User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa/Closed Sections

=2009=

KH Wiki Banners (2009.04.18)
'SUMMARY : This discussion came about when I posted a message on the Manual of Style talk page about a header at the top (or else we'd still continue reading dreary black-and-white text !). This idea applies for all pages bearing the prefix "Kingdom Hearts Wiki:" - yes, the project pages. Doc rocco was the first to take a look at this idea and he talked it out with me.'

Doc rocco : Hey! I made some banners, which I thought I'd showcase. Opinions would be very much appreciated. ^_^
 * Banner number one!
 * Banner number two!
 * Banner number three!

I have no idea what you were thinking of, but that's my idea. Of course, you could use the same banner for each page, or certain people could have the PSDs/PNGs and add text for specific pages. Anyway, I'll await your critique. ^_^

TroisNyxEtienne : OMG... they're cute ! Ya know, I could draw out a few ideas from these. I don't know what the width of this page is, so I'll try to make it "wider wide." Let's see...

Doc rocco : Awesome. :D I can't wait to see them.

As for page width, it'll be whatever the widest image is. =\ I resized my window and managed to make it very small before a scroll bar appeared. xD But not much wider than 600px, I'd say. Then we're delving into the realm of obtrusive banners with large file sizes. :\

TroisNyxEtienne : They were originally 960 pixels in width (the width of a Powerpoint slide).

Here they are :


 * Header 1
 * Header 2

I hope it's wide enough..... Or maybe we'll have to make it even slimmer.

Doc rocco : Ooooh, pretty! They're great, man. You are a PowerPoint pro, fo' sho'! They'd look even better as PNGs! :D

I think your whole text thing is better. I should remodel mine so that you can incorporate the page name, but that's not to difficult. Gogo PSDs!

TroisNyxEtienne : Thanks. ^_^ I'm not sure how to incorporate the page name into that one, though : It's just something which goes like [Kingdom Hearts Wiki:], which I inserted into the image (WordArt, of course)... and that's it. I wonder if we could like, make a table template with that background, and at a certain column span, insert the page name.

Maybe BebopKate, ILHI, Azul or Yuan might be able to help us.

Doc rocco : Yeah, that's a brilliant idea! If we could manage that, I think we'd be set! I have no idea what'd be involved, though. My wiki markup isn't very advanced. Beyond tables, infoboxes, collapsable boxes, etc., I'm pretty limited. I'll stay in the graphics department for now. ^^;

Summer Group revised. I redid my favourite out of the three using you [Kingdom Hearts Wiki:] thing. I must say, it looks a lot better now. Yay for inspiration!

I think these could really spruce up the project pages. Heck! We could even make smaller banners to head the various sections if we wanted to make it more interesting!

TroisNyxEtienne : We all love colours, don't we... ^_^ This talk page should be turned into a mensa !

Doc rocco : Colours are awesome. :D And you're so right. If not this page, a page somewhere! This could be an epic discussion.

TroisNyxEtienne : I think I'll set up one pretty soon (but it won't be in use today, because I'll be going to sleep in 9 minutes) - I'll transfer this discussion there.

Doc rocco : Excellent. Just make sure you link me once you've done it! ^_^

That sounds like a good idea, actually. I really do need to sleep as I've an early morning. Well, early for me. xD Night!

TroisNyxEtienne : G'night !

(TNE : And that's how the Mensa came into existence.)

Okay, I managed to get text to overlay on an image, and it's adjustable! We could make a template, even! It's on display in my Sandbox. I think though, we may need to get rid of the square brackets. Also, I've done a quick explanation on it. You can look at the code and see if there's a better way, too.  Doc  rocco  03:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure. I've just taken a look. Wonderful, I say ! I wish everyone else could join us here. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:05, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Molto bene! The banners are very nice. We have 15+ KHWiki: type pages, who says we only need one? - Azul 8  1677  03:50, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Merci Azul. To date we have five, but we'tre thinking of a way to remove the square brackets. Click on the Photobucket links above. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:53, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, if we're to use all the banners, it wouldn't be that hard to change the text in the original document (I don't know if you save the PPTs, but I save my PSDs) and just upload them to the wiki or externally and keep the square brackets? At least if we did that, the text would retain the formatting used originally. With the thingo I made, I know the text looks out of place next to the text with the layer styles applied. xD  Doc  rocco  04:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I hardly ever save my PPTs ! That's the one thing which I always don't do. Unless..... you wanna keep the text outside the square brackets in my case. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, with your banners, you've put the text in the most perfect spots! It'd be dead easy to relocate the bracket, and the image would look exactly the same! Though in the case of the second one, we might need to move the text so we can fit in more, but that's still easy as pie since it's on a white background and there'd be no clone stamping. :D Then the only thing left to do is see what fonts you used for conformity. *gets to work on it now*  Doc  rocco  04:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Well lemme see : I used Jerry's handwriting for the first banner and Agency FB for the second. I'm not sure what'll go with these. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I finally managed to get going with the banners, so here we have the amended versions.
 * Trois' first banner
 * Trois' second banner
 * My first banner
 * My second banner
 * My third banner

So there we are. =D Of course, I'll be able to change the text if needed, and I can send PSDs wherever if we go with this idea. Thoughts?  Doc  rocco  11:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, you actually managed to move the text ! Kudos for a job well done. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 12:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Blue-Flash : I think we should send out a survey to most of the wiki users and set a dead line and the one with the most votes gets to be the banner.

TNE : Surely, after I bring this to everyone's attention. So far I've only managed to tell you, Azul and Rocco.

Yeah, for sure. Should we have a preliminary vote as well, on whether we want a single banner, or to use all of them, and possibly more? And if we want to have a single banner, shouldn't we let other users submit entries?  Doc  rocco  13:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, we should. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Francophone Wiki forum header (2009.04.25)
'SUMMARY : This section was created because of this header. And, as you will conclude, it needs a revamp. I can come up with the text, but again, it'll involve the use of banners as in the previous section. I pinged a few users to help out with the wikimarkup...... let's see what develops.'

Whilst on the subject of banners, I need you guys to take a look at this. The forum header is plain red, and I have ideas on images and text, but not on wikimarkup ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

What do you want in terms of wiki markup? Like, an image embedded in a div, or a table?  Doc  rocco  00:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm thinking of an image embedded in a div, like what we last worked on... (Even our forum headers have images embedded in divs) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Err, wut? You claim you need help with wikimarkup, but to do what exactly? I can help with wikimarkup but there's nothing "wrong" with it so I've got nothing to fix, and I don't know what's wrong with it. To embed an image into a div: how? シ Lion Heart ツ 13:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

( Rocco, explain... you were the one who created the idea. See User:Doc rocco/Sandbox - Rocco started this idea.) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's beautiful. The markups just the same. (Again, wow. I was going to do something like this for my talkbox but never did it in the end because it would hurt my head too much) --But the code can be re-used, develop an image, and change the pixel sizes to match the image sizes height and width, the indent size where the text starts. Though it will have to be aligned left for it to work, right Doc? 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Left ? o.O Okay. I'll give it a try. No : first I have to develop something. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:22, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, let's see how this goes (chances are that I might have to reposition the text) :

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Okay, it isn't working. The text colour needs to be white and for some reason, it just doesn't change. Lemme try with 1024 pixels and see the difference in width : No, that was too big. I think I'll need a maximum of 800 pixels. I'll try reuploading.

TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader800.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Okay, it didn't work. ILHI, Rocco, anyone ! Help ! Please........

Let me try changing the text to white Ice  boy  14:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC) http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

It worked, ya? Ice boy  14:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

What about the one at 800 pixels (the second one) ? I think the width is better. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:53, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, let's try it on that one:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader800.jpg  Vue d'ensemble

Hmm... why doesn't the text come in the middle? Ice boy  14:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * EDIT CONFLICT

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg <p style="position: absolute; bottom: 0.3em; left: 290px; width: 225px; padding: 0; background-color: transparent; font-weight: bold; font-size: 20px;"> Vue d'ensemble >

HOWEVER, you need to have extra space for the " > ****". There isn't enough space on there unless you modify the text. 14:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

DO NOT use 800px as it is hardly "low-resolution friendly". I use average size and it goes off the right margin. 14:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * HOLD ON. My current code WILL work in the template. 15:01, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

yeah... but just an idea of mine: having the text a bit bigger Ice  boy  15:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/Forumheader-KHWiki-Francophone.jpg <p style="position: absolute; bottom: 0.3em; left: 290px; width: 225px; padding: 0; background-color: transparent; font-weight: bold; font-size: 20px;"> Vue d'ensemble

OMG ! That's huge ! Then where do we put in the Pagename as ILHI tried putting in ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

To prove it works, look at the forumheader on the wiki, and the current way works fine - look at the subforums. Any other changes? 15:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look. EDIT : Wonderful ! Now, I'm trying to see what I can do for the Vue d'ensemble page. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : Thanks, guys ! Unbirth and I owe you big time. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:26, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Affiliates page ! (2009.05.10)
'SUMMARY : This idea was brought up by Azul on BebopKate's talk page. We've gained a new affiliate and we're now thinking of how to structure a page just for our affiliates and our sister Wikia projects. Now, time to realise that idea.'

Well, we can scratch off the KHInsider off our list of possible affiliates. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 05:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

What, they said no ? Anyway, I can't even find the site (the link from Heartstation isn't working and I can't even get a snapshot). The francophone wiki gets a nod from me. ^_^ For Final Fantasy Almanach, I believe you'll have to ask DeadlySlashSword - he's there, but just a regular user - I think he'll be able to ping the admins over there. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Can't find it? Try this link. If not, I can get a snapshot. Yeah, a forumite named Victor over at the KHI's forums said "I do not think there is any interest in affiliating ourselves (KHI) with your website.". I don't know if he speaks for the whole KHInsider staff but..... there's a lot more KH sites out there. -Luxza 05:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, we'll keep watch over other sites for now. Oh, and do ask Unbirth if he can get to Kingdom Fantasy. Your voice has more of a say in this, and not mine. If I could, I'd keep watch over the forums (because I'm pretty sure KHI doesn't run on one voice alone). TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT 06:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC) : Almost forgot - I tried accessing KHI from Heartstation. So trying that external link doesn't work.

That user isn't listed as staff here. You should probably try filling out this form instead, Azul. &mdash; Yuan <font color="#00BFFF">Saluto!<font color="#1E90FF">Acta 06:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Yuan, think you or Azul or BebopKate can ping Unbirth and get him to ask Kingdom Fantasy ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : 06:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC) Whilst I figure out how to work out the Affiliate page, I need help on these :


 * Calling Unbirth. Done. Will try pinging Kingdom Fantasy perhaps, in a few hours, or maybe tomorrow (since they're also affiliated with Heartstation).
 * Getting snapshots. Will find more once more affiliates join us. Thus far I've only managed to gather the francophone wiki and Heartstation logos.
 * Getting the affiliates together.
 * Getting everyone's point of view.
 * Getting the sister Wikia projects together (the francophone wiki's already under cover. ^_-)

Okay, these are what I had in mind : Chain of Memories cards - all made by ourselves ! Sooner or later we'll have to gather more images - a logo would be preferred for each site. If all else fails, we'll use the usual heart-crown-Keyblade sequence. Since I'm sizing these at 100px each, each line can only fit six. Or, we'll arrange it according to the number of affiliates we manage to reel in. (Speaking of which, I have to see if I can get help with Kingdom Fantasy...)

Nice. These look great, and fit in with the Kingdom Hearts element. I think that the middle image should reflect on the affiliate's logo. Heartstation's does, for example. - DoorToNothing

^_^ I tried my hardest to save the francophone wiki logo, but I couldn't (everytime it ended up showing the command "Save Target As" instead of "Save Picture As", and so I gave up, and thought of something close to it. Since the logo is yellow, I might as well pick something yellow. Then again, I think I should ask Unbirth to just meet me at the Mensa... TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

About KHI, I'm on the forum staff there and I saw Azul's thread earlier. Did you bother to ask Silh, the admin? Don't listen to what Victor and Rain said, Victor is just in charge of video games and Rain is strict about her information. They don't speak for KHI as a whole. At least we have Heartstation though, since alot of our information at KHI used to be given to us because of the person responsible for Heartstation. She's a retired staff member of KHI. Guardian Soul 01:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Think you can help us get their affiliation ? Please ? I'm terrible when it comes to approaching people. o.O TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 02:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. For the logos, you can simply take a printscreen of the image and edit it in Photoshop. Try taking it direct from the source though ([http://fr.kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Fichier:Wiki.png link, because I'm nice :P). &mdash; Yuan <font color="#00BFFF">Saluto!<font color="#1E90FF">Acta 05:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Merci. Oh, and by the way, I don't have Photoshop. I did all this stuff on PowerPoint. ^_^ I'll upload the new version of the Francophone Wiki card soon.

EDIT : Done. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow... like it! so, how many cards/links will there be? - Ice  boy  13:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the number of affiliates we'll get. At the moment, we've got two (as you see above, Heartstation and the francophone wiki - well, I threw myself in, but after that I asked Unbirth). So if other sites respond, we'll add in more cards. There are six or seven colours for that pattern, so I've gotta work on finding the logos. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 13:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Ohhhhh~ nice idea, I like the cards a lot. But what if we get more than 9 affiliates? The numbers will still go up even if CoM cards go up to 9? We'll also repeat colors or we'll use the color that better suits the site's logo? --Yer mom 14:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll try and make it correspond with the site's logo, but if all else fails, we'll repeat colours. I have to experiment with the gradient, though... As for the numbering system, I'm not sure whether to use 1-9, 0 and then repeat, or go up. I think we should just make it go up, to indicate the number of affiliates we have. Already the card design breaks from tradition. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:14, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Here are some ideas for more affiliates: - Ice  boy  15:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kingdom Hearts Insider
 * Kingdom Hearts Ultimania
 * KH 13

should we try and contact these sites? - Ice  boy  15:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You try. And as Guardian Soul said, contact Silh. The Admin. Don't contact Victor and Rain. Silh might be more compassionate towards the Wiki and perhaps affiliate KHInsider with us. Anyway, all the rest of Heartstation's affiliates are our potential affiliates, so we're trying... I'm horrible when it comes to confronting people. You try. Please. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually not that good confronting people either... and I have really no idea what to say/ask... help... someone... - Ice  boy  15:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I'm not gonna let Azul do it - because he did it once, and failed when Victor replied him. I'll try BebopKate - she's the most senior of all of us in terms of age, and probably the most level-headed of us all. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm late ^^' (f*****g jet lag) The pictures are great, I'll try to make one myself to put on the french wiki. --Unbirth 17:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry about contacting Silh, I mean, if Kate wants to do it because she's an admin, then sure, but I can easily ask Silh because I have him on msn. I'll just run it by him when he gets on. I can't see why he would say no. Guardian Soul 18:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

@Guardian Soul : Okay, you do it. ^_^

@Unbirth : Merci... But what with the *bleep* jet lag ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

@TNE: I like it! "Confront"? Io non ho intenzione di affrontare Victor. Ha detto qualcosa di negativo del wiki e lo ignorai semplicemente. NON POSSO FALLIRE!!!!! -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Ooo, nice design! I like it! As for KHI, I'll let Guardian Soul handle it since he's already familiar with the folks there; my rational grown-up self might scare the kiddies. ^_- BebopKate 04:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@Azul : J'ai compris ce que tu viens de dire. Fascinant, hein ? Eh bien, je suis sure que Guardian Soul le fera pour nous. On ne doit que lui donner le feu vert. ^_^

@BebopKate : Thanks ! I'll let Guardian Soul do the negotiation. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, how's progress with the affiliates ? Please keep me updated. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the link to the page where we'll store the affiiliates? just being curious. And on a random note, I just remembered Mensa in spanish means Dumb referring to a woman XD! Ah, the joy of languages... --Yer mom 15:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thus implying that Ansem was all dumb. ^_^ Nest-ce pas ? Meanwhile, I believe we'll create a new page - Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Affiliates. Stuff like this should have their own project pages. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Hrm. I... don't really have any ideas to contribute, except perhaps pinging the Final Fantasy Wiki? I know that someone mentioned the Almanach, but I think that's the German one or something, and I'm talking about the English one. But if I ever do come up with more ideas, I'll be certain to make them known. MechaUltimaZero 16:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 12:34, 12 May, Ohio Time

As I said, I tried to do a logo to put on the french wiki, representing this one. Here it is: --Unbirth 17:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

@Unbirth : Wonderful ! ^_^ And the colour's just right. What do you guys think ?

@MechaUltimaZero : I mentioned the Almanach, and yes, it's the German one - one of our users is in it. As far as I remember, we've even tried for francophone allies (hence the francophone wiki and the attempt to get Kingdom Fantasy). The Final Fantasy Wiki would also be a good idea, as they have brief accounts of Kingdom Hearts appearances of Final Fantasy characters. Azul, ILHI, Yuan, Drake and all those from the Final Fantasy Wiki, please take a cue. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 23:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the FFWiki has us on their Links page under FF-related or something. @TNE:Parla l'italiano? O tu capisci la lingua perché è simile al francese? -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 00:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

@Azul : Parce que c’est dérivé du latin, je comprends tout ce que tu dis. C’est de la langue française que je comprends le latin, et ensuite, les autres langues. Mais je ne parle pas italien, désolée…

What, they have FF-related links ?

Credo di aver capito. Yes, the page can be found here -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 00:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, but it's like, only in a list of links. Think we should make a card for that as well ? (I've got no choice but to use yellow !) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 00:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I say no. They have us as a link, so should they be placed as a link. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, no one else has us as a link... Why the double standards ? Just because they put all their affiliates in links doesn't mean we have to do the same, n'est-ce pas ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I meant, we're not affiliates of them. We just link out from them. -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 01:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay. But where do we put the links (which are not cards) ? o.O TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm on FFWiki too, y'know! MechaUltimaZero 11:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

You know what, I think we should ping the admins over FFWiki and ask whether they wanna be affiliates. Sounds fair enough a deal, non ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys ??? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 16:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been trying to work out the kinks in my new talk template. Trying to make it so that doing the "happytext"/"blahtext"/etc. thing would affect the entire box. So far, not working. But I'll fix it eventually. It's called MetaZ2. MechaUltimaZero 17:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

FFWiki would be cool. I think about half of the people here are over there anyway... BebopKate 22:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Exactly ! And I know some of the mods (if not the admins) from over there are with us on KHWiki. Go push the admins, I tell you ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 23:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Isn't anyone gonna drop by ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 06:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll ask, since I'm a mod there. &mdash; Yuan <font color="#00BFFF">Saluto!<font color="#1E90FF">Acta 06:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * To be straight and honest, this wiki was taken over by the exact same guys from FFWiki - with the idea that KHWiki would be some sort of a sister project to FFWiki.
 * Oh...and I didn't know you guys were discussing about creating a links and affiliates page. Sorry for the intrusion on the sidebar - I removed it so you guys can consider what really is best to do. <font face="Trebuchet MS"> BLUER   一番   14:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

@Yuan : Tell me what the outcome is.

@Bluer : I see you've done some changes to the sidebar, but where's the link ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mediawiki changes only appear when saved. I removed the change, that's why it didn't show. I removed it since there's still a discussion. I leave it to you guys to decide the outcome. <font face="Trebuchet MS"> BLUER   一番   04:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh okay. I've a feeling that we'll go on with the page, because we'll have to give a brief description of each page (and I'm sure we can't do it in the sidebar !). So let's see how many affiliates we have :


 * Heartstation
 * Kingdom Hearts Francophone Wiki
 * Kingdom Hearts Fanon Wiki (soon to be developed, but we're giving them the green light to affiliate with us).

That makes three. Plus, if we manage to get Final Fantasy Wiki, that'll make four. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

What's with the pink, Troisnyx? I'd like you to change that to blue or green or something--yeah, green would work just fine. See yout talk page on KHFW for more details. MechaUltimaZero 11:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll switch the colours and use the same arrangment, but shall I retain the font ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 11:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : 14:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC) Done. That makes three cards ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

'ANNOUNCEMENT : The Affiliates page is finally up ! All of you, go see Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Affiliates. Any further discussions will take place in the KHWiki:Affiliates talk page. Enjoy ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 03:34, 16 May 2009 (UTC)'

Atlantica Song template ? (2009.05.13) : CLOSED (Will be reopened when better ideas flow in)
SUMMARY : I know I'm not a fan of Atlantica's song system but I still need to organise those songs...

I had this idea in mind only just now. I'll base it on my TNE-Subpages template.

As you can see, it's not complete. There's still a few more things I intend to do for the title bar. Like, add a shell, or a fish from the title image, or summat.

The colours of the songs are based on the buttons and commands introduced : Swim This Way involved the blue circle with, so it's blue. Part Of Your World involved the green circle with a, so it's green. Under The Sea involved the training, so it's pink. Ursula's Revenge involved the purple circle with, so it's purple. And because A New Day is Dawning uses all training buttons, I ended up putting it in silver.

'''Nah, I think we should probably just use a "See Also" thing instead of a Template. Granted, though, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter that much. MechaUltimaZero 11:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)'''

'''Great idea. I know I hate the songs very much, but a good idea is a good idea. Amy Cotton 11:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)'''

'''Hrm. Given that the alternative would probably be a category, I suppose I'll just go along with it after all. MechaUltimaZero 11:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC) 7:52, 13 May 2009 (Ohio Time)'''

Although I'm not a fan of Atlantica, I think this is a good idea! a crab image huh? how about this: - Ice  boy  13:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks OK (I could however turn one of them around so they're both facing the middle if you'd like)

EDIT: Done! - Ice  boy  13:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks nice. Amy Cotton 13:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Merveilleux ! Now, time to put it under Navigation Templates. Thanks also for the crab pix, Xig. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Does the badge thingy actually work here ? (2009.05.14)
After what I saw on Chocolancer's FFWiki page, I thought I'd give this thing a try. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT 15:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC) : Okay, it didn't work. Just in case you were wondering which badge I was talking about, see Chocolancer's page - the bottommost part. The badge with the logo + username + number of edits. Tried testing the same script here but it somehow doesn't work.

If it doesn't work why not ask Chocolancer about it? He may be able to give a reason why it doesn't work here. --Yer mom 15:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of which, don't divert attention away from the Affiliates page ! I'm still waiting for Yuan's response. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, we can use my KHfanonWiki (which is really more of a KHL wiki) as an affiliate! MechaUltimaZero 15:57, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm happy with that... though first of all, get a logo - and tell the admins. They'd be delighted to hear that. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 16:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You're more than welcome to come and help me out with that. Sadly, all I have so far is a page for Vector Gray and a KHL template, but I'm working on it! And again, the first people to come help me out will be made into admins/etc! TNE and ShadowXemnas have the first invitations. MechaUltimaZero 16:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll create my userpage there tomorrow, perhaps. It's past midnight here. (And in the meantime I'm still waiting for Unbirth and a few other users !) *yawn* TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 16:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : Done. What about the badge, guys, the badge ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I think this badge has to be created here somewhere... but where... - Ice  boy  16:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too sure myself....... ^_^" MediaWiki space perhaps ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 16:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Enemy template ? (2009.05.17)
'SUMMARY by DoorToNothing : So, I believe that the strategy guides I have for all of the North American Kingdom Hearts games can suffice for a guide the attacks the Heartless and Nobodies use. I need to create a table for them to put on the pages; its my next BIG project. How can I create such a table, like the ones that are already used on the KH Wiki?'

For the enemies themselves ? I thought KrytenKoro was in the midst of developing one... TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand, he means a small box which would display the attacks which enemies use, not the main template. Am I correct DTN? Guardian Soul 04:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Think we should have it added into the current template as a third tab ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 04:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

We were actually going to have the tabs for the main template as one tab for every game. So one tab for Kingdom Hearts information, one tab for Chain of Memories, and one tab for Kingdom Hearts II. I think that this little box that DTN wants to create would be fine resting somewhere else down the page. Guardian Soul 04:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, here is the summary that I put of trois's talk page:

I think that I will need 4 columns:Action, Type, Description, & Deflection. Deflection can be abreiviated as DFL, because I'm just going to put an O (deflectable), Ø (non-deflectable), or ● (deflectable, but will not interupt the attack/combo). The number of rows will have to vary with the number of attacks each enemy can use. And I think a title bar will be necessary, to say "[Enemy Name] Attacks". Think you can handle this? --DoorToNothing 05:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

And for those who're gonna start on the template, you're most welcome to begin them here i.e. put in the full coding here. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll try:

How's that? (the header automatically says the pagename!) - Ice  boy  12:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Where does this go ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 13:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

fr:Utilisateur:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa
 * The stat based setup the enemies have, and the huge amount of attacks some have, I would actually rotate that table, and or abbreviate the stat headers.
 * Sorry I haven't gotten to work on the Heartless box yet; my video game room flooded because the bloody raindrain had gotten clogged with plants, and I've been dealing with that. I'll start on it now. Glorious  CHAOS!  14:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, will this be used on boss pages? If so, the title will need to be recoded so that we don't have (Enemy) in the title. Glorious  CHAOS!  14:03, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a feeling we might use them on boss pages. I can't say for sure, though... I mean, they should ! TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

So just as an example:

with an align=center thrown in where it needs to be. Glorious  CHAOS!  14:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, if you're doing more than one attack per table, we'd have to figure out how to have a template have an indeterminate amount of rows. I have no idea at this point how to do that, so the template might actually be better for setting up the header of the table (so,, and then we continue the rows in normal table coding on our own, and then close the table. Or, the entire data entry could be the input to the table, so it closes on its own. I'm sure there's some elegant way to do it, I just don't know what it is. Glorious  CHAOS!  14:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The width of each column is adjustable right ? o.O

Lemme see, input the data into the table to make it close on its own ? I think we need to ping ILHI. I know his Final Fantasy talkbox was in the form of a close-by-itself table. TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 14:41, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

In response to the bosses subject, I plan to use this on both bosses and enemies from Kingdom Hearts II. And yes, there will need to be an indefinite amount of row, because enemies like Demyx have more attacks than enemies like Shadows.--DoorToNothing 15:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Let me try it out. - Ice  boy  20:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, it works to use the   . but how does a long text come out? - Ice  boy  20:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, it stretches the description column, but keeps the 35% thingy... so when the column is no longer stretchable, it brings out a new line... shouldn't we make it so that the whole box stretches out? how do we do that? - Ice  boy  20:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really great... or even good at all... with coding of any sort, so I can't really help you there, Iceboy, sorry. I'll take TNE's advice and attempt to get ILHI's attention--DoorToNothing 14:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, need a quick overview on what I am needed for and what you are trying to do. 15:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

We're trying to make a table for enemy attacks based on the Bradygames Strategy guide. The big problem is, we were all trying to make the table close by itself so that we could easily put in attacks without having to.... I don't know... Kryten said this : "Or, the entire data entry could be the input to the table, so it closes on its own. I'm sure there's some elegant way to do it, I just don't know what it is." TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's what I don't understand: "closes on its own". What do you mean by "closes"? 15:38, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Here's the full message :

"So just as an example:

with an align=center thrown in where it needs to be.Glorious CHAOS! 14:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, if you're doing more than one attack per table, we'd have to figure out how to have a template have an indeterminate amount of rows. I have no idea at this point how to do that, so the template might actually be better for setting up the header of the table (so, Template:Attack, and then we continue the rows in normal table coding on our own, and then close the table. Or, the entire data entry could be the input to the table, so it closes on its own."

I think we might have to reel Kryten in (though I'm not sure how I'm gonna do it now - I've got to go to bed !) TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 15:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that should be easy. Though, last time I tried to do something like this it didn't work for no reason, well, code conflicts. So you want to have an infinite amount of rows? 16:14, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This what you want?

??? 17:18, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess that solves everything, ya? Great job ILHI! - Ice  boy  17:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Darn, we have to save it somewhere. Will the recommended name be Template:Attacks ? TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 05:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT 12:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC) : It is Template:Attacks, all set and ready for use. Thank you Kryten and ILHI. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 12:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ability Nav Template?
Hey dudes and 'dettes, I was thinking that maybe we should have a navigation template for abilities. Y'know, it'd have a section for Magic, Sleights, regular abilities like Draw, specials like Arcanum, and possibly Limits and Drive Forms. Whaddaya think? Should I try and create an example? MechaUltimaZero 16:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure. An example would be nice. -<font color="#4682b4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 16:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, it's far from perfect or complete, but this is kind of along the lines I was thinking of:

MechaUltimaZero 16:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst I'm here I'd better put in my two cents : I love that idea. Perhaps you want it collapsible with many sections, like most other templates on the wiki ? So the main sections :
 * Magic
 *  Sleights  (Too big to insert in, unless you're focusing on the main sleights. The main page has almost 200 sleights !)
 * Abilities
 * Limits
 * Drive Forms (Warning : Sora's forms are already in another template, so if we're planning on putting this one in, we have to find another way...)

TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi… !) 01:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

How about this:

(Since it's in Userspace now, I didn't know if the regular template thing would work) MechaUltimaZero 14:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It should work. More can be slotted in - see Category:Abilities. I've seen people using talkboxes from their Userspace and I'm not actually sure how that works, but it does. ^_^ TNE (Teste-moi, déteste-moi !) 14:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Testing out the new sig (and if this doesn't work, I'll ping Yuan again) :  TNE  Teste-moi,  déteste-moi ! 14:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, it works normally. Anyhow, are there any major changes I should make to it? Any suggestions? Come ON people, I'm a n00b when it comes to making templates (without excessive copy/pasting, of course)! MechaUltimaZero 15:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Trivia section discussion (2009.10.07)
It's like this : we're thinking of a template for the front page. Like Template:Random Quote, but it's more orientated towards trivia and we'll have to have five bits on the box. Ideas ? <font color="#000000">TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 04:06, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, will this do ?

Did you know...

...that Kurt Zisa was named after is named after Kurt Zisa of Medford, New York, who won Square's "KINGDOM HEARTS: Name-In-Game" contest? ...that Sora's clothes, as well as the size of his hands and feet, are references to Mickey Mouse? ...that Mickey Mouse was supposed to be the protagonist for Kingdom Hearts? ...that Axel shares his voice actor with Reno from Final Fantasy VII over a variety of languages? ...that when Donald is first seen in Kingdom Hearts he shocks Goofy with Thunder, but his starting spell is Fire? ...that Xaldin is the only Organization member killed in a Disney-based world? ...According to Nomura, the Dark Thorn's design is based on Ifrit, specifically the Final Fantasy X version?

...that in the 20th Anniversary Edition of Final Fantasy for the PSP, a child in the randomized dungeon Whisperwind Cove references Sora by saying "I've been having these weird thoughts lately... like... how did I get to this place!?" ...that Sora is the first character to wield three Keyblades at once? ...that Riku is the first Assistance character to appear in the Kingdom Hearts universe? ...that according to Santa Claus, Riku told Sora that there was no such thing as Santa Claus? ...that Riku is the only character in the Kingdom Hearts universe to call King Mickey by his name by Mickey's own request? ...that in Where Nothing Gathers, Vexen has the lowest of all thirteen seats? ...that Vivi is the only Final Fantasy character which was not designed by Tetsuya Nomura to appear in a Kingdom Hearts game?

...that part of Kairi's name ("Kai") is the Japanese word for "sea" (海), and that her whole name is homophonous with the word for "nautical mile" (海里 or 浬)? ...that Xemnas was the first and final Organization member to be fought against? ...that the Japanese name for Moogle, Mōguri (モーグリ), is a portmanteau of the Japanese words mogura (mole) and kōmori (bat)? ...that Hades and Captain Hook are the only Disney bosses in Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories to use sleights? ...that Auron is the first character to be declined by Sora to be a permament party member?

...that in Kingdom Hearts II, the Gullwings were once followers of Maleficent? ...that Xemnas, Saïx, and Luxord were the Organization members which Yen Sid showed to Sora? ...that in the Chain of Memories manga, Larxene was seen reading a book about the infamous French writer Marquis De Sade, the namesake of sadism? ...that the checkers on Roxas's jacket represent light and darkness? ...that Auron is the first Final Fantasy character to be an official member of Sora's party?

...that Axel is the only character to technically curse in the Kingdom Hearts universe? ...that the kana for Hercules is based on his original Greek name, Heracles? ...that Xigbar is Tetsuya Nomura's favorite character in 358/2 Days's multiplayer mode? ...that Luxord is Tetsuya Nomura's favorite member of Organization XIII? ...that Marluxia was originally intended to be a female character? ...that most of Demyx's weapons are named after musical or rock and roll terms?

Yet, I can't get it to display five sections, even if I've put 5 choose inputs. dash it, I finally did it. So what other "options" shall we add into the template ? <font color="#000000">TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 04:57, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

<h2 style="background-color:#CC0000; border:1px solid #aaaaaa; -moz-border-radius: 7px; color:white; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; font-size:100%;">Did you know...

...that Kurt Zisa was named after is named after Kurt Zisa of Medford, New York, who won Square's "KINGDOM HEARTS: Name-In-Game" contest? ...that Sora's clothes, as well as the size of his hands and feet, are references to Mickey Mouse? ...that Mickey Mouse was supposed to be the protagonist for Kingdom Hearts? ...that Axel shares his voice actor with Reno from Final Fantasy VII over a variety of languages? ...that when Donald is first seen in Kingdom Hearts he shocks Goofy with Thunder, but his starting spell is Fire? ...that Xaldin is the only Organization member killed in a Disney-based world? ...According to Nomura, the Dark Thorn's design is based on Ifrit, specifically the Final Fantasy X version?

...that in the 20th Anniversary Edition of Final Fantasy for the PSP, a child in the randomized dungeon Whisperwind Cove references Sora by saying "I've been having these weird thoughts lately... like... how did I get to this place!?" ...that Sora is the first character to wield three Keyblades at once? ...that Riku is the first Assistance character to appear in the Kingdom Hearts universe? ...that according to Santa Claus, Riku told Sora that there was no such thing as Santa Claus? ...that Riku is the only character in the Kingdom Hearts universe to call King Mickey by his name by Mickey's own request? ...that in Where Nothing Gathers, Vexen has the lowest of all thirteen seats? ...that Vivi is the only Final Fantasy character which was not designed by Tetsuya Nomura to appear in a Kingdom Hearts game?

...that part of Kairi's name ("Kai") is the Japanese word for "sea" (海), and that her whole name is homophonous with the word for "nautical mile" (海里 or 浬)? ...that Xemnas was the first and final Organization member to be fought against? ...that the Japanese name for Moogle, Mōguri (モーグリ), is a portmanteau of the Japanese words mogura (mole) and kōmori (bat)? ...that Hades and Captain Hook are the only Disney bosses in Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories to use sleights? ...that Auron is the first character to be declined by Sora to be a permament party member?

...that in Kingdom Hearts II, the Gullwings were once followers of Maleficent? ...that Xemnas, Saïx, and Luxord were the Organization members which Yen Sid showed to Sora? ...that in the Chain of Memories manga, Larxene was seen reading a book about the infamous French writer Marquis De Sade, the namesake of sadism? ...that the checkers on Roxas's jacket represent light and darkness? ...that Auron is the first Final Fantasy character to be an official member of Sora's party?

...that Axel is the only character to technically curse in the Kingdom Hearts universe? ...that the kana for Hercules is based on his original Greek name, Heracles? ...that Xigbar is Tetsuya Nomura's favorite character in 358/2 Days's multiplayer mode? ...that Luxord is Tetsuya Nomura's favorite member of Organization XIII? ...that Marluxia was originally intended to be a female character? ...that most of Demyx's weapons are named after musical or rock and roll terms?

WHAM pretty box thingy? We can do it like in the FF wiki and create a "DidYouKnow" template and just add all the trivia we want in the template and insert it in the pretty box; like the Random Quote Template as you said -- 05:10, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. All we need is the box at the front. But that too will depend on the size/space allocated, and the theme for the season (I know the front page is going to be redecorated soon...). For now, this "option thing" should be immortalised in the Didyouknow template, what say you ? Then we can put it in any box whenever we need it. <font color="#000000">TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 05:26, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

EDIT : Okay, see Template:Didyouknow and yep, we'll add on to it. <font color="#000000">TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 05:34, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

Organisation XIII, Series 2
Credit goes to ENX for the idea of adding quotes.  TNÉ  <font color="#00BFFF">Pour Noël je te donnerai <font color="#C0C0C0">le battement de mon cœur… ♥ 04:11, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Kindly refer to Userboxes/Characters#Organization XIII for the complete collection.

If there should be another round of mod/admin voting ? (2009.10.22)
Ideas for a new implementation system. There are quite a lot of users who think their Wikipeers should select them for modship/adminship, and I believe a lot of us are quite aware about this. However, this is my plan. It's foolproof, there's no need for fights, edit wars, or Wiki users crying over un-nominated people ! Here's the pitch :


 * First, we take a look at the users' edit count by hitting Special:Editcount/(the user's name).
 * The fields to be judged are
 * Mainspace. This should be the main concern.
 * Kingdom Hearts Wiki
 * Help (perhaps)
 * File
 * Category
 * MediaWiki (where applicable)
 * Templates - not a good category to pick, because many people make humongous edits to their talk templates. However, if a user's been known to make tables/tabs/userboxes/infoboxes/navigation templates or help out in coding, then we'd most certainly consider him/her.
 * From these fields, the Staff panel will discuss on nominations, and a list of names will be selected, along with their reasons.
 * From there, all users of the Wiki vote.
 * The final results of the users' poll determines who gets selected. In a way, the Wikipeers are voting, but for the right reasons.

Feedback s’il vous plaît !
 * It sounds great, and much better than the previous peer-nominating. Before, Users who mainly just roamed the talk pages and blogs got nominated by their social peers, whereas that will no longer be a case in point. Also, nice note on the template; for several users, this is why they have a surprisingly high edit count in template; however, there are Users like Xiggie and ILHI who work in that namespace regularly. Altogether, great system. However, the staff actually seems very solid right now; I wouldn't count on having another staff election anywhere in the near, or even somewhat far future. -- Door To  Nothing <font face=Trebuchet MS color=red>Kupo! 04:41, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Community Portal Forum box (2009.10.16)
To work on after my editing on KHFR is done for the day.

DTN suggests double-column, instead of a straight-down bulleted list. So is the box going to be wide ? And how wide is it going to be ?  TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 05:38, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * As for the actual pixel-amount, I'm not sure. I would assume that it will be fairly wide; it'll have a title, perhaps a little sub-heading/message, and then the two columns. Come up with a draft version, and we can work from there. I think that we should double-column rather than single, as it will look cleaner and nice that the simplicity of a bulleted list. -- Door To  Nothing <font face="Trebuchet" color="red">Kupo! 05:45, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so let's say it takes the width of the page, but it's not going to be so big. It's gonna be like, maybe, the size of a maintenance template. What do you say ?  TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 05:47, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say just somewhat smaller than a maintenance template. I'll look later; It is nearly midnight, and I have classes tomorrow! -- Door To  Nothing <font face="Trebuchet" color="red">Kupo! 05:49, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, gotcha. Will start once my infobox work on KHFR is done for the day.  TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 06:06, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Mind if I barge in? :P I just made a preview in my Workshop, go take a look! - <font face="Trebuchet" color="blue">Ice <font face="Trebuchet" color="dodgerblue">boy <font face="Trebuchet" color="paleturquoise">Svalur! 11:20, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, will do.  TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 11:37, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Now, I believe it is done, how is it? - <font face="Trebuchet" color="blue">Ice <font face="Trebuchet" color="dodgerblue">boy <font face="Trebuchet" color="paleturquoise">Svalur! 17:46, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I think it should do. ^_^  TNÉ  <font color="#1e90ff">En avant <font color="#00bfff">Bravo ! 00:06, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * It looks great. I've already put something in the Forums discussion about it, so let's get some more feedback. Unless if you think that BebopKate's feedback is enough. -- Door To  Nothing <font face="Trebuchet" color="red">Kupo! 00:12, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Essai #2 : Lion Form
Okay, this one seems a bit too obvious. Anything we can do to change it ?
 * Minor rephrasment. - EternalNothingnessXIII 15:09, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

I would like to add a tiny detail... You should have an section where it tells you if the form is for battle purposes like Valor Form or just appearance purposes like Lion Form. I'm pretty sure in KHII every appearance form change is because of Sora's new clothes. And for battle forms in the "Gained by" section, you should put what has to be done to get it. Like Valor Form's would say talk to Flora, Fauna and Merryweather about new clothes in Yen Sid's Tower or something like that.- HeartOfOblivion 16:35, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. How's this ? (See the VF infobox above). I'll add the Functionality/Appearance bit soon.  TNÉ  <font color="#00BFFF">Pour Noël je te donnerai <font color="#C0C0C0">le battement de mon cœur… ♥ 01:03, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

To do :
Project Making Peace. Xiggie, if you read this, please hit me on MSN. Yer mom might also be there (I asked her to be there).  TNÉ  <font color="#00BFFF">Pour Noël je te donnerai <font color="#C0C0C0">le battement de mon cœur… ♥ 06:01, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

=2010=

Remodelling of the Manual of Style
Our proposed remodelling of the MOS was supposed to take place last October, some time after the release of Days. Now Days, BBS and Coded are already out in full, and there are several issues that need to be addressed !

I call on all users to deliberate in this section, raise issues which you think need to be mentioned in the MOS, as well as put in new templates, or guidelines on using them, if needed.

I think there should be a guideline on Boss pages describing their layout, in the same manner as the layout of character pages already in the MoS.-- Lapis of the Night  04:29, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, strike that. I could have sworn there was not a section in the MoS about that before... Whatever, glad its there now. However, I would like to see an addition to it: our policy on battle quotes. I personally don't care about them, but I have no idea if we allow them, forbid them, or have some sort of limit for them like on character pages. Generally, there are much fewer battle quotes than normal ones, so is a limit warranted?-- Lapis of the Night  04:51, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

There should be mentioned not to put spoilers on the article's first paragraph and always use spoiler tags on the story section.Redeemer &amp; Destroyer 04:46, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

We will need to add all the new templates/infoboxes for Days, Final Mixes and BBS that Kryten has made especially under the Items and Equipments and also add the different templates for enemies and bosses under the obvious section. We should add under General something about the new Game template and the game navigation templates. I also wouldn't mind there being a category tree of some sort. Many images or pages are categorized improperly or they are not given an actual category but are categorized by ones like "Articles with unofficial translations", etc. from the maintenance templates at the top. - 04:51, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and once the Ultimania guide on BBS comes out (not sure when that'll be), we'll have to start infoboxes for the Unversed.


 * And on the subject of categorising images, maybe we should add this under the Media section ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:55, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Ultimania might come out this next month. It took them around a month to release the 358/2 Days Ultimania. And the thing about categorization, it's not just images. Some people make pages and categorize them wrong or simply do not add them. - 05:07, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, I was part of the problem once :P So for the categorisation section, we'll put it this way : which images or pages should be categorised under which categories. It's an exhaustive list. Then we have categorisation of categories..... <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  05:11, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should add...

Information from interviews

Recent updates on unreleased games

Magazine scans

Japan-only publications, such as the Ultimania?

and Maybe add an Extra to Copyright FAQ's? Death never been this close to you... 07:41, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, which kind of copyright, first of all ? (Do tell !) And we don't usually add scans because by the time the full render is out, the scan will no longer serve its purpose. Do remember that whilst a lot of these are good suggestions, we don't bank on speculation, ya ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  09:21, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for inviting me into this discussion =) You guys have already said things I was thinking of saying, so I'm clean out of ideas now. =P

But, I do have one thing I'd like to ask: I've spotted a few minuscule punctuation mistakes / differences in the Manual of Style, like, some of the "E.g."s are lacking colons after them, or aren't bold. Does anyone mind if I fix them? (Sorry, but I likes mah grammar! ^_^) Dan   - IS THE KING OF THE PLATYPI!!!  13:40, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, by all means ! <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  13:41, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! =D Dan   - IS THE KING OF THE PLATYPI!!!  13:49, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

All right. So over the course of the past few months I've been here and become a more active Main Space editor, there are some issues that have repeatedly come up :


 * With the release of Days, some Heartless names were changed. We should not be changing them to match this, as they are still the original enemies.
 * We should mention something about the "See Also's", and how they are pretty much a redundant section. We should also make note of how many are allowed to be placed
 * Perhaps make note of the amount of navigational templates a page is allowed to have? While the intent was to create game navi's, this really crowds up a page.
 * This might be a tad irrelevant, but whenever a new game comes out or a past game is relatively new, people continue to remove the Spoiler tags, as well as some of the templates needed on the page to indicate this. This should be strongly stressed in the new MoS, or at least we should remind users to re-read the spoiler policy.
 * I all ready made note of this, but we continue to have edit wars, that continue to result in vandalism, possibly draining out the chances of getting a good contributor. If there is some sort of "What and What Not to Do on the Wiki" page we could work on and list our stresses there, then that would be good. This may also aid us in redeeming our reputation (I think some of us would know what I mean)
 * We should make note of adding images and videos to pages, how images (if screenshots of weapons and such, not necessarily scenes) should be added mainly to the gallery, and random renders shouldn't just be placed in to make the page "look pretty." Again we could stress the image policy, and we should also make note of just how many images are allowed on a page, my example being the Awakening. As for videos, they should only be added to the bottom of a boss page and only if the character or enemy is credited as such (Days mainly brought up this dispute, as bosses were fought several times as regular enemies). One (hopefully) ENGLISH and HIGH QUALITY video should be placed per character appearance as a boss, unless we decide upon a video amount or policy. A video should not (if possible) be placed in parts, as this crowds the page. A video should only just show the boss fight, so we're not spoiling a scene in a new game (such as the BBS videos) and it's not a "Get to the point!" situation.

Welp, that's all I can think of for now, but I'll add to it if I think of anything else. Eternal Nothingness  XIII


 * I don't think the number of images is an issue, but rather the relevance. Awakening, to borrow your example, ENX, looks fine to me; the images don't overcrowd the article and serve to illustrate its purpose.  An image gallery detailing how a character's appearance has changed from game to game or within a game would also not be out of place.  Truthfully, I haven't seen a gross overuse of images around here in ages.


 * We had a discussion going ages back about the whole See Also issue, but I think we need to agree on how it should be used first before committing anything. We might want to revisit that one.


 * As for edit wars: I hate to say it, but we can rant, we can rave, we can ban, and they are still somehow going to happen. It's an inevitable aspect of having a wiki.  Other than getting an admin to step in and help if it continues to rage, there's not much we can do about them anyway, short of locking up the entire wiki.  Which, as we've mentioned many times before, just ain't going to happen.


 * I wasn't aware that the spoiler tags were being removed; we shouldn't have to, but I'll add that to the spoiler policy. If it continues to happen, let me know; I want a chat with those who are doing it.

01:35, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

About those bosses in Days that also appear as normal enemies. I heard somewhere they were categorized as sub-bosses or mini-bosses. D.Dark. 16:31, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, after searching, I found some walkthroughs videos that I might be able to put up on Mission page. Last time I checked...there weren't alot of walkthroughs. DarkestofHearts 01:20, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

I should divide these into sub-headings for each issue, once everyone has raised his/her issues, what do you think ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  03:33, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan, but when do you think everyone will have their issues raised? Also, I noticed some of the comments had matters that don't pertain to the MoS editing wise; should we create a branch off of the MoS involving user conduct and such?-- Xion 4  ever  03:51, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Good thought. Now, give me between five to ten minutes whilst I read the whole thing and try divide it into subsections. <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:06, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, anymore ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:10, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Edit conflict): Oks, here goes:


 * Limiting: I think if we limit too many things for a page, it will be a but difficult and painstaking to go through and remove images or something.


 * See Also: My only problem is that they are redundant 4 out of 5 times. Maybe my opinion has changed over time (>>), but I think they should stick to the Enemy/Boss pages.


 * Templates: Sometimes, people don't know which navitemplates/infoboxes to use for a page. There should be a section in the MoS explaining which ones are for which pages and the template pages themselves should display how to use them. Also, the navitemplates that are on pages, but the page is not in the template as link, should be removed. This could cut down on the number of used navitemplates.


 * Spoiler tags: The bane of wikis, no spoiler tags. Or at least, removed spoiler tags. Things have been spoiler for me and various wikis because of this. They should never be removed.


 * Video Walkthroughs: Should we really have them? We could just, if we haven't already, add moar detail to the pages instead. The video walkthroughs should go in... a walkthrough of some kind. Everyone knows how I feel about videos in articles.


 * Categorizing: I'm big on this. We should have some sort of category tree or Help page for categorizing. Just because a lot of pages have redundant categories. Hmmm, maybe this is moar for images... I've been meaning to work on something like this, but like always, I've been procrastinating.

In retrospect, I feel that I blabbed moar about wiki issues/opinions than the actual remodeling of the MoS >> -<font color="#4682B4">Azul (talk ・contribs) 04:11, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I've been skimming a few articles, and I think we need to explain our policy on wikilinking a bit more in the MoS, especially linking to game titles in story / appearances sections. We're only allowed to link to another page once in an article, right? Unless we're linking to separate sections in said articles. But see the Moogle article, for example, it has links to the games in the opening paragraph, and in the sub-headings of the appearances section, is this even allowed? If it is / isn't, I think it needs a mention in the MoS. --<font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="green" size=4>Dan <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="lightgreen" size=3> - <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="red" size=2> MAE'R AMSER YN DOD!!! 13:33, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll be putting my stance in the Wikilinking section. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  14:07, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Videos
It seems that a lot of users put up non KH videos, or fan-made KH vids here on the wiki, but I think that the main reason for that is because they don't know of the YouTube tag. I think that we have to make a note of that in the MoS. Also, about Boss battle videos, I think that we shouldn't have that 4-vid limit. I mean, if the boss if fought in KH, CoM and BBS, shouldn't we have videos of all the fights? -  — <font face=Trebuchet MS color=Red>Ripp <font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Rapp<font face=Trebuchet MS color=green>Rupp 15:57, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, it is kinda surprising that the Beginner's Userpage bit didn't help.


 * We'll make that six vids, or eight, depending on whether we're going to include bits from Coded and the last game. <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  16:00, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Lowdown on adding images
I would really appreciate it if images that don't have white backgrounds like screenshots be placed inside a thumbnail and added a caption. I'd also suggest this for images that are cropped, because having a detached arm holding a keyblade ie Vanitas' Keyblade looks mighty unprofessional. That's all for now. <font face="Trebuchet MS"> BLUER   一番   02:04, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Categorisation
I once had the problem of not being able to categorise things accordingly, and I'm sure many others go through the same problem now. So here's what : Azul has proposed a Category Tree help page or section somewhere. What do you think ?

Personally, I second the idea. <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:18, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I totally agree. I used to be a part of the problem myself, mainly because categorization wasn't really enforced enough. I think that we have to make it clear to new users that they should categorize the images they upload, and then putting up a category tree help page would be an awesome idea. -  — <font face=Trebuchet MS color=Red>Ripp <font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Rapp<font face=Trebuchet MS color=green>Rupp 15:57, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

See Also issue
I think the See Also section is pointless. Many links in that section are already in the article. I think we should at least limit the number of links in this section, or perhaps even remove it. - Lev  L  16:03, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember that the same changes will apply for KHFR ! I think we should limit the number of articles, or, if the See Also articles are also in the nav templates, then we shall remove them accordingly. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  16:06, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. - Lev  L  16:07, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

The See Also section should be removed or only be used on special cases. Many of the See Also are not even related to the article. See Also should be used in cases like the Shadow were Shadow and Mega Shadow and Giga-Shadow are closely related and not like Spellbinder. What does 100 Acre Wood has to do with this Keyblade.Redeemer &amp; Destroyer 16:12, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean, what does 100AW have to do with this Keyblade ? It's closely related ! In Chain of Memories, that's the place where you get the Spellbinder Keyblade ! Of course, those who played the original KH (like I did) initially wouldn't understand its significance. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  23:19, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I forgot about Chains but the Sweet Memories isn't that related and 100 Acre Wood's and Merlin's link is already on the article.Redeemer &amp; Destroyer 23:28, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly. That's where your point is heading : special cases. A lot of things are related to the Spellbinder, and if we had our way, we'd be putting Traverse Town and several others too. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  23:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Wikilinking
Okay, wikilinking. It has been said that you only link to an article once. But for exceptionally long articles, like those of Sora, Riku and the works, we generally link to the same page, say for instance, Axel, a few times. The linking is done at least once per section.

As I am aware that having it only once a page will lead us to put up a wikify notice, for shorter articles, we need to have this rule only once per page. What do you think ? <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  14:07, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me! =) <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="green" size=4>Dan <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="lightgreen" size=3> - <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="red" size=2> MAE'R AMSER YN DOD!!! 14:13, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, when the discussion closes I'll raise all the agreed stances and I think we'll put them in the MOS, if it faces no objection. =) <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  14:32, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me.-- Xion 4  ever  15:16, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Battle quotes
Our stance has always been such that battle quotes are permitted only on enemy pages. Who is proceeding to remove them, and why ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  00:54, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * See this. Also, what about the battle quotes on Donald and Goofy's articles? There is no Donald (Boss) or Goofy (Boss) article..Should we divide the max number of ten quotes between the quotes and battle quotes part? Like five regular quotes with five battle quotes?-- Xion 4  ever  15:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe character quotes should have those coming from cutscenes alone, whilst boss pages have battle quotes. If it's nothing but grunts and cries, like those coming from Absent Silhouettes, then we might as well not put them up. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  15:54, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
We need to clarify EXACTLY what belongs in the trivia section. Most of the current trivia is either redundant or pointless. We need to have something like a list or section explaining what the trivia pieces (if needed) should be. Also, I do believe that the same trivia point shouldn't be on every article. For example see Way to the Dawn, saying that the eye in the center piece is similar to Vanitas's Keyblade on both articles is rather redundant;(that edit was reverted by the way)-- Xion 4  ever  15:21, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Policy
The current stance is that spoiler tags should not be removed. Any thoughts ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:16, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * See this; number four, Kate added that earlier today. Seems like a pretty solid rule to me.-- Xion 4  ever  04:25, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Suhweet, we'll put that in place. <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:35, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, sounds pretty solid. -  — <font face=Trebuchet MS color=Red>Ripp <font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Rapp<font face=Trebuchet MS color=green>Rupp 16:04, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Warning Templates
I need everyone, yes, everyone, to take a look at this page. It's an issue which I addressed in the IRC just yesterday, and I believe it should be put to effect. <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  04:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Second! =) Dan   - IS THE KING OF THE PLATYPI!!!  12:23, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * (ugh, came late...) Third! So far no one's objected to it! Ricki
 * Isn't it really just what we have now? Everyone has always been able to use the Warning templates! But putting some stuff in the MoS about not rushing to vandal talk pages and feed the trolls would be a good idea :P -  — <font face=Trebuchet MS color=Red>Ripp <font face=Trebuchet MS color=blue>Rapp<font face=Trebuchet MS color=green>Rupp 16:10, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Thing is, if you've read the page in its entirety, one person stated that it was a Staff-only privilege. >_> Unless we're thinking of starting a section called Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Wikiconduct and listing all the good Wikihabits that we should practise ? <font color="#2A52BE">Agi Idup <font color="#1E90FF">Agi  <font color="#71A6D2">Ngelaban !  00:56, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * So the warning template discussion is closed? Also the wikiconduct and wikihabits sound like a good page to start (especially after reviewing everyones comments on this page).-- Xion 4  ever  15:38, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we shall begin, at least with the Assume Good Faith or Wikiconduct page. <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  15:45, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Deadline
Shall we set a deadline for all this deliberation, and a target date for the MOS remodel, guys ? Please ? <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font c=olor="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  01:12, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * This has been up for what, a week now? What about ending it this weekend? By then most people would have looked here and expressed their views and such. Just a thought; after all we want the remodel to be done asap right?-- Xion 4  ever  01:17, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Okay, we'll set it to Sunday 7th February, 0:00 (UTC). I know by then I'll be asleep but it should give all of us enough time to express. Then, we'll work on the MOS accordingly (I'll set a date for that too). <font color="#2A52BE">★ Joyeux <font color="#1E90FF">Wiki <font color="#71A6D2">versaire ! ★  01:31, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

July 2010
Log #1

Now I'm not going to the extent of Userbashing here. But... when someone admits it's a lag, it's a lag. If you want to shut the user up, you can tell him politely. I had the entire discussion log with me and there were no cases of people actually saying things which caused other users' ire. It's not called for, when you just block a user after he truly admits it's a lag. Now he's feeling bad and saying it's his fault. I'm only standing up for what's morally right over here, considering that I've been through the same situation as the user concerned, and had Xion not told me about Freenode, had Faethin been there, I'd have suffered the same fate.

And oh, sure, I'd be silenced for speaking the truth. It's nothing new. But where something is not right, I stand up for it, even at the expense of my current position, my integrity, everything.

03:50, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Log #2 (On FB)

You talk about bashing, and you bash the users in their absence. Now, to be honest, the commune is a myriad of people. Some are mature for their age. Others just be immature. Now, we can identify the immature users and for the most part, IRC users and I will be in accord with the same names. From the log I received, there was one swear which was not recorded or admonished. On top of that, there were some things which really disturbed me. Especially with the approach taken to address problems.

If you're going to be just like the person in Log #1, or maybe 50% less harsh, that'd drive any user, for that matter, to even leave. Even me. And to be honest, when I took my Wikibreak last year, it was simply because I just wasn't too happy with the sudden change in environment. Where before NS it was friendly, after that, it was plain stifling. I stayed on hoping to bring about a change. There are small signs of change now, on the part of the discussion that a few Staff and I had, but apart from that, rien.

This entire discussion has been logged and will not remove from my archives in the near future. Call me a prude if you so wish, but I have liaised with the users more than with the Staff (except, perhaps, for a few notable cases), and I take time to know them. So if the least of them gets bashed by the staff, or spoken about, I know. I really do. Don't ask me how. Don't even ask me how I get the trust of both new and old users alike.

I will have to return to the IRC this August and set things right. The IRC is not going in a direction I had hoped for. And I will have to fight.

02:07, July 26, 2010 (UTC)