it go up, to indicate the number of affiliates we have. Already the card design breaks from tradition. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:14, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Here are some ideas for more affiliates: - Ice  boy  15:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kingdom Hearts Insider
 * Kingdom Hearts Ultimania
 * KH 13

should we try and contact these sites? - Ice  boy  15:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You try. And as Guardian Soul said, contact Silh. The Admin. Don't contact Victor and Rain. Silh might be more compassionate towards the Wiki and perhaps affiliate KHInsider with us. Anyway, all the rest of Heartstation's affiliates are our potential affiliates, so we're trying... I'm horrible when it comes to confronting people. You try. Please. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually not that good confronting people either... and I have really no idea what to say/ask... help... someone... - Ice  boy  15:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I'm not gonna let Azul do it - because he did it once, and failed when Victor replied him. I'll try BebopKate - she's the most senior of all of us in terms of age, and probably the most level-headed of us all. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm late ^^' (f*****g jet lag) The pictures are great, I'll try to make one myself to put on the french wiki. --Unbirth 17:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry about contacting Silh, I mean, if Kate wants to do it because she's an admin, then sure, but I can easily ask Silh because I have him on msn. I'll just run it by him when he gets on. I can't see why he would say no. Guardian Soul 18:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

@Guardian Soul : Okay, you do it. ^_^

@Unbirth : Merci... But what with the *bleep* jet lag ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

@TNE: I like it! "Confront"? Io non ho intenzione di affrontare Victor. Ha detto qualcosa di negativo del wiki e lo ignorai semplicemente. NON POSSO FALLIRE!!!!! -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Ooo, nice design! I like it! As for KHI, I'll let Guardian Soul handle it since he's already familiar with the folks there; my rational grown-up self might scare the kiddies. ^_- BebopKate 04:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@Azul : J'ai compris ce que tu viens de dire. Fascinant, hein ? Eh bien, je suis sure que Guardian Soul le fera pour nous. On ne doit que lui donner le feu vert. ^_^

@BebopKate : Thanks ! I'll let Guardian Soul do the negotiation. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, how's progress with the affiliates ? Please keep me updated. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the link to the page where we'll store the affiiliates? just being curious. And on a random note, I just remembered Mensa in spanish means Dumb referring to a woman XD! Ah, the joy of languages... --Yer mom 15:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thus implying that Ansem was all dumb. ^_^ Nest-ce pas ? Meanwhile, I believe we'll create a new page - Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Affiliates. Stuff like this should have their own project pages. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Hrm. I... don't really have any ideas to contribute, except perhaps pinging the Final Fantasy Wiki? I know that someone mentioned the Almanach, but I think that's the German one or something, and I'm talking about the English one. But if I ever do come up with more ideas, I'll be certain to make them known. MechaUltimaZero 16:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 12:34, 12 May, Ohio Time

As I said, I tried to do a logo to put on the french wiki, representing this one. Here it is: --Unbirth 17:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@Unbirth : Wonderful ! ^_^ And the colour's just right. What do you guys think ?

@MechaUltimaZero : I mentioned the Almanach, and yes, it's the German one - one of our users is in it. As far as I remember, we've even tried for francophone allies (hence the francophone wiki and the attempt to get Kingdom Fantasy). The Final Fantasy Wiki would also be a good idea, as they have brief accounts of Kingdom Hearts appearances of Final Fantasy characters. Azul, ILHI, Yuan, Drake and all those from the Final Fantasy Wiki, please take a cue. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 23:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the FFWiki has us on their Links page under FF-related or something. @TNE:Parla l'italiano? O tu capisci la lingua perché è simile al francese? -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 00:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

@Azul : Parce que c’est dérivé du latin, je comprends tout ce que tu dis. C’est de la langue française que je comprends le latin, et ensuite, les autres langues. Mais je ne parle pas italien, désolée…

What, they have FF-related links ?

Credo di aver capito. Yes, the page can be found here -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 00:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, but it's like, only in a list of links. Think we should make a card for that as well ? (I've got no choice but to use yellow !) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 00:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I say no. They have us as a link, so should they be placed as a link. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, no one else has us as a link... Why the double standards ? Just because they put all their affiliates in links doesn't mean we have to do the same, n'est-ce pas ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I meant, we're not affiliates of them. We just link out from them. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay. But where do we put the links (which are not cards) ? o.O TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm on FFWiki too, y'know! MechaUltimaZero 11:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Atlantica Song template ? (2009.05.13)
SUMMARY : I know I'm not a fan of Atlantica's song system but I still need to organise those songs...

I had this idea in mind only just now. I'll base it on my TNE-Subpages template.

As you can see, it's not complete. There's still a few more things I intend to do for the title bar. Like, add a shell, or a fish from the title image, or summat.

The colours of the songs are based on the buttons and commands introduced : Swim This Way involved the blue circle with, so it's blue. Part Of Your World involved the green circle with a, so it's green. Under The Sea involved the training, so it's pink. Ursula's Revenge involved the purple circle with, so it's purple. And because A New Day is Dawning uses all training buttons, I ended up putting it in silver.

'''Nah, I think we should probably just use a "See Also" thing instead of a Template. Granted, though, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter that much. MechaUltimaZero 11:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)'''

'''Great idea. I know I hate the songs very much, but a good idea is a good idea. Amy Cotton 11:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)'''

'''Hrm. Given that the alternative would probably be a category, I suppose I'll just go along with it after all. MechaUltimaZero 11:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC) 7:52, 13 May 2009 (Ohio Time)'''

Although I'm not a fan of Atlantica, I think this is a good idea! a crab image huh? how about this: - Ice  boy  13:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks OK (I could however turn one of them around so they're both facing the middle if you'd like)

EDIT: Done! - Ice  boy  13:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

fr:Utilisateur:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa