Talk:Dark Riku

Needs a page

Since Dark Riku is confirmed to be a separate character for Kingdom Hearts III the redirect to Dark Mode needs to be removed so a page can be set up. -Adv193 (talk) 22:14, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Should Dream Drop Distance count

Since the game revealed that the original Riku Replica's heart had been with Riku's the entire time should anyone consider that it was Dark Riku, and not Riku Replica who appeared in Prankster's Paradise in Dream Drop Distance. -Adv193 (talk) 15:47, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Does it make sense, timeline wise? It's my understanding that Vexen was not brought back until after DDD, so this Riku replica wasn't made yet. That would also make Demyx one of the members in the Round Room, and the Riku we see in Monstro a product of the dream? Also, didn't the Riku Replica say he joined Riku after wandering the Realm of Darkness? Joveus (talk) 16:07, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Not that I am disagreeing, but for argument's sake I would point out that Ienzo states that Even went missing shortly after Lea left Radiant Garden (so when he went to Disney Castle and helped Mickey save Minnie from Pete and Maleficent). After this point and up until part way through KHIII, Dilan and Aeleus had been turning Radiant Garden upside-down looking for Even. Also for argument's sake, Demyx doesn't appear and make mention of being benched due to the incorporation of the Replicas until after Arendelle in KHIII, so it's really anyone's guess. Demyx, though, would definitely be among the twelve who appeared in KHDDD. (Levi657 (talk) 00:43, 14 February 2019 (UTC))

In KHDDD Riku says that the cloaked Riku in Prankster's Paradise was his "dark side" and that now he was "facing himself" rather than Ansem or Riku Replica. In KH3 it's thought by Riku (and other characters) that Dark Riku is the evil him from the past. I think it's pretty clear from Riku's words in the two games that the cloaked Riku in DDD was Dark Riku. --Vanitas (talk) 22:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Except that Riku was completely and totally unaware that Xehanort was working to create another Organization and so was only speaking in a metaphorical sense rather than a literal one. Also, in KH3, Riku made no mention of the him that he saw in Monstro. Rex Ronald Rilander (talk) 04:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Sora didn't mention seeing Vanitas in Cloches, either. The callback seems pretty blatant -- he thinks its him from Hollow Bastion in Monstro, and then they all continue to think so until the good Riku Replica says "no, idiots, it's me"."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:12, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Sora does actually mention having seen Vanitas in Cloches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJsgZyLWSro 0:24 - JTD95 (talk) 13:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, so he does. Still, even if Riku thought it was just a vision, it clearly leaves through a corridor of darkness, and it's wearing the cloak same as KH3 Dark Riku. I think the parallel is obvious (and once again, I bring up my argument that this was always meant to be Riku Replica, based on what Riku mentions afterward, and getting the KH CoM memento parallel to how Vanitas gave the KH BbS memento). I suppose we could wait for the ultimania, but...we spend KH3D being introduced to new members of the Org, this guy shows up and acts like a new member of the org, and then in KH3 lo and behold someone who looks exactly like this guy (with yellow eyes) shows up as a member of the org."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:44, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I guess I'm just confused on the timeline. In KH3 it seems like Vexen only just completed his new replicas, giving the organization its final two members. We see Even in DDD and he's unconscious, so he can't have joined the Org and created the replicas, right? But then at the same time all the bodies of the time-travelling Xehanorts are implied in 3 to be replica bodies, but they also appeared in DDD, so if Vexen was still Even, how did we interact with Ansem SoD and Xemnas at all? And if Even wasn't Vexen yet, and Xion and who were the 12 Organization members that appeared in TWTNW in DDD? LightRoxas 13:54, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

That is a fair point, yeah. Since it's just the hearts that are time-travelling, maybe they upgraded to new replica bodies after KH3D? (I mean, the real answer is that SE wanted to shoehorn a traitor into the org and had to figure out how to get Vexen in there, and continuously forget to keep a series bible and so don't keep track of this shit...)"We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 14:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

When Riku sees Dark Riku at the graveyard he exclaims "You!" in a manner indicating that he had seen him before, and since this was their first meeting in KHIII he could only recognize him from DDD. --Vanitas (talk) 23:51, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Not Riku Replica

Why are we claiming that this is a separate character from Riku Replica? My understanding was that it was Riku Replica, just from the period that he was brainwashed."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 16:21, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I am confused by this, as well. The game goes to great lengths to make us believe this is Riku from when Ansem possessed him, or rather, his heart inside a replica's body. Then the scene in Keyblade Graveyard takes place, in which we are supposed to think this is another version of the Riku Replica inside Riku's heart (from KHCoM). Even after this, the game still calls this guy "Dark Riku" and says nothing to suggest it is the Riku Replica. Only the "possessed Riku" stuff remains... - Eternal Nothingness XIII 16:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

For time-traveling they need a piece of Xehanort's heart, because Xehanort got time travel powers. Riku Replica doesn't have Xehanort's heart in him, so it would make more sense to be Riku from when Ansem possessed him. The game is pretty vague about this, though. Hopefully the Ultimania will provide a solid answer. TheSilentHero 18:03, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to back up KrystenKoro. This is not Riku from when Ansem possessed him at all. This is a time travelling Riku Replica from when he was still brainwashed. First of all, the scene when Dark Riku is defeated is very clear. Riku Replica says clearly that Dark Riku is him, and not Riku-Ansem (also backed up by the fact that Dark Riku goes full "I'm the real one, not you" to Riku, just like Riku Replica did). As for the rest, Dark Riku is thought to be Riku-Ansem by Sora, which is normal (let's not forget that Sora do not remember the events of COM, so he can't remember Riku Replica and think about him); and by Mickey & Riku before Yen Sid's arrival (they prolly thought Dark Riku being Riku-Ansem is the most obvious choice?). For the time-traveling part, let's not forget that in DDD, it was proven that Young Xehanort was the one who went back in time to retrive all the other Xehanort, before turning them into vessel for Master Xehanort. The same prolly happened there. Lady Junky (talk) 09:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Someone did comparisons of the EN and JP dialogue here, with the implication being (but not confirmed, so best to keep it off the page for now) that this is essentially the “dark” half of Riku Replica, with the one seen talking to Riku occasionally being the “light” half (kinda similar to a Ventus/Vanitas situation). Ultima Spark (talk) 10:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Agreed with the idea that this isn't Dark Riku, it's the Replica. He mutters "I'm the real one..." when you beat him which was the replica's line, then the replica inside Riku (the good one) says that "it's me." Time travel doesn't even need to happen because the Replica faded to darkness and we've seen instances when that didn't count as death before.

In either case we probably do need to wait until we get more info, though I'd also be up for changing this to the Replica page based just on the quotes upon his defeat. Whatever works. LightRoxas 00:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

We need to wait. Regardless of the what the dialogue suggests, the Journal and other aspects of the game do not support this. Ultimania is our go-to source, and that comes out in a couple weeks. - Eternal Nothingness XIII 00:10, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

The San Fransokyo and Keyblade Graveyard story sections of the journal refer to Dark Riku as being a replica (rather than a time-traveling Riku), and also as being a separate entity from Riku Replica (in that it calls Riku Replica a "third Riku" entering the fray). --Vanitas (talk) 23:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I mean, it would be, it's a third body. It can still be a Master Xehanort/Young Xehanort situation. Hell, they already have Ansem, and he's technically using Riku's body."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 00:10, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

I feel that the game goes pretty far out of its way to clarify that Dark Riku is not the same as the original Riku Replica. Despite the dialogue from San Fransokyo onwards attempting to mislead the player into thinking that this Riku is a time-traveller from his time possessed as Ansem, an interval actually explicitly states otherwise. Specifically, "Interval VI-2: The Keyblade Graveyard", in which Marluxia states: "Vexen's latest replicas are no mere puppets. The Riku replica we used in Castle Oblivion was just a prototype. The next replica, the one crafted from Sora's memories, was real enough to join our ranks." - Truthful-Sentiment (talk) 04:47, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Marluxia is pretty clearly talking about Xion, there."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 13:13, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I kinda tend to agree... --Samoa Joe (talk) 13:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Considering Xion was created before the Riku Replica in Castle Oblivion, I can't agree that she's what Marluxia is referring to here. I can see why you might think that, but can't agree. - Truthful-Sentiment (talk) 10:40, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

"In my work on the Replica Program for the Organization, I produced some twenty vessels. Most of the early results were failures, not one of them granted a number. The first success to emerge from that early lot was the Riku replica. Subsequently, Xion (No. i) was essentially indistinguishable from a natural human, though she became unstable due to the influence of others."

Marluxia is talking about Xion. That's not me "thinking that", that's what the game makes absolutely clear. I'm unclear where you got the idea that Xion was created after Riku Replica, as even in Days Vexen states she is his finest Replica, and the first one to gain number status."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 15:08, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Ultimania confirms that it is the time-traveling heart of the Riku Replica from after it was first made, in a new body. Whether that makes it a new being entirely or not is up to interpretation, I guess. Given that it is continually called Dark Riku in all material, including the game and the Ultimania, I'd say it's considered a separate being, but we should be upfront that it is a time traveling heart of the Replica, not of Riku. LightRoxas 18:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I changed the page to say it's a time-traveling Riku Replica. I'm not sure if it deserves its own page. I would say it does, because the original Riku Replica is a different character that also appears in KH3. TheSilentHero 18:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Heeeeeeeey, that's two out of three. Nice.

If we're considering this a separate character, I'd say we'd have to treat Ansem SoD, Xemnas, and any other time travelers as separate characters as well. So, Ansem (Replica) and Xemnas (Replica). Probably Roxas and Xion too. Which, I mean, I'm fine with. They behave significantly differently from their original incarnations."We're werewolves, not swearwolves." (KrytenKoro) 19:44, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I feel like we're getting into touchy philosophical territory here - for Ansem, Xemnas, Roxas, Xion, it's still them with their original hearts and all their memories. We're kind of debating what determines what a living thing actually is at this point.