Editing Forum:Citations

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

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{{Guardian Soul|text=I'm always hearing about how unreliable this wiki is, even though it's gotten so much better.  I think that if we want to take things to the next level, that we really need to start using citations.  Perhaps we can start looking up facts on articles and put references at the bottom of the pages.  Once we do that, people can't just say that we're unreliable any longer.

I'm not entirely certain how the citation system works however, I tried to figure out how it works on wikipedia.  Do we need to set up some sort of template?  I think it's important that we get this worked out.}}

{{DTN|text=I believe that citations are put in the final section of an article. I agree that they are necessary. For example, lots of information on 358/2 Days is coming in, and lots of it is questionable. As it turns out, most of the questionable information comes from YouTube videos. This information would seem less questionable with the use of citations, as well as information from the Startegy Guides. So yes, I agree that citations should become a part of this Wiki.}}
{{BebopKate|text=There are templates for citations; I think the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags work on here, too, and that's pretty easy to use.  And especially with information coming in from outside the games themselves...absolutely.  It might have a side benefit of cutting down some of the overly large Trivia sections.

So we can all be enlightened, in what way is our information unreliable?  Is it on all the new stuff coming in, or is it a more widespread issue?}}
{{Guardian Soul|text=We can't continue to just write information and expect people to take it as fact without giving proof.  Even though our information might be reliable, not everyone knows that.  "What kind of wiki doesn't use citations in their articles?"  I saw a quote such as that somewhere today.  I think people will take the wiki more seriously if we use citations.  I don't mind being the one to go around editing in some citations, but I just want to know for sure how it works.}}
{{Bluer|04:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)|The simplest way, kupo, has been pointed out by KrytenKoro above. And to make it completely working, at the bottom of the article, don't forget to add <nowiki><references /></nowiki>,}}
{{DTN|text=I don't remember KrytenKoro having been in this discussion....}}
{{Bluer|05:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)|Between fixing image templates in another wiki, taking place in discussions that are technical by nature in this wiki and consulting wikia on certain management issues, kupo, I am bound to do an oversight. I apologize for such a grave mistake, kupo, and I do hope that it had not devastated your life to a very apocalyptic extent,}}
{{KrytenKoro|The problem is, not much of the information we add is actually citable. For example, at [[AntiSora]]: the stats are straight from the game, so you can't cite it; the story is straight from the game, so you can't cite it; and the strategy is user-created. The most we could do is cite controversial interpretations of the story to specific quotes from the games or manga, but that's about it. A character's journal entry would be straight from the game as well, so you couldn't cite it. It's just one of the odd things about wikia's, since by their nature the source of most of the information is obvious and thus not citable.

I think the most we could do cite-wise is what's in place with [[Kingdom Key]] - basically, any story element that is either not explicit in the games, or is revealed from an interview.

On a personal note, I would prefer that we use <nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki> instead of the references tag, as it organizes the citations neatly in columns, and makes them small so that they don't look messy (or at least, it's supposed to, the coding might need to be fixed).}}
{{Bluer|06:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)|In actuality, kupo, <nowiki>{{reflist}}</nowiki> is basically a customized <nowiki><references /></nowiki>.

Anyway, I don't see any problem with story/plot elements from the game, kupo, if my experience with Wikipedia had anything to tell me, kupo, it's that citing the game script usually works. I've done that in Wikipedia for most of the game articles there, kupo.}}
{{Guardian Soul|text=We could always use Youtube videos as references for story information, could we not?}}
{{KrytenKoro|My point wasn't that it's ''impossible'' to cite stuff from the games, it's that it would be ''useless''. By virtue of our being a wiki based on the games, and the story sections explicitly being "this is what happened in the games", having little notes every sentence saying "Indeed my good man, this happened in the games." would be overkill. Look at wikipedia's Organization XIII article for an example - they've gone so far as to transcribe entire scenes ''for quotes'' - something that is specifically not how citations work. If you say the character said something, you don't have to provide the entire conversation containing the quote. It's just ridiculous and makes the article look like you didn't have anything actually valuable to cite.

If anyone watches The Soup, I think they actually spent an episode making fun of this. Or maybe it was the Daily Show.}}
{{Guardian Soul|text=Right now, story information for Days needs to be cited.  We don't need to cite every single thing in the game, just important things.

I also fail to see how it would be ridiculous to use quotes as references.  I mean, doing it for every single thing you write doesn't seem necessary, but sometimes there are important elements stated in the game that should be quoted.}}
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 If anyone watches The Soup, I think they actually spent an episode making fun of this. Or maybe it was the Daily Show.}}
-{{Guardian Soul|text=Right now, story information for Days needs to be cited.  We don't need to cite every single thing in the game, just important elements.}}
+{{Guardian Soul|text=Right now, story information for Days needs to be cited.  We don't need to cite every single thing in the game, just important things.
-{{BebopKate|text=On ''Days'' (and ''Birth by Sleep'' when it eventually comes out), absolutely.
-Kryten has voiced the same concerns I have; the subject of this wiki isn't a vast, multimedia empire, or a complex set of books.  It's essentially a set of three (soon to be four) video games and a manga adaption.  On Wikipedia, citing information makes complete sense since it covers such a broad range of topics.  But citing every single little thing on here just seems redundant.  I do think the idea of citing things that have come from other sources, such as interviews, game guides, and so on is quite reasonable.}}
+I also fail to see how it would be ridiculous to use quotes as references.  I mean, doing it for every single thing you write doesn't seem necessary, but sometimes there are important elements stated in the game that should be quoted.}}
-{{Azul|text=I think it was the Daily Show, I don't remember any episode of The Soup doing that... anyways, yes, things revealed in interviews that you wouldn't already know by playing the game should be cited. Do we have reliable sources? We can't use Wikipedia, that's for sure. And can all the stuff we already have that needs to be cited have a source?}}