Editing Forum:Real Organization XIII Speculation

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== List ==

;Confirmed
#Master Xehanort
#Young Xehanort
#Ansem
#Xemnas
#Xigbar
#Saix
#Aqua (Famitsu article: "Clad in darkness, Aqua pierces The King and Riku with golden eyes, evidence of influence by Master Xehanort. She calls out The King's name with a coldhearted voice, and no trace of her former self can be felt.")
#Marluxia (via [http://www.jp.square-enix.com/kingdom/kh3/index.html official Japanese website])

;Implied by KH3 trailers but not citable yet (remember this guys! Trailers are not sources for anything but themselves!)
#Vanitas
#Larxene
#Luxord
#Vexen (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
#Demyx (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
#Riku Replica or Ansem-Riku or Data-Riku (TGS 2018 trailer and chess piece #7 -- combined heartless/nobody symbol) (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, but has yellow eyes)
#Terra-Xehanort (both in trailer and Ends of the Earth chesspiece (also on Eraqus's board))
#Ansem the Wise (shows up with norted Demyx and wears the real Organization XIII insignia zipper on his 0.2 model, not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort)
#Roxas or Data-Roxas (not specifically stated to be working with Xehanort, could fill Sora's spot)

;Implied by KH3D
#Robed Figure
#Sora (if Roxas doesn't count)

;Possible
#No Heart
{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}}

Larxene and Aqua confirmed in Frozen Trailer.
{{unsigned|23.249.35.40}}

:See Kryten's comment on trailers above. Need actual confirmation- an interview, reputable article, etc. {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 17:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::Agreed, especially with Aqua where more details are needed. For now it is speculation what her alliange is. -[[User:Adv193|Adv193]] ([[User talk:Adv193|talk]]) 17:14, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
:::I mean...in KH3D Xehanort said "and one of those on your list". As of now, I'm voting for Riku Replica, Luxord, and Terra-Xehanort as the last three. I lost my first bet tho with that Aqua dodge.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:36, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
::Luxord appeared with yellow eyes in the most recent trailer, so that's a thing that's happening, it looks like. I think it's only a matter of time until we see Demyx- he's the only original Org XIII member unaccounted for. {{unsigned|184.53.16.79}}
:::Just two left.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:44, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
It looks like Aqua is a Seeker, potentially, according to Famitsu.:

https://twitter.com/HMKilla/status/1009892534720651266

That quote was from the this page, on the small yellow box.:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPT0MjW0AUGrxb.jpg {{unsigned|65.96.79.246}}
:Nomura strikes again. Though I wonder for Aqua's situation if it is truly "confirmed Seeker" or "was in the Realm of Darkness a little too long and this is a quick/dramatic 'bad person' bluff?" And it's only June... {{User:Xion4ever/Sig}} 00:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yellow eyes canonically represent possession by Xehanort in some form. It's definitely not a "the Realm of Darkness made her evil" kinda thing. [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 06:50, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

:::For the list posted here. Robed Figure and Ansem are the same guy, Riku Replica from the last trailer seems to not be part of the Organization, and I doubt MX was refering to Aqua, since in the trailer look like Aqua was "Xehanortized" really recently, she don't even have the black robes, so I think she is the 13th member. This will explain why Ansem and Xemnas are trying to help Sora to rehave Roxas. Without Aqua, now is missing a Guardian of Light.--[[Special:Contributions/186.237.35.234|186.237.35.234]] 10:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

:Marluxia is confirmed to be a member of this new O13. The official Japanese website uses a pic of Marluxia for the [http://www.jp.square-enix.com/kingdom/kh3/index.html "Real Organization XIII" box]. [[User:Lady Junky|Lady Junky]] ([[User talk:Lady Junky|talk]]) 20:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

:Re Xion, we don't see enough of the character to make any statements about who it might be. It could be Xion, or Aqua, or Axel, or anyone. Anyone with hair even remotely like that could be the character. Unlike the others, we don't have enough to go on. [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 23:56, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
::We see enough to know it's not Aqua or Axel, as their hair isn't that length. You can even compare it to Aqua's hair later in the video. It also wouldn't make sense, with Aqua already being fully revealed at the end of the trailer. Plus, there's the chesspiece that has what looks like the Kingdom Key as its icon, and there needs to be one of Sora's branches being a Xehanort to make KH3D make any sense.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:09, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Xion's hair is much too short to be that character though, and what Kingdom Key chess piece is there? I haven't seen that. There's also the fact that the figure's hair is a 1:1 match to 0.2 KH1 Riku's hair so it's pretty safe to say it's not Xion now. https://twitter.com/KH_Quote/status/1040221134963134465 [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 20:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)


Excuse me, but what is Demyx on the implied by trailers section? Where did you see a 'sitar' chess piece, and what did it look like? [[Special:Contributions/65.96.79.246|65.96.79.246]] 14:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
:https://imgur.com/4kQcE03 Number 7.
::In all, I see:
#Goat emblem from [[No Name]] (Master Xehanort)
#Sun-in-splendor-with-crescent-moon (Saix)
#Spiky thing, possibly the [[Absolute]] (Xemnas?)
#Dice (Luxord)
#Ansem's guardian's head (Ansem)
#[[Void Gear]] token (Vanitas)
#[[Arpeggio]] (Demyx)
#poss. a flower, or a simplified form of Xemnas's sigil (Marluxia? Xemnas?)
#poss. [[Stormfall]] token (Aqua?)
#[[Sharpshooter]]s from above (Xigbar) or [[Foudre]] (Larxene)
#[[No Name (BbS)]] token (Young Xehanort)
#Foudre (Larxene) or Sharpshooter magazines (Xigbar)
#[[Kingdom Key]] hilt (Xion)
::For guardians:
#[[Oblivion]] token (Sora)
#[[Way to the Dawn]] token (Riku)
#[[Ends of the Earth]] token (Terra)
#[[Kingdom Key D]] token (Mickey)
#[[Destiny's Embrace]] token (Kairi)
#[[Frolic Flame]] token (Lea)
#[[Wayward Wind]] token (Ventus)
::{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 20:24, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
:If you ask me, that number 7 Seeker piece does not look like Demyx's sitar. It looks more like a thorny vine to me. But that's just me. Personally I always thought that Demyx would be the most ''unlikely'' candidate for the new Organization. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 21:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
::I thought he was tied with Marluxia, Larxene, and Xion, but here we are.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:46, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Someone may have 'solved' the potential identity of the new Seeker of Darkness.:

https://twitter.com/KH_Quote/status/1040221134963134465   [[Special:Contributions/65.96.79.246|65.96.79.246]] 19:28, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
:Ah, yeah. Looking at #7 some more, it doesn't look as much like the Nocturne as I thought. It ''does'' look like it might be the Heartless emblem with Nobody spikes on the top -- fitting Riku Replica's nature as a Replica (Nobody variant) with the Heartless emblem on his chest.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:13, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
::Well what the fuck. Now Xehanort has the Terra piece too? Plus we get a better look at (13) that looked like a Kingdom Key previously. I can't place it to anything - the closest I can see is maybe the teeth of the Two Become One? I ''was'' hoping that a form of Sora could take his seat, but seeing as we now have multiple pieces of the same characters taking the same seats (both Terra-Xehanort and Ansem and Xemnas) and about 19 implied members, anything's possible.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 12:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kryten Some people, like Skywardwing, were speculating that Demyx and Vexen might be undercover, inflirtraiting the Seekers of Darkness, with supposedly 'colored eye-contacts' 'made' by Vexen, but this of course is speculation as we all know, but Xehanort could be looking for back-ups, but I'm not sure why they have yellow eyes, since the roster of the new organization seemed to be close to thirteen, and those two just seem to push it beyond that. [[Special:Contributions/65.96.79.246|65.96.79.246]] 23:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
:I'm starting to wonder if Terra and Aqua, though possessed by Xehanort, may not OFFICIALLY be part of the 13 Seekers. They both have not been shown wearing the Organization Coat after all. Granted that could change, but still. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 07:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
::I'll admit after yesterday's video I am even more questioning on who the whole 13 are. I believe that unless if there is confirmation or until the release date, no other names should be listed as an invisible note to avoid any potential speculation. -[[User:Adv193|Adv193]] ([[User talk:Adv193|talk]]) 14:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Dark Riku from KH1 confirmed as a Xehanort at the TGS 2018 Stream

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371704463146221568/492909152511983627/b6fd0660a3daad2dcf471e1e28d9caa8.png {{unsigned|Konu}}

^ What does the text on the images of the Xehanort in that screenshot translate into? I'm just wondering. [[Special:Contributions/65.96.79.246|65.96.79.246]] 14:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

:VIP thoughts - Kingdom Hearts series director Tetsuya Nomura: "The Dark Seeker Saga finally concludes." ''[[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]]'' '''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]''' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 18:01, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Since no one mentioned about this here, I'll just provide the insight. In the TGS 2018 trailers, if you pause and look closely at the block-thingies in San Fransokyo (in both cutscenes and gameplay), you'll see that they look exactly like [[Bug Blox]] and they are bugs in the Datascape which is the simulated Jiminy's Journal. Assuming that each world has its corresponding member from the real Organization XIII (Olympus→Xigbar; Kingdom of Coronoa→Marluxia; Toy Box→Young Xehanort; Monstropolis→Vanitas; Arendelle→Larxene; The Caribbean→Luxord), the "Riku" in black coat from San Fransokyo is implied to be Data-Riku as he's the vessel of the Journal's memories in the Datascape. Of course, this is not really a confirmation since this is concluded based on an assumption. [[User:LightKeyDarkBlade|LightKeyDarkBlade]] ([[User talk:LightKeyDarkBlade|talk]]) 13:43, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
::I'm ''slightly'' leery of that image being used as actual confirmation, because it has two versions of the same character, just with or without memories, and the list of indicated norts is already at around 21. Plus, that looks like they're using the scans from ''this wiki'' (specifically apprentice xehanort and dark riku). But then again...we ''are'' already straining at 21, so fuck it, anything goes.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
::: The reason it probably looks similar to the scans is because they're the source renders those scans used. I didn't exactly get a hi-res screenshot either.[[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 21:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
:::That's what I'm thinking as well about the double Terra-Xehanort. Looks to me that it's more like "this is the conclusion of the Dark Seeker Saga" so it would make sense to put pure Xehanorts there to represent it. Not eliminating the possibility that it's a confirmation though and I've already provided another insight on the "Riku". As for the renders, we actually have almost of them in this wiki except for Ansem, where we only have a [[:File:Ansem (First Form) KH3D.png|low-res of it together with his guardian]]. [[User:LightKeyDarkBlade|LightKeyDarkBlade]] ([[User talk:LightKeyDarkBlade|talk]]) 13:53, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Xigbar is already confirmed, but I've figured out which Chess piece is his.

One chess piece[1] looks like Braig's crossbow[2]

This mysterious black goat head that doesn't represent Master Xehanort[3] also looks like Maleficent's official character emblem[4]
 
1. https://gyazo.com/23eb8ee15e83c4282bd45ff63178eb8b.png
2. https://i.gyazo.com/30aeb082c06ee07b5a80a82e7cb46fd4.png
3. https://i.gyazo.com/d9770f7f4f3aa7fe8d0672f731e79852.png
4. https://www.khwiki.com/images/e/e2/Symbol_Character_-_Maleficent.png

[[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 21:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I mean more the off-color aspects, make it look like they're from scans, not renders.

Okay, so:

#Goat emblem from [[No Name]] (Master Xehanort)
#Sun-in-splendor-with-crescent-moon (Isa/Saix)
#Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
#Dice (Luxord)
#Ansem's guardian's head (Ansem)
#[[Void Gear]] token (Vanitas)
#Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
#hexagram?
#Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
#Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
#[[No Name (BbS)]] token (Young Xehanort)
#Nobody-thorn-style thing (Xemnas, Vexen, Demyx, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Riku-Replica)
#Crossbow (Braig/Xigbar)
#[[Ends of the Earth]] token (Terra-Xehanort)
#There's also a piece seen in the back row during the 2015 trailer that looks like two upward-pointing spikes, with the one closer to the camera noticeably larger

*Aqua? I feel like she has to be 8 or 9.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

::If we're talking about the pieces from this image: https://imgur.com/4kQcE03

:#Xehanort's No Name
:#The Moon could possibly represent Aqua, as she's weilding the hybrid Star Seeker/KKD which features a very similar symbol on it.
:#Looks like Maleficent's Emblem more than a Nobody symbol.
:#Luxord's Dice
:#Ansem's Guardian
:#Vanitas's Void Gear
:#This one could be the top half of Demyx's Sitar.
:#This one is sort of flower shaped. Maybe Marluxia?
:#This one looks like the bottom piece of [https://i.gyazo.com/103ff9797539659c3f3c7f129857b40a.png Saix's Claymore] and even has the same number of spikes. 
:#Xemnas's ethereal blades. It doesn't look exactly like them, but its placement in the TGS 2018 trailer makes it obvious.
:#Young Xehanort's No Name
:#Probably Larxene's Foudre. She holds four at a time
:#Braig's Crossbow
:#Terra's EotE
:#Could you post an image of this piece? The description sounds like piece 10.
[[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 21:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

:[https://imgur.com/a/61JYXyl] It's the fourth from the left in the top image. The one you're identifying as Maleficent is ninth from the left in that image, and very clearly has the Nobody aesthetic. It's also frustrating that the pieces move around every time the camera's not on them, so it's very difficult to confirm that different looking images are the same piece from different angles. The Keyblade you're talking about for Aqua is Mickey's Keyblade, he's holding it in the box art.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:42, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
::The thing I don't life about 3,7,8,9,10,12 is how, if your matches are correct, they're ''excessively'' more abstract than the other pieces, which are pretty detailed and identifiable -- and those characters (including Braig) are ones that were revealed as vessels quite early on. Luxord's piece doesn't make sense as being more obvious than Xigbar's. Honestly, I just dislike the whole thing.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 17:51, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
:::That piece you point out is actually the Xemnas piece. The one in the front of the chessboard back then is identical to it, but it's most likely that they've changed the designs over time. It is Mickey's keyblade, but Aqua wields it in her fight against Sora, which implies she takes it from Mickey in that scene at the start of the game. Also I wouldn't really call them excessively more abstract (for 7/9/10/12) than the other pieces. It's not much different than representing Keyblade wielders by their Keychains. They're just pieces of the weapons. 3 and 8 I'm really not sure about just because there's no real match to them, so I can agree here. And I disagree that Luxord's piece is more obvious than Xigbar's. Xigbar's piece is identical to his crossbow, while the piece we say is Luxord's is just two blocks people assume is dice. For all we know, it could actually be bug blocks and represent the Riku in Big Hero 6.[[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 23:14, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
::::No, the piece I'm pointing out appears in the same scenes as 2(!) of the piece you're calling the Xemnas piece, and is clearly different from it.
::::Another thing to note: "However--through weakness of body...weakness of will...or weakness of trust--most of the original members we had chosen for the Organization were inadequate. Thus, naturally, they never had a chance to attain their goal. Yet, even this was to be expected."
::::With Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene almost explicitly confirmed, none of Demyx, Vexen, or Roxas can be a member and have that still be true.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

:::::Could you grab an image of the piece? Becausse I have no idea what piece you're talking about then. The way you describe it sounds exactly like Xemnas's piece (which had two on the board in the original trailer).

:::::This could easily have been referring to why the original Organization failed and not saying that no original org members would be rejoining. Xemnas specifically refers to the goal of the original Organization (making Kingdom Hearts) as having been unattained, because the original members were inadequate for that goal.

:::::Not sure how this is related to what I said? I don't personally think Vexen or Demyx will be part of the final lineup of 13 Darknesses. I do think Xehanort is norting more than his allotment of 13 so he has spares in case any of his chosen 13 fall before the time comes. Also Roxas was seen as a highly valued potential vessel, so he could easily join the final lineup.

:::::In the end this is all speculation, and we can't truly know who fits what piece until the game comes out or they're explicitly confirmed as representing it. [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 21:43, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
::::::https://imgur.com/a/8lh4qwX
:::::::Looking closely at that, it looks like Braig's crossbow, but upsidedown to me. [[User:Konu|Konu]] ([[User talk:Konu|talk]]) 04:33, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
:If it is, then it's distinct from the piece elsewhere identified as Braig's crossbow. You can see both of them in the first image.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:16, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

If I can partecipate, I want to expose what I think about the chess.

*1-Goat head = Master Xehanort
*2-2 swords crossed to form an X = Xemnas
*3-Xehanort's Guardian's head = Ansem
*4-A moon in a spiked ring = Saix
*5-A Crossbow? = Xigbar
*6-Hourglass/YX's Keyblade Keychain = Young Xehanort
*7-Glazing Eye/MX's Keyblade Keychain? = Xehanort
*8-2 Bug Blocks = Data Riku
*9-Void Gear+ Keychain = Vanitas
*10-4 knives = Larxene
*11-Cards? = Luxord
*12-Ends of the Earth = Terra-Xehanort
*13-Flower = Marluxia
*14-Sitar? = Demyx
*15-Shield? = Vexen

probably will be others, since Aqua is missing--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.179|93.150.192.179]] 17:04, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
@@ Line 197: / Line 197: @@
 *10-4 knives = Larxene
 *11-Cards? = Luxord
-*12-Ends of the Earth keychain = Terra-Xehanort
+*12-Ends of the Earth = Terra-Xehanort
 *13-Flower = Marluxia
 *14-Sitar? = Demyx
@@ Line 203: / Line 203: @@
 probably will be others, since Aqua is missing--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.179|93.150.192.179]] 17:04, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
-:"Also I wouldn't really call them excessively more abstract (for 7/9/10/12) than the other pieces. It's not much different than representing Keyblade wielders by their Keychains. They're just pieces of the weapons." -- except, they're not, though. None of the proposed solutions for them actually directly *match* the weapons in the same way that the hourglass matches the No Name token, or the gears match the Void Gear token -- which are almost ''exact''. And the tokens aren't just "pieces" of the Keyblades -- by series lore, they are the items which symbolize and ''create'' the Keyblades by attaching them to a base Keyblade. Even the piece identified as the bow of Braig's crossbow isn't as exact and symbolic as the tokens are. And all the others have, if identified correctly, significant simplifications or changes to the design. They're more generalized shapes than symbols, which doesn't make sense compared to the hourglass, dice, and broken gear.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:36, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
-::Honestly, I don't think the dices are in fact dices, since I found a chess piece that look like cards, and cards make more sense for Luxord then dices, the 2 cubes can be easly 2 bug blox, so they are related to Data Riku. Here what I suppose is the cards piece.
-https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/khwita/images/8/8f/Scacco_Luxord.png/revision/latest?cb=20180916225528&path-prefix=it
---[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.179|93.150.192.179]] 14:03, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
-:::I showed better pictures of that above, and it is not a flat rectangle. [https://imgur.com/a/8lh4qwX See here]. It has the shape of two triangles, with one taller than the other, sitting on top of another triangle.
-:::Luxord uses dice, as do his Gambler Nobodies. The way the cubes are organized resembles how dice are depicted when thrown, rather than the Bug Blox which (aside from the Core Blox) are normally positioned parallel to the ground.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:31, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
-::::I don't think Luxord uses dice. Gamblers use them, and Sora can turn into one when fighting Luxord, but I believe he only uses Cards himself. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:47, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
-:::::Yhea, in this images seems more trinangles... if that the case, hardly can be related to Luxord... or maybe is a perspective illusion that make them look like trinagles. Not sure. But still, even if dices can be related to Luxord, is quite stringe. How SilentHero say, Luxord NEVER used dices, and would make more sense use cards to represent him. In the last 2 trailers we can see Bug blow used as projectiles, or used to create creater things (like a fist), so, IF the 2 cubes are 2 bug blox instead of 2 dices, the positioning can make sense.--[[Special:Contributions/93.150.192.189|93.150.192.189]] 17:12, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
-::I considered transforming Sora into dice to be "using" dice.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:16, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
-:::Well. Things have definitely become clearer.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
-:So.
-*Ansem the Wise (I hereby retract all my complaints about Xehanort claiming to be Ansem in KH3D being a plot hole)
-**Therefore > Demyx and Vexen confirmed, Zexion implied, possibly Xaldin and Lexaeus too.
-*Xion (I GOT THIS ONE RIGHT, unless Nomura makes it be an illusion of some sort)
-*Riku-Replika/Data-Riku
-*"we let you back among our number" -- demyx?
-{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 13:15, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
-:Well, closer screenshots of the graveyard scene clearly show demyx and vexen, so yeah.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 16:37, 19 December 2018 (UTC)