Editing Talk:Realm of Darkness

==Claims to be sourced==
<small>'''Note''': ''Please verify and move to page once cited.''</small>
*"Anyone who has become strongly attuned to Darkness eventually develops amber eyes and pointed ears. This is seen in Xehanort, his [[Ansem, Seeker of Darkness|Heartless]] and [[Xemnas|Nobody]], Ansem the Wise, Braig and his [[Xigbar|Nobody]], and [[Saïx]]."
:I believe Nomura has said that Braig has these because of his relationship with Xehanort...although that doesn't rule out that the base mechanic is darkness, doesn't explain why Xehanort would waste time fiddling with eyes and ears, doesn't explain Ventus and Vanitas not having these features, and doesn't explain Ansem having them. Anyway, can someone provide the quote from the interview (I believe in BbS Ultimania) and if possible, the original Japanese line? There is a plethora of poorly translated material that we get from some of these sources (remember Two Across and 13 Mushroom?), and I'd like to be able to look at the thing myself.
:Also, if anyone can find other mentions of eyes and ears in the ultimanias and interviews, we should take a look at those too.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
::Objection withdrawn. KH3D makes it clear why this is, although I'm still questioning why Ansem has them.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 00:21, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

==Saix==
"After being saved from Saïx's Heartless by..."

Since Saix is a Nobody, this sentence is incorrect, right?  This reads he is a Nobody's Heartless, which isn't technically possible.  Shouldn't just read "Saix"?
[[User:203.205.121.65|203.205.121.65]] 14:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


* It just means the Heartless that he summoned to attack them. [[User:Servantroxas|Servantroxas]] 21:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

wait, if every realm has a keyblade master, than who is it for the realm of darkness?[[User:Rock2060|Rock2060]] 23:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Mickey.The MotherF*!#%&@ article says so

== Ansem ==

Ansem was never trapped here. He was trapped in the Realm of Nothingness. Check http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Ansem_Report if you don't believe me. Whoever's reverting my edits should know that there is no need.--[[Special:Contributions/68.193.149.112|68.193.149.112]] 02:51, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
:Drop it, he used the corridors for travel. He wasn't trapped there. '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="black">TNÉ</font>]]''' <sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#1E90FF">En avant</font>]] [[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="#00BFFF ">Bravo !</font>]]'''</sub> 03:05, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


:You know, I could've sworn it said that Xehanort and the other 5 apprentices banished him to the Realm of Nothingness. To keep his sanity, he began to write the Reports. He later managed to escape the realm, becoming "one of the dark" via his alias, DiZ. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}}

{{Ghostboy3000|time=10:08, September 19, 2009 (UTC)|text= Okay, I'll settle this by checking the insider. There is no need to argue over something so stupid! Edit: It says the realm of NOTHINGNESS!}}

Yea, it does, I'm glad we agree. That's what I've been saying. So that entire paragraph isn't really applicable. That's why I'm deleting it.--[[Special:Contributions/68.193.149.112|68.193.149.112]] 17:43, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

== Realm of Darkness's Geography ==

Would it perhaps be beneficial to include a physical description or geography for the Realm of Darkness? You see what it looks like in Kingdom Hearts's ending, Final Mix's new cutscene with Riku there, the scenes with the Dark Margin, and especially since it is able to be traversed during the secret episode, otherwise known as Fragmentary Passage. Would this many appearance not be viable enough to include a description of what the Realm of Darkness actually looks like?- [[User:Ganondorf Undurin Dragmire|Ganondorf Undurin Dragmire]] 03:17, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

They also give a veiw of it at the end of ''Birth by Sleep''. giving another look into the Darkness. The physicality of the Dark would be most important [[Special:Contributions/96.4.63.22|96.4.63.22]] 12:27, February 11, 2011 (UTC)Okirxn, The Metalic Phantom

== The flaws in the 'Realm of Darkness' entry ==

The Corridors of Darkness 

They are NOT really a part of the Realm of Darkness, seeing that the article is incorrect in stating that the realm is "made up of Darkness in people in every world", for, were that so, Aqua in the final scene of BbS would be within every person within the World, meaning, by forcing the light in her to act, she could enter anyones heart via the dark and end the conflict that is present in the entire series. The realm itself is a reflected version of the Realm of Light. The Darkness leaks into the Light, and, keeping with the mirror analogy, the Light slips into the Darkness. In reality, the Corridors are door to the Lanes Between, accessed by Darkness rather than a Keyblade. In ''Kingdom Hearts II'' When Sora and company enter the Dark Corridor to get to the World that Never Was, they fight alongside Axel in a space between worlds known as "Betwixt and Between", which looks very similar to the space the first keyblade wielders used, with the addition of the Nobody symbol walls.

== Vanitas ==

The article says that those who spend too much time in darkness, their eyes turn amber and their skin darkens. Is this also true for Vanitas, as he has amber eyes? Or are his eyes just a character trait?

== "A fragmentary passage" Areas ==

I have a Japanese roommate. I just asked him to translate for me the names of the three rooms that the player can go through in "A fragmentary passage", and he kindly did so as best as he could given the shoddy screenshotlets I took of some YouTube videos. He was able to determine that, first, the Japanese title of the world is "Dark World" (I bet this wouldn't be too bad to translate into "Realm of Darkness", but then they don't stick "Realm of Light" onto everything in the games, so...*shrug*), and second, the naming of the three rooms was a pretty general method: It's in a hierarchy.

Strangely, however, the rooms' names are in a different order than they are visited, if one thinks logically. (Either that, or I arranged them wrong on the Paint file I used to put them in...) If all is right, then essentially, in order, these are the (essential) names of the three rooms that are visited in "A fragmentary passage", in order:

#'''Dark World: Middle Tier'''
#'''Dark World: Bottom Tier'''
#'''Dark World: Top Tier'''

(Tiers ARE the "stages" of a hierarchy, right?)

The name of the room the boss is fought in is...well, I have no clue; I wonder whether the names of places such as "Memory's Contortion" are fan-made or what...Anyway, I can upload the .png file I have the three on (with my notes) if someone wants to take another look and see if there's something wrong. Regardless, someone should really at ''least'' put the descriptions of the three rooms into the article. I would, but 1) I don't have the game, and 2) I've got a paper to write! [[User:FerreTrip |<span style="color:tan;"><b>FT</b></span>]] 20:47, 3 March 2011 (EST)
::[[KHWiki talk:Project World]] has translations already, but thanks for the work you did! We'll try to get somebody to add descriptions soon.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 09:02, 4 March 2011 (EST)

== Days ==

When does the Realm of Darkness appear in Days?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:46, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

The cutscene where Xemnas tells Roxas that he went to see Sora, and that he looked liked Roxas. The scene was in Another side, another story as well. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 23:57, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

== Realm of Darkness =/= Realm of Nothingness ==

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=14:44, 16 April 2011 (EDT)|inverse=ok, forgive me, but I really don't get this. All of a sudden, the Realm of Nothingness suddenly became the Realm of Darkness, all because Ansem was banished by Xehanort into ''a'' realm and in ''Blank Points,'' Ansem says he's been to the Dark Realm before. I mean sure, that sounds sorta right, but what about the other proof that says it was the realm of nothingness?

*Ansem states in the Secret Ansem Reports numerous times that he was in a realm of ''Nothingness''.
*Ansem says those who stay too long in that realm will become nothing.
*Ansem calls himself DiZ, meaning Darkness in '''Zero'''. Darkness meaning the darkness he chose to use and zero meaning the realm of nothingness.
*In CoM R/R, Riku says that DiZ's scent was '''''not darkness, but something else'''''. This scent is most likely Nothingness.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Nomura has specifically said that there is the Realm of Light, the Realm of Darkness, and the Realm Between. There is no room for another realm. There is no point at which DiZ could have been to the Realm of Darkness before the end of KH2, other than his "realm of nothingness" (not capitalized) that he mentions in the reports.

Aqua says exactly the same thing about the realm of darkness, that her memories are slipping away, as Ansem did.}}

Well, to be fair, we can't assume that there is no room for another realm.  Also, if we are to take this path... than what realm would Nobodies be associated with?  {{The Inexistentsig}} 18:19, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=18:57, 16 April 2011 (EDT)|darkcookies=

*''"realm of nothingness" (not capitalized)'': Ok I'll give you that.
*Aqua had been in the dark realm for 11 years in Blank Points, yet she still exists. According to the Secret Ansem Reports, she probably would have stopped existing. That is, unless she was in a different realm than the one Ansem was in years before.
*Still doesn't explain why Ansem would numerously refer to that realm as nothingness instead of darkness, or why he calls himself DiZ instead of DiD (or something) and why Riku sensed something other than darkness in Ansem.

I'm ok with saying that Ansem was in the dark realm of there is enough proof saying so, but we can't ignore some contradictory facts.}}
{{KrytenKoro|....erg...
*Nomura was outlining the structure of the universe. Ergo, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ANOTHER REALM. That's like saying "There are four forces that completely define the universe.....THERE'S ANOTHER ONE I DECIDED NOT TO TELL YOU ABOUT EARLIER."
*The darkness, '''''an empty realm''''', eats away at your self and your memories. Aqua's sojourn illustrates that perfectly, and Ansem says that the last time he ws here, he was losing his memories - JUST AS IN THE SECRET ANSEM REPORTS.
*...

I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a '''hollow realm of nothingness. '''
What is Xehanort hoping to gain with my pilfered existence? 
Will my people cease to smile? 
If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth '''walk with darkness''' as a friend. 
Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated. 
'''Darkness in the midst of nothing.''' 
"Darkness in Zero." 
Thus, I shall be known as DiZ. 
Discarding the stolen name "Ansem"... 
And going in search of revenge. 

It is only by relying upon my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here''' where all existence is nullified. '''
My heart is being overcome with hatred toward my apprentices, ''''possessed by the darkness,''' and with the anger I feel for stupidly allowing myself to be betrayed. '''
Is this darkness, eating away at my heart? '''

There are no contradictions whatsoever with the Realm of Darkness being the realm Ansem was talking about. Ansem describes the realm of darkness as being empty. That's all the Secret Ansem Reports were doing. Having a separate realm of nothingness would introduce a huge amount of inconsistencies, and to do it we'd have to assume that Nomura and Ansem were lying at every point other than his few lines in the Secret Ansem Reports.}}

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=11:28, 17 April 2011 (EDT)|videogame=Seeing that you're taking the time to respond to me and answer detailedly (yeah i know that's not a word), I feel like I'm irking you (yeah I know that's not a word), but just answer me one last thing. It's the question I '''''really''''' wanna ask and (no offense) you kinda seem to be avoiding. In ''Chain of Memories Reverse/Rebirth'', when Riku enters the memory-version of Twilight Town, he sees Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, but soon realizes that it is someone else. This person pretending to be the Heartless Ansem turns out to be DiZ, ergo the '''true''' Ansem, Ansem the Wise. Riku states that DiZ and Heartless Ansem were different because "Ansem" smelled of the foullest darkness, while DiZ '''''did not smell like darkness, but smelled like something else'''''. If there are purely three realms, light, darkness, and twilight, then DiZ would have to smell like one of those realms. Riku would have easily recognized light and darkness, but since he could not decide what DiZ's particular scent was, then DiZ's scent was, by logic, not light, darkness, or twilight. So what could DiZ's scent have been, if not nothingness? And no I'm pretty sure DiZ didn't rub himself with mayonnaise and cream cheese.}}
{{Asif|sho=CLC, you said:
:"''If there are purely three realms, light, darkness, and twilight, then DiZ would have to smell like one of those realms. Riku would have easily recognized light and darkness, but since he could not decide what DiZ's particular scent was, then DiZ's scent was, by logic, not light, darkness, or twilight.''"

The second sentence doesn't make sense.  If Riku couldn't recognize the scent of light or darkness and thus couldn't decide what his scent was, how does that mean DiZ didn't smell like nothingness?

Either that or he smelled like sea-salt ice cream.}}

Riku specifically stated that DiZ's scent was not darkness. Riku also couldn't recognize the scent so it wasn't light, since Riku would have easily recognized light. Twilight is light and darkness combined, so if DiZ's scent wasn't light or darkness, then it couldn't have been twilight, or light and darkness combined. Therefore, DiZ's scent wasn't light, darkness, or twilight. Is that clear now? I'm asking what DiZ's scent would be if it wasn't light, darkness, or twilight. {{User:CaelumLucisCaliga/Sig}} 12:38, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
:It's the exact same scent that Riku will later take on, the one that is the ''entire theme of his story'' - a mix of light and darkness. There is nothing about being in one realm or the other that locks in what your scent is - Xehanort was very dark, without ever going to the Realm of Darkness, and Sora is pure light even though he did.
:There is no "Realm of Twilight". There is "The Realm Between", which is the space between worlds and realms. It's the star-filled emptiness you fly Gummi Ships through, etc.[[Special:Contributions/24.13.125.86|24.13.125.86]] 14:41, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
::Wait, the Realm Between isn't made of twilight? Wow my entire view of Kingdom Hearts is falling apart. DiZ's scent couldn't have been a mix between light and darkness because '''''Riku specifically said that DiZ's scent was NOT darkness.''''' Even if it was darkness and light, there's still darkness. But seeing as the person above stated that being in a realm does not affect your scent, I concede. Even though I personally think it would make so much more sense if it was a realm of nothingness, I guess some things just weren't supposed to happen. I appreciate all those who put up with my endless rattling. :P {{User:CaelumLucisCaliga/Sig}} 18:49, 17 April 2011 (EDT)
{{ShardofTruth|time=11:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)|talk=I too would argue that the realm of nothingsness is in fact a seperate plane, the problem here is that it's never mentioned by Nomura, which either means it's completely unimportant or really not a thing of its own and part of another realm (darkness or in-between).<br>
But we've seen the realm of darkness in KHBBSFM, it may be considered empty compared to the realm of light but it's not a place "where all existence is nullified" (Secret Ansem's Report 4), because there things existing in it, mainly the pure blood heartless.<br>
I would also argue that we've seen this place at least three times now. First in Castle Oblivion where the door with the keyhole leads to the last battle with Marluxia, he said: ''Soon the emptiness will shatter your heart-here in this world of nothingness!'' (一切の心が消えた無の世界―――おまえの心を…虚しく散らせ！) Then there is the place Naminè talks to Roxas on the 3rd day called '''[[:File:The Empty Realm KHII.png|The Empty Realm]]''' and of course the place the final battle against Xemnas takes place, '''The World of Nothing'''. The last two places use the same kanji 虚無の世界 (it's only 無の世界 in the Secret Ansem's Reports) and even if it's not directly seen ingame SE choose these names themselves. The three places have a lot in common, they are vast, mostly white and almost empty.<br>
Another thing is how Sora and Riku move to the Dark Margin. It's futile to discuss if it's the door to light (it doesn't look like it) or something similiar but they cross over to another realm/world (because that's what these tunnels do) meaning they probably weren't in the realm of darkness before.<br>
There is a lot left in the dark how the universe of Kingdom Hearts works, especially how other realms and the worlds in it are connected and can be reached. But I say there is a notable difference in the visual style of these two places and even if some characteristics like the emptyness seem to overlap they are not the same and shouldn't be called the same.}}

==Armor==
Doesn't the Keyblade Armor used by Terra, Aqua, Ventus, and Master Xehanort provide insulation from the darkness as well? Shouldn't we list it alongside the Black Coat in the Corridor of Darkness section? --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 14:30, 30 May 2011 (EDT)
:Soitenly.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:11, 30 May 2011 (EDT)

== Random fact about the Dark Margin ==

Just something random I found and thought was interesting. The world in KH2 that is the Dark Margin actually has an internal name: "End of Sea". This is pulled from the US version, where there is a "Land in End of Sea" gummi ship text line. Also supported by the fact that the world's ID code is "ES". [[User:Crazycatz|Crazycatz]] ([[User talk:Crazycatz|talk]]) 08:20, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

==World==
According to this [http://kh13.com/news/information-from-the-kingdom-hearts-series-memorial-ultimania-translated translation of Memorial Ultimania], the Dark Margin in a world in the Realm of Darkness. A world like Castle Oblivion or Twilight Town :) [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 15:21, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:You could say that but it's a bit more complicated. The [[Director's Secret Report XIII]] says "What can be called the Dark Margin seen at the beginning and end of KHII is the tip of a world. It is not strictly part of the Realm of Darkness but rather what serves as the boundary line between the dark and the in-between. In the ending, Sora and Riku were on the coast on the Between side and were looking at the sea of the Realm of Darkness."<br>
:So it's actually part Realm of Darkness and part Realm Between. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 16:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
::Except the Director's Secret Report was released 7 years ago. Nomura could changed his mind especially when in the Memorial, they cleary say "part of the Realm of Darkness", not between the two realms :/ [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 16:11, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:::No, it never outright says that ([http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/ShardofTruth/Other%20KH%20stuff/Worlds.jpg here] is an image). What's been translated is actually just a diagram where the the Dark Margin even slightly overlaps the area (a purple bubble) of the Realm of Darkness. Also, as noted in the comment above, the Dark Margin is only a place, the actual world would be called "End of Sea". --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 16:16, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
::::So... Dark Margin is a part of End of Sea, which is a world in the Realm of Darkness? [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 16:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::Probably. As I said it's not wrong to put the world in the Realm of Darkness but it's not completely right either. Also "End of Sea" might or might be not the official name of the world, Square Enix often uses some unusual abbreviations and descriptions in its game files, but at least it's a hint that the "Dark Margin" is part of something bigger (as is Numara's "tip of a world" quote). --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 16:44, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::I'm just chiming in to mention that the part of Director's Secret Report you quote as "tip of a world" is a mistranslation. The word used in there is 世界 (''sekai''), which is usually translated by "world", but in the context of the KH series is used in reference to the various Realms. The word used to refer to KH Worlds is ワールド (which is a transliteration of the English "world"). [[User:-Alarielle-|-Alarielle-]] ([[User talk:-Alarielle-|talk]]) 16:51, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::It seems you're right. So it's actually the tip of a realm? The original quote is: "闇の海岸と呼ばれるKHIIの冒頭と最後に出て来た場所は、世界の突端であって、厳密には闇の世界では無く狭間と闇の境界線の様な場所です。エンディングのソラとリクは、狭間の世界側である砂浜から、闇の世界である海を見ていたわけです。" But my Japanese is not good enough to make more sense of it, how can it be both the tip of a realm and a borderline between two realms at the same time? --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 17:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::My Japanese isn't that much better, so I'm not entirely sure, but from what I gather, it's the tip of the realm of darkness "protruding" (I'll admit I'm using Google Translate's suggestion for that one) into the Realm Between. The specific word used is 突端, which refers to the tip of a headland. [[User:-Alarielle-|-Alarielle-]] ([[User talk:-Alarielle-|talk]]) 17:16, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::I asked Goldpanner about it, maybe she can provide a more up-to-date translation about this passage. But I think your's makes as much sense, even though that would make the Dark Margin just a part of the Realm of Darkness and not a world (or part of a world) of its own. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 17:26, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
:Oh, by the way, the "Heart" page of the Memorial Ultimania also mentions that the Door to Light only appears to denizens of the Realm of Light who are lost in the Realm of Darkness, so it would imply that Sora and Riku were in fact in the Realm of Darkness when they were at the Dark Margin, wouldn't it? [[User:-Alarielle-|-Alarielle-]] ([[User talk:-Alarielle-|talk]]) 11:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, that's also what the KH3D chronicles about KHII tell us: "They were able to dispatch Xemnas, but there was no escape from the realm of darkness. At the Dark Margin, they stared out to sea, ready to give up...but then a letter in a bottle washed up. It was from Kairi. A door to the light appeared, leading them back to their home, the Destiny Islands, where all their friends were waiting."  --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 11:12, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Goldpanner says that "sekai" is often used for single worlds too, so it's very hard to translate. From her understanding the Dark Margin is a place in a world in the Realm Between which is sticking far enough out in the dark ocean that it's sort of in the Realm of Darkness and therefore acting as a boundary area. This makes sense in a lot of ways. It doesn't contradict the games, the Memorial Ultimania and the notions that the worlds only appear in the Realm of Light and Between. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 21:52, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

== Corridors of light? ==

KHUX appears to have the Keyblade wielders using a light version of the Corridors of Darkness. Are these given a name, or are they meant to be the sprite version of the Gates?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:It's never talked about in-game but it looks really close to the [[:File:Departure_01_KHBBS.png|Lanes between]] so I think it's safe to assume they really are. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 20:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
::It can't be the Lanes Between because the world is still whole. There's nothing for the lanes to be between. Personally I always got the impression that they were indeed "Corridors of Light". [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 23:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
:::The setting of KHX is not fully revealed yet, besides even if the world was whole the realm of darkness and in-between were probably already there. Also please compare how the player opens the portal with how Terra does it, it really is the same thing. --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 23:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
::::Doesn't Chirithy specifically talk about taking the player to another world? If this is supposed to be before the world's split up, they don't seem to be doing a great job of making the setting make any kind of sense.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 00:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::I wouldn't know how Terra opens his portal because I've never played Birth by Sleep. I believe the worlds, aside from Daybreak Town, are supposed to be illusions of some sort. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 04:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
::::::Here is [https://youtu.be/raM_jUSj1yI?t=12m7s a video] of the scenes and here the [https://youtu.be/d26-H-GF9BI?t=11m5s one in KHX], besides the realm of darkness the and dark corridors exist in Unchained (mission 475 onwards) so why not the lanes between? --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 09:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Nevermind, you clearly know more than me so I'll just back off. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 19:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

== Official Name Revealed ==

Courtesy of the newest 2.8 trailer.  [http://i.imgur.com/CQIBjmG.png We've even got a name logo thingy to go with it], though in rather low quality at the moment.  We've all known that "Realm of Darkness" wasn't the place's real name, as the word "realm" in the KHverse tends to refer to dimensions that house several worlds (Realm of Light, Realm In-Between, etc).  So, it's nice we finally get a real name for the world she visits.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
:I'd like to wait if the Kanji changes too, because if it does there will be a new page and if doesn't we just move the page and still keep the old name in there somewhere since it appears in every report of every game so far and is therefore canon as well.
:As of now I think it's just another re-translation, same thing happened with the "Sleeping Worlds". --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 19:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
::Whatever the case, you can't deny that it's nice to finally at least have a world logo for it.  I kinda wish the trailer was in 4K, because then I could crop out a nice quality version of it.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 20:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Game's out, logo's been cropped, cleaned and uploaded.  Feel free to upload a new, cleaner version if you guys come across it.  And with that, it really is high time we change the world name...  Though only mods and admins can do that...so, if you'd be so kind lol.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 08:20, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I think a split is going to be more in order, unless it turns out that everything we've seen so far is part of Dark World and the remaining realm info can be covered just on the universe page. Can someone help me do a dive of all mentions of the realm in the canon so far, so we can confirm which parts go where?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:05, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::Pretty positive...like 100% that it's all the same thing.  The Dark World ''itself'' is made of several different worlds that fell to darkness.  I don't see a need for a split, just because we have an official name for it.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 17:24, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::Okay, to clarify -- the realm of darkness talked about in reports, is it the same concept as Dark World? Like, it's not like the realm of darkness is the fabric of that timespace and Dark World is the landmass, or anything? They're 100% one-and-the-same? We need to be absolutely confident in that, because if so this is going to be far, far more to revise throughout the wiki than just an article move.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:07, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::Realm of Darkness = Dark World.  Unless we get an official word from an interview, or Nomura specifically citing them as two different entities, they're one and the same.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:44, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::Just to clarify a few things.
:::"We've all known that "Realm of Darkness" wasn't the place's real name"
::::No, we haven't. The term "realm of darkness" has ALWAYS been used by the series, including cutscenes.
:::"[T]he word "realm" in the KHverse tends to refer to dimensions that house several worlds (Realm of Light, Realm In-Between, etc)"
::::That's only in translations. In the Japanese version, the same word is used for both "world" and "realm". Basically "Realm of Light" can also be translated as "Light World" and "Realm In-Between" as "In-Between World". Also, you're missing the point that the Realm of Darkness was never shattered in the Keyblade War, at least as far as we know.
::Basically, they're simply using a different translation for the same term we have seen before, and the logo is the ''first'' time we see this translation. We should to see if dialogue in the English version also uses "Dark World" instead of "Realm of Darkness". {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 18:34, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::We usually merge/split pages based on the Japanese name, so does anyone know the Japanese name of "Dark World"? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:38, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::Daaku Warudo lol?  They always just romanize the english spelling/pronunciation.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:45, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::They don't always do that. In previous games, it is called 闇の世界 (Yami no Sekai). If they call this ダークワールド (Dāku Wārudo), it means they are two different things. If they call it the same, it's the same area. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:53, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::That's...pretty base logic.  "Realm of Darkness" was always an informal name, to serve as a counterpart to the Realm of Light.  Besides, this series has retconned the shit out of way bigger things - this is just giving it a more official designation.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 19:14, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:Land of Departure was "Tabidachi no Chi", not "Rando obu Dipāchā". And no, the series doesn't retcon itself all the time. Very few things have been retconned, like Ansem not being Ansem. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 19:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::As shown in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGyftizgy_s this video of the English version], the objectives that you can complete to get customizable accessories show the location where it can be completed, and objectives that can be complete anywhere say "Location: Dark World". If we can get an official Japanese text for "Dark World", it's in that menu. {{User:G-SANtos/Sig}} 13:06, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I suppose it is ''technically'' possible that the world's English name will not match the logo, as with the [[Pride Lands]]. So we can do the move now, and change everything else when the game comes out depending on it. Mainly what I'm trying to get at -- the Realm of Light isn't synonymous with the worlds lying within it. It's not even synonymous with the World that was within it back before that world split, because there's still the Other Sky, and that World as a ''concept'' had different properties than the Realm itself, like using the Door to Light, etc. Even if there's no other physical location within the Realm, it's conceivable that it's a situation like the finale of NuWho Series 5, where Earth is the only planet left in the universe, so we need to make sure we're looking for any mentions in 0.2 that match old descriptions of the realm itself -- like, for example, does Aqua talk about the doors to Kingdom Hearts, does Mickey talk about diving to the "Dark World" to get the Keyblade, do they mention Castle Oblivion at all, Corridors of Darkness, or talk about how being in the "Dark World" erodes your sense of self? That would be a smoking gun, if they mention any of the metaphysics and use whatever the official name is for the new world -- or if the new world simply uses the "yami no sekai", then we're cool to shift the terminology everywhere, as we did with Other Sky.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:52, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Sorry if it feels like I'm digging in my heels on this -- I think it's probably correct that we're going to need to shift everything to "Dark World", but considering that this is going to be a wiki-wide change to a pretty fundamental terminology, I just wanna make sure we cross all our t's first so we don't have the chance of jumping the gun and misinforming the community on a pretty basic issue.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:55, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::::I think it's alright to wait until the game's out in English.  Though, as you can see at the very top of the thread, the world logo was actually discovered in an ''English'' trailer.  So it's unlikely there will be any changes.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 18:54, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

== Now THIS is interesting.... ==

Okay, things have just now gotten weird.  [http://kingdomhearts.com/img/worlds/icons/end_of_sea-min.png This is a very specific and particular image] found on the Kingdom Hearts official website.  The world is officially classified as '''End Of Sea'''.  What sticks out to me is that this is kind of similar to what's stated in [[Director's Secret Report XIII]]:  "That place that appears at the beginning and end of KHII, called the Dark Margin, is the tip of the cape of that world, and it is not strictly part of the Realm of Darkness but a boundary-like place between Darkness and Between."  Guess this officially means that the shore is NOT a party of the Dark World, and actually has a name (and world icon!) all its own...  Separation time?  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 03:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
:[http://www.khinsider.com/news/Official-KINGDOM-HEARTS-website-updated-missing-Xbox-One-logo-8264 Didn't take long for KHInsider to twig to the fact lol].  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 03:33, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Oook....why aren't we discussing this a wee bit more?  :/  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 01:29, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::Going from your first comment it seems to me that we have two options: 1) Consider the "Dark Margin" as a location in the world "End of Sea." 2) Consider "Dark Margin" and "End of Sea" as two separate worlds. Regarding the name of the image, a logo/world image for this location/world has yet to appear in the series. If it appears in 2.8HD, let's rename it as such. UPDATE 04:06, 25 January 2017 (UTC): Their website is, well, a hot mess. Radiant Garden's image is mislabeled as "Agrabah." Until they clean it up/we get more information, we might be better off playing the wait-and-see game. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 04:01, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::I actually have a half-feeling that they might even delete it.  It feels like someone jumped the gun on a KH3 world.  In any case, it's been uploaded and archived here.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 04:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
::::End of Sea is first mentioned in the Memorial Ultimania, per Shard. I forget the context.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:10, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::It's still a pretty weird thing to provide a high-res icon for the site right here and now.  Didn't it come out like almost 3 years ago?  Maybe it's worth checking up on it - to see what the Japanese name is.  If it's also "End of Sea" or something similar, then it pretty much settles it right?  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 16:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

==Name of page change==
Shouldn't the name of the page be changed to "Dark World"? "Realm of darkness" is never capitalized in subtitles or Reports or anything, which means that's not actually the name of the realm, that's just what people call it. "Dark World" is capitalized which means it's the official name of the realm, right? --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 05:44, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
:Not necessarily, Dark World could very well only be a ''small part'' of the Realm of Darkness. At this exact point in time, it is still uncertain, and it would be unwise to make a statement of such magnitude on the chance that it's false. At least in my opinion anyway. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:28, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
::Well, the thing is, in Japanese, the realm of darkness is always called "Dark World" (Yami no Sekai). I'm just sort of trying to make sense of the English localized version in a way that makes sense to the plot. The people who localized it could've had a reason for giving the realm of darkness two different names, but it was most likely just an inconsistency. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it make sense lol --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 05:48, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

:We have enough information for the move.  I vote yes.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 05:51, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
::Do we also have enough info to change the name of the "Sleeping Worlds" page to "Unchained"? In Back Cover, we discover that "Unchained" is a realm that's "made of dreams", so surely that means it's the realm of sleep, right? Or should we wait for Unchained X's season 2 for some more concrete evidence? --[[Special:Contributions/76.102.24.151|76.102.24.151]] 07:42, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
:::Uhrr...I'm not so sure about that one yet.  And technically speaking, season 2's already started since Japan got some new story content.  I doubt we'll have to wait too long though.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 08:23, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
::I'm not so sure we do, so I vote no. [[User:Rex Ronald Rilander|Rex Ronald Rilander]] ([[User talk:Rex Ronald Rilander|talk]]) 03:54, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
*Xehanort's Report V:     Now, in addition to the realm of light in which we reside, there is also a realm of darkness, and the realm between which connects the two. The realm of darkness is most forbidden; I am told none who set foot there have ever returned.
*Xehanort's Report VI:     The first and second families differ only in origin; Keyblades of darkness are found in the realm of darkness, and are counterparts to the Keyblades we use in the realm of light.
*Ansem's Report 12:     To get to the realm of Darkness, one must go through the doors of Kingdom Hearts, the place where the world's hearts connect. /     The world in which we live. The realm of Darkness. The realm of Light.
*Secret Ansem's Report 3:     Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm? /     I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness. /     Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated.
*Secret Ansem's Report 4:     How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness?
*Secret Ansem's Report 6:     With this new power, I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world. While it is still difficult to come and go as I please, my banishment is now a thing of the past.
*Secret Ansem's Report 8:     Meanwhile, the King, who had dived into the realm of darkness, worked with the Keyblade-wielding hero to close the door to Kingdom Hearts from the realms of both darkness and light, thus holding off the threat of tremendous darkness.
*Secret Ansem's Report 11:     My friend has been fighting in the realm of darkness. Most likely he found his way there through Traverse Town. /     It seems my friend, fighting in the realm of darkness, appeared in Castle Oblivion through a corridor of darkness constructed by Organization XIII.
*KH3D Glossary: Kingdom Hearts: The Kingdom Hearts made from the hearts of worlds had a door that led to the realm of darkness; its depths were never fully charted.
*KH3D Glossary: Hearts Tied to Sora: Not long after, Terra became a vessel for Master Xehanort, and Aqua vanished into the realm of darkness.
*KH3D character files: Aqua: To save a friend, she cast herself into the realm of darkness, never to be seen again.
*KH3D Mementos: KHBBS: Aqua wandered the realm of darkness for a decade before meeting a stranger there.
*KH3D Mementos: KH: Sora was able to close the door again with the help of Riku and King Mickey, who stayed trapped in the realm of darkness on the other side.
*KH3D Mementos: KH2: By using the alternate version of the town where Roxas spent his summer vacation, Sora and the others found a way into the realm of darkness. / They were able to dispatch Xemnas, but there was no escape from the realm of darkness. At the Dark Margin, they stared out to sea, ready to give up...but then a letter in a bottle washed up.
*KHUX: Your mission is to defeat the Heartless in the Corridor of Darkness.
**Unclear whether this is simple tunnels from world to world, or pieces of the world a la World Terminus and Dark World.
*KH2: Sora: The King was locked in the realm of darkness, right?
*KH2: He found the dark realm's Keyblade, and with it, closed the door.
*KH2: And the King must know where Riku is, 'cause the two of them were together in the realm of darkness when we closed the door.
*KH2: Sora: And maybe something on the dark realm, too?
*KH2: Sora: I don't care about any of that! Just let me into the realm of darkness, okay!?
*KH2: Sora: It must be the <big>'''Realm of Darkness'''</big>!
*KH2: Mickey: It might be. And there should be a way into the <big>'''Realm of Darkness'''</big> there.
*KH2: Mickey: There's gotta be an entrance into the dark realm somewhere. Let's split up.
*KH2: Riku must have realized then: to fight in the realm of darkness, he would have to immerse himself in that same darkness.
*KH2: Mickey: You don't belong in the dark realm anymore, Riku.
*KHCOM: Vexen: Riku, you say? Has he emerged from the realm of darkness?
*KHCOM: Vexen: Fascinating... That's why you mistook him for the Superior. The dark power given to Riku facilitated his escape from its realm.
*KHCOM: Vexen: Don't be absurd. The witch is gone. She cannot return from the realm of darkness of her own volition.
*KHCOM: Mickey: I needed a way outta the realm of darkness, and then suddenly, this card appeared right in front of me.
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale I: Riku, Sora, and the king worked together to close the door to darkness, but Riku was trapped inside, in the realm of darkness.
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale IV: The darkness defeated Lexaeus, then dragged Riku into the realm of darkness.
*KHCOM: Riku's Tale VI: Will his choice take him to the realm of light...or darkness?
*KHCOM: The King: When Riku fell into the realm of darkness, the king showed him the way, but the two were separated when the door to darkness was closed.
*KHBBS: Aqua: Please, call me Aqua. Why are you sitting here all alone in the realm of darkness? How did you end up here?
*KH: Ursula: Oh, yes. We had a deal, didn’t we? Time for a little journey—to the dark world of the Heartless!
;Can't find transcript of 0.2 or KH3DHD.

Of note: We also have "End of Sea", which is treated like a world that includes the Dark Margin. There's also "End of the World", which is just...iffy. Have we ever gotten confirmation on what realm that is located in?


:Okay, so, summary:
*"Realm of Darkness" is canon formal descriptor as of KH2.
*"Dark World" is canon formal descriptor as of KH0.2
*"dark world" (KH), "realm of nothingness" (KH2), "realm of darkness" (KHCOM, KHBBS, KH2, KH3D), and "dark realm" (KH2) are informal descriptors

Considering the terminology for "Realm Between", "Realm of Light", etc. being consistent through the great majority of the games, I feel like "Dark World" should be listed as "translated as X in Y" a la [[Sonic Surge]]. That would change if AFP makes a concerted effort, in dialogue/reports as well, to refer to the location as "Dark World"/"Light World", etc. -- technically that is the first (obscure) translation of the term by Ursula, so it would be fine.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:17, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
:In 0.2 the world you explore is called "Dark World" in menu and such, but everyone still calls it "realm of darkness". {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
:When there's two pieces of canon that clash and contradict, we're supposed to go with the most recent one.  So we make the move to Dark World, and within the page itself we put something like "also known as the Realm of Darkness".  [[Ansem, Seeker of Darkness]] is an excellent example of how we go about it.  --[[User:Ignis|Ignis]] ([[User talk:Ignis|talk]]) 21:51, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


I feel like we should come to a conclusion about this, so here are my final thoughts on this matter: KH0.2 uses both the names "Dark World" and "Realm of darkness", but only uses Dark World in the menu and reports and stuff, so I think we should treat Dark World as a world in the Realm of darkness, like almost all worlds are part of the Realm of light. So, I think this page should be renamed "Dark World" and cover everything from 0.2 and BBSFM, but the information about the Realm of darkness as a whole should be moved to the Universe of Kingdom Hearts page, where we also have the info for the other realms. Also, I don't think we need to change the links all over the wiki if we just let Realm of darkness redirect to the Universe page. For example, Sora's page says "Sora, Donald, and Goofy attempt to close the door before the Heartless can come through from the Realm of Darkness, ...", where Realm of darkness is linked. Technically, the Dark World is located on the other side of the door, but that doesn't really matter to the story, all that matters is that the Realm of darkness is on the other side. Therefore, we could move the page without having to worry about changing all the links. What do you think? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:24, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
:I agree with Silent on this one. I think the Dark World is a world within the realm of darkness rather than the realm of darkness as a whole. I personally see it as a culmination of the worlds that had been lost to the darkness, and not the realm itself. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 19:31, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
::I was kinda hoping we could get a list of quotes for what the script and reports use, as I did with the rest of the series. I haven't been able to find any transcripts for 0.2 yet.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:47, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

== AFP and component worlds ==

So, the gameicon and navboxes are being used for the four worlds that were devoured by the Realm of Darkness. Do we consider this kosher? I may have asked this before, but are the original worlds actually mentioned? Finally, do we also apply this for stuff like claiming Pride Land in KH1 and Prankster's Paradise in BbS due to Simba and Monstro's battlefields?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
::Okay, so I finally played it, and the setup seems pretty close to how Chain of Memories did it. Therefore, I think "The World Within", "Castle Town", etc. should be listed as worlds in their own right, and plot-wise be treated as subworlds of "Dark World", which would be treated like we treat Castle Oblivion. I'm still not done making a list of how the script itself refers to Dark World/Realm of Darkness, but I encourage anyone else with time to help list the references.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
@@ Line 271: / Line 271: @@
 So, the gameicon and navboxes are being used for the four worlds that were devoured by the Realm of Darkness. Do we consider this kosher? I may have asked this before, but are the original worlds actually mentioned? Finally, do we also apply this for stuff like claiming Pride Land in KH1 and Prankster's Paradise in BbS due to Simba and Monstro's battlefields?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 ::Okay, so I finally played it, and the setup seems pretty close to how Chain of Memories did it. Therefore, I think "The World Within", "Castle Town", etc. should be listed as worlds in their own right, and plot-wise be treated as subworlds of "Dark World", which would be treated like we treat Castle Oblivion. I'm still not done making a list of how the script itself refers to Dark World/Realm of Darkness, but I encourage anyone else with time to help list the references.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
-:::That could work. However, do we consider Castle Town as a part of Castle of Dreams or an entirely new world? And if we do consider them as part of the BBS world, what about Depths of Darkness? Does that count as Destiny Islands, or is that only the actual Destiny Islands part? {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 17:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
-== Corridors of Darkness ==
-Do the corridors of darkness in KH2 or KHUX count as the realm of darkness? If so, we have a lot of enemies to add.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:31, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
-==Aqua's Rescue==
-It's not really well explained in cutscenes, but 'The Three Realms' glossary entry of KH3 says the power of waking can be used to enter the RoD. Should we add that to this page? --[[User:Mikoto|Mikoto]] ([[User talk:Mikoto|talk]]) 21:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
-== Mickey in Twilight Town ==
-''After running into Mickey at Twilight Town, Sora and his friends decide that they must enter the Realm of Darkness to find Riku.''
-When did this happen? I don't exactly recall this conclusion being drawn during their first visit. The three just thought Mickey would know where Riku was. If anything, it ''kind of'' happened during the third visit- but that would mean that line is out of order on the main page. --[[File:Riku Sprite KHD.png]] [[User:Mikoto|mikoto]] 09:18, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
-:Yeah, that's just not true. Actually, Sora seeing Mickey outside the realm of darkness makes him believe Riku got out as well. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)