Talk:No Name

who?
who keeps on deleting the picture of xehanorts keyblade i put on there? there is nothing wrong with the picture!
 * A few important things:
 * 1) It's me, and you'd know that if you read the page history.
 * 2) You keep sticking that picture in the middle of a heading, which is downright stupid.
 * 3) Your picture appears to be unofficial artwork, which has no place on the page.
 * 4) Sign your posts with ~
 * --Neumannz 04:36, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Riku's Second Keyblade
As we know Sora second keyblade is Ventus's keyblade so as riku have Xehanort's heart inside him i think that it's possible that Riku's second keyblade is MX changed into Destiny Place--Xabryn 01:09, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Page Title

 * So name it "Xehanort's Keyblade", then? Like with Eraqus? Glorious  CHAOS!  20:11, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure how we should handle this... while that would be the most logical thing to do, we have to remember we're talking about two different characters owning the same thing. Would it kill Nomura to name this thing? - EternalNothingnessXIII 20:14, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Keys really get names unless they can be equipped. Until it can be (hint to any hackers), it's offical name is "Master Xehnaort's Keyblade." I'd assume that Nomura HAS a name for it, but it's a name for the staff to identify it by. I personally like the name of "Demon's Gaze" for it due to the eyes, and the fact that it is very demonic looking. But that's just My name for it. Hyperwre_2.0 20:33, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Unlocking and Locking Hearts
Do you think that we should shift the information that the keyblade can unlock and unlock hearts to the Keyblade page instead of only mentioning it on this page? After all, Xehanort Report IX seems to tell us that ALL keyblades have the heart unlocking ability, instead of only just Master Xehanort's Keyblade.Zaqaree 17:44, January 7, 2011 (UTC)Zaqaree


 * ...Where does it say his Keyblade is the only one that can unlock Hearts? 18:08, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Master did it?
Seriously, I asked for the actual quotes you believe say this before. If you're right, that's great, but people have been arguing back and forth over this across the wiki, and there needs to be a damn citation before this continues any further. 23:57, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Here's what the game shows: <><><> The Heart That Fought Back <><><>

(Aqua weakens Xehanort. An aura of light surrounds Xehanort.)

Xehanort: Stop fighting back!

(Xehanort becomes unable to move.)

Aqua: Terra, I know you're in there!

(Xehanort becomes able to move a little.)

Xehanort: This'll teach you. Get out of my heart!

(Xehanort turns his Keyblade on himself.)

Aqua: Terra!

(Xehanort's Keyblade falls to the ground and vanishes. His shadowy other appears and vanishes as well, only it creates a dark portal beneath him. Xehanort falls into the portal as Aqua rushes to reach him. Unable to get there in time, she dives into the portal which then has a light shine from it.)

So, yeah, the name of the scene, all narrative convention ever, and the fact that turning the Keyblade on the heart caused Master Xehanort's Keyblade to disappear and his memories to be erased (something that Terra gloats about later) strongly, almost painfully suggest that Terra was responsible. If it is Xehanort, then he's an imbecile, because he sacrificed his Keyblade, his Guardian, and nearly his existence just because Terra was making him fight at only 90% efficiency. 23:59, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Can you also provide the Trinity Archives version of what happened in this scene? 00:14, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I was wrong, and Xehanort is an imbecile:

In a desparate move to rid himself of Terra once and for all, Xehanort turned his own Keyblade on himself, and began to sink into the pool of darkness that spilled forth.

My apologies, English. 01:03, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is rather pathetically stupid, but it does fit in with the scene. -- 01:06, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * But Terra regaining control of his body and stabbing himself to seal away their memories was definitely the better scenario, I think. It would have made more sense. But then again, Master Xehanort did say that possessing Terra was just one of many roads he chose to take, so maybe he knew that somehow, he would get his memories back (I think Xehanort has returned with his memories). EnglishJoker 20:32, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

Suite
Why is this linked to Game:No Heart? 16:52, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the Keyblade needs to be attacked in the battle with No Heart to disable a barrier. 17:04, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that's too fine a point to merit it being attached to No Heart's suite. A mention in the article seems apt to me. 17:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the Frozen Pride and Book of Retribution are part of Vexen and Zexion's battles in KH2FM and they don't have a suite either, so I say go ahead. 17:30, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Master of Masters
Without actually performing this yet, since details are still unclear -- assuming that the scene is what it appears to be, and that the Keyblade is being wielded by the MoM, do we rename this page to "Master of Masters' Keyblade", or do we follow the precedent set with "Terra's Mark", where we use the name from the Ultimania even if it is chronologically misleading?

Also, we will need to rewrite the lead to clarify the chronological order -- as of this scene (at least as it appears), this is MoM's Keyblade first and foremost, and it was definitively passed down to Xehanort. 14:02, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, it's apparently be more like "Luxu's Keyblade" now. And I don't know about the admins. but personally think it's unwise to use names that are misleading in any way, even if it did come from Ultimania. I don't think their information is 100% accurate. It's just like how I feel about the fact that this site dubs this animal as a horned lion just because Ultimania says it, when upon closer inspection it's obviously a goat or ram. Why use information that is clearly misleading? So yes, I personally think this page should be renamed. Blackchaos27 (talk) 05:04, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The information isn't misleading though, it is still Master Xehanort's Keyblade and we don't even know if it's really Luxu's Keyblade or if it really belongs to the MoM, because it's seen for like one second and not acknowledged at all. Changing the name now could lead to misinformation and we all know hard hard it is to purge afterwards.
 * As for the Ultimania: Nobody said that everything is 100% accurate in there, because it clearly isn't. It's still the only secondary canon source we have before we hit fan speculation territory, so using terms coined by it is a save bet. The artwork of Young Xehanort's Keyblade is directly taken from Square Enix, the Ultimania team didn't change the design notes on it, everything else is up for interpretation. -- 07:55, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's called a horned lion in the designer's design notes for the Keyblade. Meaning that is literally 100% what they intend for it to be. And if you look at the image of how it animates, it clearly has a leonid, if gaunt, face -- goats are different looking. 12:30, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think there's not enough information to say it's the default form of Luxu's Keyblade. I feel we should change the lead back to default form of Xehanort's Keyblade, or just say "a Keyblade" or something. 17:24, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's the same language we're using for the other Foreteller Keyblades. Are you proposing we change it for all of them? 21:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * No, just this one. It's like Shard said, we don't even know if it's really Luxu's Keyblade. 21:22, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Ram, not Lion
The Keyblade is the Keyblade of Lust. Each Sin has more than one animal, Lust has two specifically. One is indeed, the Scorpion. The other however, is the Goat. The Keyblade animal is a Ram, which is a form of Goat. Hence it is aligned with Luxu and therefore, not the MoM's Keyblade - Blaid
 * These are not ram horns though, these are much closer but still, please google it yourself. Why does nobody believe the official design notes of Square Enix on this matter? -- 22:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Look buddy, in this picture here, it clearly has fangs. Goats do NOT have fangs. And here, it's clearly the same visage as in the previous image. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 22:10, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * In the former, it is a different Keychain, therefore its shape has changed and does not apply otherwise every Keychain of the Kingdom Key would have similar traits as well. In the latter, there are no fangs on there. And for the record, Nomura and Square have lied on facts before. - Blaid
 * The animals of Lust is either a Scorpion or a Goat, here... Goat Horns. Rams are Male, but Lust is said to be the only "female" Sin! - here - Blaid
 * There is also something in Demonology of a Demon Goat-Lion, Asmodeus, the Demon of Lust. - here- Blaid
 * Just put a bracket on either side of the image you want to link to like I did. Young Xehanort's Keyblade is a fusion of the No Name and Master Xehanort's Keyblade. Yes, it only has fangs in this version, but the point is that the head was adapted from MX's Keyblade, therefore through logic and reason, it can be dudeced that the two, while different, are indeed the same. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 22:43, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with you. They are the same Keyblade, but they fundamentally change with the Keychain. Even Nomura said that the Keyblade Young Xehanort wielded was a different Keychain to the same Keyblade. Keychains are, fundamentally, are just the Keyblade given a different appearance. I.e. - this compared to this. Finally, in context to the Rams Horns thing, where you compared End of Pain's blades to being like Ram Horns. Well... MX's Keyblade has similar blade features. - Blaid
 * I'm well aware of the prospect of Keychains, make no mistake. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 23:26, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * What I mean, in prospect is that it is a Goat. It is not a Lion, it could never be a lion, a Goat has teeth while not fangs while a Lion has never and will never have Horns. All the Foretellers Keyblades are based off real or mythical creatures, a unicorn yes, a horned lion... no. The Keyblade and its Keychains all have a Demonic goat appearance, this is because Nomura went further into Demonology for this Keyblade as The Prince of Hell and Fallen Angel that governs the Sin of Lust is Asmodeus, who has the face of a Goat, see the similarities from one version of him here? Additionally, in most the interview I had heard of and the theory videos I have watched, MX's Keyblade has been often called the "Old Goat Keyblade". An here is a bit of irony, the only hair on Master Xehanort's face is a "billy goat beard", is that a coincidence? I leave it for you to decide. - Blaid
 * It's a lion because the 3D Ultimania says so. Also, this is a fantasy universe, animals can have whatever features they want regardless of fidelity to reality.  Ultima Spark   (talk)  Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png 20:33, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * 3D Ultimania is suddenly the source of all canon Kingdom Hearts knowledge now? You show me an image from a fan site, and expect me to believe a fan did not falsify or mess up the translation? In default it does not look like a lion, only when used in context of YX's Keyblade does it act in the form of a lion. I suppose the entire conversation could be debatable. Perhaps the MoM and Luxu identities have fused together, so their Keyblade traits have combined? Maybe the cameo appearance of "End of Pain", is Luxu's true Keyblade? We will find out the truth soon enough. - Blaid
 * Now you're getting absurd Blaid. All artworks in every Ultimania are not commented on by Studio BentStuff. Either they are presented without comments or Nomura has a sentence or two to say about them. In this case these are the original design notes by Square Enix on the document. Here is the original, you can translate the text yourself if you don't trust the one linked above. How can it get any more canon than this when both the animal on Master Xehanort's and Young's Xehanort's Keyblade is described by a Square Enix artist? I think there are at least three theories why the design of this Keyblade doesn't necessarily has to follow those of the other Foreteller Keyblades, there is really no reason we have to make it fit by any means necessary. -- 00:22, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

That's a ram. Though to be fair, it takes a few liberties - Biblical liberties more like, since rams are representative of the devil. The snout and the ears, though a little elongated, are definitely a ram's. The horns though are a little bit funny though - rams follow the pythagorean spiral pattern, also known as a fibonacci number. Rams with straight horns are a rarity and genetic defect, but they DO happen. As for the fangs, they are MUCH too short to be large feline canines. They're more proportionate to like....a house cat, or maybe a vampire bat (not the front ones!). Sooo....to put this discussion to rest, yes, it's a ram. If you want to be accurate, it's a ram. If you want to be inaccurate and stand by canon sources....which retcon themselves regularly! - go with lion.....even though "luxuria" is actually evocative of scorpions! Personally though, I'd go with the demon. Specifically, the Jersey Devil! 1-....It actually looks like the damn thing. 2-It stands to to toe with some of the mythological animals represented by the Foretellers, like the Unicorn. --Ignis (talk) 23:13, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If we're going mythological there are so many things a "horned lion" can be apart from a demon like a chimera, a manticore or even a behemoth, a poster child of the Final Fantasy series. -- 00:22, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You know, that's actually a good point. That said, the fangs and snout are both not quite long enough.  It still fits the bill more so of a goat or demon. --Ignis (talk) 01:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright, I shall be clear. There are multiple animals per Sin, three for Pride and two for the other six. Pretty much, this video will sum them up rather well. But simply put, Pride will most likely be a Gryphon or Peacock, but I am not ruling out a Lion. Out of the Six apprentice Keyblades, only Gula's Keyblade that does not align with his specific Sin animals. Lust has two, the goat being primary, the scorpion secondary. Given the fact they have already dun-Fooked-up with Gula's, unless Gula has some kind of twin out there named comparable to Gluttony or is actually a false stand in for the "real" Gula then I imagine there is some looseness with some Keyblades. So it is entirely possible, that Luxu's Keyblade does not have to be 100% a goat, but it IS a goat. And in regards to what you said about the Devil, Ignis, the Devil of Lust is Asmodeus and one interpretation of him is this here. A friend of mine claimed once that Nomura has even coined the term "Goat" in an interview, but he neglected to give me a link, so... second hand source I am afraid. Sorry. --Blaid (talk) 02:20, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, I did find this theory rather amusing, it even sounds plausible given what happened to his Keyblade when MX possessed YX. --Blaid (talk) 02:41, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You who are saying that Nomura is lying about it being a lion (extraordinary claims, etc.), have you looked at its nose? That's not a goat nose. It's a lion nose -- it has the pronounced cleft from the nostrils to the lips which lions have and goats do not. It's not even goat horns -- they curve up, not down like a goat. It has no strictly goat-like features -- what it has are horns (which are often added to fantastic creatures) and a snout (which is not at all unique to goats). And then we have the official design notes saying that Nomura intended it to be a horned lion. Which is a thing that exists in mythology.
 * What is even the hypothetical endgame for Nomura in lying about it being a lion? He revealed that the Keyblade belonged to the Lust apprentice in the exact same scene that he revealed that it even was an apprentice Keyblade and that there even was a Lust apprentice. There was no period where we were unsure whether the Keyblade belonged to the Lust or Pride apprentices, or what their Keyblade would look like. There's no realistic narrative for why Nomura would be "concealing the truth".
 * In response to Ignis, yes, it's clearly meant to be a demonic entity, by way of being a horned lion. Jersey Devil looks pretty close (given that is not any sort of consensus depiction of the Jersey Devil), and could maybe be mentioned as an entity the design is trying to evoke, as long as it's clear that it's doing so by illustrating, officially, a horned lion ("a horned lion, possibly intended to represent the X", etc.).
 * That's not Asmodeus, that's Baphomet. This is Asmodeus. Baphomet has not a damn thing to do with Lust, and doesn't actually have any background mythology because it was invented by the Church in an incident similar to the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s.
 * It's a horned lion, we're not going to be giving a shred of respect to anything but officially published material, deal with it. Without a contrary design claim from an official Kingdom Hearts publication, further discussion is a violation of the wiki's policies, and will by definition be trolling. 05:48, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Since when has this turned into a Wikitatorship? --Ignis (talk) 15:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Baphomet is just an alternate version of Asmodeus, different cultures and names but same Devil, do your own research. Asmodeus was invented by the Church, as their incarnation of Baphomet. Why would Nomura lie? Let me answer that with a simple "he has misled us before". He claimed that the only time a slain Nobody can regain their Heart is after their Heartless is slain, but we have since learned that Nobodies can attain their own hearts over time. He claimed the "Unknown" in BBS was a completely new character, which technically speaking, it isn't... it is just a Younger Xehanort. He said that the Cloaked man was the "Master of Masters", but it isn't, its Luxu. He has mislead us once or twice per game. The reason he is telling us it is a Lion is simple. He is making us believe that "this is the Keyblade inherited from the Master of Masters", that the Master of Masters is gone and Luxu is the only one that is left. But imagine it this way... he misled us, it is a goat, and the Master of Masters has survived all this time with his Lion Keyblade waiting in the wings. Goats have elongated faces and Horns that generally pronounce upwards from the heads, just like the form on the default Keyblade, I live in the country and I have seen enough Goats to know exactly how they look. But as I said, this is all very debatable and time will tell. This is a discussion page, and if to "discuss" on a discussion page is a violation of policies, then I seriously question the competence of those in charge. Trolling and Vandalism on a wiki is contained to editing pages. I have said my piece, I shall say no more. Time will tell. --Blaid (talk) 14:14, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Dude, I've actually studied occultism for a long while now, Asmodeus has nothing to do with Baphomet, and Baphomet was invented later anyway.
 * Young Xehanort is a separate character. We see him alongside Xehanort. He's only the "same character" in the sense that Riku, Ansem, and Xemnas are the same character.
 * The cloaked man is the Master of Masters. There's two cloaked men. They have different designs. Compare the images.
 * Dude, look at a picture of goat horns. They don't curve that way.
 * Most of your post is just wrong on basic factual levels.
 * You're not "discussing" anything. You're asking us to treat the published materials as lies to publish your (as I've shown quite ill-founded) fanfiction instead. As I stated, what you're asking is strictly against wiki policy even before we start acknowledging that it's completely counter to reality, so to continue arguing that it should be enacted when you know policy won't let it be is by definition trolling -- you are knowingly wasting everyone's time. If you think we should change policy to allow your fanfiction, you should be discussing that, but this is like going to the BMV and demanding a marriage license -- it's a waste of time, it's been explained why it's a waste of time, and you're still demanding it.
 * Again: continuing to argue about it on this page will not succeed, because policy is against it. Open a forum for public comment about the policy if you wish, but continuing to bark on this page will be treated as trolling. 15:37, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You know who talks like that? Donald Trump.  If that's the policy, then amend it because there's an obviously gaping hole in it.  It's not a godamn lion.  If Nomura says it is, well...guess what, it STILL ain't a lion.  Stop treating him like some sort of god.  He's a man who is just as prone to making mistakes as the rest of us, and has the capacity to be just as full of shit as the rest of us.  Be reasonable.  --Ignis (talk) 19:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Try being reasonable to us first. This is Nomura's story so he has final say on EVERYTHING. If he says it's a horned lion, you say nothing and deal with it. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 20:09, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oor....we can actually stick to factual information. Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?  Because I assure you, Nomura does not have final say on what dictates classical mythology.  I mean...dude, almost every criticism of the series lore can ultimately be attributed to Nomura himself, whom we ALL KNOW just pulls shit out of his ass.  By your logic, "engrish" would be what sticks.  If a control panel of a giant robot that displays a reticule that says "Rocked On", that's what you would go with, even though all knowledge of the english language and common sense dictates it's "locked on."  So for the last time, it's not a horned lion.  It doesn't even remotely resemble a lion.  Do you even know what a lion's ears look like?  Because, I assure you, they aren't long and pointy and set that low.  --Ignis (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Dude, chill, it's a game. A fantasy game. It's NOT serious buisness. Still, as the writer of the series, Nomura can call it whatever name he wants and that makes it the official name. The "factual information" here is that a writer decides what is and is not in his story. And no, a mistranslation on the part of language differences is not "what sticks". Where'd you even get that from? Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 21:17, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Nomura may have misled us before, but he has NEVER lied to us.
 * "He claimed that the only time a slain Nobody can regain their Heart is after their Heartless is slain"
 * That's entirely true, the only way for a Nobody to get back the heart they lost is for the Heartless containing that heart to be slain.
 * "but we have since learned that Nobodies can attain their own hearts over time"
 * That's not regaining a heart, that's acquiring a new heart.
 * "He claimed the "Unknown" in BBS was a completely new character, which technically speaking, it isn't... it is just a Younger Xehanort."
 * The reports in DDD consider Young Xehanort a seperate entity from Master Xehanort. And this is true for most every instance of time travel in fiction where there is a considerate age gap between two versions of a character.
 * "He said that the Cloaked man was the "Master of Masters", but it isn't, its Luxu."
 * Like Kryten said, there are two men in black coats in χ[chi], the one that appeared up until now, and the one that spoke with Ava. Both of them appeared in the Back Cover trailer, the Master of Masters in the beginning and Luxu with Ira. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 17:15, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Ha! Alright, fair enough. Its a Horned Lion, I submit to the prospect of a theory being correct until proven wrong. But the next big question of course should be, was it always Luxu's Keyblade? Based upon the only list I have seen, the Lion is the Animal aligned with Pride? Could it have been the Master of Masters' Keyblade? That would indeed explain and justify the whole "most ancient" thing with Young Xehanort. Given it appeared with Luxu, I though it meant the "most ancient surviving" but now... could the other Foreteller Keyblades be still in play? Another separate question to ask is, the horned lions of eastern mythology, do any of them have ties to the Sin of Lust? Seven Keyblades each aligned with a Sin, if Luxu's Keyblade - note I mean the possibility of his original Keyblade and not the current one in discussion - was a goat, then perhaps it is more Ram-like... essentially given its design feature it could well be "End of Pain" given its a Keyblade that made a cameo appearance? Additionally, another interesting point, End of Pain has two "Eyes of Darkness" and Luxu's goals are more aligned with the MoM's.

I am demanding and arguing over nothing, Kryten. Merely expressing an opinion, a theory. But I am moved past that, to a bigger theory now. So tell me, my friend, what do you think of the premises I have now added? This is a page for discussion, and I am discussing the object at hand and its history. What are all your opinions?--Blaid (talk) 18:52, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, talk pages are for discussions on how to improve the page's content or information, not for general discussion and thoeries. That's what the forums are for. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 20:09, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. Good point. --Blaid (talk) 20:18, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Nobody ever reads the forums though. --Ignis (talk) 20:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As the first, last, and so far, only forum I have ever made in my life only had one other person in the discussion, I can attest to that. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 21:17, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The "factual information" is that the story says what the author has written. That the Keyblade is intended to depict a horned lion is not a theory -- it is documented fact. Whether you think Nomura did a good job or not is immaterial -- the events depicted in Kingdom Hearts are not real, and the job of this wiki is to report what the story says, not what we feel it should say. Any suggestion to the contrary is a crapshoot. As such -- yes, we would stick to Engrish if that's what the games said, because our job is not to create a story that makes sense, it is to report what the games said.
 * Whether or not people are unsatisfied with the activity on this site's forums does not make it acceptable to violate site policy here. If you don't think you'll get attention here, go to KH13 or KH Insider for it, but please do not knowingly disrupt the work on this wiki. 22:41, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You so you'd stick to the "Engrish"....despite the fact that the Kingdom Hearts series did in fact have an instance of that, and you didn't stick with it. Fortunately, I have a very good memory.  Bleig.  Dilin.  Eleus.  All "Engrish" mistranslations of Ansem's apprentices.  You mention that fact, but not once were those pages using those spellings.  Right up until Birth by Sleep's original release, which saw the names in their correct spelling.  So don't give me crapshoots, and don't be a hypocrite....well, is what I'd like to say.  But....you're obviously more stubborn than a goat (NOT.  LION!), and you're the head admin, so there's no point arguing it.  I just don't want to see stuff like this repeat.  --Ignis (talk) 03:28, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool it, pyro. This is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument. And no one is going to listen to you if you lose your temper. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:13, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * But...the fire! Soooo pretty...--Ignis (talk) 05:01, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We didn't even have articles for the individual apprentices before BbS came out. Second off, the articles for their Nobody forms listed the current name because the canon had already told us that the intended names were their Nobody names, mixed around with the X removed. In other words, we had a contrary claim from an official publication, which it has been explained we'd need in order to mention the "it's a goat" fanon. Even then, we still had the article note the contradiction in the very first sentence of the article.
 * We followed the same policy then that we're talking about now. 07:47, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Master of Masters and the Traitor
I think we can confirm the possibility now, at least until it is actually announced, that the Keyblade is the Master of Masters' Keyblade. Based off the reaction Ava has to the Keyblade Luxu has drawn on her, which as a fellow apprentice she would have seen his Keyblade during their training. And of course, based off the prophecy that Gula announces, Ava is the traitor that has betrayed the Master's teachings and turned her Keyblade upon his. But this is still only speculation, based on my observation of a recent KH Insider subbing of a new video. Here. Additionally, I heard whispers that even through the story of Kingdom Heart [chi] is finished, there is more to come on the 29th. --Blaid (talk) 15:59, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No whispers, it was confirmed. -- 16:16, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * On the day I am going on holiday, tut. Perhaps Luxu and/or the Master of Masters will appear! And especially the one thing we have been missing! WHERE. IS. THE. Almighty x-Blade?! --Blaid (talk) 16:56, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

No Name
Just saw Back Cover. This Keyblade is called No Name. How do we deal with this in regards to the other No Name? 16:04, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Set everything on fire. 18:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, technically, it isn't called No Name. The Master says it has no name, and Luxu goes "oh yeah, No Name", but the way Luxu says "No Name" is the same katakana spelling used for MF's prize Keyblade. 18:11, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That technically means it does have a name - Luxu just named it! Happens all the time in Game of Thrones lol.  In any case, yeap, it's a bit of a problem.  The simplest way to go about it just change them to No Name 1 and No Name 2 rofl....but, which comes first lol?  Gameplay?  Or story?  OR...and this could be somewhat controversial, just change Master Xehanort's Keyblade to "Luxu's No Name."  It's the most straighforward change you can go with, even if a bit wordy.  --Ignis (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Never mind, No Name is the eye, not the Keyblade. Here. 19:43, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Er... Saekn was a bit off. We have the English version leaked in the Internet already, and here's the dialogue:
 * Luxu: "The Gazing Eye?"
 * Master: "That's not what it's called."
 * Luxu: "Oh, what then?"
 * Master: "Hm. Actually, no name."
 * Luxu: "No Name..."
 * Gazing Eye (見つめる目), if you're interested, but the fact is, the Keyblade has no name, but Luxu calls it "Gazing Eye" and "No Name". What do we do? 02:24, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * So, then the only official name we have for it is Master Xehanort's Keyblade. 03:17, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * "No Name" is capitalized. That's kind of interesting and official-ish.  For the record, IS 2.8 getting any kind of Ultimania?  --Ignis (talk) 05:39, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I would say that, since Luxu kept the Keyblade until passing to his apprentice, he named it No Name. The Japanese version even has him using the katakana for No Name. I think the implication is that this is somehow the same thing the Mysterious Figure gives you, as in DDD Young Xehanort possessed by Xehanort uses a keychain that is basically a hybrid of both forms. So, No Name (Master of Masters/original) and No Name (Birth by Sleep)? 12:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * If we didn't have a more explicit name for the Keyblade, sure, but we do. The Ultimania have previously called it "Master Xehanort's Keyblade". It sucks, but so does Terra's Mark, when Terra clearly didn't invent the damn thing even within BbS itself. Here's holding out hope that "Gazing Eye" or "No Name" get officialized within an Ultimania, but until they do, we don't have a good justification to start moving stuff. 14:32, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Just a small note: if "No Name" did become the official name, then given who's wielding it, it would be "No Name (Luxu/Xehanort)" and "No Name (Terra/Ventus/Aqua)". Both appear in BbS, so BbS is not a useful parser. 15:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, like I said, "Luxu's No Name" can do the trick. --Ignis (talk) 16:19, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, but No Name is used in a story, so doesn't that count? And BbS actually works as a parser because it's the only time we see that one, while Xehanort's has been around ever since then, and due to being the first Keyblade, we could call it "No Name (original)", or maybe even "No Name (Gazing Eye)".
 * Also, I would expect the Keyblade to not get any other name until it's actually used by the player or someone in the party. Like, Destiny's Embrace was only named in BBS when it was obtainable, with Nomura only calling "Kairi's Keyblade" before it. If so, we might only get a name other than "Master Xehanort's Keyblade" in KHIII, since I'm sure we'll able to play as Master Xehanort in the multiplayer. Square Enix recently had job offers for multiplayer programmers for KHIII (I think it was in LinkedIn, but KH13.com has the link somewhere), so we know they're at least intending to implement a multiplayer. 17:20, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * As claimed on the Symbols page, where is it indicated that the Keyblade ever belonged to the Master? We don't see any of the apprentices wield Keyblades during the "receiving roles, names, and being told to start Unions" portion, so it seems likely that he was literally creating the Keyblade for Luxu, which would also explain why the other Foreteller's keychains have the Gazing Eye symbol (if he did the same thing with them). 20:43, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Except that as fas as we know, only that Keyblade is known to allow him to see in the future. Plus, that is the first Keyblade (as confirmed in 2.5), and Nomura confirmed in Famitsu this week that the Master is the first wielder, and created the very first Keyblade by pulling it from the depths of his heart. Also, the way Luxu referred to that Keyblade as "the Gazing Eye" implied he was already familiar with it. Furthermore, the lion motif fits with "pride", not lust which Luxu is named after, and even the Master's box has the word "XSuper" in the vaguely-lion-shaped symbol. Heck, even Ava recognizes that Keyblade in the browser game, and is surprised to see it with Luxu.
 * Really Kryten, I'm not sure why you are doubting the Keyblade's ownership. We have no reason to believe it didn't exist before that moment, and Occam's Razor would require us to assume it was his, since we don't see him with any other Keyblade, and we know he is the first wielder. 21:34, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Looks like this argument is not only gonna go on for a while, but it's not gonna go anywhere either. I'm out! --Ignis (talk) 23:09, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I was not aware of the Nomura interview -- if it says he pulled the MX Keyblade from his heart, then there we go. I did not see "X Super" on the box, but the Nomura interview should be enough. As far as the browser game, I did not get the impression that Ava recognized it, more that she was shocked Luxu was pulling a Keyblade on her. 01:02, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
 * "Nomura: The Master knows about its existence. Using the X-blade as a model, he creates his own Keyblades. Well, by create I don’t mean that in the physical sense, such as forging and tempering them, I mean more along the lines of pulling one out from the depths of a heart."
 * Okay, so it doesn't say he pulled the Keyblade from his heart. He definitely forged it, but it's not clear that it was ever "his", in the same way that Riku's Keyblade was his. 17:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I would say that it's an explicit confirmation that it was his. Seriously Kryten, why are you so hung up on this? We were explicitly told this is the first Keyblade, and this si the first wielder, and he needs to have bequeathed the Foretellers somehow. Sometimes a locked door is just a locked door. Occam's Razor, man. 02:16, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * He's just trying to make sure we don't end up misleading people with false information. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 05:10, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm confused about it because we only see it in his hands for the fraction of a second as he gives it to Luxu. Considering that he trained Luxu to become a Keyblade wielder, and this is the same moment that he gives him his task, it's not too far-fetched to interpret this as him making a Keyblade for Luxu, rather than just deciding to pass his own down. It also explains why we see the Gazing Eye in the other Foreteller blades -- if he made them for the other Foretellers, then it's basically like a magic keylogger, but if they made them for themselves, why would they include that symbol unless they were already aware of the Master's magic eye and his manipulative plans? Hell, does the Master have his own Keyblade, or did he use his students as guinea pigs on how to create them, and then let them keep them afterward?
 * Granted, though, we currently treat Destiny Embrace as Riku's Keyblade, when he did a similar procedure. Nomura's interview made it clear that it's considered Kairi's Keyblade, and she shows up with it later, so the question seems to more be -- does it count as being in the first handler's ownership if they're pulling it from the main owner's heart and handing it to them? Is that "ownership" or simply a parent helping with a school project? Somewhat related, should we treat Riku as being able to wield two Keyblades, or can he only wield one and the DE was never actually his, just him holding someone else's as he did with Oblivion or Sora did with Roxas's Keyblades? 13:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Question: When the Master says "No Name", does he use katakana? Or is it only Luxu? I can support that as an implied name if so.
 * For ownership: basically my interpretation, with the info we have available (barring later interviews), is that we are seeing the same thing we saw with Destiny's Embrace. If we are considering it as being owned by Riku for a brief time, then we should do the same here; if we consider Kairi as the only true owner of that Destiny's Embrace, we should do the same here. And that's open to change if KH3/Ultimania/Nomura contradicts it in the future. 15:04, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The game retconning it as a "goat" (does horned lion only apply to the YX blade, then?) seems to indicate, per the symbology, that it should be Luxu's Keyblade first and foremost. 13:45, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Are we going with "No Name"? Does the Master use those kana, or only Luxu? If we do this, do we merge in the MF No Name and YX's Keyblade? 13:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Draft. Thoughts? 16:29, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Where is YX's Keyblade called No Name? 17:42, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I like it! Though, as Silent said, we don't actually know the name of his keyblade...even though the smallest bit of logic pretty much clears it up alongside a smidgen of conjecture.  But...can we really go at it based on conjecture?  110% is that its name - we just don't have any actual proof lol.  Also, why are we still using "horned lion" for YX's keyblade?  It's the exact same emblem as on the base one - a goat.  Game releases always supersede Ultimanias and other supplemental material, unless the Ultimania is released after the fact.  2.8 is the most recent thing, so we're supposed to go with goats!  Also...it wasn't a retcon lol.  It was always goats.  :P  The Ultimanias were just wrong.  --Ignis (talk) 20:36, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * KH2.8 confirms goat for the original No Name, but not YX's version. The art for the YX blade shows unmistakably a lion, with fangs, for a special attack (we need to check how that special attack appears in the final game), and, to me, the emblem does not look the same -- the horns are similar, but the YXblade clearly has enlarged canines, different ears, and a different lower lip. That being said, it was concept art, so if we decide that it's still a goat and omit lion entirely within the visible text, we should still have a ref note that it was at one point intended to be a horned lion.
 * The YX blade is a combination of the two prior No Names -- and for that matter, No Name may be the name of the Keyblade itself, but if we're accepting No Name as the MXblade then it seems obvious that the TVAblade, in-universe, got its name from that (also, Japan, seriously? "The Nameless" sounds so much better). I'm fine splitting it off if y'all want, but it doesn't seem necessary. Hell, we could easily just specify that it has no official name, and is just on the page for ease of reading ("the unnamed variant of the No Name used by YX..."), but name-claims aside, this page definitely seems like the best fit. 14:31, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Without official confirmation that YX Keyblade is called No Name, I think we should split it. It does look like a combination of the two No Names, but that doesn't mean it's the same. (Lea's Keyblade looks like a combination of Bond of Flame and Frolic Flame, but that doesn't mean it is one of those.) I would prefer to split each Keyblade to its own page, since they have very different designs, and there's a lot of story involved for just one version, but I'm okay with putting the two No Names together on one page. 17:55, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Three-way split is doable if we are splitting of YXblade rather than just specifying it as "nameless" -- merging the two confirmed No Names doesn't make as much sense without that bridge between them. 18:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In that case, I suggest moving TVA No Name to "No Name (KHBbS)", since it only appears in BBS, unlike MX's, which appears in a lot of games. 18:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * So, "No Name (Original)", "No Name (KHBbS)", and "Young Xehanort's Keyblade"? Or have MXblade be "No Name" with youmay to the other two? 19:54, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I would go for just "No Name", with a youmay to "No Name (KHBbS)" and a see also to Young Xehanort's Keyblade, since it doesn't have the same or a similar name. 20:27, 8 February 2017 (UTC)