Talk:Terra-Xehanort

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Good lord why do we have this page.Terra-Xehanort is the same character as Xehanort.

...Have you even read both articles? If so, I believe your opinion would change. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 21:34, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

I have read both articles.--The Dark Master 21:36, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

This page is unessecary.This info belongs on Xehanort's page.--The Dark Master 21:42, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Dude, compare the two. There would be far too much content on just the Xehanort page. Having two similar, but complete pages is better than having one excessivly large page. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 21:51, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

"Oh then in that case we should seperate info on Sora's page since the the info is obivioulsy huge on his page."--The Dark Master 21:54, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Except that one can't be split into two. What other character was Sora? Listen:

1. Terrnort and Xehanort are drastically different. We can't have an article about someone who knew who he was and all of a sudden change that half way through.

1. His role changes drastically in the story after his amnesia.

If you returned to the wiki just to cause arguments, please refrain from doing so. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 22:03, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

I returned to right some issues.Just because someone has amnesia does not mean they are entirley someone else.--The Dark Master 22:07, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

I wasn't saying he was two different people. I meant he was changed EXTREMELY, almost like becoming someone else. Your reasoning is like saying "delete Roxas, because he is just Sora with amnesia". KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 22:08, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Roxas was clearly a different form of Sora.Terra-Xehanort was not a different form of Xehanort.When Xehanort changed it was just changes to his personality we can note this in the article we don't have to spereate it.Be professionals people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Dark Master (talk • contribs)

Why? Roxas didn't remember a thing from before. Neither did Xehanort. In all technicality then, why do we need a Xehanort article? He is, after all, just Terra and Master Xehanort. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 22:15, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Well that is because it has been established that the new incarnation of Xehanort is different from Terra and Master Xehanort well at least by you people.--The Dark Master 22:22, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Exactly. We establish articles logically here. We have devoted hours to the meticulous crafting of every article, template, and page on this wiki. He have held discussions and forums and all manner of conversations to define different things. BECAUSE of this, this page is basically a community decision. If you want to try to change the community's opinion, bring it up on the TWTNW forums, not on a lonely talk page. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 22:26, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Fine I will bring it up on a forum.--The Dark Master 22:27, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

Terra-Xehanort is a being who has Xehanort's heart and soul, Eraqus's heart, and Terra's heart and body. Xehanort is a being who has Terra's body, Xehanort's soul, but not any of the hearts, as those are sealed from it. As far as we can see, it is almost a different type of creature, similar to Maleficent and Dragon Maleficent. They are very, very similar, but are fundamentally different. It's not simple amnesia."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 23:24, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

I'll just note that I was against this from the start, and I never once liked the name, "Terra-Xehanort". I was always content with leaving this info on the Xehanort page and still calling him "Xehanort" or "the new Xehanort", but when I was adding some things about him in BBS like saying he was a "Former Keyblade Master" and putting a picture of Xehanort in Terra's clothes in the infobox (because it was the most recent picture of Xehanort there was) it just kept getting reverted, I began to get fed up. And when KrytenKoro said to me that they were FUNDAMENTALLY different characters, I split the pages in two. To be honest and truthful, I never intended it to be a proper page, it was just to make a mockery of that "fundamentally different" thing, but somehow everyone took me seriously and this is the result. I can't change it back as easily as I split them. Personally, I still call this character "Xehanort". I'm 100% against the name "Terra-Xehanort", but I was the one who made this mess of a change, so I guess I have no say anymore. To everyone out there who's unhappy with this change: I am so sorry, truly. EnglishJoker 05:16, 28 April 2011 (EDT)

Well, to start, Terra/ Xehanort was never a Keyblade Master. That could have started this entire thing. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 15:32, 28 April 2011 (EDT)

That bit wasn't my fault. I innocently believed that since "Terra-Xehanort" carried two hearts, one of an apprentice on par with a Master and the other of a veteran Master, he WAS a Keyblade Master. It was somewhat like 2 + 2, but some people didn't understand so they kept reverting it. That was when KrytenKoro brought up the "fundamentally different" excuse, so I decided to show him what that really meant. As I said, I was just expecting them to revert it instinctively, but this one stayed. EnglishJoker 05:15, 29 April 2011 (EDT)

Re:Merge with Xehanort

Greetings, everyone. Long time, I know, but I think I'd better get this to everyone's attention. The recent trailer of Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance has a scene at the end where Xehanort, in his apprentice clothing, summons Master Xehanort's Keyblade in front of Braig, who asks Xehanort if his memories have returned. Now, I'm not sure exactly if this scene takes place after Xehanort's revival or if it's a flashback to the time just before when Xehanort and the others became the Heartless and Organization XIII, but it's starting to be an indication that Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort are one and the same being. It's been on my mind for quite a while, but I sincerely think that a man with amnesia is NOT a different person than the same man with his memories intact. In all respect and fairness, I suggest we merge this page back with Xehanort and refrain from calling him "Terra-Xehanort" except for when it applies. If not immediately, then in the near future, because sooner or later, he's likely going to get the Keyblade back and we won't know where to put the new information. Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort are the same person, with different memories. That's what I think, at least. EnglishJoker 19:57, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

That's all pretty vague. As your said yourself, we don't know when these scene plays, but that's critical as Kryten explained in his post. Also trailers weren't always the most reliable source in the past.--ShardofTruth 20:55, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, OK, we'll see what happens when the game comes out. I just didn't want this to go unnoticed. I'm still against this page even existing separately from the Xehanort page, though. EnglishJoker 22:12, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

SE specifically gave them different names, though. That's a big piece of evidence towards them being meant to be different beings. I mean, could the guy in the 3D trailer be Terra-Xehanort, but not Xehanort? Does he remember his time without his other memories? All that kinds of nonsense. It's also not just a guy with amnesia -- he sealed off his existing hearts and memories, allowing a new persona to form."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 04:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

It just seems sort of strange that this is applied here but not in the case of when Vanitas fuses with Ventus and becomes Ventus-Vanitas. The only page about Ventus-Vanitas is the boss page, there's no normal page about him anywhere, even though he has more or less the same screentime as Terra-Xehanort. EnglishJoker 16:02, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I believe that's because, as you said, there's not a whole lot to say about him. Also, I am trying to merge the character and enemy templates (hopefully I will have time to finish it eventually), so we will be able to merge a few character and boss articles that are short enough on their own. Basically, don't worry about Ventus-Vanitas, we should just have Ventus-Vanitas and nothing else."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:06, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

That's my point exactly. Here's an example from the DCAU Wiki. In an episode of Batman: The Animated Series, Bruce Wayne briefly goes undercover as a man called Gaff Morgan, with a fake beard and hair dyed white, and he ends up with amnesia, thus with no idea whatsoever that he is Batman or any memory of his parents' death. But the Wiki has no page about Gaff Morgan just because he was Bruce Wayne with an entirely different persona. It just lists the Gaff Morgan persona as one of Batman's aliases. That's my argument about Terra-Xehanort. I think that as of now, he hasn't got enough screen time to warrant a page of his own, just like Ventus-Vanitas. My opinion is that we should just merge the two pages back together, but state at one point that he was previously known as "Terra-Xehanort" before he lost his memories. Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort are basically the same person (it even says it on TX's page), so they should have the same article. True, SE gave them different names, so that's why I think we should merge the pages and refer to Xehanort as "Terra-Xehanort" wherever it applies. EnglishJoker 10:10, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

If that's the case, I'd much rather have the Terra-Xehanort article be the main name—it's more accurate to what the gestalt is, and distinguishes it more clearly from Master Xehanort, who is often just called Xehanort."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe this. What a weird kind of villain we have here, with a handful of names and identities LOL. OK, whatever, as long as the two Xehanort pages become one. Who knows? Maybe we'll end up merging Master Xehanort, Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort into one page: Xehanort. Because all three of those are forms of Xehanort himself, unlike Ansem and Xemnas, who are a Heartless and a Nobody. For the time being, let's try our best to merge these two pages as best as we can, then we'll see if we can make some changes about the Master Xehanort article, like changing it to just "Xehanort", since he's the original, pure form of Xehanort and apparently the true villain of the Xehanort Saga, since he's the one who started it all. EnglishJoker 14:38, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Just curious, is the guidebook the only source we have on Terra-Xehanort's name, or does the Ultimania call him Terra-Xehanort as well? Chitalian8 17:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

The end credits of BBS refer to him as Terra-Xehanort, but I think it was only done to differentiate him from Master Xehanort. EnglishJoker 19:48, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Voting for the merge.

OK, OK, OK EVERYONE!! I THINK IT'S TIME WE STOPPED WITH THE PLEASANTRIES AND JUST VOTED WHETHER OR NOT TO MERGE THIS PAGE BACK WITH THE XEHANORT PAGE!!! And excuse the capital letters because it was the only way to get everyone's attention :).

Merge with Xehanort (and on a side note, the page will be called "Xehanort", I only put the tag on the Xehanort page because the Terra-Xehanort page is locked).

1. They're essentially the same person but with different memories. EnglishJoker 10:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
2. Too similar imo--ShadowsTwilight 20:08, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
3. ABSO-F***ING-LUTELY MERGE. Getting amnesia does not make you a new person, or even persona. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 22:53, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
4. Basically what everyone said. Terra-Xehanort is another Persona though (his angrier, I-will-rule-the-world persona. His amnesia persona is more like "for science!" type), so we may need to split Xehanort's personality section. The17Master 14:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
5. This seems like the best idea of all of them. AS IF! 17:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
6. Makes more sense to me... I suppose... Eternal Nothingness XIII

Do not merge.

Merge into Terra-Xehanort

1. Per reasons stated above. Merging it into Xehanort will just exacerbate the confusion we already have, and make it more difficult to distinguish links from one target to the other. Terra-Xehanort is a more accurate name anyway, along the lines of Ventus-Vanitas and Riku-Ansem."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:20, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
2. This sounds like a better idea. Chitalian8 19:51, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
3. Indeed. KRCCFNF is tired of being STEPPED ON. 23:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
4. If we have to merge before KH3D comes out, at least merge it chronologically. Memories work differently in KH, simple amnesia just doesn't cut it. --ShardofTruth 12:53, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
5. Oh what the hell, if we're gonna change then let's change to the right thing, he had three different names as this is the first name and the only one to be used before the amnesia it should be considered the right one. Xabryn 00:04, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
6. Meh. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 14:35, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Can we stop this for a second? I really think that this should wait until 3D is released it might give us more information over Xehanort's persona, I mean can you imagine the mess that it is gonna cause if we merge the pages and 3D shows us that the two are actually different personas? Xabryn 11:26, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

It won't make that much of a mess. There's hardly anything on this page anyway. If we merge the two pages and DDD shows that they're different (which I sincerely doubt, since amnesia hardly leads to two different personas), we'll do something about it. I split them once, I'll do it again. EnglishJoker 12:32, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

If you're going to split them anyways, then keep them split anyways. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Erry 12:38, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

No one said I was going to split them again anyway. These two pages should have stayed as one in the first place. It was my mistake to split them at all. That's why I'm trying my best to rectify it, since not everyone on the wiki is happy with it. EnglishJoker 12:40, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

@GB I would agree that merging it into Terra-Xehanort would make sense, except he later takes up the name "Xehanort", making it more of an "Ansem, SoD" deal--ShadowsTwilight 14:25, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

But the thing is, he's never referred to once as "Terra-Xehanort", save for the end credits of BBS, which I think was to differentiate him from Master Xehanort. Since he's best known to fans as "Xehanort", I think it's best to merge them into Xehanort but call him "Terra-Xehanort" whenever it applies. It never once created confusion when the articles were one, and the "Master Xehanort" clearly says that he is the "original incarnation" of Xehanort, so there won't be any reason for fans to get mixed up. EnglishJoker 17:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

This wiki doesn't name pages based on what the subjects are known as in the fandom, look at Lingering Will and Vanitas Remnant. He's called Xehanort in the KH2 Journal and Terra-Xehanort in BBS, so we have two sources for the name. Chitalian8 17:36, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who had to clean up a lot of misplaced links, it clearly caused plenty of confusion. Furthermore, Master Xehanort is called simply Xehanort several times in Birth by Sleep. His name of "Xehanort" in KHII and at the end of Birth by Sleep is explicitly due to confusion--at the one point that he knows what he actually is, he is called "Terra-Xehanort" by the game and guide. And again, the name is absolutely more accurate in describing who and what he is--a fusion of Terra and Xehanort's hearts and souls within Terra's body.

In regards to the parallel to Ansem, SoD: That would apply if BbS hadn't clarified that the thing is called "Terra-Xehanort". If KH3D readdresses this by calling the gestalt "Xehanort", then we move the page back to Xehanort. However, our available info tells us that "Terra-Xehanort" is the current and most accurate name for the beast, and if it comes down to a choice between the two, Terra-Xehanort is much easier to use on the wiki."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 17:43, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Saying it comes to that (though it doesn't seem likely since most are voting for the merge with Xehanort), then I think maybe "Xehanort" should be a disambiguation page. Like, "Xehanort is the main antagonist of the Xehanort Saga, but appears in various forms, such as the following: Master Xehanort, Terra-Xehanort, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, and Xemnas.? EnglishJoker 18:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

I still prefer "Xehanort", since that's all anyone's been calling him in KHII and the ending of KHBBS (and it would seem also in the trailer for KH3D), but I can see how it would make sense to put it under "Terra-Xehanort", too. That would be my next choice. Basically, the important thing for me is that there be a merge. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 19:14, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

That sounds golden. To be fair to who's voting for what, though, you did add that clarification after those votes had been placed. Those voters should check to make sure that they want their votes counted as such."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:15, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know. I had made my point several times that I thought the entire thing should be called "Xehanort", but I decided to put the clarification in case anyone got mixed up. But then again, if any of those guys want the page to be called "Terra-Xehanort", they can always change their votes. But as Nuemannz said, he's been called "Xehanort" mostly, and that's the name most fans are used to. And that thing about the Lingering Sentiment/Will part is a bit different, because the "Lingering Sentiment" was a direct Japanese translation, almost fanmade, but we changed it to "Will" because of the "Will's Cage" we found in the hacking, and thus slightly more reliable. EnglishJoker 21:17, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Shinen, in its most basic form, means "thoughts". "Thoughts" has a closer meaning to "Will" than "Sentiment". But I'm getting off track. Chitalian8 21:30, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Really? I always thought that "Thoughts" was closer to "Sentiments" and "Feelings", stuff like that. "Will" sounds more like a determination, a willingness to get something done, more than just a sentiment. I always liked "Lingering Sentiment" better than "Lingering Will", but I guess it's because I was more used to the first one. But still, let's try and stick to the Xehanort page thing. EnglishJoker 21:44, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

ANYWAY, EVERYONE!!! WE'VE GOT OURSELVES A FEW VOTES!! HOW LONG SHALL WE KEEP THE VOTE GOING UNTIL WE MAKE A DECISION!?!?!?!? And again, excuse the capitals. Just for attention :). EnglishJoker 21:48, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Well let's see, it started around 5:00 yesterday (in my timezone at least) so I think to be fair we should end it at that time tomorrow, at least I think that's fair, anyone else got an idea?--ShadowsTwilight 01:53, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

That'll be around 10:30 tomorrow morning in my timezone, I think. EnglishJoker 08:16, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, anyone else? Objections? Alternative suggestions?--ShadowsTwilight 11:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I guess we just ought to wait and see if any more people vote. By the way, just in case the merge with Xehanort wins, we should unprotect the Terra-Xehanort page soon. EnglishJoker 12:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Anyone else feel we've waited long enough?--ShadowsTwilight 01:58, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

It's already gone 10:30 my timezone, and the merge with Xehanort won. I think it's time we merged the pages now. EnglishJoker 09:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

COME ON EVERYONE!! THE MERGE WITH XEHANORT WON THE VOTE!! TIME TO UNPROTECT THE TERRA-XEHANORT PAGE AND MERGE IT WITH THE XEHANORT PAGE!!!! (Just to get everyone's attention again XD) EnglishJoker 13:12, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Like I said earlier, you specified that "to Xehanort" thing after almost all of those votes had already been cast. You need to get each of those guys to confirm that that's what they meant to vote for."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:27, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Kryten. I didn't see your post until after I did that. Well at least we have a draft of what the page will look like if we have to merge them. EnglishJoker 15:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Just saying, I stand by my vote. We should merge Terra-Xehanort to Xehanort. The17Master 15:53, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Ditto @EJ well look at the bright side, if it wins then all we'll have to do is undo the undo, if not, well then we just copy whatever changes you made onto the Terra-Xehanort page.--ShadowsTwilight 18:16, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the beauty of it. But how long should we keep this up? I mean, it's been a few days since I made the whole thing clear and no one seems to have changed their mind except "As if!", who thought my suggestion was best. EnglishJoker 21:03, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

WE'RE INTO OCTOBER NOW AND THE ONLY CHANGE IS NOW A TIE BETWEEN MERGING INTO XEHANORT AND MERGING INTO TERRA-XEHANORT!!!! WHAT DO WE DO NOW EVERYONE!?!?!?!? EnglishJoker 08:21, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Sudden death?--ShadowsTwilight 14:20, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

DAMNIT! *sigh* alright people, we're already in october, and there is a clear winner, can we close the voting now?--ShadowsTwilight 15:00, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and yes, I confirm that is what I meant to vote for. -- AS IF! 16:18, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

....sooo, all the needed to be done was to ping those people and confirm their votes, but...it looks like that's not necessary anymore. Well, go ahead and merge then."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:15, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd be more than glad to do it, but since the merge into Terra-Xehanort won the vote, we'll need to unprotect that page before any merging can be done. Any help please? EnglishJoker 20:30, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

jeebus cripes and we're back into a tie--ShadowsTwilight 20:33, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

The vote already finished, Terra-Xehanort won, and Neumannz unlocked the page so that they could be merged. Just finish it as it was."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 01:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

How typical. I merge the pages and it gets back into a frigging tie. Oh well, what's done is done. Hope you like it. EnglishJoker 12:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)