Talk:Vanitas

He is the Xheanort we know
Look at it this way, "Xheanort" has a habit of stealing his master's names, his "Heartless" armor is also passed down from Xheanort's heartless to Riku, his new apprentice, he even took his master's clothes when he turned into a heartless, also, it is never stated that his name is "Xheanort" It's just the only name he remembers, this makes sense to me, seeing as how Master Xheanort would have been a very powerful figure in his memory.

I was the one who made that theory NO JOKE visit my | home page all that u need to know about that theory is there

Death Messenger - Makes sense. Perhaps Vanitas stole Terra's body, that's why Xehanort is so much like Terra.

Also, it all fits. His name means Vanity or Nothingness. It matches Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas perfectly!

Trailer Info
Some of the Birth by Sleep Trailers Have been leaked. in one Master Xehanort Says "Those who Submit to darkness are not qualified to Wield the keyblade. already that man" Cuts to apprentice as he says this "has become a monster consumed by Darkness. use your power to defeat the darkness and correct my mistake." these trailers are on youtube. you might have to dig around a bit but it's there. should be mentioned in a article edit for link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoA5DL_oM0&feature=related

i wonder why xehanort actually says that when in the final mix secret ending he seems to be fighting together with his apprentice and not against him --Darksoldier 12:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

maybe he changed his mind or that scene happens before this one

Heartless Possibility
Has anyone considered the possibilty that the aprentice isn't an aprentice at all, but is in fact Master Xhanort's heartless? After all, in the birth by sleep video they seemed to spit from one being, with one (Master Xehanort) keeping the phisical shape of the original the way that a powerful Nobody does, and the other (the apprentice) becoming more heartless like. Another thing is that the "Apprentice" finished Master Xeanort's sentence in one of the trailers. This did not seem to suprise Master Xehanort or Ven, as if the apprentice should know what his master is about to say. --Hulon2 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

He would be able to use a Keyblade because, as it says in the article on Keyblades, they are connected to your soul, not your heart. So a Nobody can use a Keyblade because they still have souls. For example, both Roxas and Xion use Keyblades, even though they are Nobodies. As for looking as if he has a heart, who can tell. Axel seemed very heartful to me, but he's a Nobody.--Hulon2 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, Roxas was able to weild a Keyblade, two in fact, and he didn't have a heart, so maybe it's the same case with this guy. Keyblader 22:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, MX fought like he had a plan, but the "Apprentice" just leapt out and started bashing away. Later, he noticed the tornado of blades and leapt on to it without stopping at all to think.--Hulon2 13:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess we'll know when the game comes out. After all it could be something that none of us have even thought of. After all, if people could figure out they big secret from just watching the trailers, the game wouldn't sell well. They want people to wonder so they make the trailers purposefully vague. Seriously, who could guess that Roxas was Sora's Nobody using only the Another Side Another Story video?--Hulon2 14:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I think MX apprentice is really the xehanort that we know --KHF 19:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh, it really could go either way, couldn't it? I personally doubt that the Apprentice is a Heartless, but you never do know. After all, he uses a keyblade - wethether the blade's attatched to the soul or the heart, it doesn't matter, because then they couldn't both use a keyblade. Then agian, it might have something to do with those chains...or rather, lack therof. No, wait, The Apprentice and MX both have chains. Okay, I'm lost. But, since Roxas did use a keyblade, despite being a Nobody, I don't think it's fair to just shoot down his theroy. The only problem is whether or not a heartless can use a keyblade, which is, obviously, unlikey. But then agian... Yeah, I don't know. Keyblade Mage 13:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

Speculation
like what?--KHF 19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

i agree with that. there should be a theorys secttion, and some of it does sound like nonsense so you should add a section nammed that too! :D. but im not in charga that so.....



I agree with NeutraVega. A theories section would defeat the purpose of the wiki being for facts. We will add information as it is given to us by the game designers, not add our ideas of what the designers might say. LapisScarab 20:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)



I don't think it's necessary to go that far, Neutra. There's no harm in speculating, in my opinion, so long as it stays off the actual articles. I'm pretty sure Tetsuya Nomura has said that he leaves mysteries in the series to make us use our imaginations and speculate. It's just that wikias aren't the place for it. LapisScarab 02:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to bring something up; Vanitas and the other characters from Birth By Sleep are from a game that has yet to be released, meaning that a lot of these questions will be answered during the course of the game. There is no reason to speculate on the articles until the game has been released and some questions answered. Basically, a speculation section in any article about a game that has yet to be released is pointless, as the release of the game will likely render the contents of the section moot. LapisScarab 03:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...NeutraVega, please don't engage in denial. We put up an article based on the best information we had, backed up by multiple sites, and you raised a shit-fulled temper tantrum. Certain editors over-reacted to your calls that we report nothing at all, but the blame for the spectacle rests squarely on your shoulders.
 * Here's a hint - information translated by those of our editors who are fluent in Japanese is only unofficial, not "groundless specualtion". Glorious  CHAOS!  09:59, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

We're going the best we can. And besides, half of that speculation is made by anonymous viewers or other users who are still new here. They don't know better. Just lay off.-- Ninja Sheik  17:43, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ...You complained about the name (and that only, looking at the page). Which was translated straight from the katakana, and was checked against multiple Japanese news sites.
 * Besides his name, nothing on this version of the page was unconfirmed. And that's the version of the page that we had while you were whining. And with respect to the final confirmed name, your tantrum amounted to saying we should delete all information and pictures we had just because the name ended up having a "u" shifted over one place. Wow, what a huge difference. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:29, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Small note: If you weren't so massively in denial you would notice that I was not "dead set that I was right", and even posted a possible alternate name based on what the Japanese sites were saying. I was, however, dead set on not deleting an entire article on a character just because his name might have a "u" shifted.

But! Oh my goodness, you've just shown me the light. Of course we should delete an entire page worth of information because the initial translation was not as intended, even if was sensible. In fact, we should delete every single piece of information that hasn't been translated by it's original creators. Hell, how do we even know that the Final Mix games even exist? They haven't been released in English, so their existence must be ridiculous speculation.

Thank you so, so much, for making our fallacy clear. That's the wrap everyone! NeutraVega's explained why we should deny the existence of the Final Mix material! Glorious  CHAOS!  07:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well said !  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Too much QQing going on... does it really matter if we speculate or not? -- Black Judgment of Guyviroth 13:42, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to self: Never make Kryten mad.... Well, there needs to be a medium with our speculation. Too much speculation is bad for the article but having some isn't terrible. - Heart Of Oblivion 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ha, if you ask me, every released bit of information is bound to have speculation in its early stages. I know quite a bit of PR and journalism theory to actually say this. There's no stopping the people from speculation. But that doesn't mean that we have to be flamed for it. Which reminds me, there's another user who found that the speculation was wrong (his guess was right), but took it very gracefully.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 13:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think ther is. just as long as u tell that its speculation...by putting it in a speculation section *cough cough* -mr.XeroXero
 * EXACTLY, but if we do put in one, we have to limit the number of speculation bits just like we did for Xion, Ven, Terra and Aqua.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 14:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes!! even if its limited i dont mind. i rly do like to read what other ppl think n stuff.

I suppose that could work so long was we regulate the speculation, but I think we should wait until after Birth By Sleep comes out. That way, more questions can be answered and the speculation section can be for the unanswered questions. It'll be more organized. LapisScarab 02:17, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly.  TNÉ  je t'♥ mélancolie ! 02:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... i agree. itd also keep the Speculation down i guess since more questions WILL be answered. that way it wont tic anyone off if they thunk thers "too much". -mr.xeroxero

Theroy
Is it possible that Master Xehanorts Apprentice is Xigbar because of how he talked about seeing them before and how he saw xion as ven?

Well their bodies don't match and since a nobody is supposed to look their former selfs with only minor changes it doesn't seem likely.--74.210.24.180 22:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that the apprentice is Xehanort, as in Ansem the seeker of darkness, or Xemnas, that Xehanort. Well, my famous friend from Camp thinks that. Anyway, I agree and well remember how Xehanort had lost all his memories when Ansem found him? We think he took the name Xehanort, like when he went to the dark he called himself Ansem. Also, he's been an apprentice before, and in the Manga, Maleficent screams at Riku "YOU!" and she doesn't mean Riku. She had caused problems for Master Xehanort and his apprentice in Birth by Sleep, and she might be reconizing him. (or however you spell it...)--I&lt;3&#39;slarxel 13:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

And that Ansem the seeker of darkness somehow remained human form after becoming a Heartless. Hmm Interesting...--I&lt;3&#39;slarxel 14:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think that he is related to Spider-Man. I mean, look at his costume! And since Disney bought Marvel, it's entirely possible. JesseRoo

Please, that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

That guy was in development LONG before Disney bought Marvel.

Here's something that you might be interested in. JesseRoo

Although the thoeries sound itneresting i suggest we remove them from the articleAqua00000 20:45, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

The Apprentice hath Spoken!
New BbS trailer at TGS09 revealed the Apprentice's voice to be masculine. Still no voice actor though. Let's get on that. -Ktnxbai!

A name!!!!
{{Morghman| Vanitas, that kinda sounds girly, but I suppose it has some sort of meaning in Japanese or Latin or whatever. But come on... he's got the whole body builder suit, he's the DARK apprentice, his keyblade is off the chain, and his name... is Vanitas. Ah well, is there a picture of him without his mask?

{{NitrousX|text=Not that I've seen. But maybe someday, keep your fingers crossed.}}

Who said his name was Vanitas!?

 * His name was revealed to be Apprentice Vanitas in this month's VJump. User:JudgmentDay95
 * Uh, don't spaz, thanks.—Urutapu 22:04, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Voice Actor
hey, judgementday, i'm not saying you're wrong, (i've definitely heard the voice before, though i'm bad at placing it...) just show us where you found out it was Miyu Irino, and it'll be settled, but unless there is a verified and checkable source, you can't leave his name on the page --Neumannz 21:06, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

ah, the voice of riku? that i think i can hear now... still, is the VA officially Mamoru Miyano? --Neumannz 21:55, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like Miyano, sure, but we're not putting anything up until it's announced.  —Urutapu 22:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * and that's just fine with me --Neumannz 22:09, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

OK, I apologize. However, the reason why I kept undoing many of the changes was because when I got on, I noticed that someone had listed Miyu Irino as the VA. I assumed that was official, and so I decided to make sure that this page kept it that way.

Well, I guess this is what I get for assuming. Again, I'm sorry. User:JudgmentDay95
 * It's nothing personally against you, I was just pretty annoyed that by the time I had gotten to the page like four people had already posted Irino/Miyano.—Urutapu 23:51, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

70
Seventy edits in one day. Absolutely ridiculous. -- Door To  Nothing Kupo! 04:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Removed from page
"Secret video" synopses are not canon, and should be restricted to a mention in trivia or lead that "so and so appeared in this secret video". Right now, a few minutes of video barely featuring Vanitas takes up 80% of this article, which is weak.

This info should be integrated with the main BBS video page. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It should also be written competently before being reinserted into article space. Glorious  CHAOS!  05:49, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you just add/delete the video article? You don't need to remove the whole thing. Cococrash11
 * Because it's not canon, and we have no idea where it fits into the character's history. It shouldn't be on this page at all. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

What the heck are you talking about? Vanitas's orgin and first apearnce is Birth By Sleep video just like Master Xehanort. WHy don't you include video in the article? Master Xehnort, Terra,Ventus, and Aqua had one to. Cococrash11
 * The Story section is supposed to be a chronological summary of that character's plot. Consider - including the video synopsis 1) claims that it is canon, which it is not, and 2) claims that they did the video before they did their actual story. For example, the way Deep Dive was placed for Riku, it claimed he fought Roxas before going to Castle Oblivion, which is wrong.

At most, there should be a mention that "X appeared in secret video Y" in the lead or something. However, those videos ARE NOT CANON, and should only be summarized on their own article. Glorious  CHAOS!  23:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Birth by Sleep
This is a secret movie in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix. The two are charged by Terra, and Master Xehanort responds by shifting the earth beneath them to create a rising plateau that carries Terra above the rest. Master Xehanort then lifts the ground beneath himself as well, creating a cliff much higher than the surrounding terrain. It becomes apparent that Master Xehanort and Vanitas have great power; while Vanitas strikes Terra with Thunder, and is immediately pursued by the other two knights, Terra chases after Master Xehanort, who creates a Keyblade cyclone to aid Vanitas against the two knights.

Vanitas chases and battles the two knights on the cyclone, and neither are able to overcome him. Noticing that Terra is getting closer to Master Xehanort, Vanitas directs the cyclone towards Terra, knocking him off the cliff. The two other knights watch in horror, and one of them is hit by the cyclone, crashing to the ground. The knight's helmet is gone, revealed that the knight is a blue-haired woman, confirmed by Nomura as Aqua. The third knight comes to her aid and she unleashes Reflect magic on Terra to protect him from the cyclone, which protects him from the cyclone until the cyclone pushes him up to the cliff where Master Xehanort is where it explodes, blasting the cyclone to pieces. Terra is dropped to where Xehanort is.

Terra briefly duels Master Xehanort until the old man freezes his left arm. The third knight attempts to attack Master Xehanort from behind, but Master Xehanort teleports himself behind him and grabs him by the helmet, crushing it and freezing him. Terra tries to stop him, but Vanitas reappears and hits him off the cliff with the cyclone's remains. Master Xehanort freezes the third knight's body solid and throws him off the cliff, shattering his Keyblade and helmet. Aqua catches his body and his face is revealed to have a striking resemblance to Roxas. Though frozen, he moves his eyes to indicate that he is still alive. His name is Ventus.

Master Xehanort's Keyblade reverts into a purple and blue ball of flame-like energy. Master Xehanort then raises his hand to the sky while holding the sphere, and the ball of energy promptly shoots upwards to part the gathering dark clouds, revealing what appears to be Kingdom Hearts by means not fully explained. Terra removes his helmet to look up at Kingdom Hearts as his eyes turn yellow.

What should we add
Should we add that Vanitas and Ven are going to fight each other? I mean in the new trailer they first start talking in The Gathering and then they both whip out their keyblades and get in their battle stances.--Xsonicdragon 01:39, October 30, 2009 (UTC)