Talk:Terra-Xehanort/Archive 1

Automated transfer of Problem Report #14756
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #14756 on 2008-10-27 02:15:50 UTC

''about 90% of this is pure conjecture. We don't know anything about how Xehanort was or exactly what he did while he was at Radiant Garden - we only have the Ansem Reports to go off of, and those are vague at best and most of the information in here is speculation extrapolating from the few bits of information we discover in the Reports. Nowhere is -Xehanort- ever portrayed as a heartless bastard - he's only in one cutscene, and he's decidedly not 'evil'.''
 * Feel free to delete stuff if you don't believe its supported at all. Just make sure you tell us why beforehand. I haven't actually cross-examined this with the ansem repots yet, and there might be quite a bit of speculation there. XienZo 21:29, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

It's Never said that Xehanort is a heartless bastard but it's more what isn't said. He mentions test subjects in the second report, that their hearts "collapsed" then never says anything else about it. No guilt for senseless "Death"

and we've really only seen xehanort in one cutscene and"both portions of Xehanort which make up is Ulimate characterization) In other words "apprentice Xehanort" may not have been a 'heartless batard' But "heartless and Nobody" certainly were.

Master Xehanort
Do you think he has connections with Master Xehanort? Cuz if he does, we should add that information! Squallinoa 08 19:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, well we don't have any proof of that yet, despite how obvious it is, and because of that, we really shouldn't add that information just yet. XienZo 00:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm just a guest, feel free to ignore this, but I had this theory before KH2 came out that Roxas was connected with Sora and a lot of people dismissed me. Well I have another Theory, I think Xehanort is actually Baldinort's Apprentice, and something happened and they were seperated, Xehanort ended up with Ansem and when asked his name, given his fondness for name thievery, he said his name was Xehanort. It would also explain why the apprentice's suit looks so similar to Riku-possesed-by-Xehanort's outfit.--70.130.133.170 11:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a lot on Birth by Sleep and the Xehanort theory on my [| home page] and u can see what i have to say there

Final Boss
Well, since you have to beat Sora's story before Riku's,from a progression standpoint,Xehanort's heartless is the final boss of chain of memories.

how do u do that chat box thing i want to do it

Trivia not a Forum
I think we should erase the last three trivia points, they are just speculation and this is a wikia not a forum.--Masgrande 23:30, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. But, uh, new topics at the bottom, not somewhere in the middle.—Urutapu 02:28, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sorry didn't know that.--Masgrande 17:08, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

BBS
found pic of xehanort is bbs as secret fight!!!

It seemed Master Xehanort and Xehanort are the same but Master Xehanort stole Terra's body and become the Xehanort 9-10 years later. So are you going to merge Master Xehanort and Xehanort togther? --Cococrash11 20:40, January 9, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

Yeah, I can't seem to find the edit button for this article anywhere, so any chance that will become available now? It's now known that Master Xehanort and the present day one are one in the same, only with Xehanort possessing Terra. We also know that he used Terra to orchestrate the death of Master Eraqus and destroyed the Land of Departure. Him and Braig both met and made plans to become apprentices of Ansem to find a means to control the darkness, so there's quite a lot of information there. I'm just saying, even Wikipedia has this information, so this site should really be updated soon as it is purely a Kingdom Hearts Wiki.-Darknessofhearts @Darkestofhearts: The pages of all BBS-related characters are edit-locked for the time being.-- Lapis of the Night  00:40, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Just a note, if you look closely in the secret ending where Xehanort is talking to Braig, his boots are the same as the ones his Heartless and Master Xehanort wear - you can tell by the slight swirl indent on the edge. Doreiku Kuroofangu 08:27, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

The name the Birth by Sleep credits gave him is Terra-Xehanort so maybe we should move his article instead of merging it with Master Xehanort, but we should link the articles together like we did with Xehanort, Xehanort's heartless and Xemnas.--Masgrande 13:58, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with not merging the articles. However, at what point should Xehanort's biography begin? The recent edit basically gives all the information on Master Xehanort (without excessive detail however), which I don't think should count for the Terra-Xehanort hybrid

Samoth 12:56, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * We have several different characters here:


 * Terra (original body, possibly soul or heart)
 * Master Xehanort (original heart and soul)
 * Riku (original and final being)


 * Xehanort (Terra's body, Master Xehanort's heart, one or both of their souls)
 * Lingering Sentiment (Terra's Absent Silhouette, possibly heart or soul)
 * Xehanort's Heartless (Master Xehanort and possibly Terra's heart, the brown-cloaked man)
 * Ansem (Heartless: Master Xehanort's heart in Riku's Body) *[NOT Xehanort's Heartless, we have three whole games which call it Ansem]
 * Riku-Ansem (intermediate stage with Master Xehanort's heart)
 * Xemnas (Nobody: Terra's body, either Terra or Master Xehanort's soul, or both)

Because of the unclear location of Terra's heart and soul, we can't specifically say which of these belongs to which, so the only solution is to have a page for each of them. Terra's article will obviously begin with his beginning, and go until MX takes his body. It will then lead on to Xehanort and Lingering Sentiment. Master Xehanort's article will do the same, except that it will go to Xehanort. Riku will cover his entire existence, but take a break for his "Ansem" and "Riku-Ansem" stints.

Xehanort's article will cover his entire period of existence, but will also document the internal struggle of Terra's heart/soul and MX's heart/soul.

Xehanort's Heartless's article will cover his entire period of existence, from his fall into darkness, up to his possession of Riku.

Ansem will cover his entire existence as the dominant personality in Riku's body, up to his subsumation at the end of CoM. Riku-Ansem will cover the portion will cover the being that has Ansem's appearance and powers, but is totally controlled by Riku.

There shouldn't be any overlap between these - once a being takes a different form, the story goes to one or more different articles, but does not continue at the original article. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:00, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Image (Spoiler)
Since it's quite important, should we add a picture of Xehanort possessing Terra to the BBS section? Well within the spoiler tags, of course. Doreiku Kuroofangu 06:21, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Too many bodies
I've removed this from the page:

Xehanort was once known as Master Xehanort, a highly skilled and revered Keyblade master. Having become corrupt with the concept of darkness throughout his travels, Master Xehanort became obsessed with finding Kingdom Hearts to gain ultimate power. To accomplish his plans, Xehanort crafted his own apprentice known as Vanitas out of the darkness in the heart of one of his former students, Ventus. Using the byproduct of Vanitas's creation, the Unversed, Xehanort begins to search for the Princesses of Heart in an attempt to use the light in their hearts to conquer Kingdom Hearts.

Master Xehanort eventually reunited with his old classmate, Master Eraqus in the Land of Departure to watch over the Master Qualification Exams of Aqua and Terra. Unknown to Eraqus, Xehanort was manipulating the exam by using his powers over darkness, resulting in Terra failing and Aqua passing. In Terra, Xehanort saw great potential and sought to convert him to darkness for the next phase of his plan. Xehanort also sought to make Ventus stronger, as he planned to have Vanitas merge with Ventus to create an ultimate weapon known as the X-Blade, the only weapon capable of opening Kingdom Hearts, under his control.

Over the course of the storyline, Xehanort meets Braig, who joins him in his plans to slowly turn Terra to the dark side, scarring both his eye and face in the process. As Terra accepts the darkness into his heart, Xehanort confronts Master Eraqus and shows his true nature to his former friend. After much turmoil, Xehanort orchestrates the death of Eraqus and destroys the Land of Departure before heading off to claim Kingdom Hearts.

In order to keep the Terra, Master Xehanort, Riku, and derivative pages organized and prevent overlap and redundancy, each one must focus only on its subject. Thus, this page should only focus on "Possession" to "Becoming a Heartless". There should be a Template:Main link to the earlier forms. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:39, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Personality Be Needs a Trimmin'
While I agree that Xehanort himself has not made a lot of appearnces, there is quite of a lot of information on him from the various Ansem reports. The reports made by him refer to the people he tranformed into heartless as simply as experiments and not as people. He also has never ever shown as concern for anybody, concern for others was not stated in any of the reports or shown in any of his appearnces. He easily betrayed a man who saved his life, stole his identity, turned his apprentices on him, banished him to another world, and destroyed his world. The guy has no remorse, evident when Ansem the Wise asks if all this suffering and misery is what he wanted and his nobody responds with "All that and more." The Ansem reports state that his Heartless has destroyed numerous worlds and wanted to open Kingdom Hearts to draw out the darkness over all worlds. I can't think of a single scene where he actually tried to help someone without it being for his own personnel gain. I go on, but I'm confused as to how the personality section is not backed up. There is quite a lot of information on this guy, 26 pages to be exact.-worldhearts

Okay, I see what mean now.worldhearts

Separation
As mentioned on the talk pages, the various Xehanort/Riku/Terra pages should be strictly covering their subject, and use "main" links to get to the continuing story. As such, this has been removed from the page, and needs to be merged with the Ansem-Riku and Xemnas pages. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:13, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Xehanort's Nobody took the concept of his original name being an anagram with an X in it and applied it to the name he stole, Ansem. Thus he was called Xemnas who created The Organization, later called Organization XIII, with the other apprentices at its core. Like Xemnas, all the other members rearranged their names and put an X in them in order create a new identity for themselves. They sought to become complete beings again and be whole. Meanwhile, Xehanort's Heartless, still calling himself "Ansem", remained a spirit seeking to plunge all that is in darkness. Both portions of Xehanort sought Kingdom Hearts in order to wield the power it possesses and unleash it into the universe.

Xehanort's Heartless' plans were to control other beings and use them to collect the Princesses of Heart and use them to open up the portal to Kingdom Hearts. To this end, he commanded the Heartless to manipulate the darkness within the Disney villains to serve their needs. Maleficent, being manipulated by the Heartless, led this group of villains to control the darkness by using the heartless and collecting the princesses to open the path to Kingdom Hearts through an artificial keyhole. This group used Hollow Bastion as a base of operations and used Ansem's reports to help them control the heartless and the darkness.

None of them knew, however, that they were being used by a far greater evil that was residing in the shadows, waiting for the opportune moment to claim Kingdom Hearts for himself. At the same time, Xehanort's heartless would use the Heartless to destroy entire worlds and collect the world hearts to form the dimension of Kingdom Hearts itself. He also searched for a host to take control of so that he may regain a physical presence. His choice for a host would later turn out to be Riku.

Exploiting Riku's jealous friendship with Sora, Xehanort's heartless nearly shattered their friendship and took possession of Riku's body, sending his heart to the dark realm. Unfortunately for him, the goal he sought for throughout his whole life, Kingdom Hearts, ended up destroying him with its light, giving Riku back his body. Kingdom Hearts was soon sealed away by Sora and King Mickey, which destroyed billions of heartless and the End of the World as well as restoring all the worlds taken by Xehanort and the Heartless. (Xehanort's Heartless would still live on in Riku, causing some of the events of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts II)

Meanwhile, Xemnas, the Nobody of Xehanort, sought to find Kingdom Hearts by collecting human hearts. His goal was to use Kingdom Hearts to make himself a kingdom, where he would be the ruler forever. Leading Organization XIII (Xigbar, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus, Zexion, Saïx, Axel, Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, and Xion), Xemnas controlled all Nobodies and constructed a fortress that would serve as a base of operations: The Castle that Never Was. Organization XIII recruited other powerful Nobodies in their plans to find Kingdom Hearts and use its power to become complete beings again. Xemnas eventually found a fortress known as Castle Oblivion and converted it into a base of experiments where the nature of memory would be experimented on.

He was also searching frantically for a room called the "Chamber of Waking" and believed it to be somewhere within this fortress. In the meantime, Organization XIII brought chaos and destruction to many worlds in order to create more Heartless and Nobodies to control. Research was also put into the Keyblade and the Organization eventually learned that it held the literal key to forming and obtaining Kingdom Hearts.

And Xemnas, unlike his Heartless counterpart, achieved his goal. But after all of the other Organization members were slain by Sora, fate turned back on him and Kingdom Hearts was scattered by Ansem the Wise himself in an explosion that killed the former ruler of Radiant Garden. Xemnas, with no other option, absorbed the remnants of Kingdom Hearts and became ultimately powerful. However, in a climactic battle with Sora and Riku, Xemnas was destroyed by the light of the Keyblade and faded, taking Kingdom Hearts with him. This also ended the reign of Organization XIII and the Nobodies and, as Sora stated after the battle, restored the realm of light to peace and safety.

By the end of Kingdom Hearts II, the madness of Xehanort seemed to have finally been destroyed by Sora and Riku, but it is unknown if this can truly be seen as a fact.

To whoever edited the trivia section of this page, it matters not the order in which heartless and nobody are destroyed, so long as both are destroyed. I've edited the page accordingly.-Xabrin

It was I who edited it. I think it does matter. Not sure whether this is true or not, but I think I heard that if a Nobody is destroyed before it's Heartless other, it will disappear into nothingness as it has nowhere to go unless of course it's Heartless other was sent to Kingdom Hearts thus giving a place for the Nobody to go. -Rucario
 * "Not sure whether this is true or not, but I think I heard" - ergo it's speculation and should not be added. Doreiku Kuroofangu 15:41, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except we heard that from Nomura.—Urutapu 20:50, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Mickey doesn't make sense
Especially with the bit in Days, it doesn't make sense that Mickey is confusing Sora and the others in KH2. He knows that Riku calls this Ansem, and he knows that's not the "real" Ansem.

Honestly, the whole thing comes off as a pathetic attempt to make a twist out of the first game, which changes an interesting "fall into darkness" into a cliched "same evil guy comes back again and again, and he's just evil for no reason".

Would it be feasible to mention Mickey's inconsistency in the trivia? Glorious  CHAOS!  07:44, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * i'm not sure what you're saying the inconsistency is. is it that mickey didn't tell riku that it wasn't really the "real" Ansem? --Neumannz 08:03, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as we know what the motive of that same evil guy is. Re:Chain shows a lot of flaws in this whole "Ansem" trick. KH1 and KH2 showed continuity. Sulu  mata  engkudu !  08:04, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole thing's a mess. Sora and friends can tell from a glance at the portrait that it was "Ansem"'s original being, but BBS reveals that "Ansem" simply has the appearance of Master Xehanort as a young man, and that Xehanort is simply a white-haired Terra. Then, Days reveals that Riku showed "Riku-Ansem" to Mickey before KH2, (and we know that he was calling this form "Ansem" from CoM through early KH2, and told Mickey about it) (and there was the bit where Mickey's hologram fought off Ansem, so we know he saw Xehanort's Heartless), and yet in KH2, Mickey immediately tells Sora that "Oh no, it's this other guy, you guys are silly". Glorious  CHAOS!  08:14, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except we don't actually know what MX looked like when he was young, other than the build and the hairstyle, and we don't know when and how Riku found out that "Ansem" wasn't Ansem (for all we know Mickey explained it on the road away from Castle Oblivion; Calling himself "Ansem" at the beginning of KH2 may have been nothing more than poetic... appropriateness, so to speak. Well, actually we know that it was). I don't think Riku used the name "Ansem" once in Days to refer to X's H. And Mickey acknowledged that he needed to explain everything to Sora in KH2. --Neumannz 08:30, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * We still see in Days that XH still looks like young MX, not like the kind of thin Xehanort we see, and the clothes only make it more obvious.
 * To be accurate, I guess, Riku does not actually call it "Ansem" in Days, but the scene title is "Riku-Ansem", indicating that Xehanort is still a "spoiler", chronologically.
 * The organization also call the Heartless "Ansem" throughout Re:CoM
 * In Re:CoM, Mickey says, and is told by Riku

while." a favor. If Ansem is the victor, he's going to enslave me. If that happens, use your powers to destr---"
 * Mickey: "Phew! Sure glad I made it in time! That oughta keep Ansem busy for a
 * Mickey: "The power of light should keep Ansem locked up for a while."
 * Riku: "There's no point in doing this if I can't do it on my own. But I do need


 * Indicating that he is clearly still calling the silver-haired guy Ansem, and isn't correcting Riku about it.
 * DiZ also calls XH "Ansem" in CoM, and while Riku is clearly being poetic to call himself "Ansem" at the beginning of KH2, there is absolutely no indication that he knows that the Heartless wasn't named Ansem - it's more of a "This is who I am now".
 * Then, as soon as Mickey shows up in KHII, he says:


 * Mickey: "So that means you might be able to find out where he is!"
 * Indicating that he is not at all confused about Ansem being an ally, and silver-hair being an impostor villain.
 * Now, it is certainly possible to come up with some reason as to why Mickey uses the wrong name with Riku without any hesitation, but acts like Sora and Goofy should already know which Ansem is the real one. However, from what the game gives us, it's pretty illogical. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:18, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Mickey couldn't remember "Ansem's" true name in CoM he only remember it when he see Xemnas in KH2 and the only reason why he tells it to Sora, Donald and Goofy is because of the true Ansem picture in that computer in Radiant Garden, what i mean is maybe he don't call XH by the reall name because he doesn't remember it--Xabryn 17:42, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * But before that scene, when Sora and them mention Ansem (without pictures) in relation to Space Paranoids, Mickey immediately says "So that means you might be able to find out where he is!", indicating that he knows he's looking for the good Ansem. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:36, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well, he did know whose study and computer room those were. By that time, Mickey probably realized that AtW had to be around somewhere. Anyway, it's been most of a year since CoM, so there's no reason why his focus couldn't have shifted to the real Ansem. After all, what was he doing for all this time + most of KH2?

Side question, because it's been bugging me. I feel like Mickey should remember the events of BBS, since he was significantly involved, and I feel like it should have come up sometime during KH2, but for the life of me I can't figure out where. So does he remember now, or not until near the end of coded? --Neumannz 17:24, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

@KrytenKoro:Sora says Ansem The Wise that's why he mention the find where he thing @Neumannz:I think that he and others characters might have forget about the time in bbs lets say for example Donald and Goofy it doesn't look like that they remember about Yen Sid's Tower--Xabryn 19:47, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomura said that they do remember the tower, but that they are commenting on how it has a different layout now. Glorious  CHAOS!  00:20, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, let's play this game:
While investigating Ansem the Wise's study in Hollow Bastion, Sora, Donald, and Goofy came across a painting of an unknown man. They soon deduced, however, that this man was the original being of the Heartless known as "Ansem", whom Sora had defeated a year ago. After learning more about Ansem the Wise, Sora, Donald, and Goofy returned to Ansem's study, where they ran into King Mickey. The King indicated that the true Ansem was not the one they had known and that this being had been naught but an imposter. Upon their return, a picture of an unknown man appeared on Ansem's computer, whom Mickey identified as the true Ansem. Soon after the Battle of the 1000 Heartless, the trio encountered Xemnas, the imposter's Nobody and the superior of Organization XIII. Mickey was finally able to remember Xemnas's original being was Xehanort, an appentice of Ansem the Wise. He then proceeded to explain a meeting between himself and Ansem in which Xehanort was present. The name then progressed to be used by the King as a reference to Xemnas.


 * "came across" is in past tense, which is incorrect. This error is compounded throughout the section, so I'm not going to list every instance.
 * "They soon deduced, however," - the "however" is not appropriate, since the lines don't contradict, and the "soon deduced" is inaccurate - they see the portrait, and they say "oh, this must be Ansem's study".
 * "whom Sora had defeated a year ago" - "Ansem" is the subject here, not Sora, so "whom" is incorrect.
 * "After learning more about Ansem the Wise" - removing the line about Tron makes the "returned to Ansem's study" clause nonsensical.
 * "not the one they had known" - he's not dead or gone, at all, so "had known" is incorrect.
 * "that this being had been naught but an imposter" - are you serious? Also, you spelled impostor wrong.
 * "Upon their return" - again nonsensical, because you remove the bit about Tron.
 * "a picture of an unknown man appeared" - they do find it, albeit accidentally, and active voice is the preferred phrasing for synopses, not passive voice.
 * "Battle of the 1000 Heartless" is not an official term, and should not be propagated as if it were. "Army of 1000 Heartless" is the closest we got, and even then it's still only a dub guide term, not an in-universe term.
 * It is absolutely inappropriate to the article to re-explain who Xehanort is.
 * The meeting with Ansem, in which Xehanort showed up, should be covered above this point. The article is supposed to detail, chronologically, Xehanort's story, not Mickey's. Most of the stuff in the KHII section is only tenuously relevant to the article.
 * "The name then progressed to be used by the King as a reference to Xemnas." - Again, are you serious?

Glorious  CHAOS!  18:22, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, ENX, I am really tired of this. Your version of the section violates several of the writing policies, and is honestly, badly written and overwrought. Furthermore, you reverted again without addressing the concerns I highlighted here, which is not good wikiconduct. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:47, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, KH1 was not "Sora's last quest". Glorious  CHAOS!  04:49, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Xehanort is not "born".
"Master Xehanort's heart takes over Terra's body, and thus the new Xehanort is born." "Xehanort first appeared chronologically in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, born at the Keyblade Graveyard when Master Xehanort used his Keyblade to unlock his heart and possess Terra after the creation of the X-Blade."

The term "born" means to be brought into creation through the passing of life from a parent or parents to their offspring, when referring to a biological or "living" subject. Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep reveals that Xehanort was not a character that was "born" into the Kingdom Hearts universe, as we assume that characters such as Sora, Tarzan, Mulan, and Kairi are, but instead is the product of one character possessing another. Xehanort has no biological parents; no life was passed to him from a parent. This has been reverted several times when I attempt to change it to other verbs other than "born" that fit the subject much more appropriately than "born", and I am quite frankly tired of someone continuing to do so after having been told not to with a good explanation for no reason; this is bad wikiconduct. -- 23:02, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to disagree but is he born he isn't exacly like Master Xehanort or exacly like terra he is more like the two of them together, so if Xehanort have to have "parents" i would say that they are MX and Terra, and as ENX said the term "born" has more than one meaning--Xabryn 23:22, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even metaphors are inappropriate if they can be easily interpreted as false information. There is no reason not to use "created", "brought into existence", or some such. Glorious  CHAOS!  08:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)