Talk:Universe of Kingdom Hearts

Quote:

"Realm of In Between

The Realm of In Between (or the Realm of Twilight) is the third Plane of Existence in the Kingdom Hearts series, and lies between the Realm of Light and Realm of Darkness. Thus far the only known Worlds to exist in this plane are: Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, Twilight Town and The World that Never Was. Each world tied closer to the Realm of Light or the Realm of Darkness, with the exception of Twilight Town, which exists exactly in the middle. Yen Sid's Tower also exists in this Realm."

And then there's the image:

Dan da Man36 17:53, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

GS undefined

the meridian's actual name is dark margin. that's the cutscene in days and the name it has when you use a cheat. I screwed that one up, my bad.

So about the dark corridors...
Maybe the other members can detect the dark corridors use in the castle since he did went to twilight town once he was out.--Masgrande 07:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Wonderland Portal
Should we mention Alice from Wonderland? When talking to her in Kingdom Hearts, she mentions she arrived in Wonderland after falling through a hole. This lead Sora to theorize that there are "other methods of inter-world travel besides Gummi ships". This could mean that some Worlds have portals to other worlds in specific locations, either naturally-occuring wormholes or rifts resulting from spatial distortion or disruption.

That last theory doesn't really need to be included, since it has no canon basis. But maybe we should mention that Alice got to Wonderland through a portal from her own world.

--Cyberweasel89 18:08, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah it's just like the Underworld, it's a different world inside another.--Masgrande 07:32, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Strange senetnce
Sayin that the Realm of Nothingness is the fourth Plane of Existence is strange (and paradoxical). If it's the Realm of Nothingness is the realm of non-existence. That sentence should be removed.Redeemer &amp; Destroyer 00:00, January 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Done.-- Lapis of the Night  00:04, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sperate Articles
Why can't Realm of Light, Dark Margin, and etc can't had their own articles? --Cococrash11 07:46, January 23, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11


 * I think they did at one point, but I don't know why they were merged. I can only assume the articles weren't good enough on their own.-- Lapis of the Night  05:36, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

More on the Corridors of Darkness
I'm not sure if I'd be penalised for putting it straight into the article, but from what I've witnessed, MX and Vanitas were the first to use the Corridors of Darkness - chronologically. Shouldn't that be put in ? ★ Joyeux Wiki versaire ! ★  04:47, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Who is the Ruler of each world?

 * I guess the current ruler/leaders are:


 * Mayor (Destiny Islands)
 * King Mickey (Disney Castle/Disney Town/Timeless River)
 * N/A (Traverse Town)
 * Queen of Hearts (Wonderland)
 * Zeus (Olympus Coliseum)
 * Kerchak (Deep Jungle)
 * Sultan (Agrabah)
 * Mayor (Halloween Town)
 * Monstro (Monstro)
 * King Triton (Atlantica)
 * Peter Pan & Captain Hook (Neverland & Hook's Ship)
 * Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee (Radiant Garden)
 * ??? (Twilight Town)
 * Aqua (Castle Oblivion)
 * The Emperor (The Land of Dragons)
 * Beast (Beast's Castle)
 * Governor Swann (Port Royal)
 * TRON (Space Paranoids)
 * Yen Sid (Mysterious Tower)
 * The Prince + Snow White (Dwarf Woodlands)
 * Prince Philip + Aurora (Enchanted Dominion)
 * Prince Charming + Cinderella (Castle of Dreams)
 * Grand Councilwoman (Deep Space)

Not listing the destroyed worlds (End of the World, The World That Never Was, Keyblade Graveyard (?)).


 * Even if Ansem comes back, he not only allowed the world to fail in the first place, but has also been mind-broken. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:54, June 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is usually what a leader is, yes. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:02, June 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Aren't they pretty well dead by the end of the story, though? I thought part of the reason for the Cinderella ball, at least, was because the prince was taking the throne. If not, then fine, it's still their parents. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:15, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

World Time
Okay so i'm getting this theory about the worlds and i won't you people to tell me what you think. So here it goes:

In Kingdom Hearts 2, Selphie and Kairi were seen in school clothes,implying that they are in a school year. But while this was going on, Hayner, Pence, and Olette were in their last days of summer vacation. So i've been thinking that maybe all of the worlds have a different time zone, or maybe time goes faster in some worlds. It's been bugging me for days and i would like to know if there are some speculations that this could be true?--65.126.114.244 00:23, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or, the Destiny Islands are a southern-hemisphere type of world (close to the equator, though), and Twilight Town is a northern-hemisphere type. Glorious  CHAOS!  01:55, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

or at destiny islands school had just started

Realms
Okay I'm confused the article states that worlds such as Twilight Town exist in the realm of nothingness, and that it's Japanese name is the realm of in between, but that doesn't make sence. In ENGLISH text Ansem the Wise said in his Secret Reports that he was banished to the realm of nothingness. Also when he first talks about Castle Oblivion, he describes it as a "world on the outer limits of light and darkness" NOT as a world in the realm of nothingness but in a forth realm all together. He also says that when a Heartless is born the old entity, their body and soul, disapears and arrives in a completely different realm, and describes Twilight Town as a world in the "chasm between light and darkness" AFTER he left the realm of nothingess. Also Pete, when in The World That Never Was, he says "this in between world" So what happened? Also the earlier parts of the article states that there are four realms also. 76.108.136.28 01:55, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The japanese-only Ansem Reports from Final Mix specifically state that there is just "this present realm, the realm of light", "the realm of darkness", and "realm of in-between". "In-Between" is the term used in Japanese material where "nothingness" is used in English (Ex: Xemnas is "Superior of the In-Between", and his element is Nothingness). Nomura even said that The World That Never Was was part of the realm of in-between, and that's the world Ansem seems to be talking about in the Secret Ansem Reports. The two terms are never used together in the same material - it is purely a difference in translation, not in meaning.03:06, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't change the facts that in the ENGLISH secret ansem reports that Ansem the Wise writes about 4 realms, one of light one of darkness, one of nothingness, and a fourth realm that he mentions as being in between light and darkness clearly stating that in english the realms of in between and nothingness are different things. Another thing he states is that he first arrives in Twilight Town he describes it as a world in the "chasm between light and darkness" which is after he escapes his banishment to the realm of nothingness. He also states that the realm of nothingness as a place "where all existence has disintegrated", so how then can a world such as Twilight Town exist there, and again I bring up Pete who calls The World That Never Was an "in between world." That says that in English there are 4 realms and the last time I checked this is an English Wiki. 76.108.136.28 15:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...no, he never writes about four realms. He describes the realm of nothingness in more detail, is what he did. Seriously, he never states, concretely, "realm of in-between" and "realm of nothingness" - they are simply two different translations for the same thing.
 * Also, seriously? Just because it's the English Wiki doesn't mean we can't look at the original material and say "Oh, it's the same thing. The translators just goofed/we aren't reading it correctly." Glorious  CHAOS!  06:17, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

He states that the realm of nothingness is something "where all existence has disintegrated" as I've mentioned earlier. I don't see how a world can exist at all. He also says that Twilight Town is in the chasm "between light and darkness" when did he ever describe the realm of nothingness as such. Also in the Secret Ansem Report 6 while he is still in the realm of nothingness he states that when a Nobody is created it disapeares from the realm of light and appear in a completely different realm he never says that they appear in the realm he was currently in. Also in the 6th he mentions for the first time the corridors of darkness which he says "connect the realm of nothingness with the outside world," the other realms. Later in the 7th is the first time he mentions Twilight Town and Castle Oblivion, worlds between light and darkness and by this time he would have already escaped the realm of nothingness using the dark corridors as he mentions in the previous one he stats using a new identity, DiZ, before returning to the realm of light. After that point he never mentions the realm of nothingness again, but also begins to describe a new realm situated between light and darkness, which he refers to in his 11th report as the "realm between". The only time the two realms are mentioned together is in his 6th report, where he refers to the two places as two different areas.76.108.136.28 19:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Also Ansem the Wise describes the "realm between" as unstabe and that corridors of darkness appear from time to time, but in the realm of nothingness he didn't know the corridors existed until he accepted the darkness and started to use it. If the two realms were indeed the same wouldn't he have noticed them appearing while he was trapped. And wouldn't he have noticed the existence of Twilight Town, Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, and The World That Never Was before he returned.76.108.136.28 20:11, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness.
 * If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth walk with darkness as a friend. Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated.
 * How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness?
 * In this realm, where all existence has been disintegrated, I have just barely managed to preserve my sense of self by continuing to think and to write.
 * With this new power, I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world. While it is still difficult to come and go as I please, my banishment is now a thing of the past. To deceive Xehanort and my apprentices, I first used my power to change form before returning to the realm of light.
 * Seeking to uncover the plans of this Organization, I have decided to head for where six of its members have gathered. Towering over the outer limits of the realm between darkness and light:
 * This "realm between" is quite unstable, with corridors of darkness appearing from time to time.
 * The Realm of the Present...The Realm of darkness. The Realm of light. And, The Realm of in-between.
 * Now, in addition to the realm of light in which we reside, there is also a realm of darkness, and the realm between which connects the two. The realm of darkness is most forbidden; I am told none who set foot there have ever returned.

Concerning the structure of worlds, first Sora and the Disney characters, and where ever we dwell, these so-called normal worlds are attached to the Realm of Light. If all of these exist at the same level and you imagine them all sitting on top of a plane, there is also a plane of existence on the other side where the Realm of Darkness exists.

At present, there are 4 worlds in-between these planes that have appeared: A) Castle Oblivion, B) Twilight Town, C) Yen Sid's Tower, and D) The World That Never Was. Constructed in this manner, Light < C < B > A > D > Darkness, you can imagine 2 planes with stairs ranging between the worlds. There are 2 means of transfer between these worlds, first being the Gummi Ship Sora uses in what is called the "Sea of Outer Space". In this way they can come and go between the worlds dotted through space. There is an invisible shell covering these worlds, so as to preserve the original world from interference from other worlds. By opening the hearts of each of these worlds this shell is broken and will become a group of shooting stars pouring down. Once settled, these shooting stars will become the Gummi Parts of the Gummi Ship. Because they were originally from the shell covering this world, it becomes possible to interfere into each world.

There is one more method, the use of the "Dark Corridor". There are those who are on a fallen path, essentially not being on the path they should be. Only those who can be said to have a Dark existence or an In-between existence can make these doorways. On rare occasion those with particularly strong feelings or hatred, such as the case with Beast and DiZ and perhaps others like them can open these paths. However you must be careful when coming into contact with such darkness. As such, if you use these paths too often you will be completely swallowed by darkness. Sora has used these paths several times before, but the degree of frequency hasn't allowed the darkness to stain his heart, so you can think of the influential power of darkness as being dependent upon the strength of the persons heart.

As for the Nobodies who have no heart and the King and Riku, using these paths many times doesn't concern them. Why doesn't the darkness progressively swallow them you ask? There are secret similarities between the two that are talked about in the game.


 * What can be called the dark coastline seen at the beginning and end of KHII is the tip of a world. It is not strictly part of the realm of darkness but rather what serves as the boundary line in between the dark and the in-between.

Nomura only covers "Light", "In-Between", and "Darkness". Xehanort does the same thing. Ansem talks about how unstable the Realm Between is, and how Corridors infrequently appear there. That matches what he said earlier about the realm of nothingness disintegrating things, and him finding a corridor of darkness there. Nomura says that you can only use the corridors once your heart gains the power of darkness, and Ansem basically says that as soon as he accepted some darkness, he was able to make a corridor out. This means that there is no further incongruity between the two situations. Ansem also says that the worlds in the "realm in-between" are refuges of those from lost worlds - what we saw with Traverse Town, for example. We also have The World That Never Was, which doesn't even exist, Mysterious Tower and Land of Departure/Castle Oblivion, which are bastions with their own precarious existence, and Twilight Town, where we have at least one Nobody being born, matching the "other realm" Ansem SoD talked about in the original Ansem's Report. All of these situations match "a realm where existence is disintegrated" - none of them are meant to exist, and they are the dregs of worlds devoured by darkness.

As I said earlier, we also have the fact that "In-Between" is used to refer to the element of Nobodies and Void - Dense materials are called "In-Between" in Japanese, and Xemnas is "The Superior of the In-Between". Xemnas also frequently calls the existence of Nobodies/Twilight/nothingness something "in-between light and dark".

From an aesthetic standpoint, it doesn't make sense to duplicate Nothingness/In-Betweenness. You have + (Light), - (Dark), and 0 (In-between/Nothingness). It provides a nice continuum.

However, re-reading the reports, I do think it's possible to fairly interpret the realm of nothingness as applying to that empty plane that Riku finds himself in at the beginning of Chain of Memories, or possibly the void that you fight Xemnas in. It's not what I think is true, based on all this evidence, but from the Report alone, I think it's possible to read that. However, we have had multiple, both from the author himself acting as "Word of God", and in the most recent game, and even when alternate realms were first introduced, which only enumerate three realms. Reading the realm of nothingness as separate is a conceit that only occurs in KH2, and it just isn't supported by the other material. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:59, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

You just touched upon something else, the area that you fight Xemnas, it is different than anything else seen in the series. NOTHING seems to exist there. Unlike the realm of light where the worlds of Disney, Radiant Garden, and Destiny Islands, the realm of darkness where Kingdom Hearts is, and the realm of In-between where Twilight Town, Mysterious Tower, The World That Never Was, Traverse Town, and Castle Oblivion all EXIST. Also this area looks similar to the thorns of nothingness that the Twilight Thorn and Xemnas, while in this area, both use, and appears around the portals that the generic, nonhuman, Nobodies travel through if one looks closely enough. Also the designs of the swirling areas appear similar to generic Nobodies, which are basically personiffications of nothingness considering they live without hearts. Also Nomura in his report only mentioned the worlds and the realms in which they exist. Indeed he never mentioned an empty realm nor did he deny it, he left to our imaginations, but hopefully he will clear things up in a future game as has been done with several things before, for example who the kid in the videos Another Side, Another Story... and the Deep Diver version and was later revealed to be Roxas, whose backstory was a mystery until the release of 358/2 Days.76.108.136.28 21:51, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Another thing about the final battle field of Kingdom Hearts II is that when you move around in it you don't seem to go anywhere because the surroundings appear to stay in place, supporting the idea that nothing exists here.76.108.136.28 21:53, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That may be, but its pure speculation, and as I've said before, (1) only once has a "realm of nothingness" been mentioned, (2) it wasn't in an enumerated list of realms, and (3) it still jives quite well with the realm between. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:53, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I'll admit that the last things I added were speculation, but I got my point across: We don't know what this place is. It also conveys my point of view of what it is but,I admit, it could just as easily be a part of the realm of light due to its apparent absence of darkness. Also as I said all this has a good chance to be clarified in a later game. Until then if the article continues to say there are 3 realms, at least say there are 3 CONFIRMED realms known to exist.76.108.136.28 23:21, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would imply that we hedge nearly every single phrase on the wiki as "confirmed". All enumerations of the realms only list three, and all information on the wiki is assumed to be confirmed. If Nomura later says "I changed my mind", we change the articles accordingly, but until then, we assume that he hasn't. Thanks for your input, though, it's very much appreciated. Glorious  CHAOS!  12:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)