Talk:Real Organization XIII

Isa
What proof do we have that this is Isa and not Saix? The fact that Lea calls him that is not all that conclusive, considering how Axel and Saix called each other by their original names in KHD. -- 19:14, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreement. We really need the Ultimania on this one. 19:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * But Lea calling him "Isa" IN THE GAME is the only evidence we have as to who he is, so I think it's only logical to put "Isa" on the list of names instead of "Saïx" with the fact tag until the Ultimania comes out. If we put "Saïx", we're speculating. He was directly called "Isa", so we should go by that instead of his appearance for the time being. At least that's what I think. EnglishJoker 20:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * We have his appearance and that Xigbar and Young Xehanort say that he and Xigbar are their original bodies with Xehanort's hearts, which is also what they were during the first Organization XIII. Their story basically denies that they are different beings than they were in the first Organization.
 * Basically, there's no reason to believe he's a different thing than when we last saw him in Days/KHII, and the way the plot puts it, he is made of the same stuff as he was before. There is nothing to indicate that Braig or Isa's hearts ever came back to them.192.249.47.177 21:01, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Going off of what the IP said, recall Ienzo tells Lea when a person's heart returns, he or she is reborn in the world he or she lost it. In the beginning of KH3D, Xehanort extracts Braig's heart in the Radiant Garden, thus Braig should have returned to Radiant Garden with the other apprentices and Lea. Isa was Lea's childhood friend and the two lived in Radiant Garden together, so it's plausible to believe he lost his heart in Radiant Garden, too (further evidence is Axel and Saïx's joining Organization XIII at the same time). But because Braig and Isa were not in the Radiant Garden when Lea and the apprentices were reborn, it can be assumed their hearts have not returned (thus they have not been reborn), and based on Ienzo's words and what I've stated above, it's not possible for either of them to have been reborn in another world, either. - 00:13, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No matter what form the characters have taken, the game's credits list them as Braig and Isa. While Braig did appear in his original human form in the opening flashback, Isa's sole appearance in the game is as part of the new Organization. I'd say that's pretty concrete proof that he's considered Isa. 131.128.130.106 07:34, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The reports in the game call him "Saix", so he's either like Braig/Xigbar or just still a Nobody 12:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, that IS a predicament. Do we take the end credit's word or the reports? maggosh 14:05, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The reports, because those are the ones that are actually intended to be canon. The credits are, c'mon, credits guys. Mr. anons and all such, the fact that the game explicitly says that they are functionally the same being is much more important than whatever name the guy in charge of the credits decided to use. 16:27, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

To the anons: The credits didn't list Isa/Saix at all. HE DIDN'T TALK AT ALL. -- 23:27, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Merging with Organization XIII
Because these two groups are Organization XIII, I think there should be only one page about it, and create it in a way that it covers both incarnations of the Organization. EnglishJoker 21:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

There was actually a discussion about it here. -- 21:36, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you can set up a draft that isn't a total mindjunk, go for it and we can have another discussion. 05:19, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Vanitas
Isnt it impiled that the Thirteen Xehanorts each have a piece of Vanitas' heart and The Princess' each have a piece of Ventus' heart, after all it does say that after the X-blades last destruction that the hearts with in it split into 13 and 7. --124.148.205.68 12:23, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If that happened, then Sora wouldn't be able to wield the Keyblade, and that all 13 would be able to wield a Keyblade as the same for the Princesses. 13:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "The last destruction" refers to the Keyblade War. maggosh 14:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Any evidence that it refers to the Keyblade war, also the 13 can wield keyblades and it is implied that the princess can, and why would Sora not get a keyblade?--203.206.0.249 08:27, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Also the fact that Vanitas appears beside and speaks the same words as Xehanort kind of implies it.

Vanitas does not actually appear. We don't know why his face appeared in that scene, yet, but he was not there. Anyway, the 13 and 7 do not necessarily have to be specific people; after all, the 7 in this confrontation will not be the princesses, and the 13 were intended to be the first organization, so there's no factor of "they received parts of someone's heart" besides what xehanort did, which was intentional. Plus the princesses were significant even before the χ-blade was forged by V&V. So there's no reason to think Van's heart is involved here. -- 11:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas does in fact appear, and the fact that they need hearts of pure darkness (with Vanitas' being the only one) supports that Vanitas' heart is the one being placed inside the Xehanorts, the fact that Vanitas overlays Young Xehanort back this up, though the Princess obviously do not have pieces of Ventus' heart, another piece of evidence is MF's x shaped attack, Dark Riku's bodysuit when possesed by Ansem and the fact that Vanitas appears to phase out of Master Xehanort in BBS, and also how Ansem mimics Vanitas face when Ventus-Vanitas was talking about the keyblade war.--58.7.111.194 12:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Some things:


 * 1) They do not need hearts of pure darkness, they need "thirteen darknesses". It would be really odd for them to need thirteen hearts and then rely on Nobodies.
 * 2) Vanitas does not have the only heart of pure darkness, he's just a purely dark heart that Xehanort used.
 * 3) Young Xehanort is explicitly Master Xehanort from his youth, not some mutated form. He's temporarily cast off his body so that he can time travel, but he has not stuck in Vanitas's heart or any other shenanigans.
 * 4) Riku and Young Xehanort strike the same pose when they offer their hand to Sora. That does not mean they are the same person.
 * 5) To my recollection, Vanitas phases out of Xehanort only in the special video, which is explicitly meant to be pretty animations that give only ideas for the next game, not canon. Recall that they also slayed some draconic beast and used Sora, Riku, and Mickey's Keyblades in that video.
 * 6) This talk page is not a forum. Unless you are notifying us of an explicit error that you can back up with direct evidence, you should not be posting on this page. Go to the forums, instead. 14:16, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Terra
Isnt it impiled that Terranort is one of the thirteen as Xehanort states that he has Terra under his control, also it seems Vanitas is a member.
 * I don't know where you're getting the idea of Vanitas - there's no proof of that. As for Terranort, it's definitely implied, but to officially name him a member would be speculation. 01:47, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. Besides, even then, Terranort would have to be the one in the Organization, Not Terra.

Based on the conversation between Master Xehanort and King Mickey, it seems that M.Xehanort himself confirms Terra as one of the twelve. When Mickey begins to consider the 7 Guardians of Light, he lists himself, Sora, Riku, and his "three missing friends" Terra, Aqua, and Ven. M.Xehanort then says two of that count were under his control. Obviously Sora is one of the two, as he was sitting right there, about to become #13. Mickey has a great resistance to Darkness (as is mentioned on his page on this wiki), and was obviously not among those seated, so he can be ruled out. It cannot be Riku, as Young Xehanort mentions he was meant to be the 13th, but his Heart grew too resistant so they moved on to Sora. It cannot be Ventus, as Xemnas was searching for him but could not find him in Castle Oblivion (and now, we can probably guess why he was searching). And it cannot be Aqua, as she was at this point on the beach with Ansem the Wise in the Realm of Darkness, lost to everyone's sight. It can't even secretly be Lea or Kairi, as Mickey didn't list them and M.Xehanort mentions that they are "three lights short," signifying he does not yet know that they have a 7th Keyblade. So Terra-Xehanort must be among the 13 Seekers. Lord Knight Xiron (talk) 19:21, 9 August 2012 (UTC)Lord Knight Xiron.
 * I would need to check the actual scene, but "under my control" doesn't necessarily mean or even imply "is another clone of me".
 * However, that does leave room for Kairi (and Yen Sid assumes that she has to be one of them), so it's possible. However, Terra was never going to be one of the lights, whether he's a good guy or not. 19:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * He might not have been meant to be one of the Lights in the end, but he was one of the six people Mickey mentioned and were referred to in the scene. Though I guess it is true that it doesn't make him necessarily one of the 13 simply for being "under his control," it also doesn't seem very likely that he wouldn't be. At least to me.  I can see what you mean though, and I'll leave it at that until we get Nomura's word on the matter. Lord Knight Xiron (talk) 19:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)Lord Knight Xiron
 * Very likely. However, until we can get full confirmation, we can't add him to the list. -- 19:30, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Vanitas as a member
— Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora? Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.

— What about Vanitas? Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

Nomura's interviews imply that Vanitas is a member.
 * No, they really really don't.192.249.47.177 13:34, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Nomura is simply saying Ven's heart has a presence within Sora, and is affecting how he sees things. 00:26, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Move to "True Organization XIII"
Young Xehanort refers to the reformed Organization as the true Organization XIII (真のXIII機関), as the other members assemble in the thrones. maggosh 19:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, in the NA version, Young Xehanort refers to them, in this same cutscene, as the real Organization XIII. In the World Map, after clearing the game, the story of TWTNW also refers to it as the real Organization XIII. I never heard true Organization XIII in the game. Shouldn't it be moved to "Real Organization XIII", even if we can't let the name as "real Organization XIII"? - 13:36, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Second Riku
In Prankster's Paradise, there is a moment where Riku meets a version of himself that has the Organization XIII coat. Could it be possible that this other Riku is a member of the True Organization XIII? --Littleman 20:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the Riku Replica, brought back to life. He is a member of the True Organization, according the the game.

Actually, that makes sense. At the time, Xehanort's Heartless had managed to hide inside of Riku when he arrived at Castle Oblivion. This gave him the essence of Xehanort. Thus, when Vexen copied Riku, he also copied Xehanort's essence along with him, thus making the seventh True Organization XIII member. However, this is just a theory, so take it as just that and nothing more. --Littleman (talk) 16:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

When does the game say that? Got a source?-- 23:23, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * This is what Riku says after finding out the guy who took Pinocchio away was himself/someone looking exactly like him: "That was... my dark side. I gave in to the darkness once. And ever since, it's chased me around in one form or another. The Seeker of Darkness who stole my body... a puppet replica of the shadows in my heart... and now, I'm facing me.". It doesn't confirm anything, and there is no profile for the guy, but since he is wearing an Organization coat and disappears into a corridor of darkness, it does seem like whoever he is, he's part of the new Organization XIII, and not just the world's dream of Riku from KH1. --Wind Prism (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Black coat = Organization member? Are you kidding? maggosh 01:24, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was a wrong assumption. --Wind Prism (talk) 01:29, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

For all we know, that could've been nothing more than an illusion created by Young Xehanort and/or Ansem. As soon as he shows up, he disappears without word, nor any real explanation to what that was really all about, and doesn't even appear again afterward. I wish they had actually explained it instead of just leaving us hanging like that. Blackchaos27 (talk) 08:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Tell me about it. This whole thing is bothering me quite a bit. --Littleman (talk) 15:47, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Rename
We should rename them the Thirteen Darkness, since that is what they are referred to, and we also need to make a page for the Seven Lights.--124.168.242.102

The article already mentions them being refer to the "thirteen seekers of darkness". And the seven lights refers to the seven Princesses of Heart-- 02:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually the 7 lights refer to the protectors of the 7 princess. --124.168.242.102 11:41, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, right. I forgot about that, but because we don't know who the protectors are, besides Riku and soon-to-be Kairi, we can't really create a page with such small information.-- 15:58, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually Mickey and Xehanort mention who the lights are, Mickey says that he, Sora, Riku, The Lost Three (probably Terra, Aqua and Ventus) and the Last One, but the Xehanort says that the Last One is on his side, the Last One is not Terra as Terra is mentioned as one of the Lost Three.--124.168.242.102 01:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Translations of that line seem to say different things. While some translations say that the last of the Seven Lights is on Xehanort's side, others say that the last of the Missing Three (Terra) is on his side. I think the latter translation makes more sense, because a) Terra is still possessed by Xehanort and is therefore still on his side; and b) the first translation implies that the last light, which Yen Sid says is Kairi, is on Xehanort's side- which she most certainly is not. Hopefully this will be cleared up in the English release. -- 01:34, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The last light cannot be Kairi as she is a princess and the lights are the protectors of the princesses, also by on his side, he meant that they were willingly on his side, Terra wasnt because Terra had his body but both Xehanort's heart and soul. Sora was because he still had his Body, Heart and Soul but Xehanort was infusining them with darkness.--124.168.242.102 01:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, now you're just tripping, anon. maggosh 01:48, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What As if and Maggosh-kun are trying to say in this: It'd be better if we wait until the English it out so we avoid confusions and all the such. There's no rush, the game is coming real soon, but there can be lot of mistakes when translating, so to avoid such things, it's better if we wait, like As if said.-- 01:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

On Master Xehanort's profile, you can read Now, he has revealed his ultimate goal: to create the real Organization XIII. Should that be considered the official English name for this article? --Wind Prism (talk) 16:39, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * What was our source for "True XIII Order" in Japanese, again? 16:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Maggosh-kun posted a topic above that above. He said, "Young Xehanort refers to the reformed Organization as the true Organization XIII (真のXIII機関 Shin no Jūsan Kikan?), as the other members assemble in the thrones."-- 18:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * In the English version of the game, the group is actually never referred to as the "True Organization XIII". It is, however, referred to several times as the "real Organization XIII". Notice how "real" is in lower case and is clearly not a proper adjective, leading me to believe that it's not its own entity and it's just a true reformation of the original Organization XIII to match its original purpose. Thus it should probably be merged with the Organization XIII article, or renamed to "Real Organization XIII". --Key
 * Note that a) this was translated from the Japanese version of the game, and b) an article cannot start with a lower case character. maggosh 19:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * He didn't say it should start with a lowercase letter, he simply said that "Real" isn't an actual part of the title. That being said, I'm against a re-merge, and all for just keeping the article as is. 20:29, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But seeing as real isn't an actual part of the title, and it's never referred to as the True Organization, we're left with the name Organization XIII. Seeing as that's the name, shouldn't it be merged with the other page? - JTD95 (talk) 20:48, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that if merged, we run the risk of sounding like that the two Organizations were one and the same, which is false - they are two distinct groups. Also, the merged article we had before was a mess, and getting a comprehensive cover of the plot concerning both groups - which intersect somewhat - would be a daunting task. 22:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd be for a re-merge, with a section perhaps titled "Second Organization XIII", "New Organization XIII", or "Real Organization XIII". I feel like that would remove the risk of thinking they're the same group. However, if that can't be done, at the very least we should change the title of this article to "Real Organization XIII". --Key
 * Dudes, just look at the layout for Organization XIII. That is not an article that could easily accept this info...though if you'd like to present a draft, that's fine. There's really no point to suggesting a merge if you haven't planned how it would actually be carried out. 06:49, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Barring the idea of a re-merge, how about simply changing the title of this article to "Real Organization XIII" to match the official title used in-game? Key

Other members
Since Vanitas appeared with Young Xehanort, is he a member? Also is the Riku replica a member, because he wears a black coat.--124.150.48.45 09:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas only appeared because Ventus's heart was reacting within Sora. Also black coat ≠ member. maggosh 11:50, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Riku and Mickey wore black coats before. But were they part of any Organization? No. ParadiseFusion15 7:07, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thats because Riku was pretending to be an Organization member. Also why was Vanitas there, is he inside Xehanort's heart in a similar way to Ventus and Sora?--124.150.38.28 12:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas only appeared because Ventus's heart was reacting within Sora. maggosh 13:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It'd be nice if anyone who is going to post on this discussion page would actually read it first - we have this question answered above already at least once. 17:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And also Lea wears the black coat although he's not an organization member at all. 18:40, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Order
I checked which thrones they where each sitting on and managed to get the all, this needs to be added to the page but I cannot add it in because its locked. --Vanitas (talk) 10:48, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I. Master Xehanort
 * II. Xemnas
 * III. Ansem
 * IV. Xigbar
 * V. Unknown
 * VI. Unknown
 * VII. Saïx
 * VIII. Unknown
 * IX. Unknown
 * X. Unknown
 * XI. Unknown
 * XII Young Xehanort
 * XIII. Sora
 * I agree. I think it's worth adding. Whoever's in charge of this locked page should add it. Except I think No. XIII should be labeled as either Sora (Failed), another Unknown, or [currently empty], since the attempt on Sora did fail and Xehanort may find someone else to fill the seat. Blackchaos27 (talk) 06:35, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Key words are "think" and "unknown". Has Nomura even verified whether they chose the seats on purpose, yet? 21:54, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We are supposed to add official info to all pages and this is official info.--Vanitas (talk) 13:29, 23 September 2012 (UTC):
 * Has Nomura even verified whether they chose the seats on purpose, yet? As in, how do we know they won't sit in different seats next time they show up? Yes, we add all official info, so long as it is informative. Keeping track of the exact chair a character sits on is not exactly informative unless it has some verified purpose. 16:01, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well we dont know whether or not they will sit on different chairs, but until then this should be treated as the confirmed order.
 * Except for 1) This info is quite arbitrary and serves little purpose, and 2) The chair they sit in does not necessarily translate to their exact ranking in the Organization. Frankly, it's too much of a stretch to claim that we know the rankings when all we've done is just count the chairs. Until Nomura confirms anything, we're not putting this on the page. 20:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Vanitas, that's like the opposite of sense. Us not knowing whether the chairs are permanent does NOT mean we should assume they are. Listen to LR. 04:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

13 seekers and 7 guardians
I was thinking. Since we got a page on the thirteen seekers of darkness, should we make a page for the seven guardians of light?

Let's see, it seems pretty clear that four of the seven are Sora, Riku, Mickey, and Kairi. It seems that the other three would be Terra, Ventus, and Aqua, however Xehanort claims that one of them belongs to him now(most likely Terra). If that is true then Lea would probably be the replacement. Blackchaos27 (talk) 00:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * While there are definitely likelihoods considering the seven guardians, there really isn't enough confirmed info to merit a page. Once they appear as a more official organization in future installments, we should have enough info to make a page. 01:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We know it's not Terra, Xehanort explicitly says that it is not. Mickey lists himself, Riku, Sora, and the three BBS, Xehanort rejects Terra and Sora, but they regain Sora anyway. Yen Sid then says that Lea and Kairi will be training for the Mark of Mastery as well, I'm not sure this is uncertain at all. 04:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Kryten. Sora, Riku and Mickey are all but confirmed. Kairi and Lea are in training, but will most likely be ready to join the fight in III. The only problematic spots are those of Aqua and Ven, who are stuck in realm of darkness and castle oblivion respectively. Unless someone takes one of the empty spots before Aqua and Ven are rescued, or one of the others are wounded or something like that, this Is pretty much going to be it. 11:43 26 June 2015

Image
If somebody could put up this image



on the page please, that'd be great, since I can't do it. KrytenKoro did a good job like I did for the Forms of Xehanort image :P EnglishJoker (talk) 14:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Eyes
All current members have yellowish-goldish-amber eyes. Saix and Xigbar are the only ones from the organization, save for Xemnas, to posses this trait, and the only confirmed now-members of the new organization, again except for Xemnas. When Xigbar says he's half Xehanort,the camera zooms to his amber eye. And he's an eye short, a.k.a. "half". I'm leaving this here for what it's worth, since it could imply that's that of the old XIII (Xehanort vessels had amber eyes, and no other member had amber eyes) and might hint to the others. It's probably a wild guess, but again, "for what it's worth".--92.118.175.99 17:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Unknown members
I am a wiki contrabuter and i think that Terra-Xehanort is a member because if you think about it True Organization XIII is made up of 13 Xehanorts and most of them are from the past. --94.174.164.212 18:33, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * While a reasonable prediction, we can't add T-X—or anyone, for that matter—to the list of members until we have confirmation. -- 23:06, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

It wood be very nice to see the other 7 Xehanorts. --94.174.164.212 13:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I would just say that, but of course, it isn't still confirmed. But if you pay attention, in Where Nothing Gathers, Mickey tells Xehanort that "for Keyblade Wielders, there are me, Riku, and Sora, and my three missing friends (Terra, Aqua and Ven) [...] and the seventh would be (Lea) [...]" and Xehanort replies "But Sora and another on your list belongs to me now. That puts you three guardians short." Now, consider that, as Xehanort didn't knew about Lea, he counted him as one, and with Sora and the "other", that makes three. Now, remembering RE:Coded, I think, Yen Sid says that the only one left to find is Terra. This means that the Seven Guardians of Light are Mickey, Sora, Riku, Ven, Aqua (who were already found), Lea and Kairi. There are already Seven Guardians, which means Terra is not one of them, and he is the only one on Mickey's list that can belong to the 13 seekers of darkness, aside Sora, who was rescued. So, we can assume Terra-Xehanort is one of them, but nothing can be really confirmed yet. - 13:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * "Belongs to me" doesn't necessarily mean that he's one of the Organization. It just means he's in Xehanort's power. 11:57, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I doubt when Mickey listing the seven guardian he refer Lea, because he don't know Lea can use the Keyblade, I think Mickey refer another wielder of his past, but we don't see him in any game, maybe MX refer this one is belong to MX, the mine is only a theory, but I don't know who is the seventh of mIckey list (because Kairi is impossibile for the Mickey's reaction in the secret ending and Lea too cannot be because he don't know about he can use the Keyblade)--93.150.134.217 20:32, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

So Saix and Xigbar are confirmed, is it reasonable to assume Isa and Braig, will be too? Xehanort, Ansem, and Xemnas are all members, so do you think Xehanort found a way to get their Nobody vessels along with their newly revived forms?

Please sign you posts. As for your question, who knows? We don't post speculation in the articles, just so you know. All we can do is wait until new information is released.-- 21:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Nobodies or Somebodies
Since the purpose of the Original Organization XIII was to help create and find suitable People to be transformed into heartless and into nobodies, in order to use the nobodies, and to fill them with fragments of Master Xehanort's heart, while their original hearts which are enveloped in darkness, so that when the hearts remerge with their bodies, the hearts of those people will be taken over by the heart fragments of Master Xehanort, thus turning them in to Xehanort(s) or Xehanort clones. So logically, all the members of the true Organization XIII are no longer nobodies but have become somebodies again, only just not their true selves. This means that all the nobodies (excluding Xemnes as his heartless Ansem and himself have clearly not remerged together) like Braig now Xigbar and Isa now Saix, are true somebodies.


 * Sign your posts, please.-- 19:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, why would you expect them to be complete beings without having to regain their lost hearts? -- 19:34, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Ansem and Xemnas have remerged, that's why Master Xehanort is back. The ones in KH3D are actually time-displaced. Which begs the question of whether Xigbar and Sa�x will be part of the new Organization as time-displaced Nobodies along with their original selves. I think they did get their lost hearts, and then gave them up like Braig in Birth by Sleep. 20:41, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

This again? lol. That said, there is a line from the Ultimania (p. 429, bottom right) one should take into account:

'Xigbar and Saïx appeared as members of Organization XIII. Did they return as humans like Lea and the others?'

''The conditions of becoming a human have been met, so you’d think they had returned, wouldn’t you? For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans and before Lea and the others woke up. You could say the same for the members of Organization XIII that didn’t appear in this title, however… I’d rather everyone use their imaginations.''

The implication is that the Xigbar and Saix we see in this game are their recompleted selves, but the last line still leaves it up to interpretation for now (probably Nomura being deliberately ambiguous in case he wants to change something). Ultima Spark  (talk)   00:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * By the very clear explanation of how both Organizations worked, they have the same components they did as the last time they were called Nobodies. This isn't that confusing. 04:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * ...what are you trying to say, exactly? The Ultimania hints at the possibility that those two at least have returned as complete beings ("For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans..."). It's not a confirmation, but I feel it warrants a mention somewhere. Ultima Spark   (talk)  Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png 07:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

About Renaming This Article
Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but I was wondering why it was never decided (or if it was) what we would call this article? In a previous discussion, someone said we should rename it "Real Organization XIII" because that's the title used in the game. I, for one, am in full agreement. Thoughts? - 02:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm good with changing it.-- 03:32, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, a lot of time has passed now, so I think a final call is in order: Should the page be renamed?-- 18:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm starting to think nobody is even noticing this topic here, which could be why no one is putting in any input. Anyways if you want my opinion, I think it should remain as it is, cause, really what does it matter. True, Real, It's all the same. And in my opinion, 'True' just sounds better to me. Unfortunately, most people can't remove rename request themselves because the article is locked to prevent edit wars for fan speculation. Personally, I'm surprised the admins haven't removed the request already. Blackchaos27 (talk) 00:00, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Real" is the name used in the NA localization, with "True XIII Order" as the literal translation. 01:36, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * And the wiki does use all NA localization for its article. Before, I had the similar mindset as Blackchoas27, but we gotta stick the NA localization like we with everything else. So, it's decided? We change the article? No objections?-- 03:48, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * None here, it's more official anyway. 03:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It sounds weirder, but that's not a real reason not to. -- 04:28, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You guys have a fair point, so no objections here. Blackchaos27 (talk) 14:49, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Neumz-senpai about it sounding weird, but that shouldn't be reason why we shouldn't change it. All right, then. Let's rename it. :)-- 20:34, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Time-displaced Xigbar, Saix
— Did King Mickey’s time magic not work properly on Young Xehanort because Young Xehanort has the power to control time?

Nomura: Not Young Xehanort’s but rather Master Xehanort’s power. King Mickey was surprised at the time, seeing his Keyblade and noticing he harboured the power of Master Xehanort. That Keyblade was designed as the one Master Xehanort used in KHBBS combined with an hourglass, you see.

— Were the 13 Seekers of Darkness, who were meant to be in different times, gathered by transcending time with magic?

Nomura: Just as it says in the story, to transcend time one must ‘first’ discard their form. As a result of the actions of the Brown Robed Figure, they all were in a state where they had gained the power to transcend time. The Brown Robed Figure explains the facts. The thirteen were summoned at the same time, this time thanks to Young Xehanort who borrowed that power. However, apart from Young Xehanort, that does not mean that all the members transcended time.

Read more: http://kh13.com/forum/topic/34430-spoilers-kingdom-hearts-3d-ultimania-nomura-interviews-completely-translated/#ixzz4XGlXmBPJ


 * Hold up. The game pretty strongly gave the impression that Xigbar and Saix were their revived selves, as they were Nobodyfied in Ansem's computer room but were nowhere to be found afterwards.  As to why they're using their Nobody names, I guess it's an Organization thing?  --Ignis (talk) 23:08, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Right, Young Xehanort took them and turned them back into Nobodies. The whole point was making them vessels for Xehanort's heart, just like they were in the first Organization. 14:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Recent Famitsu confirms that the returning Organization members are not time travelling. They've been resurrected and the turned into Nobodies and norted. The only known time travellers are Xemnas, Ansem SoD, and Young Xehanort Konu (talk) 23:48, 7 July 2018 (UTC)


 * To say the truth, a bit after the release of DDD, Nomura confirmed that Ansem and Xemnas are not time traveler, he confirmed this in both an interview and an official "Xehanort timeline", this is quite strange I know, I too was surprised but this is confirmed.--186.237.35.234 10:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing that in the Xehanort Experience Record -- the closest I'm seeing is that it doesn't explicitly say they were brought from the past. Plus, the core plot is that their destruction has revived Master Xehanort, so it wouldn't make much sense if YX had rebroken MX like he did with Braig, Isa, Laurium, Larxene's person, and Luxord's. 12:33, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Terra confirmed
Nomura confirmed Terra is a member of the Org. XIII. https://www.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-3/frequently-asked-questions

According to Mickey Mouse, the Guardians of Light are himself, Riku, Sora, Aqua, and Ventus. Mickey assumed Terra was a light, however Master Xehanort revealed that Terra is one of the Thirteen Darknesses. The sixth and seventh members are currently unknown.
 * KHInsider's FAQ isn't an official source. If you could link us to the actual interview (or even a translation of said interview) where Tetsuya Nomura makes this distinction, then we would be able to change it. From the looks of this, though, this page is only KHInsider's interpretation of events as revealed so far. 16:12, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

List

 * Confirmed
 * 1) Master Xehanort
 * 2) Young Xehanort
 * 3) Ansem
 * 4) Xemnas
 * 5) Xigbar
 * 6) Saix
 * 7) Aqua (Famitsu article: "Clad in darkness, Aqua pierces The King and Riku with golden eyes, evidence of influence by Master Xehanort. She calls out The King's name with a coldhearted voice, and no trace of her former self can be felt.")
 * 8) Marluxia (via official Japanese website)


 * Implied by KH3 trailers but not citable yet (remember this guys! Trailers are not sources for anything but themselves!)
 * 1) Vanitas
 * 2) Larxene
 * 3) Luxord
 * 4) Vexen (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
 * 5) Demyx (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
 * 6) Riku Replica or Ansem-Riku or Data-Riku (TGS 2018 trailer and chess piece #7 -- combined heartless/nobody symbol) (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
 * 7) Terra-Xehanort (both in trailer and Ends of the Earth chesspiece (also on Eraqus's board))
 * 8) Ansem the Wise (shows up with norted Demyx and wears the real Organization XIII insignia zipper on his 0.2 model, not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort)
 * 9) Roxas or Data-Roxas (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, could fill Sora's spot)


 * Implied by KH3D
 * 1) Robed Figure
 * 2) Sora (if Roxas doesn't count)


 * Possible
 * 1) No Heart

Larxene and Aqua confirmed in Frozen Trailer.


 * See Kryten's comment on trailers above. Need actual confirmation- an interview, reputable article, etc. 17:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed, especially with Aqua where more details are needed. For now it is speculation what her alliange is. -Adv193 (talk) 17:14, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I mean...in KH3D Xehanort said "and one of those on your list". As of now, I'm voting for Riku Replica, Luxord, and Terra-Xehanort as the last three. I lost my first bet tho with that Aqua dodge. 18:36, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Luxord appeared with yellow eyes in the most recent trailer, so that's a thing that's happening, it looks like. I think it's only a matter of time until we see Demyx- he's the only original Org XIII member unaccounted for.
 * Just two left. 13:44, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

It looks like Aqua is a Seeker, potentially, according to Famitsu.:

https://twitter.com/HMKilla/status/1009892534720651266

That quote was from the this page, on the small yellow box.:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPT0MjW0AUGrxb.jpg
 * Nomura strikes again. Though I wonder for Aqua's situation if it is truly "confirmed Seeker" or "was in the Realm of Darkness a little too long and this is a quick/dramatic 'bad person' bluff?" And it's only June... 00:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yellow eyes canonically represent possession by Xehanort in some form. It's definitely not a "the Realm of Darkness made her evil" kinda thing. Konu (talk) 06:50, 3 July 2018 (UTC)


 * For the list posted here. Robed Figure and Ansem are the same guy, Riku Replica from the last trailer seems to not be part of the Organization, and I doubt MX was refering to Aqua, since in the trailer look like Aqua was "Xehanortized" really recently, she don't even have the black robes, so I think she is the 13th member. This will explain why Ansem and Xemnas are trying to help Sora to rehave Roxas. Without Aqua, now is missing a Guardian of Light.--186.237.35.234 10:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Marluxia is confirmed to be a member of this new O13. The official Japanese website uses a pic of Marluxia for the "Real Organization XIII" box. Lady Junky (talk) 20:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Re Xion, we don't see enough of the character to make any statements about who it might be. It could be Xion, or Aqua, or Axel, or anyone. Anyone with hair even remotely like that could be the character. Unlike the others, we don't have enough to go on. Konu (talk) 23:56, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * We see enough to know it's not Aqua or Axel, as their hair isn't that length. You can even compare it to Aqua's hair later in the video. It also wouldn't make sense, with Aqua already being fully revealed at the end of the trailer. Plus, there's the chesspiece that has what looks like the Kingdom Key as its icon, and there needs to be one of Sora's branches being a Xehanort to make KH3D make any sense. 13:09, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Xion's hair is much too short to be that character though, and what Kingdom Key chess piece is there? I haven't seen that. There's also the fact that the figure's hair is a 1:1 match to 0.2 KH1 Riku's hair so it's pretty safe to say it's not Xion now. https://twitter.com/KH_Quote/status/1040221134963134465 Konu (talk) 20:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Excuse me, but what is Demyx on the implied by trailers section? Where did you see a 'sitar' chess piece, and what did it look like? 65.96.79.246 14:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * https://imgur.com/4kQcE03 Number 7.
 * In all, I see:


 * 1) Goat emblem from No Name (Master Xehanort)
 * 2) Sun-in-splendor-with-crescent-moon (Saix)
 * 3) Spiky thing, possibly the Absolute (Xemnas?)
 * 4) Dice (Luxord)
 * 5) Ansem's guardian's head (Ansem)
 * 6) Void Gear token (Vanitas)
 * 7) Arpeggio (Demyx)
 * 8) poss. a flower, or a simplified form of Xemnas's sigil (Marluxia? Xemnas?)
 * 9) poss. Stormfall token (Aqua?)
 * 10) Sharpshooters from above (Xigbar) or Foudre (Larxene)
 * 11) No Name (BbS) token (Young Xehanort)
 * 12) Foudre (Larxene) or Sharpshooter magazines (Xigbar)
 * 13) Kingdom Key hilt (Xion)
 * For guardians:


 * 1) Oblivion token (Sora)
 * 2) Way to the Dawn token (Riku)
 * 3) Ends of the Earth token (Terra)
 * 4) Kingdom Key D token (Mickey)
 * 5) Destiny's Embrace token (Kairi)
 * 6) Frolic Flame token (Lea)
 * 7) Wayward Wind token (Ventus)
 * 20:24, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If you ask me, that number 7 Seeker piece does not look like Demyx's sitar. It looks more like a thorny vine to me. But that's just me. Personally I always thought that Demyx would be the most unlikely candidate for the new Organization. Blackchaos27 (talk) 21:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I thought he was tied with Marluxia, Larxene, and Xion, but here we are. 17:46, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Someone may have 'solved' the potential identity of the new Seeker of Darkness.:

https://twitter.com/KH_Quote/status/1040221134963134465  65.96.79.246 19:28, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, yeah. Looking at #7 some more, it doesn't look as much like the Nocturne as I thought. It does look like it might be the Heartless emblem with Nobody spikes on the top -- fitting Riku Replica's nature as a Replica (Nobody variant) with the Heartless emblem on his chest. 12:13, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Well what the fuck. Now Xehanort has the Terra piece too? Plus we get a better look at (13) that looked like a Kingdom Key previously. I can't place it to anything - the closest I can see is maybe the teeth of the Two Become One? I was hoping that a form of Sora could take his seat, but seeing as we now have multiple pieces of the same characters taking the same seats (both Terra-Xehanort and Ansem and Xemnas) and about 19 implied members, anything's possible. 12:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kryten Some people, like Skywardwing, were speculating that Demyx and Vexen might be undercover, inflirtraiting the Seekers of Darkness, with supposedly 'colored eye-contacts' 'made' by Vexen, but this of course is speculation as we all know, but Xehanort could be looking for back-ups, but I'm not sure why they have yellow eyes, since the roster of the new organization seemed to be close to thirteen, and those two just seem to push it beyond that. 65.96.79.246 23:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm starting to wonder if Terra and Aqua, though possessed by Xehanort, may not OFFICIALLY be part of the 13 Seekers. They both have not been shown wearing the Organization Coat after all. Granted that could change, but still. Blackchaos27 (talk) 07:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll admit after yesterday's video I am even more questioning on who the whole 13 are. I believe that unless if there is confirmation or until the release date, no other names should be listed as an invisible note to avoid any potential speculation. -Adv193 (talk) 14:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Dark Riku from KH1 confirmed as a Xehanort at the TGS 2018 Stream

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371704463146221568/492909152511983627/b6fd0660a3daad2dcf471e1e28d9caa8.png

^ What does the text on the images of the Xehanort in that screenshot translate into? I'm just wondering. 65.96.79.246 14:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC)


 * VIP thoughts - Kingdom Hearts series director Tetsuya Nomura: "The Dark Seeker Saga finally concludes."  Ultima Spark   (talk)  Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png 18:01, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Since no one mentioned about this here, I'll just provide the insight. In the TGS 2018 trailers, if you pause and look closely at the block-thingies in San Fransokyo (in both cutscenes and gameplay), you'll see that they look exactly like Bug Blox and they are bugs in the Datascape which is the simulated Jiminy's Journal. Assuming that each world has its corresponding member from the real Organization XIII (Olympus→Xigbar; Kingdom of Coronoa→Marluxia; Toy Box→Young Xehanort; Monstropolis→Vanitas; Arendelle→Larxene; The Caribbean→Luxord), the "Riku" in black coat from San Fransokyo is implied to be Data-Riku as he's the vessel of the Journal's memories in the Datascape. Of course, this is not really a confirmation since this is concluded based on an assumption. LightKeyDarkBlade (talk) 13:43, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm slightly leery of that image being used as actual confirmation, because it has two versions of the same character, just with or without memories, and the list of indicated norts is already at around 21. Plus, that looks like they're using the scans from this wiki (specifically apprentice xehanort and dark riku). But then again...we are already straining at 21, so fuck it, anything goes. 13:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The reason it probably looks similar to the scans is because they're the source renders those scans used. I didn't exactly get a hi-res screenshot either.Konu (talk) 21:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm thinking as well about the double Terra-Xehanort. Looks to me that it's more like "this is the conclusion of the Dark Seeker Saga" so it would make sense to put pure Xehanorts there to represent it. Not eliminating the possibility that it's a confirmation though and I've already provided another insight on the "Riku". As for the renders, we actually have almost of them in this wiki except for Ansem, where we only have a low-res of it together with his guardian. LightKeyDarkBlade (talk) 13:53, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Xigbar is already confirmed, but I've figured out which Chess piece is his.

One chess piece[1] looks like Braig's crossbow[2]

This mysterious black goat head that doesn't represent Master Xehanort[3] also looks like Maleficent's official character emblem[4] 1. https://gyazo.com/23eb8ee15e83c4282bd45ff63178eb8b.png 2. https://i.gyazo.com/30aeb082c06ee07b5a80a82e7cb46fd4.png 3. https://i.gyazo.com/d9770f7f4f3aa7fe8d0672f731e79852.png 4. https://www.khwiki.com/images/e/e2/Symbol_Character_-_Maleficent.png

Konu (talk) 21:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I mean more the off-color aspects, make it look like they're from scans, not renders.

Okay, so:


 * 1) Goat emblem from No Name (Master Xehanort)
 * 2) Sun-in-splendor-with-crescent-moon (Isa/Saix)
 * 3) Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
 * 4) Dice (Luxord)
 * 5) Ansem's guardian's head (Ansem)
 * 6) Void Gear token (Vanitas)
 * 7) Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
 * 8) hexagram?
 * 9) Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
 * 10) Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
 * 11) No Name (BbS) token (Young Xehanort)
 * 12) Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
 * 13) Crossbow (Braig/Xigbar)
 * 14) Ends of the Earth token (Terra-Xehanort)
 * 15) There's also a piece seen in the back row during the 2015 trailer that looks like two upward-pointing spikes, with the one closer to the camera noticeably larger


 * Aqua? I feel like she has to be 8 or 9. 14:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * If we're talking about the pieces from this image: https://imgur.com/4kQcE03


 * Xehanort's No Name
 * The Moon could possibly represent Aqua, as she's weilding the hybrid Star Seeker/KKD which features a very similar symbol on it.
 * Looks like Maleficent's Emblem more than a Nobody symbol.
 * Luxord's Dice
 * Ansem's Guardian
 * Vanitas's Void Gear
 * This one could be the top half of Demyx's Sitar.
 * This one is sort of flower shaped. Maybe Marluxia?
 * This one looks like the bottom piece of Saix's Claymore and even has the same number of spikes.
 * Xemnas's ethereal blades. It doesn't look exactly like them, but its placement in the TGS 2018 trailer makes it obvious.
 * Young Xehanort's No Name
 * Probably Larxene's Foudre. She holds four at a time
 * Braig's Crossbow
 * Terra's EotE
 * Could you post an image of this piece? The description sounds like piece 10.

Konu (talk) 21:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * It's the fourth from the left in the top image. The one you're identifying as Maleficent is ninth from the left in that image, and very clearly has the Nobody aesthetic. It's also frustrating that the pieces move around every time the camera's not on them, so it's very difficult to confirm that different looking images are the same piece from different angles. The Keyblade you're talking about for Aqua is Mickey's Keyblade, he's holding it in the box art. 17:42, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The thing I don't life about 3,7,8,9,10,12 is how, if your matches are correct, they're excessively more abstract than the other pieces, which are pretty detailed and identifiable -- and those characters (including Braig) are ones that were revealed as vessels quite early on. Luxord's piece doesn't make sense as being more obvious than Xigbar's. Honestly, I just dislike the whole thing. 17:51, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That piece you point out is actually the Xemnas piece. The one in the front of the chessboard back then is identical to it, but it's most likely that they've changed the designs over time. It is Mickey's keyblade, but Aqua wields it in her fight against Sora, which implies she takes it from Mickey in that scene at the start of the game. Also I wouldn't really call them excessively more abstract (for 7/9/10/12) than the other pieces. It's not much different than representing Keyblade wielders by their Keychains. They're just pieces of the weapons. 3 and 8 I'm really not sure about just because there's no real match to them, so I can agree here. And I disagree that Luxord's piece is more obvious than Xigbar's. Xigbar's piece is identical to his crossbow, while the piece we say is Luxord's is just two blocks people assume is dice. For all we know, it could actually be bug blocks and represent the Riku in Big Hero 6.Konu (talk) 23:14, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, the piece I'm pointing out appears in the same scenes as 2(!) of the piece you're calling the Xemnas piece, and is clearly different from it.
 * Another thing to note: "However--through weakness of body...weakness of will...or weakness of trust--most of the original members we had chosen for the Organization were inadequate. Thus, naturally, they never had a chance to attain their goal. Yet, even this was to be expected."
 * With Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene almost explicitly confirmed, none of Demyx, Vexen, or Roxas can be a member and have that still be true. 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Could you grab an image of the piece? Becausse I have no idea what piece you're talking about then. The way you describe it sounds exactly like Xemnas's piece (which had two on the board in the original trailer).


 * This could easily have been referring to why the original Organization failed and not saying that no original org members would be rejoining. Xemnas specifically refers to the goal of the original Organization (making Kingdom Hearts) as having been unattained, because the original members were inadequate for that goal.


 * Not sure how this is related to what I said? I don't personally think Vexen or Demyx will be part of the final lineup of 13 Darknesses. I do think Xehanort is norting more than his allotment of 13 so he has spares in case any of his chosen 13 fall before the time comes. Also Roxas was seen as a highly valued potential vessel, so he could easily join the final lineup.


 * In the end this is all speculation, and we can't truly know who fits what piece until the game comes out or they're explicitly confirmed as representing it. Konu (talk) 21:43, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
 * https://imgur.com/a/8lh4qwX
 * Looking closely at that, it looks like Braig's crossbow, but upsidedown to me. Konu (talk) 04:33, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If it is, then it's distinct from the piece elsewhere identified as Braig's crossbow. You can see both of them in the first image. 14:16, 28 September 2018 (UTC)