Editing Talk:Braig

{{NitrousX|text=He looks just like Xigbar, except with an eye!! anyway we could crop and enlarge this? and are there more pictures of the apprentices?}}
{{GS|time=21:58, October 1, 2009 (UTC)|text=It's fake, as I know who created it.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Ah! You found a picture of Braig!?! Where is it!?! Let me see! Let me see!

Oh, it's a fake? That a shame. I got excited for nothing.}}
{{ST|time=19:07, November 7, 2009 (UTC)|text=Although i have to say, if SE had any creativity, thats how they would make braig: xigbar with no eyepatch or scars}} 
{{NinjaSheik|text=Yeah. I was hoping to see Braig with both of his eyes. Maybe they will tell us how he got his scars.}}


We should have Xigbar's "Goldfish" quote in this pages' "Birth by sleep" section. it's funny and the only thing relevent we have at the moment.

:Could you elaborate on that? Maybe I missed something, but I have no clue what that means. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 03:44, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

"Of all the faces I could see, it had to be you...Why do you always have to stare at me 
like I just drowned your Goldfish?"

:I assume this is from 358/2 Days? It seems too vague to be in the article, and even then it isn't terribly relevant. All it does is reinforce that Braig has met Ven, which we already knew. [[User:LapisScarab|LapisScarab]] 04:43, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

{{Template:ST|time=18:19, November 19, 2009 (UTC)|text=I heard somewhere that Braigs pic is in the next v jump magazine. }}
{{NinjaSheik|happy=Hooray!}}

{{Template:ST|time=17:58, November 20, 2009 (UTC)|text=Yay we finally have a picture of Braig, and double yay for the lack of eyepatch and scars. Now all we need is Ienzo and we have all six Apprentices}}
{{Maggosh|text=FALSE!
Sorry, I always wanted to say that. But hey! We've got Braig, and...stuff.}}
{{Maggosh|text=UPDATE! New full body render from the new scan! And it turns out Braig DOES have yellow eyes!}}
{{NinjaSheik|happy=Yeah! I saw it about 10 minutes ago! I already asked Sir GS to make a clean, good cut out of him. Lord Xiggie haven't been on lately, so I don't think he could do it.}}
{{Maggosh|text=I made a quick crop just a few minutes ago. That should suffice until then.

But I'm so fricken excited! :D Which reminds me, I'll crop and rotate that section with TAV. Do you think we can put that somewhere?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Yes, I think so.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Consider it done.
[[File:Promotional Art 02 KHBBS.png|200px]]
Where to, sir?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Anywhere you see fit.}}
{{Maggosh|text=Added to the Worlds and Characters section of the BbS article.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Okay, but I'm not sure KrytenKoro will approve.}}
{{Maggosh|text=*gulp* Where else, then?}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=Maybe this was a bad idea...Hmm, I don't know.}}
== Boss page? ==

{{Maggosh|text=Should we make a Boss page for Braig, considering he's confirmed?}}

{{HarpieSirenTalk|text=I say we wait till after the game's out, so we actually have information for the page other than "He's confirmed to be a boss"}}

{{Maggosh|text=We do know he uses a Warp Snipe mode.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=22:24, December 7, 2009 (UTC)|text=That still doesn't make much of a page. Everything we know about his battle can be summed up in two sentences, so it would be best to wait until the game actually comes out.}}

{{Template:ST|time=18:04, December 10, 2009 (UTC)|text=Yeah, i noticed the Sniper thing he was doing and could not help but say to myself "Hmmmm, where have I seen this before."}}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 08:26, February 11, 2010 (UTC)|text= Since there's a video of Braig vs. Terra/Aqua on youtube, can't somebody just watch that, make the boss page, and use what they see Braig doing as info for the page? It's not like we have to wait until its in English and we can hear all his badass phrases. "Clever little sneak!" I hope to god he says that again lol}}

==Image==
They've posted up a high-quality render of him on the official site [[User:Kaihedgie|Kaihedgie]] 04:32, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

{{Morghman|I just have to point out, that Braig looks freakin' awesome! I expected him to be old and weird, but he's a freakin' ninja! Bravo Square.}}

==Weapon==
{{EO|time=13:28, December 28, 2009 (UTC)|talktext=Under fighting style, I wanted to create a section for his Arrowguns. I'm just not sure how I'd write it... whenever I start, I view it as not good enough.}}

==Trivia==
{{LapisScarab|time=21:34, January 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=The trivia section says that Braig is the only character series to receive premenant and visible body damage. That is not true, even within the Organization, Saix has his scar. I can't edit it because of the spoiler lock though.}}

The thing is, we see Braig without, and then with, his damage. All as a human. Saix is a human, then later seen as a Nobody, with the X-scar. It's entirely possible that it was one of the slight changes to accompany becoming a Nobody. Without proof, or knowing how it happened canonically, Braig is still the only one on that list. [[Special:Contributions/203.105.95.93|203.105.95.93]] 10:49, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=23:57, January 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=I think you misunderstood me. I am not lobbying for Saix to be added to the list, I am saying that it is vague, unimportant, and incorrect trivia. A scar by definition is the result of a wound that does not fully heal, so Saix, whether it was as Isa or as a Nobody, must have been injured to gain his scar, just like Braig was injured and gained his own.}}

And that's assuming things to be true when you don't have the basis to prove it on. Nobodies are not like Humans. For all we can tell, they don't possess organs, they don't bleed, hell, beyond a lot of disturbing Rule34 pictures, they might not even be anatomically correct. They aren't reanimated humans who lost their Hearts. They are comprised of, as far as can be seen, the power of Nothingness, and an element (in the Organization member's cases). I doubt Axel went out and got facial tattoos, yet he still has those tear-drop markings on his face. In all likeliness, they just ''happened''. Becoming a Nobody has been confirmed to make changes to a Nobody, differentiating them from their Somebody. Braig was shown, as one entity, before and after. That is relevant and unique to him among all the other characters. Ergo, it seems both important AND correct to me.[[Special:Contributions/203.105.95.93|203.105.95.93]] 10:46, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{Xaity|[[User:Xaity|Xaity]] 20:27, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|angry=That's not true, [[Cloud]] have a bionic arm in the first Kingdom Hearts}}
{{Randomnessity|text=It's not bionic. It's just a gauntlet.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=20:35, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|text=@Xaity: That wasn't a bionic arm, it was just clawed armor. @anon: A Nobody is the body left over when a heart becomes a Heartless and leaves. You have no way of proving that they do not have human organs, or that they don't bleed, becaue ''no one'' in the series bleeds. In fact, while it is not definitive, I have more proof than you do that Nobodies are ''not'' made of nothingness, because it has been stated in the games that a Nobody if the physical body of a person who succumbed to the darkness. A scar is very different from a facial marking; bodily wounds don't just pop up out of nowhere because someone becomes a Nobody. Again, the trivia in question is not important to the article, and is incorrect by Saix's example.}}

{{User:Xiggie/TalkTemplate
|image=DiZ_(Talk sprite)_1_KHCOM.png
|color=#000000
|color2=#000000
|textcolor=#DC143C 
|textcolor2=#DAA520
|line=#FFFFFF
|fonttype=Trebuchet MS
|name=Gnut2.0
|sig=It is the fate of a Nobody...And a Heartless...Anyone who gets in the way really...
|time=''An entity shrouded in mystery...And idioms''
|text= I just want to say, as I have had many conversations with a lot of my friends on the topic, that you also forgot to mention the Will factor. A Nobody is made up of a person of two catagroies. Catagorie one is where said person has a Strong Heart and a Strong will, peresumibly to live. Catagroie two is just an extention of one where said person can also willingly become one with Darkness, as in the Apprinteses case. Thats from reading the Jounals and reviewing what all the members say. A just a bit, though I hate to use this sorse, from the Manga.
}}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:48, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|text=I didn't really forget the Will part, it's just that the Body part is what the anon doesn't seem to understand.}}

From all I've seen, Nobodies are formed by when a person with a strong heart and/or will submits to, or accepts the Darkness. They lose their Heart to said Darkness, the body is cast into Nothingness, and even as Yen Sid tells us (and I quote), they are " an empty vessel whose Heart has been stolen away...a spirit that goes on even as its body fades from existence". There are some keywords in this: "empty vessels", "spirit" "as its body fades". All of this leads to the fact that they do ''not'' maintain their original body. I trust Yen Sid over any fan and what they "know".

The Dusks, Creepers, Berserkers, etc... the only differnce they have on their Organization masters, is that the Org. members' strong will allowed them to keep their forms. The "empty vessels" bit kind of tips us off that they aren't just bodies, comprised of the same goo and guts normal humans are. Every Organization member defeated fades away. They don't die, convulse, show pain. They don't have normal bodies with which to die in. To say Axel's tattoos are any different than Saix's scar at this juncture is a leap in any direction. You're imagining Axel's markings "just appeared", but Saix had to earn his X? Until it's confirmed IF and HOW Saix got it, Braig maintains the only cast member to recieve and keep his injuries.[[User:Edenfire|Edenfire]] 23:01, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=23:14, January 10, 2010 (UTC)|text=Saix had to "earn" his scar because ''it is a '''scar'''''. A scar does not just show up. And I repeat, this is not a conversation on what Nobodies are made of or one on whether Saix counts toward the list. The trivia is meaningless to the article. Saix/Isa has received permenant and visible body damage, we just don't know how he got it, so the trivia is incorrect as well.}}

And again, assuming things to have happened with no proof doesn't make it fact. A scar doesn't just show up. But hell, neither do TATTOOS, for crying out loud. Then again, getting my heart ripped out by a living shadow doesn't make my lifeless body jump up and start trying to long for power, either. It's a video game with a very ''lax'' sense of reality-based facts. The trivia is in no way "incorrect". Meaningless, maybe, but the fact that we KNOW how Braig recieved this permanent change to his body makes him unique, and it's an interesting fact. Hell, MOST trivia on this site is meaningless. That's the point of trivia. It's near-useless information, that doesn't fit anywhere else in the article. You might not like it. Doesn't mean it should be removed, and it sure doesn't make it any less true. Until we know ''how'' and/or ''when'' Saix got his X, Braig is unique.[[User:Edenfire|Edenfire]] 06:37, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=06:43, January 11, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ugh, forget it. I have better things to do then argue this. You win, keep the trivia, as if the trivia sections weren't crowded enough.}}

Not sure if I'm doing this talky thing here right ... but anyways. LipisScarab is right. Braig isn't the only one to receive a permanent scar. Blah, blah, blah (I'm noty talking about Saïx).

*SPOILER* Master Eraqus received a few scars from Master Xehanort. Look at his face. *SPOILER*

There, all cleared up. [[User:Birth By Blu]] 06:04, January 12, 2010 (PST)

Then I concede and concur.  Braig AND Eraqus share this quality.  Saix does not.[[User:Edenfire|Edenfire]] 10:59, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not going to touch the trivia, but I feel as though I must clarify once again that I was not advocating for Saix to be added to the list, I didn't think the list itself was necessary. But I digress, we'll leave it there.--'''''[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:navy;">Lapis of</span>]][[User talk:LapisScarab|<span style="color:darkred;">the Night</span>]]''''' 21:55, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

== How? ==

How exactly did Braig get to the Keyblade Graveyard and how did he leave?--'''''[[User:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Random!</span>]][[User talk:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkblue;">to a point!</span>]]''''' 20:36, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

By that point in time Braig seems to have gained some powers of darkness, as his remaining eye has turned yellow (and the scene involves a zoom in onto the eye, so I guess it's important for that reason). If that's the case, he may have used a Corridor of Darkness. - [[User:Samoth|Samoth]] 21:51, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah. I see. That would seem likely.--'''''[[User:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Random!</span>]][[User talk:Randomnessity|<span style="color:darkblue;">to a point!</span>]]''''' 21:58, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Fighting Style ==

Watching a vid of Braig, he's using literally the ''exact same'' moves as Xigbar - he's teleporting, walking upside-down, charging for a larger shot, and has the telescopic sight. The only attack he has Xigbar doesn't is where he circle-strafes, leaving multiple images and firing at you. I thought the powers of Org XIII were Nobody attributes, but here Braig has power over space and is human, so maybe not. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Doreiku Kuroofangu]] 03:16, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

{{Venkix|text= yeah the strafe is pretty cool. He also uses [[Darkness]] a lot more in his bullets. They seem to be a different color than xigbar's bullets.

Here's the video. (lol @ Terra blwoing out Briag's eye)

Terra vs Braig part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIsyJmIACwE

Terra vs Braig part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zH5yDzNHK8

Aqua vs Braig (He uses his limit break seen in KH2 in this one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O28p6phnig}}

== Censorship ==

I hope they don't censor that scene where Braig loses his eye and got's that big scar... and does someone know are they going to use the censored telescophic sight as they did in KH II or the one in jpn versions???...[[User:P456|P456]] 20:55, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

== Clarification  ==

{{Ym|time=23:24, June 1, 2010 (UTC)|text=What goes first, gallery, or trivia? On this page and Master Xehanort's, it's trivia over gallery, but on Terra, Aqua, and Ven's, it's gallery over trivia. Which one is it?}}
{{Xion4ever|time=23:29, June 1, 2010 (UTC)|text=As far as I remember, it was trivia then gallery. Also, the TAV articles aren't the only articles where the gallery is over trivia (see [[Sora]]). However, on the [[Mickey Mouse]] article it is trivia then gallery. <!--On a side note, this might/should be moved to a forum to get more discussion.-->}}
{{KrytenKoro|I personally prefer Gallery before Trivia, since the gallery is actually part of the article, while the trivia is just tidbits to be eliminated as much as possible.}}

== This Whole Apprentice Business... ==

{{NeutraVega|I'm more or less against using the "apprentice" title, associating with Braig, Dilan, or Aeleus, simply cause...well, they '''weren't''' Ansem's apprentices.  Birth by Sleep very thoroughly set their positions in Radiant Garden as nothing more than castle guards.  The game made that clear, and so did the in-game reports.  So, once again, we've got a plotkai on our hands thanks to Nomura's incompetence.  I think this be needin' a fixin, but I want opinions first.}}

{{CA|time=15:29, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text=Why are we blaming Nomura? Why? why exactly can't Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus be apprentices that, due to them being physically strong, quick, etc. be assigned to guard the castle? They can't be scientists, they are not as smart as Even, Ienzo, or Xehanort. But Even, Ienzo, and Xehanort cannot be palace guards, apparently Ansem wanted them as scientists because they were smarter. It makes perfect sense to me that half are guards and half are scientists.}}

Being an apprentice isn't the same as being a scientist. Xehanort, Even and Ienzo were scientists and Braig, Dilan and Aeleus were guardians, but they all were apprentices of Ansem the Wise - [[User:JTD95|JTD95]] 16:13, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

{{CA|time=15:29, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= That's my point exactly. thank you JTD.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Do you guys know what an apprentice is? It's someone training to replace the master in his role. Ansem was not a castle guard. He was a scientist. Vexen, Xehanort, and Zexion were his apprentices, not Dilan, Briag, and Aeleus.}}

{{CA|time=15:29, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= Uh, then why did Ansem the Wise call ALL SIX his apprentices? Maybe because, oh i dunno, they were?}}

{{ST|text=perhaps science and study is not the only thing ansem was teaching. what else it might have bee, heck if i know, but who knows, stranger crap has happened}}
{{KrytenKoro|...did you guys read the starting comment for this topic?

Also, ST, outright speculation is not helpful. BBS does not show them being apprentices, at all. It shows them as being gate guards.}}

{{CA|time=15:29, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= Yes that is true Kryten, but Ansem the Wise Specifically mention them in his secret reports as his "apprentices".}}

{{Xabryn|text=Maybe Ansem was took the apprentices to rule Radiant Garden after his dead or after he retire, 3 for protect and 3 to take care of his the other things that he used to do}}
{{KrytenKoro|@CA: ...and Neutra is saying that Nomura made a plot-hole.}}
{{Disneyvillainman|text=Considering that we don't know all the details regarding what happened in between BBS and where the Secret Ansem Reports start, the three guards very well could have become apprentices in between this period.}}

{{Maggosh|text=That is very much true. We know ''nothing'' about what happened in that year after BbS, so saying they're not apprentices is just as much speculation.}}

{{LyingMemories|time=[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 09:55, August 5, 2010 (UTC)|luxord= This could very well be considered speculative, but how do we know that Dilan, Aeleus, and Braig weren't both scientists AND guards? We know that they were the strongest and the guards, but I have seen no scene where we see them as not being intelligent. It may not have been shown in the game in any scenes where they're helping with the experiments, but it does make sense. People can have two roles. It's called multitasking.}}

==Lasting Facial Damage==
{{Chitalian8|time=15:06, June 24, 2010 (UTC)|text= You know how the trivia says that Braig, Saix, and Eraqus are the only people to recieve lasting facial damage? What about Leon and Seifer, should we include them in that trivia?}}

...within Kingdom Hearts. --[[User:Gr8champ|<font color="green">''If I had a hairbrush,''</font>]] [[User talk:Gr8champ|<font color="purple">'''that would be amazing!'''</font>]] [[User:Gr8champ/Dissidia:Kingdom's_Fantasy|<font color="blue"><small>'''Pregnancy?'''</small></font>]] 16:22, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

could tha picture be any bigger???--Chaosxterra09 23:18, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

{{Disneyvillainman|text=Scar also recieved permanent facial damage and it seems like there was another member of Organization XIII with facial damage as well.}}

{{Maggosh|nathan=Braig and Eraqus are the only Kingdom Hearts characters to have received lasting facial damage ''on screen''. End of story.}}

==Spoiler==
Highlight to view: <spoiler>Okay, I know I'm not the only one here, so was anyone else confused when after Terra's fight with him in Radiant Garden, Master Xehanort told Braig that Terra didn't actually steal Aurora's heart back in ED? Cause the player saw it happen, Ven had to free it, and Maleficent was bragging to Aqua all about it. Someone please explain.</spoiler> ~person who doesn't have an account here but feels like editing anyway :p

EDIT: Sorry, spoiler tags aren't working for me. Anyone who know how to fix'em please do so.

{{ST|text=while they really didn't comfirm either way, but based on the coversation between braig and mx after braigs battle is that it while it looked like terra stole the heart, MX actually did it from the shadows, making it look like terra did it to make him feel guilty}}
:Actually, it was Maleficent who "possessed" Terra back at the Enchanted Dominion, so I think she was actually the one who stole Aurora's heart, but she just did it via Terra. --[[Special:Contributions/84.249.211.221|84.249.211.221]] 20:51, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

== Arrowgun Spikes ==

Those on the inside of his arrowguns appear in every picture I've seen of them on this site. But in the journal, the arrowguns are simply hollow in the center, no spikes. could someone figure out what's going on with them? 
[[Special:Contributions/66.215.20.249|66.215.20.249]] 21:42, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Those would be his bullets. His combat renders probably only have them. [[User:Hyperwire 2.0|Hyperwre_2.0]] 02:53, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ahhh, you're right I bet those are the bullets. Cool. [[Special:Contributions/66.215.20.249|66.215.20.249]] 23:28, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

== Xehanort's Experiments ==

{{Veroso|text= I was thinking, is it possible that Braig actually started something in Xehanort that caused him to begin the experiments? I mean, if Master X had never come to Braig for help with Terra, and Braig would have never been in the picture, later, when Xehanort had lost his memory, do you think that Xehanort would have even begun his experiments because Braig wasn't there to kind of help him along, or do think that Master X's curiosity in darkness would somehow come out without Xehanort even realizing it?}}

== Ultimania Artwork ==

Would someone with the right to edit this page (it's protected) please add [http://www.khwiki.net/File:Braig_concept_art.png this] to the gallery and/or move the gallery section to its own page? Thank you. --[[User:Bettafishrule2579|Bettafishrule2579]] 20:57, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
:That one's redundant to his render, so it should be put on [[Gallery:Braig]].{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:52, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
:I made the page. --[[User:Bettafishrule2579|Bettafishrule2579]] 15:33, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
::Coolio.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 15:36, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
::Yup, although the Gallery tag on this one isn't on it. Still cool though. --[[User:Bettafishrule2579|Bettafishrule2579]] 22:22, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

== Lock ==

We're not exactly going to keep this page locked until ''Dream Drop Distance'' is released, are we? I mean, come on, the hype surrounding the TGS info has most likely passed, and we can very easily put a section about "Other Appearances" and put that he appears at the end of the DDD TGS trailer, where he is stabbed in the chest with Master Xehanort's Keyblade..........can't we? [[User:EnglishJoker|EnglishJoker]] 19:22, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
:It wasn't exactly excited anons who ran in here and violated our reliable sources policy. With how often this was done, and by whom, I think we need to have some kind of discussion where we all remind ourselves what's reasonable and what isn't, rather than me trying to get people to follow policy before being forced to lock pages.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 07:04, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

== Him not Xigbar ==
— Xigbar and Saix appeared as members of Organisation XIII. Did they return as humans like Lea and the others?

Nomura: The conditions of becoming a human have been met, so you’d think they had returned, wouldn’t you? For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans and before Lea and the others woke up. You could say the same for the members of Organisation XIII that didn’t appear in this title, however… I’d rather everyone use their imaginations.

Braig is in DDD not Xigbar, he just uses the name.
:Again, Nobody with a heart. It is an entirely different concept from an entelechy. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 09:40, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
::Also, the Ultimania explicitly says it's Xigbar. I believe the Ultimania, rather than your interpretation of a fan-translation of a deliberately vague interview answer.
::Also also, seeing as this new "Nobodies grow hearts" thing directly contradicts past statements, can everybody stop assuming that whatever Nomura hints at in interviews, where he's ''trying'' to hype the game, is 100% accurate? He's stringing people along, it's what he does.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177|192.249.47.177]] 13:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
@@ Line 228: / Line 228: @@
 ::Also, the Ultimania explicitly says it's Xigbar. I believe the Ultimania, rather than your interpretation of a fan-translation of a deliberately vague interview answer.
 ::Also also, seeing as this new "Nobodies grow hearts" thing directly contradicts past statements, can everybody stop assuming that whatever Nomura hints at in interviews, where he's ''trying'' to hype the game, is 100% accurate? He's stringing people along, it's what he does.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177|192.249.47.177]] 13:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
-== Luxu's involvement ==
-So now that Braig was actually/partly Luxu this whole time, what parts of this article are actually "Braig" stuff; using the guns, vs what parts are actually "Luxu" stuff; interest in the Keyblade. {{User:UnknownChaser/Sig}} 18:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)