Talk:Ventus

Keyblade Difference
Has anyone else noticed that in the gameplay videos for Birth by Sleep, the teeth of Ven's keyblade now face the other way. I only brought this up because the article says he strikes with the toothed edge, which, granted, he does in the original Birth by Sleep video. Insignificant, I know, just something that's been bugging me. Adaxredael 23:33, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Ven left-handed?
It is very strange for someone state that Ven is left-handed, as seen in the secret teaser trailer the Gathering and secret teaser trailer Birth by Sleep. Especially when we have all seen that Ven holds his Keyblade in his right hand in Birth by Sleep game play. I don't even see how that little bit was even put on his page when there is even a picture of Ven holding his Keyblade in his right hand.. The teaser videos may lay down the ground work, but it is rather silly to reference them as factual. Were I am getting is that the little bit on Ven being a lefty should be modified.

Kthnxbai.

Ven seems to be ambidextrous, just like Roxas. Hyperwre_2.0 08:10, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

--

Ventus' and Roxas' Themes
I was really hoping that someone would put not only Ventus' theme in the article but that is sounds like a more complex variation of Roxas' theme.

and also how is it that some of you have these really awesome "template" thingies (I have no idea what they are called) that have a picture and a quote in a speech box? How can I make one? Under The Heavens 14:21, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

a question
Is that even confirmed yet? If it's not it shouldn't be on the page...

The Wikipedia says he is going voice Ven, but I dunno. I hope so.-- Ninja Sheik  20:04, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldnt mind...but has it been confirmed?! aah oh well. it believable i mean rly it just seems like all he has to do is make "The Roxas Voice" n and make it sound a lil younger. (i still havnt gotten over the fact that its Jesse Mccartney who voiced Roxas....but whatever) -Xero


 * Jesse McCartney just said the following on Twitter:
 * "Recording yet another Kingdom Hearts Game. All you Gamers eat your heart out! Man what a process tho. First recordin was in 2005 for game 1"


 * (Yes, I follow him on twitter, don't judge me T_T)
 * https://twitter.com/JesseMcCartney/status/6211849278


 * Anyway, since it's very unlikely that this would be for Roxas (They've already covered every moment of Roxas' existence from Birth to Reuinion) I think it's pretty safe to assume he's talking about Ven. I know it's not 100% confirmation, but its pretty strong evidence that Jesse is voicing Ventus. Which I'm excited about :D --Zephyrus11 20:57, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

YAHOO~! JESSE'S GOING TO VOICE FOR VEN!! YAY~!-- Ninja Sheik  21:18, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

The Armor
the part of the article about the armor needs to be edited. In the TGS 2009 trailer when he is riding his keyblade the armor is different colors, and recent scans show him wearing the same colored armor from the trailer. The cape has also been removed

Hmmmm...i was just wondering that. i HAVE seen Ven in 2 or 3 diffrnt armor colors. lets see...trailer one. scans...oh thats two. still. odd isnt it?

Appearances
That doesn't make sense why make Ventus first appear in Days I mean his first appearce is The Gathering. I mean the first appearce means where they first appear I mean like Stich first appeared in Lilo and Stich movie not Kingdom Hearts II. So Ventus should be The Gathering not Days. --Cococrash11 03:29, December 22, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

Then why is roxas 1st appearance deep dive :/ ?--Ataradesu 01:20, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * He did appear in CoM, actually appeared unlike Ven in Days who was basically just a hallucination on the part of another character.HarpieSiren 01:45, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

That sounds like a plan. HarpieSiren 01:48, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

You do mean BBS the game, right? Just wanna be 100% sure.HarpieSiren 01:56, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

^^;; That's what I thought.HarpieSiren 01:57, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

mode change
in the new jump festa 2010 trailer, the wingblade seem to develop from speed rave also, the swords (vertical rays of light) from roxas' final limit comes from speed rave, doesn't it

Xemnas?
OKay, how do we know that Xemnas sees Xion as Ven? I can't remember that being in Days. I remember Xigbar, but not Xemnas. Can someone clarify?-- 20:57, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

In the Secret reports. Xigbar comments that both of them see her as Ven, and I think Xemnas might mention it too.-- Lapis of the Night  21:36, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Xehanort'SPOILERS'
Does this mean that Ventus used to be Master Xehanort's apprentice before he created Vanitas.--Masgrande 03:40, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. It seems that Xehanort was putting Ven in a life-or-death situation, hoping he'd call on dark power, but nope. So he went ahead and made Vanitas.—Urutapu 03:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

but something bothers me, if vanitas killed ventus at the same time as he and he x-blade died, that means he was stronger than ventus. if he is ventus's darkness and yet he is stronger than him (wich is his light) so ventus originally had kind of a darkness afinity (like terra or riku) because his darkness was more powerfull than his light?--you and I will have to join together! 02:13, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia section needs some work
Several, if not all, of the entries in Ventus's trivia section aren't really trivia in-so-far as they are matter-of-fact statements made about the character as well as including unverified research and spoilers. Some of this information could be integrated into the article or disposed of.

Neverfate 17:56, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Keyblade Graveyard
Isn't Ventus's homeworld Keyblade Graveyard? I mean his awakeing's back ground is the Keyblade Graveyard. Beside Ventus just met Terra, and Aqua after Master Xehanort created Vanitas. So Land of Departure isn't Ventus's homeworld but the Keyblade Graveyard. --Cococrash11 07:55, January 23, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11

I think when it says Homeworld, it means the world they primarily live in, not the one they were born in. In that sence Land of Departure is his home. Dellcath 20:31, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ven wasn't even born in the Keyblade Graveyard, I don't know where you're getting that. Just because it's on his Awakening, doesn't mean it's his homeworld. I think we can all agree that we don't know enough about the Awakening to make those assumptions.--Nitrous X 22:26, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Master Xehanort didn't mention when or where he met Ventus. Not even mentions in Xehanort's Report it only says he met him like destiny. MX train Ventus in Keyblade Graveyard. He didn't even visit Land of Departure or Destiny Island before when his heart was shattered by MX. Also the Princess of Hearts' Belle, Snow White, Cinderlla, Aurora, Sora shows background of the sceneary of the homeworld. If you still aren't convined atleast put LOD in other residence since you guys aren't even sure which homeworld he's on. --Cococrash11 01:43, March 31, 2010 (UTC)Cococrash11
 * Nomura said he was from Destiny Islands. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:20, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * He did? Which interview was this? --Neumannz 03:00, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Ultimania, if I remember correctly. I'll try to find a link.
 * Nope, nevermind, I misread. It was him confirming Xehanort. Glorious  CHAOS!  04:41, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Theme
Here's the link to Ventus' Theme. Should it be included somewhere in the article? The Yoshiman 97 01:01, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I agree... but i myself don't know how :( P456 21:17, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how to do it either... The Yoshiman 97 22:46, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Me neither you should ask KrytenKoro--Xabryn 22:50, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Is there a reason
behind Ven wielding his Keyblade in reverse? It's pretty unique and makes him the only character in the series, aside from Saïx, to fight in this manor.XYZ. 21:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

"Our hearts are connected are my power!"
Where are you looking? I see "Our connected hearts are my power" on the page. --Neumannz 21:18, April 23, 2010 (UTC) [facepalm] Ugh, fail on my part.-- Lapis of the Night  21:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

If Vantias is the darkness from Ven's heart...
Does this not make Ventus' heart pure, and therefore, him a 'prince of heart'? Would be an interesting plot point later on, I think. Silvermistshadow 05:56, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly. The extraction of darkness from his heart seriously screwed up Ventus Kaihedgie 07:09, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree that Ventus could be a prince of heart, as every princess of heart is born with a pure heart, whereas Ven has had the darkness take out of his heart and was not born with a pure heart. Also, this topic is more suitable for a forum rather then Ventus's discussion page. 07:25, May 2, 2010 (UTC) Dan  jam

But in that same instance, Ventus' body acts just like a Princess of Heart when they lose their hearts, unlike Sora, who lost his body (which made Roxas) and became a Heartless. Ventus was more like Kairi, especially once the darkness was removed. We also have no idea what makes any girl (since as seen from Kairi and Alice) into a Princess of Heart, so if what makes them Princesses of Heart the removal of their darkness then it's completely plausible. KyrianXVII 19:50, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Ven & Roxas
I know that Sora's and Ven's hearts are connected, but I don't know how that justifies Roxas looking(and most likely sounding) the exact same as Ven. How is this possible? In simple terms PLEASE. 169.139.1.20 15:40, May 27, 2010 (UTC)DialgaMan, the master of Time
 * In the Interview in the BBS Ultimania with Nomura it's mentioned, that Ventus' heart formed Roxas' body when Sora stabbed himself with the Keyblade of People's Heart. So the heart was with Roxas all the time and that's why he looks almost as Ventus and has feelings even though he is a Nobody. ShardofTruth 15:50, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've got a question based on the Sora's Heartless page, where it says that Sora, beginning after he stabbed himself with the Keyblade of People's Hearts and continuing through Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and into the end of Roxas's Kingdom Hearts II had been a Heartless the entire time and that Kairi's heart recreated his body. So if Roxas had Ventus's heart, where was Sora's heart? KyrianXVII 17:29, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Inside Sora's recreated heart. Sora becomes a heartless, he had his heart in that pat but his body was made of darkness, when Kairi hugs him the body made of darkness becomes a body made of light and thisbody takes the shape of Sora just like Sora's original body took the shape of Ventus--Xabryn 17:47, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Roxas had the body. Sora just had the heart, and Kairi gave him some light so he could look human again. Glorious  CHAOS!  17:51, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

So Sora always had his heart, even though he was a Heartless? KyrianXVII 17:54, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

A heartless always have is original heart, but he don't have the original body and Soul--Xabryn 17:57, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Ohh...thanks, both of you. KyrianXVII 18:05, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Wait a sec
--74.240.76.53 16:39, June 17, 2010 (UTC)hold up one minute,IF roxas had vens heart and sora had his own heart,what the FRIG was the point of them joining again?was it because of soras memories?this confuses me greatly.......I mean if roxas had a heart even though he was a nobody wouldnt he notice this?well maybe not since he really wouldnt know how to notice.....,but still this theory negates the need for them to be in one body..... --LostTranslations74.240.76.53 16:39, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

It was Ven's heart, but still Sora's body that made Roxas. It was because of that and the fact that Sora's memories were rebuilt in Roxas that Roxas needed to return to Sora. KyrianXVII 19:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Jesse McCartney
Last time I checked, Ven's voice actor was going to be Jesse McCartney but now it is "to be announced?" What disproved Jesse McCartney to be Ven's voice actor? I thought he was confirmed. SeanWheeler 01:51, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * He never said who he was voicing, just that he'd finished the voicework. People just made an assumption and said it was so. - Eternal  Nothingness  XIII  01:57, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds a lot like his voice in the recent Gameplay trailers. --Lordrogersmith6485 05:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "He sounds like him" is in no way a valid source. We aren't putting McCartney as the VA until there's an explicit, written statement confirming him to be voicing Ventus. It's really just a formality, but it's one we're maintaining.05:51, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with LapisScarab. I did a voice test and Roxas and Ventus sound exactly alike, but it just wouldn't be right for us to put Jesse McCartney's name to it unless it's official. KyrianXVII 00:44, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Still wondering
Didn't Nomura say in an interview that there was a reason behind Ventus' unique way of holding his Keyblade? And that the reason would be explained in BbS? Did that ever happen?--ΧƳƵach. 22:44, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Fever pitch and the lock
...Yes... there is a picture on the article showing exactly that...18:31, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just some small things of interest..
I noticed that Xion is called a Sora replica numerous times in this article and that's just kind of wrong. She is called a replica of the keyblade wielder's nobody by Axel and her page even calls her a Roxas replica. So I know it's not that important but I think it should be fixed.

Also nothing really big here but one of the Xehanort's Report from BBS tell us that Ventus was originally going to be the body Xehanort stole. For that to happen he had to weaken Ven's heart by making him use darkness. But once Ven opted to have the crap beat out of him by neoshadows instead of use his darkness he realised Ven was a lost caused and changed his plan to use him in the X-blade project.

I mean it's not important or anything but I think it make good triva.--24.7.239.218 04:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Idea
Of course he was Roxas at that point. How can he not be himself?--BlueHawk1995 11:31, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I think KrytenKoro was saying that they hadn't named or clarified who he was when they did Deep Dive. Just like we didn't know who Terra, Ven and Aqua were until Birth By Sleep came out. He was Roxas, but nobody knew who he was or anything about him. KyrianXVII 13:09, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm saying that Nomura has point-blank said "originally he was just a cool-looking blond kid, but we eventually decided to combine him with "Roxas" into KHII." When Deep Dive was made, Nomura wasn't even planning on making a sequel to KH. Glorious  CHAOS!  15:18, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Roxas' rings in the Opening
Ventus wears Roxas' rings in the japanese opening. This was edited in the english opening. Is Ventus' Cg render based off Roxas' and they forgot to edit the rings in the japanese OP? 84.113.21.53 14:31, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Why does Ven use his keyblade in reverse grip?
I was wondering exactly why does Ven use his keyblade in reverse grip hes the ONLY key bearer to use their weapon in reverse!74.103.8.60 20:12, September 11, 2010 (UTC)13 keyblades

Cononically, there's no explaination, but it's probably just a habit of Ven's.20:15, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah your probly right.74.103.8.60 15:25, September 12, 2010 (UTC)13Keyblades

What does it matter, I fight with a style similar to Ven's and as a kid I was one of the best out of all my friends. I'd be terrible now for the sheer fact that the last time I picked up a sword was when I turned 16. That was over 5 years ago.76.108.136.28 22:06, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ventus's body
What happenend to Ventus's body after that he was placed in the Chambers of Waking ? His heart is by Sora, but where is Ventus's body? 13:31, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ok Ok, I get it. 16:17, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

What confuses me actually more about Ventus' fate is why he even fell comatose after losing his heart and that Aqua then could carry him around. When Ven defeated Vanitas for the final time his heart should be complete again (he gained back the 'dark parts' which were stolen to form Vanitas) so his heart shouldn't be pure light anymore. So why wasn't a heartless and Nobody created? Even if Ven has probably the smallest amount of darkness in his heart we have seen so far in any male in the series...after Vanitas destruction he should have his little darkness back and therefore don't go comatose like a princess of heart. 93.223.141.155 11:33, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but wait a moment, i know he 'lost' his heart because of the x-blade, but it can't be 'destroyed' since his heart later found refuge inside of Sora's heart, something that is destroyed can't roam through the universe and then contact another heart. Ventus should have his darkness back after the final defeat of Vanitas since he completed/repaired his own heart (signified by his awakening station changing form). His now again completed heart was however immediately lost after cuz Aqua smashed the x-blade. Well, that he didn't create a heartless and nobody cuz his heart wasn't overcome by darkness sounds quite reasonable. Does this mean that when an existence loses it's heart it doesn't necessarily mean always the creation of an heartless? Only if the lost heart is overcome by darkness it becomes a heartless and otherwise it goes directly back to Kingdom Hearts? Man...the overall story is getting really somewhat confusing...93.223.186.47 11:01, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Article Spoilers
Is it just me or does this article have an unusually large amount of spoilers outside of its spoiler tags? ◄ Θάνατος ►  02:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * The spoiler tags cover the entire page. It's you. maggosh 02:31, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Epic Fail. Wow. I'm stupid. ◄ Θάνατος ►  02:35, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Why Don't They See It?

 * At the exact same time as Roxas was out there, Namine was diddling with Sora's memories, which means both Sora's head and every memory related to Sora got mixed up.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  18:51, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Mickey ever saw Roxas. And when they're looking at that picture, Sora interrupts Goofy and says "this is Roxas", so who knows what they remember. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  18:58, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I can understand why it seems odd Mickey doesn't even somewhat recognize Ven in Roxas. Mickey seemed to care a lot about Ven in BBS during the end of Aqua's scenario and with all of them suddenly disappearing, you'd think Mickey would remember them or at least their basic appearance, so it does seem a little far fetched the idea of Mickey just not recognizing him in all those years, considering he mentions in Re:Coded both Ven and Terra. Its similar with Xehanort, Mickey doesn't remember Xehanort despite being trained by Yen Sid, fighting his apprentice, talking to Yen Sid several times about them, and seeing his many incarnations at once. He didn't even remember Xehanort in the flashback with Ansem the Wise, you'd think Aqua or Yen Sid would've mentioned something, even off-screen or otherwise Mickey's left pretty much in the dark for most of the Kingdom Hearts universe.


 * Namine. Diddled. Sora. That's the explanation.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  03:50, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Heheh, "diddled".

Seriously, though, not everyone had been affected, right? The only people who met Ven who also actually met Roxas were Phil, Tinker Bell, Pete, and Organization members I-VIII. I can understand how Phil and Pete might be affected, and Tinker Bell has no attention span anyway, but why did, say, Axel not recognize him--especially before Namine did her business? -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  04:10, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Whoever has seen him will probably notice. Xigbar remembers Ven AND Roxas, which is evident during his conversation with Sora in TWTNW. But yes, it is weird that NOBODY else remembers him. But in the Saix article (I'm not fucked to put those things above the "i" every time) it states that he thinks that friendship between nobodies is possible, as long as they have memories to fall back on. This may be why Axel became friends with Roxas so fast, it may be subconscious though, as he didn't really know Ven that well. Also, about the Phil and Pete are not very bright to begin with though. LiLLiPaDDy  ~True tears are never seen, only hidden~  13:02, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

I thought I might as well put in what I think: As far as I know Mickey only sees the Data Roxas in Coded and after that he rushes to Yen Sid saying that he's found out where Ven's heart is. Donald and Goofy only really met Ven in passing and have only seen a picture of Roxas so they might not have made a connection or forgot what Ven looks like or both, Axel befriends Roxas in the blink of an eye so even if he forgot about Ven, Ven might have had an influence over Axel's subconscience. Saix, well we never really know what goes through his mind other than wanting to have his heart back, so I really can't say as to him. Dilan, Aeleus, Even, and Ienzo only meet him for about a second so they most likely forgot about him. Finally Xemnas most likely remembers him because of his past with him and we know Xigbar remembers him which is why I made the assumption about Xemnas but then again with the exception of Xigbar.LightoftheDarkness 23:51, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Arkward cutscene
In the cutscene in which Ven takes out the wooden Keyblade Terra gave him, where the hell was he keeping that thing?! This may sound immature, but it appears as if he pulls it out of his... yeah... So if anyone can explain where the hell the kept it to me, it would be much appreciated. LiLLiPaDDy  ~True tears are never seen, only hidden~  12:55, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

dude.......... It could be from his side pocket or somewhere

Exactly how deep do you think a pocket is? That would require the pocket to go down further than his knee, and past half of his shin. Honestly, I just think that it was an epic fail design choice that was overlooked. It's kinda like when the characters pull ice cream out of no where, it's not like they'd put THAT in their pocket. LiLLiPaDDy  ~True tears are never seen, only hidden~  13:55, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

it's a game dude, anything can happen. Besides it's common to have that incident in RPG games, for example: FF. Where do you think they keep all their equipments?

1. Chihuahuaman relax ffs. 2. There's a difference between it happening in the gameplay and it happening in a cutscene, and therefore being considered part of the story. 3. No way did he summon it. 4. I'm not a massive KH fan, so I assumed there was something I didn't know about from a book or something. 5. I'm a girl 6. Chihuahuaman, you must have a sad life then. LiLLiPaDDy  ~True tears are never seen, only hidden~  20:52, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

change
can you change coded to Re:coded
 * No. Stop asking. maggosh 19:59, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Problems with trivia
i dont see why and they don't even try to explain themselves, but i added a trivial fact. Ven is the only one in birth by sleep who met all 6 apprentices of ansem the wise. Aeleus, Dilan (gaurds) ienzo and Vexen (scientists) and Braig in the keyblade graveyard and of course xehanort, but before he became his apprentice.

If you disagree, please add your reasoning in your edits.Bijinder 00 01:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

The trivia you added stated "Ven is the only character that has met all 6 of Ansem the Wise's Apprentices", this is not true because a)while he has met MX and Terra seperately, he has never met Xehanort, who is considered to be a seperate character, and B) because of course Ansem the Wise has met all 6 of them-- 01:17, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

THey're the same person with different circumstances, so I'll change that. Despite that, it was clearly obvious the trivia was referring to gameplay-wise not circumstantial.Bijinder 00 01:23, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which means it's pretty stupid to mention at all. If it's not true all the way, and it's not unique, then it's like saying "Water is the only thing that's blue, except really its mostly transparent and there are a lot of other things that are blue."(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  01:27, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

But it is true, but story and gameplay. only you guys tend to focus on the exceptions. Ventus out of the three protagonist, Aqua and Terra was the only one who met all of Ansem the wise's apprentices. And trivia even comes in when something is controversial, so something not true all the way can be entered in the trivia section.Bijinder 00 01:33, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that's the rule on other wikis, but it sure aint the rule here. 01:34, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

You're not even speaking for this wiki, are you? Point is, i edited so it would be more acceptable to you guys, and even if it isn't and you guys understood what i meant, or another editor meant, you have to find a way to work around it, not just bluntly revert without reasoning. this one was easily avoidable, it was true, and it was trivia-worthy. the only problem was wording, and i do beleive some of you, guys were "playing dumb", because it was easy to understand the fact, just not worded rightBijinder 00 01:40, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Are you guys making this up? Donald and goofy encountered both aqua and ven. Hades encountered both terra and aqua. Plus fairy Godmother is a disney original, not a kh original, it's not the same. Disney is more circumstantial depending on how relevant the situation was. Ventus meeting the 5 apprentice was important, especially with braig and even. Think about this is the same as ventus being the only to see vanitas face, except for Master xehanort also being one.

As for the edit summaries, i as talking about the initial revertBijinder 00 01:56, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is better, because they highly discourage, "pointy" remarks. I'm saying Disney is circumstantial. Depending on how relevant it was in the series. Fairy Godmother, barely plays a role in BBS, and considering each went there separate ways, i would say that there were plenty of characters to do such thing. Whats the difference between one disney character and a group of kh originals? that much is what i say.

You're all think shallowly, you're not looking at it deeper, you give examples that don't even fit to this exact circumstance. For example, Sora was the one and only protagonist in the series, anyone who was defeated in kh2 would have to be sora. And please dont make some smart-mouth remark such "what about riku and roxas". you get the idea i'm trying to tell you.

AS for this particular situation, Ventus met ALL 5. Aqua and Terra has met 1 in particular, Braig. In fact that could be a trivia fact on his page. "Braig is the only apprentice to meet all 3 protagonist in birth by sleep". But beside the point, Ventus met all of them, that's a worthy trivial fact, he didn't just meet one. Out of the 3, terra and aqua, ventus met them. Sure, a few disney characters were left out, but again, i say it depends on how relevant they were. the same applies to kh too, such as "Riku is the only one out of the trio to not meet hayner pence and ollette" now that's something that isn't note worthy, because those characters barely played any role, and only met sora and kairi for a brief moment. Unlike ventus, ventus left an impression on all 5. and their meeting was hinted in BBS, and days.Bijinder 00 02:13, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly, the story doesn't state, ventus was the only one, and again, you're jumping the gun without properly thinking. Ont of the three protagonist, ventus was the only one, it was just a description problem, not a factual one. Clearly, it's true, and wont be highlighted anywhere else, and it is trivia. And you guys have added speculation on the trivia sections in the past, and are presently left untouched. You guys are doing "playing dirty" discussion. I mention one fact, when circumstances change, you still stick to the first one to prove your point, and when someone does make a point, yo water it down to something less worthy, and say it as such.Bijinder 00 02:27, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Also some, unnecessary commas. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  02:41, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

see what did i say about playing dirty?

So if it's taken account, then i suppose every piece of trivia related to them should be added? Again, you guys say it's not noteworthy, because you can do that to any character, but each of them have different circumstances like I've said before. And again like I've said before, you guys have even less noteworthy trivia on other articles, this one seems legit, but you're downgrading it more than what it actually is, because you don't dare to look deeper into it.

Aqua's has almost the exact same situation, but mentioning different characters and more detail.Bijinder 00 02:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * BUt then again, this one doesn't fit. and there is a big difference from mentioning it on trivia, and implying it on the story. But i personally, think you guys twisted trivia, like chitalian said, you guys, intentionally work differntly, i suggest you guys get closer to . But it does get irritating, when you see conflict of interest.


 * Scarab removed one obvious one, but didn't remove the one that is practically the same as this one. Aqua meeting Sora Riku and Kairi, due to terra only meeting riku and ventus vaguely meeting Sora a few times.Bijinder 00 02:54, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

sigh.....i keep trying to post it, but too much edit conflicts, disrupt it. like I've said i changed it to make it have no technicalities, without the word "except" in it. Either way, you know theres a difference between implying it and directly saying it. for one, in order to actually imply that trivia, you would have to read all 3, not just one page. Aqua met sora, riku and kairi, does it say she was the only one to meet all3 from the 3 protagonist? no, you would have to read terra and ven's too. thats the difference, a big difference, and i'm pretty sure you saw this coming.Bijinder 00 03:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Don't flatter yourself, not everyone reads every little detail in the wiki's. Readers aren't stupid, but they most certainly aren't always ready to read everything this wiki has to offer. And the trivial fact, will not be remembered so easily. the only ones who know are the ones who played it, but not everyone on the wiki has played the game. The implication is far more vague and much more difficult to detect.Bijinder 00 03:17, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

But thats not the point in trivia. we don't post things people are going to look for. we post what doesn't fit in exactly to the story, and technically it's not in the story. It's implying it by with 3 others.Bijinder 00 03:31, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

You know what i meant. If you didn't, well....i guess it wont matter how i judge you then.Bijinder 00 03:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * EDIT CONFLICT: Sure, what you meant is "somewhere it should say that Aqua's the only one who meets, etcetera", but that's the last signnificant part of the whole thing. It is not our resposibility to point out the implications of every little point of the story, only the important ones; this does not qualify.
 * @MAggosh: yeah, pretty much. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  03:46, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

i'm gonna ignorr, krytenkoro due to him being the real troll, @LapisScarab, it's obvious, don't make it seem like you can't understand it. What i'm saying is super simple, and if you don't understand, you would've asked something by now, which you haven't. lets say i want to learn something about ventus, not directly on storyline, not something properly explained. i got to trivia section, and there it is. I dont know "ventus met all 5 apprentices" and not everyone (certainly not most) will be reading all 3 stories to find something they didn't know. thats the difference, story implies and a vague implication. And not everyone will be looking for it because they won't know what they're looking for exactly. thats the difference between the story section and the trivia section. big difference. don't understand? ask questions.

@Neumannz, the last significant part in the story section. not in the trivia section, anything can go n there as long as it's trivia relating to the character. but then again, you guys change opinion. first you say not relevant, but then switch to already explained in the story which both controversial.Bijinder 00 03:58, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...Can you rewrite that? -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  04:01, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha...no, I was being deadly serious. Anyone who wants to take things from the existing sections and splooge them over a "trivia" section is essentially a vandal. A truly perfect wiki, or tome of any kind, has no trivia sections. To be in the trivia section, something must be truly important and notable, but totally incompatible with the other sections. That's our policy, and always has been - no amount of calling the editors names is going to change that.
 * Seriously though, you're saying you "want to know what Ventus did", but it's too hard to browse the section that is literally "things Ventus did"? That pretty well explains how you got to the end of the article without finding this thing out.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:05, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

no, that's not what i'm trying to say krytenkoro. looking for things that are implied, but too difficult, because they're not exactly implied, just something people can know about if you really looked for it.

trivia section can have anything as long as it's trivia and doesn't fit in directly into other sections, you guys are indecisive with your reasoning against it, first it's wasn't true, now it has exceptions in it, then you guys say it's not important enough while the other says it's mentioned in the plot (not really).Bijinder 00 04:10, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Ventus is the only character whose name starts with "Ven"".
 * That is a true thing that has no qualifiers, and is completely unique. In every way, it is superior to what you are trying to add. It is, however, absolutely redundant to the article, and truly worthless and mind-numbing. Your argument, however, says that it should be in the trivia section.
 * Ventus meeting five of the six apprentices is not implied, it is outright stated. It's also reiterated on the story sections in each apprentice's article.
 * Our reasoning has been completely consistent - we don't allow qualifiers, we don't allow non-unique trivia, and we don't allow meaningless trivia. These are all policy on this wiki, and are followed as best as we can without outright banning new editors.
 * "First it wasn't true" - because it wasn't. You said Ventus met Apprentice Xehanort, which is a patent lie.
 * "Now it has exceptions in it" - because it always has - Ansem, Xehanort, Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus, and Ienzo, at the least, met all of these same people, and since you are relying on cutscenes for Ventus meeting them, any other cutscene or story-bit is fair game as well.
 * "It's not important enough" - it really isn't. Trivia notes should be truly exceptional, like the Roxas mural which showed him as a 20-year old, and was used as prominent advertising for Days.
 * "It's mentioned in the plot" - It is. It's just mentioned in a way that assumes that the reader can, well, read. I'm not making fun of small children or foreign readers here, but if you can't read more than a paragraph of English, this wiki isn't the place for you.
 * Again, I bring back my water example: "Water is the only thing that's blue, except it's mostly transparent and tons of other things are blue." This analogy fits exactly to the trivia note you are trying to add.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:21, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Like i've said before, theres a difference, a clear as day, right in your face difference. the story will not tell you ventus was the only one out of the 3 to meet ansem the wises's apprentice. you can't tell the difference between "ventus met all 5 of ansem the wises's apprentices" from "ventus was the only one out of the 3 protagonist to meet all 5 protagonist"?

you guys state policy, but no link? i don't think you have a written policy. And, although it fits, this isn't a wiki about water, so the circumstances change, plus this is more story-driven, than factual. who represents water and who is blue? if it fits, then please elaborate a little better.

And yes, you were indecisive because your reasoning contradict another. and there is no technicality, it's just that it was vague, and i didn't explain it right. when i did, that's when you started to mention all this other stuffBijinder 00 04:34, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not relevant to Ventus, honestly. He doesn't care that he's the only one who met five out of the six of them. On their pages, it mentions the one's they met, so there's that. It's also a textbook example of negative information - instead of presenting pure facts, it interpolates from "what wasn't", introducing tidbits that, in the end, are not important.
 * We have Template:Trivia. We have this, this, and the Manual of Style
 * It is a wiki about Water, actually.
 * "Water" is Ventus, "Blue" is "met the five protagonists", "is actually transparent" is the fact that Master Xehanort is a totally different, though to be fair spiritually related character.
 * I think you're confusing "you are so wrong that there are a multitude of blatant faults with your claim" for "we keep changing our mind when you prove our criticisms wrong, oh sublime master."(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:43, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

reading isn't hard in general, but reading everything an article has to offer is different. again, although people can and some people will, not everyone and certainly not most non-wikia users read everything. Again, i changed it so there weren't technicalities like Xehanort, and Xehanort (Ansem the wise's apprentice) isn't someone different from Master Xehanort and/or Terra. And no, the idea isn't to go and read something you already know or took account of. Though, i can see why trivia isn't acceptable, in wikipedia, you guys will have to come to terms with it.Like i said, give link to your policy (if you really have one). And edit it, so you can be more strict about things.Bijinder 00 16:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * ARGH.
 * "We have Template:Trivia. We have this, this, and the Manual of Style"
 * And again, if you have to qualify it to remove technicalities, THEN IT'S NO GOOD.
 * WE DON'T HAVE TO COME TO TERM WITH ANYBODY BUT THIS WIKI, BY ITSELF.
 * If people don't care enough to read the page, then they don't care that Ven is the only one that meats the 5 apprentices. Your trivia is just that inconsequential.
 * Why don't you try reading carefully, so we can stop having to repeat ourselves? -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  16:49, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not' wikipedia for Pete's sake.

Ok, I'm now positive, you guys, are just making this up. For one, you guys have no official policy. you brought to forums, a trivia section that has barely anything in it, and Manual of Style, i've read it before. ANd what do you mean "If I remove the technicalities, then it's not good" that was the point of one your arguments. that was one oyur main points. NOw you're saying if i made it so there weren't technicalities, then that's also a reason why it's no good? And, I never said this was wikipedia. Are you even reading everything right? You guys have been inconsistent, from the beginning. why don't you make a real policy section. a guideline isn't a policy, and neither are those other sectionsBijinder 00 16:58, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Argh. You are not removing technicalities. There is no way you can remove technicalities. You are just pointing them out. They are still there. Hence, you didn't fix anything. If there are exceptions, then there's no uniqueness, then the trivia is still a bad trivia. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  17:05, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * ANd why is that? Why is there no way, that i can't remove technicalities. And again, there definitively is unique, just not well-written in the first place, and wasn't properly explained.Bijinder 00 17:14, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Can you just except the fct that you lost this battle 12 hours ago and move on with your life, it's not that big of a deal-- 17:28, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * i only lost in numbers, not within reasoning. still, i suggest you make a policy. not mention a non-existent one.Bijinder 00 17:33, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * EDIT CONFLICT: True, if you had, unecessary comma, written it better, it would have had a better chance of going unnoticed (though not by much).
 * But by having to add limitations and exceptions, you make the item contrived and forced. Let's say it would have been significant if Ven had been the only one to meet all of Ansem's apprentices. The fact that he didn't meet Xehanort and the fact that Terra and Aqua also met Braig make it untrue. Making it instead that Ven was the only one to meet Dilan, Aeleus, Even and Ienzo makes it far less significant, notable, and interesting.
 * But, you say, he was the only one to meet all five. That's as if you said, "Aqua is the only protagonist to meet both Jaq and the Fairy Godmother." It's true, and it's even well written, but it's contrived, silly, and purile. -- Neumannz ,  The Dark Falcon  17:39, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you even understood the trivia. How does that disprove it? That's like saying "I met all 5 characters, but it's not true because one or two other people met only one of them". Again, it would depend on the relevance in plot. there's a big difference between 5 ansem the wise apprentices (characters prominent in kh timeline that were relevant during BBS time) then Jaq and Fairy Godmother (characters, not needed to know about during the events of BBS). But then again, you guys don't want trivia, although this is a legit one, you guys wont have it for your preference in relevance.Bijinder 00 17:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bijinder - if you try to remove the technicalities from your bit, it becomes false. If you add the technicalities, it becomes non-unique. Either of these mean that the trivia is not acceptable.
 * Also, the Manual of Style is official, written policy, and it states everything we've been saying here.
 * Community consensus arrived at through forums, or even talk pages, is official policy. We don't have to draft a constitution to create rules. This is a wiki - so long as the community at large agrees on a policy, it is official.
 * No, you lost in reasoning. We have provided multiple reasons why the trivia bit is moronic, contradictory, and useless, and have even provided links to written policy and community consensus. Your refusal to accept the face that you are blatantly wrong is on no-one's hands but your own.
 * Let me just state this here, since apparently authority is needed here - the trivia will not be placed. No change that you make to it will make it acceptable. Nothing you say or do will change this decision. End of story.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  17:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

not really, what i meant to say is, that i rewrite it so there is no technicality.Bijinder 00 17:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

When you rewrite it you're not removing technicalities you're hiding them. They're still there. And if you make it a separate fact on it's own that separate fact isn't remarkable enough to be in the Trivia section. -- 20:14, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

that's not true, you probably didn't even read it yourself. Out of the three protagonist, (terra, ven, aqua) Ventus was the only one who met all 5 apprentices. no technicality, no nothing. and trivia doesn't need to be remarkable.Bijinder 00 20:24, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course it has to be remarkable, otherwise it could be anything, like "Terra is the tallest protagonist in the series." Your trivia is straight out unremarkable. Which is to say, there's no point in making a remark about it. There is nothing remarkable in Ventus being the only one to meet all five of those people. You can say any character was the only one to meet a specific set of people (e.g., Aqua was the only one who encountered both Prince Philip and Maleficent), but if that set is arbitrary--as it is here, since you are discounting Xehanort, who Ven didn't meet, and including Braig, who everyone met--then it has no meaning. -- 21:19, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

if one character met a complete set, while the other two didn't, then that would be worthy. But the examples you are giving are incomplete sets.Bijinder 00 23:42, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't see why. "People who have spent lots of time in Maleficent's Castle" is as significant as "five out of the seven people who spend lots of time within Hollow Bastion, but only during KH BbS because after that Maleficent moves in", if not more so.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  23:51, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, why? i didn't quite understood that. a castle, is a place, a world, and all of them were in that world. sure not all of them were in the same place and some places were locked. But i think cutscene-wise, it was relevant. that and what i really wanted to put was "Out of three protagonist, Ventus was the one who met most of the organization 13's somebodies. Xehanort (yeah, same person, different memories, no memories, hinted in re:coded secret ending), Aeleus, Dilan, Even, Ienzo, Braig, Lea, and Isa. Quite a large number, and i would say it's more significant, then three or two people that was a constant pattern in the scenarios. ansem the wise apprentice was a large group, from one world.Bijinder 00 01:11, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Then why didn't you put that before? It makes more sense, but you still have to use "most of," which still counts as a technicality. Virtually any way you put this still will have too many flaws to put on the page. RoxasNobody

He knows 1-8, and vaguely 13 somebody. It was easier to use ansem apprentices, because it was more implied, but it seemed no one wanted to think it through. but they still probably think it's not necessary.Bijinder 00 05:40, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

IDk, it could be possible, to add this version, considering roxasnobody thought it could be worthy, just the technicality. So if we word it right, then it could make it in.144.90.1.18 01:36, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Facepalm, causes dumbness. Think about it, he was. Except some are using the xehanort excuse, but in terms of who's who with kh, it's pretty easy to distinguish that Xehanort and Xehanort the apprentice are pretty much the same person, despite terra and eraqus inside him, he still has control over it. same person, different appearance.Bijinder 00 02:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's like saying Mysterious Tower and Yen Sid's Tower are different worlds. Did Xehanort the Apprentice get his own journal entry in BBS? If he didn't then it's flawed. They are the same person and re:coded condones to it. the only difference is that he has no memories of his past. Though i will admit, Terra-Xehanort and Master Xehanort are different because Terra was still fighting within, so both people controlling the same body would cause him to be called Terra-Xehanort, same with Ventus-Vanitas. But as for Xehanort the Apprentice, i'm pretty positive he didn't get a journal entry in BBS considering he only appeared in the secret ending as an apprentice. despite that, Ventus was the only one to meet all 6.Bijinder 00 02:17, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Then if it was impossible to mention, then i think it wasn't worth mentioning. (that and i lend my game out, i already beat aqua and ven's story, but i don't like terra's so I'm letting my friend play it). Condone = excuses it right? Mysterious Tower, and Yen Sid's tower, what are they both referring to specifically? the same tower....same thing, different circumstances. similar to Xehanort. But at the moment, I'm trying to figure out how to add it in (including Lea and Isa) considering ven has a strong connection to org.13 and Roxas was a big link to them.Bijinder 00 02:45, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Look, as a rule of thumb, if you really have to work so hard to make a piece trivia be correct, significant, and policy-compliant, than it's probably not a good piece of trivia to begin with. It's really not worth all this trouble. Just let it go. -- 02:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Either way, inside the universe, the worlds are the same, and although part of twilight town, the world map showed it as a "moon" if you know what i mean. As for trivia, what i'm trying to do is explain the connection between Ventus and Org.13 through their somebodies. I think that's trivia worthy.Bijinder 00 03:00, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

@Scarab, i'm trying to put in the connection given to us in BBS, not the complex connection given throughout the series. And as for re:coded secret ending, it states, now that Xehanort's heartless and nobody are gone, his true self would appear. I think that's a good reason why it's there. And again, inside the universe of Kingdom hearts series, both mysterious tower, and yen sid's tower are the same place, but with different names.

other, guy you're hilarious, but i can't take you seriously. there is no respectful way of saying "shut up"Bijinder 00 03:20, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Then how about this, you guys make an official policy that helps you and me out, so next time a new wiki editor is out there thinking he's right, This will compile every unwritten rule out there official, and help to put it in one link. And not just for trivia, but for other things too.Bijinder 00 03:25, December 9, 2010 (UTC)




 * NO, no, no Lapis. those are conversations that happen to meet a consensus by a certain ammount of people. So if i found a group of people who agreed with me, then will that be policy too? Or does it take a certain authority to do that? See...that's where the line isn't drawn. the problem with those, someone can just argue for days on those sections rather than making it a real official policy. think about it. I've read it, but they don't look like a policy at all, it' not very convincing and looks like an amateur way of making rules. I'm talking about a page of collected consensus, (again not just about trivia) that you guys already established. Instead of linking to various other.


 * Also, the trivia was barely touched on one, and had two people talking in it, the other had a moderate conversation, while the other usage one, didn't really help at all in this situation.Bijinder 00 03:42, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

it's like you guys ignore reasoning whenever it suits you. i don't think you even know what policy means. Either, way i suggest you make an official policy, not a guideline to usage (which didn't help) or forum conversations that are taken as policy. I mean literally, make a page dedicated for Rules on here. Not scatter them. At the moment, we're off topic, but for a good cause, and it seems you guys want it to be "no" because it's coming from meBijinder 00 03:59, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

But it's not exactly in there. you ,e, and everyone here knows there's a difference between the trivia i mention and the plot in there. Both state different things, but that's not the point. Manual of Style, is more like a format on how things should be placed, but you don't have a general rule for forums and, what your standards are. These guys keep saying, they gave me the link, but i know they didn't even look at the title themselves. They linked me to forums, and a usage section that doesn't even cover it. The idea is to have one official page, so that it's clean enough to look at, easy to look up without some user pointing it out when you make a mistake.

And now, some of these guys aren't even paying attention. they just say whatever.04:19, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Manual of Style, is more like a guide onto making an article. I'm talking about policy against some other actions.Bijinder 00 04:27, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a policy that if you spam talk pages, you can get warnings and eventually blocked...is that the policy you're looking for?(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:30, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lulz, but I agree with Kryten and LA. Also, care to elaborate on these so called "other actions"? 04:32, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay.

Not exactly. i'm saying, if there was an actual policy page, then yes. i would be more oblige to do things the way, the wiki wants, not the way editors want. no i'm not spamming. Driven away, best editors? maybe, but then again, Wiki have been known for misunderstandings due to this exact problem. And you admitted, the problem isn't the idea of a policy page, but who's idea it's coming from.Bijinder 00 05:15, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) We do not allow rules-lawyering here. We have policy on the manual of style, and we have general formatting that we, as a community, agree on. We all know that you want some "Constitution of the Wiki" so that you can try and find some snippet that you can twist to try and force the trivia, and it's not going to work.
 * 2) The consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of "the trivia's not fucking being put there", and multiple reasons, many of which stem from policy, have been given as to why the trivia point should not be there.
 * 3) You are spamming this page. If you continue to post on this topic (or the Keyblade Armor discussion), you will receive an official warning, which can lead to a block or ban.
 * 4) You have personally driven away one of our best editors with your belligerent attitude, and you have pretty much lost all good faith on this wiki. I think it's fair to say that no one is willing to oblige you on anything.
 * 5) If you desire to contribute to this wiki at all, I personally suggest you choose one of the simple cleanup projects (like filling in the Card: articles), and wait until the community isn't out for your blood to even attempt a discussion on any other topic.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:40, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

About the first paragraph

 * The Lead is meant to summarize the topic, so some redundancy is to be expected. If you want to post a draft on the talk page for discussion, then by all means do so.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  04:40, December 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nomura did say that Sora became a Keyblade wielder due to touching Ventus's heart; however, the Kingdom Key he later gains is his own, while his second Keyblade is Ventus's. Basically, joining with Ventus did two things.
 * There's no such thing as an "awakening station". There are Stations of the "Dive to the Heart", but "awakening" is just a name for the "Station of Awakening", one of the pillars in Roxas's Dive to the Heart.
 * "is a Y before X becomes one" is very awkward wording.
 * The coverage of his connection to Sora does best as one paragraph.
 * Your version of the Sora coverage has a run-on sentence punctuated with improper commas.
 * Ventus's heart, appearance, and Keyblade specifically went to Roxas while he was in existence.
 * The name meaning thing has really nothing to do with his connection to Sora, plot-wise, so putting it there doesn't make much sense.
 * "even though they only ever meet through their hearts" doesn't seem necessary here, especially since that kind of thing is rife throughout the series anyway.

If there are specific factual or grammatical errors you'd like to bring up, please do, but because there are a multitude of factual and grammatical errors in the current version (and I can't find any in mine), I'm reverting it again.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  16:34, December 9, 2010 (UTC)