Talk:Unversed: Difference between revisions
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Heartless started within the timeline of Kingdom hearts 1. so they had to have something else. [[User:Zack fair 007|Zack fair 007]] 23:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC) | Heartless started within the timeline of Kingdom hearts 1. so they had to have something else. [[User:Zack fair 007|Zack fair 007]] 23:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC) | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=But here's a thought, guys : in the Another Side Another Story trailer, they explicitly mentioned "The Third Enemy - Nobody" meaning to say that the Heartless were already intended to be the second. The first would be the Unbirths, I guess.}} | ||
You think that the mad hatter's song " A Very Merry '''Unbirthday'''" has anything to do with | You think that the mad hatter's song " A Very Merry '''Unbirthday'''" has anything to do with | ||
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But we don't even know MX is Xehanorts unbirth, and a lot of people think Terra is Xehanorts unbirth. | But we don't even know MX is Xehanorts unbirth, and a lot of people think Terra is Xehanorts unbirth. | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Master Xehanort and Xehanort may be connected to each other but MX is ''definitely not''' Xehanort's unbirth. I mean, look at their age !}} | ||
==Idea== | ==Idea== | ||
I think that when a Nobody meets with it's original being ( Such as when Roxas meets with Sora ) the nobody goes back to the normal soul, meaning that the nobody is non- existint anymore, resulting in the nobody being unborn. ( Namine and Roxas are exceptions ) When this happens, another being is created. But instead of one occurence = one heartless/nobody, it creates one unbirth with the power to multiply. Every time this happens, the original unbirth goes to a certain world. When it reaches this world, it starts multiplying. When the original unbirth is defeated, the other unbirth's are destroyed also.[[User:Master of Valor|Master of Valor]] 00:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC) | I think that when a Nobody meets with it's original being ( Such as when Roxas meets with Sora ) the nobody goes back to the normal soul, meaning that the nobody is non- existint anymore, resulting in the nobody being unborn. ( Namine and Roxas are exceptions ) When this happens, another being is created. But instead of one occurence = one heartless/nobody, it creates one unbirth with the power to multiply. Every time this happens, the original unbirth goes to a certain world. When it reaches this world, it starts multiplying. When the original unbirth is defeated, the other unbirth's are destroyed also.[[User:Master of Valor|Master of Valor]] 00:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=You mean as in a neverending circle of threats ?}} | ||
[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster says]]- Ralfiki did said that its the Circle of Life | [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster says]]- Ralfiki did said that its the Circle of Life | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=That was the Circle of '''Life''' lol ! This is like some sorta circle of death !}} | ||
==Just a thought== | ==Just a thought== | ||
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[[Image:Unbirth.png|thumb|]][[Image:Unbirth2.png|thumb|]] | [[Image:Unbirth.png|thumb|]][[Image:Unbirth2.png|thumb|]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Methinks they are. By the way, Shadows are the main Heartless and their Nobody counterparts are the Creepers. The Heartless counterparts of Dusks are the Neoshadows.}} | ||
{{Xiggie|text=Oh, yeah, that's right. Thank you :D}} | {{Xiggie|text=Oh, yeah, that's right. Thank you :D}} | ||
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[[Image:Large_Body_Unbirth.PNG|thumb|175px]] | [[Image:Large_Body_Unbirth.PNG|thumb|175px]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Quite plausible, but who '''could''' be making those Unbirths ? I know the Generic (Shadow equivalent) and Neo (Neoshadow equivalent) Unbirths look about the same as their Heartless counterparts.}} | ||
{{Xiggie|text=yeah, the one that "could" do it might perhaps be MX apprentice (Or Terra (Whoever becomes Xehanort). he could have worked on it (Secretly?) but then something must have happened to stop the Unbirths for good and when he lost his memory (perhaps he didn't loose all of it) he kept on his work but since Unbirths were no more, he worked with heartless and eventually became one. | {{Xiggie|text=yeah, the one that "could" do it might perhaps be MX apprentice (Or Terra (Whoever becomes Xehanort). he could have worked on it (Secretly?) but then something must have happened to stop the Unbirths for good and when he lost his memory (perhaps he didn't loose all of it) he kept on his work but since Unbirths were no more, he worked with heartless and eventually became one. | ||
Tell me if this is just some of my crazy imagination acting up again :D}} | Tell me if this is just some of my crazy imagination acting up again :D}} | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=I don't think it's your imagination. There're quite a few theories on who becomes Xehanort. '''But''' maybe, Terra isn't Xehanort. Clarkmaster, take a look at this ! Maybe Terra isn't Xehanort because Xehanort was with Braig (who is later known as Xigbar). And in The World That Never Was, Xigbar says "You're not half the hero the others were", and Nomura says he '''did''' have a showdown with Terra, Ven and Aqua. If Xehanort was with Braig and Braig had a showdown with all three of them, then Xehanort is '''not''' Terra.}} | ||
{{Xiggie|text=That's right! (I think)}} | {{Xiggie|text=That's right! (I think)}} | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=The thing about Square Enix and Kingdom Hearts is that even the impossible could happen. :D So let's not keep our expectations too high, ya ?}} | ||
{{Xiggie|text=Although, it could be that Xehanort/Xemnas just told Braig/Xigbar about them! just a thought of mine :P}} | {{Xiggie|text=Although, it could be that Xehanort/Xemnas just told Braig/Xigbar about them! just a thought of mine :P}} | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=If you ask me, I've got no idea anymore. First I thought Terra was Xehanort, then I thought he wasn't, then I refuted someone's theory, then I brought back the Terra=Xehanort idea, and now I reject it again...}} | ||
== not just the soul == | == not just the soul == | ||
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now for some reason not every heartless spawns a nobody my theroy is this if a heartless is formed it affects the soul in such a way that it will move. if the soul sticks with the body you get a nobody if the soul gose with the heart instead of geting a heartless you get an unbirth. of course its also likely that if the soul will chose neither in wich case you get one heartless and a dead body. this would explain why heartless are more abundent then the other 2 | now for some reason not every heartless spawns a nobody my theroy is this if a heartless is formed it affects the soul in such a way that it will move. if the soul sticks with the body you get a nobody if the soul gose with the heart instead of geting a heartless you get an unbirth. of course its also likely that if the soul will chose neither in wich case you get one heartless and a dead body. this would explain why heartless are more abundent then the other 2 | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=It should '''only''' be the soul, because remember what Nomura himself said ? An Unbirth is '''the opposite of human life''', so when you lose your soul, you die, and an Unbirth is created. For a human to be born, the Unbirth should die. By actually coining the theory you're contradicting yourself, aren't you ?}} | ||
[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster thunk]]Since Troisnyxetienne is right than that means Ven is NOT soras unbirth, unless the game takes place 14 years before kh 1 | [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster thunk]]Since Troisnyxetienne is right than that means Ven is NOT soras unbirth, unless the game takes place 14 years before kh 1 | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=But here's '''another thought''': The game takes some years before KH1. Terra and Ven are on the Main Island of Destiny Islands and Ven begs Terra to erase him. And Terra is also seen '''alone''' on Destiny Islands, watching young Sora and Riku train with their toy swords. There is a high possibility that this could've taken place more than ten years before KH1.}} | ||
And that would be the end of Ven's story, wouldn't it? That defintley means Ven is an unbirth, and if that's true than the first major unbirth seen is Ven so riku has no major importance to BBS as of yet, so Terra has got to be Xehanort![[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster been thinkin]] | And that would be the end of Ven's story, wouldn't it? That defintley means Ven is an unbirth, and if that's true than the first major unbirth seen is Ven so riku has no major importance to BBS as of yet, so Terra has got to be Xehanort![[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster been thinkin]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=I'm putting the pieces together in the next section. Do watch the page along with me. At the same time, whoever's got access to what Nomura says about Terra, Ven, Aqua and Xehanort, kindly put it up here.}} | ||
==Guys, let's put the pieces together== | ==Guys, let's put the pieces together== | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Okay. Let's seam everything together and see what we get: | ||
*We know that Birth By Sleep takes place at least ten years before KHI. | *We know that Birth By Sleep takes place at least ten years before KHI. | ||
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We can say that Terra's a jackass just like Xehanort, but seriously, We can put together that Terra is the only one able to be Xehanort, Ven is Sora's Unbirth, we have no clue who is Aqua, the apprentice looks like Dark form Riku, and that apperintly we are very good at puttin stuff together-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | We can say that Terra's a jackass just like Xehanort, but seriously, We can put together that Terra is the only one able to be Xehanort, Ven is Sora's Unbirth, we have no clue who is Aqua, the apprentice looks like Dark form Riku, and that apperintly we are very good at puttin stuff together-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=LOL you got me on that one. :D Who '''IS''' Aqua anyway ? I guess Nomura must've done a good job doing her up because not a single soul can speculate who she is.}} | ||
Well as far as we know, she died, or turned into heartless/nobody/unbirth because of her armor in Xemnas room, I've also seen that Xemnas in armor form vagly resembles Terra in his armor-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Well as far as we know, she died, or turned into heartless/nobody/unbirth because of her armor in Xemnas room, I've also seen that Xemnas in armor form vagly resembles Terra in his armor-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=What puzzles me the most is that Aqua's armour actually '''responded''' to Xemnas.}} | ||
Well, there's two ways this could happen, one: her soul is possesing the armor, two: Xemnas is crazy-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Well, there's two ways this could happen, one: her soul is possesing the armor, two: Xemnas is crazy-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|happytext=ROTFLMAO. :D Sounds plausible.}} | ||
I vote on him being crazy, but what I just thought the two heartless optional bosses, phantom and kurt ziza, they could be the apprintece-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | I vote on him being crazy, but what I just thought the two heartless optional bosses, phantom and kurt ziza, they could be the apprintece-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
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When Xigbar is talking to Zexion about the room of sleep (Where Aqua's armor is), he is ends by saying that: Maybe, in Calstle Oblivion, that's where the "other" room is. (Or something like that) What could be in the Other room? [[User:Shg.siggi|Xiggie]] | When Xigbar is talking to Zexion about the room of sleep (Where Aqua's armor is), he is ends by saying that: Maybe, in Calstle Oblivion, that's where the "other" room is. (Or something like that) What could be in the Other room? [[User:Shg.siggi|Xiggie]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=What I know about the other room is that it's called the '''Room of Awakening''', and it is definitely in Castle Oblivion. Not sure what's in there, but that could've been the reason why Xemnas chose Castle Oblivion as an operating base in the first place.}} | ||
Well the '''awakening''' could be what sora and roxas had to go through, exactly why I dont remember, but it could be the awakening of the only one that's missing, Ven, so that could further help explain Ven choosing '''Way to Dawn''' as the castle was in the '''nobody''' castle, a castle of twilight- [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Well the '''awakening''' could be what sora and roxas had to go through, exactly why I dont remember, but it could be the awakening of the only one that's missing, Ven, so that could further help explain Ven choosing '''Way to Dawn''' as the castle was in the '''nobody''' castle, a castle of twilight- [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Maybe so. But the castle wasn't originally theirs, I'd say. No doubt, Castle Oblivion is situated in the Realm of In Between. They just came upon it, and seeing that no one actually had possession of the castle, they used it for themselves.}} | ||
Ok, but technacly they are nobodies so '''no one''' is actually '''living''' there, but I get what your saying, so what are the unbirth atributes? Heartless=Darkness. Nobodies=Nothingness/Twilight. Sora and friends=Light.-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Ok, but technacly they are nobodies so '''no one''' is actually '''living''' there, but I get what your saying, so what are the unbirth atributes? Heartless=Darkness. Nobodies=Nothingness/Twilight. Sora and friends=Light.-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=I suppose that, only Nomura knows. But what's the opposite of human life ? We can choose whichever power we want for ourselves, so to speak. If the Nobodies were a menace to beings of '''both''' Light and Darkness, then the Unbirths might've been a menace to them all - and them all here means all realms !}} | ||
I thank you nailed it at '''menace'''. If you can't controll something powerful, than it causes '''chaos''' and if they're is a realm of chaos than the keyblade and its weilder would have to be one of the five new keyblade weilders from Birth By Sleep-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | I thank you nailed it at '''menace'''. If you can't controll something powerful, than it causes '''chaos''' and if they're is a realm of chaos than the keyblade and its weilder would have to be one of the five new keyblade weilders from Birth By Sleep-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Sweet, a realm of chaos ! :D Now what, find Keyblade Master #5 in the sequel ?}} | ||
Well, if all of the keblade Masters die or something in birth by sleep than there's gotta be a sequel with a keyblade master[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Well, if all of the keblade Masters die or something in birth by sleep than there's gotta be a sequel with a keyblade master[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=In that case, a Keyblade master apart from Sora, Riku, Kairi and Mickey. Now, who could be that chaotic ?}} | ||
Of course, but that would mean another major character, the revealing of Ven, Terra, and Aqua to Sora and the revealing of the new [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Of course, but that would mean another major character, the revealing of Ven, Terra, and Aqua to Sora and the revealing of the new [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Well, Xehanort's apprentice was seen wielding a Keyblade.}} | ||
Lol, we all totally got off track, but let's look at this. Xigbar seems to know the most about all this Birth by Sleep stuff, followed by Xemnas. So maybe Braig is the reason why Xehanort lost his memories. It could also explain why Xemnas and Xigbar never seem to like eachother. Another theory, is that Xehanort IS Terra, explaining the similar looks, and Braig was supposed to be like a keyblade master, but instead Terra was picked instead, and Braig did the same thing Riku did with Sora in KH1, and then they became friends again... I probably sound crazy, but from my point of view... no I am crazy-- Morghman | Lol, we all totally got off track, but let's look at this. Xigbar seems to know the most about all this Birth by Sleep stuff, followed by Xemnas. So maybe Braig is the reason why Xehanort lost his memories. It could also explain why Xemnas and Xigbar never seem to like eachother. Another theory, is that Xehanort IS Terra, explaining the similar looks, and Braig was supposed to be like a keyblade master, but instead Terra was picked instead, and Braig did the same thing Riku did with Sora in KH1, and then they became friends again... I probably sound crazy, but from my point of view... no I am crazy-- Morghman | ||
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:Maybe they (Ven, Terra, Aqua) didn't die but were passed one as the infulence of the next generation, but Terra apperantly goes evil, Riku, the '''origanil''' realm of light keyblader master, goes temporay evil, leaving the realm of light to chose Sora as, unlike Ven, the keyblade master of light, leaving Darkside to Aqua and Mickey, and the left over keyblade, Way to Dawn to Riku as, like Ven (I guess?), chose the road in between-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | :Maybe they (Ven, Terra, Aqua) didn't die but were passed one as the infulence of the next generation, but Terra apperantly goes evil, Riku, the '''origanil''' realm of light keyblader master, goes temporay evil, leaving the realm of light to chose Sora as, unlike Ven, the keyblade master of light, leaving Darkside to Aqua and Mickey, and the left over keyblade, Way to Dawn to Riku as, like Ven (I guess?), chose the road in between-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Well, as they say... you could save the world or wry ruin upon it with one single Keyblade. Someone's actually gotta control those Keyblades for there to be a war, right ?}} | ||
Not necessarily. If the Keyblade can choose it's own master, why can't it fight by itself? And I didn't really mean a physical battle, I meant that the Keyblade War could possiley have been the interal power struggle between Light and Darkness for supremessy, thus creating the Keyblades of each Realm.-[[User:Xnaminex|xNaminéx]] | Not necessarily. If the Keyblade can choose it's own master, why can't it fight by itself? And I didn't really mean a physical battle, I meant that the Keyblade War could possiley have been the interal power struggle between Light and Darkness for supremessy, thus creating the Keyblades of each Realm.-[[User:Xnaminex|xNaminéx]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=The Keyblade chooses its master, but definitely not its domain. It's ultimately up to the master to choose between light and darkness. So that's particularly why I said someone's gotta control these Keyblades for there to be a war. | ||
Think about the time Riku chose the Realm of In Between and maybe you'd understand.}} | Think about the time Riku chose the Realm of In Between and maybe you'd understand.}} | ||
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-[[User:Xnaminex|xNaminéx]] | -[[User:Xnaminex|xNaminéx]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=There, I got you at "Riku chose darkness" - ultimately, it's a choice. The Keyblade has immense power, but how does one choose to use it ? | ||
Veroso : Perhaps. But I have a feeling Terra may not be Xehanort. See above. If it's Terra's Keyblade acting on its own, where did the wielder come from ?}} | Veroso : Perhaps. But I have a feeling Terra may not be Xehanort. See above. If it's Terra's Keyblade acting on its own, where did the wielder come from ?}} | ||
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So who is Xehanort? The second most probable suspect seems to be MX's apprentice. [[User:Veroso|Veroso]] 02:50, 27 January, 2009 | So who is Xehanort? The second most probable suspect seems to be MX's apprentice. [[User:Veroso|Veroso]] 02:50, 27 January, 2009 | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Maybe so. I can't say for sure. But well, he seems suspicious enough. Same bodysuit as Riku's, same attribute and alignment as always - darkness - and always willing to take the protagonist out. Whadaya think ?}} | ||
He's apperantly dark, possiby one of the later Org. XIII members, Xehanort, defentley not a final fantasy character, but each weilder has a new generation version, Ven=Sora. Terra=Riku. Aqua=Kairi/Mickey (due to the Darkside). So the question is, Who in Kh1, CoM, and Kh2 is the equevelint of The Apperintance?-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | He's apperantly dark, possiby one of the later Org. XIII members, Xehanort, defentley not a final fantasy character, but each weilder has a new generation version, Ven=Sora. Terra=Riku. Aqua=Kairi/Mickey (due to the Darkside). So the question is, Who in Kh1, CoM, and Kh2 is the equevelint of The Apperintance?-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=No idea. Methinks he'd come out in the sequel to Birth By Sleep, Days and Coded.}} | ||
Isn't it obvious? Saix and the Guardian all remind you of the Apprentice! 13:44, 28 January, 2009 [[User:Veroso|Veroso]] | Isn't it obvious? Saix and the Guardian all remind you of the Apprentice! 13:44, 28 January, 2009 [[User:Veroso|Veroso]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=The Guardian, perhaps. But Saix has '''absolutely nothing''' gotta do with the Apprentice.}} | ||
Saix has no keyblade, but the Guardian could be a side affect from Xehanort's Heartless powers, any one thinking anti-sora?[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Saix has no keyblade, but the Guardian could be a side affect from Xehanort's Heartless powers, any one thinking anti-sora?[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Or maybe anti-anyone of the three Keyblade knights...}} | ||
Well, Aqua's out. Terra's muslcel structure seems bigger, Ven seem a canident-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Well, Aqua's out. Terra's muslcel structure seems bigger, Ven seem a canident-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=No, wait, it '''cannot''' be. Xehanort and his apprentice were seen apart from Terra, Ven and Aqua. It '''has''' to be someone else.}} | ||
Sora, Riku, Roxas, Mickey, and Kairi are 5 outta 6 of the current keybladers. Sora and Roxas are taken by Ven, Riku is taken by Terra, Kairi and Mickey are taken by Aqua, we have '''no clue''' who's the other have of Xion, but its probaly '''not''' the Apperantice, but who,who else, it can't be final fantasy,could it just be a dark younger clone of MX or is it a acuall person, and what's the deal with the name "Xehanort" any way, I guess its was one sell or something-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Sora, Riku, Roxas, Mickey, and Kairi are 5 outta 6 of the current keybladers. Sora and Roxas are taken by Ven, Riku is taken by Terra, Kairi and Mickey are taken by Aqua, we have '''no clue''' who's the other have of Xion, but its probaly '''not''' the Apperantice, but who,who else, it can't be final fantasy,could it just be a dark younger clone of MX or is it a acuall person, and what's the deal with the name "Xehanort" any way, I guess its was one sell or something-[[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
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They are '''5''' seen keybladers in Birth by Sleep, '''6''' (counting the nobodies) keybladers in the mainstream comunity as of now, who knows, 368/2 or something might have another keyblader, coded might not, so all we can rely on is Nomura's word and screen shots, and for those who are confused '''keyblader''' is what Hades called Sora in Kingdom Hearts II and I sounds kinda cool- [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | They are '''5''' seen keybladers in Birth by Sleep, '''6''' (counting the nobodies) keybladers in the mainstream comunity as of now, who knows, 368/2 or something might have another keyblader, coded might not, so all we can rely on is Nomura's word and screen shots, and for those who are confused '''keyblader''' is what Hades called Sora in Kingdom Hearts II and I sounds kinda cool- [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Five seen Keybladers in Birth By Sleep, plus Mickey, Sora, Riku and Kairi - that makes nine. And Xion. Ten.}} | ||
And if Xion is not the nobody of Aqua, and if my theory is right than Xion posseses the keyblade due to being expiremnted by the Organization with some of Sora's memories, such as the ability to be a keyblader, than she, like roxas, is a fragment of a keyblader, or this theory could be completely wrong, go figure [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | And if Xion is not the nobody of Aqua, and if my theory is right than Xion posseses the keyblade due to being expiremnted by the Organization with some of Sora's memories, such as the ability to be a keyblader, than she, like roxas, is a fragment of a keyblader, or this theory could be completely wrong, go figure [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Oh snap, here comes the question : does there '''have''' to be so many Keyblade wielders ? Makes no justice to the phrase "chosen one".}} | ||
It could mean the chosen one of '''light''', since Riku is in between, Mickey is darkness, and Kairi is apperantly nothingness [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | It could mean the chosen one of '''light''', since Riku is in between, Mickey is darkness, and Kairi is apperantly nothingness [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
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Sorry, coulda sorn one of them said it, but I know for sure that Axel used it refering to Roxas [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | Sorry, coulda sorn one of them said it, but I know for sure that Axel used it refering to Roxas [[User:Clarkmaster|Clarkmaster]] | ||
{{TNE|blahtext=That "Chosen one" phrase is used by Leon, Yen Sid, Axel and quite a few others.}} | |||
Since a Heartless is a heart that is lost in darkness and a Nobody is a body that lost its heart, I'm guessing an Unbirth is a being that's made or "born" when unnatural creatures like Nobodies and Heartless are made. Or maybe instead of the darkness, it's the Unbirths that makes a heart into a Heartless and a body into a Nobody. Or here's another theory: Now in Kingdom Hearts, there was a lot of Heartless. In Kingdom Hearts 2, there was still a lot of Heartless and a small number of Nobodies. My theory is in Birth By Sleep, there was a lot of Unbirths that were created by Master Xenahort and his apprentice, who Xenahort chose over his former apprentices, the Chasers (He saw that the Chasers were weak and small-minded and unwilling to gain true power). These Unbirths were all destroyed by Ven, Aqua, and Terra. [[User:Augment96|Augment96]] 04:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC) | Since a Heartless is a heart that is lost in darkness and a Nobody is a body that lost its heart, I'm guessing an Unbirth is a being that's made or "born" when unnatural creatures like Nobodies and Heartless are made. Or maybe instead of the darkness, it's the Unbirths that makes a heart into a Heartless and a body into a Nobody. Or here's another theory: Now in Kingdom Hearts, there was a lot of Heartless. In Kingdom Hearts 2, there was still a lot of Heartless and a small number of Nobodies. My theory is in Birth By Sleep, there was a lot of Unbirths that were created by Master Xenahort and his apprentice, who Xenahort chose over his former apprentices, the Chasers (He saw that the Chasers were weak and small-minded and unwilling to gain true power). These Unbirths were all destroyed by Ven, Aqua, and Terra. [[User:Augment96|Augment96]] 04:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC) | ||
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I think that something happened during this keyblade war that destroyed all of the unbirths (if they weren't all destroyed, then where were they in the other KH games?) }} | I think that something happened during this keyblade war that destroyed all of the unbirths (if they weren't all destroyed, then where were they in the other KH games?) }} | ||
{{ | {{TNE|text=Okay. Guys. I'm getting confused. One person is explaining, another is explaining while the third is complicating things up while I am stuck in the middle of this chaos. | ||
I think we'd better take this dispute to a new section, what say you ?}} | I think we'd better take this dispute to a new section, what say you ?}} |
Revision as of 00:05, 10 April 2009
Opinion?
Does anyone else think they should have just stuck with Heartless and Nobodies? I just feel like adding an enemy that precedes the Heartless (originally, the REAL threat) seems kind of silly. It would have been better in continuity of they just stuck with the original enemies instead of trying to give us another "original enemy". 75.42.222.81 18:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Heartless started within the timeline of Kingdom hearts 1. so they had to have something else. Zack fair 007 23:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
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You think that the mad hatter's song " A Very Merry Unbirthday" has anything to do with them? Roxas-rules 19:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
- WHY do people keep claiming that Xion is an unbirth??? We dont even know for certain what unbirths are!!
- Ahem, anyway, I hope they tie them to the sleeping part of this game. And then there could be stuff from Sleeping Beauty (which could already be the wheel master).
Summon:WALL•E 08:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The reason is that there is no other logical explanation that we can see. both her heart and her body are acounted for over the entire duration of kingdom hearts one.Rock2060 22:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Theory
Instead of being negative souls, they are negative LIFE. See this: Heartless: Corrupted Hearts Nobody: Corrupted Bodies Unbirths: (Presumingly) Corrupted "Lifeforce". See the contradictions in names? They are the "opposite of human life", being life without reason, without a body to sustain, no heart to guide it. "Birth By Sleep"-Born In Sleep. If sleep can be called the process of the division into heartless, nobody and unbirth, you got an origin right in the title.
-Good Night Everybody! MEXORAN
I must say I have to agree with this theory whole heartedly (pun intended). Like you said Heartless are a heart in a body of darkness, nobodies are the body and soul leftover when the darkness invades, so maybe unbirths are just a body and a heart?
unbirth = soul
An unbirth is the soul just like the nobody and the heartless are the body and the heart. In the ansem report 7 it says wen ar heartless is created the body and soul are reborn into another world. A good example is Sora his heartless a shadow was born in Hallow Bastion but his nobody Roxas was born in Twilight Town.
And there is good proof that Xeanorts unbirth is leading the unbirths because his heartless and nobody leaded the nobodys (Xemnas) and the heartless (Ansem)
one last thing Xion is not an unbrirt she is a !nobody!
how can she be a nobodywhen riku has her body for the entire game.Rock2060 22:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
except Nobodies are the body AND soul.
But we don't even know MX is Xehanorts unbirth, and a lot of people think Terra is Xehanorts unbirth.
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Idea
I think that when a Nobody meets with it's original being ( Such as when Roxas meets with Sora ) the nobody goes back to the normal soul, meaning that the nobody is non- existint anymore, resulting in the nobody being unborn. ( Namine and Roxas are exceptions ) When this happens, another being is created. But instead of one occurence = one heartless/nobody, it creates one unbirth with the power to multiply. Every time this happens, the original unbirth goes to a certain world. When it reaches this world, it starts multiplying. When the original unbirth is defeated, the other unbirth's are destroyed also.Master of Valor 00:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
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Clarkmaster says- Ralfiki did said that its the Circle of Life
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Just a thought
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not just the soul
the problem is that it cant just be the soul because then there would be an overwhelming number of ubirths in the other kingdom hearts games and there absense would require an arbitrary explaination. heartless\ nobodys are made when you lose your heart something that is not natrule. but you are suposed to lose your soul its called dieing.
now for some reason not every heartless spawns a nobody my theroy is this if a heartless is formed it affects the soul in such a way that it will move. if the soul sticks with the body you get a nobody if the soul gose with the heart instead of geting a heartless you get an unbirth. of course its also likely that if the soul will chose neither in wich case you get one heartless and a dead body. this would explain why heartless are more abundent then the other 2
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Clarkmaster thunkSince Troisnyxetienne is right than that means Ven is NOT soras unbirth, unless the game takes place 14 years before kh 1
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And that would be the end of Ven's story, wouldn't it? That defintley means Ven is an unbirth, and if that's true than the first major unbirth seen is Ven so riku has no major importance to BBS as of yet, so Terra has got to be Xehanort!Clarkmaster been thinkin
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Guys, let's put the pieces together
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We can say that Terra's a jackass just like Xehanort, but seriously, We can put together that Terra is the only one able to be Xehanort, Ven is Sora's Unbirth, we have no clue who is Aqua, the apprentice looks like Dark form Riku, and that apperintly we are very good at puttin stuff together-Clarkmaster
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Well as far as we know, she died, or turned into heartless/nobody/unbirth because of her armor in Xemnas room, I've also seen that Xemnas in armor form vagly resembles Terra in his armor-Clarkmaster
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Well, there's two ways this could happen, one: her soul is possesing the armor, two: Xemnas is crazy-Clarkmaster
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I vote on him being crazy, but what I just thought the two heartless optional bosses, phantom and kurt ziza, they could be the apprintece-Clarkmaster
When Xigbar is talking to Zexion about the room of sleep (Where Aqua's armor is), he is ends by saying that: Maybe, in Calstle Oblivion, that's where the "other" room is. (Or something like that) What could be in the Other room? Xiggie
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Well the awakening could be what sora and roxas had to go through, exactly why I dont remember, but it could be the awakening of the only one that's missing, Ven, so that could further help explain Ven choosing Way to Dawn as the castle was in the nobody castle, a castle of twilight- Clarkmaster
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Ok, but technacly they are nobodies so no one is actually living there, but I get what your saying, so what are the unbirth atributes? Heartless=Darkness. Nobodies=Nothingness/Twilight. Sora and friends=Light.-Clarkmaster
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I thank you nailed it at menace. If you can't controll something powerful, than it causes chaos and if they're is a realm of chaos than the keyblade and its weilder would have to be one of the five new keyblade weilders from Birth By Sleep-Clarkmaster
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Well, if all of the keblade Masters die or something in birth by sleep than there's gotta be a sequel with a keyblade masterClarkmaster
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Of course, but that would mean another major character, the revealing of Ven, Terra, and Aqua to Sora and the revealing of the new Clarkmaster
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Lol, we all totally got off track, but let's look at this. Xigbar seems to know the most about all this Birth by Sleep stuff, followed by Xemnas. So maybe Braig is the reason why Xehanort lost his memories. It could also explain why Xemnas and Xigbar never seem to like eachother. Another theory, is that Xehanort IS Terra, explaining the similar looks, and Braig was supposed to be like a keyblade master, but instead Terra was picked instead, and Braig did the same thing Riku did with Sora in KH1, and then they became friends again... I probably sound crazy, but from my point of view... no I am crazy-- Morghman
What happened in the keyblade War?
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No, Nomura hasn't said anything else. This realy isn't the place to ask something like this, but this topic piques my intrest: How do you know that there even were that many Keybalde weilders at one time? There can only be four Keyblade weilders (and their Nobodies, and possiblly their Heartless or Unbirths) at a time. There could be a number of diffrent explanations. Some of the Keyblades shown in the trailor are Sora's meaning they could represent memories, worlds, or people. It's also possible that those are the Keyblades of previous Keybalde weilders and that the Crossroads is where their Keyblades are laid to rest. Also, how to we even know the "Keyblade War" was fought with people? It's possible it was the Keyblades fighting themselves, resulting in the four Realm's (Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm of In Between, and Realm of Nothingness) indivigual Keyblades. Their's way too many possiblities to go further with this. -xNaminéx
- Maybe they (Ven, Terra, Aqua) didn't die but were passed one as the infulence of the next generation, but Terra apperantly goes evil, Riku, the origanil realm of light keyblader master, goes temporay evil, leaving the realm of light to chose Sora as, unlike Ven, the keyblade master of light, leaving Darkside to Aqua and Mickey, and the left over keyblade, Way to Dawn to Riku as, like Ven (I guess?), chose the road in between-Clarkmaster
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Not necessarily. If the Keyblade can choose it's own master, why can't it fight by itself? And I didn't really mean a physical battle, I meant that the Keyblade War could possiley have been the interal power struggle between Light and Darkness for supremessy, thus creating the Keyblades of each Realm.-xNaminéx
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What about the Lingering Sentiment? If Terra is Xehanort, what is it then? Couldn't it be Terra's keyblade acting on its own? Veroso 02:23, 27 January, 2009
The master has the Keyblade based on the domain. That's why Sora took the Kingdom Key, the Keyblade of Light. It orinally chose Riku, but since Riku chose darkness, the Kingdom Key chose Sora instead, because Sora's heart stayed in the Light. Riku has the Way to the Dawn, the Keybalde of In Between, because after Xehanort's Heartless posessed him, he tries to find his Light, but realized he could have both. -xNaminéx
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Oh. I see what your saying. The weilder chooses their own path. But what i'm saying is that the keyblade they get is based off the path they choose.-xNaminéx
So who is Xehanort? The second most probable suspect seems to be MX's apprentice. Veroso 02:50, 27 January, 2009
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He's apperantly dark, possiby one of the later Org. XIII members, Xehanort, defentley not a final fantasy character, but each weilder has a new generation version, Ven=Sora. Terra=Riku. Aqua=Kairi/Mickey (due to the Darkside). So the question is, Who in Kh1, CoM, and Kh2 is the equevelint of The Apperintance?-Clarkmaster
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Isn't it obvious? Saix and the Guardian all remind you of the Apprentice! 13:44, 28 January, 2009 Veroso
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Saix has no keyblade, but the Guardian could be a side affect from Xehanort's Heartless powers, any one thinking anti-sora?Clarkmaster
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Well, Aqua's out. Terra's muslcel structure seems bigger, Ven seem a canident-Clarkmaster
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Sora, Riku, Roxas, Mickey, and Kairi are 5 outta 6 of the current keybladers. Sora and Roxas are taken by Ven, Riku is taken by Terra, Kairi and Mickey are taken by Aqua, we have no clue who's the other have of Xion, but its probaly not the Apperantice, but who,who else, it can't be final fantasy,could it just be a dark younger clone of MX or is it a acuall person, and what's the deal with the name "Xehanort" any way, I guess its was one sell or something-Clarkmaster
Okay I lost this at xNaminex's comment since when are there only four keyblade masters? In the "another report" (Official commentary by Nomura I linked to it on the Main page's talk section too lazy to do so here) it is specificaly stated that this is not the case. While there is probably a keyblade for each realm those are not the only one's. I have no idea where that idea could have originated from
Since when are there only four keybalde masters when Nomura specificaly said there are more? Oh Yee of little faith http://www.kingdomhearts3.net/another-report/pages-28-29/#ar "as many as there are qualified hearts"
They are 5 seen keybladers in Birth by Sleep, 6 (counting the nobodies) keybladers in the mainstream comunity as of now, who knows, 368/2 or something might have another keyblader, coded might not, so all we can rely on is Nomura's word and screen shots, and for those who are confused keyblader is what Hades called Sora in Kingdom Hearts II and I sounds kinda cool- Clarkmaster
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And if Xion is not the nobody of Aqua, and if my theory is right than Xion posseses the keyblade due to being expiremnted by the Organization with some of Sora's memories, such as the ability to be a keyblader, than she, like roxas, is a fragment of a keyblader, or this theory could be completely wrong, go figure Clarkmaster
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It could mean the chosen one of light, since Riku is in between, Mickey is darkness, and Kairi is apperantly nothingness Clarkmaster
Has the phrase "Chosen one" ever actually been used.(Quote the damn Scene)
Leon used it. After he knocks Sora out cold, I can't remeber the quote, but either he or Yuffie says it Clarkmaster
I looked up both versions of that scene and thatis a LIE!(mad twitching) anyhoo there is mention of the "keyblade's chosen one" but with the theory that "The Voice"(capitals) is the keyblade that might be literal (if there is more than one keyblade... and there is)then they all get to choose.(no backsies)
Sorry, coulda sorn one of them said it, but I know for sure that Axel used it refering to Roxas Clarkmaster
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Since a Heartless is a heart that is lost in darkness and a Nobody is a body that lost its heart, I'm guessing an Unbirth is a being that's made or "born" when unnatural creatures like Nobodies and Heartless are made. Or maybe instead of the darkness, it's the Unbirths that makes a heart into a Heartless and a body into a Nobody. Or here's another theory: Now in Kingdom Hearts, there was a lot of Heartless. In Kingdom Hearts 2, there was still a lot of Heartless and a small number of Nobodies. My theory is in Birth By Sleep, there was a lot of Unbirths that were created by Master Xenahort and his apprentice, who Xenahort chose over his former apprentices, the Chasers (He saw that the Chasers were weak and small-minded and unwilling to gain true power). These Unbirths were all destroyed by Ven, Aqua, and Terra. Augment96 04:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
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Heartless,Nobody,and Unbirth
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Well what you say is wrong i think. people have hearts. something without a heart = heartLESS people have bodies. something withouth a body = NObody people have souls. something without a soul, meaning that it has never been born. =unbirth.
The opposite of life is something wich hasn't been born. because death is part of the circle of life, it isn't the opposite.
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Unbirth - Unborn
It may be referring to beings that never had the chance to be born. If that is right, then it will explain why an Unbirth isn't present in the original games, seeing how Heartless and Nobodies are already born beings. User:Charmed-Jay
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It's called "Unbirth" and refers to the opposite of human life. if not death, then it mean never-born. maybe the spirit that died before it could hatch in a body. User:Charmed-Jay
Heartless are created from the hearts of people who fall into darkness. Nobodies are created from those people who lose their hearts. IMO, Unbirths are created from souls who don't have hearts and/or bodies. Simple, makes sense. Drake Clawfang 20:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
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Origin
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Twilight=Nothingness, in the context of KH.
Heartless are hearts (emotion, darkness), but the heart also has to act as the body, and so since the heart can't work full time on its real job, the creature acts "Heartless".
Nobodies are bodies (form, twilight), but the body also has to emulate emotions and thought (which is why when they emulate emotion, it's always so dramatic and theatrical, and they don't use body language), so it too is working overtime. Thus, the body cannot fully just be "there", which makes them seem insubstantial, like they don't fully exist. (Technically, Nobodies have souls as well, but most important is the body). The strongest Nobodies, best able to emulate emotion, seem to have filled their hearts with the element they represent - which is why Axel has a passionate, fiery personality, warm but destructive; Roxas is pure and high-minded; Larxene is caustic, quick to anger, and tantalizing; Vexen is haughty and arrogant (cold); and Marluxia is vain and focused on death (cherry blossoms being a symbol of death in Japan).
Unbirth's are presumably just souls (mind, light) - trying to emulate form and emotion, but being quite similar to the concept of the "soul waiting to be put in a body" that you get between Reincarnation, or before incarnation, etc. Thus, they represent something that is no longer alive, or has never been. As the mind is an abstract, it is the least substantial of the three - a body is purely physical, and a heart is a thing of the world, but the soul is eternal. Thus, by itself, it is even more "nonexistant" than the others. The Ansem Report's specifically explain that without the heart, a barely existent Nobody (body and soul) is formed, and a Nobody without a body (a soul only) soon fades away completely. Birth by Sleep will probably give a setting which allows the Souls to survive on their own for some reason; as it is a prequel, maybe the war of the keyblades actually had something to do with making sure souls went away once the body and heart ended. Maybe they had a ghost problem?
A Heartless, once destroyed, liberates the heart from darkness. A Nobody, once defeated, seems to have their body actually destroyed (since they are at least, physically there), leaving the soul behind. Unbirths could very well be a setup for what happens to a dying Nobody, and the mythos about them will probably set up a way for the Organization members to come back in some form.
A whole person, a being, is all three of these. They are not represented by any specific direction on light-dark, and may choose at their own will. While not "nothingness/twilight", they are a blank slate, so a whole may fill themselves with light (Sora), darkness (Riku), or nothingness (Xehanort).
It was actually pretty clear this was the mythology they were going to create since Chain of Memories - people (including me) were calling it before KHII came out.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 18:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
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- ...noo...Xemnas makes it absolutely rock-solid clear that nothingness, the nobodies, are "in between light and dark"/"teetering on the edge"/etc. Then, you've got Twilight Town, the epicenter of nearly all Nobodies.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 19:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
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Combination?
Maybe they're the combination of a nobody and the heartless that came from it. That would explain the small population. The reason that they are the opposite of human life is that this time their hearts are pure darkness, no light at all.
Or
Unbirths could be (I am making a wild guess) born when a nobody and a heartless reunite and fuse together. Thus a person is becoming unborn. Dark one 01:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)