Editing Forum:Dragon's Neck Colosseum, KH style

{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}

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{{KKD|time=21:46, July 4, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2= Hey everyone. Redeemer and Destroyer came up with this idea, but I'm suggesting it on his behalf. As many users know, the Final Fantasy Wiki has the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, essentially a popularity contest between characters, as voted by users. I believe that we are long overdue for such a competition on our wiki. I, Redeemer&Destroyer, and ZACH have prepared a prototype based on the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, called the "Mirage Arena (to keep in with the BBS theme.), found [[User:Redeemer & Destroyer/Laboratory|here.]] Another tentative logo for the Mirage Arena is <!--[[File:MirageArenaKKD.png|here]]-->. However, as to not make ourselves a complete copy of the FFWiki, we also have come up with the idea of a tournament. After four months of "Battles", we compile the winners (Which would be 16, one for every week) into a 15-day tournament called the "Joint Struggle", akin to GameFaq's character battle. Every day, a new pairing of contenders will be voted upon, the winner continuing to the next round. This would happen in the first 15 days of the month. The next 15 days would be dedicated to selecting characters and matchups for the next four months. The contenders could be anything from characters (Disney, original) to Worlds, to Keyblades. Please leave your thoughts in the section below. 

EDIT 16:36, July 5, 2010 (UTC):A tentative list has been drafted for the first four months of "battles". There are four categories, Characters (Disney, Final Fantasy, KH originals), Worlds, Weapons (Keyblades, Shields, etc.), and Enemies (Heartless, Nobodies, Unversed). The list is as follows:

#Sora vs. Riku
#Simple and Clean vs. Sanctuary
#Kingdom Key vs. Kingdom Key D
#Neoshadow vs. Dusk
#Cid vs. Pence
#Space Paranoids vs. Port Royal
#Buster Sword vs. Chakrams (Eternal Flames)
#Dustflier vs. Leechgrave
#Axel vs. Saix
#Hollow Bastion vs. Radiant Garden
#Knight’s Shield vs. Axe Sword (Skysplitter)
#Guard armor vs. Trinity Armor
#Donald vs. Zexion
#End of the World vs. The World that Never Was
#Omega Weapon vs. Ultima Weapon
#Samurai vs. Morning Star

Now, before anybody looks at the 12th battle and says "The trinity armor is a BBS enemy! It's a spoiler!", please note that that is the twelfth battle. If we were to start next week, that battle would take place the week of September 26, 2010, a good few weeks ''after'' the release of Birth By Sleep, so please don't complain about that.

Please leave any questions or concerns below.

EDIT 03:07, July 7, 2010 (UTC): It has also been decided that, if a contender was in the previous round of the Mirage Arena, He/She/It cannot be used in the next round (Kind of like Featured Media votes.). However, he/she/it can be in the round after. 

For example, Sora and Riku are in the first battle of this round. Regardless of who wins and loses, both cannot be used in the next round, but can be used in the round after that. Also, we should probably try to stay away from repeats of battles, so Sora vs. Riku won't be used again for a long time (at least) after this, if at all.

EDIT 16:21, July 7, 2010 (UTC):Forms of characters cannot battle other characters (No Mummy Donald vs. Larxene, but Mummy Donald vs. Turtle goofy is okay), anonymous votes will probably be removed, for the sake of double-voting, and there are now more severe consequences for not following the rules (Removal of vote w/ message on talk page[a few times], suspension from voting w/ message on talk page [a month maybe? that's 4 battles], and then a ban from voting. If the user persists, then maybe they will land a warning or something, but only for breaking the rules a '''''lot'''''.) Any other ideas? }}

== Discussion ==
{{Auror Andrachome|text=I'm not sure if I'm worried about this idea, but, sure!}}
{{khruler|text=that's cool}}
{{ZACH|mandrake=if everything goes good we can have up in a few days.}}
{{BlackSoulBlade|text=I like this idea.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=22:21, July 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=I approve of this message.}}
{{OKH|time=23:07, July 4, 2010 (UTC)|AmuTalk= Well, I like the idea!}}
{{R&D|time=01:20, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=If it's approved in time it will be on next week. And the first fight will be Sora vs. Riku.}}
{{SER|time=01:20, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|Happy=I approve this magnificent idea! ^^}}
{{NitrousX|text=What a beastly and epic idea!}}
{{TNE|time=03:55, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|happytext=I agree, provided that the users participating are regulars. While I'm aware the wiki isn't a social network, it's also a great way for us to let our hair down...... without the snares of teh Great Graffiti Wall.

And if the logo wouldn't be too crowded, I'd be glad ! :D

Side note 04:01, July 5, 2010 (UTC) : If I were to do the MA logo in the style of KH's forums... would it be okay ?}}
{{KKD|time=04:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Sounds good, Trois. can you just try to keep the world image and logo in there? and do a lot of BBS characters. Gotta fit into the new theme... :D}}
{{TNE|time=04:23, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=The current set of images has seven BBS characters. Now I need to fit the Mirage Arena somewhere.......}}
{{KKD|time=04:26, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Coming from you, it should look great. EDIT: Let me know when it's done.}}
{{TNE|time=04:41, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=Will do. Worse comes to worst ; I'll incorporate the world, but not the text of the logo.

EDIT 05:06, July 5, 2010 (UTC) : ''Fini''. Note that the original image is some 1200 or 1300+ pixels in length. Nothing really, just a badly-made transparency of Mirage Arena over seven BBS characters. Pinpoint them :

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/TroisNyxEtienne/KHWiki%20Stuff/MirageArenaPrototypeSmaller.png}}
{{KKD|time=05:08, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Wow. You've outdone yourself. Looks great.}}
{{TNE|time=05:10, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|remerciement=Thanks ^_^

The same banners could be applied for competitions and/or Featured Media, but that's if everyone says yes.}}
{{KKD|time=05:15, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Any reason Donald's there? it kinda just sprung out at me. Maybe replace him with Eraqus?}}
{{SC|text=No, no, it's pefect. Donald shows the wiki isn't just about BbS.}}
{{KKD|time=05:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Meh, the Wiki is BBS-themed right now. Best to stick with the theme.}}
{{TNE|time=05:21, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=I put Donald in there because Donald has pretty much a share in Ven's story, and even if he doesn't appear as regularly as in the other games, he's still a BBS character. Also, there is no CGI for Eraqus...}}
{{KKD|time=05:22, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=That's fine then. I wasn't aware of Donald's importance in BBS. We'll keep it as is, which is amazing.}}
{{TNE|time=05:25, July 5, 2010 (UTC)|remerciement=I thank you... ^_^}}
This has been up all day.... How long do we have to wait for an admin to see this? {{KKDSig|1}}
{{Organization 13|happy=I really like the idea and the logo.}}
{{LA|Vtext=This is... an interesting idea. I've seen something similar to this going on on the Fanon Wiki. I like this idea, and may want to be a part of it ^^ However, the one on Fanon Wiki ran out of steam fast, so if we can maintain it, I'm all for the idea. Count me in!}}
{{BebopKate|time=01:00, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=Well, for one thing, you probably shouldn't propose ideas on major holiday weekends when said admins are likely to be out-of-town and/or busy. ^_-

I personally like the idea, especially the tournament brackets.  I think it's quite fun, so long as it stays well-run and doesn't get out of hand; that shouldn't be a problem, though, considering the model you guys are working from.  I do think it should be limited wiki regulars (perhaps 100 '''quality''' mainspace edits at least?), so we're not spammed by outside sources trying to get their hunky bishie of the month to win.  The only other suggestion I'd have is watch the spoilers until ''BBS'' comes out, but the only one on your current list I can see that being an issue for is Radiant Garden, so that might not really be a big deal.

Any way, those are my two munny.  The other admins should be around soon to give their imput, I'd imagine.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=02:46, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=I don't think the edit count is a good idea, especially [[User:SilverCrono|for those of us without much to edit]]. I guess that's an incentive to edit, although I don't own a KH game and can only do Wiki Gnome work ._.}}
{{LA|Vtext=I agree, Kate ^^ But I don't think you have to have 100 quality edits to be a "wiki regular"... we know who the regulars around here are.}}
Well, that could partially be solved by removing the anonymous votes, which i find tedious. {{KKDSig|1}}
{{Naruto195|time=[[User:Naruto195|Naruto195]] 03:33, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=I agree on the idea. I liked voting in the DNC but the anonymous votes were probably all users who voted twice,one on a account,and another off of one. As for Wiki Regular...Alright. And nice Picture TNE!}}
{{TNE|time=05:02, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|remerciement=Thanks ! ^_^}}
{{KKD|time=05:06, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|sora=Okay, now we just need some approval. I think we have way more than enough user support.}}
{{Auror Andrachome|text=What the heck are ya talkin about? There are plenty of stubs, unsatisfying images, section stubs, item stubs on the wiki. There's plenty to edit!}}
{{TNE|time=05:26, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|happytext=Then, we'll consider the Mirage Arena an incentive to edit ! Those who wanna get in must have contributed regularly, and enough ! :D}}
{{KKD|time=05:34, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Okay, this may sound stupid, but do  we need a vote for this like we did with the addition of new admins? I'm pretty sure we'd be unanimous in favor, but I just wanted to ask.<small>or we could just do one for teh lulz. BTW this is my new favourite talk bubble.</small>}}
{{TNE|time=05:54, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm not sure... I think we'll just wait for the rest of the admins' input. Since each talk bubble counts as a vote either for or against.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=06:08, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|skinny=I think this is a nice, fun idea, and you all certainly took a lot of initiative. Looks pretty well planned. }}
{{SilverCrono|time=16:03, July 6, 2010 (UTC)|mad=I'm trying to edit and get something done, but [[User:JTD95|some guy]] keeps reverting the only type of edits I can do. ._. I don't know if I can get to 100 edits... Especially since the only thing I can do is grunt work. ;_;}}

{{Keyblade0|time= July 6, 2010|text=This sounds like a good idea.}}
{{TNE|time=03:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Well, at least you're trying...}}
{{Master_Boye|text=A popularity contest like this seems like it would be pretty awesome. Hope it gets passed ^^}}
{{KKD|time=03:39, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=soo, can we get admin approval? This seems pretty much unanimous in favor of.}}
{{TNE|time=03:41, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=BebopKate is the only admin so far who is for. And we have two mods - LapisScarab and me. I have to ask the rest.}}
I'm not a mod... EDIT: Oh, by the way, anyone who wants to keep track of whether they qualify for voting in this or not (have 100 mainspace edits), go [[Special:Editcount|here]] and type in your user name.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:43, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
:Aw man. Never mind. {{User:Troisnyxetienne/Signature}} 03:47, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{KKD|time=03:48, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=<small>EDIT CONFLICT</small>Hold on. I just thought of something... We may want to do drive forms in battles too, or possibly even Items, such as SSIC vs. Paopu fruit. I suppose drives could be counted as characters or weapons, and items could be without a category, just randomly thrown in and one of the regulars gets taken out. Thoughts?}}
{{LapisScarab|time=03:52, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=There could be a separate category for forms, since a lot of characters have them (Mummy Form, etc). If not, then I'd think of the Drive forms more as weapons/tools, since they're used to improve combat.}}
{{KKD|time=03:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=I'd think we should divide it at Drive forms as weapons, and character forms/outfits (mummy, KHI/KHII Sora etc), as sub-divisions of characters, which can be pitted against each other or other character's forms. Which leaves another question, should characters' forms (Donald's mummy form, for example) be pitted against regular characters (without or out of alternative forms, not including the character's regular form), such as Mummy Donald vs. Larxene? To me, these battles seem kinda trivial, and will probably be avoided.}}
{{Xion4ever|time=15:51, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Sounds good to me. My main concerns are:
*'''Users focus on the Colosseum more than editing on the wiki.''' Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and everything but we don't need fifty users constantly editing the Colosseum page (spamming the RC/getting higher edit counts for the wrong reasons).
*'''Heated debates over trivial matters.''' Of course there will probably be some controversy about who's the best character and what not, however, we don't need users duking it out with each other on their edit summaries/comments on the Colosseum page. There are a lot of users on here who are pretty adamant with their opinions and will gladly "fight" for it (not that being confident in your opinon is bad, but you get the idea).

Overall I'm all for the Colosseum as long as there isn't user bashing sessions or constant spamming of the page.}}
{{KKD|time=16:21, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Okay, thanks Xion. I added that part about fighting into the prototype's rules. I think that first off, if they break any of the rules, their vote/comment gets removed(with a message on their talk page explaining why). If they persist to re-vote, they will be suspended/banned from voting. Sound fair? EDIT 19:41, July 7, 2010 (UTC): I wouldn't think of it as editing for the wrong reasons, it's more of an "incentive" for being active on the wiki.}}
{{HikariKH|text=Gah! A few days away from stalking the Recent Changes and I miss this much!? O.o . Well, awesome idea (although I wish I'd seen this sooner...). My only problem is the must-have-a-certain-number-of-mainspace-edits-thing... If it stays, I'm doomed.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=20:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=Perhaps there should be a nomination process of some kind for matches. I don't know about the Dragon's Neck Colosseum, but Zeldapedia's Temple of Courage makes it so that someone needs to explain how the two characters are connected and why it would make sense for them to be in the match. For example, Demyx VS Larxene - Demyx has commented in Days that he is afraid of Larxene, and she insult him regularly. They have a connection in that sense. That way, we don't get fights like Mummy Donald VS Larxene.}}
{{KKD|time=21:05, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Sounds good, Lapis. However, as stated before, the characters can't be used in the round after the current one, so we may get a load of battles such as Roxas vs. Sora, Namine Vs. Kairi, aforementioned Demyx vs Larxene, and then we get no nominations for the next round because everyone's favourite characters are ineligible. However, they don't have to make sense, some could just be "For teh lulz", such as Knight's Shield vs. Skysplitter, or Moogle vs. Xemnas. I'm not sure how Temple of Courage selects from the nominations, though. Is is user votes, or the group running the project picks?}}
{{LapisScarab|time=21:08, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=The whole community gets into it. [http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Zeldapedia:Temple_of_Courage/Suggestions This] is their suggestions page.}}
{{KKD|time=21:14, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Yeah... that could work! Although, we probably won't put that into effect until the second round, just to get this thing off the ground and running.}}
Er....I just wanted to know what is this?[[User:SilverPinkKitty|SilverPinkKitty]] 21:20, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
{{AxelLivesOn|time=23:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|talk=Why don't you go to the link near the top of the page to find out! :)}}
{{BebopKate|time=23:51, July 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=The 100 edits thing was a suggestion.  If you think it would be fair to have a lower number, especially in light of the slower activity, than that's fine with me.  Or, if someone has a better suggestion to determine community regulars from people spamming votes, please enlighten.

The first one should probably be pre-chosen by the Mirage Arena committee, just so we can focus on improving the comments/voting system.  Once we get that ironed out, the second round could be voter-chosen.  Or we could pick a theme for each Tournament (War of the Worlds!  Heartless Hoedown!  Keyblade Kerfluffle!) and go from there.}}
{{KKD|time=03:58, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Great idea, Kate. But now I can't get the image of a shadow with a cowboy hat out of my head. I think that it may take more than a week to get the nominations off the ground, though. I'd think four or five should be more appropriate. EDIT 15:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC): Ohh, you meant round, not week. Yeah, that would make sense.}}

{{R&D|time=16:48, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ok...back from my trip. I see this is getting productive. THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT!! 
But there are some issues.
#Fixed battles aren't fun  at all... The battle should be nominated by users. Like on [[http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Wiki:Dragon's_Neck_Colosseum/Nomination_Page FFwiki]]
#Kate ideas is amazing. It will raise the users motivation to edit. I like it. And the users who are allowed to nominate should have at least 200 edits.
#I thought on some rules for the nomination page. Check my [[User:Redeemer & Destroyer/Laboratory|Lab]] to see.
#TNÉ's logo looks pretty good!
EDIT: KKD idea of no anonymous votes is good. It is now on.}}
{{KKD|time=18:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2= Welcome back. And by the way, the fixed battles are for the first round only, so we can get the competition going. The second round on will be nominated battles.}}
{{R&D|time=18:09, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=Thanks!! Ok, I understand.
The Zeldapedia nomination page is a little weird... I don't get how that works... The Neutral votes are just useless... If you are voting neutral, juts don't vote at all.}}
{{KKD|time=18:34, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Yeah, they Kinda are. I did away with the templates fully though. Here is an example of our own nomination page, which will run like featured media. [[User:KingdomKeyDarkside/MirageArena|Check this out.]] EDIT 22:24, July 8, 2010 (UTC): I really don't think that having an edit requirement is that necessary. It makes more work for us (checking to see if someone is eligible, and if we get lots of votes, it just becomes a pain) and also seems unfair, considering you need no such requirement to vote in featured media. }}
{{LA|Vtext=I see your point KKD. However, as it has been stated somewhere, we can't let this feature become a huge distraction from the mainspace. Likewise, we can't have users join the site just to participate in the Mirage Arena. We're supposed to be here for the wiki, technically. While I see your point that it is just a huge pain to check all of the editcount, I happen to be blessed without a huge sense of laziness, thus why I always talk in complete sentences, and proper grammar... a rare thing around here. That's beside the point. I can handle the editcount thing, if everyone is going to complain about it, because I believe the rule is necessary. Hard work is a necessity when it comes to maintaining order. We also have to keep faith that the users on the wiki will '''assume good faith''', and ''not'' break the rule. So, if we're lucky, we might not have to deal with it at all.}}
{{R&D|Time=23:40, July 8, 2010 (UTC)|text=The editcount thing, I agree with KKD. Considering that the editor is only allowed to vote '''once''' I doubt it will become a huge distraction from mainspace. Keeping track onf the edit account of every user who votes is just going to be a pain to the Crew. We already removed the anonymous vote, if we keep it like that, eventually only staff will be able to vote. (I know, I exaggerated that one)}}
{{LA|Vtext=When they say "once", I think they mean "once a month", not "once forever". Right?

And like I said, '''I can handle it''' ^^'}}

{{R&D|time=00:48, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=We have the big picture complete. It just needs a small adjust. I want that the first battle to be done on this Sunday (UTC). If we can get everything done, I'm asking admins approval to start the page for the first battle.}}
{{KKD|time=01:34, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Okay, sounds good. Just one thing, the edit count should be at maximum, 100, especially considering the amount of activity right now. Once activity picks up, we may raise it a bit. And, Redeemer, what is this "big picture" that you're talking about? Cuz we decided that we're gonna stay in with the forums and use Trois's banner. EDIT01:36, July 9, 2010 (UTC): I'll make it so you have to have 100 edits before you can nominate or vote for matches as well.}}
{{R&D|time=[[User:Redeemer &amp; Destroyer|Redeemer &amp; Destroyer]] 12:35, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=By big picture I mean the whole idea... it just lacks a few details... I'm going to change the picture to TNÉ's. The edit count thing is up. I guess that soon we will be working at full power. We have by now 6 crew members, so we pretty much have enought people to keep track of the editcount and the rules about voting.}}
{{TNE|time=14:19, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|happytext=We can have it up !

<pre>
[22:16] <Bluerfn> Man, did you hear? Someone suggested that they make a Coliseum-like  page
[22:16] <LotsoBearLover> Yep.
[22:16] <Xion4ever> Thoughts, Bluer?
[22:16] <troisnyxetienne> YEAP. :D
[22:16] <troisnyxetienne> Thoughts ?
[22:16] <Bluerfn> Well, I'm okay with that.
[22:16] <troisnyxetienne> Oh and, by any chance, did you check out the cover link I sent you ?
[22:16] <Bluerfn> KHWiki's been solid. 
[22:16] <troisnyxetienne> ^_^ Yays !
</pre>

EDIT 14:29, July 9, 2010 (UTC) : Blue adds that the reason he didn't support the page in previous years is because he needed to get people to edit the mainspace.
}}
{{R&D|time=14:35, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|text=YAY!!! With Blue concent the page will be made. The first battle will start on Sunday and finish on Saturday. Riku vs. Sora.
The page is the following: [[KHWiki:Mirage Arena]]}}
{{KKD|time=16:11, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Let's get this started, people!}}

{{ZACH|mandrake=ok some users do not understand so i will There is one vote for each user and that one vote will be used once every fight week only users with accounts can vote if there is any thing you want to know ping me on the irc or any other user part of this crew.}}
{{KKD|time=19:36, July 9, 2010 (UTC)|roxas2=Okay, Nominations are officially open for Round Two, Week one. I'm gonna start a little early so we can get things moving. Go [[KHWiki:Mirage Arena/Nominations|here]] if you wish to nominate anything.}}
{{R&D|time=02:46, July 10, 2010 (UTC)|text=I thought on the responsibility each member of the crew will have... at least for now.
*Me = Organize the Mirage Arena page and oversee everything there.
*KKD = Organize the Nomination page and oversee everything there.
*LegoAlchemist= keep track on editcount of Mirage Arena votes. 
*Wolf = keep track on editcount of Nomination votes and make sure the Arena userbox gets edited at each fight. 
*OathkeeperKH = Make sure rules are followed on the Nomination. (basically... a moderator of Nomination)
*HikariKH = Make sure rules are followed at the Mirage arena.  (same here)
*Everyone= Organize Joint Struggle. (that's a job for everyone)
Any objection, just leave a message to me on my talk page.}}

{{BebopKate|time=20:34, July 11, 2010 (UTC)|text=Wow, you guys...this looks well-organized and '''super AWESOME'''!  I normally don't vote in stuff because I think at least one admin should maintain neutrality in case of disputes, but this is just for fun.  If you guys run across any issues I can give you a hand with (page locking, troll-removing, etc.) please let me know.}}
{{R&D|time=20:45, July 11, 2010 (UTC)|happy='''THANK YOU!!''' We did our best to make sure everything went well. And thanks for being willing to help <small>''(a few admins aren't)''</small>. Of vourse,  I hope your help won't be necessary.}}
{{R&D|time=23:50, July 18, 2010 (UTC)|dark=In response to the [[Forum:Bye-Bye, Mirage Arena|Bye-Bye, Mirage Arena]] forum and the opinions presented in it the Mirage Arena shall be put on hold. The constant complain about the flaws on the rules and the needs of improviment will be considered. The MA will return once the rules have been discussed and improved and everything be fixed and arranged. I'll leave another message once everything is done.}}