Talk:Limit Break

Great page, whoever did this. I could never do this. I hope this page doesn't get combined with limits.--Xsonicdragon 05:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Limits can be used at any battle at any time as long as Sora has MP. And why is it that ars arcanum, strike raid, ragnorak, and sonic blade are not in the limits page? Limit Breaks and Limits work differently. 1. During a limit, you are invincible. During a Limit Break, you can still be harmed, just that the damage is reduced. 2. Limits can easily be used by just using all of Sora's MP (with the exception of ragnorak, ars arcanum, strike raid, and sonic blade. Limit Breaks can be used when your hp goes down to the yellow bar of the hp bar and makes it harder to use it again for the current mission after using it once. 3. The length and damage of limits depends on the current enemy and his location and which buttons you press to attack. The length of limit breaks depends on your current hp, the lower the hp, the more time your limit break lasts. --Xsonicdragon 16:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Trinity Limit is one of Sora's Limits in KH2. The same ability appears in KH1, with different mechanics, but is still obviously a limit. During all of those ars arcanum, strike raid, etc. abilities, Sora cannot be harmed (except in CoM if the attack is broken).
 * Again, every character who we've had a "limit" for has the same "limit break" (except for Riku). This is a good hint that they're the same basic thing, with tweaked gameplay mechanics.
 * Really, all of this "great difference" could be covered by simply having three sections at the lead explaining the varying mechanics of limits in KH, KHCoM (Trinity Limit only, I believe), KH2, and KHDays, and then we have the list of the different limits throughout the games. Right now, half of this article is spent admitting that yes, most of these limit breaks already appeared in other games.
 * Ragnarok is the same. Fantasia and Teamwork are the same, I believe, and Pearl is also the same as what Mickey had in KH2, I believe. As for "only half of them being unoriginal"....that's exactly my point. Much too many of them are holdovers from the Limit system for it to be considered something entirely unique.
 * Sorry, I was wrong about Limit Form then.
 * Your Sephiroth and Hades Cup examples are, frankly, terrible as analogies, as that has nothing to do with gameplay mechanics. Trinity Limit did not remain the same between KH and CoM, as in CoM it did not deplete the MP gauge, and you could reuse it or any other ability immediately. My point is that Limits and Limit Breaks are the same basic things - super attacks that can only be used in infrequent situations. This is the same thing in the Final Fantasy series - in FF7, Limit Breaks must be built up through taking damage, in FF8, they are random at lower health, and in FF10, they build up through attacking. However, no one would be silly enough to claim that they are entirely original concepts - they're simply mechanic tweaks of what we all recognize is the same concept.
 * I really have trouble seeing how you consider the Limit page "too crowded". "Half of the Limit Breaks" are identical and would be redundant, and the page is one of the shorter pages we have on the wiki that isn't a stub. If anything, a concerted effort to clean it up would result in an even shorter page.
 * "Limit Break" is not a "new battle technique". It's a very slight tweak to how the battle system handles super-attacks. Glorious  CHAOS!  20:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually you could get hurt while using ragnorak, ars arcanum, strike raid, and sonic blade in kingdom hearts 2 final mix. Its just for ragnorak and ars arcanum, you can't get hurt during the part of the attack which activates when you activate it. But once that part is over, you can be hurt after that though it is usually hard to get hit during that time. For strike raid and sonic blade, you can still be hurt when you're about to attack again but haven't yet.

Anyways Limits can be used in frequent situation, but not limit breaks. Like I said before, Limits can be used anytime in battle as long as Sora has MP, making it usable in any battle situation. Even if you are alone you can still use trinity limit alone, it'll just be weaker. You can't compare limit breaks from kingdom hearts 358/2 days to ones like final fantasy 7. In final fantasy 7, they're just when you are at low HP. But when you can use limit breaks in kingdom hearts 358/2 days depends where the yellow bar is. You could have about half your hp left but still use it as long as the yellow bar reached up there.

I know about half of the limit breaks are related to some limits or special attacks, but they are being used differently, for example: Mickey's pearl attack in kh2 is shooting out a ball of light that can't be charged. Mickey's pearl limit break makes a beam of light hit the enemy and can still be charged to make it stronger. They may have the same name and are used by the same person, but they do different things. Same for sora's ragnorak and other people's attacks like donald's or goofy's. --Xsonicdragon 22:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ...for the love of- people, when I say "the game mechanics have been slightly tweaked", is no one hearing that? Seriously, this is not an "entirely new feature, the likes of which we have never seen before" as some of you seem to be claiming. It's a minor tweak to the system we had in previous games, just like how in KH, Trinity Limit was a contextual ability, while in KH2, it could be activated whenever Sora had full MP. This does not change the fact that the ability is, in essence, a "Super-attack". The fact that you guys are going out of your way to say "It's impossible to compare the "Limit Break" in Days to the "Limit Break" in FF7 because they activate at different gauge levels"...that's absolutely ridiculous. Anyone can recognize that the concept in Days is clearly derived from the same concept we had in KH2 and most of the Final Fantasy games. I mean, you guys don't really think Nomura just suddenly said to everyone during Days' Development, "Oh my god, guys, I've got this crazy idea! What if we make every character have a unique, super-strong attack when they meet certain conditions? This is awesome, why hasn't anyone thought of this before?!"
 * Similarly, in KH1, new Item Synthesis unlocked as you made all the items available, while in KH2, it unlocked as you found recipe items or leveled the Moogle. It's still Item Synthesis. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: For Strike Raid, Ars Arcanum, and the rest - I've used them every time I've fought Sephiroth, sitting there with him slashing me, and I never took damage until the ability deactivated. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I have gotten hurt before using ragnorak. I was up against Xemnas data battle (first battle) and he was using his attack where he was slashing me like crazy and he wouldn't stagger from damage (the screen was slightly darker.) Anyway i was in limit form, used ragnorak, hit him with all the slashes, but when sora was charging the ball of light i got hit and it deactivated ragnorak. something like that also happened when i was against Terra. I was just using sonic blade against him while he going to hit me with his ground combo (the one ending with the drill). Reason i used it was to heal me since he was chasing me and i had 1 hp left. I activated it and managed to hit him and got healed a bit, but then when i was about to press triangle again his drill got me and i got hurt. You can check limit form page to make sure. And against Sephiroth, he will react to hits, how can he be slashing you if you already hit him. Even if he began to slash again, you probably would hit him again with that attack unless it was already over, where you would take damage unless you started another special attack from limit form. --Xsonicdragon 03:49, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how Limit Form works in KH2FM, but in KH1, the situation is exactly as I described it. However, anything with triangle - that means the previous attack ended, and you have to activate the next one. As such, it seems likely that's why you got hit. Glorious  CHAOS!  03:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought you were talking about KH2FM. Sorry about the misinterpretation. --Xsonicdragon 04:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh and i wonder........ WHY are we discussing about whether the limit break page should be combined with the limits page here? Didn't it say to discuss where it shows a link in the article part of the page. Oh well, it works fine here too. --Xsonicdragon 04:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If limit breaks were combined with limits, wouldn't it be very crowded. The contents table (in the beginning) would be very long and adding limit breaks to the limit page would almost double the size of the limit page. I don't want people having to look at such a long page for just special attacks. For like characters it would make sense for it to be long because characters have journal entries, their place in the storyline, ect. But for limit page to be as long as a character's page is quite unusual and weird.--Xsonicdragon 00:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge Template
Shouldn't we remove the Merge Template? No one is discussing about this anymore. I think it's settled that it will NOT be merged with limits. I'm only typing this to make sure nobody else wants to keep discussing whether it should be merged. Also i don't want people complaining to me about how i removed the merge template without permission.--Xsonicdragon 03:11, September 9, 2009 (UTC)