Talk:Realm of Darkness

Claims to be sourced
Note: Please verify and move to page once cited.
 * "Anyone who has become strongly attuned to Darkness eventually develops amber eyes and pointed ears. This is seen in Xehanort, his Heartless and Nobody, Ansem the Wise, Braig and his Nobody, and Saïx."
 * I believe Nomura has said that Braig has these because of his relationship with Xehanort...although that doesn't rule out that the base mechanic is darkness, doesn't explain why Xehanort would waste time fiddling with eyes and ears, doesn't explain Ventus and Vanitas not having these features, and doesn't explain Ansem having them. Anyway, can someone provide the quote from the interview (I believe in BbS Ultimania) and if possible, the original Japanese line? There is a plethora of poorly translated material that we get from some of these sources (remember Two Across and 13 Mushroom?), and I'd like to be able to look at the thing myself.
 * Also, if anyone can find other mentions of eyes and ears in the ultimanias and interviews, we should take a look at those too. 21:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Objection withdrawn. KH3D makes it clear why this is, although I'm still questioning why Ansem has them. 00:21, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Saix
"After being saved from Saïx's Heartless by..."

Since Saix is a Nobody, this sentence is incorrect, right? This reads he is a Nobody's Heartless, which isn't technically possible. Shouldn't just read "Saix"? 203.205.121.65 14:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It just means the Heartless that he summoned to attack them. Servantroxas 21:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

wait, if every realm has a keyblade master, than who is it for the realm of darkness?Rock2060 23:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Mickey.The MotherF*!#%&@ article says so

Ansem
Ansem was never trapped here. He was trapped in the Realm of Nothingness. Check http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Ansem_Report if you don't believe me. Whoever's reverting my edits should know that there is no need.--68.193.149.112 02:51, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Drop it, he used the corridors for travel. He wasn't trapped there.  TNÉ  En avant Bravo ! 03:05, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * You know, I could've sworn it said that Xehanort and the other 5 apprentices banished him to the Realm of Nothingness. To keep his sanity, he began to write the Reports. He later managed to escape the realm, becoming "one of the dark" via his alias, DiZ. -

Yea, it does, I'm glad we agree. That's what I've been saying. So that entire paragraph isn't really applicable. That's why I'm deleting it.--68.193.149.112 17:43, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Realm of Darkness's Geography
Would it perhaps be beneficial to include a physical description or geography for the Realm of Darkness? You see what it looks like in Kingdom Hearts's ending, Final Mix's new cutscene with Riku there, the scenes with the Dark Margin, and especially since it is able to be traversed during the secret episode, otherwise known as Fragmentary Passage. Would this many appearance not be viable enough to include a description of what the Realm of Darkness actually looks like?- Ganondorf Undurin Dragmire 03:17, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

They also give a veiw of it at the end of Birth by Sleep. giving another look into the Darkness. The physicality of the Dark would be most important 96.4.63.22 12:27, February 11, 2011 (UTC)Okirxn, The Metalic Phantom

The flaws in the 'Realm of Darkness' entry
The Corridors of Darkness

They are NOT really a part of the Realm of Darkness, seeing that the article is incorrect in stating that the realm is "made up of Darkness in people in every world", for, were that so, Aqua in the final scene of BbS would be within every person within the World, meaning, by forcing the light in her to act, she could enter anyones heart via the dark and end the conflict that is present in the entire series. The realm itself is a reflected version of the Realm of Light. The Darkness leaks into the Light, and, keeping with the mirror analogy, the Light slips into the Darkness. In reality, the Corridors are door to the Lanes Between, accessed by Darkness rather than a Keyblade. In Kingdom Hearts II When Sora and company enter the Dark Corridor to get to the World that Never Was, they fight alongside Axel in a space between worlds known as "Betwixt and Between", which looks very similar to the space the first keyblade wielders used, with the addition of the Nobody symbol walls.

Vanitas
The article says that those who spend too much time in darkness, their eyes turn amber and their skin darkens. Is this also true for Vanitas, as he has amber eyes? Or are his eyes just a character trait?

"A fragmentary passage" Areas
I have a Japanese roommate. I just asked him to translate for me the names of the three rooms that the player can go through in "A fragmentary passage", and he kindly did so as best as he could given the shoddy screenshotlets I took of some YouTube videos. He was able to determine that, first, the Japanese title of the world is "Dark World" (I bet this wouldn't be too bad to translate into "Realm of Darkness", but then they don't stick "Realm of Light" onto everything in the games, so...*shrug*), and second, the naming of the three rooms was a pretty general method: It's in a hierarchy.

Strangely, however, the rooms' names are in a different order than they are visited, if one thinks logically. (Either that, or I arranged them wrong on the Paint file I used to put them in...) If all is right, then essentially, in order, these are the (essential) names of the three rooms that are visited in "A fragmentary passage", in order:


 * 1) Dark World: Middle Tier
 * 2) Dark World: Bottom Tier
 * 3) Dark World: Top Tier

(Tiers ARE the "stages" of a hierarchy, right?)

The name of the room the boss is fought in is...well, I have no clue; I wonder whether the names of places such as "Memory's Contortion" are fan-made or what...Anyway, I can upload the .png file I have the three on (with my notes) if someone wants to take another look and see if there's something wrong. Regardless, someone should really at least put the descriptions of the three rooms into the article. I would, but 1) I don't have the game, and 2) I've got a paper to write! FT 20:47, 3 March 2011 (EST)
 * KHWiki talk:Project World has translations already, but thanks for the work you did! We'll try to get somebody to add descriptions soon. 09:02, 4 March 2011 (EST)

Days
When does the Realm of Darkness appear in Days? 23:46, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

The cutscene where Xemnas tells Roxas that he went to see Sora, and that he looked liked Roxas. The scene was in Another side, another story as well. 23:57, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

Realm of Darkness =/= Realm of Nothingness
Well, to be fair, we can't assume that there is no room for another realm. Also, if we are to take this path... than what realm would Nobodies be associated with? 18:19, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Riku specifically stated that DiZ's scent was not darkness. Riku also couldn't recognize the scent so it wasn't light, since Riku would have easily recognized light. Twilight is light and darkness combined, so if DiZ's scent wasn't light or darkness, then it couldn't have been twilight, or light and darkness combined. Therefore, DiZ's scent wasn't light, darkness, or twilight. Is that clear now? I'm asking what DiZ's scent would be if it wasn't light, darkness, or twilight. 12:38, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
 * It's the exact same scent that Riku will later take on, the one that is the entire theme of his story - a mix of light and darkness. There is nothing about being in one realm or the other that locks in what your scent is - Xehanort was very dark, without ever going to the Realm of Darkness, and Sora is pure light even though he did.
 * There is no "Realm of Twilight". There is "The Realm Between", which is the space between worlds and realms. It's the star-filled emptiness you fly Gummi Ships through, etc.24.13.125.86 14:41, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Wait, the Realm Between isn't made of twilight? Wow my entire view of Kingdom Hearts is falling apart. DiZ's scent couldn't have been a mix between light and darkness because Riku specifically said that DiZ's scent was NOT darkness. Even if it was darkness and light, there's still darkness. But seeing as the person above stated that being in a realm does not affect your scent, I concede. Even though I personally think it would make so much more sense if it was a realm of nothingness, I guess some things just weren't supposed to happen. I appreciate all those who put up with my endless rattling. :P 18:49, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Armor
Doesn't the Keyblade Armor used by Terra, Aqua, Ventus, and Master Xehanort provide insulation from the darkness as well? Shouldn't we list it alongside the Black Coat in the Corridor of Darkness section? -- 14:30, 30 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Soitenly. 15:11, 30 May 2011 (EDT)

Random fact about the Dark Margin
Just something random I found and thought was interesting. The world in KH2 that is the Dark Margin actually has an internal name: "End of Sea". This is pulled from the US version, where there is a "Land in End of Sea" gummi ship text line. Also supported by the fact that the world's ID code is "ES". Crazycatz (talk) 08:20, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

World
According to this translation of Memorial Ultimania, the Dark Margin in a world in the Realm of Darkness. A world like Castle Oblivion or Twilight Town :) Lady Junky (talk) 15:21, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You could say that but it's a bit more complicated. The Director's Secret Report XIII says "What can be called the Dark Margin seen at the beginning and end of KHII is the tip of a world. It is not strictly part of the Realm of Darkness but rather what serves as the boundary line between the dark and the in-between. In the ending, Sora and Riku were on the coast on the Between side and were looking at the sea of the Realm of Darkness."
 * So it's actually part Realm of Darkness and part Realm Between. -- 16:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Except the Director's Secret Report was released 7 years ago. Nomura could changed his mind especially when in the Memorial, they cleary say "part of the Realm of Darkness", not between the two realms :/ Lady Junky (talk) 16:11, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it never outright says that (here is an image). What's been translated is actually just a diagram where the the Dark Margin even slightly overlaps the area (a purple bubble) of the Realm of Darkness. Also, as noted in the comment above, the Dark Margin is only a place, the actual world would be called "End of Sea". -- 16:16, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * So... Dark Margin is a part of End of Sea, which is a world in the Realm of Darkness? Lady Junky (talk) 16:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Probably. As I said it's not wrong to put the world in the Realm of Darkness but it's not completely right either. Also "End of Sea" might or might be not the official name of the world, Square Enix often uses some unusual abbreviations and descriptions in its game files, but at least it's a hint that the "Dark Margin" is part of something bigger (as is Numara's "tip of a world" quote). -- 16:44, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm just chiming in to mention that the part of Director's Secret Report you quote as "tip of a world" is a mistranslation. The word used in there is 世界 (sekai), which is usually translated by "world", but in the context of the KH series is used in reference to the various Realms. The word used to refer to KH Worlds is ワールド (which is a transliteration of the English "world"). -Alarielle- (talk) 16:51, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems you're right. So it's actually the tip of a realm? The original quote is: "闇の海岸と呼ばれるKHIIの冒頭と最後に出て来た場所は、世界の突端であって、厳密には闇の世界では無く狭間と闇の境界線の様な場所です. エンディングのソラとリクは、狭間の世界側である砂浜から、闇の世界である海を見ていたわけです. " But my Japanese is not good enough to make more sense of it, how can it be both the tip of a realm and a borderline between two realms at the same time? -- 17:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * My Japanese isn't that much better, so I'm not entirely sure, but from what I gather, it's the tip of the realm of darkness "protruding" (I'll admit I'm using Google Translate's suggestion for that one) into the Realm Between. The specific word used is 突端, which refers to the tip of a headland. -Alarielle- (talk) 17:16, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I asked Goldpanner about it, maybe she can provide a more up-to-date translation about this passage. But I think your's makes as much sense, even though that would make the Dark Margin just a part of the Realm of Darkness and not a world (or part of a world) of its own. -- 17:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, by the way, the "Heart" page of the Memorial Ultimania also mentions that the Door to Light only appears to denizens of the Realm of Light who are lost in the Realm of Darkness, so it would imply that Sora and Riku were in fact in the Realm of Darkness when they were at the Dark Margin, wouldn't it? -Alarielle- (talk) 11:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's also what the KH3D chronicles about KHII tell us: "They were able to dispatch Xemnas, but there was no escape from the realm of darkness. At the Dark Margin, they stared out to sea, ready to give up...but then a letter in a bottle washed up. It was from Kairi. A door to the light appeared, leading them back to their home, the Destiny Islands, where all their friends were waiting." -- 11:12, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Goldpanner says that "sekai" is often used for single worlds too, so it's very hard to translate. From her understanding the Dark Margin is a place in a world in the Realm Between which is sticking far enough out in the dark ocean that it's sort of in the Realm of Darkness and therefore acting as a boundary area. This makes sense in a lot of ways. It doesn't contradict the games, the Memorial Ultimania and the notions that the worlds only appear in the Realm of Light and Between. -- 21:52, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Corridors of light?
KHUX appears to have the Keyblade wielders using a light version of the Corridors of Darkness. Are these given a name, or are they meant to be the sprite version of the Gates? 19:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's never talked about in-game but it looks really close to the Lanes between so I think it's safe to assume they really are. -- 20:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It can't be the Lanes Between because the world is still whole. There's nothing for the lanes to be between. Personally I always got the impression that they were indeed "Corridors of Light". Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 23:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The setting of KHX is not fully revealed yet, besides even if the world was whole the realm of darkness and in-between were probably already there. Also please compare how the player opens the portal with how Terra does it, it really is the same thing. -- 23:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Doesn't Chirithy specifically talk about taking the player to another world? If this is supposed to be before the world's split up, they don't seem to be doing a great job of making the setting make any kind of sense. 00:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't know how Terra opens his portal because I've never played Birth by Sleep. I believe the worlds, aside from Daybreak Town, are supposed to be illusions of some sort. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Here is a video of the scenes and here the one in KHX, besides the realm of darkness the and dark corridors exist in Unchained (mission 475 onwards) so why not the lanes between? -- 09:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, you clearly know more than me so I'll just back off. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 19:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Official Name Revealed
Courtesy of the newest 2.8 trailer. We've even got a name logo thingy to go with it, though in rather low quality at the moment. We've all known that "Realm of Darkness" wasn't the place's real name, as the word "realm" in the KHverse tends to refer to dimensions that house several worlds (Realm of Light, Realm In-Between, etc). So, it's nice we finally get a real name for the world she visits. --Ignis (talk) 18:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd like to wait if the Kanji changes too, because if it does there will be a new page and if doesn't we just move the page and still keep the old name in there somewhere since it appears in every report of every game so far and is therefore canon as well.
 * As of now I think it's just another re-translation, same thing happened with the "Sleeping Worlds". -- 19:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Whatever the case, you can't deny that it's nice to finally at least have a world logo for it. I kinda wish the trailer was in 4K, because then I could crop out a nice quality version of it.  --Ignis (talk) 20:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Game's out, logo's been cropped, cleaned and uploaded. Feel free to upload a new, cleaner version if you guys come across it. And with that, it really is high time we change the world name... Though only mods and admins can do that...so, if you'd be so kind lol. --Ignis (talk) 08:20, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I think a split is going to be more in order, unless it turns out that everything we've seen so far is part of Dark World and the remaining realm info can be covered just on the universe page. Can someone help me do a dive of all mentions of the realm in the canon so far, so we can confirm which parts go where? 14:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Pretty positive...like 100% that it's all the same thing. The Dark World itself is made of several different worlds that fell to darkness.  I don't see a need for a split, just because we have an official name for it.  --Ignis (talk) 17:24, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, to clarify -- the realm of darkness talked about in reports, is it the same concept as Dark World? Like, it's not like the realm of darkness is the fabric of that timespace and Dark World is the landmass, or anything? They're 100% one-and-the-same? We need to be absolutely confident in that, because if so this is going to be far, far more to revise throughout the wiki than just an article move. 18:07, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Realm of Darkness = Dark World. Unless we get an official word from an interview, or Nomura specifically citing them as two different entities, they're one and the same.  --Ignis (talk) 18:44, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify a few things.
 * "We've all known that "Realm of Darkness" wasn't the place's real name"
 * No, we haven't. The term "realm of darkness" has ALWAYS been used by the series, including cutscenes.
 * "[T]he word "realm" in the KHverse tends to refer to dimensions that house several worlds (Realm of Light, Realm In-Between, etc)"
 * That's only in translations. In the Japanese version, the same word is used for both "world" and "realm". Basically "Realm of Light" can also be translated as "Light World" and "Realm In-Between" as "In-Between World". Also, you're missing the point that the Realm of Darkness was never shattered in the Keyblade War, at least as far as we know.
 * Basically, they're simply using a different translation for the same term we have seen before, and the logo is the first time we see this translation. We should to see if dialogue in the English version also uses "Dark World" instead of "Realm of Darkness". 18:34, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * We usually merge/split pages based on the Japanese name, so does anyone know the Japanese name of "Dark World"? 18:38, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Daaku Warudo lol? They always just romanize the english spelling/pronunciation.  --Ignis (talk) 18:45, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * They don't always do that. In previous games, it is called 闇の世界 (Yami no Sekai). If they call this ダークワールド (Dāku Wārudo), it means they are two different things. If they call it the same, it's the same area. 18:53, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That's...pretty base logic. "Realm of Darkness" was always an informal name, to serve as a counterpart to the Realm of Light.  Besides, this series has retconned the shit out of way bigger things - this is just giving it a more official designation.  --Ignis (talk) 19:14, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Land of Departure was "Tabidachi no Chi", not "Rando obu Dipāchā". And no, the series doesn't retcon itself all the time. Very few things have been retconned, like Ansem not being Ansem. 19:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * As shown in this video of the English version, the objectives that you can complete to get customizable accessories show the location where it can be completed, and objectives that can be complete anywhere say "Location: Dark World". If we can get an official Japanese text for "Dark World", it's in that menu. 13:06, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose it is technically possible that the world's English name will not match the logo, as with the Pride Lands. So we can do the move now, and change everything else when the game comes out depending on it. Mainly what I'm trying to get at -- the Realm of Light isn't synonymous with the worlds lying within it. It's not even synonymous with the World that was within it back before that world split, because there's still the Other Sky, and that World as a concept had different properties than the Realm itself, like using the Door to Light, etc. Even if there's no other physical location within the Realm, it's conceivable that it's a situation like the finale of NuWho Series 5, where Earth is the only planet left in the universe, so we need to make sure we're looking for any mentions in 0.2 that match old descriptions of the realm itself -- like, for example, does Aqua talk about the doors to Kingdom Hearts, does Mickey talk about diving to the "Dark World" to get the Keyblade, do they mention Castle Oblivion at all, Corridors of Darkness, or talk about how being in the "Dark World" erodes your sense of self? That would be a smoking gun, if they mention any of the metaphysics and use whatever the official name is for the new world -- or if the new world simply uses the "yami no sekai", then we're cool to shift the terminology everywhere, as we did with Other Sky. 13:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry if it feels like I'm digging in my heels on this -- I think it's probably correct that we're going to need to shift everything to "Dark World", but considering that this is going to be a wiki-wide change to a pretty fundamental terminology, I just wanna make sure we cross all our t's first so we don't have the chance of jumping the gun and misinforming the community on a pretty basic issue. 13:55, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's alright to wait until the game's out in English. Though, as you can see at the very top of the thread, the world logo was actually discovered in an English trailer.  So it's unlikely there will be any changes.  --Ignis (talk) 18:54, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Now THIS is interesting....
Okay, things have just now gotten weird. This is a very specific and particular image found on the Kingdom Hearts official website. The world is officially classified as End Of Sea. What sticks out to me is that this is kind of similar to what's stated in Director's Secret Report XIII: "That place that appears at the beginning and end of KHII, called the Dark Margin, is the tip of the cape of that world, and it is not strictly part of the Realm of Darkness but a boundary-like place between Darkness and Between." Guess this officially means that the shore is NOT a party of the Dark World, and actually has a name (and world icon!) all its own... Separation time? --Ignis (talk) 03:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Didn't take long for KHInsider to twig to the fact lol. --Ignis (talk) 03:33, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Oook....why aren't we discussing this a wee bit more? :/ --Ignis (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Going from your first comment it seems to me that we have two options: 1) Consider the "Dark Margin" as a location in the world "End of Sea." 2) Consider "Dark Margin" and "End of Sea" as two separate worlds. Regarding the name of the image, a logo/world image for this location/world has yet to appear in the series. If it appears in 2.8HD, let's rename it as such. UPDATE 04:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC): Their website is, well, a hot mess. Radiant Garden's image is mislabeled as "Agrabah." Until they clean it up/we get more information, we might be better off playing the wait-and-see game. 04:01, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I actually have a half-feeling that they might even delete it. It feels like someone jumped the gun on a KH3 world.  In any case, it's been uploaded and archived here.  --Ignis (talk) 04:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * End of Sea is first mentioned in the Memorial Ultimania, per Shard. I forget the context. 14:10, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It's still a pretty weird thing to provide a high-res icon for the site right here and now. Didn't it come out like almost 3 years ago?  Maybe it's worth checking up on it - to see what the Japanese name is.  If it's also "End of Sea" or something similar, then it pretty much settles it right?  --Ignis (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Name of page change
Shouldn't the name of the page be changed to "Dark World"? "Realm of darkness" is never capitalized in subtitles or Reports or anything, which means that's not actually the name of the realm, that's just what people call it. "Dark World" is capitalized which means it's the official name of the realm, right? --76.102.24.151 05:44, 28 January 2017 (UTC)